We have to pay our time for cheaters?? I can’t wait to get rewards.. i want it so badly.. ban cheaters for a month atleast for ruining other players around the globe’s rewards and time. Why do we have wait coz the cheaters cheated??
If they did that they’d lose a lot of money. Chances are a lot cheaters acquire units based on bots or cheap odens. To ban them would make them stop playing which in turn makes kabam less money.
If Kabam refuses to ban high level accounts for cheating becuase it might cost them money....they'll loose any confidence of integrity in the game. Period. You can't run any competitive game mode like that.
Well, there are plenty of examples of cheaters, both in BG and AW, still active in this game... there are alliances where members run mods, among the top 100... and they are still active… so I don't think there's a grey, bearded wizard standing and saying "You shall not pass" at the outer limit of what's legal...and they don't fall into a deep black hole they can't crawl out of either...🧙🏻♂️
Well, there are plenty of examples of cheaters, both in BG and AW, still active in this game... there are alliances where members run mods, among the top 100... and they are still active… so I don't think there's a grey, bearded wizard standing and saying "You shall not pass" at the outer limit of what's legal...and they don't fall into a deep black hole they can't crawl out of either...🧙🏻♂️
That's why I couldn't care about the fact that kabam is delaying rewards to filter cheaters, they couldn't do that in the past and I don't think much will change now, I hope I'm wrong though
"Hey everyone, Got word back from the game team. At this point in their investigation the team has decided that no action can be taken to issue these rewards; the analysis of data came back inconclusive. They will, instead, turn their attention to trying to ensure this issue does not reappear in future."
Because so many of the whales have big budgets and fat thumbs. A fat roster isn’t an indication of skill. There are big whales with skills - the likes of 4Loki, NewN. I only played 2-3 TCN members through the whole season but a gazillion other masterful+ players because they’re sat there with their butler’s phone match making their alts.
Because so many of the whales have big budgets and fat thumbs. A fat roster isn’t an indication of skill. There are big whales with skills - the likes of 4Loki, NewN. I only played 2-3 TCN members through the whole season but a gazillion other masterful+ players because they’re sat there with their butler’s phone match making their alts.
The leaderboard won't change like last time because they're legally not able to show who gets banned or anything.
This guy acting like Kabam would catch a libel lawsuit for showing us igns of folks who get banned for cheating.
You must make a killing as a defense lawyer 😂😂😂😂
If Kabam's Lawyers say they're prohibited from sharing that information, they're not going to contradict that, no matter how entitled to the information people feel. It's not a question of want. It's a question of not going to happen.
What you call "entitled" is what normal people call "accountability" or "transparency".
Transparency doesn't entail breaking the law to reveal information.
"Law"
Please detail said "laws" that apply to IGNs on a mobile app. Please detail what injury would caused to someone by an IGN being on a leaderboard and then removed.
Me thinks you're not a legal scholar.
Aight, well then I’ll weigh in as a legal scholar.
Your original statement was to the effect of disbelief that Kabam would be sued for defamation if they made public a list of in-game name of accounts banned for modding. You are half right. It is fairly well settled law (in most nations) that the truth is a defense to any defamation claim (this is suuuuper simplified for the purposes of this discussion, there’s still a lot of nuance here), and assuming Kabam knows for sure that the player is modding and can prove it, then they would win such a lawsuit.
But what you’re forgetting is nobody wants to deal with a lawsuit. Sure, Kabam would win if it got to that point, but it’s far more likely that they’d reach an out of court settlement where they end up shelling out some amount of money less than they would’ve paid in attorney’s fees for having to handle the lawsuit.
It’s not a question of legal or illegal, it’s a question of “could this action result in some frivolous or bad faith lawsuit (or even a legitimate one if we messed up the ban) that we don’t want to deal with.” Kabam’s legal department says yes, it could result in a lawsuit, so we’re not gonna do that.
From what I can tell, it’s fairly standard practice in the gaming industry not to name players who are having action taken against them, possibly for this reason. I don’t know if this is why Kabam chooses not to publish names, but it does make some sense. Just because something is legal, does not mean it is without consequence or cost.
Yeah many of these posts could have been avoided if they had announced the rewards would be several days delayed in paying out after the event ended during the season 2 announcement notes. A lot people assumed it would take a couple hours like with AW and AQ. It's understandable that they're trying to make it as fair as possible for everyone and getting out the cheaters, but the heads up on this right from the start would have been ideal
"Hey everyone, Got word back from the game team. At this point in their investigation the team has decided that no action can be taken to issue these rewards; the analysis of data came back inconclusive. They will, instead, turn their attention to trying to ensure this issue does not reappear in future."
IYKYK 😂
Exactly lol. Some of us didnt even get season 1 rewards and everyone here talking about season 2 rewards. Thats a lot of faith
For Christ sake Kabam hurry up with these rewards, I want to make personnel changes to the alliance but everything is road blocked and handcuffed for these battleground rewards. People dare not leave their current alliances, and we don’t want to kick people until they get their rewards. Yesterday and today would of been ideal to make changes, AQ break and the midweek war break and now we are still waiting and placement phase starts shortly, so that’s another 2 days at least before we can make changes. Get your act together, something seriously needs to be done in the future about this
The leaderboard won't change like last time because they're legally not able to show who gets banned or anything.
This guy acting like Kabam would catch a libel lawsuit for showing us igns of folks who get banned for cheating.
You must make a killing as a defense lawyer 😂😂😂😂
If Kabam's Lawyers say they're prohibited from sharing that information, they're not going to contradict that, no matter how entitled to the information people feel. It's not a question of want. It's a question of not going to happen.
What you call "entitled" is what normal people call "accountability" or "transparency".
Transparency doesn't entail breaking the law to reveal information.
"Law"
Please detail said "laws" that apply to IGNs on a mobile app. Please detail what injury would caused to someone by an IGN being on a leaderboard and then removed.
Me thinks you're not a legal scholar.
Aight, well then I’ll weigh in as a legal scholar.
Your original statement was to the effect of disbelief that Kabam would be sued for defamation if they made public a list of in-game name of accounts banned for modding. You are half right. It is fairly well settled law (in most nations) that the truth is a defense to any defamation claim (this is suuuuper simplified for the purposes of this discussion, there’s still a lot of nuance here), and assuming Kabam knows for sure that the player is modding and can prove it, then they would win such a lawsuit.
But what you’re forgetting is nobody wants to deal with a lawsuit. Sure, Kabam would win if it got to that point, but it’s far more likely that they’d reach an out of court settlement where they end up shelling out some amount of money less than they would’ve paid in attorney’s fees for having to handle the lawsuit.
It’s not a question of legal or illegal, it’s a question of “could this action result in some frivolous or bad faith lawsuit (or even a legitimate one if we messed up the ban) that we don’t want to deal with.” Kabam’s legal department says yes, it could result in a lawsuit, so we’re not gonna do that.
From what I can tell, it’s fairly standard practice in the gaming industry not to name players who are having action taken against them, possibly for this reason. I don’t know if this is why Kabam chooses not to publish names, but it does make some sense. Just because something is legal, does not mean it is without consequence or cost.
Nobody is asking for the names/list of banned players, just an updated leaderboard like they do in AW after they clear out the cheaters. There is no harm in that, but it's not going to happen.
The leaderboard won't change like last time because they're legally not able to show who gets banned or anything.
This guy acting like Kabam would catch a libel lawsuit for showing us igns of folks who get banned for cheating.
You must make a killing as a defense lawyer 😂😂😂😂
If Kabam's Lawyers say they're prohibited from sharing that information, they're not going to contradict that, no matter how entitled to the information people feel. It's not a question of want. It's a question of not going to happen.
What you call "entitled" is what normal people call "accountability" or "transparency".
Transparency doesn't entail breaking the law to reveal information.
"Law"
Please detail said "laws" that apply to IGNs on a mobile app. Please detail what injury would caused to someone by an IGN being on a leaderboard and then removed.
Me thinks you're not a legal scholar.
Aight, well then I’ll weigh in as a legal scholar.
Your original statement was to the effect of disbelief that Kabam would be sued for defamation if they made public a list of in-game name of accounts banned for modding. You are half right. It is fairly well settled law (in most nations) that the truth is a defense to any defamation claim (this is suuuuper simplified for the purposes of this discussion, there’s still a lot of nuance here), and assuming Kabam knows for sure that the player is modding and can prove it, then they would win such a lawsuit.
But what you’re forgetting is nobody wants to deal with a lawsuit. Sure, Kabam would win if it got to that point, but it’s far more likely that they’d reach an out of court settlement where they end up shelling out some amount of money less than they would’ve paid in attorney’s fees for having to handle the lawsuit.
It’s not a question of legal or illegal, it’s a question of “could this action result in some frivolous or bad faith lawsuit (or even a legitimate one if we messed up the ban) that we don’t want to deal with.” Kabam’s legal department says yes, it could result in a lawsuit, so we’re not gonna do that.
From what I can tell, it’s fairly standard practice in the gaming industry not to name players who are having action taken against them, possibly for this reason. I don’t know if this is why Kabam chooses not to publish names, but it does make some sense. Just because something is legal, does not mean it is without consequence or cost.
Nobody is asking for the names/list of banned players, just an updated leaderboard like they do in AW after they clear out the cheaters. There is no harm in that, but it's not going to happen.
I mean, at least one person is. And it’s the person I was responding to.
I tend to agree that a final leaderboard is probably safe and fine, and honestly I think last time they said it was a technical problem that resulted in the final leaderboard not being made public in game. But I can see a reason why a company may decide it’s more trouble than it’s worth.
The leaderboard won't change like last time because they're legally not able to show who gets banned or anything.
This guy acting like Kabam would catch a libel lawsuit for showing us igns of folks who get banned for cheating.
You must make a killing as a defense lawyer 😂😂😂😂
If Kabam's Lawyers say they're prohibited from sharing that information, they're not going to contradict that, no matter how entitled to the information people feel. It's not a question of want. It's a question of not going to happen.
What you call "entitled" is what normal people call "accountability" or "transparency".
Transparency doesn't entail breaking the law to reveal information.
"Law"
Please detail said "laws" that apply to IGNs on a mobile app. Please detail what injury would caused to someone by an IGN being on a leaderboard and then removed.
Me thinks you're not a legal scholar.
Aight, well then I’ll weigh in as a legal scholar.
Your original statement was to the effect of disbelief that Kabam would be sued for defamation if they made public a list of in-game name of accounts banned for modding. You are half right. It is fairly well settled law (in most nations) that the truth is a defense to any defamation claim (this is suuuuper simplified for the purposes of this discussion, there’s still a lot of nuance here), and assuming Kabam knows for sure that the player is modding and can prove it, then they would win such a lawsuit.
But what you’re forgetting is nobody wants to deal with a lawsuit. Sure, Kabam would win if it got to that point, but it’s far more likely that they’d reach an out of court settlement where they end up shelling out some amount of money less than they would’ve paid in attorney’s fees for having to handle the lawsuit.
It’s not a question of legal or illegal, it’s a question of “could this action result in some frivolous or bad faith lawsuit (or even a legitimate one if we messed up the ban) that we don’t want to deal with.” Kabam’s legal department says yes, it could result in a lawsuit, so we’re not gonna do that.
From what I can tell, it’s fairly standard practice in the gaming industry not to name players who are having action taken against them, possibly for this reason. I don’t know if this is why Kabam chooses not to publish names, but it does make some sense. Just because something is legal, does not mean it is without consequence or cost.
This summarizes the legal situation correctly, but I'm going to amplify this just a tad. The problem is not whether it is legal or not to disclose this information, and the problem is not whether Kabam's legal counsel wants to take these situations on either. The problem is Kabam's legal counsel has performed the legal analysis you've outlined above and decided for whatever reasons they chose to make the decision to set policy to not disclose this information.
This means if a Kabam employee decided to reveal this information to us, they would not necessarily be violating the law, they would instead be violating a directive from corporate legal counsel. This will get you fired. Not for breaking the law, but for insubordination, violation of corporate policy, and failing to fulfill the responsibilities of their employment. And they would be taking the further risk that this act would hang around their necks like an albatross and follow them to any potential future employer.
Years ago I made the argument to Kabam that it was perfectly legal to disclose this type of information. And the argument went much further than the armchair legal scholars on the forums typically take it, delving into the areas of disclosure and privacy policy. What I was ultimately told was words to the effect that they will take their legal counsel's opinion on the matter over mine. And I had no response to that, because they are right to do so. When your lawyer says one thing and some schmuck on the internet says something else, your lawyer should have the last word and in this case they do, and there's nothing I or anyone else on the forums could possibly say that would or should matter.
Kabam's operations personnel must follow the directives of their managers, their supervisors, their corporate officers, and their corporate legal counsel. It doesn't matter if they are right or wrong, if their legal opinions are valid or invalid. They are the ones in charge. And the people in charge don't answer to us.
The leaderboard won't change like last time because they're legally not able to show who gets banned or anything.
This guy acting like Kabam would catch a libel lawsuit for showing us igns of folks who get banned for cheating.
You must make a killing as a defense lawyer 😂😂😂😂
If Kabam's Lawyers say they're prohibited from sharing that information, they're not going to contradict that, no matter how entitled to the information people feel. It's not a question of want. It's a question of not going to happen.
What you call "entitled" is what normal people call "accountability" or "transparency".
Transparency doesn't entail breaking the law to reveal information.
"Law"
Please detail said "laws" that apply to IGNs on a mobile app. Please detail what injury would caused to someone by an IGN being on a leaderboard and then removed.
Me thinks you're not a legal scholar.
Aight, well then I’ll weigh in as a legal scholar.
Your original statement was to the effect of disbelief that Kabam would be sued for defamation if they made public a list of in-game name of accounts banned for modding. You are half right. It is fairly well settled law (in most nations) that the truth is a defense to any defamation claim (this is suuuuper simplified for the purposes of this discussion, there’s still a lot of nuance here), and assuming Kabam knows for sure that the player is modding and can prove it, then they would win such a lawsuit.
But what you’re forgetting is nobody wants to deal with a lawsuit. Sure, Kabam would win if it got to that point, but it’s far more likely that they’d reach an out of court settlement where they end up shelling out some amount of money less than they would’ve paid in attorney’s fees for having to handle the lawsuit.
It’s not a question of legal or illegal, it’s a question of “could this action result in some frivolous or bad faith lawsuit (or even a legitimate one if we messed up the ban) that we don’t want to deal with.” Kabam’s legal department says yes, it could result in a lawsuit, so we’re not gonna do that.
From what I can tell, it’s fairly standard practice in the gaming industry not to name players who are having action taken against them, possibly for this reason. I don’t know if this is why Kabam chooses not to publish names, but it does make some sense. Just because something is legal, does not mean it is without consequence or cost.
When your lawyer says one thing and some schmuck on the internet says something else, your lawyer should have the last word
Can I please get this framed and maybe have you yell it through a megaphone at my clients
The leaderboard won't change like last time because they're legally not able to show who gets banned or anything.
This guy acting like Kabam would catch a libel lawsuit for showing us igns of folks who get banned for cheating.
You must make a killing as a defense lawyer 😂😂😂😂
If Kabam's Lawyers say they're prohibited from sharing that information, they're not going to contradict that, no matter how entitled to the information people feel. It's not a question of want. It's a question of not going to happen.
What you call "entitled" is what normal people call "accountability" or "transparency".
Transparency doesn't entail breaking the law to reveal information.
"Law"
Please detail said "laws" that apply to IGNs on a mobile app. Please detail what injury would caused to someone by an IGN being on a leaderboard and then removed.
Me thinks you're not a legal scholar.
Aight, well then I’ll weigh in as a legal scholar.
Your original statement was to the effect of disbelief that Kabam would be sued for defamation if they made public a list of in-game name of accounts banned for modding. You are half right. It is fairly well settled law (in most nations) that the truth is a defense to any defamation claim (this is suuuuper simplified for the purposes of this discussion, there’s still a lot of nuance here), and assuming Kabam knows for sure that the player is modding and can prove it, then they would win such a lawsuit.
But what you’re forgetting is nobody wants to deal with a lawsuit. Sure, Kabam would win if it got to that point, but it’s far more likely that they’d reach an out of court settlement where they end up shelling out some amount of money less than they would’ve paid in attorney’s fees for having to handle the lawsuit.
It’s not a question of legal or illegal, it’s a question of “could this action result in some frivolous or bad faith lawsuit (or even a legitimate one if we messed up the ban) that we don’t want to deal with.” Kabam’s legal department says yes, it could result in a lawsuit, so we’re not gonna do that.
From what I can tell, it’s fairly standard practice in the gaming industry not to name players who are having action taken against them, possibly for this reason. I don’t know if this is why Kabam chooses not to publish names, but it does make some sense. Just because something is legal, does not mean it is without consequence or cost.
When your lawyer says one thing and some schmuck on the internet says something else, your lawyer should have the last word
Can I please get this framed and maybe have you yell it through a megaphone at my clients
I suspect Physicians feel the same way with Google MD.
This summarizes the legal situation correctly, but I'm going to amplify this just a tad. The problem is not whether it is legal or not to disclose this information, and the problem is not whether Kabam's legal counsel wants to take these situations on either. The problem is Kabam's legal counsel has performed the legal analysis you've outlined above and decided for whatever reasons they chose to make the decision to set policy to not disclose this information.
This means if a Kabam employee decided to reveal this information to us, they would not necessarily be violating the law, they would instead be violating a directive from corporate legal counsel. This will get you fired. Not for breaking the law, but for insubordination, violation of corporate policy, and failing to fulfill the responsibilities of their employment. And they would be taking the further risk that this act would hang around their necks like an albatross and follow them to any potential future employer.
Years ago I made the argument to Kabam that it was perfectly legal to disclose this type of information. And the argument went much further than the armchair legal scholars on the forums typically take it, delving into the areas of disclosure and privacy policy. What I was ultimately told was words to the effect that they will take their legal counsel's opinion on the matter over mine. And I had no response to that, because they are right to do so. When your lawyer says one thing and some schmuck on the internet says something else, your lawyer should have the last word and in this case they do, and there's nothing I or anyone else on the forums could possibly say that would or should matter.
Kabam's operations personnel must follow the directives of their managers, their supervisors, their corporate officers, and their corporate legal counsel. It doesn't matter if they are right or wrong, if their legal opinions are valid or invalid. They are the ones in charge. And the people in charge don't answer to us.
Both you and the poster you're replying to are operating under an assumption that this was actually run through corporate legal and not simply a reply given by a mod who didn't actually present said concern to corporate legal. As someone who works in corporate legal, I can advise that this is a very big assumption to make.
By this same logic one could argue that they would encounter the same issue by posting in-season AW rankings because, again, they are not final and are subject to change. If an alliance is docked due to the actions of members who are cheating, the entire community can see which alliance was docked from the last leaderboard before the final one is posted. The exposure for this would likely be significantly larger when you're looking at 30 members in an alliance who could potentially get marked with a scarlet letter.
Again, in game names are not personal data. If someone chooses to identify themselves by their in game name then they make a conscious choice to be identified. Otherwise an IGN is completely unidentifiable unless either you post your IGN online in public places (such as on the forums here)or on social media. Kabam legal would have no responsibility for someone choosing to self-identity and it would be a damn near impossible legal threshold to hit for them to be proven liable for damages in such a case.
Also, last I checked, a simple disclaimer that "results are subject to change" would legally absolve them of any real legal responsibility for any changes on the leaderboards occurring.
And I'm sure I'm inevitably going to get a strike for this comment because, you know, something something "not constructive" 🤷🏻♂️
Have to make sure they don't accidentally ban any whales too, gotta filter those out manually.
Would be interesting to see if they show leaderboards this time after bans.
Why would a "whale" need to cheat? What kind of stupid comment is that?
The leaderboard won't change like last time because they're legally not able to show who gets banned or anything.
I think somone from TCN got banned, account of 6m So yeah, "whale may cheat"
Not surprised, a lot of accounts high up on the leaderboard were abusing the matchmaking system to match one of their other accounts that's modded to keep winning matches. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
The leaderboard won't change like last time because they're legally not able to show who gets banned or anything.
This guy acting like Kabam would catch a libel lawsuit for showing us igns of folks who get banned for cheating.
You must make a killing as a defense lawyer 😂😂😂😂
Look at you coming out of the shadows trying to do something but fall flat again because you don't know what you're talking about. Stay salty my friend.
The leaderboard won't change like last time because they're legally not able to show who gets banned or anything.
This guy acting like Kabam would catch a libel lawsuit for showing us igns of folks who get banned for cheating.
You must make a killing as a defense lawyer 😂😂😂😂
Look at you coming out of the shadows trying to do something but fall flat again because you don't know what you're talking about. Stay salty my friend.
Comments
Got word back from the game team. At this point in their investigation the team has decided that no action can be taken to issue these rewards; the analysis of data came back inconclusive. They will, instead, turn their attention to trying to ensure this issue does not reappear in future."
IYKYK 😂
Same told my ally members who either in celestial/myst
Your original statement was to the effect of disbelief that Kabam would be sued for defamation if they made public a list of in-game name of accounts banned for modding. You are half right. It is fairly well settled law (in most nations) that the truth is a defense to any defamation claim (this is suuuuper simplified for the purposes of this discussion, there’s still a lot of nuance here), and assuming Kabam knows for sure that the player is modding and can prove it, then they would win such a lawsuit.
But what you’re forgetting is nobody wants to deal with a lawsuit. Sure, Kabam would win if it got to that point, but it’s far more likely that they’d reach an out of court settlement where they end up shelling out some amount of money less than they would’ve paid in attorney’s fees for having to handle the lawsuit.
It’s not a question of legal or illegal, it’s a question of “could this action result in some frivolous or bad faith lawsuit (or even a legitimate one if we messed up the ban) that we don’t want to deal with.” Kabam’s legal department says yes, it could result in a lawsuit, so we’re not gonna do that.
From what I can tell, it’s fairly standard practice in the gaming industry not to name players who are having action taken against them, possibly for this reason. I don’t know if this is why Kabam chooses not to publish names, but it does make some sense. Just because something is legal, does not mean it is without consequence or cost.
It's understandable that they're trying to make it as fair as possible for everyone and getting out the cheaters, but the heads up on this right from the start would have been ideal
I mean, at least one person is. And it’s the person I was responding to.
I tend to agree that a final leaderboard is probably safe and fine, and honestly I think last time they said it was a technical problem that resulted in the final leaderboard not being made public in game. But I can see a reason why a company may decide it’s more trouble than it’s worth.
This means if a Kabam employee decided to reveal this information to us, they would not necessarily be violating the law, they would instead be violating a directive from corporate legal counsel. This will get you fired. Not for breaking the law, but for insubordination, violation of corporate policy, and failing to fulfill the responsibilities of their employment. And they would be taking the further risk that this act would hang around their necks like an albatross and follow them to any potential future employer.
Years ago I made the argument to Kabam that it was perfectly legal to disclose this type of information. And the argument went much further than the armchair legal scholars on the forums typically take it, delving into the areas of disclosure and privacy policy. What I was ultimately told was words to the effect that they will take their legal counsel's opinion on the matter over mine. And I had no response to that, because they are right to do so. When your lawyer says one thing and some schmuck on the internet says something else, your lawyer should have the last word and in this case they do, and there's nothing I or anyone else on the forums could possibly say that would or should matter.
Kabam's operations personnel must follow the directives of their managers, their supervisors, their corporate officers, and their corporate legal counsel. It doesn't matter if they are right or wrong, if their legal opinions are valid or invalid. They are the ones in charge. And the people in charge don't answer to us.
What's that?
By this same logic one could argue that they would encounter the same issue by posting in-season AW rankings because, again, they are not final and are subject to change. If an alliance is docked due to the actions of members who are cheating, the entire community can see which alliance was docked from the last leaderboard before the final one is posted. The exposure for this would likely be significantly larger when you're looking at 30 members in an alliance who could potentially get marked with a scarlet letter.
Again, in game names are not personal data. If someone chooses to identify themselves by their in game name then they make a conscious choice to be identified. Otherwise an IGN is completely unidentifiable unless either you post your IGN online in public places (such as on the forums here)or on social media. Kabam legal would have no responsibility for someone choosing to self-identity and it would be a damn near impossible legal threshold to hit for them to be proven liable for damages in such a case.
Also, last I checked, a simple disclaimer that "results are subject to change" would legally absolve them of any real legal responsibility for any changes on the leaderboards occurring.
And I'm sure I'm inevitably going to get a strike for this comment because, you know, something something "not constructive" 🤷🏻♂️
I'm guessing somewhere between the arena refresh today and tomorrow, before they take the weekend off.
Over the weekend sounds unlikely, based on previous experiences.
Is there anyway we can get an update on rewards please and thank yous from the respectful mcoc community.