This isn't the same as Mole Man as it's not something many knew of.
Just because not many knew about it means that it isn't the same thing? How deluded are you lol
Yes actually. The reaosn kabam gave rdt for moleman is because a lot of players knew that particular utility not as a bug but a feature. And ranked up too. This was evident by the backlash and response when it was fixed.
But in dragonmans case, you can see how much disagrees OP is getting. In the moleman thread you would get disagrees even if you explained the actual mechanic. So yes it's different.
This is Kabam Jax’s direct wording on when mole man was issued rdt
“ Hello Summoners.
With v36.0, we made changes to Mole Man to bring his game play in line with his champion description. We were aware of the community sentiment around this choice and assured you we would continue conversations behind the scenes.
We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.
As a result, we have decided to grant rankdown tickets to all players with a 5- or 6-star Mole Man. This is an effort to give our summoners the choice to handle the situation how they please.
These tickets will be available in the next week or two and will have an expiry date attached to them. They will be accessible through your in-game mail.”
They have again “… failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug” and is thus a nerf, by Kabam’s own words. There needs to be rank down tickets because this is a direct nerf to what dragon man is capable of.
This is Kabam Jax’s direct wording on when mole man was issued rdt
“ Hello Summoners.
With v36.0, we made changes to Mole Man to bring his game play in line with his champion description. We were aware of the community sentiment around this choice and assured you we would continue conversations behind the scenes.
We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.
As a result, we have decided to grant rankdown tickets to all players with a 5- or 6-star Mole Man. This is an effort to give our summoners the choice to handle the situation how they please.
These tickets will be available in the next week or two and will have an expiry date attached to them. They will be accessible through your in-game mail.”
They have again “… failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug” and is thus a nerf, by Kabam’s own words. There needs to be rank down tickets because this is a direct nerf to what dragon man is capable of.
HE IS NOT CAPABLE OF REGENING FROM DEXTERITY.
Nothing in DM's kit says he regents from dexterity. Nothing. Mole Man's ability description was at least ambiguous enough for people to think one way or another. Kabam also knew about the bug long before the fix. A very, very, very small handful of people ranked up DM because of this VERY CLEAR BUG.
Stop saying this is like Mole Man because it's not.
This is mole man’s original wording before he was buffed
“ While Frenzy is not active and Mole Man is below 5 Monster Mass, Mole Man’s heightened senses allow him to predict his opponent’s movements granting him True Accuracy, ignoring all Evade and Auto-Block effects.”
There has literally always been 0 ambiguity, it was always a bug, everyone knew it was a bug.
This is no different from dragon man, who was bugged and had regen. I’m not trying to argue if it is a bug or not because it was a bug, everyone agrees on that. As others have pointed out, kabam have edited posts about this dragon man bug, so it’s clear that they were also aware that it has existed.
This is exactly like mole man, I (and many others) have ranked up dragon man with the expectation that this was in his kit, since it has been for 2 years. Like mole man, we expected his kit to stay the same as it has been for 2 years since, (even when bugged) it was far from game breaking.
Again, in literally kabam Jax’s own words regarding mole man, “ We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.”
This is the exact same situation as mole man, they have removed a long standing bug in a character that resulting in the character objectively becoming worse, resulting in a nerf to that character. The failure of communication is the same (if not worse) than the mole man nerf.
This is mole man’s original wording before he was buffed
“ While Frenzy is not active and Mole Man is below 5 Monster Mass, Mole Man’s heightened senses allow him to predict his opponent’s movements granting him True Accuracy, ignoring all Evade and Auto-Block effects.”
There has literally always been 0 ambiguity, it was always a bug, everyone knew it was a bug.
This is no different from dragon man, who was bugged and had regen. I’m not trying to argue if it is a bug or not because it was a bug, everyone agrees on that. As others have pointed out, kabam have edited posts about this dragon man bug, so it’s clear that they were also aware that it has existed.
This is exactly like mole man, I (and many others) have ranked up dragon man with the expectation that this was in his kit, since it has been for 2 years. Like mole man, we expected his kit to stay the same as it has been for 2 years since, (even when bugged) it was far from game breaking.
Again, in literally kabam Jax’s own words regarding mole man, “ We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.”
This is the exact same situation as mole man, they have removed a long standing bug in a character that resulting in the character objectively becoming worse, resulting in a nerf to that character. The failure of communication is the same (if not worse) than the mole man nerf.
It's not the same situation because the amount of people that were aware of Mole Man's unintended ability was significantly higher than the amount of people aware of Dragon Man's. I didn't know about Dragon Man being able to regen from dexing until it was pointed out earlier this week. I am willing to bet that a great majority of players who ranked up Dragon Man weren't aware of this either, and ranked him up for his actual intended utility. Furthermore, Dragon Man's abilities page has 0 ambiguity. You regen 85% of any HIT damage you take while unstoppable. When you dex you don't take any hit damage because you're not you're not making contact with the opponent.
You knowingly ranked up a bugged champion for a bugged interaction, which can be patched at any moment, and now you feel you are entitled to RDTs due to poor judgment. You are not. People should understand by now that ranking up champions solely because of a bug is not a wise decision
This is mole man’s original wording before he was buffed
“ While Frenzy is not active and Mole Man is below 5 Monster Mass, Mole Man’s heightened senses allow him to predict his opponent’s movements granting him True Accuracy, ignoring all Evade and Auto-Block effects.”
There has literally always been 0 ambiguity, it was always a bug, everyone knew it was a bug.
This is no different from dragon man, who was bugged and had regen. I’m not trying to argue if it is a bug or not because it was a bug, everyone agrees on that. As others have pointed out, kabam have edited posts about this dragon man bug, so it’s clear that they were also aware that it has existed.
This is exactly like mole man, I (and many others) have ranked up dragon man with the expectation that this was in his kit, since it has been for 2 years. Like mole man, we expected his kit to stay the same as it has been for 2 years since, (even when bugged) it was far from game breaking.
Again, in literally kabam Jax’s own words regarding mole man, “ We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.”
This is the exact same situation as mole man, they have removed a long standing bug in a character that resulting in the character objectively becoming worse, resulting in a nerf to that character. The failure of communication is the same (if not worse) than the mole man nerf.
Now do Dragon Man. Find the line of text that would lead you to believe Regen from Dex'ing is something he should be doing.
Now do Dragon Man. Find the line of text that would lead you to believe Regen from Dex'ing is something he should be doing.
Do you not understand what I’m saying? There is no line of text that told me that dragon man would regen from dexing, just as there was no line of text that said mole man would have true accuracy and frenzy at the same time. Neither of them were intended to have those bugged abilities when they were first released. Everyone agrees with this, this is not an argument, so please stop trying to argue it. Both were known bugs by both the community and kabam (albeit dragon man’s bug was less known).
The point I was making by quoting mole man’s abilities was to show that it was extremely clear that true strike and frenzy was always a bug, just as dragon man’s regen has always been a bug.
If these bugs were acknowledged or patched sooner after release (such as peni being able to take less damage from sp3) no one would care. The problem arises from the fact that mole man and dragon man’s bugs were present for over 2 years. I will again quote kabam jax as he quite literally admits fault for kabam as these bugs essentially became apart of their characters respective kits due to the length of time and lack of communication surround the bug
“ We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.”
It's not the same situation because the amount of people that were aware of Mole Man's unintended ability was significantly higher than the amount of people aware of Dragon Man's. I didn't know about Dragon Man being able to regen from dexing until it was pointed out earlier this week. I am willing to bet that a great majority of players who ranked up Dragon Man weren't aware of this either, and ranked him up for his actual intended utility. Furthermore, Dragon Man's abilities page has 0 ambiguity. You regen 85% of any HIT damage you take while unstoppable. When you dex you don't take any hit damage because you're not you're not making contact with the opponent.
You knowingly ranked up a bugged champion for a bugged interaction, which can be patched at any moment, and now you feel you are entitled to RDTs due to poor judgment. You are not. People should understand by now that ranking up champions solely because of a bug is not a wise decision
As I’ve stated before in my comparison to mole man, both dragon man and mole man had zero ambiguity is their wording, both examples were clear bugs and this situation is exactly the same
Although this ability was definitely less known than the mole man one, it was certainly known by many dragon man players along with kabam (as can be seen by op’s linked forum posts)
Also, there is a set precedent of giving out RDTs after long standing bugs being removed nerfing a character. This was the case for she hulk and mole man, and should be the case for dragon man if they don’t revert the change.
The only other major bug like this was for Kamala khan’s ability to nullify any buff rather than just the ones in her description. Since it wasn’t game breaking they simply changed her description
So yes, knowingly ranked up a champion that has been bugged for 2 years is not at all poor judgment. Kabam has shown that when nerfing champions (thru long standing bug fixes or directly) they will issue RDTs, so I do believe that they need to do the same for dragon man as the situation is the exact same.
Also, it genuinely isn’t too unreasonable to conclude that dragon man would regen if he were to dex an attack. I believe this as many champions function similarly. Ghost gains power when dexing an attack while phased, evades effects happen even when the champ dexed (ultron’s evade function triggers if he dexes while his evade is active) and many more. There are plenty more examples of this occurring in game
Now do Dragon Man. Find the line of text that would lead you to believe Regen from Dex'ing is something he should be doing.
Do you not understand what I’m saying? There is no line of text that told me that dragon man would regen from dexing, just as there was no line of text that said mole man would have true accuracy and frenzy at the same time. Neither of them were intended to have those bugged abilities when they were first released. Everyone agrees with this, this is not an argument, so please stop trying to argue it. Both were known bugs by both the community and kabam (albeit dragon man’s bug was less known).
The point I was making by quoting mole man’s abilities was to show that it was extremely clear that true strike and frenzy was always a bug, just as dragon man’s regen has always been a bug.
If these bugs were acknowledged or patched sooner after release (such as peni being able to take less damage from sp3) no one would care. The problem arises from the fact that mole man and dragon man’s bugs were present for over 2 years. I will again quote kabam jax as he quite literally admits fault for kabam as these bugs essentially became apart of their characters respective kits due to the length of time and lack of communication surround the bug
“ We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.”
Again, Jax's statement for Mole Man does not apply here. Dragon Man is an obvious bug that a handful of people took advantage of. Mole Man had thousands a d thousands of people who took advantage of the bug. Kabam actively tried to fix it and did. DM was never added to the bug list which means it was never on the slate to be fixed which again means, something else they did fixed it.
We should be er have received RDTs for Mole Man and we sure as hell don't need RDTs for DM. If you rely on bugs to get you through content, then that's your problem.
The mere fact you want comp for ranking up a buffed champion is just disgusting.
Again, Jax's statement for Mole Man does not apply here. Dragon Man is an obvious bug that a handful of people took advantage of. Mole Man had thousands a d thousands of people who took advantage of the bug. Kabam actively tried to fix it and did. DM was never added to the bug list which means it was never on the slate to be fixed which again means, something else they did fixed it.
We should be er have received RDTs for Mole Man and we sure as hell don't need RDTs for DM. If you rely on bugs to get you through content, then that's your problem.
The mere fact you want comp for ranking up a buffed champion is just disgusting.
I'm going to slowly go through Jax's statement to show you why it absolutely applies to this situation.
“ We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in:" - Jax starting the message by simply stating that it is a big deal.
" ...we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug" - As with mole man, this bug has been present for a very long time and kabam certainly hasn't communicated their intentions to fix this bug.
"...and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.” - Simply stating that when a bug like this has been in the game for long enough and is finally removed, it is a nerf.
Notice how literally no where in the statement is the amount of people who used/knew about the bug? That's because it isn't relevant to Kabam Jax's statement. I want you to point to the spot in the quote where it doesn't apply to dragon man.
Also regarding you blatantly insulting me for asking for RDTs for bugged champions: I did not rank up dragon man solely because of his regen bug, that was simply a nice cherry on top of his already good kit. Removing this did not make him a bad champion (just as mole man's nerf didn't ruin him), but it certainly make them worse. Kabam has nerfed dragonman and made him a worse champion. I ranked up a different champion than what I have now and should be able to choose to put my resources elsewhere now that they hurt his capabilities across the contest.
And I'm not just asking for RDT's, I'd much prefer if Kabam simply gave him his regen back.
It's not the same situation because the amount of people that were aware of Mole Man's unintended ability was significantly higher than the amount of people aware of Dragon Man's. I didn't know about Dragon Man being able to regen from dexing until it was pointed out earlier this week. I am willing to bet that a great majority of players who ranked up Dragon Man weren't aware of this either, and ranked him up for his actual intended utility. Furthermore, Dragon Man's abilities page has 0 ambiguity. You regen 85% of any HIT damage you take while unstoppable. When you dex you don't take any hit damage because you're not you're not making contact with the opponent.
You knowingly ranked up a bugged champion for a bugged interaction, which can be patched at any moment, and now you feel you are entitled to RDTs due to poor judgment. You are not. People should understand by now that ranking up champions solely because of a bug is not a wise decision
As I’ve stated before in my comparison to mole man, both dragon man and mole man had zero ambiguity is their wording, both examples were clear bugs and this situation is exactly the same
Although this ability was definitely less known than the mole man one, it was certainly known by many dragon man players along with kabam (as can be seen by op’s linked forum posts)
Also, there is a set precedent of giving out RDTs after long standing bugs being removed nerfing a character. This was the case for she hulk and mole man, and should be the case for dragon man if they don’t revert the change.
The only other major bug like this was for Kamala khan’s ability to nullify any buff rather than just the ones in her description. Since it wasn’t game breaking they simply changed her description
So yes, knowingly ranked up a champion that has been bugged for 2 years is not at all poor judgment. Kabam has shown that when nerfing champions (thru long standing bug fixes or directly) they will issue RDTs, so I do believe that they need to do the same for dragon man as the situation is the exact same.
Also, it genuinely isn’t too unreasonable to conclude that dragon man would regen if he were to dex an attack. I believe this as many champions function similarly. Ghost gains power when dexing an attack while phased, evades effects happen even when the champ dexed (ultron’s evade function triggers if he dexes while his evade is active) and many more. There are plenty more examples of this occurring in game
Ranking up a bugged champion hoping to take advantage of that bug, knowing full well bugs eventually get fixed is indeed poor judgment. The bug was fixed and now you're here complaining and wanting your resources back as if you didn't know this would eventually happen.
Furthermore, just because there is precedent for Kabam handing out RDTs does not mean they should hand them out to players that ranked up Dragon Man. For She-Hulk, it severely impacted her playstyle and ease of use. For Mole Man, the player outcry was too much (even though content creators warned people about Mole Man being bugged plenty of times). In Dragon Man's case, the bug fix barely impacts his playstyle or his place in the game. As far as I know, DM still excels in his optimal match-ups and can still clear any content you would have previously used him for with ease.
And how is it reasonable to conclude that Dragon Man would regen while dexing when his description clearly states that he only regens from HIT damage? For Ghost: she phases when dashing back, and it is only disabled when blocking or initiating an attack. Phasing has a 100% to miss incoming attacks; dashing back doesn't deactivate phasing so the attack misses and you gain power. Similar thing happens with Ultron's evade. Could Kabam make these interactions a lot more clear? Absolutely. But how can you possibly conclude that Dragon Man will regen while dexing when his abilities clearly state HIT DAMAGE??? You're not making any contact with the enemy while dexing.
And I'm not just asking for RDT's, I'd much prefer if Kabam simply gave him his regen back.
Annnnnnd there it is..
You don't care about the truth. You don't care about the actual details of the kit. You want your exploit back because you made a bad judgment call and need it back otherwise you feel like you've made a grave mistake (that's not really even a mistake, IMHO).
Don't hide behind some pursuit of the truth when the truth is you want something that you were able to benefit off of.
Have none of you read the Kabam Jax quote that I have wrote multiple times? I'll write it again for clarity,
“ We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.”
Kabam Jax's statement agrees with my argument.
This was a nerf. You cannot argue that.
And do you know what Kabam does when they nerf champions?
Have none of you read the Kabam Jax quote that I have wrote multiple times? I'll write it again for clarity,
“ We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.”
Kabam Jax's statement agrees with my argument.
This was a nerf. You cannot argue that.
And do you know what Kabam does when they nerf champions?
Have none of you read the Kabam Jax quote that I have wrote multiple times? I'll write it again for clarity,
“ We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.”
Kabam Jax's statement agrees with my argument.
This was a nerf. You cannot argue that.
And do you know what Kabam does when they nerf champions?
That was with respect to Mole Man who benefitted a lot more from the exploit that Dragon Man does. DM's usability and utility without the exploit has barely changed. Not really a nerf and does not warrant RDTs
Have none of you read the Kabam Jax quote that I have wrote multiple times? I'll write it again for clarity,
“ We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.”
Kabam Jax's statement agrees with my argument.
This was a nerf. You cannot argue that.
And do you know what Kabam does when they nerf champions?
THIS. THIS BUG. Not any bug. This particular bug warranted this response
I keep seeing this fix being referred to as a nerf when I would say it is far from being so. Dragon Man had a bug, the bug got fixed. This keeps getting compared to the Mole Man debacle from earlier this year but they are so different. Mole Man had a bug that was known about, but not touched for a considerable amount of time. This is the first time many players, myself included, have heard about this bug with Dragon Man, and I imagine that the dev team may not have known about it since DM’s release. A real nerf is what happened to Namor a couple years back, this is a bug fix, nothing more, nothing less.
And I'm not just asking for RDT's, I'd much prefer if Kabam simply gave him his regen back.
Annnnnnd there it is..
You don't care about the truth. You don't care about the actual details of the kit. You want your exploit back because you made a bad judgment call and need it back otherwise you feel like you've made a grave mistake (that's not really even a mistake, IMHO).
Don't hide behind some pursuit of the truth when the truth is you want something that you were able to benefit off of.
It is not unreasonable to ask for the champion that I've used for 2 years. Had they made this change a few months after he came out, then I wouldn't care. The problem comes from the fact that they have left this bug/exploit in the game long enough to where it was hard to tell if they would ever remove it. This is the same exact situation as the mole man nerf and I expect the same treatment as what happened then, RDTs. I would prefer reverting the change as it was a cool ability. It was far from broken or overpowered, it made dragon man more fun. It never made him the meta or game breaking, so why should it be removed?
I didn't make a bad judgment call, I will still enjoy using dragon man even after this nerf. I don't even know if I would want to use the RDT if we were to get one. The problem is that they nerfed him. Exploit or not, this change was a nerf.
Have none of you read the Kabam Jax quote that I have wrote multiple times? I'll write it again for clarity,
“ We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.”
Kabam Jax's statement agrees with my argument.
This was a nerf. You cannot argue that.
And do you know what Kabam does when they nerf champions?
We can argue it because it's not a nerf. To use your logic "the weight of this issue" which translates to that Mole Man was used by way more people for this to be a simple issue. Meaning they know how many people ranked up Mole Man just for the bug.
"Essentially became a nerf" is not the same as a straight up nerf of a champion. It became that way because SO MANY people were using the bugged version of Mole Man.
Jax's statement is exclusive to Mole Man and only Mole Man. The spotlight has always been on Mole Man's bug and never on Dragon Man's bug. There's like 7 of you who used this exploit.
We can argue it because it's not a nerf. To use your logic "the weight of this issue" which translates to that Mole Man was used by way more people for this to be a simple issue. Meaning they know how many people ranked up Mole Man just for the bug.
"Essentially became a nerf" is not the same as a straight up nerf of a champion. It became that way because SO MANY people were using the bugged version of Mole Man.
Jax's statement is exclusive to Mole Man and only Mole Man. The spotlight has always been on Mole Man's bug and never on Dragon Man's bug. There's like 7 of you who used this exploit.
Please actually read the quote. "the weight of this issue" is literally pointed out in the same sentence. It had nothing to do with the amount mole man was used. "the weight of this issue" was "...we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug..." This is the case for the mole man bug, and the dragon man bug. They didn't communicate for either. The weight of the issue was simply the lack of communication.
And stop downplaying the number of people who were aware of this bug
There are plenty more, these are just the first few I found solely on the forums, there are plenty more discussions about it elsewhere.
Some of these were even edited by Kabam, so this wasn't a niche bug that no one was aware of, Kabam has known for awhile that this has existed and didn't communicate to the community about it.
We can argue it because it's not a nerf. To use your logic "the weight of this issue" which translates to that Mole Man was used by way more people for this to be a simple issue. Meaning they know how many people ranked up Mole Man just for the bug.
"Essentially became a nerf" is not the same as a straight up nerf of a champion. It became that way because SO MANY people were using the bugged version of Mole Man.
Jax's statement is exclusive to Mole Man and only Mole Man. The spotlight has always been on Mole Man's bug and never on Dragon Man's bug. There's like 7 of you who used this exploit.
Please actually read the quote. "the weight of this issue" is literally pointed out in the same sentence. It had nothing to do with the amount mole man was used. "the weight of this issue" was "...we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug..." This is the case for the mole man bug, and the dragon man bug. They didn't communicate for either. The weight of the issue was simply the lack of communication.
And stop downplaying the number of people who were aware of this bug
There are plenty more, these are just the first few I found solely on the forums, there are plenty more discussions about it elsewhere.
Some of these were even edited by Kabam, so this wasn't a niche bug that no one was aware of, Kabam has known for awhile that this has existed and didn't communicate to the community about it.
If this whole issue was as big as you're making it out to be, it is safe to assume we would have gotten a lot more forum threads about it, and content creators would have done a lot more coverage on it. Once again, this is not a nerf and does not warrant RDTs because Dragon Man's place in the game hasn't been altered at all
We can argue it because it's not a nerf. To use your logic "the weight of this issue" which translates to that Mole Man was used by way more people for this to be a simple issue. Meaning they know how many people ranked up Mole Man just for the bug.
"Essentially became a nerf" is not the same as a straight up nerf of a champion. It became that way because SO MANY people were using the bugged version of Mole Man.
Jax's statement is exclusive to Mole Man and only Mole Man. The spotlight has always been on Mole Man's bug and never on Dragon Man's bug. There's like 7 of you who used this exploit.
Please actually read the quote. "the weight of this issue" is literally pointed out in the same sentence. It had nothing to do with the amount mole man was used. "the weight of this issue" was "...we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug..." This is the case for the mole man bug, and the dragon man bug. They didn't communicate for either. The weight of the issue was simply the lack of communication.
And stop downplaying the number of people who were aware of this bug
There are plenty more, these are just the first few I found solely on the forums, there are plenty more discussions about it elsewhere.
Some of these were even edited by Kabam, so this wasn't a niche bug that no one was aware of, Kabam has known for awhile that this has existed and didn't communicate to the community about it.
You found 4 threads. There are 20x's that for Mole Man. I am not downplaying the number at all. I've already stated what the "edited by Kabam Porthos" means. He/She moved the thread to the bugs section of the forums which is in no means a confirmation by Kabam that the bug was reported to the team. Porthos doesn't have the access the community managers like Jax and Miike have.
I've read the quote. I don't need to re-read it or understand it further. You want to interpert it your way to fit your argument. It doesn't. The weight of the issue is the impact on the community because of the amount of feedback the fix got. There were 100's more people in that thread than the 3 of you arguing this non-sense with Dragon Man. Keep trying though cause looks like OP already gave up.
And I'm not just asking for RDT's, I'd much prefer if Kabam simply gave him his regen back.
Annnnnnd there it is..
You don't care about the truth. You don't care about the actual details of the kit. You want your exploit back because you made a bad judgment call and need it back otherwise you feel like you've made a grave mistake (that's not really even a mistake, IMHO).
Don't hide behind some pursuit of the truth when the truth is you want something that you were able to benefit off of.
It is not unreasonable to ask for the champion that I've used for 2 years. Had they made this change a few months after he came out, then I wouldn't care. The problem comes from the fact that they have left this bug/exploit in the game long enough to where it was hard to tell if they would ever remove it. This is the same exact situation as the mole man nerf and I expect the same treatment as what happened then, RDTs. I would prefer reverting the change as it was a cool ability. It was far from broken or overpowered, it made dragon man more fun. It never made him the meta or game breaking, so why should it be removed?
I didn't make a bad judgment call, I will still enjoy using dragon man even after this nerf. I don't even know if I would want to use the RDT if we were to get one. The problem is that they nerfed him. Exploit or not, this change was a nerf.
You don't get it do you? You are trying to twist this all around some argument that played out of something you knew wasn't right. And then your only way to salvage this argument is to try and turn it around as it's some random conspiracy that affects the community when you yourself openly admitted that it's about getting what benefits you back.
Nobody would accept that as a viable answer. And this isn't some white knight **** that you like to accuse people of when you don't get your way. You did something that you knew was wrong and you're trying to flip it around like you're the guy who woke up and saw Christmas gets canceled.
We can argue it because it's not a nerf. To use your logic "the weight of this issue" which translates to that Mole Man was used by way more people for this to be a simple issue. Meaning they know how many people ranked up Mole Man just for the bug.
"Essentially became a nerf" is not the same as a straight up nerf of a champion. It became that way because SO MANY people were using the bugged version of Mole Man.
Jax's statement is exclusive to Mole Man and only Mole Man. The spotlight has always been on Mole Man's bug and never on Dragon Man's bug. There's like 7 of you who used this exploit.
Please actually read the quote. "the weight of this issue" is literally pointed out in the same sentence. It had nothing to do with the amount mole man was used. "the weight of this issue" was "...we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug..." This is the case for the mole man bug, and the dragon man bug. They didn't communicate for either. The weight of the issue was simply the lack of communication.
And stop downplaying the number of people who were aware of this bug
There are plenty more, these are just the first few I found solely on the forums, there are plenty more discussions about it elsewhere.
Some of these were even edited by Kabam, so this wasn't a niche bug that no one was aware of, Kabam has known for awhile that this has existed and didn't communicate to the community about it.
You found 4 threads. There are 20x's that for Mole Man. I am not downplaying the number at all. I've already stated what the "edited by Kabam Porthos" means. He/She moved the thread to the bugs section of the forums which is in no means a confirmation by Kabam that the bug was reported to the team. Porthos doesn't have the access the community managers like Jax and Miike have.
I've read the quote. I don't need to re-read it or understand it further. You want to interpert it your way to fit your argument. It doesn't. The weight of the issue is the impact on the community because of the amount of feedback the fix got. There were 100's more people in that thread than the 3 of you arguing this non-sense with Dragon Man. Keep trying though cause looks like OP already gave up.
“Looks like OP already gave up” nope, I just have a life outside of this forum, unlike some people. I haven’t checked this thread in about 36 hours and came back to a bunch of notifications.
I will maintain that Kabam owes us rank down tickets. The only difference between this and the Mole Man debacle any of you naysayers are really citing is a difference of scale about who used the bug. It’s a moot point, because any injustice no matter how small deserves to be rectified, not just those that effect the most people.
Some of you cite that Mole Man’s wording was more ambiguous, but someone above already thoroughly debunked that with the description it’s self. They also proved our point with Kabam Jax’s comment.
We’re right and it’s obvious, this is the same sort of situation as Mole Man, or it’s as close as can be. Both bugs that were long time parts of a characters kit stripped away when some people had ranked purely because of that. I’ll be making a new post in the next couple of days to remind the community of this conversation and keep the heat on Kabam.
Comments
But in dragonmans case, you can see how much disagrees OP is getting. In the moleman thread you would get disagrees even if you explained the actual mechanic. So yes it's different.
“ Hello Summoners.
With v36.0, we made changes to Mole Man to bring his game play in line with his champion description. We were aware of the community sentiment around this choice and assured you we would continue conversations behind the scenes.
We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.
As a result, we have decided to grant rankdown tickets to all players with a 5- or 6-star Mole Man. This is an effort to give our summoners the choice to handle the situation how they please.
These tickets will be available in the next week or two and will have an expiry date attached to them. They will be accessible through your in-game mail.”
They have again “… failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug” and is thus a nerf, by Kabam’s own words. There needs to be rank down tickets because this is a direct nerf to what dragon man is capable of.
IS
NOT
CAPABLE
OF
REGENING
FROM
DEXTERITY.
Nothing in DM's kit says he regents from dexterity. Nothing. Mole Man's ability description was at least ambiguous enough for people to think one way or another. Kabam also knew about the bug long before the fix. A very, very, very small handful of people ranked up DM because of this VERY CLEAR BUG.
Stop saying this is like Mole Man because it's not.
“ While Frenzy is not active and Mole Man is below 5 Monster Mass, Mole Man’s heightened senses allow him to predict his opponent’s movements granting him True Accuracy, ignoring all Evade and Auto-Block effects.”
There has literally always been 0 ambiguity, it was always a bug, everyone knew it was a bug.
This is no different from dragon man, who was bugged and had regen. I’m not trying to argue if it is a bug or not because it was a bug, everyone agrees on that. As others have pointed out, kabam have edited posts about this dragon man bug, so it’s clear that they were also aware that it has existed.
This is exactly like mole man, I (and many others) have ranked up dragon man with the expectation that this was in his kit, since it has been for 2 years. Like mole man, we expected his kit to stay the same as it has been for 2 years since, (even when bugged) it was far from game breaking.
Again, in literally kabam Jax’s own words regarding mole man, “ We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.”
This is the exact same situation as mole man, they have removed a long standing bug in a character that resulting in the character objectively becoming worse, resulting in a nerf to that character. The failure of communication is the same (if not worse) than the mole man nerf.
You knowingly ranked up a bugged champion for a bugged interaction, which can be patched at any moment, and now you feel you are entitled to RDTs due to poor judgment. You are not. People should understand by now that ranking up champions solely because of a bug is not a wise decision
The point I was making by quoting mole man’s abilities was to show that it was extremely clear that true strike and frenzy was always a bug, just as dragon man’s regen has always been a bug.
If these bugs were acknowledged or patched sooner after release (such as peni being able to take less damage from sp3) no one would care. The problem arises from the fact that mole man and dragon man’s bugs were present for over 2 years. I will again quote kabam jax as he quite literally admits fault for kabam as these bugs essentially became apart of their characters respective kits due to the length of time and lack of communication surround the bug
“ We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.”
Although this ability was definitely less known than the mole man one, it was certainly known by many dragon man players along with kabam (as can be seen by op’s linked forum posts)
Also, there is a set precedent of giving out RDTs after long standing bugs being removed nerfing a character. This was the case for she hulk and mole man, and should be the case for dragon man if they don’t revert the change.
The only other major bug like this was for Kamala khan’s ability to nullify any buff rather than just the ones in her description. Since it wasn’t game breaking they simply changed her description
So yes, knowingly ranked up a champion that has been bugged for 2 years is not at all poor judgment. Kabam has shown that when nerfing champions (thru long standing bug fixes or directly) they will issue RDTs, so I do believe that they need to do the same for dragon man as the situation is the exact same.
Also, it genuinely isn’t too unreasonable to conclude that dragon man would regen if he were to dex an attack. I believe this as many champions function similarly. Ghost gains power when dexing an attack while phased, evades effects happen even when the champ dexed (ultron’s evade function triggers if he dexes while his evade is active) and many more. There are plenty more examples of this occurring in game
We should be er have received RDTs for Mole Man and we sure as hell don't need RDTs for DM. If you rely on bugs to get you through content, then that's your problem.
The mere fact you want comp for ranking up a buffed champion is just disgusting.
“ We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in:" - Jax starting the message by simply stating that it is a big deal.
" ...we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug" - As with mole man, this bug has been present for a very long time and kabam certainly hasn't communicated their intentions to fix this bug.
"...and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.” - Simply stating that when a bug like this has been in the game for long enough and is finally removed, it is a nerf.
Notice how literally no where in the statement is the amount of people who used/knew about the bug? That's because it isn't relevant to Kabam Jax's statement. I want you to point to the spot in the quote where it doesn't apply to dragon man.
Also regarding you blatantly insulting me for asking for RDTs for bugged champions:
I did not rank up dragon man solely because of his regen bug, that was simply a nice cherry on top of his already good kit. Removing this did not make him a bad champion (just as mole man's nerf didn't ruin him), but it certainly make them worse. Kabam has nerfed dragonman and made him a worse champion. I ranked up a different champion than what I have now and should be able to choose to put my resources elsewhere now that they hurt his capabilities across the contest.
And I'm not just asking for RDT's, I'd much prefer if Kabam simply gave him his regen back.
Furthermore, just because there is precedent for Kabam handing out RDTs does not mean they should hand them out to players that ranked up Dragon Man. For She-Hulk, it severely impacted her playstyle and ease of use. For Mole Man, the player outcry was too much (even though content creators warned people about Mole Man being bugged plenty of times). In Dragon Man's case, the bug fix barely impacts his playstyle or his place in the game. As far as I know, DM still excels in his optimal match-ups and can still clear any content you would have previously used him for with ease.
And how is it reasonable to conclude that Dragon Man would regen while dexing when his description clearly states that he only regens from HIT damage? For Ghost: she phases when dashing back, and it is only disabled when blocking or initiating an attack. Phasing has a 100% to miss incoming attacks; dashing back doesn't deactivate phasing so the attack misses and you gain power. Similar thing happens with Ultron's evade. Could Kabam make these interactions a lot more clear? Absolutely. But how can you possibly conclude that Dragon Man will regen while dexing when his abilities clearly state HIT DAMAGE??? You're not making any contact with the enemy while dexing.
You don't care about the truth.
You don't care about the actual details of the kit.
You want your exploit back because you made a bad judgment call and need it back otherwise you feel like you've made a grave mistake (that's not really even a mistake, IMHO).
Don't hide behind some pursuit of the truth when the truth is you want something that you were able to benefit off of.
“ We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.”
Kabam Jax's statement agrees with my argument.
This was a nerf. You cannot argue that.
And do you know what Kabam does when they nerf champions?
I didn't make a bad judgment call, I will still enjoy using dragon man even after this nerf. I don't even know if I would want to use the RDT if we were to get one. The problem is that they nerfed him. Exploit or not, this change was a nerf.
"Essentially became a nerf" is not the same as a straight up nerf of a champion. It became that way because SO MANY people were using the bugged version of Mole Man.
Jax's statement is exclusive to Mole Man and only Mole Man. The spotlight has always been on Mole Man's bug and never on Dragon Man's bug. There's like 7 of you who used this exploit.
And stop downplaying the number of people who were aware of this bug
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1732882
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/262599/dragon-mans-regen-is-criminally-under-rated
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/289057/why-is-dragon-man-good
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1780865#Comment_1780865
There are plenty more, these are just the first few I found solely on the forums, there are plenty more discussions about it elsewhere.
Some of these were even edited by Kabam, so this wasn't a niche bug that no one was aware of, Kabam has known for awhile that this has existed and didn't communicate to the community about it.
I've read the quote. I don't need to re-read it or understand it further. You want to interpert it your way to fit your argument. It doesn't. The weight of the issue is the impact on the community because of the amount of feedback the fix got. There were 100's more people in that thread than the 3 of you arguing this non-sense with Dragon Man. Keep trying though cause looks like OP already gave up.
Nobody would accept that as a viable answer. And this isn't some white knight **** that you like to accuse people of when you don't get your way. You did something that you knew was wrong and you're trying to flip it around like you're the guy who woke up and saw Christmas gets canceled.
I will maintain that Kabam owes us rank down tickets. The only difference between this and the Mole Man debacle any of you naysayers are really citing is a difference of scale about who used the bug. It’s a moot point, because any injustice no matter how small deserves to be rectified, not just those that effect the most people.
Some of you cite that Mole Man’s wording was more ambiguous, but someone above already thoroughly debunked that with the description it’s self. They also proved our point with Kabam Jax’s comment.
We’re right and it’s obvious, this is the same sort of situation as Mole Man, or it’s as close as can be. Both bugs that were long time parts of a characters kit stripped away when some people had ranked purely because of that. I’ll be making a new post in the next couple of days to remind the community of this conversation and keep the heat on Kabam.