Did the EoP fights change from when they were weekly? No. The only difference is they're all on 2 paths and Thanos is the boss which we've fought before.
I don't care about Abyss or lab. I've done my 1 path in each and that's all I care about.
Not totally true, they were 6* defenders when it was weekly
The Kabam Game Team should take this opportunity to set health pots as percentage based instead of fixed numbers. Level 1,2, and even 3 health pots do nothing for a r2 or higher 6* champ, level 4 aren't even that great on a unit cost per pot basis. Imagine how pathetic they will be for 7* champions expanded health pools. Make them percentage based, it is long over due and should have been done when the game expanded to 5* champions. We're moving to 7* champions now.
In terms of real money, restoring a single champion from 0 to 100% health shouldn't cost between $5-10 USD but it does with the current system.
My one 6*R5 champ has a health pool of roughly 52000. To fully restore his health from 0-100 with units right now from the potion store it would cost:
40 units for 1 level 2 revive for 20800 health 38 units x 3 level 5 health pots for another 30000 health bringing the total to 50800 14 units for either x 2 L2 health or 1 L3 health pot adding another 1500-1650 health, grand total 52300-52450 slightly overshot there, but health is fully restored to the tune of 168 units.
That's somewhere between a Peter Parker's wallet and Starlord's lootbag aka $5 and $10 USD in real money before taxes. This current model is unreasonable, and on some content that really does require 20-50 full champion revives (assuming you're a good player, more if you're not) to get through it's just downright insane.
Logical Example of how it should be: L1 = 10% (only available in quests) L2 = 20%, 7 units L3 = 40%, 14 units L4 = 60%. 21 units L5 = 80% 38 units
L1 revive 20% (only available in quests) L2 revive 40% 40 units
Fully revive a 6* R5 base example 52000 health L2 revive 40 units L3 health pot, 14 units Grand total 54 units back at 100% for one champ. This is a lot more reasonable and economical. Now I can fully revive a champ twice for a PP Wallet and 5 times for an SL loot bag. Might actually encourage me (and many other players) to buy them unit packs more and not care about farming anything.
Do this long overdue adjustment and I'm good with the obvious money grab to cut revive farming from the game. We get you're a business and you need paying customers so encourage those of us who already spend to keep spending, maybe even spend more often; and those of us who don't to strongly consider it by actually giving us some value for our hard earned money instead of trying to rob us blind.
I hope someone at Kabam reads this and seriously considers it. If you want to monetize more players this the way you're going to be successful at doing it at scale. If you proceed down the current path sure a few hundred players may spend more, but ultimately you're just going to drive a lot more current players away than you get to buy in. If it costs $500+ to complete every new challenge people will just stop caring and find something else to do because most people don't have that kind of a monthly or even quarterly budget available for Entertainment which at the end of the day is what this game is.
I'm an android user and my inputs are bugged as hell. I don't want to spend units for clearing eq just because my champs k.o. due to failed dext or parry. I'm not very skilled player, but i didn't needed to use revives in eq before the last inputs updates
Although if you can find a team that can test every single report with every single gaming scenario and every single device being used, I'd be happy to see the results. I hear monkeys with typewriters are effective....eventually.
Not that hard with 1 of the platforms used. The other yea that is hard to do. Apple it’s not as all it’s devices use 1 operating system’s software. Android yea that is harder to do. And considering the input issue per kabam and the player base been centered around the apple platform shouldn’t be that hard to figure out. Then again. I know it’s not as I use to troubleshoot circuits, phones, and computers for the military
It's not every single device and scenario, statistically the top 5 phones available are what 71% of the world uses. Regardless the test platforms available to test the top 7-10 phones and operating systems are available and from a corporate price point are cheap. I'm assuming they either choose not to pay and integrate one or have and obviously we see how that is going. From an earlier post they have said they are having a horrible time trying to code over the original coding and so I can see some of the issues stemmed from that however these changes don't follow the reasoning they have for them to come. While the only time I've ever revive farmed was for the og grandmaster and luckily didn't even use the 30 I farmed, I do agree farming is a slight issue but that is directly a result of pace. The content got harder significantly and the resources stayed the same. Level 1 potions .. seriously? They aren't percent based even 🤦♂️ I'm not against the change in general just the scale of it. It's disgusting even for someone who doesn't farm it. From a development side I understand we have to be business focused but not to the point we have every social media personality withdrawing their cash. Whale after whale giving the peace sign. The kabam burner accounts trying to give intelligent misdirection can continue to bs but the uproar is obviously a sign. Make changes but to both sides of the argument and make it less of an obvious cash grab. I enjoy the challenge but getting smacked in the face for spending as much as I do is getting old. Say what you want but I love this game and want it to live 🤷♂️ any typos above ignore them I have no intelligence 😉
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.
That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.
Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.
It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.
I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.
That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
The last piece of content I attempted and failed was the Maze. If the last piece of content I attempted was the Maze, then you are using a time machine to talk to me in 2019.
The very next sentence says "if it came and went after that, I completed it at its highest difficulty." That's all the Boss Rushes, all the celebrity challenges, all the special one time quests, the Gauntlet, Summer of Pain, and all of the weekly EoP quests. All points, all milestones, all achievable rewards. The only EoP content I haven't done yet are the permanent EoP objectives, as I mentioned. I don't think that counts as "barely did EoP."
So you've done all the things that don't require 'revive spamming, which was his point. You haven't done Abyss or Carina's Vol 2 or 3. Did you do Vol 1 with the 4* LOL runs?
Are you planning on doing any of that content and if so how are you going to do it w/o spending?
Why do you think you're a better player than him because you revived your way through carinas or the abyss? How much skill does it take to revive 50 times to complete a carinas challenge or a path in abyss?
He's not saying he couldn't do EoP with Carinas V3, he's saying he hasn't tried. Really, anyone can revive their way through content but that doesn't make them a skilled player. He has as much insight if not more than nearly everyone on these forums. He's been one of the few people in the community who have actually had direct effect on changes made to the game.
You aren't MSD, you aren't Sweeduh and you aren't Slayer. You're a regular person who revived their way through content.
MSD and Swedeah revive spammed 4* Starlord Carina's challenge. It is impossible to do that challenge without revive spamming. They revived their way through that challenge
Is it fair to assume that this relates to EOP Carina alone and their expected review from it? Bar mega whaling, this is the only place to achieve a R5.
(It could also be late TBs being able to achieve a relatively cheap R4 with 5/65 herc.)
With 3.6.2, doing all Carina's is in reach for most later game paragons. Particularly, if you've little left to do and you're 5-10 high sig r4s so in the wrong place to match optimally in battlegrounds, so there's little else to do and no where else to achieve that R5.
(That's me; 250 war MVPs, 11 r4s, high prestige, TB MEQ difficulty without revives since release).
Whereas the game design for years has always been a bucket full of revives to get through content, unless you are Uber skilled and lucky with counters.
Those revives needing units, mainly and it therefore throttling, by default, the availability of high rank mats to the mid level top progression players without spending.
If Carina's awarded 1 whole t5cc, I'd skip it. The whales would so do it, but I'm guessing most paragons would hard pass on it.
So is this the error in game design, that kabam are probably alluding to?
The mention of not wanting to allow people to use revives to trivialise content, is what has people riled up. That's been the way in mcoc since almost the start. You just need money to do it from here onwards is the new implication.
The nuance of this being an error in game and reward design, is always going to be drowned out, when the message they gave seems to be; "if you want to do late game content near to release, you have to pay *EXTRA*"
It's the implication of extra, that has me near the door and multiple alliance members having quit in the last two days, because of this announcement.
Most people revive farming through Carina's spend in the game anyway. They did.
The announcement being received as; there's nothing for you to do, but monthly MEQ, for the next few months and don't expect to do any new end game content, without spending *extra*, in the next few years.
How do they fix this??
(I'm someone who revive farmed to get through EOP carina. Average about 45 a run, with mutants for example a LOT less than spiders (no 2099).
I also farmed revives (albeit on act 4 venom) to get through the collector, to 100% act 5, all end of act, act 6 bosses, the grand master, sole abyss run and gauntlets (multiple - pre herc; 5/65 Aegon, Heimdall and unit man).
I also used a small number of units on them (bar the GM and abyss).
I buy the £4.99 unit subscription nearly every month and drop another £100 on whichever of cyber or 4th that I think it's going to be optimal. So I'm a real supporter of the game and kabam.
But
This will probably see me transition away from the game.
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.
That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.
Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.
It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.
I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.
That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
The last piece of content I attempted and failed was the Maze. If the last piece of content I attempted was the Maze, then you are using a time machine to talk to me in 2019.
The very next sentence says "if it came and went after that, I completed it at its highest difficulty." That's all the Boss Rushes, all the celebrity challenges, all the special one time quests, the Gauntlet, Summer of Pain, and all of the weekly EoP quests. All points, all milestones, all achievable rewards. The only EoP content I haven't done yet are the permanent EoP objectives, as I mentioned. I don't think that counts as "barely did EoP."
So you've done all the things that don't require 'revive spamming, which was his point. You haven't done Abyss or Carina's Vol 2 or 3. Did you do Vol 1 with the 4* LOL runs?
Are you planning on doing any of that content and if so how are you going to do it w/o spending?
Why do you think you're a better player than him because you revived your way through carinas or the abyss? How much skill does it take to revive 50 times to complete a carinas challenge or a path in abyss?
He's not saying he couldn't do EoP with Carinas V3, he's saying he hasn't tried. Really, anyone can revive their way through content but that doesn't make them a skilled player. He has as much insight if not more than nearly everyone on these forums. He's been one of the few people in the community who have actually had direct effect on changes made to the game.
You aren't MSD, you aren't Sweeduh and you aren't Slayer. You're a regular person who revived their way through content.
MSD and Swedeah revive spammed 4* Starlord Carina's challenge. It is impossible to do that challenge without revive spamming. They revived their way through that challenge
This is why people should not comment on matters without experience.
The SL challenge is impossible with 70-80+ revives for highest skilled players.. impossible!!!! And the 3* cyclops challenge was another (slightly more possible) but had to be revived spammed.
Why makes content like this - ££ $$$
But someone will soon defend this challenge and say it can be done 🤦♂️
It is WILD to me that people are honestly trying to pretend this move isnt motivated by trying to get summoner's to spend more.
If this was about stopping people being able to revive through difficult content, as they claim and as DNA and GW claim, the very obvious and clear solution to this problem would be item caps on Everest content.
They didnt do that. Why? It is clearly the easiest and most obvious solution to their problem. They could cap item usage on content based on what they think is reasonable and the top tier players will still do it easily within the item limits and unskilled players will face a git gud road block until they can complete it within the required item budget
They are NOT worried about people reviving through difficult content, because their solution allows for anyone who is willing to spend to do it. They are worried about people using FREE revives to get through difficult content. It is a cash grab. Whales will whale, they know that. Nothing changes there. But what they are banking on is milking more out of people who arent whales but who wish to complete the content quickly when the rewards are at their most valuable (rewards decrease in value over the time) so they can keep up with the Jones's in terms of being competitive in War, AQ, BGs etc
Just because you're a player who wont spend to do that content isnt some silver bullet that disproves anything. This is not aimed at you. You dont and wont spend to do the content. They arent worried about you. They're worried about the plethora of people who farm revives to help them complete content and stay competitive without excessive spending. Those people instead of farming free revives will now have to spend an extra $10-$15 if they want to do the content. That is the driving factor here. This is so evidently clear, and failure to even acknowledge that tells me you're not engaging on this in good faith IMO.
You aren’t happy people are getting free revives instead of buying them which is why you’re reducing the method for getting them. Mentioned the method for farming then is up to RNG yet you create a new proposed method that has a 1% and 5% chance to drop them? But ow no that’s not RNG right there….
If you genuinely want to stop revive spamming then just do for end game content what you have for AQ and put a limit on the amount of items that can be used. Stop a quest from allowing revive items but put an incursions like checkpoint where the player can revive their team if needed. Don’t remove a method for getting revives, lie about the reasons when we all know it’s because you want people to spend their units on revives.
You’re literally just creating an even bigger gap between players who spend, casually spend the odd time and players who don’t spend.
You can’t complain about players “spamming revives” when you create content that’s so difficult it literally needs you to stockpile those kinds of items to even attempt.
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.
That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.
Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.
It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.
I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.
That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
The last piece of content I attempted and failed was the Maze. If the last piece of content I attempted was the Maze, then you are using a time machine to talk to me in 2019.
The very next sentence says "if it came and went after that, I completed it at its highest difficulty." That's all the Boss Rushes, all the celebrity challenges, all the special one time quests, the Gauntlet, Summer of Pain, and all of the weekly EoP quests. All points, all milestones, all achievable rewards. The only EoP content I haven't done yet are the permanent EoP objectives, as I mentioned. I don't think that counts as "barely did EoP."
So you've done all the things that don't require 'revive spamming, which was his point. You haven't done Abyss or Carina's Vol 2 or 3. Did you do Vol 1 with the 4* LOL runs?
Are you planning on doing any of that content and if so how are you going to do it w/o spending?
Why do you think you're a better player than him because you revived your way through carinas or the abyss? How much skill does it take to revive 50 times to complete a carinas challenge or a path in abyss?
He's not saying he couldn't do EoP with Carinas V3, he's saying he hasn't tried. Really, anyone can revive their way through content but that doesn't make them a skilled player. He has as much insight if not more than nearly everyone on these forums. He's been one of the few people in the community who have actually had direct effect on changes made to the game.
You aren't MSD, you aren't Sweeduh and you aren't Slayer. You're a regular person who revived their way through content.
Look at you making this about skill now. If that’s all you took away, shame then
It’s about trying out content that’s clearly been designed to “revive spam”. Players who haven’t had that experience will think of it as nothing much or already have the pre existing decision to not attempt it simply because they don’t care enough to plow through ridiculous nodes and objectives
Someone who can’t understand the above would naturally be against such an opinion
Now you wouldn’t ask Abyss tips from a player who hasn’t done Abyss right?
I wouldn't ask for tips from people who used 100 revives either. If I was just going to revive my way through, I wouldn't even need to ask for advice.
I would ask DNA for advice regardless whether he's done the content because he knows the game inside and out.
You do you. But I guarantee his advice would be along the lines of not touching high end content to succumbing to saving up large amounts of revives regardless if those revives were accrued by farming or units🤭
Did the EoP fights change from when they were weekly? No. The only difference is they're all on 2 paths and Thanos is the boss which we've fought before.
I don't care about Abyss or lab. I've done my 1 path in each and that's all I care about.
Lmao and let me guess. You didn’t do any of the objectives right?
I have 2 V3 Carinas done. I have zero interest in either of v1 or v2.
The biggest mistake, mentality-wise for me, is that, for a few years now and it gets even more relevant by the day, they rely on spending players. They forget two very important factors:
1- Casual spenders are very important for the game's economy. The total monthly/annual amount of income they provide, is equal or maybe even superior to that of big spenders/whales/youtubers, because they have superiority by numbers. And the game knows that, that's why we see micropayments everywhere, every day. But, they are CASUAL spenders, that means they usually don't buy units, and they don't have a problem stop giving money to the game when they feel attacked. Like now.
2- The majority of FtP players are future spenders and they should be treated like that (well, actually they should be treated equally to the rest of the spending players, but... anyway.). That's how casual spenders appear, nobody starts playing a FREE game having in mind that he s going to spend money sometime in the future. Personally I started buying stuff here and there after around 3 years of playing, and After becoming TB. Last year I bought almost every big seasonal offer and every monthly card. This year,... just the sigil and two Paragon dailies. And I honestly don't know if I really need the Sigil anymore, it's pretty "cavalier state" at the moment.
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.
That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.
Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.
It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.
I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.
That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
The last piece of content I attempted and failed was the Maze. If the last piece of content I attempted was the Maze, then you are using a time machine to talk to me in 2019.
The very next sentence says "if it came and went after that, I completed it at its highest difficulty." That's all the Boss Rushes, all the celebrity challenges, all the special one time quests, the Gauntlet, Summer of Pain, and all of the weekly EoP quests. All points, all milestones, all achievable rewards. The only EoP content I haven't done yet are the permanent EoP objectives, as I mentioned. I don't think that counts as "barely did EoP."
So you've done all the things that don't require 'revive spamming, which was his point. You haven't done Abyss or Carina's Vol 2 or 3. Did you do Vol 1 with the 4* LOL runs?
Are you planning on doing any of that content and if so how are you going to do it w/o spending?
Why do you think you're a better player than him because you revived your way through carinas or the abyss? How much skill does it take to revive 50 times to complete a carinas challenge or a path in abyss?
He's not saying he couldn't do EoP with Carinas V3, he's saying he hasn't tried. Really, anyone can revive their way through content but that doesn't make them a skilled player. He has as much insight if not more than nearly everyone on these forums. He's been one of the few people in the community who have actually had direct effect on changes made to the game.
You aren't MSD, you aren't Sweeduh and you aren't Slayer. You're a regular person who revived their way through content.
You clearly don't understand the conversation you've jumped into. Nowhere did I say I was a better player because I've done all the content. Also, you have no idea how good I am or how many revives I needed to get through the content. That isn't the point.
What we're talking about is the fact that DNA hasn't done the content that required 'revive spamming' and with this change, he most likely will never do that content. He has said, and proven w/ his inaction with the current content, that he won't spend to get through content so he has no skin in the game. He's fine letting things sit for years and never getting to it. That fact means he is *not* in the main player base that is directly affected by this change.
Because he isn't the type of player who will quit if the content isn't reasonably beatable with the resources available his opinion, IMO, is worth less in this discussion.
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.
That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.
Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.
It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.
I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.
That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
The last piece of content I attempted and failed was the Maze. If the last piece of content I attempted was the Maze, then you are using a time machine to talk to me in 2019.
The very next sentence says "if it came and went after that, I completed it at its highest difficulty." That's all the Boss Rushes, all the celebrity challenges, all the special one time quests, the Gauntlet, Summer of Pain, and all of the weekly EoP quests. All points, all milestones, all achievable rewards. The only EoP content I haven't done yet are the permanent EoP objectives, as I mentioned. I don't think that counts as "barely did EoP."
So you've done all the things that don't require 'revive spamming, which was his point. You haven't done Abyss or Carina's Vol 2 or 3. Did you do Vol 1 with the 4* LOL runs?
Are you planning on doing any of that content and if so how are you going to do it w/o spending?
Why do you think you're a better player than him because you revived your way through carinas or the abyss? How much skill does it take to revive 50 times to complete a carinas challenge or a path in abyss?
He's not saying he couldn't do EoP with Carinas V3, he's saying he hasn't tried. Really, anyone can revive their way through content but that doesn't make them a skilled player. He has as much insight if not more than nearly everyone on these forums. He's been one of the few people in the community who have actually had direct effect on changes made to the game.
You aren't MSD, you aren't Sweeduh and you aren't Slayer. You're a regular person who revived their way through content.
Look at you making this about skill now. If that’s all you took away, shame then
It’s about trying out content that’s clearly been designed to “revive spam”. Players who haven’t had that experience will think of it as nothing much or already have the pre existing decision to not attempt it simply because they don’t care enough to plow through ridiculous nodes and objectives
Someone who can’t understand the above would naturally be against such an opinion
Now you wouldn’t ask Abyss tips from a player who hasn’t done Abyss right?
I wouldn't ask for tips from people who used 100 revives either. If I was just going to revive my way through, I wouldn't even need to ask for advice.
I would ask DNA for advice regardless whether he's done the content because he knows the game inside and out.
You do you. But I guarantee his advice would be along the lines of not touching high end content to succumbing to saving up large amounts of revives regardless if those revives were accrued by farming or units🤭
Did the EoP fights change from when they were weekly? No. The only difference is they're all on 2 paths and Thanos is the boss which we've fought before.
I don't care about Abyss or lab. I've done my 1 path in each and that's all I care about.
LMAO. I would appreciate if you don’t trivialise EoP Acceptance to singular EoP fights. Bigggg difference.
But point still stands, his advice wouldn’t differ much from avoiding high end content(as you’ve already corroborated) or needing large amounts of revives accrued by farming or units
So you're saying there's a difference between a 1-fight path that you can re-start until you get a solo and a 9-champ path with champ restrictions???????? I honsetly don't believe you. I'll have to ask MSD if that's true.
The biggest mistake, mentality-wise for me, is that, for a few years now and it gets even more relevant by the day, they rely on spending players. They forget two very important factors:
1- Casual spenders are very important for the game's economy. The total monthly/annual amount of income they provide, is equal or maybe even superior to that of big spenders/whales/youtubers, because they have superiority by numbers. And the game knows that, that's why we see micropayments everywhere, every day. But, they are CASUAL spenders, that means they usually don't buy units, and they don't have a problem stop giving money to the game when they feel attacked. Like now.
2- The majority of FtP players are future spenders and they should be treated like that (well, actually they should be treated equally to the rest of the spending players, but... anyway.). That's how casual spenders appear, nobody starts playing a FREE game having in mind that he s going to spend money sometime in the future. Personally I started buying stuff here and there after around 3 years of playing, and After becoming TB. Last year I bought almost every big seasonal offer and every monthly card. This year,... just the sigil and two Paragon dailies. And I honestly don't know if I really need the Sigil anymore, it's pretty "cavalier state" at the moment.
Also f2p players make up a huge volume of alliance members. Such players feeling alienated by Kabams inept game format decisions that directly inhibits their ability to progress as easily as pay to play players may very well quit or retire,..and this affects all players in alliances.
Although if you can find a team that can test every single report with every single gaming scenario and every single device being used, I'd be happy to see the results. I hear monkeys with typewriters are effective....eventually.
Not that hard with 1 of the platforms used. The other yea that is hard to do. Apple it’s not as all it’s devices use 1 operating system’s software. Android yea that is harder to do. And considering the input issue per kabam and the player base been centered around the apple platform shouldn’t be that hard to figure out. Then again. I know it’s not as I use to troubleshoot circuits, phones, and computers for the military
I work with phones and computers. There are over 1000 companies that have almost 25k different Android phones on the market. All with varying specs and systems. Now, you could narrow that down by what's supported and most commonly used, but you're still at a loss for any other variable going on. Processor, RAM, connection, conflicting Apps or other Apps being run, etc. Apple is a little easier to narrow down, but not as simple. It may be the same OS, depending on the version of iOS installed, but it's not foolproof. It's also not only Apple that is experiencing issues. Android has had lag for many, many years. Are there failings? Sure. They're not perfect. All they can do is the best they can and move forward. A bug-free game is a great hope to have, but it's not realistic with as many moving parts as this one. Eventually something will come up.
Quoting another. “If you don’t want players to revive farm 50+ revives….don’t make content that requires 50+ revives and then be surprised that players farm 50+ revives.”
Some content requires that level of items for most players. It was designed that way. Take away the ability to do so and you make some content undoable or unreachable for many in the game and you’re only making content for a small percentage of players. Not sure that’s good business.
Make an arena instead of a cornucopia to revive. At the moment it is not relevant at all now!!! Ban cheaters permanently. Because of cheaters, there is no desire to danat
So I guess one of the questions is, should I as an average Paragon player, be able to complete the same content an MSD, Lagacy etc can complete on Day 1 of it dropping just because I can farm 2,000 revives before it drops.
If I’m honest, no. But at the same time I do be believe I should be able to complete it at some point. Stopping revive farming would totally block my progress to a lot of content or I need to make a decision. Do I use real world money to buy revives, or do I use grinded units for revives.
About 5 years ago, I wouldn’t have attempted content without enough units to get revives if they were needed. Revive farming wasn’t really an option back then. But back then I didn’t spend any money on the game. Granted the game isn’t currently on my phone, but up to a month ago I would drop £250 on each of July 4th, Cyber weekend as well as a decent chunk on Spring Cleaning and Christmas deals. If I end up using my units for revives, I’m not gonna have enough for big sale unit deals so I’m not gonna spend real World money on these either. I’m just not. It will drive me from playing. Kabam may have factored this in and potentially losing players or income is an acceptable outcome of implementing this change.
@DNA3000 seems to have the most experience about gamebalancing so what this is my potential solution. And sorry if anyone else has mentioned this, but I’ve not seen this posted. Time gate the new content to have a max item use for say 1 month, 3 months etc (whatever is an appropriate time period) so only the elite can do the content. After this period of time then unlock the max item to unlimited item use for everyone else to complete if they can.
What about the less skilled whales? Well this is where those who are FTP may not like this suggestion but we gotta keep the lights on. Maybe have new class of purchasable revives that do not count towards the item count limit so those who want to spend real world money can whale away.
If "an average Paragon player" shouldn't be able to complete content early w/ farmed revives, should "an average Paragon player" be able to complete content w/ purchased revives?
What this change is saying is, "yes, an average Paragon player can do the content as long as they purchase the revives and not get them for free".
Late to the show since I just found out about this, but this is complete and utter rubbish. Without revive farming, how are we supposed to get through content where revives are quite literally mandatory? When Abyss of Legends came out, it was impossible to do without revives and without a lot of them. And if the concern is that revive farming makes Carina Challenges too easy, maybe don’t design them to be revive-fests!
If "an average Paragon player" shouldn't be able to complete content early w/ farmed revives, should "an average Paragon player" be able to complete content w/ purchased revives?
What this change is saying is, "yes, an average Paragon player can do the content as long as they purchase the revives and not get them for free".
Yep. I agree this is an outcome of this change. But whilst they are paying the game continues to operate. If the game makes enough revenue so the suggestion of a spending workaround for isn’t needed, take it out. Have the content item use time locked for everyone. But as much as we want a fair game, people who spend do get more benefits (the perks of spending) and their spending keeps the game running for everyone.
Here's something I'd love to hear from the devs, what change in content clearing are you expecting with this move? I know we'll never get the honest answer of more people buying units for revives but what are the alternatives really?
People relentlessly practice and fail deep into quests using revives to get there and restart? Not happening.
It takes significantly longer to build an inventory and therefore content stays uncleared longer? Likely to happen, but also result in the content never being cleared with design time and cost made less use of.
Players just don't bother anymore because they know the likelihood of needing to burn units or worse buy units when they get stuck? This is most likely as it already happens.
I'd really love to hear not just their hilariously disingenuous reasoning behind making this change, but what result they're after by making it. Saying revive spamming bad while leaving the option there through other means doesn't add up, what do they think players will do when they keep dying other than revive?
I'd like to take a slightly different tilt to this conversation. WHY do players feel the need to farm/spam revives to complete content.
First and foremost, Kabam has literally designed challenges that can ONLY be accomplished via revives and this is a common occurrence. Whether that be the initial release of Labyrinth when most people only had r5 4* or MAYBE r4 5*, to Abyss where you're literally capped on the number of hit you can do, to the more recent Carina challenges (some of those requiring you to go back and do LoL with 4* AGAIN). Point being there is content that even for the best of the best in this game it takes 40-50 revives and for most people it's 90+ for these challenges.
The second point in which I see players spamming revives is because they are more efficient than healing. The availability and potency of health potions is just laughable. We now have r5 6* champions with 50k+ hp and yet what is being offered in the proposed "apothecary" are level 1 health potions that heal for 375hp. That is 0.075% health on a r5 champ. The highest potion that is readily obtainable outside of offers is the level 4 that heals for 5000hp or 10% of a r5 champ. Revive cost is inflated because players cannot obtain enough potions to heal up to full when they do die.
The last point is item cap. As stated above much of the end game REQUIRES the use of 50-100 revives and yet our inventory is capped at 19 with a 14 day overflow limit. Even if you could cap out every level of your revives before going into a quest, most players would be hard pressed to have enough to complete the quests.
But I'm not just here to point out the problems. I see several things that could either all be done together, or pick and choose to make it more equitable for everyone.
1. (and I don't really see Kabam doing this one) Go back and change all of the content and challenges that require excess revives. Also, they would need to make a commitment not to create these types of challenges in the future. This included LOL, AOL, Guantet, Carina's challenges, etc... This would take a huge lift on kabam's part and I see it as the least likely to actually happen.
2. Raise the inventory caps on both potions and revives. This is self explanatory, but just raising the cap would allow players over time to obtain enough resources to complete the challenges laid out before.
3. Raise the frequency at which summoners obtain potions and revives. Most players are not interested in waiting 3-6 months for the trickle of resources to refill their inventory after doing 1 challenge. I'm not sure what the rate should be, but I would suggest no slower than being able to do 1 run of carinas per week. The whales among us will likely still buy revives to get them done ASAP, while the FTP players aren't left so far behind that the rewards lose any meaning.
4. Change potions from fixed value to percentage based. Level 1 potions should heal 10%, lvl 2 20%, lvl 3 30% and so on. Then it doesn't matter if you have a high health character or low health, it's the same to heal them up and doesn't matter if it's a 1* champion or 7* champion.
5. Give us a trade in store for both revives and potions. I don't see any reason that this should be limited. If we're going to have item caps, allow us to trade in for more potent resources so they don't just expire.
6. Last point is about the proposed apothecary. As proposed with current item limits and hp healing levels it's complete ****. Getting 1 revive and a level 1 potion a day will do absolutely nothing to help replace the amount of resources needed to complete the challenges listed above. IF kabam made some of the changes I listed, my opinion on this would change somewhat, but it's still another quest that uses energy and time grinding for resources when player just want to play a game. I think everyone would be better off if this was just included in the monthly calendar, or change the 4hr crystals to 2 hr crystals and make it so they auto-claim or something. There is already so much content to do everyday, we don't need one more quest that we feel we HAVE to complete.
After reading all the post I just came to some conclussions:
1. The theory of the changes is good, remove the revive farming on Acts 1 to 3 is the best choice they could do to keep the game alive, otherwise every content would be easier than supposed to be, BUT, there are 2 main problems with the changes:
a) The game itself is completely bugged, which means people are using more resources than they should, probably without the problems with AI and Inputs, the amount of revives and health potions used would be the half or less, so players right now need those revives more than ever, so I would wait for Kabam to make this changes.
b) They would be giving a good alternative if this was 2017-2019, since the game as evolved but the potions and revives didnt got updated, 375 HP potions are useless unless you have Sigil so you can trade 25 for the big HP potion. Champion health pools nowadays are at least at 30k, so it starts doing something after Lvl 3 Health Potions, below that is nothing, so the minimum Kabam should give for the easy run should be at least 1 Lvl 3 HP Potion, with a high chance to get another one, this in the easiest one, this said, they should also have more difficulties, instead of Easy and Hard, 4 at least with this rewards:
Easy: Playing vs 4* Champs
1. Completion would give 1 Lvl 3 HP Potion with a 25% chance to get another one in the node that they refered to 2. Exploration would give 1 Lvl 1 Revive with a 10% change to get another one in the node that they refered to.
Normal: Playing vs 5* Champs
1. Completion would give 1 Lvl 4 HP Potion with a 25% chance to get another one in the node that they refered to 2. Exploration would give 1 Lvl 1 Revive with a 25% change to get another one in the node that they refered to.
Hard: Playing vs 6* Champs
1. Completion would give 1 Lvl 5 HP Potion with a 15% chance to get another one in the node that they refered to. 2. Exploration would give 1 Lvl 2 Revive with a 10% change to get another one in the node that they refered to.
Very Hard: Playing vs 7* Champs
1. Completion would give 1 Lvl 5 HP Potion with a 45% chance to get another one in the node that they refered to. 2. Exploration would give 1 Lvl 2 Revive with a 25% change to get another one in the node that they refered to.
I think this would make the change way better.
And additionally if the players are too greedy, make a Objective for every difficulty were if you do all the Daily Quests of the week you get an extra reward, something like:
Easy: 1 Lvl 4 HP Pot and 1 additional Lvl 1 Revive Normal: 1 Lvl 5 HP Pot and 1 Lvl 2 Revive Hard: 2 Lvl 5 HP Pot and 2 Lvl 2 Revives Very Hard: 1 Lvl 6 Pot and 1 Lvl 3 Revive
But this last part would be just if Kabam is generous enough to make it.
2. The community is too used to farming revives, people exploits too much this method and they are acting like when you start saying "No, you cant get that" to a spoiled child and they start screaming at the store, something like that, so everybody is acting like "Yeah Kabam is not being comprehensive!" but neither the players are, and its very clear a lot of you dont really understand how some things work or should work like, and when someone tries to explain it the best way they can, you all just act like you are much more wiser because you completed determinated content in game with a good bunch of revives that you farmed, when that doesnt give you any real knowledge at all about anything but on how many revives you needed to do that content and how hard that content was for you but not how hard it should be.
So I'll give some explanations here
There is something called P2F, Pay 2 Fast, where the game is perfectly doable without spending money on it, but you can do it faster if you spend money, which is the case of MCOC. The problem is that a lot of people by using this method of farming thinks that you must be able to do the content as fast as you can, where thats not the case, not because I say it but because it is like that, thats why when Abyss came out, the people that were able to do it first were awarded in some ways, because It is hard content that a lot of people has undone cause it is very hard and you need a preparation time for it.
Gauntlet or EoP are much easier Everest Content, but that doesnt mean that you should be able to do it as soon as it goes out, because it is not meant that way, neither to be able to be done for everybody, but for the ones more skilled and with bigger and better rosters, so the point is, you want to do it the first day or the first week because you want the rewards and you want the prestige it gaves to you for the rest of the content like Alliance? Nice, then you want to do faster the content that is not supposed to be done fast, what that means? You fall in the group of people that would Pay 2 Fast, so you spend if you want to do something faster than the rest of the people, and thats how it works, you can like it or not, but this is not something that you can argue about, it is just how it is.
So, you dont want to spend money? Then you have to farm like every game that works this way, and that takes time, like every game that works this way, the problem here is that revive farming was a WAY FASTER way that it should be, because you could get 100 revives in two days, I got 20 revives in just some hours on auto-fight, If you think about that objectively, that is COMPLETELY insane, and Kabam usually acts like "Yeah thats not supposed to be like that" when they do changes, but THIS is not that case, you shouldnt be able to farm such a useful resource that easily and that fast, and again, THATS HOW IT IS, its not something you can argue about.
So for all the people that want to keep their accounts at the top places, they have to do the same the top places do, which is either spending on the game or using your time playing arenas to get Units to be able to buy this revives, you dont like it because it is slower or harder than doing autofights on Act 2 and 3? Well, obviously you are not going to like it but that doesnt mean it is unfair.
So with this change Kabam fixes 2 problems:
1. The tremendous exploit of farming revives on Acts that you shouldnt be repeating for that matter, getting a ton of valuable resources on a couple of hours. 2. The problem with their Everest Content, where people that is not even Paragon being able to do Carina's Challenges (which ALWAYS were meant for the people with EVERYTHING done, so they still have hard things to do) just spamming revives, when again, it is content that isnt supposed to be done the first day.
So the final conclussion after all I said is that neither the players and Kabam are being comprehensive.
And Im sorry if you are disagree, but again, this is not about opinions, this is about how the game works, and about how the game should work, I just hope that Kabam waits till they fix the bugs to make this change and when they make it, they upgrade the Daily Quest so it fits better with the actual state of the game.
Comments
Did the EoP fights change from when they were weekly? No. The only difference is they're all on 2 paths and Thanos is the boss which we've fought before.
I don't care about Abyss or lab. I've done my 1 path in each and that's all I care about.
Not totally true, they were 6* defenders when it was weekly
In terms of real money, restoring a single champion from 0 to 100% health shouldn't cost between $5-10 USD but it does with the current system.
My one 6*R5 champ has a health pool of roughly 52000. To fully restore his health from 0-100 with units right now from the potion store it would cost:
40 units for 1 level 2 revive for 20800 health
38 units x 3 level 5 health pots for another 30000 health bringing the total to 50800
14 units for either x 2 L2 health or 1 L3 health pot adding another 1500-1650 health, grand total 52300-52450 slightly overshot there, but health is fully restored to the tune of 168 units.
That's somewhere between a Peter Parker's wallet and Starlord's lootbag aka $5 and $10 USD in real money before taxes. This current model is unreasonable, and on some content that really does require 20-50 full champion revives (assuming you're a good player, more if you're not) to get through it's just downright insane.
Logical Example of how it should be:
L1 = 10% (only available in quests)
L2 = 20%, 7 units
L3 = 40%, 14 units
L4 = 60%. 21 units
L5 = 80% 38 units
L1 revive 20% (only available in quests)
L2 revive 40% 40 units
Fully revive a 6* R5 base example 52000 health
L2 revive 40 units
L3 health pot, 14 units
Grand total 54 units back at 100% for one champ. This is a lot more reasonable and economical. Now I can fully revive a champ twice for a PP Wallet and 5 times for an SL loot bag. Might actually encourage me (and many other players) to buy them unit packs more and not care about farming anything.
Do this long overdue adjustment and I'm good with the obvious money grab to cut revive farming from the game. We get you're a business and you need paying customers so encourage those of us who already spend to keep spending, maybe even spend more often; and those of us who don't to strongly consider it by actually giving us some value for our hard earned money instead of trying to rob us blind.
I hope someone at Kabam reads this and seriously considers it. If you want to monetize more players this the way you're going to be successful at doing it at scale. If you proceed down the current path sure a few hundred players may spend more, but ultimately you're just going to drive a lot more current players away than you get to buy in. If it costs $500+ to complete every new challenge people will just stop caring and find something else to do because most people don't have that kind of a monthly or even quarterly budget available for Entertainment which at the end of the day is what this game is.
Is it fair to assume that this relates to EOP Carina alone and their expected review from it? Bar mega whaling, this is the only place to achieve a R5.
(It could also be late TBs being able to achieve a relatively cheap R4 with 5/65 herc.)
With 3.6.2, doing all Carina's is in reach for most later game paragons. Particularly, if you've little left to do and you're 5-10 high sig r4s so in the wrong place to match optimally in battlegrounds, so there's little else to do and no where else to achieve that R5.
(That's me; 250 war MVPs, 11 r4s, high prestige, TB MEQ difficulty without revives since release).
Whereas the game design for years has always been a bucket full of revives to get through content, unless you are Uber skilled and lucky with counters.
Those revives needing units, mainly and it therefore throttling, by default, the availability of high rank mats to the mid level top progression players without spending.
If Carina's awarded 1 whole t5cc, I'd skip it. The whales would so do it, but I'm guessing most paragons would hard pass on it.
So is this the error in game design, that kabam are probably alluding to?
The mention of not wanting to allow people to use revives to trivialise content, is what has people riled up. That's been the way in mcoc since almost the start. You just need money to do it from here onwards is the new implication.
The nuance of this being an error in game and reward design, is always going to be drowned out, when the message they gave seems to be; "if you want to do late game content near to release, you have to pay *EXTRA*"
It's the implication of extra, that has me near the door and multiple alliance members having quit in the last two days, because of this announcement.
Most people revive farming through Carina's spend in the game anyway. They did.
The announcement being received as; there's nothing for you to do, but monthly MEQ, for the next few months and don't expect to do any new end game content, without spending *extra*, in the next few years.
How do they fix this??
I also farmed revives (albeit on act 4 venom) to get through the collector, to 100% act 5, all end of act, act 6 bosses, the grand master, sole abyss run and gauntlets (multiple - pre herc; 5/65 Aegon, Heimdall and unit man).
I also used a small number of units on them (bar the GM and abyss).
I buy the £4.99 unit subscription nearly every month and drop another £100 on whichever of cyber or 4th that I think it's going to be optimal. So I'm a real supporter of the game and kabam.
But
This will probably see me transition away from the game.
The SL challenge is impossible with 70-80+ revives for highest skilled players.. impossible!!!! And the 3* cyclops challenge was another (slightly more possible) but had to be revived spammed.
Why makes content like this - ££ $$$
But someone will soon defend this challenge and say it can be done 🤦♂️
You aren’t happy people are getting free revives instead of buying them which is why you’re reducing the method for getting them.
Mentioned the method for farming then is up to RNG yet you create a new proposed method that has a 1% and 5% chance to drop them? But ow no that’s not RNG right there….
If you genuinely want to stop revive spamming then just do for end game content what you have for AQ and put a limit on the amount of items that can be used.
Stop a quest from allowing revive items but put an incursions like checkpoint where the player can revive their team if needed.
Don’t remove a method for getting revives, lie about the reasons when we all know it’s because you want people to spend their units on revives.
You’re literally just creating an even bigger gap between players who spend, casually spend the odd time and players who don’t spend.
You can’t complain about players “spamming revives” when you create content that’s so difficult it literally needs you to stockpile those kinds of items to even attempt.
1- Casual spenders are very important for the game's economy. The total monthly/annual amount of income they provide, is equal or maybe even superior to that of big spenders/whales/youtubers, because they have superiority by numbers. And the game knows that, that's why we see micropayments everywhere, every day. But, they are CASUAL spenders, that means they usually don't buy units, and they don't have a problem stop giving money to the game when they feel attacked. Like now.
2- The majority of FtP players are future spenders and they should be treated like that (well, actually they should be treated equally to the rest of the spending players, but... anyway.). That's how casual spenders appear, nobody starts playing a FREE game having in mind that he s going to spend money sometime in the future. Personally I started buying stuff here and there after around 3 years of playing, and After becoming TB. Last year I bought almost every big seasonal offer and every monthly card. This year,... just the sigil and two Paragon dailies. And I honestly don't know if I really need the Sigil anymore, it's pretty "cavalier state" at the moment.
What we're talking about is the fact that DNA hasn't done the content that required 'revive spamming' and with this change, he most likely will never do that content. He has said, and proven w/ his inaction with the current content, that he won't spend to get through content so he has no skin in the game. He's fine letting things sit for years and never getting to it. That fact means he is *not* in the main player base that is directly affected by this change.
Because he isn't the type of player who will quit if the content isn't reasonably beatable with the resources available his opinion, IMO, is worth less in this discussion.
Apple is a little easier to narrow down, but not as simple. It may be the same OS, depending on the version of iOS installed, but it's not foolproof. It's also not only Apple that is experiencing issues. Android has had lag for many, many years.
Are there failings? Sure. They're not perfect. All they can do is the best they can and move forward. A bug-free game is a great hope to have, but it's not realistic with as many moving parts as this one. Eventually something will come up.
Some content requires that level of items for most players. It was designed that way. Take away the ability to do so and you make some content undoable or unreachable for many in the game and you’re only making content for a small percentage of players. Not sure that’s good business.
If I’m honest, no. But at the same time I do be believe I should be able to complete it at some point. Stopping revive farming would totally block my progress to a lot of content or I need to make a decision. Do I use real world money to buy revives, or do I use grinded units for revives.
About 5 years ago, I wouldn’t have attempted content without enough units to get revives if they were needed. Revive farming wasn’t really an option back then. But back then I didn’t spend any money on the game. Granted the game isn’t currently on my phone, but up to a month ago I would drop £250 on each of July 4th, Cyber weekend as well as a decent chunk on Spring Cleaning and Christmas deals. If I end up using my units for revives, I’m not gonna have enough for big sale unit deals so I’m not gonna spend real World money on these either. I’m just not. It will drive me from playing. Kabam may have factored this in and potentially losing players or income is an acceptable outcome of implementing this change.
@DNA3000 seems to have the most experience about gamebalancing so what this is my potential solution. And sorry if anyone else has mentioned this, but I’ve not seen this posted. Time gate the new content to have a max item use for say 1 month, 3 months etc (whatever is an appropriate time period) so only the elite can do the content. After this period of time then unlock the max item to unlimited item use for everyone else to complete if they can.
What about the less skilled whales? Well this is where those who are FTP may not like this suggestion but we gotta keep the lights on. Maybe have new class of purchasable revives that do not count towards the item count limit so those who want to spend real world money can whale away.
What this change is saying is, "yes, an average Paragon player can do the content as long as they purchase the revives and not get them for free".
And if the concern is that revive farming makes Carina Challenges too easy, maybe don’t design them to be revive-fests!
People relentlessly practice and fail deep into quests using revives to get there and restart? Not happening.
It takes significantly longer to build an inventory and therefore content stays uncleared longer? Likely to happen, but also result in the content never being cleared with design time and cost made less use of.
Players just don't bother anymore because they know the likelihood of needing to burn units or worse buy units when they get stuck? This is most likely as it already happens.
I'd really love to hear not just their hilariously disingenuous reasoning behind making this change, but what result they're after by making it. Saying revive spamming bad while leaving the option there through other means doesn't add up, what do they think players will do when they keep dying other than revive?
First and foremost, Kabam has literally designed challenges that can ONLY be accomplished via revives and this is a common occurrence. Whether that be the initial release of Labyrinth when most people only had r5 4* or MAYBE r4 5*, to Abyss where you're literally capped on the number of hit you can do, to the more recent Carina challenges (some of those requiring you to go back and do LoL with 4* AGAIN). Point being there is content that even for the best of the best in this game it takes 40-50 revives and for most people it's 90+ for these challenges.
The second point in which I see players spamming revives is because they are more efficient than healing. The availability and potency of health potions is just laughable. We now have r5 6* champions with 50k+ hp and yet what is being offered in the proposed "apothecary" are level 1 health potions that heal for 375hp. That is 0.075% health on a r5 champ. The highest potion that is readily obtainable outside of offers is the level 4 that heals for 5000hp or 10% of a r5 champ. Revive cost is inflated because players cannot obtain enough potions to heal up to full when they do die.
The last point is item cap. As stated above much of the end game REQUIRES the use of 50-100 revives and yet our inventory is capped at 19 with a 14 day overflow limit. Even if you could cap out every level of your revives before going into a quest, most players would be hard pressed to have enough to complete the quests.
But I'm not just here to point out the problems. I see several things that could either all be done together, or pick and choose to make it more equitable for everyone.
1. (and I don't really see Kabam doing this one) Go back and change all of the content and challenges that require excess revives. Also, they would need to make a commitment not to create these types of challenges in the future.
This included LOL, AOL, Guantet, Carina's challenges, etc... This would take a huge lift on kabam's part and I see it as the least likely to actually happen.
2. Raise the inventory caps on both potions and revives. This is self explanatory, but just raising the cap would allow players over time to obtain enough resources to complete the challenges laid out before.
3. Raise the frequency at which summoners obtain potions and revives. Most players are not interested in waiting 3-6 months for the trickle of resources to refill their inventory after doing 1 challenge. I'm not sure what the rate should be, but I would suggest no slower than being able to do 1 run of carinas per week. The whales among us will likely still buy revives to get them done ASAP, while the FTP players aren't left so far behind that the rewards lose any meaning.
4. Change potions from fixed value to percentage based. Level 1 potions should heal 10%, lvl 2 20%, lvl 3 30% and so on. Then it doesn't matter if you have a high health character or low health, it's the same to heal them up and doesn't matter if it's a 1* champion or 7* champion.
5. Give us a trade in store for both revives and potions. I don't see any reason that this should be limited. If we're going to have item caps, allow us to trade in for more potent resources so they don't just expire.
6. Last point is about the proposed apothecary. As proposed with current item limits and hp healing levels it's complete ****. Getting 1 revive and a level 1 potion a day will do absolutely nothing to help replace the amount of resources needed to complete the challenges listed above. IF kabam made some of the changes I listed, my opinion on this would change somewhat, but it's still another quest that uses energy and time grinding for resources when player just want to play a game. I think everyone would be better off if this was just included in the monthly calendar, or change the 4hr crystals to 2 hr crystals and make it so they auto-claim or something. There is already so much content to do everyday, we don't need one more quest that we feel we HAVE to complete.
1. The theory of the changes is good, remove the revive farming on Acts 1 to 3 is the best choice they could do to keep the game alive, otherwise every content would be easier than supposed to be, BUT, there are 2 main problems with the changes:
a) The game itself is completely bugged, which means people are using more resources than they should, probably without the problems with AI and Inputs, the amount of revives and health potions used would be the half or less, so players right now need those revives more than ever, so I would wait for Kabam to make this changes.
b) They would be giving a good alternative if this was 2017-2019, since the game as evolved but the potions and revives didnt got updated, 375 HP potions are useless unless you have Sigil so you can trade 25 for the big HP potion.
Champion health pools nowadays are at least at 30k, so it starts doing something after Lvl 3 Health Potions, below that is nothing, so the minimum Kabam should give for the easy run should be at least 1 Lvl 3 HP Potion, with a high chance to get another one, this in the easiest one, this said, they should also have more difficulties, instead of Easy and Hard, 4 at least with this rewards:
Easy: Playing vs 4* Champs
1. Completion would give 1 Lvl 3 HP Potion with a 25% chance to get another one in the node that they refered to
2. Exploration would give 1 Lvl 1 Revive with a 10% change to get another one in the node that they refered to.
Normal: Playing vs 5* Champs
1. Completion would give 1 Lvl 4 HP Potion with a 25% chance to get another one in the node that they refered to
2. Exploration would give 1 Lvl 1 Revive with a 25% change to get another one in the node that they refered to.
Hard: Playing vs 6* Champs
1. Completion would give 1 Lvl 5 HP Potion with a 15% chance to get another one in the node that they refered to.
2. Exploration would give 1 Lvl 2 Revive with a 10% change to get another one in the node that they refered to.
Very Hard: Playing vs 7* Champs
1. Completion would give 1 Lvl 5 HP Potion with a 45% chance to get another one in the node that they refered to.
2. Exploration would give 1 Lvl 2 Revive with a 25% change to get another one in the node that they refered to.
I think this would make the change way better.
And additionally if the players are too greedy, make a Objective for every difficulty were if you do all the Daily Quests of the week you get an extra reward, something like:
Easy: 1 Lvl 4 HP Pot and 1 additional Lvl 1 Revive
Normal: 1 Lvl 5 HP Pot and 1 Lvl 2 Revive
Hard: 2 Lvl 5 HP Pot and 2 Lvl 2 Revives
Very Hard: 1 Lvl 6 Pot and 1 Lvl 3 Revive
But this last part would be just if Kabam is generous enough to make it.
2. The community is too used to farming revives, people exploits too much this method and they are acting like when you start saying "No, you cant get that" to a spoiled child and they start screaming at the store, something like that, so everybody is acting like "Yeah Kabam is not being comprehensive!" but neither the players are, and its very clear a lot of you dont really understand how some things work or should work like, and when someone tries to explain it the best way they can, you all just act like you are much more wiser because you completed determinated content in game with a good bunch of revives that you farmed, when that doesnt give you any real knowledge at all about anything but on how many revives you needed to do that content and how hard that content was for you but not how hard it should be.
So I'll give some explanations here
There is something called P2F, Pay 2 Fast, where the game is perfectly doable without spending money on it, but you can do it faster if you spend money, which is the case of MCOC.
The problem is that a lot of people by using this method of farming thinks that you must be able to do the content as fast as you can, where thats not the case, not because I say it but because it is like that, thats why when Abyss came out, the people that were able to do it first were awarded in some ways, because It is hard content that a lot of people has undone cause it is very hard and you need a preparation time for it.
Gauntlet or EoP are much easier Everest Content, but that doesnt mean that you should be able to do it as soon as it goes out, because it is not meant that way, neither to be able to be done for everybody, but for the ones more skilled and with bigger and better rosters, so the point is, you want to do it the first day or the first week because you want the rewards and you want the prestige it gaves to you for the rest of the content like Alliance? Nice, then you want to do faster the content that is not supposed to be done fast, what that means? You fall in the group of people that would Pay 2 Fast, so you spend if you want to do something faster than the rest of the people, and thats how it works, you can like it or not, but this is not something that you can argue about, it is just how it is.
So, you dont want to spend money? Then you have to farm like every game that works this way, and that takes time, like every game that works this way, the problem here is that revive farming was a WAY FASTER way that it should be, because you could get 100 revives in two days, I got 20 revives in just some hours on auto-fight, If you think about that objectively, that is COMPLETELY insane, and Kabam usually acts like "Yeah thats not supposed to be like that" when they do changes, but THIS is not that case, you shouldnt be able to farm such a useful resource that easily and that fast, and again, THATS HOW IT IS, its not something you can argue about.
So for all the people that want to keep their accounts at the top places, they have to do the same the top places do, which is either spending on the game or using your time playing arenas to get Units to be able to buy this revives, you dont like it because it is slower or harder than doing autofights on Act 2 and 3? Well, obviously you are not going to like it but that doesnt mean it is unfair.
So with this change Kabam fixes 2 problems:
1. The tremendous exploit of farming revives on Acts that you shouldnt be repeating for that matter, getting a ton of valuable resources on a couple of hours.
2. The problem with their Everest Content, where people that is not even Paragon being able to do Carina's Challenges (which ALWAYS were meant for the people with EVERYTHING done, so they still have hard things to do) just spamming revives, when again, it is content that isnt supposed to be done the first day.
So the final conclussion after all I said is that neither the players and Kabam are being comprehensive.
And Im sorry if you are disagree, but again, this is not about opinions, this is about how the game works, and about how the game should work, I just hope that Kabam waits till they fix the bugs to make this change and when they make it, they upgrade the Daily Quest so it fits better with the actual state of the game.