Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

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  • JediTrix5JediTrix5 Member Posts: 5
    edited March 2023
    Mackey said:

    JediTrix5 said:

    Mackey said:


    Maybe a good compromise would be to leave it as is and then any new "everest" content that gets released has a limit on how many revives one can use in there, that would still render the farming option pointless while maintaining difficulty. The only thing here is that those folk who want spend a fortune on revives to push through it, won't be able to... which I don't see kabam doing

    I like the idea of limiting revives on future content. We’ve actually seen this with recent SQ objectives where we need to solo bosses.

    And I agree this doesn’t align with what we are all assuming is the driving factor of this change - to sell more units/revives.

    Perhaps future Everest content uses some special revive that is only obtainable through units? Think something like Abyss specific revives.
    Yeah something like that could work. Only allowed to use *20 revives (level 1 or 2) bur you can buy quest specific revives for units and use an unlimited amount of them

    I like where this thought process is going.

    A real compromise. Good stuff.
  • MetalgasmMetalgasm Member Posts: 6
    I myself am a f2p player, looking at some of this more difficult content and debating reward vs effort, but this change would absolutely crush that for me. I do not have the "skills" to use only a few revives or have ten thousand units to complete something like Labyrinth of Legends (as an example) without doing exactly what you're proposing a stop to, the potion farming. The change you are implying, even with the addition of the apothecary, does not give a normal player, f2p or casual spender, a fighting chance at ever seeing the completion of some of this content. In my eyes, this is a blatant cash grab and its going to really crush a lot of spirits across the battlerealm.

    You claim that some days between 300-500k revives were farmed. There is a reason for that need to farm! So many of us rely on that even for story progression. Please rethink this choice!
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  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,570 ★★★★★
    7714dtl said:

    How many of those are active?

    Well considering just through gold 3 ranking in AW runs through 4500 alliances x 30 comes out to about 135,000 active accounts(I know all those alliances aren't full byt I also stopped at Gold 3). Obviously there are alot more active accounts than this. So either everybody is farming around 3 or less a day which isn't alot or only a fraction of the player base is farming revives which makes it not a big deal. Even with some variance for those that farm nothing compared to those that farm alot when considering this the reported number isn't actually that big a deal.

    I get ny numbers aren't exact but as far as aproximations go when viewed like this Kabam's freakout is questionable at best.
    You also have to factor in the smaller number of Players who are actually farming them. I'd wager it's not the entire population.
  • Capt_StarkillerCapt_Starkiller Member Posts: 6
    There are so many better alternatives that could have been developed to address the issue, so that a true compromise was reached. Players want meaningful content. The apothecary is a fine idea, but a new quest to earn revives per day being a pathetic auto fight quest isn’t exciting, but could be something that players could get behind if done correctly. Cavalier, Thronebreaker, and Paragon players should have an opportunity to complete a Apothecary quest that is designed to be a LOL, AOL, EOP, Gauntlet, and High level Story quest “Training” type, daily or weekly quest that requires the player to EARN a lvl 3 revive after completing 100%, and lvl 2 revive or lvl 4 Health potion for winning the fights on the 1 energy per step short (Realm of Legends) style quest. Make the quest star or snowflake shaped, starting in the middle, allowing the player to choose one of any of the defenders to attack first, then a portal to any of the next defenders, until finishing all fights and completing the challenge. Fights should be high health, appropriate attack damage, not champion counter specific, with no more than 2 nodes. This would help players to earn the revives needed, provide a short challenge to test player readiness, and add another quest that end game players could use to test new champions!
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  • StellarStellar Member Posts: 1,086 ★★★★
    So, apart saying "you ill still be able to spam revives, but will have to pay for that now", Kabam has given no more explanation or answer ?
  • JefechutaJefechuta Member Posts: 1,212 ★★★★
    Emilia90 said:

    Jefechuta said:

    After reading all the post I just came to some conclussions:


    1. The theory of the changes is good, remove the revive farming on Acts 1 to 3 is the best choice they could do to keep the game alive, otherwise every content would be easier than supposed to be, BUT, there are 2 main problems with the changes:

    a) The game itself is completely bugged, which means people are using more resources than they should, probably without the problems with AI and Inputs, the amount of revives and health potions used would be the half or less, so players right now need those revives more than ever, so I would wait for Kabam to make this changes.

    b) They would be giving a good alternative if this was 2017-2019, since the game as evolved but the potions and revives didnt got updated, 375 HP potions are useless unless you have Sigil so you can trade 25 for the big HP potion.
    Champion health pools nowadays are at least at 30k, so it starts doing something after Lvl 3 Health Potions, below that is nothing, so the minimum Kabam should give for the easy run should be at least 1 Lvl 3 HP Potion, with a high chance to get another one, this in the easiest one, this said, they should also have more difficulties, instead of Easy and Hard, 4 at least with this rewards:

    Easy: Playing vs 4* Champs

    1. Completion would give 1 Lvl 3 HP Potion with a 25% chance to get another one in the node that they refered to
    2. Exploration would give 1 Lvl 1 Revive with a 10% change to get another one in the node that they refered to.

    Normal: Playing vs 5* Champs

    1. Completion would give 1 Lvl 4 HP Potion with a 25% chance to get another one in the node that they refered to
    2. Exploration would give 1 Lvl 1 Revive with a 25% change to get another one in the node that they refered to.

    Hard: Playing vs 6* Champs

    1. Completion would give 1 Lvl 5 HP Potion with a 15% chance to get another one in the node that they refered to.
    2. Exploration would give 1 Lvl 2 Revive with a 10% change to get another one in the node that they refered to.

    Very Hard: Playing vs 7* Champs

    1. Completion would give 1 Lvl 5 HP Potion with a 45% chance to get another one in the node that they refered to.
    2. Exploration would give 1 Lvl 2 Revive with a 25% change to get another one in the node that they refered to.

    I think this would make the change way better.

    And additionally if the players are too greedy, make a Objective for every difficulty were if you do all the Daily Quests of the week you get an extra reward, something like:

    Easy: 1 Lvl 4 HP Pot and 1 additional Lvl 1 Revive
    Normal: 1 Lvl 5 HP Pot and 1 Lvl 2 Revive
    Hard: 2 Lvl 5 HP Pot and 2 Lvl 2 Revives
    Very Hard: 1 Lvl 6 Pot and 1 Lvl 3 Revive

    But this last part would be just if Kabam is generous enough to make it.


    2. The community is too used to farming revives, people exploits too much this method and they are acting like when you start saying "No, you cant get that" to a spoiled child and they start screaming at the store, something like that, so everybody is acting like "Yeah Kabam is not being comprehensive!" but neither the players are, and its very clear a lot of you dont really understand how some things work or should work like, and when someone tries to explain it the best way they can, you all just act like you are much more wiser because you completed determinated content in game with a good bunch of revives that you farmed, when that doesnt give you any real knowledge at all about anything but on how many revives you needed to do that content and how hard that content was for you but not how hard it should be.

    So I'll give some explanations here

    There is something called P2F, Pay 2 Fast, where the game is perfectly doable without spending money on it, but you can do it faster if you spend money, which is the case of MCOC.
    The problem is that a lot of people by using this method of farming thinks that you must be able to do the content as fast as you can, where thats not the case, not because I say it but because it is like that, thats why when Abyss came out, the people that were able to do it first were awarded in some ways, because It is hard content that a lot of people has undone cause it is very hard and you need a preparation time for it.

    Gauntlet or EoP are much easier Everest Content, but that doesnt mean that you should be able to do it as soon as it goes out, because it is not meant that way, neither to be able to be done for everybody, but for the ones more skilled and with bigger and better rosters, so the point is, you want to do it the first day or the first week because you want the rewards and you want the prestige it gaves to you for the rest of the content like Alliance? Nice, then you want to do faster the content that is not supposed to be done fast, what that means? You fall in the group of people that would Pay 2 Fast, so you spend if you want to do something faster than the rest of the people, and thats how it works, you can like it or not, but this is not something that you can argue about, it is just how it is.

    So, you dont want to spend money? Then you have to farm like every game that works this way, and that takes time, like every game that works this way, the problem here is that revive farming was a WAY FASTER way that it should be, because you could get 100 revives in two days, I got 20 revives in just some hours on auto-fight, If you think about that objectively, that is COMPLETELY insane, and Kabam usually acts like "Yeah thats not supposed to be like that" when they do changes, but THIS is not that case, you shouldnt be able to farm such a useful resource that easily and that fast, and again, THATS HOW IT IS, its not something you can argue about.

    So for all the people that want to keep their accounts at the top places, they have to do the same the top places do, which is either spending on the game or using your time playing arenas to get Units to be able to buy this revives, you dont like it because it is slower or harder than doing autofights on Act 2 and 3? Well, obviously you are not going to like it but that doesnt mean it is unfair.

    So with this change Kabam fixes 2 problems:

    1. The tremendous exploit of farming revives on Acts that you shouldnt be repeating for that matter, getting a ton of valuable resources on a couple of hours.
    2. The problem with their Everest Content, where people that is not even Paragon being able to do Carina's Challenges (which ALWAYS were meant for the people with EVERYTHING done, so they still have hard things to do) just spamming revives, when again, it is content that isnt supposed to be done the first day.

    So the final conclussion after all I said is that neither the players and Kabam are being comprehensive.

    And Im sorry if you are disagree, but again, this is not about opinions, this is about how the game works, and about how the game should work, I just hope that Kabam waits till they fix the bugs to make this change and when they make it, they upgrade the Daily Quest so it fits better with the actual state of the game.

    Imagine returning to the same first day comments when that isn’t the case for anything mentioned. It’s been months and even years for some of the content and they still require spamming revives.

    That one cyclops challenge with a 3* REQUIRES you to spam revives since he sucks and you also get screwed on the collector even if you play perfectly (even the best players did this with many many revives). 4* LoL challenges require a ton of revives no matter how well you play

    It’s amazing how you just keep reiterating the same tone deaf points with no care. Hard content and content that forces you to spend revives regardless of how good you play are not equivalent

    EOP challenges could be out for another year and they would still be just as difficult to do unless you have every objective champ at rank 4/5 (even so, it would take a lot since they’re very inoptimal for the fights). Unless what you’re suggesting is that everyone waits until the content is outdated and able to be completed itemless
    People that have been here for years know perfectly that they can do that content without this revive farming system, not without revives, players always received enough revives to do the content that requires revive to be done, and thats a fact, I've done all the content that was hard back then without farming revives, I remember act 6 worse fights done without revives because I didnt have time to farm revives or units and I was a non spender so I couldnt rely on spending money, so I waited till I had enough revives and units to do so, a lot of people did Abyss without that revive farming, what required a lot of revives, more than the Carina's Challenges, so the point that says "We need revive farming to have enough revives to do content" is just untrue, you get enough revives through other ways, not only revives but units, so you can go through the content without this exploit, and dude, thats not arguable, there are content that REQUIRES to use revives, but that doesnt mean you wont have enough revives/units to do so, yeah you need revives for some of the 3* and 4* champ Carina Challenges, but as I said, you are not going to do that challenges unless thats the only content you have left, because thats the objective of Kabam dropping that challenges, for the people that have nothing else besides de AQ,AW, Arenas and BG to do, and after the drop of BG, some of those Carina Challenges are not worth the effort and the resources anymore, so I dont really understand why everyone bargains with that excuse when I dont think any of you is going to try those challenges unless thats what you have left, and If you were about to do it, again, you wont ESTRICTLY NEED revive farming, it helps? Yeah, of course it does, but you get revives from the new daily quest, that I hope they restructure somehow like I stated before, you get revives from Daily 22h Quests/Missions, you still get revives on EQ and you still can get revives on Acts 1-4 but with much lower %, you get revives from 4h Crystals, you still have the Halls of Healing (is this the right name? I dont really remember) and you have the deals they put on store sometimes where you get a ton of revives, heals and energy refills with 300 units, which you can get pretty easily.

    And I didnt even consider the units yet, so I dont think anybody is going to go low on revives, but you will have to obtain them from other ways instead of just auto farming Act 2 and 3, and you will have to prepare yourself more for each impossible fight so you are more efficient than ever, and I was preparing myself to do the Carina Challenges 3 and some of the Carina Challenges 2, I am affected by this change but the fact that Im not able to farm revives, what Im going to do? Just farm them from other areas and wait a little more to do that content.

    And the point that people make about "Yeah but top players need to do it as soon as possible", dude, Kabam waited a ton to drop this Everest Content, you think you wont have time to farm units and 4h Crystals and Revives for the next Everest Content? You will have time enough, Im pretty sure, and If you are at the top players, then you dont need really revives because you have most of the content done, and the one they release usually is not that hard to need more than 10 revives maybe? And thats already a ton of revives.

    I think people is looking at this change like they are not getting any revives besides the ones they buy, when that is not going to be the case.

    And I was watching ContestChampion and BG himself talked about this, he said that he did all the content this years without the revive farming, so he thinks that we will be fine, and he is a F2P player, Im not gonna talk about this anymore because I think if you really think about this, you will notice that its not really that big of a deal, makes things slower but not that much
  • TruthseekerTruthseeker Member Posts: 333 ★★
    edited March 2023
    When is it coming? And are drop rates already down?
    A.k.a how many days exactly do i have to farm for abyss last 2 paths?
    P.s How is the world would i be able to do abyss with like 30 revives if i cant farm more? I am really worried i may never be able to explore abyss now. I will not put 5000 units into abyss when there will be like 2 generic awakenings and a CHOOSE THE CHAMP YOU WANT crystal for 5000 in july or october.
  • MackeyMackey Member Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★
    edited March 2023
    I've been thinking and what about introducing a new questing area in game, let's call it "Mythic Quests" for the purpose of the thought, Any new everest content that gets released going forward is labelled a Mythic Quest, Kabam also introduce Mythic revives and potions, the player is only able to revive or heal in these Quests with these revives/potions, these items are only useable in Mythic Quests and nowhere else. Then change the rewards for this new Apocethary to award Mythic potions and revives to the players (also, of course sell these items for units too).

    This way you stop the "spamming" of everest content going forward while still keeping the effort made in this new apocethary relevant.

    As it stands the players who haven't done the eop gauntlet etc etc will be at a bit of a disadvantage when they do go to do the content as theyve not being able to farm them revives like those who have already done it that way. If something like I suggested was to happen the current existing content that many have "spammed their way through" would still be an option for them to do the same way.

    Everyone wins 🤷‍♂️
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