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It’s enough, it needs to stop

J4mmy_d0dger123J4mmy_d0dger123 Posts: 288 ★★
edited August 2023 in General Discussion
The AI is too advanced to be reliably dealt with

You can mainly see this in Battlegrounds, where the AI is made so annoyingly good, that you have to struggle to survive.

this might sound like I’m ‘just a bad player’

But I assure you that is not the case: it’s too much. Playing against Nick Fury I heavy, and I śhït you not, he parries my heavy, who in the game team controls AI behaviour? Seriously?

The AI does not allow you to punish any sort of attack

You are not allowed to punish a special, because you’ll get dexed

You’re not allowed to punish a heavy because you’ll get dexed

You’re not allowed to punish ANYTHING Because the AI will just counteract the behaviour.

I mean really, you can’t punish anything, it’s just molestation every single match, it’s not fun

It’s getting annoying
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    MackeyMackey Posts: 1,567 ★★★★★
    Manup456 said:

    The ai has been ridiculous and it started when 7* were introduced because they did something if they want to admit it or not.

    That's when I noticed too, 7* champs seem to be very passive
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    ahmynutsahmynuts Posts: 6,061 ★★★★★
    edited August 2023
    Notice how anyone who complains about the AI changing almost NEVER specifies what champs they are using, what champs they are fighting against, what star level they are, and what nodes are active. All the things that actually are the factors that play into how the AI behaves.

    Also very disgusting choice of words in your post OP I hope this gets taken down.
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    ahmynutsahmynuts Posts: 6,061 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    ahmynuts said:

    Notice how anyone who complains about the AI changing almost NEVER specifies what champs they are using, what champs they are fighting against, what star level they are, and what nodes are active. All the things that actually are the factors that play into how the AI behaves.

    Also very disgusting choice of words in your post OP I hope this gets taken down.

    That's because it doesn't matter. A certain amount can be accounted for with Masteries, in terms of things like Stun recovery, but it's categorically and undoubtedly behaving in ways that aren't rational. Blocking the second before you hit (including with Strikers), refusing to bait for sometimes a minute or more, whiffing, reaching far beyond what their reach is, speeding up or slowing down depending on what you're trying to do, the list goes on.
    I certainly don't engage in conspiracies about them changing it deliberately, and I don't subscribe to the "Kabam doesn't care." way of thinking, but anyone that plays the game can clearly see it's much more ramped up. The speed alone is different.
    Mackey said:

    ahmynuts said:

    Notice how anyone who complains about the AI changing almost NEVER specifies what champs they are using, what champs they are fighting against, what star level they are, and what nodes are active. All the things that actually are the factors that play into how the AI behaves.

    Also very disgusting choice of words in your post OP I hope this gets taken down.

    Did you ever stop and consider that people may not say them things as it doesn't matter where in the game you're playing?

    It amazes me how many people jump to that same argument you've made there without considering all possible reasons as to why, first.

    But .. here goes ... when it happens to me it tends to be ANY champ against ANY other champ, irrespective of nodes and/or game mode.... is that better dude?
    It is absolutely foolish, misleading and close-minded of the both of you to even suggest that anything i said has nothing to do with how the AI in the game functions regardless of what bugs are present. I didn't even mention the differing AI profiles from gamemode to gamemode which also influence how it works. I stated that barely anyone ever takes these things into consideration before posting stuff. We are playing MCOC there are a lot of bugs and I'm sure the AI has many. But not everything is a bug, take some time to "stop and consider" things before you speak. Dont dismiss someone just because you're heated and disagree. We are all correct and are on the same side. The AI functions a certain way because of certain things and also has a high probability of being bugged. Both things can be true at the same time
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    MackeyMackey Posts: 1,567 ★★★★★
    ahmynuts said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    ahmynuts said:

    Notice how anyone who complains about the AI changing almost NEVER specifies what champs they are using, what champs they are fighting against, what star level they are, and what nodes are active. All the things that actually are the factors that play into how the AI behaves.

    Also very disgusting choice of words in your post OP I hope this gets taken down.

    That's because it doesn't matter. A certain amount can be accounted for with Masteries, in terms of things like Stun recovery, but it's categorically and undoubtedly behaving in ways that aren't rational. Blocking the second before you hit (including with Strikers), refusing to bait for sometimes a minute or more, whiffing, reaching far beyond what their reach is, speeding up or slowing down depending on what you're trying to do, the list goes on.
    I certainly don't engage in conspiracies about them changing it deliberately, and I don't subscribe to the "Kabam doesn't care." way of thinking, but anyone that plays the game can clearly see it's much more ramped up. The speed alone is different.
    Mackey said:

    ahmynuts said:

    Notice how anyone who complains about the AI changing almost NEVER specifies what champs they are using, what champs they are fighting against, what star level they are, and what nodes are active. All the things that actually are the factors that play into how the AI behaves.

    Also very disgusting choice of words in your post OP I hope this gets taken down.

    Did you ever stop and consider that people may not say them things as it doesn't matter where in the game you're playing?

    It amazes me how many people jump to that same argument you've made there without considering all possible reasons as to why, first.

    But .. here goes ... when it happens to me it tends to be ANY champ against ANY other champ, irrespective of nodes and/or game mode.... is that better dude?
    It is absolutely foolish, misleading and close-minded of the both of you to even suggest that anything i said has nothing to do with how the AI in the game functions regardless of what bugs are present. I didn't even mention the differing AI profiles from gamemode to gamemode which also influence how it works. I stated that barely anyone ever takes these things into consideration before posting stuff. We are playing MCOC there are a lot of bugs and I'm sure the AI has many. But not everything is a bug, take some time to "stop and consider" things before you speak. Dont dismiss someone just because you're heated and disagree. We are all correct and are on the same side. The AI functions a certain way because of certain things and also has a high probability of being bugged. Both things can be true at the same time
    I'm not dismissing anything you've said at all, I'm stating that it's happening everywhere in game and therefore taking note of which champ I used and what the nodes were is utterly pointless, the people who find the bugs etc and investigate them internally can literally take their pick of a mode and a champ and then compare the AI behaviour from now to, let's say, 2 years prior.

    Also, I really do not like saying this over and over again but it is right .... the very last thing on my mind when I'm playing this game is trying to identify a bug, or rather, try to make it easier for the Devs to recreate that bug. It's literally not something I think about until after the fact, even if I note a bug mid fight ... my priority is getting through that fight then if I feel the need to, come here and report the potential bug for the people who own and operate this game to look into
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    0_Alph40_Alph4 Posts: 102 ★
    I feel you bro for me it's every single mordor, I've been timed out by him countless times becuase he refuses to through specials and he's always blocking
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    JustWantTheRewardsJustWantTheRewards Posts: 442 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    ahmynuts said:

    Notice how anyone who complains about the AI changing almost NEVER specifies what champs they are using, what champs they are fighting against, what star level they are, and what nodes are active. All the things that actually are the factors that play into how the AI behaves.

    Also very disgusting choice of words in your post OP I hope this gets taken down.

    That's because it doesn't matter.
    Any information you can give does matter. What does the AI being faster mean? Like the AI is making decisions more often or the defender is literally moving faster Superior Kang style? Same with "reaching far beyond what their reach is" which sounds more like a hitbox issue than anything AI related.

    I'm not saying these issues don't exist, but I haven't experienced anything out of the ordinary on the AI side. I have experienced weird issues, most recently seeing Shuri's sp2 get blocked after making contact with the first 2 hits, but nothing I would call an AI issue. That's why describing issues in detail is important. What one person may describe as an AI issue can be (and usually is) something else entirely. Summing it all up as "AI needs fixing" doesn't do much aside from giving Miike yet another AI related thread to close for lacking information.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,265 ★★★★★
    JustWantTheRewards said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    ahmynuts said:

    Notice how anyone who complains about the AI changing almost NEVER specifies what champs they are using, what champs they are fighting against, what star level they are, and what nodes are active. All the things that actually are the factors that play into how the AI behaves.

    Also very disgusting choice of words in your post OP I hope this gets taken down.

    That's because it doesn't matter.
    Any information you can give does matter. What does the AI being faster mean? Like the AI is making decisions more often or the defender is literally moving faster Superior Kang style? Same with "reaching far beyond what their reach is" which sounds more like a hitbox issue than anything AI related.

    I'm not saying these issues don't exist, but I haven't experienced anything out of the ordinary on the AI side. I have experienced weird issues, most recently seeing Shuri's sp2 get blocked after making contact with the first 2 hits, but nothing I would call an AI issue. That's why describing issues in detail is important. What one person may describe as an AI issue can be (and usually is) something else entirely. Summing it all up as "AI needs fixing" doesn't do much aside from giving Miike yet another AI related thread to close for lacking information.
    I meant it doesn't matter what Champ you're using, etc. It's consistent in BGs, I've seen it in Act 7, it's in the Arena...you name it.
    I don't mean the information doesn't matter. I'm aware of how the process of reporting works. I also know that the AI issues have been posted about for years. So while we're here we might as well discuss it amongst ourselves.
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    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,372 ★★★★★
    Same here, AI refuses to throw their specials for 20-30 seconds, they hold block and as soon as I dash in they let go and block again and I get parried, champs like Bishop throwing sp1 into my block even though I'm holding block, champs like Chavez randomly throwing heavy attacks when I haven't even tapped block. Those are the main things I've noticed, they can make BGs very annoying.
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    BeastDadBeastDad Posts: 1,432 ★★★★★
    In addition, modders are back in force this month.

    Unplayable.
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    Aomine_Daiki10Aomine_Daiki10 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★★
    If the Ai can just throw their specials am ok with every other thing honestly.
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    Vegeta9001Vegeta9001 Posts: 1,348 ★★★★
    edited August 2023
    Played 6 games of Bgs today, faced a modder, 2 infinite loading screen forfeits, an insta forfeit win and two matches of dancing around AI watching the awful protectron timer and praying AI launch a special at any point. They usually hold it right til protectron is about to expire then launch it.

    Think I'll hold off for a couple weeks, this season ain't it.
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    Dirty_DozzDirty_Dozz Posts: 310 ★★★
    Yeah, I've noticed this for awhile. It's especially fun in BGs when you're trying to bait a special for upwards of 30 seconds, wasting time you could otherwise be using to actually do damage.

    In a handful of modes lately too (noticing it a lot in Incursions) they're extremely passive, but it's not consistent. When they have Hercs Infuriate debuff, usually you can keep dexing back and light intercepting, but a lot of time they don't dash in, they just stand there blocking. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the Infuriate debuff?

    FWIW, it's workaroundable in most modes, as there aren't many Champs that require the AI to cooperate with you. It's just frustrating that fights that should be quick are taking ages because the AI would rather sit there and block than do anything meaningful.
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    ahmynutsahmynuts Posts: 6,061 ★★★★★
    Panchulon21 said:

    ahmynuts said:

    Notice how anyone who complains about the AI changing almost NEVER specifies what champs they are using, what champs they are fighting against, what star level they are, and what nodes are active. All the things that actually are the factors that play into how the AI behaves.

    Also very disgusting choice of words in your post OP I hope this gets taken down.

    1.) grow up they’re just words
    2.) yeah I’ve noticed a change in the AI behavior; champions don’t matter, nodes don’t matter. Baiting has been a problem for a while, you have to sit there and dex back and forth until the AI decides to throw a special (this is ok for a few seconds but become a problem when your DEXed enough that you get backed into a wall) It doesn’t matter in story/EQ but in BG and maybe alliance war where time is or can be key, it matters a lot. The ability to intercept is also a problem because the AI is super passive. As GW mentioned I’m not into the conspiracy theories that Kabam did it on purpose and quietly but it could be something in the game engine they haven’t even noticed that is changing the AI.
    I didnt dismiss 2 as a valid perspective. This game is massive and Miike has stated in the past that practically anything they do to the game can have unintended knock on effects that they arent immediately aware of. I was pointing out how people immediately jump to things being bugs instead of considering every factor before they come here and cry bug. How is Kabam supposed to get anything done when they're looking for information and half the bug threads they're looking at are just people not being able to read Icemans abilities correctly
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    ahmynutsahmynuts Posts: 6,061 ★★★★★
    edited August 2023
    Bwer777_TakeItEasy said:

    @GroundedWisdom @Mackey and @J4mmy_d0dger123 are just saying they’ve noticed in increase in A.I. difficulty lately in all content and you @ahmynuts were definitely not coming in here agreeing with them but making fun of them with a meme you thought was funny. Like I get harder content makes for harder A.I. but it’s been happening in BG’s too

    It was funny though lol. And again i didnt really agree or disagree, nor did i dismiss any perspectives with my comment. I pointed out that not everything is a bug and sometimes the game just works weird due to so many factors that people never think about before coming here and crying bug
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    ahmynutsahmynuts Posts: 6,061 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    JustWantTheRewards said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    ahmynuts said:

    Notice how anyone who complains about the AI changing almost NEVER specifies what champs they are using, what champs they are fighting against, what star level they are, and what nodes are active. All the things that actually are the factors that play into how the AI behaves.

    Also very disgusting choice of words in your post OP I hope this gets taken down.

    That's because it doesn't matter.
    Any information you can give does matter. What does the AI being faster mean? Like the AI is making decisions more often or the defender is literally moving faster Superior Kang style? Same with "reaching far beyond what their reach is" which sounds more like a hitbox issue than anything AI related.

    I'm not saying these issues don't exist, but I haven't experienced anything out of the ordinary on the AI side. I have experienced weird issues, most recently seeing Shuri's sp2 get blocked after making contact with the first 2 hits, but nothing I would call an AI issue. That's why describing issues in detail is important. What one person may describe as an AI issue can be (and usually is) something else entirely. Summing it all up as "AI needs fixing" doesn't do much aside from giving Miike yet another AI related thread to close for lacking information.
    I meant it doesn't matter what Champ you're using, etc. It's consistent in BGs, I've seen it in Act 7, it's in the Arena...you name it.
    I don't mean the information doesn't matter. I'm aware of how the process of reporting works. I also know that the AI issues have been posted about for years. So while we're here we might as well discuss it amongst ourselves.
    I dont disagree with you. I play the game and experience these things too. Everyone just got so extremally heated over a meme i sent and that i pointed out it could theoretically be because of game mechanics whether they are intentional or not and not because of a bug. I just wanted to provide a second perspective so this didnt become another echo chamber where everyone just agrees and then that's it thats the thread. I wasnt trying to fight everyone
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,265 ★★★★★
    ahmynuts said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    JustWantTheRewards said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    ahmynuts said:

    Notice how anyone who complains about the AI changing almost NEVER specifies what champs they are using, what champs they are fighting against, what star level they are, and what nodes are active. All the things that actually are the factors that play into how the AI behaves.

    Also very disgusting choice of words in your post OP I hope this gets taken down.

    That's because it doesn't matter.
    Any information you can give does matter. What does the AI being faster mean? Like the AI is making decisions more often or the defender is literally moving faster Superior Kang style? Same with "reaching far beyond what their reach is" which sounds more like a hitbox issue than anything AI related.

    I'm not saying these issues don't exist, but I haven't experienced anything out of the ordinary on the AI side. I have experienced weird issues, most recently seeing Shuri's sp2 get blocked after making contact with the first 2 hits, but nothing I would call an AI issue. That's why describing issues in detail is important. What one person may describe as an AI issue can be (and usually is) something else entirely. Summing it all up as "AI needs fixing" doesn't do much aside from giving Miike yet another AI related thread to close for lacking information.
    I meant it doesn't matter what Champ you're using, etc. It's consistent in BGs, I've seen it in Act 7, it's in the Arena...you name it.
    I don't mean the information doesn't matter. I'm aware of how the process of reporting works. I also know that the AI issues have been posted about for years. So while we're here we might as well discuss it amongst ourselves.
    I dont disagree with you. I play the game and experience these things too. Everyone just got so extremally heated over a meme i sent and that i pointed out it could theoretically be because of game mechanics whether they are intentional or not and not because of a bug. I just wanted to provide a second perspective so this didnt become another echo chamber where everyone just agrees and then that's it thats the thread. I wasnt trying to fight everyone
    It's fine. I suppose frustrations are high. I've been cursing and swearing Match after Match in Silver 1 because the AI automatically Intercepts any Heavy I attempt, and you can't even get a Combo off before Protection kicks in again. Sorry if you became the brunt.
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