Battlegrounds needs balancing

BringPopcorn · August 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree there. They do matter. The Players coming up now will be the competition tomorrow. Their long-term participation matters. If you're going to disregard them and their issues, I'd rather you just remove them from BGs completely because it's just plain wrong to act like their experience is trivial.

They would have to stop all content, not give the top anything to do for a whole year for them to catch up, unfortunately that's what it is.. playing catch up. Same reason why you became Paragon as of lately, access to better rewards and materials to catch up.

Pikok · August 2023

Lol I remember few seasons ago GW was a TB. And had completly different opinion about bg and he defended bg matchmaking. Now he advanced in prestige and suddenly system is bad. Hmm. What happened?

GroundedWisdom · August 2023

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.
mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.
You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
So now we've come full circle to the topic I've debated you on in the past.

Progression.

If someone's spending power is diminished in the BG store, that is ONLY that individuals fault. As you well know, story content is targeted for progression. It's why every progressive title has a tie to story content completion.

BGs is a competitive mode, against everyone who plays the game, meant to reward those (very nicely) who can climb the highest. Although you can choose to spend those rewarded tokens on items to rank up champs, it is not, and never has been, intended to be a path to progression where everyone gets 7*r2 champs from the rewards.

So here we are again, reiterating that BGs is for everyone, and everyone is given the opportunity to compete. If you hit a wall based on the strength of your account, you need to make a choice:

A) Be content with the wall you hit

Take advantage of the countless other game modes to advance your account while continuing to make a best effort in BGs.

Bottom line, everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this game. What you do with those opportunities is a matter of choice though, and not one that should be rewarded if you choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given.
This has nothing to do with what I said at all.
Your concern is UC,Cav,TB will quit the game mode because they can't succeed in a competition, what I am going to say might sound horrible; but do you think active Paragons who in a way set the pace of the game really care if UC and Cavs quit BGs? We never face them anyway.
I said they will stop caring about BGs. If you think the game mode doesn't depend on a range of Players for Matchmaking, you would be wrong.
mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.
mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.
You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
So now we've come full circle to the topic I've debated you on in the past.

Progression.

If someone's spending power is diminished in the BG store, that is ONLY that individuals fault. As you well know, story content is targeted for progression. It's why every progressive title has a tie to story content completion.

BGs is a competitive mode, against everyone who plays the game, meant to reward those (very nicely) who can climb the highest. Although you can choose to spend those rewarded tokens on items to rank up champs, it is not, and never has been, intended to be a path to progression where everyone gets 7*r2 champs from the rewards.

So here we are again, reiterating that BGs is for everyone, and everyone is given the opportunity to compete. If you hit a wall based on the strength of your account, you need to make a choice:

A) Be content with the wall you hit

Take advantage of the countless other game modes to advance your account while continuing to make a best effort in BGs.

Bottom line, everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this game. What you do with those opportunities is a matter of choice though, and not one that should be rewarded if you choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given.
This has nothing to do with what I said at all.
Your very first sentence begs to differ.

"No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever."
Yes, people who are trying to advance their Accounts are going to use them to hit Cav/Tb/Para. Not hoard them. That's logical.
And those "people" should explore story content rather than complain about hitting a wall in a competitive PvP mode.

Those "people" shouldn't be included then told not to play it. That wall shouldn't come at the beginning of the competition. That competition shouldn't involve placing them in Matches that are 3x their Roster strength, multiplied by the Nodes that increase their strength, and then have the expectation that they need to string nothing but consecutive Wins to advance.
Spare me the lecture about what people should and shouldn't do. It's a garbage design currently.

GroundedWisdom · August 2023

The top players complain because someone lower than them is getting something, then the competition is turned into something that only benefits them. I've seen it all before. I'm just not staying silent like I did with War.

BringPopcorn · August 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
The top players complain because someone lower than them is getting something, then the competition is turned into something that only benefits them. I've seen it all before. I'm just not staying silent like I did with War.

You already read their decision, less experienced players will not move up easily. You shouldn't worry since you hace 7-8 years experience.

Go_To · August 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
Okay. Hypothetical. Not an exact scenario, but we'll run with it.
Player A works their ass off and comes up short because the Champs they're coming up against stop their skill from doing enough Damage within the 2 minutes.
Player B puts in minimal effort and relies on the overpowered strength of their Champs and wins.

Who has earned it more?

It doesn’t come

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.
mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.
You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
So now we've come full circle to the topic I've debated you on in the past.

Progression.

If someone's spending power is diminished in the BG store, that is ONLY that individuals fault. As you well know, story content is targeted for progression. It's why every progressive title has a tie to story content completion.

BGs is a competitive mode, against everyone who plays the game, meant to reward those (very nicely) who can climb the highest. Although you can choose to spend those rewarded tokens on items to rank up champs, it is not, and never has been, intended to be a path to progression where everyone gets 7*r2 champs from the rewards.

So here we are again, reiterating that BGs is for everyone, and everyone is given the opportunity to compete. If you hit a wall based on the strength of your account, you need to make a choice:

A) Be content with the wall you hit

Take advantage of the countless other game modes to advance your account while continuing to make a best effort in BGs.

Bottom line, everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this game. What you do with those opportunities is a matter of choice though, and not one that should be rewarded if you choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given.
This has nothing to do with what I said at all.
Your concern is UC,Cav,TB will quit the game mode because they can't succeed in a competition, what I am going to say might sound horrible; but do you think active Paragons who in a way set the pace of the game really care if UC and Cavs quit BGs? We never face them anyway.
I said they will stop caring about BGs. If you think the game mode doesn't depend on a range of Players for Matchmaking, you would be wrong.
mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.
mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.
You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
So now we've come full circle to the topic I've debated you on in the past.

Progression.

If someone's spending power is diminished in the BG store, that is ONLY that individuals fault. As you well know, story content is targeted for progression. It's why every progressive title has a tie to story content completion.

BGs is a competitive mode, against everyone who plays the game, meant to reward those (very nicely) who can climb the highest. Although you can choose to spend those rewarded tokens on items to rank up champs, it is not, and never has been, intended to be a path to progression where everyone gets 7*r2 champs from the rewards.

So here we are again, reiterating that BGs is for everyone, and everyone is given the opportunity to compete. If you hit a wall based on the strength of your account, you need to make a choice:

A) Be content with the wall you hit

Take advantage of the countless other game modes to advance your account while continuing to make a best effort in BGs.

Bottom line, everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this game. What you do with those opportunities is a matter of choice though, and not one that should be rewarded if you choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given.
This has nothing to do with what I said at all.
Your very first sentence begs to differ.

"No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever."
Yes, people who are trying to advance their Accounts are going to use them to hit Cav/Tb/Para. Not hoard them. That's logical.
And those "people" should explore story content rather than complain about hitting a wall in a competitive PvP mode.
Those "people" shouldn't be included then told not to play it. That wall shouldn't come at the beginning of the competition. That competition shouldn't involve placing them in Matches that are 3x their Roster strength, multiplied by the Nodes that increase their strength, and then have the expectation that they need to string nothing but consecutive Wins to advance.
Spare me the lecture about what people should and shouldn't do. It's a garbage design currently.

It doesn’t come at the start of the VT. They don’t get thrown to paragons right away. Eventually the pool will shrink the higher they go and that’s how pvp is supposed to work. The better players/larger accounts work their way to the top. This isn’t some injustice against uncollecteds.

Go_To · August 2023

@GroundedWisdom
I’m curious. You have a lot to say about how bad the current by matchmaking is. My question is this. How would you fix it? What’s your plan to make everything “work”

GroundedWisdom · August 2023

Go_To said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Okay. Hypothetical. Not an exact scenario, but we'll run with it.
Player A works their ass off and comes up short because the Champs they're coming up against stop their skill from doing enough Damage within the 2 minutes.
Player B puts in minimal effort and relies on the overpowered strength of their Champs and wins.

Who has earned it more?
It doesn’t come
GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.
mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.
You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
So now we've come full circle to the topic I've debated you on in the past.

Progression.

If someone's spending power is diminished in the BG store, that is ONLY that individuals fault. As you well know, story content is targeted for progression. It's why every progressive title has a tie to story content completion.

BGs is a competitive mode, against everyone who plays the game, meant to reward those (very nicely) who can climb the highest. Although you can choose to spend those rewarded tokens on items to rank up champs, it is not, and never has been, intended to be a path to progression where everyone gets 7*r2 champs from the rewards.

So here we are again, reiterating that BGs is for everyone, and everyone is given the opportunity to compete. If you hit a wall based on the strength of your account, you need to make a choice:

A) Be content with the wall you hit

Take advantage of the countless other game modes to advance your account while continuing to make a best effort in BGs.

Bottom line, everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this game. What you do with those opportunities is a matter of choice though, and not one that should be rewarded if you choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given.
This has nothing to do with what I said at all.
Your concern is UC,Cav,TB will quit the game mode because they can't succeed in a competition, what I am going to say might sound horrible; but do you think active Paragons who in a way set the pace of the game really care if UC and Cavs quit BGs? We never face them anyway.
I said they will stop caring about BGs. If you think the game mode doesn't depend on a range of Players for Matchmaking, you would be wrong.
mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.
mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.
You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
So now we've come full circle to the topic I've debated you on in the past.

Progression.

If someone's spending power is diminished in the BG store, that is ONLY that individuals fault. As you well know, story content is targeted for progression. It's why every progressive title has a tie to story content completion.

BGs is a competitive mode, against everyone who plays the game, meant to reward those (very nicely) who can climb the highest. Although you can choose to spend those rewarded tokens on items to rank up champs, it is not, and never has been, intended to be a path to progression where everyone gets 7*r2 champs from the rewards.

So here we are again, reiterating that BGs is for everyone, and everyone is given the opportunity to compete. If you hit a wall based on the strength of your account, you need to make a choice:

A) Be content with the wall you hit

Take advantage of the countless other game modes to advance your account while continuing to make a best effort in BGs.

Bottom line, everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this game. What you do with those opportunities is a matter of choice though, and not one that should be rewarded if you choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given.
This has nothing to do with what I said at all.
Your very first sentence begs to differ.

"No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever."
Yes, people who are trying to advance their Accounts are going to use them to hit Cav/Tb/Para. Not hoard them. That's logical.
And those "people" should explore story content rather than complain about hitting a wall in a competitive PvP mode.
Those "people" shouldn't be included then told not to play it. That wall shouldn't come at the beginning of the competition. That competition shouldn't involve placing them in Matches that are 3x their Roster strength, multiplied by the Nodes that increase their strength, and then have the expectation that they need to string nothing but consecutive Wins to advance.
Spare me the lecture about what people should and shouldn't do. It's a garbage design currently.
It doesn’t come at the start of the VT. They don’t get thrown to paragons right away. Eventually the pool will shrink the higher they go and that’s how pvp is supposed to work. The better players/larger accounts work their way to the top. This isn’t some injustice against uncollecteds.

I know, I'm quite aware. I fought for them to have that. Which is why I'm not arguing against them coming up against stiff competition eventually. What my concern is, is moving forward.

GroundedWisdom · August 2023

Go_To said:
@GroundedWisdom
I’m curious. You have a lot to say about how bad the current by matchmaking is. My question is this. How would you fix it? What’s your plan to make everything “work”

The changes were fine before this Season. With the introduction of seeding, the increased Tokens, and the trajectory we had, it would have balanced itself out. Lower Players wouldn't have been able to bypass the other Players in Plat as easily because it would have been all of the GC.
What we have now is just overkill, and it's needless.

BringPopcorn · September 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

Go_To said:
@GroundedWisdom
I’m curious. You have a lot to say about how bad the current by matchmaking is. My question is this. How would you fix it? What’s your plan to make everything “work”
The changes were fine before this Season. With the introduction of seeding, the increased Tokens, and the trajectory we had, it would have balanced itself out. Lower Players wouldn't have been able to bypass the other Players in Plat as easily because it would have been all of the GC.
What we have now is just overkill, and it's needless.

Basically the 2 season you made it to GC are the ideal ones.
Seeding will be introduced next season, now it is data collection time, and seeding won't do anything for lower accounts. Seeding is used to make the load lighter, someone who makes it to GC every season should not start in Bronze. Like I said before, someone's roof is someone else's floor in a ladder system. With seeding some people will move up and some will stay in their bracket beating people that move up.
Everyone plays under the same rules and same ammount of wins needed to move up. There is no overkill, it just separates people able to string wins and people who can't. The rules are the same for everyone.

JT_Supreme · September 2023

Gc needs balancing. Jk but the fun ends once I get to gc and it’s whale central.

GroundedWisdom · September 2023

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Go_To said:
@GroundedWisdom
I’m curious. You have a lot to say about how bad the current by matchmaking is. My question is this. How would you fix it? What’s your plan to make everything “work”
The changes were fine before this Season. With the introduction of seeding, the increased Tokens, and the trajectory we had, it would have balanced itself out. Lower Players wouldn't have been able to bypass the other Players in Plat as easily because it would have been all of the GC.
What we have now is just overkill, and it's needless.
Basically the 2 season you made it to GC are the ideal ones.
Seeding will be introduced next season, now it is data collection time, and seeding won't do anything for lower accounts. Seeding is used to make the load lighter, someone who makes it to GC every season should not start in Bronze. Like I said before, someone's roof is someone else's floor in a ladder system. With seeding some people will move up and some will stay in their bracket beating people that move up.
Everyone plays under the same rules and same ammount of wins needed to move up. There is no overkill, it just separates people able to string wins and people who can't. The rules are the same for everyone.

You keep coming back at me with my own personal situation, and it's literally not what I'm talking about at all.
Everyone under the same rules is moot. No one said otherwise. I'm talking about the current Season and the effect of the changes.
If you're going to keep repeating the same redundant points and comments about my personal progress, I'm going to stop responding.

DNA3000 · September 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree there. They do matter. The Players coming up now will be the competition tomorrow.

Only if they are willing to learn to be competitors, and compete with everyone. If they are, great. Take the P3 rewards and use them to get better. If they are not, then they are stubborn and needy and want to eliminate the competitive part of the competitive game mode, and the game would be better off with them grinding arena.

GroundedWisdom said:
If you're going to disregard them and their issues, I'd rather you just remove them from BGs completely because it's just plain wrong to act like their experience is trivial.

I think you're going to need to discuss that with them first, but when they elect you as their representative then I'll personally push the button that ejects all of them.

Keep in mind, by "them" I do not mean lower tier players. There's tons of them in Battlegrounds. The only way Paragons can be beating up Cavs and TBs in Diamond is if tons and tons and tons of Cavs and TBs are getting to Diamond. We aren't all beating up on Bob, the unluckiest Cav in the game. I have no problem with any lower tier player who is playing the game, perhaps frustrated with facing monsters in the higher tiers, but then takes it upon themselves to grow their roster and improve their skills and move up on their own effort. Hate me, hate my roster, hate my eight years of experience and practice, and then go get some of that yourself. Put a DNA poster on a dartboard and throw Elektra shurikens at it all day while browsing auntm.ai. Its all cool with me.

We're talking about the (probably) very tiny minority of players who think they get to write the rules of engagement and if the game doesn't serve up hand picked opponents for them they will take their ball and go home. The game mode doesn't need those players and doesn't benefit from them if it has them. Battleground is a competition, and it needs competitors. Not players who need a carefully curated path to the top of the competition.

BringPopcorn · September 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Go_To said:
@GroundedWisdom
I’m curious. You have a lot to say about how bad the current by matchmaking is. My question is this. How would you fix it? What’s your plan to make everything “work”
The changes were fine before this Season. With the introduction of seeding, the increased Tokens, and the trajectory we had, it would have balanced itself out. Lower Players wouldn't have been able to bypass the other Players in Plat as easily because it would have been all of the GC.
What we have now is just overkill, and it's needless.
Basically the 2 season you made it to GC are the ideal ones.
Seeding will be introduced next season, now it is data collection time, and seeding won't do anything for lower accounts. Seeding is used to make the load lighter, someone who makes it to GC every season should not start in Bronze. Like I said before, someone's roof is someone else's floor in a ladder system. With seeding some people will move up and some will stay in their bracket beating people that move up.
Everyone plays under the same rules and same ammount of wins needed to move up. There is no overkill, it just separates people able to string wins and people who can't. The rules are the same for everyone.
You keep coming back at me with my own personal situation, and it's literally not what I'm talking about at all.
Everyone under the same rules is moot. No one said otherwise. I'm talking about the current Season and the effect of the changes.
If you're going to keep repeating the same redundant points and comments about my personal progress, I'm going to stop responding.

I keep going back to you cause as DNA said you are not a spokesman for other people. You can only have an educated opinion based on your experience. The reason why I am going at you is because it differs so much from my own experience.
The same rules issue applied for 1 single reason, you were able to reach GC on seasond 8 and 9, so did a lot of people who are today in GC and were in GC on seasons 8 and 9, why is it that some people are able and you are not to the point of wanting to quit? Seeding is comming, you should play your hardest to try to start as high as possible the next season, yet you want to quit because you are not winning as much.

GroundedWisdom · September 2023

I have respect for DNA and his views, but we don't agree on all things. I speak for what I feel is important.
I don't need to be told what to do with my own experience, and I don't really appreciate my points being diverted over and over to my personal situation. I was clear about that. I'm not responding to you anymore.

SamMarquez · September 2023

Win streak plays a part in match ups as well the higher win streak you are at you will be given higher accounts to face.

DNA3000 · September 2023

SamMarquez said:
Win streak plays a part in match ups as well the higher win streak you are at you will be given higher accounts to face.

That has not been my experience in any BG season including this one. I was just in BG a few hours ago climbing up from P1 to D2 and if anything my match ups were getting easier the longer my win streak went on. Conversely yesterday I did have two losses in a row, both against significantly strong accounts, which means losing and breaking my streak did not cause my matches to drop in difficulty any more than winning multiple matches in a row today served to increase my opponent difficulty.

Unless you mean in GC. In VT, I have never seen this. In GC matches are computed by ELO, and so the more you win the higher your rating, and thus the higher in rating your opponents will be. The more you win in GC, the stronger your opponents will become, because in GC it is all ratings driven. In VT, the match maker is completely blind to your win/loss record as far as I'm aware.

BringPopcorn · September 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
I have respect for DNA and his views, but we don't agree on all things. I speak for what I feel is important.
I don't need to be told what to do with my own experience, and I don't really appreciate my points being diverted over and over to my personal situation. I was clear about that. I'm not responding to you anymore.

I can live with that, good luck on your crusade to make BGs easier for you.

mgj0630 · September 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.
mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.
You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
So now we've come full circle to the topic I've debated you on in the past.

Progression.

If someone's spending power is diminished in the BG store, that is ONLY that individuals fault. As you well know, story content is targeted for progression. It's why every progressive title has a tie to story content completion.

BGs is a competitive mode, against everyone who plays the game, meant to reward those (very nicely) who can climb the highest. Although you can choose to spend those rewarded tokens on items to rank up champs, it is not, and never has been, intended to be a path to progression where everyone gets 7*r2 champs from the rewards.

So here we are again, reiterating that BGs is for everyone, and everyone is given the opportunity to compete. If you hit a wall based on the strength of your account, you need to make a choice:

A) Be content with the wall you hit

Take advantage of the countless other game modes to advance your account while continuing to make a best effort in BGs.

Bottom line, everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this game. What you do with those opportunities is a matter of choice though, and not one that should be rewarded if you choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given.
This has nothing to do with what I said at all.
Your concern is UC,Cav,TB will quit the game mode because they can't succeed in a competition, what I am going to say might sound horrible; but do you think active Paragons who in a way set the pace of the game really care if UC and Cavs quit BGs? We never face them anyway.
I said they will stop caring about BGs. If you think the game mode doesn't depend on a range of Players for Matchmaking, you would be wrong.
mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.
mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

mgj0630 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.
You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
So now we've come full circle to the topic I've debated you on in the past.

Progression.

If someone's spending power is diminished in the BG store, that is ONLY that individuals fault. As you well know, story content is targeted for progression. It's why every progressive title has a tie to story content completion.

BGs is a competitive mode, against everyone who plays the game, meant to reward those (very nicely) who can climb the highest. Although you can choose to spend those rewarded tokens on items to rank up champs, it is not, and never has been, intended to be a path to progression where everyone gets 7*r2 champs from the rewards.

So here we are again, reiterating that BGs is for everyone, and everyone is given the opportunity to compete. If you hit a wall based on the strength of your account, you need to make a choice:

A) Be content with the wall you hit

Take advantage of the countless other game modes to advance your account while continuing to make a best effort in BGs.

Bottom line, everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this game. What you do with those opportunities is a matter of choice though, and not one that should be rewarded if you choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given.
This has nothing to do with what I said at all.
Your very first sentence begs to differ.

"No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever."
Yes, people who are trying to advance their Accounts are going to use them to hit Cav/Tb/Para. Not hoard them. That's logical.
And those "people" should explore story content rather than complain about hitting a wall in a competitive PvP mode.
Those "people" shouldn't be included then told not to play it. That wall shouldn't come at the beginning of the competition. That competition shouldn't involve placing them in Matches that are 3x their Roster strength, multiplied by the Nodes that increase their strength, and then have the expectation that they need to string nothing but consecutive Wins to advance.
Spare me the lecture about what people should and shouldn't do. It's a garbage design currently.

Who remembers Maury Povich?

You said "Those "people" shouldn't be included then told not to play it."

The results are in, and that's a lie. No one has ever told them not to play it. Stop regurgitating that lie.

You said "That wall shouldn't come at the beginning of the competition."

The results are in, and that's also a lie. As the system is current most folks won't hit a definitive wall until somewhere in Platinum.

You said "That competition shouldn't involve placing them in Matches that are 3x their Roster strength, multiplied by the Nodes that increase their strength, and then have the expectation that they need to string nothing but consecutive Wins to advance."

The results are in, and that's what every competition consists of. Someone who isn't great (be it a lack of skill, strength, bad luck, etc) is going to come up against someone much better. The only way to prevent that is to silo the competition based on strength. If that's what you want, fine, advocate for that, but be prepared for the massive reduction in rewards, cause you can't expect the same without doing the same.

You keep claiming the folks at the top are too "entitled" but what you're advocating for is the very definition of entitlement. Expecting to get the same thing as everyone else, without doing the same thing everyone else does to get it.

And lastly, you said "Spare me the lecture about what people should and shouldn't do."

The results are in, and it's apparent that you need to be lectured.

GroundedWisdom · September 2023

You're just twisting my words at this point. I think I've been clear and specific enough to detail my concerns. This is becoming the same thing over and over. You don't have to agree with my views, but I'm not going to stop voicing them in these situations because it is still very much an issue I feel strongly about. I'm not going to be pigeon-holed.

Jaycray81 · September 2023

Listen if Kabam wants to match my 9k prestige account with mostly r2 6s and r5 5s and a few r3s, with r4/5 sixs and r1/2 7s, cool. Fun for the big guy.

I will, however, use the available tools to maximize my shot at winning those matchups. If my r5 5 star has to take down a r2 7 star in 3 min, believe I will pause the game for 3 min, take my 15k points, and move on with my life.

Should be a cake walk for the big guy to get 15k points.

If/when pausing gets punished, I'll take my Ls until I get the champs beefy enough to compete.

I get to platinum every season, I play fair against the accounts I need to play fair against.

phillgreen · September 2023

Sounds like my TB alt that I hardly use, with a dozen decent champs, should be treated better than my main that explored act8, did both sides of EOP, run the gauntlet and made strategic rankups to improve my chances of winning in BG's.

Vegeta9001 · September 2023

I posted in here once, and I come back to "125 new" no thank yoy

Ironman3000 · September 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
Yes. The ever-present resorting to insults.
Bottom line is, there are more Players in the competition than just the ones at the top. You can say it's a competition until the cows come home, but the more you marginalize their efforts and participation, the more you push them away from playing it at all. If you think that's inconsequential, then by all means. Keep pushing for BGs to be more and more exclusive. The reality is their progress matters to them just as much as your progress matters to you, and it's not enough for people to want to earn their own placement. They have to dictate what they think everyone else deserves as well. Which, among the most competitive minds, is nothing. That's useless when considering the overall balance.
It's a competition! It's a competition! Great. We've established that. Everyone playing it has established that. The fairness of it is in question, and you can use all or nothing statements and claims that I'm pushing for participation trophies and easy Rewards, and all that. That's not the case. We all know what a fair competition is. Throwing people among Matches that they can't get past at the start of the competition isn't it. That sink or swim mentality doesn't work in this context. They're not playing in the Arena against set limits they can work towards over time. They're playing in a competition that increases Season after Season. If you are operating under the idea that they'll just get better as they bash around Bronze and Silver, you're ignoring the other Players who will progress much faster.
I'm sorry that some people don't care if others fall out, but I do. I want people to be challenged enough to keep trying, not be told to get over it at the door.

Ok fine you win GW. Kaban should add a second mode called "Play Grounds" where you and others who are unwilling to improve their skills can match each other. Everyone gets 100% VT rewards, regardless of whether they win or not, and the new "Participation Trophy" title on their accounts. They can use all of this to show their moms and get one free Happy Meal a week.

Ironman3000 · September 2023

Pikok said:
Lol I remember few seasons ago GW was a TB. And had completly different opinion about bg and he defended bg matchmaking. Now he advanced in prestige and suddenly system is bad. Hmm. What happened?

He was the champion of the siloed prestige matchmaking back when he was at the top of his silo and able to get to the CG w/o much effort. Now that he's at the bottom of his new silo he thinks it's just not fair!!!! Karma.

Ironman3000 · September 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree there. They do matter. The Players coming up now will be the competition tomorrow. Their long-term participation matters. If you're going to disregard them and their issues, I'd rather you just remove them from BGs completely because it's just plain wrong to act like their experience is trivial.

If a player is willing to quit BGs instead of improving their skills and roster they they will literally never be my competition. You don't get to the top by being a quitter.

Dirty_Dozz · September 2023

Ironman3000 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Yes. The ever-present resorting to insults.
Bottom line is, there are more Players in the competition than just the ones at the top. You can say it's a competition until the cows come home, but the more you marginalize their efforts and participation, the more you push them away from playing it at all. If you think that's inconsequential, then by all means. Keep pushing for BGs to be more and more exclusive. The reality is their progress matters to them just as much as your progress matters to you, and it's not enough for people to want to earn their own placement. They have to dictate what they think everyone else deserves as well. Which, among the most competitive minds, is nothing. That's useless when considering the overall balance.
It's a competition! It's a competition! Great. We've established that. Everyone playing it has established that. The fairness of it is in question, and you can use all or nothing statements and claims that I'm pushing for participation trophies and easy Rewards, and all that. That's not the case. We all know what a fair competition is. Throwing people among Matches that they can't get past at the start of the competition isn't it. That sink or swim mentality doesn't work in this context. They're not playing in the Arena against set limits they can work towards over time. They're playing in a competition that increases Season after Season. If you are operating under the idea that they'll just get better as they bash around Bronze and Silver, you're ignoring the other Players who will progress much faster.
I'm sorry that some people don't care if others fall out, but I do. I want people to be challenged enough to keep trying, not be told to get over it at the door.
Ok fine you win GW. Kaban should add a second mode called "Play Grounds" where you and others who are unwilling to improve their skills can match each other. Everyone gets 100% VT rewards, regardless of whether they win or not, and the new "Participation Trophy" title on their accounts. They can use all of this to show their moms and get one free Happy Meal a week.

This is needlessly reductive, and is condescending as hell. No one is saying they want all the rewards for doing nothing. But in a mode that's "looking for the best of the best", pitting the equivalent of a high school sports team vs an all-star team is not a good way of finding that (analogy isn't the greatest). Because no matter how good a players skill is, a squad of 4 and 5* Champs isn't going to be able to win against 6R5s and 7*s. People are saying there should be brackets.

Besides, having reached GC the last few seasons, I know that every player who gets there has the advantage of trouncing weak accounts in the process. Had a player in my alliance brag he faced like 4 accounts in a row that all forfeit because his account was so much stronger. That's not "best of the best".

Ironman3000 · September 2023

Dirty_Dozz said:

Ironman3000 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Yes. The ever-present resorting to insults.
Bottom line is, there are more Players in the competition than just the ones at the top. You can say it's a competition until the cows come home, but the more you marginalize their efforts and participation, the more you push them away from playing it at all. If you think that's inconsequential, then by all means. Keep pushing for BGs to be more and more exclusive. The reality is their progress matters to them just as much as your progress matters to you, and it's not enough for people to want to earn their own placement. They have to dictate what they think everyone else deserves as well. Which, among the most competitive minds, is nothing. That's useless when considering the overall balance.
It's a competition! It's a competition! Great. We've established that. Everyone playing it has established that. The fairness of it is in question, and you can use all or nothing statements and claims that I'm pushing for participation trophies and easy Rewards, and all that. That's not the case. We all know what a fair competition is. Throwing people among Matches that they can't get past at the start of the competition isn't it. That sink or swim mentality doesn't work in this context. They're not playing in the Arena against set limits they can work towards over time. They're playing in a competition that increases Season after Season. If you are operating under the idea that they'll just get better as they bash around Bronze and Silver, you're ignoring the other Players who will progress much faster.
I'm sorry that some people don't care if others fall out, but I do. I want people to be challenged enough to keep trying, not be told to get over it at the door.
Ok fine you win GW. Kaban should add a second mode called "Play Grounds" where you and others who are unwilling to improve their skills can match each other. Everyone gets 100% VT rewards, regardless of whether they win or not, and the new "Participation Trophy" title on their accounts. They can use all of this to show their moms and get one free Happy Meal a week.
This is needlessly reductive, and is condescending as hell. No one is saying they want all the rewards for doing nothing. But in a mode that's "looking for the best of the best", pitting the equivalent of a high school sports team vs an all-star team is not a good way of finding that (analogy isn't the greatest). Because no matter how good a players skill is, a squad of 4 and 5* Champs isn't going to be able to win against 6R5s and 7*s. People are saying there should be brackets.

Besides, having reached GC the last few seasons, I know that every player who gets there has the advantage of trouncing weak accounts in the process. Had a player in my alliance brag he faced like 4 accounts in a row that all forfeit because his account was so much stronger. That's not "best of the best".

So you're for a lower-tiered bracket but somehow against my suggestion of adding a lower-tiered bracket?

And demanding that a player get artificially raised higher than they are able to get on their own is asking for free rewards.

BringPopcorn · September 2023

Hey I'm upset that Kabam is taking only the top 8 to the Brawl event, I find it elitist. Everyone should be able to enjoy the experience instead of being bullied out by the top 8 from a special event.

Pr0t0t7p3 · September 2023

Ironman3000 said:

Pr0t0t7p3 said:

Pikolu said:
Welcome to the ladder. Just wait until you hit platinum and start matching against paragons with all r5 and r4 6*s in their deck because you can match anyone once you hit there.

Also battlegrounds is not designed to be fair, if you can't progress, then it is time to focus your efforts on story content and roster development
Platinum??? I’ve been hitting paragons and legends with r2 7* and r5 6* since silver and gold!! What I want to I know is what are all these big timers way down in silver and gold and not in gladiator track with only 7 days left in BG??? That’s saying something for sure.
Because the matchmaking is putting them vs. each other for the majority of the VT. That keeps Mid to low Paragons down in Silver and Gold while only the top Paragons advance.

Dunno about that. I’m not paragon. And besides up in platinum 1 I am fighting uncollected accounts with 5*s. Which I never fought in bronze, silver, gold. Just seems odd.

Battlegrounds needs balancing

Comments