Winter of Woe... You will all agree with this.

Avnish · February 8

What else we can do. It is kabam. They come up with the 5 energy per node idea. Weather the community is happy or sad. They don't care.

I am just spending full energy for practice and then throw my revive which is already in stash to get this over with.

Please guys Applaud for Kevin he smartly designed this quest. Fight is really fun if you enjoy it and throw revives complete the objectives. That's what kabam wants us to do.

ItsClobberinTime · February 8

Skydad23 said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Demonzfyre said:

ItsClobberinTime said:
This turned into a Demonzfyre vs Everyone thread real quick lmao
I don't care. What else is new? I don't see the problem with the energy. It's just weird you're just now having the issue. Not when the Livestream happened and not when the info dropped.

So why now? It wasn't a secret.
Hmmmm maybe because the previous EOP didn't require you to fight the boss thirty times til you actually got used to the fight and we all thought this would be the same as last EOP only more challenging but not full of bs nodes similar to how Necropolis was more challenging but not full of bs like Abyss? Having to repeat the fight thirty times when the energy cost is 10 per try is absurd. Come on, I know you're smarter than this, don't ask questions like that one.
You don’t see a problem with the energy because you don’t log off the forums and play the game how could you you are here all day every day.

Are you dyslexic? I said I see the problem with the energy you donut 💀

Monsterrrrrrrr · February 8

Kabaam just want us to pay regardless whether it is worthy or not, this 10 energy requirement for every try means just that. Such a shameful act done

Darth_Caedus1 · February 8

DNA3000 said:
They don't want the fight to be something that you can just memorize a rhythm after a hundred practice runs. They specifically want to reward players who can learn a fight under fire, whereas low to zero energy costs disincentivize that in favor of restarting until you get the perfect run.

Then they failed miserably.
This fight is basically
Doing the fight with She hulk (which is the most viable option right now)

1. Get him to an SP1, bait, heavy, standup intercept in the corner
2. Repeat 1 until you have an SP2 to drop
3. Drop the SP2 and start with step 1 again.

That's it, that's the fight.
Hope the AI works with you on the intercepts because if you get hit, you're probably dead.

Restart and hope you have a better run next time which is pretty much identical to "restarting until you get the perfect run"

Skydad23 · February 8

ItsClobberinTime said:

Skydad23 said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Demonzfyre said:

ItsClobberinTime said:
This turned into a Demonzfyre vs Everyone thread real quick lmao
I don't care. What else is new? I don't see the problem with the energy. It's just weird you're just now having the issue. Not when the Livestream happened and not when the info dropped.

So why now? It wasn't a secret.
Hmmmm maybe because the previous EOP didn't require you to fight the boss thirty times til you actually got used to the fight and we all thought this would be the same as last EOP only more challenging but not full of bs nodes similar to how Necropolis was more challenging but not full of bs like Abyss? Having to repeat the fight thirty times when the energy cost is 10 per try is absurd. Come on, I know you're smarter than this, don't ask questions like that one.
You don’t see a problem with the energy because you don’t log off the forums and play the game how could you you are here all day every day.
Are you dyslexic? I said I see the problem with the energy you donut 💀

First off yes, I am dyslexic. Secondly, I apologize if I was not clear, I was agreeing with you my comment was for Demonfrye’s

BigPoppaCBONE · February 8

Darth_Caedus1 said:

DNA3000 said:
They don't want the fight to be something that you can just memorize a rhythm after a hundred practice runs. They specifically want to reward players who can learn a fight under fire, whereas low to zero energy costs disincentivize that in favor of restarting until you get the perfect run.
Then they failed miserably.
This fight is basically
Doing the fight with She hulk (which is the most viable option right now)

1. Get him to an SP1, bait, heavy, standup intercept in the corner
2. Repeat 1 until you have an SP2 to drop
3. Drop the SP2 and start with step 1 again.

That's it, that's the fight.
Hope the AI works with you on the intercepts because if you get hit, you're probably dead.

Restart and hope you have a better run next time which is pretty much identical to "restarting until you get the perfect run"

Definite fail if they wanted something free-flowing and dynamic where we have to react to cues and spacing and change it up as needed.

With the best options and everything going your way, this fight is
Watch clocks. Chip-chip-chunk. Watch clocks. Chip-chip-chunk. Anyone Dead? If not, Repeat.

Gaborrrrr · February 8

This is the least fun content ever. So many issues, the energy cost doesn't make sense, the AI is absolutely terrible and as a Valiant the fight is just way to hard. I´ll pass on this whole content and rewards and try to find something fun in the game, although is increasingly hard to do so lately.

Fit_Fun9329 · February 8

SirGamesBond · February 8

DNA3000 said:

Fryday said:
We all know why Kabam did this.

But woh this is the pettiest the company have been.

If you ever wonder why the players base have a negative view of Kabam, well this would be one fine example.
I actually know precisely why the energy costs are what they are, but the problem is there's clearly no real opportunity to discuss them rationally, specifically because of this attitude.

I was one of the players who praised both SoP and EoP for being content that was engaging specifically because of the structure of the content. One fight, lots of opportunity to practice, see if you can beat it. To me, that's interesting. There's still difficulty involved, there's still skill involved, and there's even still spending involved to keep the lights on if you couldn't do it in a solo or a couple revives. In fact, I argued that a player might be more inclined to spend on one fight, if they thought they still had a decent shot at the other fights. If the very first one seems impossible, there's literally no point in spending a ton on it only to have to do that again.

I said all of that back then, and I still believe it now, and because of that I feel the energy costs for WoW are higher than I think would be best. The designers feel differently, and they have their reasons which are not unreasonable. They want the content to be something a player can't just do over and over again until they get lucky - which is actually a complaint I made about the early Act 7.1 beta. They don't want the fight to be something that you can just memorize a rhythm after a hundred practice runs. They specifically want to reward players who can learn a fight under fire, whereas low to zero energy costs disincentivize that in favor of restarting until you get the perfect run. There are other reasons, because design is complicated, but they are all reasonable in and of themselves. The question is whether those priorities should override others which I think are equally valid.

I think there's a valid debate to be had over whether WoW goes to far in one direction, at the expense of removing something valuable about the prior two iterations. But I look at the tenor of the complaints about WoW, and the odds of having such a discussion seem to me to be practically nonexistent.

If you want to argue that Kabam is greedy and petty, go ahead. There's only two possibilities. One: you're right, and they will ignore you completely, because that's what greedy petty people do. Two: you're wrong, and they will ignore you completely because that's what people who aren't greedy and petty do when they are accused of being greedy and petty. Both of those lines of discussion lead to the same place. Nowhere.

Can we find a middle ground of 2 or 3 energy , DNA what would you say?
...

Summer of pain was called by summer of practice by many of us, I'm not joking and it was indeed kind of a practice in many ways.
The learning and the development of skill along the way to overcome it.
What I believed Practice was: countless of us players tried to solo most of the fights... It took a long time to get a hold of things. And many players did. It was self satisfaction.

Revives was not a issue last time and it isn't this time either. I have 25 overflowing revives, And I can get 25 again given 2 weeks time for next set. I even have countless boosts in overflow, if people want to spam, they can.

But this time revives spam is incentivised before trying to beat a content with determination. It is a poor design for us who thrive on getting better at the game with time.

I soloed 90% of the fights in sop.
This time I won't be doing it cause of the energy cost. It won't cost me anything. The amount of resources I have is way more than needed to do measly 3 objectives (it's true).

Im a huge supporter of learning from mistakes and overcoming it. But we don't have energy refills to just throw away. We all like to play the game in our own terms, throwing energy does not agree with me.

It's sad to see how WOW turned out. I loved SOP and enjoyed every single fight(except warlock, small willpower mastery cost rant).

it saddens me that I'll have to go revive spamming, and I'll definitely spam them.
But it doesn't agree with the game where one content we get to test our skills will cost us ridiculous energy.

Soloing fights in sop after hours of practice gave us a positive feeling towards the game.
Not being able to practicing solo in wow will result in bitterness and resentment towards the game.

I'm not happy with this design. End of rant. Not going to comment on this *badword* again.

the_eradicator · February 8

Demonzfyre said:

DanielRand said:

Demonzfyre said:

BringPopcorn said:

Demonzfyre said:
You can't revive farm anymore. What are you doing with all the energy refills you get?
Seorously?.. You can't possibly be defending a 5 energy tile on "Everest" content...
They talked about it in the livestream. The reasoning is fine. It doesn't bother me one bit that it's 5. It's 2 nodes and TB 3.1/2 are 5 each. I don't really see the big deal.
I am doing my best to be constructive here and not be accused of personal attacks. So I’ll just say your reasoning is suspect at best. Theres really no comparison in wasting refills “testing” content and completing EQ. Find another hill to die on.
There's plenty to not like about this fight. The energy doesn't bother me.

New day and a new comedy show from DemonzFyre.
When the consensus agrees that the amount of energy needed for such hard content is too much, I think you really have to try very hard to find the logic deep within you to oppose something like this.
Kabam all the jokes and ranting aside, what are you trying to do with the 5 energy ? Nerf revives, BS war tactics in which you EXPECT people to die and now this clown show, but okay alright lets just let the people practise it out with different champs...naah, we will put a high energy gate to this stuff so that we again use units lol.
You are making it very easy to convince myself to quit being competitive in this game and ignore all this BS changes/content right now.

Vegeta9001 · February 8

One major thing I have against this fight is AbsMan is the most passive pos I've seen until he gets the unstoppable then he just keeps swinging. I spent 30 seconds dancing with the guy trying to land a strike one fight before I died to brute force, because all he did for legitimately 35-40 seconds was back off, block, repeat.

Having AI that passive, with unstoppable, with brute force and with I believe 0 robot counters that both healblocks and slow built in, it's rough. Sandman was easy, Hulk was semi-bad but robot is just a god awful objective unless you want to brute force with a 7* guilly 2099 if you were lucky enough to get her.

10 energy is an atrocious decision but luckily I'm sat on around 70 refills because I dont play the game 😂

Moosetiptronic · February 8

@SirGamesBond

Great observation. I was a sop attempt to get the solo person too. Even after I'd completed the objectives. I know so many that were.

This is specifically designed to push you to revive through frustration *because you fear running out of energy*, rather than see if you can out skill it and throw revives at the challenge because the skill gap is too large.

klobberintyme · February 8

the_eradicator said:

Demonzfyre said:

DanielRand said:

Demonzfyre said:

BringPopcorn said:

Demonzfyre said:
You can't revive farm anymore. What are you doing with all the energy refills you get?
Seorously?.. You can't possibly be defending a 5 energy tile on "Everest" content...
They talked about it in the livestream. The reasoning is fine. It doesn't bother me one bit that it's 5. It's 2 nodes and TB 3.1/2 are 5 each. I don't really see the big deal.
I am doing my best to be constructive here and not be accused of personal attacks. So I’ll just say your reasoning is suspect at best. Theres really no comparison in wasting refills “testing” content and completing EQ. Find another hill to die on.
There's plenty to not like about this fight. The energy doesn't bother me.
New day and a new comedy show from DemonzFyre.
When the consensus agrees that the amount of energy needed for such hard content is too much, I think you really have to try very hard to find the logic deep within you to oppose something like this.
Kabam all the jokes and ranting aside, what are you trying to do with the 5 energy ? Nerf revives, BS war tactics in which you EXPECT people to die and now this clown show, but okay alright lets just let the people practise it out with different champs...naah, we will put a high energy gate to this stuff so that we again use units lol.
You are making it very easy to convince myself to quit being competitive in this game and ignore all this BS changes/content right now.

I can confirm 1000% that being a non-competitive casual, these more-frequent hornets nest poop shows on the boards are far more entertaining to me than game content.

The slippery slope here is that kabam's data now shows, from 2023 q4, that user engagement is way up on content that requires repeat revives, and that there's x amount of tolerance for it which results in y amount of revenue, all to get z percent closer to 7r3s. What number cruncher wouldn't go nuts for that strategy?

Awful for competitive types, tho.

Ironman3000 · February 8

The energy cost, if it continues, will be one of the worst decisions they've made in years.

It sucks now, and it will really suck having to burn refills every 2 weeks all year.

jcphillips7 · February 8

Did we get any confirmation about the wiggle room point for Valiants? I got the solo with Sandman, and I’m sure if the cards line up right I could land the solo or at least very close with She-Hulk (just waiting for level up to take mine to r3), but I’m hesitant on the Robot objective.

I’ve got a 6r3 Warlock and a 7r1 G2099, but I’m hesitant to even attempt those, plus I’m focusing on EQ/SQ right now, so my energy is tied up.

TyEdge · February 8

Ruwqiersa said:

Demonzfyre said:
You can't revive farm anymore. What are you doing with all the energy refills you get?
Tbeq?

The entirety of TB EQ is about 1100 energy. If you use your full set of energy when you wake up and again when you go to bed, that’s done in 8 days, without being proactive about using energy in between, asking for help, or using refills

Winter of Woe... You will all agree with this.

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