Ghost is a Tech champ? Doesn't make any sense!

TranminhbaoTranminhbao Posts: 124
edited July 2018 in General Discussion
Has anyone bewildered when you saw Ghost's class? She should be Mystic or Science. In the movie, Ghost have nothing to do with tech.
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Comments

  • will-o-wispwill-o-wisp Posts: 5,660
    Well she has something to do with the tech class ... Besides, this is a game, not the movie itself
  • Hammerbro_64Hammerbro_64 Posts: 2,485
    It’s like Modok and Doc Ock. It could have gone either way and no one would question it.
  • Ant Man and Yellowjacket should be classed as Tech. I think they classified Wasp as Science for consistency's sake, but she should also be tech. They are all normal humans who use the suit to do extraordinary things...no different than Iron Man. But I understand not changing a class after so many years as it would be met with an uproar.

    Ghost should be science. A science experiment gone wrong gave her her abilities. She was shown to have these abilities without any tech. Yet another incorrect class assignment.
  • Oroku_SakiOroku_Saki Posts: 167
    It seems they based the classes on their comic book counterparts, even though they're the movie versions with different origins. Or maybe they drew the classes from a hat. Hard to tell these days.
  • AsmodeyusAsmodeyus Posts: 218
    technology caused her affliction, technology in the suit helps maintain her abilities and form. Best closest class is tech
  • shadow_lurker22shadow_lurker22 Posts: 1,364
    It’s like Modok and Doc Ock. It could have gone either way and no one would question it.

    Well except people do question it
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 2,635
    I believe Antman and Yellowjacket are science because their powers are related to the Pym Particle (science). Wasp is an extension of that as well. The Pym Particle is the science behind the powers. The suit itself is more of a catalyst or control of the powers, not the actual source whereas for Iron Man, the suit provides all his powers.
  • Asmodeyus wrote: »
    technology caused her affliction, technology in the suit helps maintain her abilities and form. Best closest class is tech

    One could argue that technology caused Hulk's transformation as well as Abomination, Spider-man, Luke Cage, or several other Science champs. As far as this game is concerned, it's not terribly important how a person got their powers, it's more about how they behave in a fight.

    The loading screens used to give a general overview of each class. Cosmic champs rely on buffs and Mystic champs are good at nullifying buffs (counterspell, armor break, nullify, etc.), hence the class advantage over Cosmic champs. The science class was said to be not overly reliant on buffs, rather they had inherently high base stats with very few other bells & whistles. As mystics won't have anything to nullify, they get a class disadvantage against science. This info comes from the in-game loading screens, though I'm not sure if they still run the same tips as it's been a while since I've paid attention. If I remember correctly, it said Cosmics were good at bypassing the armor up abilities of Tech champs, Tech champs were good at blocking the healing ability inherent in many mutants, and due to a lack of superpowers, skill champs often rely on bleed damage to cause damage. While there are exceptions, many champs fit these early descriptions pretty well.

    Take away Iron Man's technology and he's a regular guy. Same with War Machine. Same with Starlord. Yondu. Howard, Vulture. Doc Ock. The same could be said of Antman, Yellowjacket, or Wasp, only they're not tech, inexplicably. Look at the other science champs. Send in Hulk unarmed and he's still a very powerful opponent. Same with Spider-man. Same with Captain America. They don't need external pieces of equipment to be very capable fighters. Take away Ghost's suit and she can still phase and turn invisible. The technology helps, but it isn't necessary. The same goes for Spidey's webshooters or Cap's shield. They definitely help, but they aren't necessary.
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    I believe Antman and Yellowjacket are science because their powers are related to the Pym Particle (science). Wasp is an extension of that as well. The Pym Particle is the science behind the powers. The suit itself is more of a catalyst or control of the powers, not the actual source whereas for Iron Man, the suit provides all his powers.

    I'm not sure what some people consider science vs. technology. Technology is applied science. The two are related to be sure, but I'd say that Pym Particles in the Ant Man suit are a perfect example of Technology as an applied science. It took a lot of scientific research to figure out how to harness Pym Particles, but without the suit's technology to apply that science, you've got nothing.

    And don't forget the name of the company that made the Ant Man and Yellowjacket suits...Pym Technologies
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 2,635
    edited July 2018
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    I believe Antman and Yellowjacket are science because their powers are related to the Pym Particle (science). Wasp is an extension of that as well. The Pym Particle is the science behind the powers. The suit itself is more of a catalyst or control of the powers, not the actual source whereas for Iron Man, the suit provides all his powers.

    I'm not sure what some people consider science vs. technology. Technology is applied science. The two are related to be sure, but I'd say that Pym Particles in the Ant Man suit are a perfect example of Technology as an applied science. It took a lot of scientific research to figure out how to harness Pym Particles, but without the suit's technology to apply that science, you've got nothing.

    And don't forget the name of the company that made the Ant Man and Yellowjacket suits...Pym Technologies

    Yes well that will always be the problem with science and technology, the fact that the line is blurred in most instances it is hard to really classify anything 100% accurately. Sure most people would say that Spider-Man is science because he was bitten by a radioactive spider and that’s where he derives his powers from. But in a lot of cases, especially dealing with suits, the line is so blurred that it could be argued either way. Sure the suits harness and control the Pym Particles and maybe without it, Antman, Yellowjacket, and Wasp wouldn’t exist, but without the Pym Particle you would just have a fancy suit with no powers. You could argue that Tony Stark’s scientific intelligence helps him to build Iron Man so that could be science.

    Now unless Kabam decides to take classes one step further with dual classes (which has been discussed by many people including myself) it will be extremely difficult to pin down to one class. In the end there needs to be balance and you can’t just stick everyone into science or stick everyone into tech. Personally I think dual classes is an interesting concept but it would inevitably lead to more bugs and weird interactions and break more stuff in game.
  • V1PER1987 wrote: »
    Now unless Kabam decides to take classes one step further with dual classes (which has been discussed by many people including myself) it will be extremely difficult to pin down to one class. In the end there needs to be balance and you can’t just stick everyone into science or stick everyone into tech. Personally I think dual classes is an interesting concept but it would inevitably lead to more bugs and weird interactions and break more stuff in game.

    I liked the Dual classes. They seemed to test the waters with Karnak and then never did it again, which was a shame. So many complex champs who could use a blend of some sort:

    Unstoppable Colossus, Scarlet Witch and Magik: Mystic & Mutant.
    Ant Man, Yellowjacket, Wasp, Ghost, Green Goblin, and Stark Spidey: Science & Tech
    Agent Venom: Cosmic & Skill

    Not meant to be an exhaustive list. But adding these dual classes would put a lot of these silly debates to bed.
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 2,635
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    Now unless Kabam decides to take classes one step further with dual classes (which has been discussed by many people including myself) it will be extremely difficult to pin down to one class. In the end there needs to be balance and you can’t just stick everyone into science or stick everyone into tech. Personally I think dual classes is an interesting concept but it would inevitably lead to more bugs and weird interactions and break more stuff in game.

    I liked the Dual classes. They seemed to test the waters with Karnak and then never did it again, which was a shame. So many complex champs who could use a blend of some sort:

    Unstoppable Colossus, Scarlet Witch and Magik: Mystic & Mutant.
    Ant Man, Yellowjacket, Wasp, Ghost, Green Goblin, and Stark Spidey: Science & Tech
    Agent Venom: Cosmic & Skill

    Not meant to be an exhaustive list. But adding these dual classes would put a lot of these silly debates to bed.

    Yeah I got excited when I saw Karnak look like he was going to split. I thought Phoenix would have the same treatment and they would add a new element. I guess file this one away as a wishlist item.
  • KhanMedinaKhanMedina Posts: 927
    I think the difference is tech guys always need the tech, whereas science guys might use tech to get powers but then they just have them (assuming that power isn't just a tech implant). I'd also add in whether or not you invented the tech should matter. Pym might be using tech but I have no issue with him being science. Lang is definitely tech.
    Ghost is 100% tech in comics, and since she has suit on in game I'm fine with tech class. Without suit she'd be science though, same as every other accident.
  • Oroku_SakiOroku_Saki Posts: 167
    Ghost has nothing to do with mystic either.

    Ghosts are definitely mystic though...

    #freerooster30
  • BrandJennBrandJenn Posts: 140
    I thought ghost was a mutant?
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 2,635
    Oroku_Saki wrote: »
    Ghost has nothing to do with mystic either.

    Ghosts are definitely mystic though...

    #freerooster30

    I don’t know. Scooby Doo taught me that ghosts are tech because they’re created by projectors.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 6,488
    I'm not sure what some people consider science vs. technology. Technology is applied science.

    Everything not magic is science. That includes Judo, which is applied physics. But when games make this distinction, it is usually the case that when there's obvious overlap between science and anything else (and there almost always is) the question that is asked is which half seems "more extraordinary." Punisher uses guns, and guns are technology, but that technology is not as extraordinary as his skills are. Conversely Iron Man's technology is, at least arguably, far more extraordinary when it comes to his combat abilities than the scientific principles behind the suit's mechanics. In the fiction of the comics or the movies, the only "extraordinary" science in the Iron Man suits is the arc reactor. The rest of the suit is, in the fictional universe it inhabits, obeying very conventional laws of physics.

    Ant-Man uses a suit to control the Pym particles, so he has a tech suit and an advanced scientific principle giving him his abilities. The argument is that the scientific principles that govern the Pym particles' effects is the more "extraordinary" part of Ant-Man. It is of course still debatable, but that's at least the context of the debate. It isn't totally arbitrary, even if it is somewhat subjective.

    In the case of Ghost, the balance between how important the extraordinary scientific principles behind her phasing are and how important her suit is to her combat capabilities specifically (which is what the game is concerned with) could go either way for me.
  • There are a lot of Champions that can go either way, as others have mentioned. We partner with Marvel directly when selecting the class for each Champion we release :smile: It's always interesting to see you guys get into healthy debates over this stuff, there are so many years of deep lore and history with each character!
  • AsmodeyusAsmodeyus Posts: 218
    I based my point off the movie because that seems to be the most current incarnation of the character. With the hulk and abom comparison i can see it as science since their bodies show massive changes. While no ones version is wrong, it seems mostly likely, or a greater inclination towards Tech for Ghost. Without going down the shiny green, trumps all class
  • MaidrilMaidril Posts: 289
    Her suit is tech (as is the machine she uses) and I’d argue that’s what makes her who she is. Otherwise she’d be dead, no?

    But ultimately, science and tech are basically the same thing. With science being a broader category.
  • Oroku_SakiOroku_Saki Posts: 167
    edited July 2018
    But since they're the movie versions they don't have any deep lore or history...

    Please don't kill me Ad0ra_ ! I don't want to be a ghost...
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 2,635
    In essence, the class is related to how they use their powers. Iron Man is tech because he uses his suit to fight. He uses his blasters and the strength gained from his suit to fight. Spider-Man uses the powers derived from a radioactive spider to evade and launch webs. Green Goblin, although affected by the Goblin serum, uses tech and gadgets to fight. I know that there was a lot of disappointment and outrage with GG and Doc Oc classification (I thought for sure at least GG was science), but I can at least understand and respect the argument of tech. Maybe Kabam shouldn’t have released two classes so similar where the line between two classes is so blurred. But in the end I think you can at least make a valid argument for each champ being the class they are.
  • RikuremaRikurema Posts: 124
    In the comics, ghost would actually be considered a tech champ
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 6,488
    Maidril wrote: »
    Her suit is tech (as is the machine she uses) and I’d argue that’s what makes her who she is. Otherwise she’d be dead, no?

    But ultimately, science and tech are basically the same thing. With science being a broader category.

    Science and technology are not the same thing, nor is one a subset of the other. Science is the systematic understanding of and knowledge about the universe. Technology is the application of knowledge into shaping or manipulating the universe. The relationship between science and technology is like the relationship between a composer and a conductor. Neither does something that is a superset or derivative version of the other.
  • ZzyzxGuyZzyzxGuy Posts: 1,292
    Thor Rag is totally skill. Totally.
  • To be clear the science champs are acience because the character is enhanced by it Ant-Man, YJ, Wasp their suits do nothing really the pym particles are science and thats where their strength comes fron. And what they use in a fight hulks=gamma stuff xD Cap=Super soldier serum as someone said theit class are based on "they're useless if you take it away" so to speak Thor (Rag) is skill because he doesn't use his cosmic powers in that form I guess cause he's more physical hand to hand same with blade BP

    So Ghost being Tech is like Iron Man no arc reactor no suit no fight Ghost is unstable and cannot do much with out the suit so no suit no fight

    Hope this helped
  • MaidrilMaidril Posts: 289
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Maidril wrote: »
    Her suit is tech (as is the machine she uses) and I’d argue that’s what makes her who she is. Otherwise she’d be dead, no?

    But ultimately, science and tech are basically the same thing. With science being a broader category.

    Science and technology are not the same thing, nor is one a subset of the other. Science is the systematic understanding of and knowledge about the universe. Technology is the application of knowledge into shaping or manipulating the universe. The relationship between science and technology is like the relationship between a composer and a conductor. Neither does something that is a superset or derivative version of the other.

    You’re right, they’re not the same. But I’d argue that tech is usually the application of science in the real world - and not some controlled environment. And as such, it is through science that tech champs have any abilities. Really it’s only mutants and mystics that are ‘sort of’ clear cut imo.
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