Haha the solution seems to be to just call all parts of the game compensation. Appreciation week = compensation. Login calendar = compensation. 10 year anniversary event = compensation.
Also love that the response to all complaints is that we are all wrong and that the compensation was actually great...
There's a simple solution to all the unrest in the community... I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. Bracketed compensation. Will there still be some people who don't like this method? Of course, you can't please everyone. Will some people get more compensation? Yes, but that's the way it should be.
That doesn't solve the problem of dissatisfaction so much as it shifts it to different people. And I wouldn't bet money on which group of players is larger, if the intended goal is to reduce the number of players dissatisfied.
It *might* be more fair in a game-balance sense (it is in my judgment), but the only reason for implementing such a system would be if you were willing to implement your idea of fairness in spite of community reaction, not because of it.
There's no such thing as a simple solution that simultaneously satisfies popularity and principles. If there were, we wouldn't need principles.
While I do understand your point, I do believe that there would be far less dissatisfied players using bracketed compensation. Obviously the people that would get frustrated would be those that missed a cutoff by some small margin... It sucks, yeah but lines have to be drawn somewhere as they were with 12.0.
For the record, in 12.0.1 many players complained about bracketed compensation that were not close to the cutoff, but opposed it on principle, something that has happened at other times as well. Setting aside the issue of the validity of that position, those people do exist and in significant numbers. There is probably significant overlap with the "rich get richer" people when it comes to things like uncollected crystals, and that contingent is actually pretty big.
Again: the question I'm discussing here is not who's right or wrong, but specifically whether there's an overwhelming consensus in one direction. I don't believe there is one here.
There's a simple solution to all the unrest in the community... I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. Bracketed compensation. Will there still be some people who don't like this method? Of course, you can't please everyone. Will some people get more compensation? Yes, but that's the way it should be.
That doesn't solve the problem of dissatisfaction so much as it shifts it to different people. And I wouldn't bet money on which group of players is larger, if the intended goal is to reduce the number of players dissatisfied.
It *might* be more fair in a game-balance sense (it is in my judgment), but the only reason for implementing such a system would be if you were willing to implement your idea of fairness in spite of community reaction, not because of it.
There's no such thing as a simple solution that simultaneously satisfies popularity and principles. If there were, we wouldn't need principles.
While I do understand your point, I do believe that there would be far less dissatisfied players using bracketed compensation. Obviously the people that would get frustrated would be those that missed a cutoff by some small margin... It sucks, yeah but lines have to be drawn somewhere as they were with 12.0.
For the record, in 12.0.1 many players complained about bracketed compensation that were not close to the cutoff, but opposed it on principle, something that has happened at other times as well. Setting aside the issue of the validity of that position, those people do exist and in significant numbers. There is probably significant overlap with the "rich get richer" people when it comes to things like uncollected crystals, and that contingent is actually pretty big.
Again: the question I'm discussing here is not who's right or wrong, but specifically whether there's an overwhelming consensus in one direction. I don't believe there is one here.
It's not about the rich getting richer, it's about fairly compensating players for what they missed out on... I hope we can both at least agree that Kabam did not do a good job of this with their appreciation event.
Getting back to @Ad0ra_ post, it seems like this is the major disconnect between the players and Kabam. Her statement downplays the impact of 19.0, passing it off as a minor inconvenience to a select group of iOS users. In reality, I believe the issue was much greater. Sure I was able to log in and play during the 3 weeks, but it was 1) doing damage to my device and 2) limited to quick 10 minute windows where I would do a few fights before shutting down the app to avoid serious, long lasting damage. Many of my alliance mates and people on Reddit had serious issues. Enough people expressed that they couldn't play that it seems almost definitely a bigger issue than Kabam is making it out to be.
She also states that we've received more items this month than any other non-12.0 related month. This is contradictory to things @Kabam Miike has stated about compensation not being about "free stuff". The Gwenpool event was a celebration of Marvel's 10 year anniversary and doubled as a marketing campaign. This was likely planned far in advance and really has nothing to do with the overheating. Sure the 5* was easily obtainable, but it was very similar to the 2* arena. Not only that, but it was our side event for the month, something they do each and every month. If they didn't add content like this every month, end-game players, who tend to be the largest spenders, would have nothing to do. Most monthly side events end up giving around 10k 5* shards and some other items. The Gwenpool event certainly gave more than that, but not enough that'd I'd consider it out of the normal course of things.
Another item she states as being overly generous are the 7h SA login crystals. I believe this is the closest we've come to a legitimate answer. These crystals are probably the best value out of anything we've received during SA week. However, they are heavily RNG dependent, so some people will come out much farther ahead than others. I don't believe true compensation should be left to chance.
Finally she brings up the calendar, which again, is not unprecedented. T2A has been given in the main monthly login calendar before, and likely will be again.
It seems to me Kabam wants to pass off events and items that they would give to Summoners in the normal course of playing as compensation. We normally get Summoner Appreciation as a, oh I don't know, way of APPRECIATING US. It shouldn't be used as a way of compensating people for a serious issue. I appreciate @Ad0ra_ taking the time to explain their rationale, even if I may strongly disagree with it. I'm glad our complaints are being heard and hopefully you will continue this new trend of strong communication moving forward.
Haha the solution seems to be to just call all parts of the game compensation. Appreciation week = compensation. Login calendar = compensation. 10 year anniversary event = compensation.
Also love that the response to all complaints is that we are all wrong and that the compensation was actually great...
Seriously, this is a gosh darn joke (don't want to be further banned from the forums). They can enjoy not another dime from me and many others
There's a simple solution to all the unrest in the community... I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. Bracketed compensation. Will there still be some people who don't like this method? Of course, you can't please everyone. Will some people get more compensation? Yes, but that's the way it should be.
That doesn't solve the problem of dissatisfaction so much as it shifts it to different people. And I wouldn't bet money on which group of players is larger, if the intended goal is to reduce the number of players dissatisfied.
It *might* be more fair in a game-balance sense (it is in my judgment), but the only reason for implementing such a system would be if you were willing to implement your idea of fairness in spite of community reaction, not because of it.
There's no such thing as a simple solution that simultaneously satisfies popularity and principles. If there were, we wouldn't need principles.
While I do understand your point, I do believe that there would be far less dissatisfied players using bracketed compensation. Obviously the people that would get frustrated would be those that missed a cutoff by some small margin... It sucks, yeah but lines have to be drawn somewhere as they were with 12.0.
For the record, in 12.0.1 many players complained about bracketed compensation that were not close to the cutoff, but opposed it on principle, something that has happened at other times as well. Setting aside the issue of the validity of that position, those people do exist and in significant numbers. There is probably significant overlap with the "rich get richer" people when it comes to things like uncollected crystals, and that contingent is actually pretty big.
Again: the question I'm discussing here is not who's right or wrong, but specifically whether there's an overwhelming consensus in one direction. I don't believe there is one here.
It's not about the rich getting richer, it's about fairly compensating players for what they missed out on... I hope we can both at least agree that Kabam did not do a good job of this with their appreciation event.
Again: it is not a question of how you or I see this, I was stating what I believe to be the fact that many players do not view bracketed compensation the same way, and you aren't going to convince them all to change their minds. Bracketed compensation isn't controversy-free. You have to decide to look at all of those thousands of players who won't agree, and actively decide to do something they won't like and never will. That's an unavoidable fact of being a game designer, and I'd bet a lot of real money this is true in this case as well.
It is easy for us to "agree" when Kabam does something wrong. But hidden under that agreement is a lot of disagreement on what they should have done instead. Nowhere was that more evident than after 12.0. There are a lot of players who think 12.0.1 was the best example of the players changing Kabam's mind, and what seems to me to be an equal number of players who think it was all for nothing, because everything they hated about 12.0 wasn't changed.
I know what I would have done, and it looks nothing like what Kabam did, what Kabam described, and how Kabam managed the situation. But I have no illusions about the playerbase being in love with how I would have done it. I would hope that I would have managed expectations and perspectives better, but I doubt an overwhelming majority of players would be "happy" with my decisions. To be straight-up honest, I'd do them anyway.
It is precisely because there is no good solution to the kinds of problems players have been experiencing that I believe you're supposed to avoid them at all cost. And I mean that literally: at all cost.
Which is probably why game operations manager is not on my resume.
Brackets have their own issues. When they did that last time people lost their minds because it was very unfair. Another problem caused by developers who don't really play and don't bother to ask the community about how to implement these things (in advance). They've learned nothing. I'd make a few suggestions on how it could work, but the only people reading this either agree or are just here to argue. Good news is this thread will be closed in a couple more days when "appreciation" is over.
Hey folks - compensation is one thing, and yes, Summoner Appreciation is another. It was previously already mentioned that the gift within Summoner Appreciation week is for 19.0. The heart of it is that these are items in the game that are valuable, have been provided based on recent issues within The Contest or to do something fun for players after a rough month. We are starting to see the period of time, scale of issues and impacted player groups stretched out for discourse. We aren't changing Summoner Appreciation or the compensation provided.
This thread has already been addressed by our team, the previous one had not - which is why I addressed it. We are seeing a lot of infighting and insults lodged at people within this thread. I've removed a bunch of those, and am going to lock this thread down.
We recognize that some people wish compensation or Summoner Appreciation included more items, and feel they were impacted differently. It appears this conversation can no longer remain constructive and our answer on this topic is not going to change.
We will continue to work on new ways to improve your experience within The Contest, and want to remind people that no matter how frustrated you might be with us, it is not acceptable for you to insult or attack your fellow Summoners.
Comments
The confensation needed much improvement
For the record, in 12.0.1 many players complained about bracketed compensation that were not close to the cutoff, but opposed it on principle, something that has happened at other times as well. Setting aside the issue of the validity of that position, those people do exist and in significant numbers. There is probably significant overlap with the "rich get richer" people when it comes to things like uncollected crystals, and that contingent is actually pretty big.
Again: the question I'm discussing here is not who's right or wrong, but specifically whether there's an overwhelming consensus in one direction. I don't believe there is one here.
It's not about the rich getting richer, it's about fairly compensating players for what they missed out on... I hope we can both at least agree that Kabam did not do a good job of this with their appreciation event.
She also states that we've received more items this month than any other non-12.0 related month. This is contradictory to things @Kabam Miike has stated about compensation not being about "free stuff". The Gwenpool event was a celebration of Marvel's 10 year anniversary and doubled as a marketing campaign. This was likely planned far in advance and really has nothing to do with the overheating. Sure the 5* was easily obtainable, but it was very similar to the 2* arena. Not only that, but it was our side event for the month, something they do each and every month. If they didn't add content like this every month, end-game players, who tend to be the largest spenders, would have nothing to do. Most monthly side events end up giving around 10k 5* shards and some other items. The Gwenpool event certainly gave more than that, but not enough that'd I'd consider it out of the normal course of things.
Another item she states as being overly generous are the 7h SA login crystals. I believe this is the closest we've come to a legitimate answer. These crystals are probably the best value out of anything we've received during SA week. However, they are heavily RNG dependent, so some people will come out much farther ahead than others. I don't believe true compensation should be left to chance.
Finally she brings up the calendar, which again, is not unprecedented. T2A has been given in the main monthly login calendar before, and likely will be again.
It seems to me Kabam wants to pass off events and items that they would give to Summoners in the normal course of playing as compensation. We normally get Summoner Appreciation as a, oh I don't know, way of APPRECIATING US. It shouldn't be used as a way of compensating people for a serious issue. I appreciate @Ad0ra_ taking the time to explain their rationale, even if I may strongly disagree with it. I'm glad our complaints are being heard and hopefully you will continue this new trend of strong communication moving forward.
Seriously, this is a gosh darn joke (don't want to be further banned from the forums). They can enjoy not another dime from me and many others
So I guess that who thing about the GP event and login calendar not being compensation was another lie.
Again: it is not a question of how you or I see this, I was stating what I believe to be the fact that many players do not view bracketed compensation the same way, and you aren't going to convince them all to change their minds. Bracketed compensation isn't controversy-free. You have to decide to look at all of those thousands of players who won't agree, and actively decide to do something they won't like and never will. That's an unavoidable fact of being a game designer, and I'd bet a lot of real money this is true in this case as well.
It is easy for us to "agree" when Kabam does something wrong. But hidden under that agreement is a lot of disagreement on what they should have done instead. Nowhere was that more evident than after 12.0. There are a lot of players who think 12.0.1 was the best example of the players changing Kabam's mind, and what seems to me to be an equal number of players who think it was all for nothing, because everything they hated about 12.0 wasn't changed.
I know what I would have done, and it looks nothing like what Kabam did, what Kabam described, and how Kabam managed the situation. But I have no illusions about the playerbase being in love with how I would have done it. I would hope that I would have managed expectations and perspectives better, but I doubt an overwhelming majority of players would be "happy" with my decisions. To be straight-up honest, I'd do them anyway.
It is precisely because there is no good solution to the kinds of problems players have been experiencing that I believe you're supposed to avoid them at all cost. And I mean that literally: at all cost.
Which is probably why game operations manager is not on my resume.
This thread has already been addressed by our team, the previous one had not - which is why I addressed it. We are seeing a lot of infighting and insults lodged at people within this thread. I've removed a bunch of those, and am going to lock this thread down.
We recognize that some people wish compensation or Summoner Appreciation included more items, and feel they were impacted differently. It appears this conversation can no longer remain constructive and our answer on this topic is not going to change.
We will continue to work on new ways to improve your experience within The Contest, and want to remind people that no matter how frustrated you might be with us, it is not acceptable for you to insult or attack your fellow Summoners.