Outside of drastic changes to the whole war rating system (like individual war rating per summoner), the best way I could see to combat tanking is putting a bigger emphasis on prestige / alliance rating in the matchmaking parameters. Kabam now has absolute control over matchmaking and can see all the factors and mismatches that happen. Even an internal / external separate war rating based on last season's placement (per summoner) could be done. If you really think tanking is going to give you best chance to win, it's not hard to start a war and not place any defenders. When it comes down to final season rankings, your placement will more than less come down to how well your alliance performed and how few deaths they had. not who tanked the hardest.
I'm not for scrapping AW seasons either. The rewards need a revamp soon at the same scale of AQ, but the competiveness is something this game was lacking prior. We have yet to see how this next season will play out with the new matchmaking system but seeing tanking as the biggest determient rather than colluding search times is a good step forward.
Yeah there are way bigger issues in the game then tanking. Alliances moving to shells is a way bigger issue. Kabam just needs to figure out the right formula to ensure matchups are fair, that’s it. A bump in rewards would be nice too along with fixing the RNG based war seasons crystals.
To be clear, yanking isn’t cheating... it is an attempt to gain a competitive advantage through legal means... just like a football team sitting their starters the last week of the season if they are already in the playoffs...
There are multiple ways to solve this “problem”. The nfl rearranged the schedule such that it is less likely a teams playoff standing will be guaranteed going into the last week. In this game, that would amount to making the off season more enticing to play. Another option would be to make dropping tiers severely detrimental, something like a bigger multiplier difference between tiers, and accumulating point bonus for each war in a tier, etc. you could also lock tiers during war season, so if you tank you are unable to climb until the next offseason, though the math may not check out on that one...
If tanking is a competitive advantage Kabam wants to do away with, they should look at these options... but in reality, it isn’t cheating
Tanking is difficult to prove. Also some teams have busy players or need a break from wars. I find every little change K a bam makes it makes wars worse.
Also most teams want to save potions for when war season is on.
But why are people complaining about tanking. Are you sorry you won a war? There are bigger things to fix. We need lower timers for example. The game take up way to much time to play and this ain’t fun.
More often than not people complain about tanking because the other alliance tanked better them. Or someone screwed up and joined war when they shouldn't. We tanked the last four wars of the season. We were locked in Plat3 weren't going to make plat2 and were way ahead of gold 1. So just went for boss kills and let the rating drop. There is nothing wrong with this. It's smart play.
Why not just freeze alliance rankings altogether during the off season. Seems like a fairly easy and reasonable approach to stop off season tanking. If alliances tank during the season it only hurts themselves.
This wouldn't fix anything. Those at the top would still match, not bother placing, and then join to just get loss rewards.
No one in the upper tiers is gonna waste time and resources on offseason wars
Easier solution. Scrap seasons and incorporate rewards into AW victory bonuses.
Honestly, I don't see a world in which that's gonna happen. If Seasons are scrapped, those rewards will be too. The reason that the Season's rewards can be as good as they are is because of how competitive the game mode is.
@Kabam Miike I'm pretty sure you are only one here who thinks season rewards are good. Platinum3 is where my alliance is and it's still a competitive bracket and season rewards are like 5k t5b, some t2a fragments and couple of 5* and 6* shards. Compare that with any other contest ( AQ, EQ....) and tell me how amount of organisation, boosts, potions, time.... in AW is worth it, please.
OP can you explain why alliances should play wars for real and use expensive potions to clear bosses or hard nodes right before a season begins?
They don't have to if they don't want to, before everyone started tanking we had a "no item use" policy during off-season. But currently there is no option to play war during off-season, because doing so will make you indirectly give up on your season rewards (we are a Plat 1 ally, and we would end up in Gold just from losing constantly to Master allies during the season, when we should've been matched up with other Plat alliances).
To be clear, yanking isn’t cheating... it is an attempt to gain a competitive advantage through legal means... just like a football team sitting their starters the last week of the season if they are already in the playoffs...
There are multiple ways to solve this “problem”. The nfl rearranged the schedule such that it is less likely a teams playoff standing will be guaranteed going into the last week. In this game, that would amount to making the off season more enticing to play. Another option would be to make dropping tiers severely detrimental, something like a bigger multiplier difference between tiers, and accumulating point bonus for each war in a tier, etc. you could also lock tiers during war season, so if you tank you are unable to climb until the next offseason, though the math may not check out on that one...
If tanking is a competitive advantage Kabam wants to do away with, they should look at these options... but in reality, it isn’t cheating
The analogy of football teams sitting their starters breaks down very quickly. NFL teams don't rest their starters so they can get to play college teams. Manipulating your war rating so that you can get mismatched against lower alliances, whether by tanking or switching to a shell alliance, is garbage. I hope Kabam figures out a way to stop it. Having said that, there is no reason to go all out with boosts and items during the offseason. There is a difference between not using items and losing intentionally by not placing defenders.
Just wanted to drop in to let you know that we understand how important this is to everybody, and that we are aware of the situation. Unfortunately, as you can all see from just the discussions here, it is not an easy one to solve. We don't want to implement anything that will punish Alliance's playing fairly and competitively.
At this time, we don't have any plans that we're ready to implement, but are not ignoring this behaviour.
1. Implement a personal war rating for each summoner just like how you do with prestige. The war rating for each summoner would carry over from season to season and the alliance war rating would be the average of all the members. The alliance war rating will now remain the same no matter what alliance the 30 members swap to.
2. Freeze war rating changes during the off-season. Off-season wars should be just for match rewards with no changes to ratings.
I believe these changes would solve both shell swapping and off-season tanking.
I actually liked the old way the alliance wars went when there weren't seasons. Yeah, we don't get those huge rewards, but honestly, is it really worth it? You can now get t5bc AND t2a from the glory store and that's honestly all that people liked out of the season rewards I think...
Honestly, I would love to see seasons get axed altogether.
IMO, AW seasons is a direct contradiction to the changes made to AQ. Kabam introduced the ability to have different maps in AQ to have more flexibility and allow "friends of different skills and sizes" to play together. AW seasons are designed to push more competition and AW maps require all players to be able to clear their own paths (at least in Tier 10+). In order for players to clear their paths, they typically need to be a similar size/skill to their alliance mates.
So it forces players to decide between playing with their friends (AQ) or picking allies that have the rewards they want AW.
Want to stop tanking remove season rewards. End of story.
That's the 90% solution. The 99% solution is to eliminate alliance war. The 100% solution is to eliminate the game.
110% solution is to create anarchy and fight in real life with superpowers developed by technology, radiation, the power of the cosmos,magic, and pure ninja skill.
Easier solution. Scrap seasons and incorporate rewards into AW victory bonuses.
Honestly, I don't see a world in which that's gonna happen. If Seasons are scrapped, those rewards will be too. The reason that the Season's rewards can be as good as they are is because of how competitive the game mode is.
@Kabam Miike I'm pretty sure you are only one here who thinks season rewards are good. Platinum3 is where my alliance is and it's still a competitive bracket and season rewards are like 5k t5b, some t2a fragments and couple of 5* and 6* shards. Compare that with any other contest ( AQ, EQ....) and tell me how amount of organisation, boosts, potions, time.... in AW is worth it, please.
Every alliance that is placing at least in the Gold brackets or higher either thinks the rewards are reasonable for the effort, or is completely insane.
Want to stop tanking remove season rewards. End of story.
That's the 90% solution. The 99% solution is to eliminate alliance war. The 100% solution is to eliminate the game.
110% solution is to create anarchy and fight in real life with superpowers developed by technology, radiation, the power of the cosmos,magic, and pure ninja skill.
That's not the solution to rating manipulation, that's the solution to life itself.
Want to stop tanking remove season rewards. End of story.
That's the 90% solution. The 99% solution is to eliminate alliance war. The 100% solution is to eliminate the game.
110% solution is to create anarchy and fight in real life with superpowers developed by technology, radiation, the power of the cosmos,magic, and pure ninja skill.
That's not the solution to rating manipulation, that's the solution to life itself.
But with my solution there is no need for the game
Just wanted to drop in to let you know that we understand how important this is to everybody, and that we are aware of the situation. Unfortunately, as you can all see from just the discussions here, it is not an easy one to solve. We don't want to implement anything that will punish Alliance's playing fairly and competitively.
At this time, we don't have any plans that we're ready to implement, but are not ignoring this behaviour.
1. Implement a personal war rating for each summoner just like how you do with prestige. The war rating for each summoner would carry over from season to season and the alliance war rating would be the average of all the members. The alliance war rating will now remain the same no matter what alliance the 30 members swap to.
2. Freeze war rating changes during the off-season. Off-season wars should be just for match rewards with no changes to ratings.
I believe these changes would solve both shell swapping and off-season tanking.
It creates other problems. Beyond the obvious - alliances can no longer try to improve their tier during the off season - it creates other problems when it comes to normal recruitment and replacing members. Suppose an alliance loses a couple players to retirement, and finds two new players to replace them. But these players came from an alliance that didn't fight alliance wars. They have a personal war rating of zero, and instantly drag down the alliance's tier. Which might cause alliances to not give such players as much of a chance during recruitment.
To be clear, yanking isn’t cheating... it is an attempt to gain a competitive advantage through legal means... just like a football team sitting their starters the last week of the season if they are already in the playoffs...
There are multiple ways to solve this “problem”. The nfl rearranged the schedule such that it is less likely a teams playoff standing will be guaranteed going into the last week. In this game, that would amount to making the off season more enticing to play. Another option would be to make dropping tiers severely detrimental, something like a bigger multiplier difference between tiers, and accumulating point bonus for each war in a tier, etc. you could also lock tiers during war season, so if you tank you are unable to climb until the next offseason, though the math may not check out on that one...
If tanking is a competitive advantage Kabam wants to do away with, they should look at these options... but in reality, it isn’t cheating
The analogy of football teams sitting their starters breaks down very quickly. NFL teams don't rest their starters so they can get to play college teams. Manipulating your war rating so that you can get mismatched against lower alliances, whether by tanking or switching to a shell alliance, is garbage. I hope Kabam figures out a way to stop it. Having said that, there is no reason to go all out with boosts and items during the offseason. There is a difference between not using items and losing intentionally by not placing defenders.
They sit their starters to maximize the potential of a better end of season result. There is no difference. Same as tanking in the NBA for a better draft pick etc...
I personally don't like tanking in offseason but it's not cheating the system. It's a strategy
That’s the dumbest thing ever, just because you don’t like the grind and like the intense stressful competition, some of us do. They already said they’re not Axing season rewards so you can just drop that altogether.. that is not a fix..
The fix is Freezing AW ratings in Offseason. Tanking offseason FIXED.
That’s the dumbest thing ever, just because you don’t like the grind and like the intense stressful competition, some of us do. They already said they’re not Axing season rewards so you can just drop that altogether.. that is not a fix..
The fix is Freezing AW ratings in Offseason. Tanking offseason FIXED.
I've already stated why that won't work either. No one in the competitive tiers is gonna devote time and resources to offseason wars. They'll do the same thing but just join attack and not explore to get the loss rewards
All freezing war ratings will do is punish alliances trying to move up during offseason
They should move during the season when everyone is serious . Off season freezing will not hurt anyone except some shell alliance swappers
Just saying it isn't convincing. I'll demonstrate. Off season freezing does in fact hurt lots of alliances, not just shell swappers.
But your own words support the idea. You say alliances should only change rating "when everyone is serious." Meaning you think it is easier to win wars during the off season when many alliances aren't putting in as much effort. Meaning any alliance that wants to move up will find it easier to do so during the off season. Which means freezing rating during the off season will prevent them from doing so, which is demonstrably harmful.
Comments
I'm not for scrapping AW seasons either. The rewards need a revamp soon at the same scale of AQ, but the competiveness is something this game was lacking prior. We have yet to see how this next season will play out with the new matchmaking system but seeing tanking as the biggest determient rather than colluding search times is a good step forward.
There are multiple ways to solve this “problem”. The nfl rearranged the schedule such that it is less likely a teams playoff standing will be guaranteed going into the last week. In this game, that would amount to making the off season more enticing to play. Another option would be to make dropping tiers severely detrimental, something like a bigger multiplier difference between tiers, and accumulating point bonus for each war in a tier, etc. you could also lock tiers during war season, so if you tank you are unable to climb until the next offseason, though the math may not check out on that one...
If tanking is a competitive advantage Kabam wants to do away with, they should look at these options... but in reality, it isn’t cheating
Also most teams want to save potions for when war season is on.
But why are people complaining about tanking. Are you sorry you won a war? There are bigger things to fix. We need lower timers for example. The game take up way to much time to play and this ain’t fun.
This wouldn't fix anything. Those at the top would still match, not bother placing, and then join to just get loss rewards.
No one in the upper tiers is gonna waste time and resources on offseason wars
@Kabam Miike I'm pretty sure you are only one here who thinks season rewards are good. Platinum3 is where my alliance is and it's still a competitive bracket and season rewards are like 5k t5b, some t2a fragments and couple of 5* and 6* shards. Compare that with any other contest ( AQ, EQ....) and tell me how amount of organisation, boosts, potions, time.... in AW is worth it, please.
Easiest fix ever..
Plus with map 7 being easier for some, better rewards , and can die to your hearts content 15 items, war will drop off at the current rewards
They don't have to if they don't want to, before everyone started tanking we had a "no item use" policy during off-season. But currently there is no option to play war during off-season, because doing so will make you indirectly give up on your season rewards (we are a Plat 1 ally, and we would end up in Gold just from losing constantly to Master allies during the season, when we should've been matched up with other Plat alliances).
The analogy of football teams sitting their starters breaks down very quickly. NFL teams don't rest their starters so they can get to play college teams. Manipulating your war rating so that you can get mismatched against lower alliances, whether by tanking or switching to a shell alliance, is garbage. I hope Kabam figures out a way to stop it. Having said that, there is no reason to go all out with boosts and items during the offseason. There is a difference between not using items and losing intentionally by not placing defenders.
@Kabam Miike
How about this:
1. Implement a personal war rating for each summoner just like how you do with prestige. The war rating for each summoner would carry over from season to season and the alliance war rating would be the average of all the members. The alliance war rating will now remain the same no matter what alliance the 30 members swap to.
2. Freeze war rating changes during the off-season. Off-season wars should be just for match rewards with no changes to ratings.
I believe these changes would solve both shell swapping and off-season tanking.
IMO, AW seasons is a direct contradiction to the changes made to AQ. Kabam introduced the ability to have different maps in AQ to have more flexibility and allow "friends of different skills and sizes" to play together. AW seasons are designed to push more competition and AW maps require all players to be able to clear their own paths (at least in Tier 10+). In order for players to clear their paths, they typically need to be a similar size/skill to their alliance mates.
So it forces players to decide between playing with their friends (AQ) or picking allies that have the rewards they want AW.
That's the 90% solution. The 99% solution is to eliminate alliance war. The 100% solution is to eliminate the game.
110% solution is to create anarchy and fight in real life with superpowers developed by technology, radiation, the power of the cosmos,magic, and pure ninja skill.
Every alliance that is placing at least in the Gold brackets or higher either thinks the rewards are reasonable for the effort, or is completely insane.
That's not the solution to rating manipulation, that's the solution to life itself.
But with my solution there is no need for the game
It creates other problems. Beyond the obvious - alliances can no longer try to improve their tier during the off season - it creates other problems when it comes to normal recruitment and replacing members. Suppose an alliance loses a couple players to retirement, and finds two new players to replace them. But these players came from an alliance that didn't fight alliance wars. They have a personal war rating of zero, and instantly drag down the alliance's tier. Which might cause alliances to not give such players as much of a chance during recruitment.
They sit their starters to maximize the potential of a better end of season result. There is no difference. Same as tanking in the NBA for a better draft pick etc...
I personally don't like tanking in offseason but it's not cheating the system. It's a strategy
The fix is Freezing AW ratings in Offseason. Tanking offseason FIXED.
I've already stated why that won't work either. No one in the competitive tiers is gonna devote time and resources to offseason wars. They'll do the same thing but just join attack and not explore to get the loss rewards
They should move during the season when everyone is serious . Off season freezing will not hurt anyone except some shell alliance swappers
Just saying it isn't convincing. I'll demonstrate. Off season freezing does in fact hurt lots of alliances, not just shell swappers.
But your own words support the idea. You say alliances should only change rating "when everyone is serious." Meaning you think it is easier to win wars during the off season when many alliances aren't putting in as much effort. Meaning any alliance that wants to move up will find it easier to do so during the off season. Which means freezing rating during the off season will prevent them from doing so, which is demonstrably harmful.