New buffet nodes in AW

Just wondering but do we know why the new regen nodes are healing from champions multiplied health and not their base health anymore?

Seeing champions heal for 80k is a bit much
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Comments

  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★

    Just wondering but do we know why the new regen nodes are healing from champions multiplied health and not their base health anymore?

    Seeing champions heal for 80k is a bit much

    Buffet has always done their boosted health if I remember but ye now with higher tiers definitely need to bring heal block/reversal champs
  • StrStr Posts: 547 ★★
    I am not on this path so i didn't notice. Win for void but a loss for every other champ to face them.
  • Msyounus1288Msyounus1288 Posts: 221 ★★
    cap iw with a tech champ works fine for both vigor and buffet in tier 2.
  • Lvernon15Lvernon15 Posts: 9,797 ★★★★★
    Buffet is a % heal and always has been, so it’s max health
  • Harbinger195Harbinger195 Posts: 84
    Yeah but what I'm saying is I always thought it was supposed to be the max health of the champion not the boosted health because I'm sure there it was commented on before the AW change a few seasons ago by Kabam Mike that, that is how these nodes were supposed to work.


    So it calculates what the max health of a champion is when the champion is placed on that node for defence, then the boost is applied not the other way round.

    Could just be my memory mistaking another comment mind but I am pretty sure I am correct
  • GamerGamer Posts: 6,807 ★★★★★

    Yeah but what I'm saying is I always thought it was supposed to be the max health of the champion not the boosted health because I'm sure there it was commented on before the AW change a few seasons ago by Kabam Mike that, that is how these nodes were supposed to work.


    So it calculates what the max health of a champion is when the champion is placed on that node for defence, then the boost is applied not the other way round.

    Could just be my memory mistaking another comment mind but I am pretty sure I am correct

    Nope only normal helling from Wp and dr voodoo ect node. Works defrind.
  • Yeah but what I'm saying is I always thought it was supposed to be the max health of the champion not the boosted health because I'm sure there it was commented on before the AW change a few seasons ago by Kabam Mike that, that is how these nodes were supposed to work.


    So it calculates what the max health of a champion is when the champion is placed on that node for defence, then the boost is applied not the other way round.

    Could just be my memory mistaking another comment mind but I am pretty sure I am correct

    @Harbinger195 It's the max health of the champ at the start of the fight. So the node boosts are indeed included. It has always been this way for as far as I can remember. Plus, the regen boost seems to interact with Buffet (or Masochism). So for example if it says regen 5% HP per Buff, in the case of Buffet and +150% regen, it would equate too 12.5% health gained per Buff once all is said and done. Boosting something 100% is essentially doubling it. 150% would be adding 1.5× the original amount, so an additional 7.5%.

    I've checked the math on this in regards to health gain on these nodes in the past and it adds up. So, you look at the total health the Champion has entering the match. Let's say it's 65k just as an example. 12.5% of 65k would be 8,125. That's about the average outcome for a 5* R5 placed on node #42 in AW Challenger Map. Also, I think you meant 8k health per Buff as no champ would have the health pool required to regen 80k on Buffet in AW. They'd need 650k HP from the start of the fight to get 80k.
  • Harbinger195Harbinger195 Posts: 84
    @SiriusBreak No I really did mean 80k I have both seen and been shown r4 and r5 champions going from 1% health to 100% from one proc of the heal that's what I don't understand. The only way for that to occur is for the heal itself to be recieveing a buff which just seems like a bug to me.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,291 ★★★★★

    @SiriusBreak No I really did mean 80k I have both seen and been shown r4 and r5 champions going from 1% health to 100% from one proc of the heal that's what I don't understand. The only way for that to occur is for the heal itself to be recieveing a buff which just seems like a bug to me.

    You are not paying attention to what is happening. I would love to see this video with the nodes and such. I cannot think of a situation where kabam has made a node that the buffet alone took them to full health. That being said champions can get more health than the % with talents.
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★

    Yeah but what I'm saying is I always thought it was supposed to be the max health of the champion not the boosted health because I'm sure there it was commented on before the AW change a few seasons ago by Kabam Mike that, that is how these nodes were supposed to work.


    So it calculates what the max health of a champion is when the champion is placed on that node for defence, then the boost is applied not the other way round.

    Could just be my memory mistaking another comment mind but I am pretty sure I am correct

    @Harbinger195 It's the max health of the champ at the start of the fight. So the node boosts are indeed included. It has always been this way for as far as I can remember. Plus, the regen boost seems to interact with Buffet (or Masochism). So for example if it says regen 5% HP per Buff, in the case of Buffet and +150% regen, it would equate too 12.5% health gained per Buff once all is said and done. Boosting something 100% is essentially doubling it. 150% would be adding 1.5× the original amount, so an additional 7.5%.

    I've checked the math on this in regards to health gain on these nodes in the past and it adds up. So, you look at the total health the Champion has entering the match. Let's say it's 65k just as an example. 12.5% of 65k would be 8,125. That's about the average outcome for a 5* R5 placed on node #42 in AW Challenger Map. Also, I think you meant 8k health per Buff as no champ would have the health pool required to regen 80k on Buffet in AW. They'd need 650k HP from the start of the fight to get 80k.
    No as a 15% buffet plus 200% recovery is pretty much 50 health
  • Kobster84 said:

    Yeah but what I'm saying is I always thought it was supposed to be the max health of the champion not the boosted health because I'm sure there it was commented on before the AW change a few seasons ago by Kabam Mike that, that is how these nodes were supposed to work.


    So it calculates what the max health of a champion is when the champion is placed on that node for defence, then the boost is applied not the other way round.

    Could just be my memory mistaking another comment mind but I am pretty sure I am correct

    @Harbinger195 It's the max health of the champ at the start of the fight. So the node boosts are indeed included. It has always been this way for as far as I can remember. Plus, the regen boost seems to interact with Buffet (or Masochism). So for example if it says regen 5% HP per Buff, in the case of Buffet and +150% regen, it would equate too 12.5% health gained per Buff once all is said and done. Boosting something 100% is essentially doubling it. 150% would be adding 1.5× the original amount, so an additional 7.5%.

    I've checked the math on this in regards to health gain on these nodes in the past and it adds up. So, you look at the total health the Champion has entering the match. Let's say it's 65k just as an example. 12.5% of 65k would be 8,125. That's about the average outcome for a 5* R5 placed on node #42 in AW Challenger Map. Also, I think you meant 8k health per Buff as no champ would have the health pool required to regen 80k on Buffet in AW. They'd need 650k HP from the start of the fight to get 80k.
    No as a 15% buffet plus 200% recovery is pretty much 50 health
    Did you happen to read the part where I said Challenger AW #42 or did you just gloss over that part??



    That's node #42 (Local and Outgoing List the same thing) in Challenger Map (tier 4 for us).

    #42 in Expert is listed as Lazarus, not Buffet. Although that is in the early release info so it could've changed. So, if it were in fact 15% per Buff on Buffet increased by +200% regen that's 30%. As the node also provides +200% Champion Boost and +100% Health Boost, that would equate too +300% HP from Base HP. If base HP is 30k (average health pool of a 5* R5 or 6* R2 give or take a couple thousand, but this is for illustrative purposes), then the health would be 90k post node increase. At 30% HP per Buff that would be 27k gained per Buff. So I have no idea where anyone is getting 80k or 50. Neither adds up. If it is Lazarus, and not Buffet, then we're talking a whole different situation.
  • @SiriusBreak No I really did mean 80k I have both seen and been shown r4 and r5 champions going from 1% health to 100% from one proc of the heal that's what I don't understand. The only way for that to occur is for the heal itself to be recieveing a buff which just seems like a bug to me.

    I've never seen this personally, nor have I heard of this happening. If it did, perhaps you were fighting someone using mods because that's not how the node is supposed to function. I broke it all down above, and that's how it's supposed to work. I've seen vids of my Alliance mates taking #42 down and never once have I seen 80k HP.

    Perhaps if you throw in an extra 15% increase (from the Recovery Mastery maxed out) to the overall situation of 30% HP per Buff, that only raises it too 34.5% per Buff. At 90k HP in the aforementioned situation, that would be at MAX 31,050 HP per Buff (on a Buffet with 15%, +200% regen, +200% Champion Boost, +100% Health Boost).

    For clarification, which Tier is your Alliance in @Harbinger195 ??? I can give you full breakdowns of any situation provided I know the numbers involved. 80k should not be happening. So you're for sure seeing something funky if that is happening. If you can, record a fight on the node in question. I'd be very interested to see this in action.
  • Msyounus1288Msyounus1288 Posts: 221 ★★
    edited July 2019

  • Msyounus1288Msyounus1288 Posts: 221 ★★
    Drooped2 said:

    The math doesnt seem right that its possible but I cant debate a pic.

    Ponders I run the line with an r5 aa r void generally so the regen never was apperent..

    Usually at the start of the fight when I only have 1 petrify and weakness up with cap iw I still occasionally see 25k+ regen if I accidentally dex with max despair.
  • @Msyounus1288 node 42 in Challenger? If so, that's wild. None of my guys have reported such crazy regen to me. I'll have my lane runner in my BG record the fight today and see if this happens.
    Drooped2 said:

    The math doesnt seem right that its possible but I cant debate a pic.

    Ponders I run the line with an r5 aa r void generally so the regen never was apperent..

    Now reading that, I just remembered he runs that lane with a 5* R5 Void as well. Although the node has Indomitable on it so FOTV and 2× Petrify should just heal block the regen. I'll have to ask all 3 BG lane runners what they've seen now. If they haven't seen this, something is glitching or bugged. As it clearly doesn't happen consistently if some have it happen and some don't (or... mods).
  • Msyounus1288Msyounus1288 Posts: 221 ★★

    @Msyounus1288 node 42 in Challenger? If so, that's wild. None of my guys have reported such crazy regen to me. I'll have my lane runner in my BG record the fight today and see if this happens.

    Drooped2 said:

    The math doesnt seem right that its possible but I cant debate a pic.

    Ponders I run the line with an r5 aa r void generally so the regen never was apperent..

    Now reading that, I just remembered he runs that lane with a 5* R5 Void as well. Although the node has Indomitable on it so FOTV and 2× Petrify should just heal block the regen. I'll have to ask all 3 BG lane runners what they've seen now. If they haven't seen this, something is glitching or bugged. As it clearly doesn't happen consistently if some have it happen and some don't (or... mods).
    Im running that path this war so I’ll trigger buffet on purpose without petrify up and record the fight. I’ll post it here.
  • Cool @Msyounus1288 . Good looks. I'm really curious about this whole situation now. I just sent messages to all 3 players who run that lane/node in my Alliance to get back to me about their experiences with this. Considering no one has ever complained and often 1 shot the fight on #42, it was hard for me to fathom this. Just the same, stranger things have happened in this game.
  • Harbinger195Harbinger195 Posts: 84
    @Msyounus1288 mad credit to you. My game never seems to play right when I record on my phone so amazing job being able to find the proof for what I was talking about during season. Seriously nice work.

    @SiriusBreak my alliance is t2 expert tier. Has happened pretty much every war so far. But much appriciation for the fact finding your doing, and crunching all the numbers.

    Amazing to see people like you two really being able to dig Into stuff like this. I'm sure the community appriciate the effort.
  • Hopefully we can zero in on what's going on here. Something just doesn't seem right. Looking at that image above, and looking at the numbers I came up with... it's almost literally doubled. That's funky. Once I get the screenshots and videos from my Alliance mates I'll be able to analyze how it's functioning in Challenger.

    If the numbers add up there, then they should by all accounts should function the same in Expert. Just a bit higher as the Buffet is 15% vs 5%, and the regen boost is 200% instead of 150%. I'll report what I find later on. I did these numbers with a similar node in the previous Map and they matched what we saw in game. So the equation I'm using is correct. Something still just doesn't add up here.
  • Ok, I missed 1 detail, but even when I corrected it, it still is coming out around 40k per node Buff in Expert (with a fairly high Base HP mind you). Something doesn't add up right, at all. Ok, here's a real example in Challenger from a war today.

    5* R4 Korg on Node #42
    Base HP - 25,172
    Node Boosted HP - 84,608
    Regen per Buff removed (vs Blade) - 10,976

    Which essentially adds up with the equation I utilize. So, correcting my numbers, average health pool for a higher health champ 5* R5 on #42 in Expert would be 140k. So, let's put my 5* R5 CAIW on this node, and do the math.

    5* R5 CAIW on Node #42 (Expert)
    Base HP - 35,943
    Node Boosted HP - 143,772
    Regen per Buff removed @ 30% (15% Buffet & +200% Regen Boost) - 43,131
    Regen per Buff removed @ 34.5% (Maxed Recovery Mastery with Node Buffs) - 49,601.34 (which I do not use BTW)

    Neither are anywhere NEAR 64k, let alone 80k. So let's dig a little deeper. I found a 6* R2 Cull Obsidian in a P1 Alliance. Let's throw this heaping pile of muscle in this equation and see what the numbers come out as...

    6* R2 Cull Obsidian on Node #42 (Expert)
    Base HP - 36,481
    Node Boosted HP - 145,924
    Regen per Buff removed @ 30% - 43,7777

    So let's go 1 step further and use the 5* R5 Havok pictured above. The Base HP number was pulled directly from that player's Havok.

    5* R5 Havok on Node #42 (Expert)
    Base HP - 30,078
    Node Boosted HP - 120,312
    Regen per Buff removed @ 30% - 36,094

    Now, let's revisit the Korg from earlier. I did the boost math and it was slightly different from what was displayed on the screen. Although I can wager a guess as to why (which I'll cover in the next paragraph).

    5* R4 Korg
    Base HP - 25,172
    Node Boosted HP (150% & 75%) - 81,809

    So MAYBE they turn off Suicides for placement, or add points in Health Masteries. Either could account for the 2.8k differential in HP numbers (84,608 is what was shown in the fight start screen). Now, using 84,608 as the health number, you get 10,576 at 12.5% per Buff removed (5% Buffet and +150% Regen Boost). Which is EXTREMELY close to the 10,976 displayed on screen when the Buff was removed and the regen occurred. So by all accounts, that proves Node #42 in Challenger is functioning correctly. However, all examples provided above also show there's something seriously wrong with Node #42 in Expert if you ask me.

    So, I'm very confused how it would display 64k, let alone 80k as mentioned prior by @Harbinger195 . It makes no sense. Either something is bugged in regards to node #42 in Expert AW, or there's a LOT of players using mods that place there. I'm using the numbers provided in game for both Challenger and Expert. Those are the only reasons I can account for such a gross difference in numbers. Somewhere in the code, someone entered a wrong value it would seem in regard to that node. Provided if this happens everytime, or just a lot of cheaters. Cannot say for sure which is the case.

    Once we get a video from a fight in Expert on that node, I'll gladly break it down. Perhaps there's something I missing. Although from what I can see, I'm not missing anything now. This is VERY odd and troubling if there's been a bug on this node all Season. I would for sure lean towards a bug if this node is similar to one in Expert on the prior Map. The regen values are much higher than they used to be one would assume as I do not recall this being brought up before now (not to say it hasn't as I may have missed it).
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★

    Kobster84 said:

    Yeah but what I'm saying is I always thought it was supposed to be the max health of the champion not the boosted health because I'm sure there it was commented on before the AW change a few seasons ago by Kabam Mike that, that is how these nodes were supposed to work.


    So it calculates what the max health of a champion is when the champion is placed on that node for defence, then the boost is applied not the other way round.

    Could just be my memory mistaking another comment mind but I am pretty sure I am correct

    @Harbinger195 It's the max health of the champ at the start of the fight. So the node boosts are indeed included. It has always been this way for as far as I can remember. Plus, the regen boost seems to interact with Buffet (or Masochism). So for example if it says regen 5% HP per Buff, in the case of Buffet and +150% regen, it would equate too 12.5% health gained per Buff once all is said and done. Boosting something 100% is essentially doubling it. 150% would be adding 1.5× the original amount, so an additional 7.5%.

    I've checked the math on this in regards to health gain on these nodes in the past and it adds up. So, you look at the total health the Champion has entering the match. Let's say it's 65k just as an example. 12.5% of 65k would be 8,125. That's about the average outcome for a 5* R5 placed on node #42 in AW Challenger Map. Also, I think you meant 8k health per Buff as no champ would have the health pool required to regen 80k on Buffet in AW. They'd need 650k HP from the start of the fight to get 80k.
    No as a 15% buffet plus 200% recovery is pretty much 50 health
    Did you happen to read the part where I said Challenger AW #42 or did you just gloss over that part??



    That's node #42 (Local and Outgoing List the same thing) in Challenger Map (tier 4 for us).

    #42 in Expert is listed as Lazarus, not Buffet. Although that is in the early release info so it could've changed. So, if it were in fact 15% per Buff on Buffet increased by +200% regen that's 30%. As the node also provides +200% Champion Boost and +100% Health Boost, that would equate too +300% HP from Base HP. If base HP is 30k (average health pool of a 5* R5 or 6* R2 give or take a couple thousand, but this is for illustrative purposes), then the health would be 90k post node increase. At 30% HP per Buff that would be 27k gained per Buff. So I have no idea where anyone is getting 80k or 50. Neither adds up. If it is Lazarus, and not Buffet, then we're talking a whole different situation.
    In my tier it’s 15% anyway and plus the 200% regen node that’s a 45% buffet
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★
    If it’s healing more then that than hope it gets fixed
  • Msyounus1288Msyounus1288 Posts: 221 ★★


  • SpeedbumpSpeedbump Posts: 1,354 ★★★
    Looks legit, i hope it stays this way.
  • Msyounus1288Msyounus1288 Posts: 221 ★★
    Close to 60k against blade. I was able to get him down right after that with a 85k sp2 so the regen didn’t matter too much but those numbers are pretty insane
  • Harbinger195Harbinger195 Posts: 84
    @Kabam Miike by any chance are you able to shed some light onto what we are seeing?
  • Harbinger195Harbinger195 Posts: 84
    It does seem like there is another multiplier at work but for the life of me I cannot figure it out
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