She-Hulk Heavy Speed Bug Fix [Title Edited for Clarity]

This is absolutely terrible. People ranked her for that reason only. She had a unique ability that’s absolutely not op, but of course Kabam has to nerf her...

Comments

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jnikolas92

3 years, people didn't care about it because there wasn't content to be bypassed with it.
Your choice of the word “bypassed” is telling.

If you watch KT1 burning revive after revive on 6.2.6 Champion trying to figure out how to beat him, there’s no bypassing. And I’d bet he went at least a few rounds trying to get She-Hulk to work even after he found her as an option.

If you watched my fights with She-Hulk against 6.2.6 Champion, there’s no bypassing—a lot of trial and error after hours of practicing duels against Champion. And more revives used than I’d care to acknowledge.

This wasn’t a cheat code. To suggest anything is “bypassed”is flat wrong.

Dr. Zola
Bypass means get through easier than intended.
What u see in videos is after ppl trying a lot of times to pull off a perfect run. Cannot call it bypassing until you really try it yourself.

I saw a video where Ghost 1 shot 6.2.2 Sinister. I thought wow, smooth and posibly easy. I tried so hard many times but couldn't do it bc of lack of skill along with that I don't have Heimdall for synergy.

Again, you shouldn't talk about the Champion's fight when you haven't really experienced it. The fact that you haven't completed 6.2 but wanted to shut down opinions about SH's performance in there from other players who have at least completed 1 run is just unreasonable and arrogant.
I'm not shutting anything down. People can say what they want. I can also add my own points.
We had the same arguments with other Champs. "It's not that easy.". Had that most recently with Cull. We were still talking about something that wasn't intended. There's no logical reason to keep a bug.

I think what you're saying is fair. I don't think any of us should disagree with the actual fix. It is fair.

The issue with us is how its been handled, and the unwillingness to rectify how summoners were affected by how theyve handled it.

HeavyBr3athing

That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"

The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.

World Eater

Speak with your wallets ; don’t spend

They’ve shown they can’t be trusted once again. Dropping a stealth nerf in the patch notes is downright underhanded. Next thing you know they’ll say backdraft intercepting and MLLLM combos weren’t intended. So much for transparency and QA. They can change anything they want and there’s nothing we can do about it.

Lormif

3 years, people didn't care about it because there wasn't content to be bypassed with it.
Your choice of the word “bypassed” is telling.

If you watch KT1 burning revive after revive on 6.2.6 Champion trying to figure out how to beat him, there’s no bypassing. And I’d bet he went at least a few rounds trying to get She-Hulk to work even after he found her as an option.

If you watched my fights with She-Hulk against 6.2.6 Champion, there’s no bypassing—a lot of trial and error after hours of practicing duels against Champion. And more revives used than I’d care to acknowledge.

This wasn’t a cheat code. To suggest anything is “bypassed”is flat wrong.

Dr. Zola
Bypass means get through easier than intended.
What u see in videos is after ppl trying a lot of times to pull off a perfect run. Cannot call it bypassing until you really try it yourself.

I saw a video where Ghost 1 shot 6.2.2 Sinister. I thought wow, smooth and posibly easy. I tried so hard many times but couldn't do it bc of lack of skill along with that I don't have Heimdall for synergy.

Again, you shouldn't talk about the Champion's fight when you haven't really experienced it. The fact that you haven't completed 6.2 but wanted to shut down opinions about SH's performance in there from other players who have at least completed 1 run is just unreasonable and arrogant.
I'm not shutting anything down. People can say what they want. I can also add my own points.
We had the same arguments with other Champs. "It's not that easy.". Had that most recently with Cull. We were still talking about something that wasn't intended. There's no logical reason to keep a bug.
I think what you're saying is fair. I don't think any of us should disagree with the actual fix. It is fair.

The issue with us is how its been handled, and the unwillingness to rectify how summoners were affected by how theyve handled it.

The compensation request is fair, but a lot of the people in here are, and would still be, angry even with it.

juand1313

Coming up

Quake: Fixed an issue where you can hold heavy attack indefinitely.

What a complete joke this is...

Agentk24

3 years, people didn't care about it because there wasn't content to be bypassed with it.
Your choice of the word “bypassed” is telling.

If you watch KT1 burning revive after revive on 6.2.6 Champion trying to figure out how to beat him, there’s no bypassing. And I’d bet he went at least a few rounds trying to get She-Hulk to work even after he found her as an option.

If you watched my fights with She-Hulk against 6.2.6 Champion, there’s no bypassing—a lot of trial and error after hours of practicing duels against Champion. And more revives used than I’d care to acknowledge.

This wasn’t a cheat code. To suggest anything is “bypassed”is flat wrong.

Dr. Zola
Bypass means get through easier than intended.
What u see in videos is after ppl trying a lot of times to pull off a perfect run. Cannot call it bypassing until you really try it yourself.

I saw a video where Ghost 1 shot 6.2.2 Sinister. I thought wow, smooth and posibly easy. I tried so hard many times but couldn't do it bc of lack of skill along with that I don't have Heimdall for synergy.

Again, you shouldn't talk about the Champion's fight when you haven't really experienced it. The fact that you haven't completed 6.2 but wanted to shut down opinions about SH's performance in there from other players who have at least completed 1 run is just unreasonable and arrogant.
I'm not shutting anything down. People can say what they want. I can also add my own points.
We had the same arguments with other Champs. "It's not that easy.". Had that most recently with Cull. We were still talking about something that wasn't intended. There's no logical reason to keep a bug.
I think what you're saying is fair. I don't think any of us should disagree with the actual fix. It is fair.

The issue with us is how its been handled, and the unwillingness to rectify how summoners were affected by how theyve handled it.
The compensation request is fair, but a lot of the people in here are, and would still be, angry even with it.

They would be and rightfully so but the compensation would be the right thing to do

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GroundedWisdom

That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"

The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.

So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right.
It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.

A_pizZa_plate

Kabam Miike said:
Hey everybody,

We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.

This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.

We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.

So i guess Wasp description mention she can chain combos into heavy

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jnikolas92

3 years, people didn't care about it because there wasn't content to be bypassed with it.
Your choice of the word “bypassed” is telling.

If you watch KT1 burning revive after revive on 6.2.6 Champion trying to figure out how to beat him, there’s no bypassing. And I’d bet he went at least a few rounds trying to get She-Hulk to work even after he found her as an option.

If you watched my fights with She-Hulk against 6.2.6 Champion, there’s no bypassing—a lot of trial and error after hours of practicing duels against Champion. And more revives used than I’d care to acknowledge.

This wasn’t a cheat code. To suggest anything is “bypassed”is flat wrong.

Dr. Zola
Bypass means get through easier than intended.
What u see in videos is after ppl trying a lot of times to pull off a perfect run. Cannot call it bypassing until you really try it yourself.

I saw a video where Ghost 1 shot 6.2.2 Sinister. I thought wow, smooth and posibly easy. I tried so hard many times but couldn't do it bc of lack of skill along with that I don't have Heimdall for synergy.

Again, you shouldn't talk about the Champion's fight when you haven't really experienced it. The fact that you haven't completed 6.2 but wanted to shut down opinions about SH's performance in there from other players who have at least completed 1 run is just unreasonable and arrogant.
I'm not shutting anything down. People can say what they want. I can also add my own points.
We had the same arguments with other Champs. "It's not that easy.". Had that most recently with Cull. We were still talking about something that wasn't intended. There's no logical reason to keep a bug.
I think what you're saying is fair. I don't think any of us should disagree with the actual fix. It is fair.

The issue with us is how its been handled, and the unwillingness to rectify how summoners were affected by how theyve handled it.
The compensation request is fair, but a lot of the people in here are, and would still be, angry even with it.

haha i don't disagree with you at all there. unfortunately that's just the nature of "any?" gaming community. can't say that the people who play this game aren't passionate.

im just struggling to understand how they've carried on with the situation. the cleanest resolution (and most logical imo) is a champion specific RDT. we move on after that.

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Duke_Silver

There has to be a better way to roll out things like this. Kabam at least needs to consult feedback from people before they go and announce these changes. Why can’t that be done? Why not use something like the summoner’s sanctum to ask people for their thoughts on it and give them an opportunity to explain their feedback. This is more than a “bug fix” because it genuinely negatively impacts so many players. I would imagine asking for feedback would yield more civil and constructive responses from the community.

Lormif

There has to be a better way to roll out things like this. Kabam at least needs to consult feedback from people before they go and announce these changes. Why can’t that be done? Why not use something like the summoner’s sanctum to ask people for their thoughts on it and give them an opportunity to explain their feedback. This is more than a “bug fix” because it genuinely negatively impacts so many players. I would imagine asking for feedback would yield more civil and constructive responses from the community.

they do that with changes to champ intended design, but not with bug fixes, and no, it would go just like this.

World Eater

3 years, people didn't care about it because there wasn't content to be bypassed with it.
Your choice of the word “bypassed” is telling.

If you watch KT1 burning revive after revive on 6.2.6 Champion trying to figure out how to beat him, there’s no bypassing. And I’d bet he went at least a few rounds trying to get She-Hulk to work even after he found her as an option.

If you watched my fights with She-Hulk against 6.2.6 Champion, there’s no bypassing—a lot of trial and error after hours of practicing duels against Champion. And more revives used than I’d care to acknowledge.

This wasn’t a cheat code. To suggest anything is “bypassed”is flat wrong.

Dr. Zola
Bypass means get through easier than intended.
What u see in videos is after ppl trying a lot of times to pull off a perfect run. Cannot call it bypassing until you really try it yourself.

I saw a video where Ghost 1 shot 6.2.2 Sinister. I thought wow, smooth and posibly easy. I tried so hard many times but couldn't do it bc of lack of skill along with that I don't have Heimdall for synergy.

Again, you shouldn't talk about the Champion's fight when you haven't really experienced it. The fact that you haven't completed 6.2 but wanted to shut down opinions about SH's performance in there from other players who have at least completed 1 run is just unreasonable and arrogant.
I'm not shutting anything down. People can say what they want. I can also add my own points.
We had the same arguments with other Champs. "It's not that easy.". Had that most recently with Cull. We were still talking about something that wasn't intended. There's no logical reason to keep a bug.
I think what you're saying is fair. I don't think any of us should disagree with the actual fix. It is fair.

The issue with us is how its been handled, and the unwillingness to rectify how summoners were affected by how theyve handled it.
The compensation request is fair, but a lot of the people in here are, and would still be, angry even with it.
While most of us yes would like her to be her usefull self. Most of us would be happy and let this go with RDTs. Thats all i want rm

Agreed. I would like my rank up materials back or a RDT.

Madcat

@Kabam Miike

You have lost the trust of this community, and will not regain it until RDTs are given for this unannounced notice. She Hulk was falsely highlighted by your programs and Content Creators when using what is now being termed a "bug". Any champion is now fair game to be nerfed if it is deemed to be costing Kabam money without notice or recompensation. This is 12.0 all over again. Bring back memories of SW and Dr Strange anyone?

Also - 95% of champions have a difference cadence and heavy attack speed. Hyperion, Omega Red, Venom the Duck, Morningstar, etc all have slower heavy attacks. Some, as have been highlighted here, have much faster heavy attacks. Does anyone even play on the team if you can say that all champions have the same heavy attack and cadence speed with a straight face?

Duke_Silver

Comboing into a heavy was a unique trait that made She-Hulk an interesting champion. Whether it was intended or not, I think Kabam should've perceived it as an opportunity to show what they're capable of delivering to their consumers, in terms of quality gameplay - instead they made a fool out of themselves. For a brief moment, I actually respected Kabam's creativity and capability of thinking out of the box - sadly, today I realized Kabam just create good stuff by mistake. It's not only about how different champions have different abilities, but also play-style that makes this game amazing - take Quake for instance - the only champion, where you don't need to execute any combo, but master holding heavy-attack. So while I respect it was an unintended issue, I think Kabam should've adapted to the idea of pushing play-style diversity, instead of just focusing on what arbitrary ability one champion should possess. You get absolutely no kudos for this "unintended fix", point. blank. period.

Well said, I feel the same way. They’ve spoken before about how they wanted to introduce more unique play styles —and her playstyle really did feel like it was a success in that department.

Fishweasel

I just took 5* she hulk from R3 to R5 after exploring the new variant, doing it specifically so I could explore Act 6.2. I think a Rank Down Ticket is the only fair resolution unless they bring her mechanics back to what they have been for quite a long time.

@Kabam Miike - where does Kabam stand on the RDT for those of us that ranked up she hulk?

Lormif

@Kabam Miike

You have lost the trust of this community, and will not regain it until RDTs are given for this unannounced notice. She Hulk was falsely highlighted by your programs and Content Creators when using what is now being termed a "bug". Any champion is now fair game to be nerfed if it is deemed to be costing Kabam money without notice or recompensation. This is 12.0 all over again. Bring back memories of SW and Dr Strange anyone?

Also - 95% of champions have a difference cadence and heavy attack speed. Hyperion, Omega Red, Venom the Duck, Morningstar, etc all have slower heavy attacks. Some, as have been highlighted here, have much faster heavy attacks. Does anyone even play on the team if you can say that all champions have the same heavy attack and cadence speed with a straight face?

what was highlighted has not changed, and no this is not 12.0 where they changed the entire game for every champion, not even close.

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CFree

Feigned not fained.

GroundedWisdom

Feigned not fained.

Thanks.

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SonSon

Dang...I had just ranked up my She-Hulk this past Monday. Unbelievable...SMDH. I don't understand why I continue to play this game. I should know better by now. There goes all my precious resources down the drain. Why does this continue to happen? Completely not fair.

Nick_Caine_32

I don't understand what groundedwisdom and lormif issue is. They're definitely kabam employees hiding as customers. Normal people can't be on these forums as long as they are. They have no substance, other than to distract us from the issue at hand. They are the definition of a troll.
I'm a systems programmer, I write code and while it is compiling I have decent amount of time to talk on the forums.. Also calling people kabam employees and trolls is a violation of forum rules and will get the thread closed at the worst your post deleted at the best.
I also am a manager at Google and know companies do this.
It doesn't matter. whatever you think of anyone in this thread, it doesn't affect how the team is treating this issue.

we have to keep this on topic folks. keep pressing on the actual issues. we still haven't resolved or heard anything regarding:
1. Content Creators (some official CCP members) highlighted She Hulk as a Rank 5 worthy champion

2. Nothing in the forums had indicated that She Hulk was not working as intended

3. The game team clearly knew that She Hulks current gameplay existed, and didn't warn/indicate summoners otherwise
you need to rectify the situation. we understand why the change is being made. we don't understand how we're being treated through the process.
I agree but i dont blame people for getting emotional here. But to add to your points theres also the fact that quakes description doesnt mention beeing able to charge heavy longer then other champs so is that a bug aswell? And where does this end. People have been terrified to do rank ups today in my circle at least because this raises some serious issues of what if they change them. What are we supposed to think

No one in my group including myself is ranking anyone until everything raised by Miike is addressed. Because initially it was outrage about Shehulk, but after the comments it seems very clear that they are saying anything not listed in the champion description is subject to being labeled a bug - like many others have provided examples here (domino/blade shutting down nodes, quake, daredevil, cyclops/havoc, swaths of other champs like old man logan who do what shehulk is being fixed for, the list goes on). I have no trust or faith that my next rank up decision will hold as intended, because my LAST TWO RANK UPS to rank 4 are now being changed (shehulk and symbiote supreme).

I don't know if he meant to open a bunch of different cans of worms in his clarifying comments but he did. Now we're all questioning the actual built in mechanics of the game and whether they are going to be changed wholesale or if the statement will be walked back. When we're supposed to rely on those here as relays to the game team and we're hearing inaccurate statements that every champ should have the same timing, it's not only confusing but literally halting any progress in the game on rank ups until it's clarified further. This is such a slippery slope

Dxstinity

@Kabam Miike 'We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.

This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.

We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.'

- The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.

jnikolas92

once again, we have yet to address any of the other concerns regarding how this situation is being handled.
1. Content Creators (some official CCP members) highlighted She Hulk as a Rank 5 worthy champion
2. Nothing in the forums had indicated that She Hulk was not working as intended
3. The game team clearly knew that She Hulks current gameplay existed, and didn't warn/indicate summoners otherwise
Seeing how this negatively affects summoners has to be obvious here...I just don't see why compensation to rectify this isn't on the table.

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