She-Hulk Heavy Speed Bug Fix [Title Edited for Clarity]

jnikolas92 · August 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

jnikolas92 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nick_Caine_32 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
Nick_Caine_32 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
Do you really not remember any other instance where the description has been wrong? You are on the forums more than anyone, this should be easy.

Also, things confirmed by the game team to work as intended are also subject to being classified later as bugs, if you remember the archangel situation.

Please stop trying to divert conversation here, you have to see how this opens a whole bunch of threads they may not want to pull. There's literally video evidence from many content creators being shared on this which show a bunch of other champs being able to do this.

The problem is that we're entering territory where we can't trust the descriptions in game, what is told to us on the forums, or even characters who get buffs in a beta who have been in the game for years. That leaves a whole lot of ambiguity and opens kabam up to a lot of controversy and angry players. Why are you trying to argue in favor of that? What do you personally have to gain here?
That were wrong? Not many at all. Some were misunderstood. We don't have many inaccurate Descriptions to count.
Well you're wrong and there's a long history of them updating the descriptions or changing them after the fact, but let's move on here...

people have shared quite extensive lists here of champion abilities that are not listed in the official descriptions in game. Domino and Blade shutting down nodes is a big one and something I'm personally interested in getting clarification on, since I'm about to rank 4 my domino and have the resources to do it. But going off this situation here, if it's not in the official description, are you saying it's inaccurate and subject to changing? No matter how long it's been in the game or the character has had the ability? Is that what Kabam is saying? That's my point. Before we at least had something solid to base our decisions off of, and now I don't feel that is the case. Surely you can at least try to understand how frustrating this is.

Do you think they should go in and change all 7+ characters who could do the same thing she hulk does? Because it's not listed in their game descriptions and (according to you) inaccurate? Because that's a lot of rabbit holes they would need to go down and potentially a huge change in gameplay.
The comment I responded to was that people couldn't trust the Description because of SS. Which had very little to do with the Description, that was just the resolution they came to because increasing him to 100% would be too much. Now we've branched into an exaggeration of the situation where people are making jokes and Posts about how they can't trust who to Rank. If you're going to go the Description route, there was NO indication that Shulk was intended to cheese with Heavies like that, just word-of-mouth on how to use it in 6.2. It's not about the Description. It's about the effect. Rest assured, if there's something that is potentially OP, or provides a shortcut they don't want, it will be resolved. One thing is pretty clear. The Fight isn't meant to be that easy.
that goes the other way though. how are we supposed to know if a fight isn't meant to be easy? the fight still takes skill. i guarantee you nobody is waltzing in their first try with an r1 and sweeping the champion in a one shot. she happens to be a good counter for the fight. isn't that how the game works?
If it wasn't a significant enough shortcut, people wouldn't have rushed to Rank her.

that's just the way counters and the meta works in the game though. she was great in that matchup.
that's just the way the game works. without us knowing it was a bug, why are people being punished for following the natural flow of the meta?

Nick_Caine_32 · August 2019

I mean if this method of combat from Shehulk is now considered cheesing should they nerf Ronan and his ability to stun lock event quest bosses and cheese multiple quests for years now? I mean it's not like the champion fight was a total breeze if someone had she hulk, there was still a lot of skill required to get him down, it was just easier.

If that's the logic here, should Cap Infinity War get a change because he is able to "cheese" as well under this definition?

see the cans of worms being opened here?

Nick_Caine_32 · August 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

jnikolas92 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nick_Caine_32 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
Nick_Caine_32 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
Do you really not remember any other instance where the description has been wrong? You are on the forums more than anyone, this should be easy.

Also, things confirmed by the game team to work as intended are also subject to being classified later as bugs, if you remember the archangel situation.

Please stop trying to divert conversation here, you have to see how this opens a whole bunch of threads they may not want to pull. There's literally video evidence from many content creators being shared on this which show a bunch of other champs being able to do this.

The problem is that we're entering territory where we can't trust the descriptions in game, what is told to us on the forums, or even characters who get buffs in a beta who have been in the game for years. That leaves a whole lot of ambiguity and opens kabam up to a lot of controversy and angry players. Why are you trying to argue in favor of that? What do you personally have to gain here?
That were wrong? Not many at all. Some were misunderstood. We don't have many inaccurate Descriptions to count.
Well you're wrong and there's a long history of them updating the descriptions or changing them after the fact, but let's move on here...

people have shared quite extensive lists here of champion abilities that are not listed in the official descriptions in game. Domino and Blade shutting down nodes is a big one and something I'm personally interested in getting clarification on, since I'm about to rank 4 my domino and have the resources to do it. But going off this situation here, if it's not in the official description, are you saying it's inaccurate and subject to changing? No matter how long it's been in the game or the character has had the ability? Is that what Kabam is saying? That's my point. Before we at least had something solid to base our decisions off of, and now I don't feel that is the case. Surely you can at least try to understand how frustrating this is.

Do you think they should go in and change all 7+ characters who could do the same thing she hulk does? Because it's not listed in their game descriptions and (according to you) inaccurate? Because that's a lot of rabbit holes they would need to go down and potentially a huge change in gameplay.
The comment I responded to was that people couldn't trust the Description because of SS. Which had very little to do with the Description, that was just the resolution they came to because increasing him to 100% would be too much. Now we've branched into an exaggeration of the situation where people are making jokes and Posts about how they can't trust who to Rank. If you're going to go the Description route, there was NO indication that Shulk was intended to cheese with Heavies like that, just word-of-mouth on how to use it in 6.2. It's not about the Description. It's about the effect. Rest assured, if there's something that is potentially OP, or provides a shortcut they don't want, it will be resolved. One thing is pretty clear. The Fight isn't meant to be that easy.
that goes the other way though. how are we supposed to know if a fight isn't meant to be easy? the fight still takes skill. i guarantee you nobody is waltzing in their first try with an r1 and sweeping the champion in a one shot. she happens to be a good counter for the fight. isn't that how the game works?
If it wasn't a significant enough shortcut, people wouldn't have rushed to Rank her.

This is such an unfair statement dude. I didn't RUSH to rank her. I was in the beta, and loved the buff to her abilities. That wasn't yesterday. I had the resources to use on her and intended to do it, then they announced Variant 3 and I waited to see which class gem I got from completion. I got science, and had to decide between her and wasp. I spent a few WEEKS researching the differences, asking friends, watching youtube videos, getting my alliance opinions, and then used it on her.

You are assuming something with no evidence and being really condescending to a bunch of players who, like myself, didn't just rush to rank her because they saw she could help with the champion boss. It's not exactly a breeze GETTING to him in the first place, there's sinister and a bunch of hard stuff in that chapter. So much hard stuff, if you remember, the developer notes APOLOGIZED FOR HOW HARD IT WAS and said they were changing a lot of it for chapter 3. So no, it wasn't just a "oh man people are cheesing the champion, let me rank her up only for that and let's go" for a lot of people. That's unfair and honestly rude for you to say on here.

Nick_Caine_32 · August 2019

jnikolas92 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nick_Caine_32 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
Nick_Caine_32 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
Do you really not remember any other instance where the description has been wrong? You are on the forums more than anyone, this should be easy.

Also, things confirmed by the game team to work as intended are also subject to being classified later as bugs, if you remember the archangel situation.

Please stop trying to divert conversation here, you have to see how this opens a whole bunch of threads they may not want to pull. There's literally video evidence from many content creators being shared on this which show a bunch of other champs being able to do this.

The problem is that we're entering territory where we can't trust the descriptions in game, what is told to us on the forums, or even characters who get buffs in a beta who have been in the game for years. That leaves a whole lot of ambiguity and opens kabam up to a lot of controversy and angry players. Why are you trying to argue in favor of that? What do you personally have to gain here?
That were wrong? Not many at all. Some were misunderstood. We don't have many inaccurate Descriptions to count.
Well you're wrong and there's a long history of them updating the descriptions or changing them after the fact, but let's move on here...

people have shared quite extensive lists here of champion abilities that are not listed in the official descriptions in game. Domino and Blade shutting down nodes is a big one and something I'm personally interested in getting clarification on, since I'm about to rank 4 my domino and have the resources to do it. But going off this situation here, if it's not in the official description, are you saying it's inaccurate and subject to changing? No matter how long it's been in the game or the character has had the ability? Is that what Kabam is saying? That's my point. Before we at least had something solid to base our decisions off of, and now I don't feel that is the case. Surely you can at least try to understand how frustrating this is.

Do you think they should go in and change all 7+ characters who could do the same thing she hulk does? Because it's not listed in their game descriptions and (according to you) inaccurate? Because that's a lot of rabbit holes they would need to go down and potentially a huge change in gameplay.
The comment I responded to was that people couldn't trust the Description because of SS. Which had very little to do with the Description, that was just the resolution they came to because increasing him to 100% would be too much. Now we've branched into an exaggeration of the situation where people are making jokes and Posts about how they can't trust who to Rank. If you're going to go the Description route, there was NO indication that Shulk was intended to cheese with Heavies like that, just word-of-mouth on how to use it in 6.2. It's not about the Description. It's about the effect. Rest assured, if there's something that is potentially OP, or provides a shortcut they don't want, it will be resolved. One thing is pretty clear. The Fight isn't meant to be that easy.
that goes the other way though. how are we supposed to know if a fight isn't meant to be easy? the fight still takes skill. i guarantee you nobody is waltzing in their first try with an r1 and sweeping the champion in a one shot. she happens to be a good counter for the fight. isn't that how the game works?

Yup. I mean it was highlighted in their summoner showdown page as being impressive that someone could do it with a rank 2 she hulk, it wasn't said as "Oh guys look he did it with a rank 2, because it's super easy and he's just cheesing it". It was said because it was impressive, because she was low ranked and he's STILL HARD to take down. How anyone could read that another way is beyond me.

Feeney234 · August 2019

May_The_Way said:

Kabam Miike said:

DrZola said:

Kabam Miike said:
Hey everybody,

We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.

This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.

We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.

Honestly, people should get more than an apology here, Miike.

This was a specific mechanic known throughout the community for a while and a significant attribute of the champ. You guys need to be more attuned to what is happening in game and make “fixes” like this out of the gate, not months later.

I dodged this bullet and used mine at R3 for 6.2 content. But anyone who used their hard-to-get materials on her should get them back and then some.

Dr. Zola
This was not a mechanic of this Champion, and was not mentioned as one. All Champions have the same speed and cadence to their Attacks
OMG, this statement is so false, it honestly makes me cringe. Do you Kabam Devs even play this game? Just because you didn’t mention or advertise a certain mechanic, doesn’t mean it’s not intended, nor do all Champions have the same speed in attacks. For example...

1. Kabam never advertised Stealth Spider-Mans unique 7-hit combo. Is that unintended?

3. Kabam never advertised Champions with unique 6-hit combos. Are these intended?

4. Kabam never advertised Champions that can lock opponents in the corner via the heavy attack, like Dr. Octopus, Gwenpool & Hulk Ragnorak. Is this intended?

5. Kabam never advertised Champions with basic attacks that have longer or shorter range than others. Dr. Voodoo & Masacre for example, have much longer ranged light attacks than most Champions. Is this intended?

So, @Kabam Miike, it is very easy to see that your statement is completely false, & that there are a lot of different attacks & mechanics with different ranges & speeds throughout the game... that you guys never advertised or mentioned. Here are a few more...

1. X-23’s bleeds are capped at 5. Don’t recall this being mentioned or advertised.

2. Voodoo’s poisons are capped at 99. Never advertised or mentioned.

3. Killmonger & Moon Knights bleeds are capped at 1. Never advertised or mentioned.

4. Old Man Logan has the same ability as pre-nerf She-Hulk, & can chain heavys off combos. Never advertised or mentioned.

5. Kamala Khan’s nullify ability is specifically stated to nullify Armor & nothing else, but nullifys all Debuffs anyways. Never advertised or mentioned.

So your statement is false, very easy for even the simplest minds to see that. But what I’m wondering is, how are we, the players, supposed to know if She-Hulks heavy attack was intended or not? Please... I’m honestly wondering. There are so many mechanics in this game that are not mentioned nor advertised, there is no way to know. All we can do is trust that you guys are doing your job & keeping the game free of bugs, so that we can play without worrying about this. But you can’t even do that sadly, & us players keep getting screwed over because of it SMH 🤦‍♂️.

AMEN! Well said! Hopefully Kabam realizes they are completely out of line with this one. They should be ashamed of themselves for pulling this nonsense!!

Kil63 · August 2019

Patchie93 said:
Daredevil not being affected by invisibility makes sense since he doesn't use sight.

Magneto and Juggs being immune to reverse controls is pulled straight from the comics and other forms of entertainment they've been in. Once again makes sense.

Symbiote Supreme they tested and decided he would be to strong if they kept his text the way it was and matched his abilities to that thus they compromised by improving his intended % to 50 percent from its current 30%. I have Sym Sup as a r5/65 and have sunk close to 100 sig stones into him and don't regret it.

Although I feel for those who r5/65 a she hulk for this one strategy they thought was intended it was stated that no champion besides Wasp should be able to do this. And yes it sucks but if no rdts were given for MD changes or AAs changes then I gotta disagree with this warranting a RDT. She can still stack her furies and apply taunt just not at a ridiculous level where she was essentially safe from damage from certain champions sp1s

you were actually given all your resources back for the MD changes. And operating on the mentality of "if it didn't happen in this case, then it shouldn't here" is a bad way to handle things, as every situation is different. They also told people well ahead of time about the MD changes instead of a blindside like this.

Kabam Porthos · August 2019

Okay guys, I understand some of you are upset or confused by the changes we've recently implemented to resolve this issue with She-Hulk. However, I urge you to keep this thread civilised, constructive and on-topic. We all have different views on what we feel is right or wrong, however, just because someone has a different opinion than you does not mean they are wrong.

I've had to remove quite a few comments from this thread because some people have failed to follow the Forum rules.

Let me be perfectly clear, anyone found to be publicly attacking another user will have their comments removed, they will receive any warnings and infraction points we deem necessary to punish their behavior and they will face the possibility of having their Forum account suspended or banned. We excercise a zero tolerance policy when it comes to abuse!

As always, we welcome everyone's feedback, both positive and negative, and we carefully consider every point made. However, if users persist in posting inappropriate, rude, insulting and off-topic comments, this thread will be closed down and any users found to have violated the Forum rules will be punished accordingly.

Thank you all for your cooperation!

LeNoirFaineant · August 2019

CoatHang3r said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

CoatHang3r said:

AndiYTDE said:
Tell me, Kabam: How in the world am I supposed to know if a champion works as intended or not?
You can ask them, if you’re afraid to ask them that’s a good indicator it is unintended.

Nope. Asking them won't do it. People asked about AA and were told specifically that it wasn't a bug...until it was.
Yup. Here’s the explanation for that one. I’ll add hap crappens, (this means noone’s perfect even if you believe they are.)

“Hey Everybody,

I'm sorry to report that a moderator gave you incorrect information when this was first reported. We know how important it is for us to be sure that we are giving you the most accurate information that we possibly can.

This was a bug, and although it was a long standing one, it doesn't mean that we didn't have to fix it. Archangel’s Stun was not acting like every other stun in the game.

The issue with having a Stun that does not act like a debuff is that it was causing a lot of problems, and with more new content and modes being added, this was becoming a bigger and bigger problem. Archangel was not only able to bypass Stun Immune nodes, but his stun would bypass other Champions abilities, like Agent Venom's Tenacity or Black Panther (Civil War)'s Reflect Stun, as well as not interact with Masteries like Willpower.

With this interaction becoming more and more prevalent in different game modes, we started seeing more of these problems come up, and this bug was one that became more of a priority.

We don’t have any plans to distribute Rank Down tickets as this is resolving a bug and not changing an intended fundamental Champion mechanic in a significant way.”

I remember that well. Another example of Kabam failing at basic customer service. If we were given wrong information from the company which resulted in decision making, use of rank up materials and (possibly) money spent, saying "oops, our bad" isn't good enough. They should have taken responsibility for the wrong information and offered compensation. But the point still stands with regard to the idea that simply asking them still provides no assurance. And its not like the bad information was a rogue moderator. The issue was reported in the bug thread, a moderator said it would be looked into, and the thread was labelled "under investigation." Then the moderator came back and announced that it was not a bug, and closed the thread labeling it "not a bug." Presumably the moderator was reporting the findings of the game team, so it was more than just "a moderator gave you incorrect information."

Austin555555 · August 2019

Kabam Porthos said:
Okay guys, I understand some of you are upset or confused by the changes we've recently implemented to resolve this issue with She-Hulk. However, I urge you to keep this thread civilised, constructive and on-topic. We all have different views on what we feel is right or wrong, however, just because someone has a different opinion than you does not mean they are wrong.

I've had to remove quite a few comments from this thread because some people have failed to follow the Forum rules.

Let me be perfectly clear, anyone found to be publicly attacking another user will have their comments removed, they will receive any warnings and infraction points we deem necessary to punish their behavior and they will face the possibility of having their Forum account suspended or banned. We excercise a zero tolerance policy when it comes to abuse!

As always, we welcome everyone's feedback, both positive and negative, and we carefully consider every point made. However, if users persist in posting inappropriate, rude, insulting and off-topic comments, this thread will be closed down and any users found to have violated the Forum rules will be punished accordingly.

Thank you all for your cooperation!

I don’t wanna sound like I’m attacking but with this nerf. You guys should have said 2 1/2 months ago that this was unintentional and fixed it then, not 3 months after. If not more. And @Kabam Miike saying no compensation being given is utter bull **** since this was given without warning.

jnikolas92 · August 2019

just stick to the points here everyone. if you think you have a case against the way the fix being handed (no compensation) stick to the points. its the best way for us to keep the pressure on the game team.

any other comment just takes the focus off what we're trying to get across. I fully believe that we are correct in requesting compensation for she hulk. i want to scream and rant more than anyone here, i r5'd she hulk a week ago. but i know that the best chance at us getting something done is to keep to the points and keep on it until we reach the right resolution.

we need the ability to recoup the resources and move on.

CoatHang3r · August 2019

LeNoirFaineant said:

CoatHang3r said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

CoatHang3r said:

AndiYTDE said:
Tell me, Kabam: How in the world am I supposed to know if a champion works as intended or not?
You can ask them, if you’re afraid to ask them that’s a good indicator it is unintended.

Nope. Asking them won't do it. People asked about AA and were told specifically that it wasn't a bug...until it was.
Yup. Here’s the explanation for that one. I’ll add hap crappens, (this means noone’s perfect even if you believe they are.)

“Hey Everybody,

I'm sorry to report that a moderator gave you incorrect information when this was first reported. We know how important it is for us to be sure that we are giving you the most accurate information that we possibly can.

This was a bug, and although it was a long standing one, it doesn't mean that we didn't have to fix it. Archangel’s Stun was not acting like every other stun in the game.

The issue with having a Stun that does not act like a debuff is that it was causing a lot of problems, and with more new content and modes being added, this was becoming a bigger and bigger problem. Archangel was not only able to bypass Stun Immune nodes, but his stun would bypass other Champions abilities, like Agent Venom's Tenacity or Black Panther (Civil War)'s Reflect Stun, as well as not interact with Masteries like Willpower.

With this interaction becoming more and more prevalent in different game modes, we started seeing more of these problems come up, and this bug was one that became more of a priority.

We don’t have any plans to distribute Rank Down tickets as this is resolving a bug and not changing an intended fundamental Champion mechanic in a significant way.”

And its not like the bad information was a rogue moderator. The issue was reported in the bug thread, a moderator said it would be looked into, and the thread was labelled "under investigation." Then the moderator came back and announced that it was not a bug, and closed the thread labeling it "not a bug." Presumably the moderator was reporting the findings of the game team, so it was more than just "a moderator gave you incorrect information."

I don’t think you remember the originating thread about AA’s stun. Let’s review it. BRB.

Ok back. Nope not what you remember. The moderator just responded without marking it under investigation nor coming back. It was an off the hip response.

Check for yourself.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/252890#Comment_252890

Check yourself.

*wrong link

Fishweasel · August 2019

@Kabam Porthos

Respectfully, there are 2 options you could take that will likely stop (or at least slow down) this continuing saga:.

1) keep she hulk as is. The ability to chain heavies exists in the game, and has for a long time. It is different gameplay style and keeps it interesting. You could embrace it and build on it.

2) move forward with the change AND give out compensation to all of us who ranked her up so we can all move on

Either way please make a decision quickly as there is clearly a lot of anxiety about how this was handled. The longer the silence, the longer this will continue. In the future, you really should consider how these announcements get rolled out. This should be carefully considered based on your rebalancing announcement.

Patchie93 · August 2019

Option 3. They keep the fix and give nothing out like they did for Drax, AA, GP, MD changes/fixes.

Most likely this option is what is gonna happen

CometEarth · August 2019

AndiYTDE said:

CoatHang3r said:

AndiYTDE said:
Tell me, Kabam: How in the world am I supposed to know if a champion works as intended or not?
You can ask them, if you’re afraid to ask them that’s a good indicator it is unintended.

Oh, yeah. I´m definitely gonna do that whenever I rank my next champion.
"Hey Kabam: Does Thing work as intended?"
"Hey Kabam: Does Carnage work as intended?"
"Hey Kabam: Does Punisher work as intended?"
That´s your solution? Seriously?!

Well if you ask them they may say it was working as intented like they did on archangel stun after neurotoxin having fixed time (1.5 sec i think) .And after some time guess what they said it was a bug and fixed it . Some people had ranked him up for that.I dont want to take it as attack i just state what happened back then .

jnikolas92 · August 2019

This is easily resolvable. do right by the summoners who were negatively affected by this. we all move on.

i'm mindblown that it's taking this long to come to this conclusion. what a truly negative play experience its been so far.

LeNoirFaineant · August 2019

CoatHang3r said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

CoatHang3r said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

CoatHang3r said:

AndiYTDE said:
Tell me, Kabam: How in the world am I supposed to know if a champion works as intended or not?
You can ask them, if you’re afraid to ask them that’s a good indicator it is unintended.

Nope. Asking them won't do it. People asked about AA and were told specifically that it wasn't a bug...until it was.
Yup. Here’s the explanation for that one. I’ll add hap crappens, (this means noone’s perfect even if you believe they are.)

“Hey Everybody,

I'm sorry to report that a moderator gave you incorrect information when this was first reported. We know how important it is for us to be sure that we are giving you the most accurate information that we possibly can.

This was a bug, and although it was a long standing one, it doesn't mean that we didn't have to fix it. Archangel’s Stun was not acting like every other stun in the game.

The issue with having a Stun that does not act like a debuff is that it was causing a lot of problems, and with more new content and modes being added, this was becoming a bigger and bigger problem. Archangel was not only able to bypass Stun Immune nodes, but his stun would bypass other Champions abilities, like Agent Venom's Tenacity or Black Panther (Civil War)'s Reflect Stun, as well as not interact with Masteries like Willpower.

With this interaction becoming more and more prevalent in different game modes, we started seeing more of these problems come up, and this bug was one that became more of a priority.

We don’t have any plans to distribute Rank Down tickets as this is resolving a bug and not changing an intended fundamental Champion mechanic in a significant way.”

And its not like the bad information was a rogue moderator. The issue was reported in the bug thread, a moderator said it would be looked into, and the thread was labelled "under investigation." Then the moderator came back and announced that it was not a bug, and closed the thread labeling it "not a bug." Presumably the moderator was reporting the findings of the game team, so it was more than just "a moderator gave you incorrect information."
I don’t think you remember the originating thread about AA’s stun. Let’s review it. BRB.

Ok back. Nope not what you remember. The moderator just responded without marking it under investigation nor coming back. It was an off the hip response.

Check for yourself.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/252890#Comment_252890

Check yourself.

*wrong link

Fair enough. Scratch that part of the narrative. Doesn't change the point though.

Werewrym · August 2019

Vdh2008 said:

Kabam Porthos said:
We all have different views on what we feel is right or wrong...

...this thread will be closed down and any users found to have violated the Forum rules will be punished accordingly.
See, here's where I think we've gotten off track. "Feeling" what's right and wrong? There IS a right way and a wrong way to do things. It's not a feeling, really.

A lot of people would do well to read this... There is an idea going around these days that right and wrong are relative to individuals. That idea is wrong, and that's not a feeling, that's a fact.

It's not wrong to fix a bug. It is wrong to fix something that no one had any idea was a bug without warning and without a valid reason. "Fixing" the so called bug and not offering the ability for players to unrank that champ is just adding insult to injury

Vedisuke · August 2019

Crazywarlord7_7 · August 2019

@Kabam Miike

Lets hope you will take the complaints to she-hulk's heavy chain attack changes into consideration. If the change is still going to go on please give assurances for rank down tickets.

Its sad though to think after so many years playing the game, players are considering leaving the game just because you are intentionally making it harder to clear content. If you consider the following observations that have been reported as bugs or are probmems in the game:

- parries failing resulting in players taking lots of block damage in end-game content
- Uncertainity in the drop rates of crystals
both for opening champs and looking for rank up material.
- inconvenience of having to recover all masteries in one section just to change 1 part of the mastery
- Help button for refreshing champs that keeps on failing and the help itself does not seem to have an impact on the cooldown time
- intercepts now failing, with AI now seemingly has more recovery time, unsual power gain rate and a seemingly underlying above normal critical resistance property which does not correlate with the AI node.
- Some masteries not registering in time. Eg dexterity sometimes failing. Parry times shorter than the indicated time

...it appears that a pattern is developing that is negatively affecting our confidence
In the game

Now to change a mechanic on heavy chain combo which has always been there is driving players to the edge.

You can try to hang on the psychology that the game is addictive to players and they will still keep on playing no matter what but In the end you can only do so much before you finally push players off the edge.

Keep it stimulating and challenging but also fun and interactive. Most importantly keep being transparent and fair. I believe you can still make profit and deliver content that is still statisfying and hang on to player confidence in the game.

I love playing Marvel contest of Champions but to have these changes happen really crushes the fun and at this rate it looks like I am going to have to delete the game in search of something else.

CoatHang3r · August 2019

LeNoirFaineant said:

CoatHang3r said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

CoatHang3r said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

CoatHang3r said:

AndiYTDE said:
Tell me, Kabam: How in the world am I supposed to know if a champion works as intended or not?
You can ask them, if you’re afraid to ask them that’s a good indicator it is unintended.

Nope. Asking them won't do it. People asked about AA and were told specifically that it wasn't a bug...until it was.
Yup. Here’s the explanation for that one. I’ll add hap crappens, (this means noone’s perfect even if you believe they are.)

“Hey Everybody,

I'm sorry to report that a moderator gave you incorrect information when this was first reported. We know how important it is for us to be sure that we are giving you the most accurate information that we possibly can.

This was a bug, and although it was a long standing one, it doesn't mean that we didn't have to fix it. Archangel’s Stun was not acting like every other stun in the game.

The issue with having a Stun that does not act like a debuff is that it was causing a lot of problems, and with more new content and modes being added, this was becoming a bigger and bigger problem. Archangel was not only able to bypass Stun Immune nodes, but his stun would bypass other Champions abilities, like Agent Venom's Tenacity or Black Panther (Civil War)'s Reflect Stun, as well as not interact with Masteries like Willpower.

With this interaction becoming more and more prevalent in different game modes, we started seeing more of these problems come up, and this bug was one that became more of a priority.

We don’t have any plans to distribute Rank Down tickets as this is resolving a bug and not changing an intended fundamental Champion mechanic in a significant way.”

And its not like the bad information was a rogue moderator. The issue was reported in the bug thread, a moderator said it would be looked into, and the thread was labelled "under investigation." Then the moderator came back and announced that it was not a bug, and closed the thread labeling it "not a bug." Presumably the moderator was reporting the findings of the game team, so it was more than just "a moderator gave you incorrect information."
I don’t think you remember the originating thread about AA’s stun. Let’s review it. BRB.

Ok back. Nope not what you remember. The moderator just responded without marking it under investigation nor coming back. It was an off the hip response.

Check for yourself.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/252890#Comment_252890

Check yourself.

*wrong link
Fair enough. Scratch that part of the narrative. Doesn't change the point though.

Was the point that asking offers no assurances? Yeah it doesn’t 100% however it’s the best you’re going to get.

Here’s the question now. And this isn’t a slight it’s being used for comparative purpose. You’ve admittedly been incorrect in your assertions, should people treat you as they do Kabam and trust anything you ever say?

jnikolas92 · August 2019

that's a fairly blanket statement. not sure that applies to everyone though. i just want to focus on this exact situation. go ahead with the bug fix, thats fine. even if it was sudden, it was explained reasonable well. but don't ignore or deny the fact that it negatively an unfairly affected players.

its clear that the situation needs to be rectified. we can take back what was burned and move on. hopefully they'll be better about it next time.

CR7gourav · August 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

jnikolas92 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nick_Caine_32 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
Nick_Caine_32 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
Do you really not remember any other instance where the description has been wrong? You are on the forums more than anyone, this should be easy.

Also, things confirmed by the game team to work as intended are also subject to being classified later as bugs, if you remember the archangel situation.

Please stop trying to divert conversation here, you have to see how this opens a whole bunch of threads they may not want to pull. There's literally video evidence from many content creators being shared on this which show a bunch of other champs being able to do this.

The problem is that we're entering territory where we can't trust the descriptions in game, what is told to us on the forums, or even characters who get buffs in a beta who have been in the game for years. That leaves a whole lot of ambiguity and opens kabam up to a lot of controversy and angry players. Why are you trying to argue in favor of that? What do you personally have to gain here?
That were wrong? Not many at all. Some were misunderstood. We don't have many inaccurate Descriptions to count.
Well you're wrong and there's a long history of them updating the descriptions or changing them after the fact, but let's move on here...

people have shared quite extensive lists here of champion abilities that are not listed in the official descriptions in game. Domino and Blade shutting down nodes is a big one and something I'm personally interested in getting clarification on, since I'm about to rank 4 my domino and have the resources to do it. But going off this situation here, if it's not in the official description, are you saying it's inaccurate and subject to changing? No matter how long it's been in the game or the character has had the ability? Is that what Kabam is saying? That's my point. Before we at least had something solid to base our decisions off of, and now I don't feel that is the case. Surely you can at least try to understand how frustrating this is.

Do you think they should go in and change all 7+ characters who could do the same thing she hulk does? Because it's not listed in their game descriptions and (according to you) inaccurate? Because that's a lot of rabbit holes they would need to go down and potentially a huge change in gameplay.
The comment I responded to was that people couldn't trust the Description because of SS. Which had very little to do with the Description, that was just the resolution they came to because increasing him to 100% would be too much. Now we've branched into an exaggeration of the situation where people are making jokes and Posts about how they can't trust who to Rank. If you're going to go the Description route, there was NO indication that Shulk was intended to cheese with Heavies like that, just word-of-mouth on how to use it in 6.2. It's not about the Description. It's about the effect. Rest assured, if there's something that is potentially OP, or provides a shortcut they don't want, it will be resolved. One thing is pretty clear. The Fight isn't meant to be that easy.
that goes the other way though. how are we supposed to know if a fight isn't meant to be easy? the fight still takes skill. i guarantee you nobody is waltzing in their first try with an r1 and sweeping the champion in a one shot. she happens to be a good counter for the fight. isn't that how the game works?
If it wasn't a significant enough shortcut, people wouldn't have rushed to Rank her.

I r5ed her for champion only, she was at r1 before that since i had her. Even after the buff i didn't rank her up. Found she had a utility and then ranked her up and now the practicality of that utility is lost.

Zuko_ILC · August 2019

Kabam needs to start posting videos with the Champion Spotlights. They need to include all combos, all attacks and specials. They can be separate videos and they have to perform everything in the description of the champ against multiple champs. This way there will be no question that

1. The champion was quality tested
2. How the champion is supposed to perform
3. How their animations are supposed to be

The fact that they release stuff with just descriptions that at this point nearly every new champion has errors in it has added to our confusion on how a champion is supposed to work. So a half hour video showcasing the champion and all abilities and how they work would ensure that there are no more mistakes. We only get semi accurate descriptions that some abilities are left open ended. It's about time they actually provided the content along with the description to make sure it is all working correctly.

16wegnerk · August 2019

I know everything I have to say has likely already been said at some point. But I do want to chime in so Kabam can maybe get a sense of the scope of people they've pissed off with this. I took my 5* She Hulk to R5 less than 12 hours before they announced this Nerf. I upgraded her specifically for her playstyle and her ability to easily place the slow on opponents mid combo. I was LIVID to find out their plans because it doesn't make sense, and quite frankly I would've upgraded someone else (I have Thing, Cap IW, Ghulk, and Spidergwen as candidates). They keep changing character descriptions to match a character's abilities, for once they have the opportunity to do it in a way that benefits the player. But they won't. They'll just keep changing characters and descriptions to make content more difficult despite always talking about how they're releasing new answers to the content. Kabam, If you do see this, and you actually care about your playerbase (or rather care that myself and hopefully others have decided to never spend actual money on this game again unless something is done), then you have only 2 real options.

1)Change she-hulk's description to mention her heavy attack speed making it possible to chain on to a combo with skill, and leave her as is.

Or 2) Give us some She Hulk Specific Rank Down tickets. Or better yet just give us all our resources back and leave our she hulks upgraded since you've said in the past that you want to focus on ranking up more champs instead of ranking them down.

Because I don't believe that this is a nerf you can just sweep under the rug and have go back to normal in a few months. I believe this is something that'll ignite a fire in the community. Because you turned a bad champion into an amazing and highly desired champion. And then you told us you were going to cut her value by 30% again, and make her considerably less fun to play at the same time. I'm pissed and quite frankly, there's good reason for this uproar. Make a change Kabam.

Kalantak · August 2019

Just saw quake's description as well ,it doesnt say anywhere she can hold Heavy or charge heavy for any extended duration. like hela or kamala she should also throw heavy automaticaly after charging for few seconds??? redskull's ability clearly states he can hold heavy for extended duration

She-Hulk Heavy Speed Bug Fix [Title Edited for Clarity]

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