What are you talking about? It's cheaper because it's full price? The cost of Map 6 Donations was laid out in the calcualtions I shared. It's less Gold overall. If you're playing and not donating enough for it, that's more of an in-house issue than anything.
If I play with 30 people running map 6, our donations are enormous. If I chose to play with 20 on map 5, I could reduce my cost. Kabam specifically did that to encourage mixed-map groups. It was a feature they promoted, and it was good for continuity. This crushes it.
I can explain it to you. I can’t understand it for you.
If you play with 20 on Map 5, you reduce your cost enormously because there's NO COST for Map 5. Don't know why that's not hitting home.
Just because there is no cost for map 5 doesn't change the fact that it will cost more for a map 6 player (that's in a 6-5-5 alliance) under the new system than the old system. In the old system the total map cost could be split evenly between everybody. Under the new system you can't do that. It's not hard to understand.
So the 10 people playing Map 6 can't carry themselves, which means the 20 people playing Map 5 were carrying them. Now it's unfair because people playing Map 6 have to buy their own Tickets?
Essentially that's what you're saying. Map 5 is free now. Those 10 people playing Map 6 should be able to manage their own costs through the 3 Resources used to buy Tickets. You pay for what you play is about as fair as it gets.
Essentially that's what you're saying. Map 5 is free now. Those 10 people playing Map 6 should be able to manage their own costs through the 3 Resources used to buy Tickets. You pay for what you play is about as fair as it gets.
How so? how is about as fair as you get? an alliance member doing map 6 in an alliance running 655 has to pay. an alliance member doing map 5 in an alliance running 655 has nothing to pay. both members get the same rewards. the member doing map 6 has harder work to do and has to pay for it on top of that. both get the same rewards. how is that fair? in what world is two members of the same alliance getting the same rewards based off of what each other does but required to pay differently equate to fair?
the only way it is fair is if both members can split the cost which atm they cannot. it will never be fair until the map costs can be split evenly between all members regardless of who does what map.
some alliances run 655 purely to reduce donations. this does not work now as some get a free ride while some pay a tonne. you may say well rotate everyone through map 6... well that won't work in all alliances cus some run 665 cus they have some lower players that dont have the skills / rosters to do map6. some alliances run 655 cus some members dont have the time commitment to do map 6.
some alliances run map 665 cus nobody wants to pay the cost of running 666 so they run 665 to increas the rewards while only marginally increasing the cost, this only works because the cost is split evenly across the 30 members.
two people paying differently and getting the same rewards is not fair in any world by any possible comprehension of the understanding of the meaning of fair. esp considering map 6 is harder and more time sensitive also.
the alliance ticket system will only be fair once all alliance members can split the cost evenly amongst everyone. period. end of story.
an alliance is a team of 30 people. they all work together as a team. they all get rewarded together as a team. each alliance decides what works best for them as a team.
the fact that kabam have listended and said they know its an issue and they will be fixing it shows that even they understand it is not fair that different people in the smae alliance pay differently yet get rewarded the same. thats not what teamwork is all about. if they can see its not fair how come you can't?
Essentially that's what you're saying. Map 5 is free now. Those 10 people playing Map 6 should be able to manage their own costs through the 3 Resources used to buy Tickets. You pay for what you play is about as fair as it gets.
How so? how is about as fair as you get? an alliance member doing map 6 in an alliance running 655 has to pay. an alliance member doing map 5 in an alliance running 655 has nothing to pay. both members get the same rewards. the member doing map 6 has harder work to do and has to pay for it on top of that. both get the same rewards. how is that fair? in what world is two members of the same alliance getting the same rewards based off of what each other does but required to pay differently equate to fair?
the only way it is fair is if both members can split the cost which atm they cannont. it will never be fair until the map costs can be split evenly between all members regardless of who does what map.
some alliances run 655 purely to reduce donations. this does not work now as some get a free ride while some pay a tonne. you may say well rotate everyone through map 6... well that won't work in all alliances cus some run 665 cus they have some lower players that donthave the skills / rosters to do map6. some alliances run 655 cus some members dont have the time commitment to do map 6.
two people paying differently and getting the same rewards is not fair in any world by any possible comprehension of the understanding of the meaning of fair. esp considering map 6 is harder and more time sensitive also.
the allince ticket system will only be fair once all alliance members can split the cost evenly amongst everyone. period. end of story.
The cost is for the Maps themselves. AQ Rewards are a collective, and people all receive the Rewards of all Points Totals, as well as Map Crystals, etc. However, people choosing to run whatever Map they want doesn't mean those choosing to run free Maps are responsible for their costs. In the OP's case, 20 people running Map 5 are required to pay for 10 people running Map 6? We have a different definition of what's fair. It's not an obligation. We choose what we want to run, both individually and as an Alliance.
It's one thing if the Alliance agrees on that, but if I'm in an Alliance for example, and I like running Map 5 and we run a Map 5 BG, and 10 others want to run Map 6, that means I'm either obligated to pay, or I have to find another Alliance. That's equally as unfair.
if the alliance has made a choice to split costs and now they cant do it how is that fair? yes it is your choice to leave an alliance you are not happy in... but bruh seriously, we are talking about alliances that have all agreed it is fair to run 655 or whatever combination and split the cost cus it makes sense. now they cant do that. thats not exactly fair.
you find an alliance that suits your needs. you as an alliance run what suits your members needs. these people and alliances have been doing that and now they can't. thats not fair. now they either have to pay more or take a cut in rewards. not fair at all.
even kabam said they know its an issue for these allies and will be fixing it. its clearly an issue. just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean its not an issue.
i mean seriously, an alliance is not a group of 30 individuals an alliance is a team. everyone needs to work together in that alliance for a common goal. thats how teams work.
Essentially that's what you're saying. Map 5 is free now. Those 10 people playing Map 6 should be able to manage their own costs through the 3 Resources used to buy Tickets. You pay for what you play is about as fair as it gets.
How so? how is about as fair as you get? an alliance member doing map 6 in an alliance running 655 has to pay. an alliance member doing map 5 in an alliance running 655 has nothing to pay. both members get the same rewards. the member doing map 6 has harder work to do and has to pay for it on top of that. both get the same rewards. how is that fair? in what world is two members of the same alliance getting the same rewards based off of what each other does but required to pay differently equate to fair?
the only way it is fair is if both members can split the cost which atm they cannont. it will never be fair until the map costs can be split evenly between all members regardless of who does what map.
some alliances run 655 purely to reduce donations. this does not work now as some get a free ride while some pay a tonne. you may say well rotate everyone through map 6... well that won't work in all alliances cus some run 665 cus they have some lower players that donthave the skills / rosters to do map6. some alliances run 655 cus some members dont have the time commitment to do map 6.
two people paying differently and getting the same rewards is not fair in any world by any possible comprehension of the understanding of the meaning of fair. esp considering map 6 is harder and more time sensitive also.
the allince ticket system will only be fair once all alliance members can split the cost evenly amongst everyone. period. end of story.
The cost is for the Maps themselves. AQ Rewards are a collective, and people all receive the Rewards of all Points Totals, as well as Map Crystals, etc. However, people choosing to run whatever Map they want doesn't mean those choosing to run free Maps are responsible for their costs. In the OP's case, 20 people running Map 5 are required to pay for 10 people running Map 6? We have a different definition of what's fair. It's not an obligation. We choose what we want to run, both individually and as an Alliance.
If it has been decided upon, then yes. It's fair for the remaining 20 people to pay donations. You're getting the rewards for it. AQ score increases, you reach higher milestones, get more glory, get more Map 6 crystals. Yet you want to pay nothing? All that translates to is 'I want the extra rewards yet don't want to contribute towards it.' It is how mixed alliances work.
Did they not announce last week that they were changing the system for mixed map alliances so it’s spread across the alliance?
It's in August, but I think the added outrage is due to the fact that they removed 7k gold per BG as rewards for Map 6. So in a 6/5/5 or 6/6/5 alliance, that's 35-70k gold lost and 105k gold for a Map 6/6/6 alliance.
@GroundedWisdom As an outsider looking in, this come across like a case of you failing to understand the OP’s point for a while, and then continuing to act contrarian instead of acknowledging his concerns.
In mixed-map alliances, regardless of whether you’re running Map 5 or Map 6, you reap the same benefits of the total AQ score at the end of the week.
Such mixed-map alliances traditionally run equal donations per member - Map 5 members essentially subsidising the cost for Map 6 members.
For the sake of the argument, let’s say each member can pull their own weight in their respective maps, and use 0 resources to complete each day.
Then in terms of resources IN (donations) and resources OUT (AQ rewards), this system of subsidised, equal donations, is objectively fair.
In the case of mixed-map alliances, Map 6 players are essentially doing Map 5 players a favour, as they bump up the total AQ score a considerable amount by dealing with a harder, more time-sensitive map.
So in a nutshell - with equal donations, Map 5 players were benefiting from getting higher AQ rank rewards while doing less AQ work, while Map 6 players were benefitting by having their Map costs subsidised in return to contributing more to the entire alliance’s total AQ score.
A pretty fair give and take, no?
The OP’s point is that since cost subsidisation is currently not possible, this balance has been thrown off-kilter for the time being.
It's one thing if the Alliance agrees on that, but if I'm in an Alliance for example, and I like running Map 5 and we run a Map 5 BG, and 10 others want to run Map 6, that means I'm either obligated to pay, or I have to find another Alliance. That's equally as unfair.
The trade off is that you receive map6 rewards for bearing some of the cost. The other players do more work and use more items.
The other thing you’re ignoring is that all 30 of us consented to the previous arrangement BY BEING IN THE ALLIANCE TOGETHER IN THE FIRST PLACE.
if the alliance has made a choice to split costs and now they cant do it how is that fair? yes it is your choice to leave an alliance you are not happy in... but bruh seriously, we are talking about alliances that have all agreed it is fair to run 655 or whatever combination and split the cost cus it makes sense. now they cant do that. thats not exactly fair.
you find an alliance that suits your needs. you as an alliance run what suits your members needs. these people and alliances have been doing that and now they can't. thats not fair. now they either have to pay more or take a cut in rewards. not fair at all.
even kabam said they know its an issue for these allies and will be fixing it. its clearly an issue. just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean its not an issue.
I think it’s good Kabam listened to the feedback (uproar, even) from the announcement. What’s disappointing is that we were told to kick rocks for two months and have our reserves take a huge hit in exchange for nothing. And now we’re on the cusp of the new system starting and we have no update.
@Kabam Miike has talked about map 6 and map 7 costs, but they weren’t often side by side. Map 7 was more than double map 6 - nearly double gold, and more than double chips and loyalty. So the cost of map 6 has now increased relative to map 5 and map 7. It feels like the worst place to be in the game.
Honestly, all of this would probably be fixed by making map 6 cost less than half of map 7. If it was 10 tickets per map (50 per cycle) instead of 75 until a cost-sharing fix was implemented, we’d be on solid footing.
My alliance is completely screwed by this decision and will likely just drop to map 5 until tickets get shared in August. We run 655 and our donations were 130K gold, 9K loyalty, 7K BC per week. If we want to continue with our single map 6, our map 6 guys will have now have to donate 155K gold, 14K loyalty, and 18K BC if we split up across the 3. While also getting 85K less gold from AQ so a net loss of 105K gold per AQ.
I'm not really sure how anyone can defend this. Just revert it back to how it was and roll this new system out in August. There is no point in having a broken system around and forcing people to just deal with it until it is fixed.
Tell me then. If there's no cost for Map 5 and the cost is decreased for an Ally doing 15 BGs of Map 6 in a week, how does that equate to costing more Gold for an Ally running 6x5x5?
These figures are mine alone playing map 6x5, I don’t speak for others...
255,208 - old weekly donation paid every Sunday 105,000 - gold back from cycle = 150,208 gold per cycle
170,185 new gold donation
I always liked to help a little toward the treasury so was happy to do like this every week but as you can see map6 players have been screwed over along with alliances doing mixed maps
It is a hard pill to swallow but I suggest moving to an all map 6 alliance. People are leaving my alliance as well but free loading will no longer be an issue. If you have an issue with paying more you should go to where things suit you better. I wouldn't leave this one in Kabams hands. Just being honest.
So as much as I don’t want to agree with kabam. It actually does cost less. The reason it hurts so many alliances is because most alliances had a stash and gave a discount (plus the 12% for the 8 day rolling schedule) idk what the true map 6 costs but for any alliance with a large stash it was always cheaper.
My alliance it was 150k gold, 12k BC and 7k loyalty.
In our case it’s a huge increase because we had a stash from a loooong time ago to help ease the cost. So no matter how you put it, we are eating a larger cost. If they would have told us sooner, myself and alliance leadership would have told our alliance to stop donating once the announcement came out. At least given alliances a month to deplete their stash. It would have taken us about 6 months in gold maybe 2-3 months in bc and probably just needed to donate loyalty after about 2-3 weeks.
It’s all about transparency, it’s not the first time they keep quiet about something and it won’t be the last. Honestly I just play the game and spend here and there. But I can understand everyone’s frustrations. There are folks he drop thousands a dollars a month on here. I would be pissed too. I’m just slightly annoyed but it is what it is.
These sneaky tactics will cost them their player base. Even a casual spender like me eventually will Be fed up. The free 2 play players are already getting fed up. The spenders are pissed too. One major screw up like 12.0 could really cost them a HUGE portion of the player base
It is a hard pill to swallow but I suggest moving to an all map 6 alliance. People are leaving my alliance as well but free loading will no longer be an issue. If you have an issue with paying more you should go to where things suit you better. I wouldn't leave this one in Kabams hands. Just being honest.
yeah but before you had the option of splitting the difference.being in an ally that does mixed maps to increase your rewards whilst not breaking the bank. now you have the option of stepping back and accepting lesser rewards doing only 555 or stepping up and paying more to do 666. cus less face it why are you gunna pay the same to be getting rewards from 655 as you would be if you were getting the rewards from 666? so the whole middle ground and the whole reason for mixed maps being introduced by kabam is gone at this level.
kabam introduced mixed maps to give alliances the freedom to mix it up to balance difficulty, time and cost amongst a group of people. now the option to balance is severely diminished.
yes it will be adjusted in August but what about in the interim? are map 6 peeps from 655 allies supposed to leave and find 666 allies and leave their mates? are map 6 peeps from 665 allies supposed to accept now they will be paying more. paying the same as a 666 map 6er whilst getting less rewards? are map 6 peeps from 665 allie supposed to tell their allies to step it down to 555 as they dont want the extra expense thereby impacting the whole alliances rewards? are map 6 peeps from 665 allies suppose to leave their mates and find a 555 ally and acept lower rewards cus they dont wanna pay the full map 6 cost?
none of these are good options. all of these go against the whole idea of mixed bg allies. one of which as stated by kabam was to give allies the ability to step one bg up without too much expense. now its gone.
so until this fix is in place there is no good solution.
and just an fyi this does not affect me i am only 555 player. i just really feel for those who are affected.
... well... if they want to do map 655 or 665 or whatever it is then so be it. It can’t be helped that kabam have decided this way. If they don’t want to do map6 anymore because of the unfair cost then reduce yourself to map5 player(s).
... well... if they want to do map 655 or 665 or whatever it is then so be it. It can’t be helped that kabam have decided this way. If they don’t want to do map6 anymore because of the unfair cost then reduce yourself to map5 player(s).
“It can’t be helped”
What a lazy, defeatist perspective. Kabam already announced they were changing cost-sharing I’m a few months. They already changed modok rewards after being faced with outcry. When they don’t treat players fairly, they can remedy the situation or lose customers and goodwill.
This could all be fixed by dropping the cost to 10 tickets per map 6 until cost-sharing is implemented. Edit: even dropping the cost to 50 means a 6-5-5 player pays 114-12-10 during this period, which is worse in every category than the old donations, considering you got 100,000 gold back. But it at least it’s some kind of acknowledgement.
No need to attack with “what a lazy, defeatist perspective” what would you rather want me to say to make kabam change the cost then? They want this to happen.
Truth hurts, I guess. Kabam, for all the criticism they receive, can usually be trusted to respond in some form eventually to public outcries, mistakes and unfairness. Recent compensation, the upcoming August changes to tickets, and changes to modok rewards are all examples just from this month.
Talking about problems here absolutely produces response when the volume gets loud enough. The response might not be perfect, but it’s usually an improvement.
You need to calm down, I understand your issue as my alliance are in the same situation what your thread is about, but there isn’t anything we can do about it. The best we can do is to wait when it goes live then kabam will start to take a closer look how much it impact us all and then do something about it. My guess is that it already is gonna be a huge impact as map5 is free and many will start playing map5 only while map6 is being reduced for those that still want to go on and is willing to work hard for it.
Hey there, as we mentioned in our announcement on the subject, we have been listening to everyone's feedback and are working on a way for Alliances to split the cost of all maps across players in all Battlegroups under the new Ticket system. This change is currently target for August and we are working to find ways to alleviate the cost of running different Maps in one Alliance in the meantime. We don't have a plan in place for this yet but as soon as we have more info to share, we'll let everyone know. As this thread is starting to go off the rails and become somewhat confrontational, this thread will now be closed.
Comments
how is about as fair as you get?
an alliance member doing map 6 in an alliance running 655 has to pay.
an alliance member doing map 5 in an alliance running 655 has nothing to pay.
both members get the same rewards.
the member doing map 6 has harder work to do and has to pay for it on top of that.
both get the same rewards.
how is that fair?
in what world is two members of the same alliance getting the same rewards based off of what each other does but required to pay differently equate to fair?
the only way it is fair is if both members can split the cost which atm they cannot.
it will never be fair until the map costs can be split evenly between all members regardless of who does what map.
some alliances run 655 purely to reduce donations. this does not work now as some get a free ride while some pay a tonne.
you may say well rotate everyone through map 6...
well that won't work in all alliances cus some run 665 cus they have some lower players that dont have the skills / rosters to do map6. some alliances run 655 cus some members dont have the time commitment to do map 6.
some alliances run map 665 cus nobody wants to pay the cost of running 666 so they run 665 to increas the rewards while only marginally increasing the cost, this only works because the cost is split evenly across the 30 members.
two people paying differently and getting the same rewards is not fair in any world by any possible comprehension of the understanding of the meaning of fair.
esp considering map 6 is harder and more time sensitive also.
the alliance ticket system will only be fair once all alliance members can split the cost evenly amongst everyone. period. end of story.
an alliance is a team of 30 people. they all work together as a team. they all get rewarded together as a team.
each alliance decides what works best for them as a team.
the fact that kabam have listended and said they know its an issue and they will be fixing it shows that even they understand it is not fair that different people in the smae alliance pay differently yet get rewarded the same. thats not what teamwork is all about.
if they can see its not fair how come you can't?
Which means Map 5 isn't free at all, really.
how is that fair?
yes it is your choice to leave an alliance you are not happy in...
but bruh seriously,
we are talking about alliances that have all agreed it is fair to run 655 or whatever combination and split the cost cus it makes sense.
now they cant do that.
thats not exactly fair.
you find an alliance that suits your needs.
you as an alliance run what suits your members needs.
these people and alliances have been doing that and now they can't.
thats not fair.
now they either have to pay more or take a cut in rewards. not fair at all.
even kabam said they know its an issue for these allies and will be fixing it. its clearly an issue.
just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean its not an issue.
an alliance is a team. everyone needs to work together in that alliance for a common goal.
thats how teams work.
All that translates to is 'I want the extra rewards yet don't want to contribute towards it.' It is how mixed alliances work. It's in August, but I think the added outrage is due to the fact that they removed 7k gold per BG as rewards for Map 6. So in a 6/5/5 or 6/6/5 alliance, that's 35-70k gold lost and 105k gold for a Map 6/6/6 alliance.
In mixed-map alliances, regardless of whether you’re running Map 5 or Map 6, you reap the same benefits of the total AQ score at the end of the week.
Such mixed-map alliances traditionally run equal donations per member - Map 5 members essentially subsidising the cost for Map 6 members.
For the sake of the argument, let’s say each member can pull their own weight in their respective maps, and use 0 resources to complete each day.
Then in terms of resources IN (donations) and resources OUT (AQ rewards), this system of subsidised, equal donations, is objectively fair.
In the case of mixed-map alliances, Map 6 players are essentially doing Map 5 players a favour, as they bump up the total AQ score a considerable amount by dealing with a harder, more time-sensitive map.
So in a nutshell - with equal donations, Map 5 players were benefiting from getting higher AQ rank rewards while doing less AQ work, while Map 6 players were benefitting by having their Map costs subsidised in return to contributing more to the entire alliance’s total AQ score.
A pretty fair give and take, no?
The OP’s point is that since cost subsidisation is currently not possible, this balance has been thrown off-kilter for the time being.
If there is no constant flow of gold , how is one supposed to rank up champs ? ( excluded arena )
Are we supposed to drop cash for aq tickets ? New lows to stoop to ?
The other thing you’re ignoring is that all 30 of us consented to the previous arrangement BY BEING IN THE ALLIANCE TOGETHER IN THE FIRST PLACE.
@Kabam Miike has talked about map 6 and map 7 costs, but they weren’t often side by side. Map 7 was more than double map 6 - nearly double gold, and more than double chips and loyalty. So the cost of map 6 has now increased relative to map 5 and map 7. It feels like the worst place to be in the game.
Honestly, all of this would probably be fixed by making map 6 cost less than half of map 7. If it was 10 tickets per map (50 per cycle) instead of 75 until a cost-sharing fix was implemented, we’d be on solid footing.
I'm not really sure how anyone can defend this. Just revert it back to how it was and roll this new system out in August. There is no point in having a broken system around and forcing people to just deal with it until it is fixed.
255,208 - old weekly donation paid every Sunday
105,000 - gold back from cycle
= 150,208 gold per cycle
170,185 new gold donation
I always liked to help a little toward the treasury so was happy to do like this every week but as you can see map6 players have been screwed over along with alliances doing mixed maps
My alliance it was 150k gold, 12k BC and 7k loyalty.
In our case it’s a huge increase because we had a stash from a loooong time ago to help ease the cost. So no matter how you put it, we are eating a larger cost. If they would have told us sooner, myself and alliance leadership would have told our alliance to stop donating once the announcement came out. At least given alliances a month to deplete their stash. It would have taken us about 6 months in gold maybe 2-3 months in bc and probably just needed to donate loyalty after about 2-3 weeks.
It’s all about transparency, it’s not the first time they keep quiet about something and it won’t be the last. Honestly I just play the game and spend here and there. But I can understand everyone’s frustrations. There are folks he drop thousands a dollars a month on here. I would be pissed too. I’m just slightly annoyed but it is what it is.
These sneaky tactics will cost them their player base. Even a casual spender like me eventually will
Be fed up. The free 2 play players are already getting fed up. The spenders are pissed too. One major screw up like 12.0 could really cost them a HUGE portion of the player base
now you have the option of stepping back and accepting lesser rewards doing only 555 or stepping up and paying more to do 666.
cus less face it why are you gunna pay the same to be getting rewards from 655 as you would be if you were getting the rewards from 666?
so the whole middle ground and the whole reason for mixed maps being introduced by kabam is gone at this level.
kabam introduced mixed maps to give alliances the freedom to mix it up to balance difficulty, time and cost amongst a group of people. now the option to balance is severely diminished.
yes it will be adjusted in August but what about in the interim?
are map 6 peeps from 655 allies supposed to leave and find 666 allies and leave their mates?
are map 6 peeps from 665 allies supposed to accept now they will be paying more. paying the same as a 666 map 6er whilst getting less rewards?
are map 6 peeps from 665 allie supposed to tell their allies to step it down to 555 as they dont want the extra expense thereby impacting the whole alliances rewards?
are map 6 peeps from 665 allies suppose to leave their mates and find a 555 ally and acept lower rewards cus they dont wanna pay the full map 6 cost?
none of these are good options. all of these go against the whole idea of mixed bg allies. one of which as stated by kabam was to give allies the ability to step one bg up without too much expense. now its gone.
so until this fix is in place there is no good solution.
and just an fyi this does not affect me i am only 555 player. i just really feel for those who are affected.
What a lazy, defeatist perspective. Kabam already announced they were changing cost-sharing I’m a few months. They already changed modok rewards after being faced with outcry. When they don’t treat players fairly, they can remedy the situation or lose customers and goodwill.
This could all be fixed by dropping the cost to 10 tickets per map 6 until cost-sharing is implemented. Edit: even dropping the cost to 50 means a 6-5-5 player pays 114-12-10 during this period, which is worse in every category than the old donations, considering you got 100,000 gold back. But it at least it’s some kind of acknowledgement.
Talking about problems here absolutely produces response when the volume gets loud enough. The response might not be perfect, but it’s usually an improvement.