"Do they even care...?" I would say: we do, absolutely. But I think we've been trying to make our case for that for a long time, and I don't think we'll ever convince everyone.
TLDR - We care. We try to show it by: communicating when we're able, advocating for the community internally and connecting with you all through livestreams and events (and more).
Jax is above and beyond the best. Get this man the raise he deserves.
Deals being a cash grab? I mean, it's a purchase, so, kind of hard to debate that, but the people buying them must enjoy them.
Before I say this... I'm a pretty happy player. I spend on this game fairly frequently and have no intentions to quit the game anytime soon.
Jax: You're not wrong... but sometimes people feel like it's mandatory to spend money, lest they be unable to continue. Sunk cost fallacy kicks in and then they're not spending money because they "enjoy" it but instead do so begrudgingly - that's how we end up on the forums with complaints like the ones you see so frequently.
In general (especially for newer players), spending in this game doesn't feel rewarding - it feels like something you're required to do if you want to enjoy the game at the pace set by the content release schedule. There are exceptions to this, of course... piggy bank deals, double track events, etc., but it doesn't change the fact that many lower-progress players are absolutely inundated with purchase options that, from their perspective, exist solely to get them "un-stuck" in situations that seem engineered to get them stuck in the first place.
I understand that it's a difficult balance. You are, after all, running a business whose purpose is to keep the game alive and, in turn, to keep people employed who allow that to happen... but I would suggest brainstorming ways to make more purchase options that make the player (especially newer & low-progress players) feel rewarded while giving them more FREE options for getting "un-stuck".
I don't know what this would look like, but I hope it's at least something worth thinking about.
"Do they even care...?" I would say: we do, absolutely. But I think we've been trying to make our case for that for a long time, and I don't think we'll ever convince everyone.
Allow me to pull up a chair, turn it backwards all cool, camp counsellor-like and just wax poetic about community management here for a moment.
Let me say, first: I am incredibly grateful to work as a community manager, and even more-so to work within such a passionate community.
In my career I learned quickly that once a community reaches a certain size - and it's way smaller than you might think - it is impossible to please everyone. Does that mean we don't care? No, we absolutely care - we just can't do something to soothe every issue for every individual.
Think about it this way: for every "concern" you have on this list, there are certainly people in this community that feel the opposite. Hate your Battlegrounds matchup? I'm sure the person on the other side loved it. I'm not sure which "horrible event" we're referring to, but I've heard a great deal of praise for numerous new pieces of content, Necropolis among the most notable. Deals being a cash grab? I mean, it's a purchase, so, kind of hard to debate that, but the people buying them must enjoy them. Our job is to find and understand the balance on these specific topics.
A brief aside to say that I'm grateful our game really only allows people to buy time, with enough effort free to play Summoners are still able to keep up (yes I know it's a lot of effort). I also love that this game has something for everyone. I know some people feel the need to complete *all* of the content and feel stressed that they cannot. I enjoy that everyone has a favourite and could stick to playing just their favourite, if they really wanted. That doesn't mean all the other content is "bad" it just likely means it isn't meant for them.
So, back on track, let me ask the difficult question: how do we show Summoners we care? Well, that's a tough one to consider, as everyone has their own standards and we circle back to not being able to please everyone. But! There are constant internal conversations about community sentiment, a consistent feedback loop between the community team and the game team to discuss how everyone is feeling and (everyone's favourite!) data! These conversations happen outside the eye of the community, but there are always people advocating for the community needs. At the end of the day - and this likely isn't the first time you're seeing this - sometimes what the community wants conflicts with what the game needs.
Outwardly, we communicate as effectively as we can. But that doesn't mean we hop into every thread in the forum to provide one-on-one consolation with every issue, especially when they're about larger concepts/gripes with systems such as Battlegrounds matchmaking. That's just not what the forums are for. The forums are one of many factors that contribute to the previously mentioned internal conversations. Yes, we hop into conversations where we're able, and address bugs when they happen. And we always see the call for constant updates, even to just say "we're still working on it" - but that's just an unrealistic expectation to set, because we're doing a lot of things (like telling the gameteam about conversations and trends on behalf of the community!) and there are limited number of hours in a day.
At the end of the day, I love our livestreams and events like Battlerealm Brawl most because they allow us to connect with all of you in a much more engaging, live setting. I know not all of our forums-folks love the livestreams, and not everyone can fly to attend a live event, and that's okay. But it is our way of reaching out and showing the community we care. We care enough to not only communicate, but to connect and share a laugh and bond over a mutual love for this game and this community.
Thank you for reading this borderline nonsensical monologue about how we care about you. It might not always be in the way you want, but we're humans and we're doing our best.
TLDR - We care. We try to show it by: communicating when we're able, advocating for the community internally and connecting with you all through livestreams and events (and more).
The response is appreciated, but we as a player base need more than "we have conversations on the back end". The U.S. Congress has loads of conversations, little to no actual good change coming from any of it, as an example(please do not spawn politics from this, just an example of a point I am making).
There is no prior communication given from Kabam on these. If a mistake is made, and itd acknowledged, and the same mistake is being made over and over, what was the point of anything? If these posts are simply being read and not genuinely considered, and no real change is ever going to happen, then it's a moot point
I don't doubt your enthusiasm and care for the community, but what's being said and what we see is two different things.
OoooUuuu, don't think I've ever been compared to US Congress before. Not sure if I should take it as a compliment... (but almost definitely not)
I think you may have missed the general sentiment intended with my post. It is this: We care about the community, we try to advocate for the masses, and just because you can't see it happening, doesn't mean it isn't.
Furthermore, we understand we can't please everyone, and just because you're upset about something, doesn't mean the team is going to jump to cater to your specific needs - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of one.
"Do they even care...?" I would say: we do, absolutely. But I think we've been trying to make our case for that for a long time, and I don't think we'll ever convince everyone.
Allow me to pull up a chair, turn it backwards all cool, camp counsellor-like and just wax poetic about community management here for a moment.
Let me say, first: I am incredibly grateful to work as a community manager, and even more-so to work within such a passionate community.
In my career I learned quickly that once a community reaches a certain size - and it's way smaller than you might think - it is impossible to please everyone. Does that mean we don't care? No, we absolutely care - we just can't do something to soothe every issue for every individual.
Think about it this way: for every "concern" you have on this list, there are certainly people in this community that feel the opposite. Hate your Battlegrounds matchup? I'm sure the person on the other side loved it. I'm not sure which "horrible event" we're referring to, but I've heard a great deal of praise for numerous new pieces of content, Necropolis among the most notable. Deals being a cash grab? I mean, it's a purchase, so, kind of hard to debate that, but the people buying them must enjoy them. Our job is to find and understand the balance on these specific topics.
A brief aside to say that I'm grateful our game really only allows people to buy time, with enough effort free to play Summoners are still able to keep up (yes I know it's a lot of effort). I also love that this game has something for everyone. I know some people feel the need to complete *all* of the content and feel stressed that they cannot. I enjoy that everyone has a favourite and could stick to playing just their favourite, if they really wanted. That doesn't mean all the other content is "bad" it just likely means it isn't meant for them.
So, back on track, let me ask the difficult question: how do we show Summoners we care? Well, that's a tough one to consider, as everyone has their own standards and we circle back to not being able to please everyone. But! There are constant internal conversations about community sentiment, a consistent feedback loop between the community team and the game team to discuss how everyone is feeling and (everyone's favourite!) data! These conversations happen outside the eye of the community, but there are always people advocating for the community needs. At the end of the day - and this likely isn't the first time you're seeing this - sometimes what the community wants conflicts with what the game needs.
Outwardly, we communicate as effectively as we can. But that doesn't mean we hop into every thread in the forum to provide one-on-one consolation with every issue, especially when they're about larger concepts/gripes with systems such as Battlegrounds matchmaking. That's just not what the forums are for. The forums are one of many factors that contribute to the previously mentioned internal conversations. Yes, we hop into conversations where we're able, and address bugs when they happen. And we always see the call for constant updates, even to just say "we're still working on it" - but that's just an unrealistic expectation to set, because we're doing a lot of things (like telling the gameteam about conversations and trends on behalf of the community!) and there are limited number of hours in a day.
At the end of the day, I love our livestreams and events like Battlerealm Brawl most because they allow us to connect with all of you in a much more engaging, live setting. I know not all of our forums-folks love the livestreams, and not everyone can fly to attend a live event, and that's okay. But it is our way of reaching out and showing the community we care. We care enough to not only communicate, but to connect and share a laugh and bond over a mutual love for this game and this community.
Thank you for reading this borderline nonsensical monologue about how we care about you. It might not always be in the way you want, but we're humans and we're doing our best.
TLDR - We care. We try to show it by: communicating when we're able, advocating for the community internally and connecting with you all through livestreams and events (and more).
The response is appreciated, but we as a player base need more than "we have conversations on the back end". The U.S. Congress has loads of conversations, little to no actual good change coming from any of it, as an example(please do not spawn politics from this, just an example of a point I am making).
There is no prior communication given from Kabam on these. If a mistake is made, and itd acknowledged, and the same mistake is being made over and over, what was the point of anything? If these posts are simply being read and not genuinely considered, and no real change is ever going to happen, then it's a moot point
I don't doubt your enthusiasm and care for the community, but what's being said and what we see is two different things.
OoooUuuu, don't think I've ever been compared to US Congress before. Not sure if I should take it as a compliment... (but almost definitely not)
I think you may have missed the general sentiment intended with my post. It is this: We care about the community, we try to advocate for the masses, and just because you can't see it happening, doesn't mean it isn't.
Furthermore, we understand we can't please everyone, and just because you're upset about something, doesn't mean the team is going to jump to cater to your specific needs - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of one.
What I take from this, then, is that kabam doesn't care about Paragon - under players anymore then. For example, All content is catered for valiants now. Everyone else gets awful rewards, and over difficult content such as Winter of Woe. We can't do BGs in the victory track of all places because I'm going up against valiant decks with 24k PI minimums with 8-10 ascended 6* maxes, and 7* r3/r2s galore. How is that your intent for the NON Gladiators circuit meta? I don't understand how this caters to your masses, unless you are catering to giving valiants easy rewards and making life hell for anyone else who wants to genuinely have fun in the only real competitive mode we have (war doesn't really count imho, especially with the god awful tactics and lack of testing of such before release)
Sentimentality only goes so far, and as much as ide love to accept it at face value, isn't that what we've been doing for years now? Behind the scenes talk/data can be whatever you want it to be, but the reality is valiants got it EASY. Easy VT matches, where they can rampantly destroy lower decks with pay to win new characters, side quests catered to people with giant decks of all ranked characters to be able to squish Winter of woe for examples... I don't dismiss their hard work or wallet to get to that point, but let other players enjoy the game...
"Do they even care...?" I would say: we do, absolutely. But I think we've been trying to make our case for that for a long time, and I don't think we'll ever convince everyone.
Allow me to pull up a chair, turn it backwards all cool, camp counsellor-like and just wax poetic about community management here for a moment.
Let me say, first: I am incredibly grateful to work as a community manager, and even more-so to work within such a passionate community.
In my career I learned quickly that once a community reaches a certain size - and it's way smaller than you might think - it is impossible to please everyone. Does that mean we don't care? No, we absolutely care - we just can't do something to soothe every issue for every individual.
Think about it this way: for every "concern" you have on this list, there are certainly people in this community that feel the opposite. Hate your Battlegrounds matchup? I'm sure the person on the other side loved it. I'm not sure which "horrible event" we're referring to, but I've heard a great deal of praise for numerous new pieces of content, Necropolis among the most notable. Deals being a cash grab? I mean, it's a purchase, so, kind of hard to debate that, but the people buying them must enjoy them. Our job is to find and understand the balance on these specific topics.
A brief aside to say that I'm grateful our game really only allows people to buy time, with enough effort free to play Summoners are still able to keep up (yes I know it's a lot of effort). I also love that this game has something for everyone. I know some people feel the need to complete *all* of the content and feel stressed that they cannot. I enjoy that everyone has a favourite and could stick to playing just their favourite, if they really wanted. That doesn't mean all the other content is "bad" it just likely means it isn't meant for them.
So, back on track, let me ask the difficult question: how do we show Summoners we care? Well, that's a tough one to consider, as everyone has their own standards and we circle back to not being able to please everyone. But! There are constant internal conversations about community sentiment, a consistent feedback loop between the community team and the game team to discuss how everyone is feeling and (everyone's favourite!) data! These conversations happen outside the eye of the community, but there are always people advocating for the community needs. At the end of the day - and this likely isn't the first time you're seeing this - sometimes what the community wants conflicts with what the game needs.
Outwardly, we communicate as effectively as we can. But that doesn't mean we hop into every thread in the forum to provide one-on-one consolation with every issue, especially when they're about larger concepts/gripes with systems such as Battlegrounds matchmaking. That's just not what the forums are for. The forums are one of many factors that contribute to the previously mentioned internal conversations. Yes, we hop into conversations where we're able, and address bugs when they happen. And we always see the call for constant updates, even to just say "we're still working on it" - but that's just an unrealistic expectation to set, because we're doing a lot of things (like telling the gameteam about conversations and trends on behalf of the community!) and there are limited number of hours in a day.
At the end of the day, I love our livestreams and events like Battlerealm Brawl most because they allow us to connect with all of you in a much more engaging, live setting. I know not all of our forums-folks love the livestreams, and not everyone can fly to attend a live event, and that's okay. But it is our way of reaching out and showing the community we care. We care enough to not only communicate, but to connect and share a laugh and bond over a mutual love for this game and this community.
Thank you for reading this borderline nonsensical monologue about how we care about you. It might not always be in the way you want, but we're humans and we're doing our best.
TLDR - We care. We try to show it by: communicating when we're able, advocating for the community internally and connecting with you all through livestreams and events (and more).
The response is appreciated, but we as a player base need more than "we have conversations on the back end". The U.S. Congress has loads of conversations, little to no actual good change coming from any of it, as an example(please do not spawn politics from this, just an example of a point I am making).
There is no prior communication given from Kabam on these. If a mistake is made, and itd acknowledged, and the same mistake is being made over and over, what was the point of anything? If these posts are simply being read and not genuinely considered, and no real change is ever going to happen, then it's a moot point
I don't doubt your enthusiasm and care for the community, but what's being said and what we see is two different things.
OoooUuuu, don't think I've ever been compared to US Congress before. Not sure if I should take it as a compliment... (but almost definitely not)
I think you may have missed the general sentiment intended with my post. It is this: We care about the community, we try to advocate for the masses, and just because you can't see it happening, doesn't mean it isn't.
Furthermore, we understand we can't please everyone, and just because you're upset about something, doesn't mean the team is going to jump to cater to your specific needs - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of one.
What I take from this, then, is that kabam doesn't care about Paragon - under players anymore then. For example, All content is catered for valiants now.
The women challenges proved that this statement is false.
"Do they even care...?" I would say: we do, absolutely. But I think we've been trying to make our case for that for a long time, and I don't think we'll ever convince everyone.
Allow me to pull up a chair, turn it backwards all cool, camp counsellor-like and just wax poetic about community management here for a moment.
Let me say, first: I am incredibly grateful to work as a community manager, and even more-so to work within such a passionate community.
In my career I learned quickly that once a community reaches a certain size - and it's way smaller than you might think - it is impossible to please everyone. Does that mean we don't care? No, we absolutely care - we just can't do something to soothe every issue for every individual.
Think about it this way: for every "concern" you have on this list, there are certainly people in this community that feel the opposite. Hate your Battlegrounds matchup? I'm sure the person on the other side loved it. I'm not sure which "horrible event" we're referring to, but I've heard a great deal of praise for numerous new pieces of content, Necropolis among the most notable. Deals being a cash grab? I mean, it's a purchase, so, kind of hard to debate that, but the people buying them must enjoy them. Our job is to find and understand the balance on these specific topics.
A brief aside to say that I'm grateful our game really only allows people to buy time, with enough effort free to play Summoners are still able to keep up (yes I know it's a lot of effort). I also love that this game has something for everyone. I know some people feel the need to complete *all* of the content and feel stressed that they cannot. I enjoy that everyone has a favourite and could stick to playing just their favourite, if they really wanted. That doesn't mean all the other content is "bad" it just likely means it isn't meant for them.
So, back on track, let me ask the difficult question: how do we show Summoners we care? Well, that's a tough one to consider, as everyone has their own standards and we circle back to not being able to please everyone. But! There are constant internal conversations about community sentiment, a consistent feedback loop between the community team and the game team to discuss how everyone is feeling and (everyone's favourite!) data! These conversations happen outside the eye of the community, but there are always people advocating for the community needs. At the end of the day - and this likely isn't the first time you're seeing this - sometimes what the community wants conflicts with what the game needs.
Outwardly, we communicate as effectively as we can. But that doesn't mean we hop into every thread in the forum to provide one-on-one consolation with every issue, especially when they're about larger concepts/gripes with systems such as Battlegrounds matchmaking. That's just not what the forums are for. The forums are one of many factors that contribute to the previously mentioned internal conversations. Yes, we hop into conversations where we're able, and address bugs when they happen. And we always see the call for constant updates, even to just say "we're still working on it" - but that's just an unrealistic expectation to set, because we're doing a lot of things (like telling the gameteam about conversations and trends on behalf of the community!) and there are limited number of hours in a day.
At the end of the day, I love our livestreams and events like Battlerealm Brawl most because they allow us to connect with all of you in a much more engaging, live setting. I know not all of our forums-folks love the livestreams, and not everyone can fly to attend a live event, and that's okay. But it is our way of reaching out and showing the community we care. We care enough to not only communicate, but to connect and share a laugh and bond over a mutual love for this game and this community.
Thank you for reading this borderline nonsensical monologue about how we care about you. It might not always be in the way you want, but we're humans and we're doing our best.
TLDR - We care. We try to show it by: communicating when we're able, advocating for the community internally and connecting with you all through livestreams and events (and more).
The response is appreciated, but we as a player base need more than "we have conversations on the back end". The U.S. Congress has loads of conversations, little to no actual good change coming from any of it, as an example(please do not spawn politics from this, just an example of a point I am making).
There is no prior communication given from Kabam on these. If a mistake is made, and itd acknowledged, and the same mistake is being made over and over, what was the point of anything? If these posts are simply being read and not genuinely considered, and no real change is ever going to happen, then it's a moot point
I don't doubt your enthusiasm and care for the community, but what's being said and what we see is two different things.
OoooUuuu, don't think I've ever been compared to US Congress before. Not sure if I should take it as a compliment... (but almost definitely not)
I think you may have missed the general sentiment intended with my post. It is this: We care about the community, we try to advocate for the masses, and just because you can't see it happening, doesn't mean it isn't.
Furthermore, we understand we can't please everyone, and just because you're upset about something, doesn't mean the team is going to jump to cater to your specific needs - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of one.
What I take from this, then, is that kabam doesn't care about Paragon - under players anymore then. For example, All content is catered for valiants now. Everyone else gets awful rewards, and over difficult content such as Winter of Woe. We can't do BGs in the victory track of all places because I'm going up against valiant decks with 24k PI minimums with 8-10 ascended 6* maxes, and 7* r3/r2s galore. How is that your intent for the NON Gladiators circuit meta? I don't understand how this caters to your masses, unless you are catering to giving valiants easy rewards and making life hell for anyone else who wants to genuinely have fun in the only real competitive mode we have (war doesn't really count imho, especially with the god awful tactics and lack of testing of such before release)
Sentimentality only goes so far, and as much as ide love to accept it at face value, isn't that what we've been doing for years now? Behind the scenes talk/data can be whatever you want it to be, but the reality is valiants got it EASY. Easy VT matches, where they can rampantly destroy lower decks with pay to win new characters, side quests catered to people with giant decks of all ranked characters to be able to squish Winter of woe for examples... I don't dismiss their hard work or wallet to get to that point, but let other players enjoy the game...
This is all completely false. I'm a paragon. I have a grand total of 10 7* not a single one is above r1. I only have 1 r5 6*. Yet I've been able to do everything in game just fine and at my own pace as I see fit. I have also only ever spent money during platimun double tracks and I've been playing the game since the beginning. Find another hill to die on. The game is absolutely easy for anyone willing to learn and try and no just spending money.
GC should be where you duke it out, VT should be about fairness. Locking rewards behind 3 consecutive VT's when you're a high performing paragon account vs valiant with nothing under 23K and 4 7* R3's and every single new champ with perfect counters to yours is actual BS. Combined with the fact that valiants just straight up can buy 6* r5 and ascend every new champ right into their BG roster and fight paragons to EASILY get through VT and grab these same "rewards" for little to no effort is not right. The bg Victor is being decided literally the moment it paired a huge valiant whale roster vs paragons. There's literally nothing any of you can say that changes this FACT.
It offers literally no logical benefit to the game. You have 0 chance of advancing with 5 matches in a row required while fighting accounts like that.
Beyond that, every single EVENT quest(I should have clarified) has been absolute garbage, along with absolute horribly designed defenders that have come out with terrible tactics in war.
Wait a min, a few posts ago you said something about Magus spending 120k Euros and not spending much on this last one, and now you think its impossible to advance with "monster accounts" like that....so which one is it?. You dont want monster accounts around or you wanna give whales more reasons to spend?
I never said this at all.
Yeah sorry it was someone else with same profile pic.
"Do they even care...?" I would say: we do, absolutely. But I think we've been trying to make our case for that for a long time, and I don't think we'll ever convince everyone.
Allow me to pull up a chair, turn it backwards all cool, camp counsellor-like and just wax poetic about community management here for a moment.
Let me say, first: I am incredibly grateful to work as a community manager, and even more-so to work within such a passionate community.
In my career I learned quickly that once a community reaches a certain size - and it's way smaller than you might think - it is impossible to please everyone. Does that mean we don't care? No, we absolutely care - we just can't do something to soothe every issue for every individual.
Think about it this way: for every "concern" you have on this list, there are certainly people in this community that feel the opposite. Hate your Battlegrounds matchup? I'm sure the person on the other side loved it. I'm not sure which "horrible event" we're referring to, but I've heard a great deal of praise for numerous new pieces of content, Necropolis among the most notable. Deals being a cash grab? I mean, it's a purchase, so, kind of hard to debate that, but the people buying them must enjoy them. Our job is to find and understand the balance on these specific topics.
A brief aside to say that I'm grateful our game really only allows people to buy time, with enough effort free to play Summoners are still able to keep up (yes I know it's a lot of effort). I also love that this game has something for everyone. I know some people feel the need to complete *all* of the content and feel stressed that they cannot. I enjoy that everyone has a favourite and could stick to playing just their favourite, if they really wanted. That doesn't mean all the other content is "bad" it just likely means it isn't meant for them.
So, back on track, let me ask the difficult question: how do we show Summoners we care? Well, that's a tough one to consider, as everyone has their own standards and we circle back to not being able to please everyone. But! There are constant internal conversations about community sentiment, a consistent feedback loop between the community team and the game team to discuss how everyone is feeling and (everyone's favourite!) data! These conversations happen outside the eye of the community, but there are always people advocating for the community needs. At the end of the day - and this likely isn't the first time you're seeing this - sometimes what the community wants conflicts with what the game needs.
Outwardly, we communicate as effectively as we can. But that doesn't mean we hop into every thread in the forum to provide one-on-one consolation with every issue, especially when they're about larger concepts/gripes with systems such as Battlegrounds matchmaking. That's just not what the forums are for. The forums are one of many factors that contribute to the previously mentioned internal conversations. Yes, we hop into conversations where we're able, and address bugs when they happen. And we always see the call for constant updates, even to just say "we're still working on it" - but that's just an unrealistic expectation to set, because we're doing a lot of things (like telling the gameteam about conversations and trends on behalf of the community!) and there are limited number of hours in a day.
At the end of the day, I love our livestreams and events like Battlerealm Brawl most because they allow us to connect with all of you in a much more engaging, live setting. I know not all of our forums-folks love the livestreams, and not everyone can fly to attend a live event, and that's okay. But it is our way of reaching out and showing the community we care. We care enough to not only communicate, but to connect and share a laugh and bond over a mutual love for this game and this community.
Thank you for reading this borderline nonsensical monologue about how we care about you. It might not always be in the way you want, but we're humans and we're doing our best.
TLDR - We care. We try to show it by: communicating when we're able, advocating for the community internally and connecting with you all through livestreams and events (and more).
The response is appreciated, but we as a player base need more than "we have conversations on the back end". The U.S. Congress has loads of conversations, little to no actual good change coming from any of it, as an example(please do not spawn politics from this, just an example of a point I am making).
There is no prior communication given from Kabam on these. If a mistake is made, and itd acknowledged, and the same mistake is being made over and over, what was the point of anything? If these posts are simply being read and not genuinely considered, and no real change is ever going to happen, then it's a moot point
I don't doubt your enthusiasm and care for the community, but what's being said and what we see is two different things.
OoooUuuu, don't think I've ever been compared to US Congress before. Not sure if I should take it as a compliment... (but almost definitely not)
I think you may have missed the general sentiment intended with my post. It is this: We care about the community, we try to advocate for the masses, and just because you can't see it happening, doesn't mean it isn't.
Furthermore, we understand we can't please everyone, and just because you're upset about something, doesn't mean the team is going to jump to cater to your specific needs - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of one.
What I take from this, then, is that kabam doesn't care about Paragon - under players anymore then. For example, All content is catered for valiants now.
The women challenges proved that this statement is false.
The existence of story, EQ, SQ, Incursions, AQ, AW, and basically everything else also disproves what OP is saying. People love to forget that stuff exists outside of the newest, shiniest content. A whole game was built before Valiant, before Paragon, before any progression titles existed. That content hasn’t gone anywhere. But the more OP talks, the more it becomes clear that this is actually just a BGs rage post.
"Do they even care...?" I would say: we do, absolutely. But I think we've been trying to make our case for that for a long time, and I don't think we'll ever convince everyone.
TLDR - We care. We try to show it by: communicating when we're able, advocating for the community internally and connecting with you all through livestreams and events (and more).
Jax is above and beyond the best. Get this man the raise he deserves.
Think they need to go one better and add spider punk
In their defense.. I only care about money in my business too... If you don't spend you are not really a client...
Very true, but when you're selling a product and then can't be bothered to keep your clients happy or do something to entise new clients then your product is trash and your business ain't going to keep going...
Reality is, Kabam are focusing all their resources on Whales; everyone else is left behind even those who still spend money just not £1000's every month are getting dropped.
For God sake gifting event 2022 saw Magnus spend excess of £120k and 2023 hasn't come close to that just shows the games dying unfortunately
"Do they even care...?" I would say: we do, absolutely. But I think we've been trying to make our case for that for a long time, and I don't think we'll ever convince everyone.
Allow me to pull up a chair, turn it backwards all cool, camp counsellor-like and just wax poetic about community management here for a moment.
Let me say, first: I am incredibly grateful to work as a community manager, and even more-so to work within such a passionate community.
In my career I learned quickly that once a community reaches a certain size - and it's way smaller than you might think - it is impossible to please everyone. Does that mean we don't care? No, we absolutely care - we just can't do something to soothe every issue for every individual.
Think about it this way: for every "concern" you have on this list, there are certainly people in this community that feel the opposite. Hate your Battlegrounds matchup? I'm sure the person on the other side loved it. I'm not sure which "horrible event" we're referring to, but I've heard a great deal of praise for numerous new pieces of content, Necropolis among the most notable. Deals being a cash grab? I mean, it's a purchase, so, kind of hard to debate that, but the people buying them must enjoy them. Our job is to find and understand the balance on these specific topics.
A brief aside to say that I'm grateful our game really only allows people to buy time, with enough effort free to play Summoners are still able to keep up (yes I know it's a lot of effort). I also love that this game has something for everyone. I know some people feel the need to complete *all* of the content and feel stressed that they cannot. I enjoy that everyone has a favourite and could stick to playing just their favourite, if they really wanted. That doesn't mean all the other content is "bad" it just likely means it isn't meant for them.
So, back on track, let me ask the difficult question: how do we show Summoners we care? Well, that's a tough one to consider, as everyone has their own standards and we circle back to not being able to please everyone. But! There are constant internal conversations about community sentiment, a consistent feedback loop between the community team and the game team to discuss how everyone is feeling and (everyone's favourite!) data! These conversations happen outside the eye of the community, but there are always people advocating for the community needs. At the end of the day - and this likely isn't the first time you're seeing this - sometimes what the community wants conflicts with what the game needs.
Outwardly, we communicate as effectively as we can. But that doesn't mean we hop into every thread in the forum to provide one-on-one consolation with every issue, especially when they're about larger concepts/gripes with systems such as Battlegrounds matchmaking. That's just not what the forums are for. The forums are one of many factors that contribute to the previously mentioned internal conversations. Yes, we hop into conversations where we're able, and address bugs when they happen. And we always see the call for constant updates, even to just say "we're still working on it" - but that's just an unrealistic expectation to set, because we're doing a lot of things (like telling the gameteam about conversations and trends on behalf of the community!) and there are limited number of hours in a day.
At the end of the day, I love our livestreams and events like Battlerealm Brawl most because they allow us to connect with all of you in a much more engaging, live setting. I know not all of our forums-folks love the livestreams, and not everyone can fly to attend a live event, and that's okay. But it is our way of reaching out and showing the community we care. We care enough to not only communicate, but to connect and share a laugh and bond over a mutual love for this game and this community.
Thank you for reading this borderline nonsensical monologue about how we care about you. It might not always be in the way you want, but we're humans and we're doing our best.
TLDR - We care. We try to show it by: communicating when we're able, advocating for the community internally and connecting with you all through livestreams and events (and more).
The response is appreciated, but we as a player base need more than "we have conversations on the back end". The U.S. Congress has loads of conversations, little to no actual good change coming from any of it, as an example(please do not spawn politics from this, just an example of a point I am making).
There is no prior communication given from Kabam on these. If a mistake is made, and itd acknowledged, and the same mistake is being made over and over, what was the point of anything? If these posts are simply being read and not genuinely considered, and no real change is ever going to happen, then it's a moot point
I don't doubt your enthusiasm and care for the community, but what's being said and what we see is two different things.
What do you mean there isn't any prior communication on "these"?
Your hang up on valiants vs paragon is kinda dumb.
Do we get better daily crystals and some selectors? Yes, but necro took a lot of grinded resources.
But roster is very different. The only need for valiant is 2 R3 7s... that is not likely going to vastly set you apart from veteran paragon accounts in BGs.
Winter of Woe is also not greatly affected because we can only use 1 champ each time... unlikely to be our R3 champ (except hulk against abs).
Instead of complaining in circles on forums, go get yourself in the arena for some units and become valiant yourself.
I don't doubt your enthusiasm and care for the community, but what's being said and what we see is two different things.
Sorry but you keep saying "we" as if you're speaking for everyone - and if this thread is used as a sample size, it actually tells us you're in the minority. Certainly aren't speaking for me and I'm not Valiant yet but feel I can do all content if wanting to. BGs are fine too. Perhaps change up your roster/strategy/focusing on yourself as the possible root cause to your frustration?
"Do they even care...?" I would say: we do, absolutely. But I think we've been trying to make our case for that for a long time, and I don't think we'll ever convince everyone.
Allow me to pull up a chair, turn it backwards all cool, camp counsellor-like and just wax poetic about community management here for a moment.
Let me say, first: I am incredibly grateful to work as a community manager, and even more-so to work within such a passionate community.
In my career I learned quickly that once a community reaches a certain size - and it's way smaller than you might think - it is impossible to please everyone. Does that mean we don't care? No, we absolutely care - we just can't do something to soothe every issue for every individual.
Think about it this way: for every "concern" you have on this list, there are certainly people in this community that feel the opposite. Hate your Battlegrounds matchup? I'm sure the person on the other side loved it. I'm not sure which "horrible event" we're referring to, but I've heard a great deal of praise for numerous new pieces of content, Necropolis among the most notable. Deals being a cash grab? I mean, it's a purchase, so, kind of hard to debate that, but the people buying them must enjoy them. Our job is to find and understand the balance on these specific topics.
A brief aside to say that I'm grateful our game really only allows people to buy time, with enough effort free to play Summoners are still able to keep up (yes I know it's a lot of effort). I also love that this game has something for everyone. I know some people feel the need to complete *all* of the content and feel stressed that they cannot. I enjoy that everyone has a favourite and could stick to playing just their favourite, if they really wanted. That doesn't mean all the other content is "bad" it just likely means it isn't meant for them.
So, back on track, let me ask the difficult question: how do we show Summoners we care? Well, that's a tough one to consider, as everyone has their own standards and we circle back to not being able to please everyone. But! There are constant internal conversations about community sentiment, a consistent feedback loop between the community team and the game team to discuss how everyone is feeling and (everyone's favourite!) data! These conversations happen outside the eye of the community, but there are always people advocating for the community needs. At the end of the day - and this likely isn't the first time you're seeing this - sometimes what the community wants conflicts with what the game needs.
Outwardly, we communicate as effectively as we can. But that doesn't mean we hop into every thread in the forum to provide one-on-one consolation with every issue, especially when they're about larger concepts/gripes with systems such as Battlegrounds matchmaking. That's just not what the forums are for. The forums are one of many factors that contribute to the previously mentioned internal conversations. Yes, we hop into conversations where we're able, and address bugs when they happen. And we always see the call for constant updates, even to just say "we're still working on it" - but that's just an unrealistic expectation to set, because we're doing a lot of things (like telling the gameteam about conversations and trends on behalf of the community!) and there are limited number of hours in a day.
At the end of the day, I love our livestreams and events like Battlerealm Brawl most because they allow us to connect with all of you in a much more engaging, live setting. I know not all of our forums-folks love the livestreams, and not everyone can fly to attend a live event, and that's okay. But it is our way of reaching out and showing the community we care. We care enough to not only communicate, but to connect and share a laugh and bond over a mutual love for this game and this community.
Thank you for reading this borderline nonsensical monologue about how we care about you. It might not always be in the way you want, but we're humans and we're doing our best.
TLDR - We care. We try to show it by: communicating when we're able, advocating for the community internally and connecting with you all through livestreams and events (and more).
The response is appreciated, but we as a player base need more than "we have conversations on the back end". The U.S. Congress has loads of conversations, little to no actual good change coming from any of it, as an example(please do not spawn politics from this, just an example of a point I am making).
There is no prior communication given from Kabam on these. If a mistake is made, and itd acknowledged, and the same mistake is being made over and over, what was the point of anything? If these posts are simply being read and not genuinely considered, and no real change is ever going to happen, then it's a moot point
I don't doubt your enthusiasm and care for the community, but what's being said and what we see is two different things.
OoooUuuu, don't think I've ever been compared to US Congress before. Not sure if I should take it as a compliment... (but almost definitely not)
I think you may have missed the general sentiment intended with my post. It is this: We care about the community, we try to advocate for the masses, and just because you can't see it happening, doesn't mean it isn't.
Furthermore, we understand we can't please everyone, and just because you're upset about something, doesn't mean the team is going to jump to cater to your specific needs - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of one.
What I take from this, then, is that kabam doesn't care about Paragon - under players anymore then. For example, All content is catered for valiants now. Everyone else gets awful rewards, and over difficult content such as Winter of Woe. We can't do BGs in the victory track of all places because I'm going up against valiant decks with 24k PI minimums with 8-10 ascended 6* maxes, and 7* r3/r2s galore. How is that your intent for the NON Gladiators circuit meta? I don't understand how this caters to your masses, unless you are catering to giving valiants easy rewards and making life hell for anyone else who wants to genuinely have fun in the only real competitive mode we have (war doesn't really count imho, especially with the god awful tactics and lack of testing of such before release)
Sentimentality only goes so far, and as much as ide love to accept it at face value, isn't that what we've been doing for years now? Behind the scenes talk/data can be whatever you want it to be, but the reality is valiants got it EASY. Easy VT matches, where they can rampantly destroy lower decks with pay to win new characters, side quests catered to people with giant decks of all ranked characters to be able to squish Winter of woe for examples... I don't dismiss their hard work or wallet to get to that point, but let other players enjoy the game...
Guess what? If you don't suck and did at least one Necropolis path you too will be Valiant in a month or so once 8.4 drops! If you're not, well, keep building your deck like all of us did at one point 😉
"Do they even care...?" I would say: we do, absolutely. But I think we've been trying to make our case for that for a long time, and I don't think we'll ever convince everyone.
TLDR - We care. We try to show it by: communicating when we're able, advocating for the community internally and connecting with you all through livestreams and events (and more).
Great thanks, while you're here can you provide an update on the discussed compensation for last month's Incursions black screen issue?
Honestly Jax, the response is appreciated so much more than you would realise, even just an acknowledgement is more than most expected.
But unfortunately, this just sounds like you and the other community managers see our complaints, push for change but those with the power to introduce this change don't care.
You've seen our complaints of back to back war season node being unplayable, BG rewards not being updated for nearly a year and a half and still needing another month or two, stores not being updated and when they do the update is almost pointless ie incursions leaving 6* crystals at same price but just add a 7* crystal, loyalty just adding a new potion level and increase amount to spend but not reducing price of potions or anything else, BG store adding valiant offers but leaving Paragon untouched.
Just a few things that can and need to be changed and I honestly have NO DOUBT you and the others are pushing this because it will only make your lives easier but it seems to be falling on death ears. You, Miike and the others are the front and take the blunt of the community frustration and that is unfair especially if you cannot push change, which is exactly how this sounds.
A brief aside to say that I'm grateful our game really only allows people to buy time, with enough effort free to play Summoners are still able to keep up (yes I know it's a lot of effort).
But I thought time wasn’t a relevant resource in the games current economy?
I don't doubt your enthusiasm and care for the community, but what's being said and what we see is two different things.
Sorry but you keep saying "we" as if you're speaking for everyone - and if this thread is used as a sample size, it actually tells us you're in the minority. Certainly aren't speaking for me and I'm not Valiant yet but feel I can do all content if wanting to. BGs are fine too. Perhaps change up your roster/strategy/focusing on yourself as the possible root cause to your frustration?
Read the room dude.
I'm going to run with this "we" thing a bit, because I actually think it is the most important thing in the entire thread.
All of us have some thing they don't like about the game. All of us have observed problems, issues, or other things they'd like to see changed or improved. It can be easy to look around, see all the problems and complaints, and think there is some massive "we" that all agree on everything wrong with the game. It can be easy to assume that I represent everyone else and all of their complaints. But in fact, that's completely false. The people complaining about AW tactics are not all the same people complaining about Battleground match making. In fact, the people complaining about AW tactics today are not even all the same people that were complaining about it earlier.
As @Kabam Jax mentioned, you can't please everyone. But that can seem like an excuse. So let's look at the specific complaints the OP made, and I quote: "Literally all I see is unfair match ups in bgs, horrible events, cash grab offers that put whales years beyond everyone else, and incredibly mediocre rewards for actual content." I'm going to focus on two, the two that can be examined objectively.
First of all, the existence of the Victory Track in Battlegrounds is itself proof that Kabam thinks about their playerbase, and tries to make things reasonable for as wide of a cross section of players as possible. The Victory Track is not part of the original conception of Battlegrounds. I was there when Kabam was testing the very first iterations of BG, getting my ass kicked by some of the best players in the game. I (and a few others) gave strong feedback to Kabam that BG as it was originally conceived, which was more or less just the Gladiator Circuit, would be too hostile to newer and less experienced players. All of VT, including all of the promotion rewards you earn for promoting in VT and the milestone rewards for participating in BG at all, are the result of that feedback from beta testers to try to make BG more inclusive. If not for that, every player would be fighting against every other player from day one, matching by rating only.
The problem is that when Kabam was experimenting with matching criteria, at one point they tried out a system whereby players would only match against players of similar roster strength all the way up to GC. This is horribly broken and Kabam should have known better. This was broken when they implemented it in Alliance War, because it is extremely unfair to stronger roster players and allows weaker roster players to overtake stronger roster players without ever having to face them. They eventually moderated this, reducing the degree to which this protection existed to lower VT tiers only, but the damage was done. Players who experienced this believed this was actually fair, when it is isn't fair to the playerbase as a whole. So Kabam gets blamed for being hostile to the playerbase, when the entire system of VT itself is Kabam taking a competitive game mode and adding training wheels to it to allow weaker players to still participate and get a large amount of rewards from it.
I'm going to set aside the "horrible events" complaint as being highly subjective (and in the interests of not breaking the forum posting limit) and move on to "cash grab offers." As I described in another post most players don't spend. The vast majority of players play this game completely for free, paying nothing at all. The cash offers in this game specifically try to get those who can afford to pay the most to actually pay the most, and in return everyone else pays less, or even nothing. This is a huge benefit for most of the players, who get the game for free, or for relatively little spend.
And what do those spenders get in return for basically subsidizing the entire rest of the hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people who have played and are playing this game? Do they get something the rest of us don't? For the most part, no, they don't. They just get stuff we will eventually get sooner than everyone else. They get time. And that advantage doesn't last either. Think about what the biggest whales in the game could possible have amassed just a couple years ago. If they took a break then and returned to the game now, their accounts would be mediocre. Players who started on the day they took their break could have easily overtaken them. Spending doesn't offer unique advantages, and it doesn't offer permanent advantages. It doesn't give spenders a different, roped off part of the game. They just get in early. A player recently managed to speed run to Paragon in nine days completely for free. Now, I don't expect the average player to be able to reach Paragon in nine days. But this demonstrates that there are no actual *barriers* to get to Paragon in the game. Anyone who says that you cannot get to Paragon without spending or tons of grinding, or that the game "holds players back" is provably wrong.
In fact, the game is extremely friendly to new players, and extremely friendly to lower players. The opportunities to progress are there for those that take advantage of them. It isn't just about Valiant players. Spenders get to spend, but free to play players also get to play, and they can go as far as their skills and knowledge will take them. Players can start today, and still catch up with the ten year vets. There are no oppressed segments of the player population; the game considers them all, and gives them all opportunities to play, to advance, to compete.
There''s no "we" here. Some of us complain about this, some of us complain about that. But for every player that is currently complaining about "unfair match ups" there were other people demanding that those previous "fair" match ups be discontinued as they were seen as themselves extremely unfair. There are people who complain about the cash offers, but look at the complaints. Some complain that they have too much value and give too much advantage to whales. Some complain about the opposite, that they don't contain enough value and are "outdated" or otherwise not worth buying. I can think of players who do both almost simultaneously, without a shred of ironic awareness. And yet the vast majority of players get to play a game like this completely for free. They are getting huge value for nothing. I doubt if most of them are complaining about the fact that the whales are subsidizing their gameplay.
The evidence that Kabam cares about their playerbase is self evident in the way the game works, for those that actually want to look at it objectively. The problem comes when people look at all the complaints, and yes there are a lot of them and yes, there is a lot of validity to many if not most of them, and assume that because there are a lot of complaints, *everyone* is complaining about *everything*. But that's not true. I've been on the forums for almost as long as I've been playing the game, and I've been observing forum complaints since before 12.0. Individuals complain. Different individuals complain about different things. But whenever there is a temporary sense that everyone is in agreement about even a single complaint, I find that the moment people start proposing solutions to that issue, that agreement falls apart. Everyone agrees that there is a problem, but they don't agree on what that problem actually is.
And that's the issue that Kabam faces. When Jax says you can't please everyone, it is because this idea that "we" all agree on what the problems are is an illusion. We don't all agree, because implementing any player's solution to a problem is guaranteed to piss off almost everyone else. Think about Battlegrounds. Implementing what some people consider "fair matchups" is guaranteed to anger a whole lot of other players - because it did originally, and forced Kabam to change it in the first place. And what's the solution to cash offers milking the whales? Structuring the monetization of the game so that everyone has to spend? Because that's the only other option. The whales spend, or everyone does. And what's the solution to the cash offers giving whales too much stuff, when people also think cash offers have insufficient value? How do we make them have less value and more stuff?
Kabam doesn't do everything right. That's not the point here. The point is that Kabam doesn't get credit for the things they do that are right, and they even get blamed for things they did right that someone else thinks is wrong. They add a Victory Track to Battlegrounds, they add promotion rewards to VT separate from the rank rewards in GC, and they add participation rewards in the form of milestones. All of that is there just for the weaker players in the game, and none of it was in the original conception for Battlegrounds. AND THEY RESPONDED TO PLAYER COMPLAINTS ABOUT MATCH MAKING SEVERAL TIMES. They removed deck matching, they added roster matching to help lower strength players, but they get blamed for not using roster matching all the way up to GC. And even though this game has virtually no paywalls, and you can do everything for free and progress to the top of the game for free, they still get blamed for having bad monetization - BOTH by having offers that have too much value and by having offers that have too little value.
What *I* see is a flawed game that does a lot of things wrong, but does so many critical things right. I see a game that tries hard to be as accessible as possible to as wide a playerbase as possible. It doesn't always succeed, but it does try, and it succeeds often enough. And when I see complaints about how Kabam doesn't at all care about the players, I wonder what sort of life experiences go into a complaint like that. What makes someone think that this, all of this around here, is an example of being mistreated in an online game. I've been playing online games for as long as online games have existed, and I don't get it.
Honestly Jax, the response is appreciated so much more than you would realise, even just an acknowledgement is more than most expected.
But unfortunately, this just sounds like you and the other community managers see our complaints, push for change but those with the power to introduce this change don't care.
You've seen our complaints of back to back war season node being unplayable, BG rewards not being updated for nearly a year and a half and still needing another month or two, stores not being updated and when they do the update is almost pointless ie incursions leaving 6* crystals at same price but just add a 7* crystal, loyalty just adding a new potion level and increase amount to spend but not reducing price of potions or anything else, BG store adding valiant offers but leaving Paragon untouched.
Just a few things that can and need to be changed and I honestly have NO DOUBT you and the others are pushing this because it will only make your lives easier but it seems to be falling on death ears. You, Miike and the others are the front and take the blunt of the community frustration and that is unfair especially if you cannot push change, which is exactly how this sounds.
Now, I think you might be misrepresenting the interactions with your own head-canon, which is dangerous.
The community management team doesn't do anything because "it will only make [our] lives easier"... or any time the community decided to yell about something, we'd see a change. The community doesn't run the game, and I assure you, you're more grateful for that than you realize. I think we all might need to accept the fact that we can't have things exactly the way we want them.
We see concerns, yes; we advocate for the community, yes; we care, yes. But that doesn't mean we give every community member exactly what they want, exactly when they want it. When a subset of the community is upset about something and wants to see a change, that doesn't mean it's automatically going to see one. As I said in my original post: you must always consider the difference between what the community wants and what the game needs - and the game team are the ones who ultimately make that decision. It doesn't mean we're not listening.
Sometimes it's even simpler than that: there are cases of changes requiring a lot of time and effort to pull together, so, just because something is brought up as a concern, doesn't mean everything gets changed at the drop of a hat.
If they care and want to make us happy, then fix the problems… Inputs and ai are trash on my iPad Pro, it might work great for other devices, but I experience unreliable controls in a game that 100% relies on precision controls. The ai makes it far less fun than it has the potential to be, same with these node choices. The defensive champs will eventually see more counters over time, but my immediate concerns are inputs and ai… I’m a spender, but I’m not spending on a broken product.
So are you saying you agree with the OP, that Kabam doesn't do anything to show they care about the playerbase when it comes to the content, game modes, and monetization of the game? Or are you saying that the only way to show they care about the playerbase is to fix your specific complaints, and if they don't address your specific complaints that is proof they don't care about the entire playerbase?
Imagine someone telling you that you only care what they think if you do what they say. What would your reaction to that statement be? I know what mine would be.
Actions speak louder than words… it’s clear Kabam wants money which they can get from 1% who they cater content for. Everyone else can get lost… “time is not a relevant resource” = creating a fun game is not the goal, well congrats Kabam in this you have succeeded!!
Actions speak louder than words… it’s clear Kabam wants money which they can get from 1% who they cater content for. Everyone else can get lost… “time is not a relevant resource” = creating a fun game is not the goal, well congrats Kabam in this you have succeeded!!
Man, I'm glad my words resonated so loudly within the community. But I don't think I've ever been quite so terribly misquoted before. I never said "your time wasn't valuable", as many have claimed...
When discussing economical balance within the game, the game team has to manage a cost associated with attempting to gain rewards. A cost in the form of units, energy, consumables... Time isn't on that list, because it is not an in-game item and the game team doesn't have control over it. So, making the argument that Summoners are "spending" their time, doesn't qualify as a cost. That is the only context in which I explained time doesn't count as a resource. In the literal sense. When discussing the in-game economy.
Feels a lot like a high school teacher trying to stop the kids in the class from making fun of them for the one thing they've stuck to, and I'm sure it'll just cause the same kids to flare up and get louder and bolder, but I just felt I'd set the record straight.
Actions speak louder than words… it’s clear Kabam wants money which they can get from 1% who they cater content for. Everyone else can get lost… “time is not a relevant resource” = creating a fun game is not the goal, well congrats Kabam in this you have succeeded!!
I didn't think anyone was going to have a worse take than OP but I'm pretty sure you just exceeded it.
Actions speak louder than words… it’s clear Kabam wants money which they can get from 1% who they cater content for. Everyone else can get lost… “time is not a relevant resource” = creating a fun game is not the goal, well congrats Kabam in this you have succeeded!!
Man, I'm glad my words resonated so loudly within the community. But I don't think I've ever been quite so terribly misquoted before. I never said "your time wasn't valuable", as many have claimed...
When discussing economical balance within the game, the game team has to manage a cost associated with attempting to gain rewards. A cost in the form of units, energy, consumables... Time isn't on that list, because it is not an in-game item and the game team doesn't have control over it. So, making the argument that Summoners are "spending" their time, doesn't qualify as a cost. That is the only context in which I explained time doesn't count as a resource. In the literal sense. When discussing the in-game economy.
Feels a lot like a high school teacher trying to stop the kids in the class from making fun of them for the one thing they've stuck to, and I'm sure it'll just cause the same kids to flare up and get louder and bolder, but I just felt I'd set the record straight.
You've been meme'd. It will never go away. You will wear this like a tattoo forever, and all of the context (which is spot on, by the way) will be lost to the recesses of the internet.
Actions speak louder than words… it’s clear Kabam wants money which they can get from 1% who they cater content for. Everyone else can get lost… “time is not a relevant resource” = creating a fun game is not the goal, well congrats Kabam in this you have succeeded!!
Man, I'm glad my words resonated so loudly within the community. But I don't think I've ever been quite so terribly misquoted before. I never said "your time wasn't valuable", as many have claimed...
When discussing economical balance within the game, the game team has to manage a cost associated with attempting to gain rewards. A cost in the form of units, energy, consumables... Time isn't on that list, because it is not an in-game item and the game team doesn't have control over it. So, making the argument that Summoners are "spending" their time, doesn't qualify as a cost. That is the only context in which I explained time doesn't count as a resource. In the literal sense. When discussing the in-game economy.
Feels a lot like a high school teacher trying to stop the kids in the class from making fun of them for the one thing they've stuck to, and I'm sure it'll just cause the same kids to flare up and get louder and bolder, but I just felt I'd set the record straight.
You've been meme'd. It will never go away. You will wear this like a tattoo forever, and all of the context (which is spot on, by the way) will be lost to the recesses of the internet.
Nobody will ever dethrone you as the biggest meme in this entire game, your title is safe.
Actions speak louder than words… it’s clear Kabam wants money which they can get from 1% who they cater content for. Everyone else can get lost… “time is not a relevant resource” = creating a fun game is not the goal, well congrats Kabam in this you have succeeded!!
Man, I'm glad my words resonated so loudly within the community. But I don't think I've ever been quite so terribly misquoted before. I never said "your time wasn't valuable", as many have claimed...
When discussing economical balance within the game, the game team has to manage a cost associated with attempting to gain rewards. A cost in the form of units, energy, consumables... Time isn't on that list, because it is not an in-game item and the game team doesn't have control over it. So, making the argument that Summoners are "spending" their time, doesn't qualify as a cost. That is the only context in which I explained time doesn't count as a resource. In the literal sense. When discussing the in-game economy.
Feels a lot like a high school teacher trying to stop the kids in the class from making fun of them for the one thing they've stuck to, and I'm sure it'll just cause the same kids to flare up and get louder and bolder, but I just felt I'd set the record straight.
You've been meme'd. It will never go away. You will wear this like a tattoo forever, and all of the context (which is spot on, by the way) will be lost to the recesses of the internet.
Comments
Jax: You're not wrong... but sometimes people feel like it's mandatory to spend money, lest they be unable to continue. Sunk cost fallacy kicks in and then they're not spending money because they "enjoy" it but instead do so begrudgingly - that's how we end up on the forums with complaints like the ones you see so frequently.
In general (especially for newer players), spending in this game doesn't feel rewarding - it feels like something you're required to do if you want to enjoy the game at the pace set by the content release schedule. There are exceptions to this, of course... piggy bank deals, double track events, etc., but it doesn't change the fact that many lower-progress players are absolutely inundated with purchase options that, from their perspective, exist solely to get them "un-stuck" in situations that seem engineered to get them stuck in the first place.
I understand that it's a difficult balance. You are, after all, running a business whose purpose is to keep the game alive and, in turn, to keep people employed who allow that to happen... but I would suggest brainstorming ways to make more purchase options that make the player (especially newer & low-progress players) feel rewarded while giving them more FREE options for getting "un-stuck".
I don't know what this would look like, but I hope it's at least something worth thinking about.
I think you may have missed the general sentiment intended with my post. It is this: We care about the community, we try to advocate for the masses, and just because you can't see it happening, doesn't mean it isn't.
Furthermore, we understand we can't please everyone, and just because you're upset about something, doesn't mean the team is going to jump to cater to your specific needs - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of one.
Sentimentality only goes so far, and as much as ide love to accept it at face value, isn't that what we've been doing for years now? Behind the scenes talk/data can be whatever you want it to be, but the reality is valiants got it EASY. Easy VT matches, where they can rampantly destroy lower decks with pay to win new characters, side quests catered to people with giant decks of all ranked characters to be able to squish Winter of woe for examples... I don't dismiss their hard work or wallet to get to that point, but let other players enjoy the game...
Do we get better daily crystals and some selectors? Yes, but necro took a lot of grinded resources.
But roster is very different. The only need for valiant is 2 R3 7s... that is not likely going to vastly set you apart from veteran paragon accounts in BGs.
Winter of Woe is also not greatly affected because we can only use 1 champ each time... unlikely to be our R3 champ (except hulk against abs).
Instead of complaining in circles on forums, go get yourself in the arena for some units and become valiant yourself.
Read the room dude.
But unfortunately, this just sounds like you and the other community managers see our complaints, push for change but those with the power to introduce this change don't care.
You've seen our complaints of back to back war season node being unplayable, BG rewards not being updated for nearly a year and a half and still needing another month or two, stores not being updated and when they do the update is almost pointless ie incursions leaving 6* crystals at same price but just add a 7* crystal, loyalty just adding a new potion level and increase amount to spend but not reducing price of potions or anything else, BG store adding valiant offers but leaving Paragon untouched.
Just a few things that can and need to be changed and I honestly have NO DOUBT you and the others are pushing this because it will only make your lives easier but it seems to be falling on death ears. You, Miike and the others are the front and take the blunt of the community frustration and that is unfair especially if you cannot push change, which is exactly how this sounds.
All of us have some thing they don't like about the game. All of us have observed problems, issues, or other things they'd like to see changed or improved. It can be easy to look around, see all the problems and complaints, and think there is some massive "we" that all agree on everything wrong with the game. It can be easy to assume that I represent everyone else and all of their complaints. But in fact, that's completely false. The people complaining about AW tactics are not all the same people complaining about Battleground match making. In fact, the people complaining about AW tactics today are not even all the same people that were complaining about it earlier.
As @Kabam Jax mentioned, you can't please everyone. But that can seem like an excuse. So let's look at the specific complaints the OP made, and I quote: "Literally all I see is unfair match ups in bgs, horrible events, cash grab offers that put whales years beyond everyone else, and incredibly mediocre rewards for actual content." I'm going to focus on two, the two that can be examined objectively.
First of all, the existence of the Victory Track in Battlegrounds is itself proof that Kabam thinks about their playerbase, and tries to make things reasonable for as wide of a cross section of players as possible. The Victory Track is not part of the original conception of Battlegrounds. I was there when Kabam was testing the very first iterations of BG, getting my ass kicked by some of the best players in the game. I (and a few others) gave strong feedback to Kabam that BG as it was originally conceived, which was more or less just the Gladiator Circuit, would be too hostile to newer and less experienced players. All of VT, including all of the promotion rewards you earn for promoting in VT and the milestone rewards for participating in BG at all, are the result of that feedback from beta testers to try to make BG more inclusive. If not for that, every player would be fighting against every other player from day one, matching by rating only.
The problem is that when Kabam was experimenting with matching criteria, at one point they tried out a system whereby players would only match against players of similar roster strength all the way up to GC. This is horribly broken and Kabam should have known better. This was broken when they implemented it in Alliance War, because it is extremely unfair to stronger roster players and allows weaker roster players to overtake stronger roster players without ever having to face them. They eventually moderated this, reducing the degree to which this protection existed to lower VT tiers only, but the damage was done. Players who experienced this believed this was actually fair, when it is isn't fair to the playerbase as a whole. So Kabam gets blamed for being hostile to the playerbase, when the entire system of VT itself is Kabam taking a competitive game mode and adding training wheels to it to allow weaker players to still participate and get a large amount of rewards from it.
I'm going to set aside the "horrible events" complaint as being highly subjective (and in the interests of not breaking the forum posting limit) and move on to "cash grab offers." As I described in another post most players don't spend. The vast majority of players play this game completely for free, paying nothing at all. The cash offers in this game specifically try to get those who can afford to pay the most to actually pay the most, and in return everyone else pays less, or even nothing. This is a huge benefit for most of the players, who get the game for free, or for relatively little spend.
And what do those spenders get in return for basically subsidizing the entire rest of the hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people who have played and are playing this game? Do they get something the rest of us don't? For the most part, no, they don't. They just get stuff we will eventually get sooner than everyone else. They get time. And that advantage doesn't last either. Think about what the biggest whales in the game could possible have amassed just a couple years ago. If they took a break then and returned to the game now, their accounts would be mediocre. Players who started on the day they took their break could have easily overtaken them. Spending doesn't offer unique advantages, and it doesn't offer permanent advantages. It doesn't give spenders a different, roped off part of the game. They just get in early. A player recently managed to speed run to Paragon in nine days completely for free. Now, I don't expect the average player to be able to reach Paragon in nine days. But this demonstrates that there are no actual *barriers* to get to Paragon in the game. Anyone who says that you cannot get to Paragon without spending or tons of grinding, or that the game "holds players back" is provably wrong.
In fact, the game is extremely friendly to new players, and extremely friendly to lower players. The opportunities to progress are there for those that take advantage of them. It isn't just about Valiant players. Spenders get to spend, but free to play players also get to play, and they can go as far as their skills and knowledge will take them. Players can start today, and still catch up with the ten year vets. There are no oppressed segments of the player population; the game considers them all, and gives them all opportunities to play, to advance, to compete.
There''s no "we" here. Some of us complain about this, some of us complain about that. But for every player that is currently complaining about "unfair match ups" there were other people demanding that those previous "fair" match ups be discontinued as they were seen as themselves extremely unfair. There are people who complain about the cash offers, but look at the complaints. Some complain that they have too much value and give too much advantage to whales. Some complain about the opposite, that they don't contain enough value and are "outdated" or otherwise not worth buying. I can think of players who do both almost simultaneously, without a shred of ironic awareness. And yet the vast majority of players get to play a game like this completely for free. They are getting huge value for nothing. I doubt if most of them are complaining about the fact that the whales are subsidizing their gameplay.
The evidence that Kabam cares about their playerbase is self evident in the way the game works, for those that actually want to look at it objectively. The problem comes when people look at all the complaints, and yes there are a lot of them and yes, there is a lot of validity to many if not most of them, and assume that because there are a lot of complaints, *everyone* is complaining about *everything*. But that's not true. I've been on the forums for almost as long as I've been playing the game, and I've been observing forum complaints since before 12.0. Individuals complain. Different individuals complain about different things. But whenever there is a temporary sense that everyone is in agreement about even a single complaint, I find that the moment people start proposing solutions to that issue, that agreement falls apart. Everyone agrees that there is a problem, but they don't agree on what that problem actually is.
And that's the issue that Kabam faces. When Jax says you can't please everyone, it is because this idea that "we" all agree on what the problems are is an illusion. We don't all agree, because implementing any player's solution to a problem is guaranteed to piss off almost everyone else. Think about Battlegrounds. Implementing what some people consider "fair matchups" is guaranteed to anger a whole lot of other players - because it did originally, and forced Kabam to change it in the first place. And what's the solution to cash offers milking the whales? Structuring the monetization of the game so that everyone has to spend? Because that's the only other option. The whales spend, or everyone does. And what's the solution to the cash offers giving whales too much stuff, when people also think cash offers have insufficient value? How do we make them have less value and more stuff?
Kabam doesn't do everything right. That's not the point here. The point is that Kabam doesn't get credit for the things they do that are right, and they even get blamed for things they did right that someone else thinks is wrong. They add a Victory Track to Battlegrounds, they add promotion rewards to VT separate from the rank rewards in GC, and they add participation rewards in the form of milestones. All of that is there just for the weaker players in the game, and none of it was in the original conception for Battlegrounds. AND THEY RESPONDED TO PLAYER COMPLAINTS ABOUT MATCH MAKING SEVERAL TIMES. They removed deck matching, they added roster matching to help lower strength players, but they get blamed for not using roster matching all the way up to GC. And even though this game has virtually no paywalls, and you can do everything for free and progress to the top of the game for free, they still get blamed for having bad monetization - BOTH by having offers that have too much value and by having offers that have too little value.
What *I* see is a flawed game that does a lot of things wrong, but does so many critical things right. I see a game that tries hard to be as accessible as possible to as wide a playerbase as possible. It doesn't always succeed, but it does try, and it succeeds often enough. And when I see complaints about how Kabam doesn't at all care about the players, I wonder what sort of life experiences go into a complaint like that. What makes someone think that this, all of this around here, is an example of being mistreated in an online game. I've been playing online games for as long as online games have existed, and I don't get it.
PS: @DrZola, this is a DNA-length post.
The community management team doesn't do anything because "it will only make [our] lives easier"... or any time the community decided to yell about something, we'd see a change. The community doesn't run the game, and I assure you, you're more grateful for that than you realize. I think we all might need to accept the fact that we can't have things exactly the way we want them.
We see concerns, yes; we advocate for the community, yes; we care, yes. But that doesn't mean we give every community member exactly what they want, exactly when they want it. When a subset of the community is upset about something and wants to see a change, that doesn't mean it's automatically going to see one. As I said in my original post: you must always consider the difference between what the community wants and what the game needs - and the game team are the ones who ultimately make that decision. It doesn't mean we're not listening.
Sometimes it's even simpler than that: there are cases of changes requiring a lot of time and effort to pull together, so, just because something is brought up as a concern, doesn't mean everything gets changed at the drop of a hat.
Imagine someone telling you that you only care what they think if you do what they say. What would your reaction to that statement be? I know what mine would be.
When discussing economical balance within the game, the game team has to manage a cost associated with attempting to gain rewards. A cost in the form of units, energy, consumables... Time isn't on that list, because it is not an in-game item and the game team doesn't have control over it. So, making the argument that Summoners are "spending" their time, doesn't qualify as a cost. That is the only context in which I explained time doesn't count as a resource. In the literal sense. When discussing the in-game economy.
Feels a lot like a high school teacher trying to stop the kids in the class from making fun of them for the one thing they've stuck to, and I'm sure it'll just cause the same kids to flare up and get louder and bolder, but I just felt I'd set the record straight.