Developers Thoughts: Improving Alliance Wars Discussion Thread

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  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 6,844
    It’s kabams fault

    People keep saying this, and I have no idea why. Yes, it is Kabam's "fault" because they made the game in the first place. Therefore, it is their responsibility to fix it, by changing the game to address problems in the game.
  • MrMac1MrMac1 Posts: 2
    Lagacy69 wrote: »
    Buff 2 - Bleed Immunity:
    - Bleed immunity affects Defenders
    - Bringing in Debuff heavy Champions will still be a viable option, but Champions that rely heavily on Bleed will not be as effective this Season.

    Can you please expand on this. A R5 killmonger on node 29 will now be impposible to beat unless you have a corvius. People would use blade because that was the only other counter. Node 29 is a problem and you are not hellping this out at all, just making it a lot more difficult

    Blade isn’t even the best for this node lol. Magik is probably the best, Void also works great and Corvus. Also bleed immunity might help blade on this fight because you won’t have to worry about cornered...

    This is actually what I was going to say. Not the thing about Magik (although, definitely a good choice), but that Blade will not be triggering Cornered, and with his synergies can still reduce the Ability Accuracy of Killmonger.

    @Kabam Miike are you able to confirm that Blade won't switch off the global node with Danger Sense, given that he can switch off local nodes? It would be a bad time for him to switch off the immunity, fire off the SP2 and for the opponent to go straight to an SP3. Thanks :)
  • PaytoPlayPaytoPlay Posts: 756
    edited October 2018
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Problem with countering blade is that it counters half of all skill champs ... bleed immunity destroys GP and KM more than Blade

    One thing I think Kabam should have done was make female champions unaffected by the global bleed immunity. I think it is counterproductive to buff female champs on offense, then take their bleeds away on defense. That would specifically address champs like Gwenpool and Elektra. But also Medusa, Gamora, Guillotine, and X-23, who I think are all viable attackers on at least some tiers of AW.

    Maybe a 'safe sense' node is needed just to counter blade.... Lol jk
  • GmonkeyGmonkey Posts: 326
    edited October 2018

    Do you have any suggestions on how we can do that? Like any tools in particular would be helpful in this kind of stuff?

    Mike,
    The community could build a tool if it possible to export out our rosters To cab or JSON. I had tried doing this manually but I spent all my time updating spreadsheets.
  • What you guys are trying to make blade & corvus not so useful? Does Kabam remember the cheat code they just released named ghost. What happens when she makes it into the basic pool? Everyone will just start attacking with her and killing bosses in a minute. After you guys noticed that you're going to Nerf ghost or you just going to make a global buff that doesn't allow Critical Hits
  • My alliance hasn’t played wars since session 2 being in a low level alliance only 10 members it’s set up for the whales and big wallet’s the matchups killed us just got tired of loosing every match
  • I think better matchmaking is paramount to the experience. There have been many times my alliance has been rediculously outmatched. This has directly impacted our season rewards ( which seem pretty weak if you are below gold tier). Also a definitive answer to this question would be appreciated. ( it may be out there and I haven’t seen it). ARE SYNERGIES ACTIVE IN WAR?
  • issamaf80issamaf80 Posts: 1,081
    So I see both sides of this.

    Kabam side:

    They want to increase sales of crystals for these champs who are uneffected, especially your OP female champs: ghost, Emma, wasp. Even good ones like rogue, próxima. I also understand they want us using different champs to beat other alliances. Too many times do I go into my defensive map and see 8 blades, 8 ghost riders and like 4-5 stark spiders.

    Our side:
    It’s kabams fault though, they put out these overpowering champs like blade with the synergies and the Corvus of the world. If you can use a champ that can clear everything, why use something else?

    Continuing on our side, the changes are really annoying and I agree with the player base. As a leader I spend too much time dealing with placement, diversity, and changing all of that when a new player comes along. This is a pain and shouldn’t need to be done often. With the new changes you have to do it again.

    The bleed immunity is pretty bad, a few reasons. I am a blade user, but don’t care about his bleed I primarily use him for danger sense. What hurts is a few of my alliance members use AA for specific champs (modok mostly) and now you just broke his main source of damage. Without Nuerotoxin he hits like a 4 year old girl.

    Gwenpool can no longer extend her power lock, armor break or incinerate, which hurts her attack.

    Carnage who you just buffed will no longer power gain as quickly as you amped him up to be. pretty sure people who JUST ranked him are PISSED

    I understand the changes but don’t put out nerfs of some OP champs, as someone said up there. Maybe put out nodes like:

    Season 5: female amped up champs for attack and on defense hero’s have tranquility every 35 seconds

    Season 6: hero’s have a chance to proc a 5 second fury. Villain defenders are not effected by ability reduction

    Season 7: villain attackers have amped up hero defenders have a chance to power gain 10% when a debuff is applied.

    Something in those lines, don’t just hinder a HUGE base of attackers.

    agree with you but still Carnage will sill get Power Gain fast by armor Breaking
  • Nearly four months ago, I left leadership with a top rated alliance with legendary members and new friends, to help an old friend build a new alliance. The task was extremely difficult. Balancing 30 members in 3 groups required careful review of who participated, how well they could be expected to participate (largely based on roster) I have been in leadership for almost two years, setting defense for AW, sometimes all 3 BGs. I cannot stress enough how difficult it has been to create 3 solid BGs calable of winning AWs and clearing 100% in AQ- map 4+. We have FINALLY gotten solid BGs after months of trial and error. Almost everyone in our alliance and all previous alliances build their champ base around how effective their team will be for AW offense, AW Defense and always top 3 for AQ. That’s 11 total champs needed. 4* r5 or better is almost a must or they will fail. This strains every member to participate in groups and complete difficult event quests & story line. It’s not the players fault for being a long time member and having better options than a newer member and dosnt seem fair to just nerf other stronger players because they have better. Most. Only have better because we put the time and effort into building our rosters, building our alliances and keeping up with an ever changing landelscale.I would be crushed if my roster is necessary again just because it didn’t seem “fair” to newbies with no roster. They need to play more or pay more to get ahead, not handed on a golden platter. If this affects a large amount of champs and abilities as you say, then do t take so much away from people and tell them at the same time not to expect any chance to adjust to these changes themselves. Like saying, “No rank down tickets ever” but we are working to change how your best champions work l, so you may have waisted a to. Ifof rescind es and time, it hey, we that’s just how it is. I understand change is neccasery, but change should work both ways. I had MD mastery at 5/5 and HALF my top champs are mystic. By changing this, it affected half my roster. I was pissed I was now stuck with weaker champs than I had before. If ALL champs continue to be nerfed, while others are raised up, it’s not right to take away from your core players and not give back the opportunity to make whatever changes may be needed to their rosters to adjust for it. Like all hope is being extinguished and it’s stated no relief will be given. This gives an I air amount disadvantage to everyone that worked hard for their teams while granting other an edge to that have put I. Half the effort. It is what it is, but that’s my two cents.
  • MrchampMrchamp Posts: 31
    These changes aren’t going to affect the Meta of alliance war. Unless you come out with absurd global nodes or even limit champion selection for aw. As much as you wanna preech diversity and all. No one wants to see colossus and groot and kamala kahn in aw or anywhere near it. The same 5-8 top attacking champions are going to dominate and the same main defenders are going to rule the maps on defense. If you guys seriously wanted to make this purely on skill than remove boosts and potions from alliance wars and only and bring back defender kills.

    Seriously the only way you are gunna get players to set some of these lower tier champions is if you custom make nodes that specifically help them.
    I.e whenever you place a punisher for defense he starts with two bars of power and his sp2 is unblockable or if someone wants to place a groot he is debuff immune and has like 2% regen permentaly. That’s really the only way you guys can get some of these lower champions some love.
  • TreoTreo Posts: 153
    In the competive way of thinking the amount of bugs need to be as low as possible ... so my question is when will the Medusa auto block fury loss bug be fixed ? This had to be fixed a long time ago and it still isn’t fixed could you at least give us an estimate on how long you think you will still need ???
  • People cheat because they can get away or the punishment is too light. I suppose you do not want to kill your goose laying the golden egg for you. Here’s how you can punish while boosting your sales.

    - Confiscate some of their T5B shards or T2A catalysts
    - for repeated offenders, rank down their top champ 1 rank.

    These are whales so they would only spend more to compensate as result. Win-win!
  • Xthea9Xthea9 Posts: 829
    Just sharing my views, nothing against of anything and welcome all the changes.

    AW is really important for all of us , the back bone of the game and everyone wants to test their team with against someone.

    There are few basic features of AW that needs fixing first , I am not against of the new changes but in the race of new welcoming changes we are always putting the basic things on back burner and thinking that the new change will mitigate.

    Basic things in AW
    1. Matchups/ matchmaking
    2. Champions synergies
    3. AW rating calculation

    Point no. 2 is very important, if the champs synergies working in AW , new buff and diversity both gets resolved , if I am placing my defense in AW , I will read through the nodes and see how my defense synergies can be used in my favor and bring that defense.

    Certainly we have to rank/ level up champs accordingly, but since it’s the tacit fact that synergies are not working in AW , we all assumed and didn’t pay attention to this , unless some official confirmation we get that synergies are working as intended.

    Now we have a very diversed pool of champions with different synergies which we can use strategically in defense and offense to counter nodes and buffs.

    Additionally it will be easy for developers too , to come up with new buffs and nodes considering the synergies which is kinda cool.

    Rest everything is good , not complaining for anything just expecting some light on the long pending thoughts.

    Thanks !
  • If you want us to diversify more give each alliance 1 random character as a must use in defense to get the points.
    Option 2: reduce the effectiveness of duplicates.
    Option 3: instead of global nodes... after placement phase but before attack phase have the system randomly shuffle the nodes with champs around- exceptions being miniboss and main boss.
  • Vale84Vale84 Posts: 307
    honestly.

    Take out bleed off bleeders and they are meh dmg output champions. All of them but...Blade. Danger Sense will still raise damage. So basically this change will only make him used more, the opposite entirely.

    aka

    Use blade, but please spend more.
  • PaytoPlayPaytoPlay Posts: 756
    edited October 2018
    Also for future planning purposes, the sole ability of a single champ (with synergy) should not kill off majority of the game roster. You don't really see many complains about evade even when true strike got introduced because multiple champions share those abilities (eg. Also regen and degen) I am personally not in favor of danger sense (even though I like blade and his overall ability) but If you want more diversity give a few more champs `danger sense` but for different classes or maybe even for heros.

  • It's obvious that there is a better defenders and better attackers.. it's obvious because every champ we're upgrading with the scarce resources the game offer is making us realise that there are champs simply not rank up worthy. Any changes will only affect the wails that can spend huge amounts of money to get new champs that usually can deal with things most of the champs simply can't, and ranking them up. Again, most of the players will just be put down with changes that nerf champs that they waited a long time to get and saved resources to rank. If you want us to use more champs, give us the chance to rank more up.
    That's been said, an afficiant recruiting and alliance search tools are most needed and will be awesome to have.
  • DrakeDrake Posts: 46
    I view this as a step in the right direction, but hope for something more drastic.

    Global nodes are cool, but would it be possible to set individual nodes with buffs that only become active if you place one of a small subset of champs on that node?

    Imagine having a node where any champ on it gains +100% attack and health. But it also has bleeds land through blocks, +200% armor against robots, and another +100% attack and health... but *only* if the defender is one of the following... Old Man Logan, Cap WWII, OG Black Panther, Guillotine, or Carnage. Make it a really tough choice to either a use a defender that is highly challenging as they are, or a defender that would activate the node buffs and suddenly become much more attractive.

    Further, between this idea, and the extreme individual ability countering we've seen over the last year, I feel like you could create a highly strategic environment that does not have to rely on hidden nodes, which I've always found to be one of the least fun elements of the game. To be clear, when I say "extreme individual ability countering" I mean where a given champ is extremely effective against 1 or 2 other specific champs by shutting down their main defensive challenge (Proxima against Yondu, Corvus and Venom against IMIW) or conversely, a defensive ability that trips up a usually safe counter (Wasp defending against Iceman.)

    Hidden nodes were an interesting gimmick when the biggest factor in choosing who to fight with was class matchups. But things have gotten so complicated that even bringing a champ with the right class matchup can cost you if the defender isn't who you had to guess it might be. Fundamentally, I strongly dislike any game element where random dumb luck has to big a part in determining success or failure.

    I think if not currently, then very soon the meta will have progressed far enough to where you guys can get rid of the rather unfair concept of hidden nodes in favor of much more varied encounters where you have to build a strategy around known elements rather than the unknown. Frankly I'm tired of being forced to bring Iceman or Killmonger every single time my path has an unstunnable mutant or science. If you want to vary the champs we'll use, then let me see that they put Storm on unstunnable and I'll be willing to bring Sentinel on offense for the first time ever.

    Apart from being much more fun on offense by getting to fully strategize the entire path without random guesswork as a part of the game, having individual node buffs active only with certain defenders would put a LOT more interest behind building your defenses each time. Do you think loading up on Medusa and IMIW will present a greater challenge? Or do you think activating those special node buffs will lead to a harder map? Does your alliance have a guy that leveled up She Hulk to take advantage of the special node buffs she activates? If the node buffs are attractive enough, it'll incentivise us to develop those largely unloved misfit champs, or bring champs we normally like for offense onto defense for a change.

    Imagine the guy who is thought of as a clown right now for maxing Venompool, but as season 9 node buffs are revealed, gets to be a hero and highly sought after for the next couple months!

    Anyway, I hope this is the place for a suggestion like this, and that it's generally well liked. I think it'd be a way to make things just as challenging, but significantly more fun and varied.
  • KalapaharKalapahar Posts: 1
    edited October 2018
    @Kabam Miike
    How about specific star restricted AW or AW map. You can select AW map for different BG just like AQ.

    Say 2* war . You can bring 2* champions or less in offense and defense. (For fresh player in the game to get idea of AW)
    3* war for intermediate players. Maximum rank allowed is 3*
    4* war for advance players.
    All out war. For no bar champions.

    In another way is you can implement prestige based but that’ll give high level player advantage by selling champs and keeping their prestige low.

    Just like AQ, you can select 3 individual battlegroups with respective map. Thus letting smaller player to participate in AW.
    Star system will determine in different rewards bracket.
    Map difficulties will increase based on star level. Buffs and debuff.

    Also another idea is to restrict class champions in certain nodes. Thus each team will know some information prior to war and decide strategy accordingly. These certain node information will be provided in war screen prior to selecting champions.

    I think this will bring dynamic strategy more in war and also better engaging of different levels of summoners.



  • GmonkeyGmonkey Posts: 326
    One issue with the proposal is everyone will be asking for rank down tickets, for blade and gwenpool. It takes 8-10 months to 5/65 a champ unless you are top war tier, you will be punishing the middle tier more with this change who have to grind longer for rank ups. Example I have a 5/65 stark and medusa otherwise no one else worth 5/65, my next one is 7 plus months away, if you nerfed my Stark I would Very upset. If you really want to change attackers create nodes that specifically counter attackers, example make a node where damage from normal attackers is 1/10 and shock does 10 times damage and shock and energy resistance is removed for all defenders. Bet you will see a Thor Jane foster or alternative on offense. Do the same for fire or other abilities. The reduced damage from even god tier will make people time out and other champs will have to be brought.

    Defense diversity is high except for mini bosses as the same champs appear often. Node 29 I have only seen killmonger, magik and medusa ever. This solution is harder as you created the nodes where specific champs excel on them.
  • AleorAleor Posts: 749
    wrote:
    Buff 1 – Amped Up:
    Female Champions you bring to this fight receive increased Class Bonus effects. Half of the Attack bonus is always applied. Specific tuning values will be revealed soon
    Amped up affects the Attacker, so bringing in Female Champions will give your Attack team an offensive boost!

    isn't it some kind of male gender discrimination? will we see male ampeding in future?
    and if you really care about all champs being usefull, just make reworks of older champs more common. it's hard to make xforce dp ok champ, but making magneto or gambit somewhat decent isn't actually dificult. you can search forum for ideas if needed

    also how about implementing some things community does want to see? like fair mach ups, so top alis wouldn't time it in order not to face each other? fair punishment to cheaters so they would't ruin all the fun for lower ones when they dropped in rate? interesting nodes in war for lower tier alls?
  • Instead of adding annoying buffs/debuffs to encourage us to diversify our defense and offensive teams, why not do a top-to-bottom revamp of all champs from the first 2-3 years of the game? Most are totally irrelevant. I get it that you make money from new champs, but if you want to lower community rage and encourage diversity put some meaningful effort into fixing useless ones. 3-5 a month seems doable. Few things are more soul crushing than pulling a useless 5 or 6 star champ after saving shards for weeks or even months. You can do it kabam!
This discussion has been closed.