It was an overpowered mechanic. You knew it then. Don’t act like you didn’t. You took advantage of something that was bound to change in some way. It was a risk. Just like when I took the risk of taking aa to 5/65 and then there’s a bleed immune war season.
Stuff happens. Stop asking for handouts. Millennials suck.
It was an overpowered mechanic. You knew it then. Don’t act like you didn’t. You took advantage of something that was bound to change in some way. It was a risk. Just like when I took the risk of taking aa to 5/65 and then there’s a bleed immune war season.
Stuff happens. Stop asking for handouts. Millennials suck.
Fair point. Just one bleed immune war season though. So far anyway. Look, I’m certainly no millennial and I’m not asking for a handout, but I do agree with the OP that those who maxed out a mystic champ like Juggernaut should be allowed to downrank that champ. Doesn’t affect me either way, but that would be the fair thing to do.
It was an overpowered mechanic. You knew it then. Don’t act like you didn’t. You took advantage of something that was bound to change in some way. It was a risk. Just like when I took the risk of taking aa to 5/65 and then there’s a bleed immune war season.
Stuff happens. Stop asking for handouts. Millennials suck.
Had the MD change lasted 4 weeks you'd have a point but it didn't and you don't. Had they not come out repeatedly and said the MD/dex interaction was as intended then we wouldn't have a point, but they did and we do.
The champs are still doing fine in harder content. I promise that. People are getting pissed about their defenders not getting kills. Who cares? T2 has less than 10 kills a bg. Most of those deaths come from medusa/imiw/korg. Mystic defenders were already becoming something that were on the decline anyways. Just move on, use them in harder content and get more materials.
The champs are still doing fine in harder content. I promise that. People are getting pissed about their defenders not getting kills. Who cares? T2 has less than 10 kills a bg. Most of those deaths come from medusa/imiw/korg. Mystic defenders were already becoming something that were on the decline anyways. Just move on, use them in harder content and get more materials.
That's the point, Blade, and his overwhelming prominence in the game, had already indirectly reduced their effectiveness. That I'm fine with. Defenders having a counter is part of this game.
However, after introducing and flooding the game with that counter, they then piled it on by changing the MD/dex interaction making them pretty much useless in defense. I don't even have a problem with the change but to not even give people who used those resources going off kabam saying it worked as they intended, the chance to change their mind is pretty lame
The champs are still doing fine in harder content. I promise that. People are getting pissed about their defenders not getting kills. Who cares? T2 has less than 10 kills a bg. Most of those deaths come from medusa/imiw/korg. Mystic defenders were already becoming something that were on the decline anyways. Just move on, use them in harder content and get more materials.
That's the point, Blade, and his overwhelming prominence in the game, had already indirectly reduced their effectiveness. That I'm fine with. Defenders having a counter is part of this game.
However, after introducing and flooding the game with that counter, they then piled it on by changing the MD/dex interaction making them pretty much useless in defense. I don't even have a problem with the change but to not even give people who used those resources going off kabam saying it worked as they intended, the chance to change their mind is pretty lame
But they monitored if these champs performed worse after MD change than before. If they were already pretty useless before then the change is obviously not going to affect them enough to warrant RDT
So are you one of those people who are still crying about the AA changes also?
Or Drax changes?
Also maybe your guys arent getting kills because most people are still running the holy trinity in AW attack which shuts down your defenders?
I have a r5/65 magik and you dont here me crying
Props for bringing up irrelevant information to fan the flames. The holy trinity comment had me on the floor, they haven't been a top attack team in high tier AW for months. I'd be surprised if data showed they were still a top 5 attack team option in tier 1. Nearly triple digit amounts of players have commented Voodoo and Magik were barely affected by the MD/Dexterity nerf, which may be one reason why Kabam said they would be keeping an eye on Dormammu and Juggernaut.
I actually dont want a rank down ticket, I want MD to return as it worked intentionally. Many players have champs to counter Mystic champs already, so now after the nerf - defensive mystic champs are worthless I just detest that I have bench warmers and wasted resources.
RDT need to be very limited. Up to Kabam if they want to issue it out specifically for those who ranked 5 a mystic? I agree that Kabam shouldn't hand it out just because it's demanded.
It was an overpowered mechanic. You knew it then. Don’t act like you didn’t. You took advantage of something that was bound to change in some way. It was a risk. Just like when I took the risk of taking aa to 5/65 and then there’s a bleed immune war season.
Stuff happens. Stop asking for handouts. Millennials suck.
RDT need to be very limited. Up to Kabam if they want to issue it out specifically for those who ranked 5 a mystic? I agree that Kabam shouldn't hand it out just because it's demanded.
It was an overpowered mechanic. You knew it then. Don’t act like you didn’t. You took advantage of something that was bound to change in some way. It was a risk. Just like when I took the risk of taking aa to 5/65 and then there’s a bleed immune war season.
Stuff happens. Stop asking for handouts. Millennials suck.
No, you cannot limit it to those who rank 5d a champ and them alone. That would only benefit end game players when the change affects everyone who ranked a mystic champ.
Dont pay attention to people saying this was not a nerf. Moreover, people that have not completed high intense content including platinum AW etc should bot be pretending to know what they are talking about in this thread.
"We're going to continue to keep a close eye on all Mystic Champions after this change, and Dormammu in particular, as this change goes out into the wild".
You then added:
"We have discussed the possibility of Rank Down Tickets, and have not decided for or against them. We're not going to give them out for this change independently of seeing how it actually affects these Champions. While we didn't see any significant/noticeable drops in performance in the Beta, we're going to keep an eye on this now that it will be out in the wild.
The threshold will always vary, and there is no "set" answer that we can give here. We always look at what the impact of the change will be, and examine our data on the topic. I can say that they are not for Meta Shifts. Those are things that will always happen, and are good for the game and need to continue to happen. Those are much more natural and something that we should always expect. This doesn't mean that you should always be wary of where/when you're spending your resources, but remember that what may be the top of the top right now, may not be in a few months or a year.
What we monitor will vary from situation to situation. For example, when looking at the effectiveness of Mystic Dispersion on a Defender, how often does it trigger? On a Defender in general, what is their win rate? How much HP do they end a fight with in comparison to how much they started with (Damage dealt vs Damage taken)? How long are their fights? For an attacker with Mystic Dispersion, how often are they able to make use of it? How often can they get their special attacks off? This is not a one size fits all solution. In an even more general sense, it will include usage rates, and which nodes they are placed on. For instance, are they being used more or less on a Boss Node or a Miniboss node? We have a lot of data collected on the effectiveness of these Champions in the old MD world, and will be comparing the two.
And we are definitely not just going to watch Dormammu! Juggernaut is one that you guys have mentioned, and we're going to make sure he's also very closely monitored. We're going to be watching all of our Mystic Champions in this new MD world!"
So the question is... Did you watch Dormammu? Did you watch Juggernaut? What are the results after monitoring these champions for over 3 months? Still no RDT, no compensation, just a NERF???
Dormammu is pretty much worthless as an AW defender now, I took mine to rank 4 and he was a beast after the changes didn't get 1 kill and took him off defense. I would've never ranked him up if I knew MD was going to be changed.
It was an overpowered mechanic. You knew it then. Don’t act like you didn’t. You took advantage of something that was bound to change in some way. It was a risk. Just like when I took the risk of taking aa to 5/65 and then there’s a bleed immune war season.
Stuff happens. Stop asking for handouts. Millennials suck.
Whether or not it was overpowered is irrelevant. It was working as intended. It hadn't changed in 2 years so in what way was it "bound to change". No one is asking for handouts. OP is asking for a follow up on something Kabam said they would monitor in order to make a decision about rankdowns. Seems like a reasonable request to me.
Are you reading anywhere in this @LeNoirFaineant ???? There are multiple people crying for RDTs on this thread and many others about this very topic. It was overpowered and that is not irrelevant! Kabam wouldn’t of changed it if it wasn’t. When something works as intended, it doesn’t get nerfed. The reason it lasted 2 years is because there wasn’t mephisto, dorm and the others all at once. Once those champs started to pop up with mephisto having power gain, that’s when it started to become an issue.
Things change in games, sports, life constantly. You don’t see nfl teams asking for refunds or answers about kick returners they signed..... things change. Stop crying. Stop demanding answers when they have clearly stated what’s going on. It’s their time frame.
Uh moaning and begging aside asking where they are at with their investigatoion isn’t unreasonable given it’s been at least 2 months since this.
Aside from that I would hazard to guess that they found mystics are still defensively viable champions just not over powered like they used to be in lower tiers. Higher tiers will just spend the 30 units to take off dex and neuter them regardless of Md changes.
It’s been 2 months since they spoke about this, but rogue has had a bug for almost a year. I have her at 4. Haven’t demanded anything from them. I’ll say it again. Everyone who is asking for RDTs most likely have a champion they just want to rank and want a free way to do it.
It’s been 2 months since they spoke about this, but rogue has had a bug for almost a year. I have her at 4. Haven’t demanded anything from them. I’ll say it again. Everyone who is asking for RDTs most likely have a champion they just want to rank and want a free way to do it.
Why didn't you just say "everyone who asks for an item just wants to use it for the specific purpose it's intended for"?
It was an overpowered mechanic. You knew it then. Don’t act like you didn’t. You took advantage of something that was bound to change in some way. It was a risk. Just like when I took the risk of taking aa to 5/65 and then there’s a bleed immune war season.
Stuff happens. Stop asking for handouts. Millennials suck.
Whether or not it was overpowered is irrelevant. It was working as intended. It hadn't changed in 2 years so in what way was it "bound to change".
"Working as intended" is a temporal statement. It is only true relative to the current state of the game. That situation can change in the future. Something that is working as intended by explicit developer statement is not free from being changed in the future. Players are expected to adapt to some reasonable degree of game changes over time.
Whenever something offers a significant far above average advantage in a game like this, players should assume that the advantage could paint a target on it for future downstread rebalancing. I would have bet cash that mystic dispersion was going to be changed eventually. I wouldn't know in what year that would happen, but I would have taken that bet with anyone willing to give me at least an eighteen month time horizon.
Whatever your opinion is on this issue, I'm seeing a ton of unnecessary flags. You don't flag posts for disagreeing with the content, that's not what that is for.
Kabam won't even answer any of that I really don't know what's wrong with those guys they just do whatever they want and never give a damn about the community. They just keep feeding us **** like there gonna have to pay from there pockets to give us RDT. It's a freaking game when a game makes changes for something that was working for years and say it's not major this when u really know that this game is messed up. There main focus is milking them whales that's all. If it was any other game they would've given out massive compensation but kabam clearly says that's it's your fault for trusting our system.
It was an overpowered mechanic. You knew it then. Don’t act like you didn’t. You took advantage of something that was bound to change in some way. It was a risk. Just like when I took the risk of taking aa to 5/65 and then there’s a bleed immune war season.
Stuff happens. Stop asking for handouts. Millennials suck.
Whether or not it was overpowered is irrelevant. It was working as intended. It hadn't changed in 2 years so in what way was it "bound to change".
"Working as intended" is a temporal statement. It is only true relative to the current state of the game. That situation can change in the future. Something that is working as intended by explicit developer statement is not free from being changed in the future. Players are expected to adapt to some reasonable degree of game changes over time.
Whenever something offers a significant far above average advantage in a game like this, players should assume that the advantage could paint a target on it for future downstread rebalancing. I would have bet cash that mystic dispersion was going to be changed eventually. I wouldn't know in what year that would happen, but I would have taken that bet with anyone willing to give me at least an eighteen month time horizon.
Changes are fine imo. As long as there's proper compensation.
Whatever your opinion is on this issue, I'm seeing a ton of unnecessary flags. You don't flag posts for disagreeing with the content, that's not what that is for.
I don't mind spam and abuse flags because it just means Kabam employees must read my posts. As to the Lol flags I picture someone hitting that button and saying "that'll show him" to themselves over and over again. Sometimes in my mental picture they are drooling just a little.
Abuse of the flagging function can only backfire. Literacy and eloquence are the only effective tools on a public forum. Improper use of the flagging buttons is bringing a nerf pistol to a real gun fight and firing it randomly from behind some bushes. It is somewhat amusing and slightly annoying and completely ineffective at doing anything.
It was an overpowered mechanic. You knew it then. Don’t act like you didn’t. You took advantage of something that was bound to change in some way. It was a risk. Just like when I took the risk of taking aa to 5/65 and then there’s a bleed immune war season.
Stuff happens. Stop asking for handouts. Millennials suck.
Whether or not it was overpowered is irrelevant. It was working as intended. It hadn't changed in 2 years so in what way was it "bound to change".
"Working as intended" is a temporal statement. It is only true relative to the current state of the game. That situation can change in the future. Something that is working as intended by explicit developer statement is not free from being changed in the future. Players are expected to adapt to some reasonable degree of game changes over time.
Whenever something offers a significant far above average advantage in a game like this, players should assume that the advantage could paint a target on it for future downstread rebalancing. I would have bet cash that mystic dispersion was going to be changed eventually. I wouldn't know in what year that would happen, but I would have taken that bet with anyone willing to give me at least an eighteen month time horizon.
Changes are fine imo. As long as there's proper compensation.
In the vast majority of MMO-like games I've played (in fact, as far as I can recall this is literally all of them), game balance changes rarely come with compensation. It is pretty clear that every player playing those games is supposed to understand that the game will change right under your feet, and that's part of what you sign up for when you play them. Some changes generate compensation when they are seen as divergent enough from the norm, and the ultimate judge of what is normal is always, always the developers.
I will just say that I don't expect compensation. We had been begging them to fix MD for years and I won't complain that they finally did... but refusing to reply is infuriating.
Eh, people can say "players are supposed to understand". That's fine. But the fact remains that the value of champs that were invested in was lessened. Overcoming that is a net loss for the player. I'm really not interested in unwritten rules or customs. Change what you want, just give me something in return. I'm not a child, nor a millennial as one forum user tossed out to others. If something has a value of x, I invest in it inside the game economy, and it's devalued... I have a problem. It's really no more complicated than that.
And as far as "we had been begging for years"...
SOME people had been begging. And that energy would have been better spent learning to play around it. The MD change wasn't even necessary anymore after the intro of newer champs. The "mystic wars" problem was solved long, long ago.
Are you reading anywhere in this @LeNoirFaineant ???? There are multiple people crying for RDTs on this thread and many others about this very topic. It was overpowered and that is not irrelevant! Kabam wouldn’t of changed it if it wasn’t. When something works as intended, it doesn’t get nerfed. The reason it lasted 2 years is because there wasn’t mephisto, dorm and the others all at once. Once those champs started to pop up with mephisto having power gain, that’s when it started to become an issue.
Things change in games, sports, life constantly. You don’t see nfl teams asking for refunds or answers about kick returners they signed..... things change. Stop crying. Stop demanding answers when they have clearly stated what’s going on. It’s their time frame.
I agree that things change and have no problem with the Mystic D nerf. The fact that it was overpowered is not irrelevant to the reasons for the nerf, however it is irrelevant to your point about people "taking advantage" and it's status as "broken". It was working as intended inasmuch as it was working the way it was advertised. There was no glitch that needed to be fixed. People spend money on the game and ranked some champs based on Mystic D specifically for AW defense. Kabam has every right to change Mystic D, but in a game where real money is in play they have some obligation to the customer when they exorcise this right. We can debate whether the mystic d nerf warrants compensation and rank downs. They said that they hadn't decided and would monitor the results in order to determine this. At the very least they acknowledged that it might require rank downs. OP asked for an update and some people have argued for rank downs on this thread. All reasonable. Maybe we get them and maybe we don't. Personally I don't care either way. But all this talk about "whining" "entitled" and "taking advantage" is stuff and nonsense. Cheers.
Comments
Stuff happens. Stop asking for handouts. Millennials suck.
Fair point. Just one bleed immune war season though. So far anyway. Look, I’m certainly no millennial and I’m not asking for a handout, but I do agree with the OP that those who maxed out a mystic champ like Juggernaut should be allowed to downrank that champ. Doesn’t affect me either way, but that would be the fair thing to do.
Had the MD change lasted 4 weeks you'd have a point but it didn't and you don't. Had they not come out repeatedly and said the MD/dex interaction was as intended then we wouldn't have a point, but they did and we do.
I'm far from a millennial as well.
That's the point, Blade, and his overwhelming prominence in the game, had already indirectly reduced their effectiveness. That I'm fine with. Defenders having a counter is part of this game.
However, after introducing and flooding the game with that counter, they then piled it on by changing the MD/dex interaction making them pretty much useless in defense. I don't even have a problem with the change but to not even give people who used those resources going off kabam saying it worked as they intended, the chance to change their mind is pretty lame
But they monitored if these champs performed worse after MD change than before. If they were already pretty useless before then the change is obviously not going to affect them enough to warrant RDT
Props for bringing up irrelevant information to fan the flames. The holy trinity comment had me on the floor, they haven't been a top attack team in high tier AW for months. I'd be surprised if data showed they were still a top 5 attack team option in tier 1. Nearly triple digit amounts of players have commented Voodoo and Magik were barely affected by the MD/Dexterity nerf, which may be one reason why Kabam said they would be keeping an eye on Dormammu and Juggernaut.
You kind folks have an update on your Mystic Dispersion impact analysis?
No, you cannot limit it to those who rank 5d a champ and them alone. That would only benefit end game players when the change affects everyone who ranked a mystic champ.
You all know the apologist I am referring to.
Dormammu is pretty much worthless as an AW defender now, I took mine to rank 4 and he was a beast after the changes didn't get 1 kill and took him off defense. I would've never ranked him up if I knew MD was going to be changed.
Whether or not it was overpowered is irrelevant. It was working as intended. It hadn't changed in 2 years so in what way was it "bound to change". No one is asking for handouts. OP is asking for a follow up on something Kabam said they would monitor in order to make a decision about rankdowns. Seems like a reasonable request to me.
Things change in games, sports, life constantly. You don’t see nfl teams asking for refunds or answers about kick returners they signed..... things change. Stop crying. Stop demanding answers when they have clearly stated what’s going on. It’s their time frame.
Aside from that I would hazard to guess that they found mystics are still defensively viable champions just not over powered like they used to be in lower tiers. Higher tiers will just spend the 30 units to take off dex and neuter them regardless of Md changes.
Why didn't you just say "everyone who asks for an item just wants to use it for the specific purpose it's intended for"?
"Working as intended" is a temporal statement. It is only true relative to the current state of the game. That situation can change in the future. Something that is working as intended by explicit developer statement is not free from being changed in the future. Players are expected to adapt to some reasonable degree of game changes over time.
Whenever something offers a significant far above average advantage in a game like this, players should assume that the advantage could paint a target on it for future downstread rebalancing. I would have bet cash that mystic dispersion was going to be changed eventually. I wouldn't know in what year that would happen, but I would have taken that bet with anyone willing to give me at least an eighteen month time horizon.
Changes are fine imo. As long as there's proper compensation.
I don't mind spam and abuse flags because it just means Kabam employees must read my posts. As to the Lol flags I picture someone hitting that button and saying "that'll show him" to themselves over and over again. Sometimes in my mental picture they are drooling just a little.
Abuse of the flagging function can only backfire. Literacy and eloquence are the only effective tools on a public forum. Improper use of the flagging buttons is bringing a nerf pistol to a real gun fight and firing it randomly from behind some bushes. It is somewhat amusing and slightly annoying and completely ineffective at doing anything.
In the vast majority of MMO-like games I've played (in fact, as far as I can recall this is literally all of them), game balance changes rarely come with compensation. It is pretty clear that every player playing those games is supposed to understand that the game will change right under your feet, and that's part of what you sign up for when you play them. Some changes generate compensation when they are seen as divergent enough from the norm, and the ultimate judge of what is normal is always, always the developers.
And as far as "we had been begging for years"...
SOME people had been begging. And that energy would have been better spent learning to play around it. The MD change wasn't even necessary anymore after the intro of newer champs. The "mystic wars" problem was solved long, long ago.
I agree that things change and have no problem with the Mystic D nerf. The fact that it was overpowered is not irrelevant to the reasons for the nerf, however it is irrelevant to your point about people "taking advantage" and it's status as "broken". It was working as intended inasmuch as it was working the way it was advertised. There was no glitch that needed to be fixed. People spend money on the game and ranked some champs based on Mystic D specifically for AW defense. Kabam has every right to change Mystic D, but in a game where real money is in play they have some obligation to the customer when they exorcise this right. We can debate whether the mystic d nerf warrants compensation and rank downs. They said that they hadn't decided and would monitor the results in order to determine this. At the very least they acknowledged that it might require rank downs. OP asked for an update and some people have argued for rank downs on this thread. All reasonable. Maybe we get them and maybe we don't. Personally I don't care either way. But all this talk about "whining" "entitled" and "taking advantage" is stuff and nonsense. Cheers.