So, in hindsight, it’s at least arguable that I would have been better off just turning it all off for 3 months myself and waiting for a tempting comeback offer.
It is only worth doing, if it is worth doing.
Ahh, the faux wisdom of circular references and tautologies.
Dr. Zola
Actually, that is neither, nor am I its originator. It means, it is intellectually dishonest to suggest a course of action is the best course of action and not actually take that option if it exists. So it is only "arguable" that someone would be better off not playing for three months by someone willing to do it. Anyone arguing that position and not actually doing it would be arguing a hypocrisy.
Actually, it’s both. And evaluating decisionmaking ex post is pretty commonplace, even if it delves in the hypothetical.
But once again...you take us down the rabbit hole. I’m pretty sure our hairsplitting isn’t the point of this thread.
people who think these deals are so great. well simple. stop playing. then come back later and hope you have one.
really the offers are nothing compared to what can be earnt in game by actually playing the game. it is simple standard business.
You have different tiers of deals in all business. - Deals offered to entice new customers. normally in the form of very very good but limited time offers. - Deals offered to entice previous customers back. normally quite good but not as good as it is considered easier to get someone back. - Deals offered to current customer base. generally nothing too amazing. - Deals offered to customers who threaten to leave.
That last category however doesn't work in this kind of situation as people would simply try and abuse it and say they were leaving just to get a good offer.
i wanna go out on a limb here and say most people that are complaining are non-spenders or only very very occasional spenders anyway.
First off: I don’t care what comeback offers the game makes. That’s the team’s right. But I also don’t mind people complaining about it—that’s their right too. Sometimes it gets you something, sometimes it doesn’t.
I would offer this counterpoint to the whole issue: after starting to back off from MCoC before Black Friday, I decided to push again December of last year, partly because old mates encouraged me to participate in the holiday alliance events. I took the brakes off decent offer buying and expanded my playtime.
That continued through February. My result? Other than a slate of mediocre dupes (11 of past 15 with new champs like CWBP, 2099 and Gambit) and re-dupes of great champs I already had at L150+ (Blade and Medusa), the main thing I have to show is a new 5* She-Hulk (who has been saved by the beta) and a roster that still has only one 5* champ released in the past 13 months—despite my ramped-up spend and playtime.
A spate of Aegon FGMCs yesterday (from iTunes cards that were a gift from an old mate) netted me a 5* Juggs and Nebula re-dupe, which is great if you consider the possibility of getting zilch from them. But that isn’t lighting anyone’s roster on fire.
So, in hindsight, it’s at least arguable that I would have been better off just turning it all off for 3 months myself and waiting for a tempting comeback offer.
The point is this: in my opinion, progression, over my last 3 months, has been a myth. I wouldn’t be so fast to hang my hat on all the great things a player could get by being loyal versus tuning out for a while.
Dr. Zola
There's always the mediocre pull roadblock in progression. Or resource acquistion roadblock.
That's Kabams way (or any pay to progress faster game) of getting the impatient (rich or poor) to spend.
Careful...sounds like you are suggesting pulls are something other than pure randomness. That’s not how the pRNG works.
Dr. Zola
Not at all.
I'm saying any game that has an ingame pay aspect relies on their spenders wanting champs and items faster. They make money off of people's impatience and ego.
There will be streaks of not so good pulls, and streaks of decent pulls.
Also, as people get bigger rosters, what constitutes an amazing pull shrinks (as in, pulling a champ that they are willing to play with/rank up/use in a certain event) .
So that's what I mean by roadblock; a player feeling like their roster isn't progressing as fast as, or as desired as before.
So, in hindsight, it’s at least arguable that I would have been better off just turning it all off for 3 months myself and waiting for a tempting comeback offer.
It is only worth doing, if it is worth doing.
Ahh, the faux wisdom of circular references and tautologies.
Dr. Zola
Actually, that is neither, nor am I its originator. It means, it is intellectually dishonest to suggest a course of action is the best course of action and not actually take that option if it exists. So it is only "arguable" that someone would be better off not playing for three months by someone willing to do it. Anyone arguing that position and not actually doing it would be arguing a hypocrisy.
Actually, it’s both. And evaluating decisionmaking ex post is pretty commonplace, even if it delves in the hypothetical.
But once again...you take us down the rabbit hole. I’m pretty sure our hairsplitting isn’t the point of this thread.
Dr. Zola
I'm honestly not sure if you accuse me of incorrect things and then reverse and call it hair splitting because you don't understand what I'm saying, or because you're just deliberately being intellectually dishonest, but either way my points are my own, and insofar as pointing out that these offers aren't as overvalued as people are claiming because I don't see large numbers of people actually deliberately stopping play to get them, that's entirely relevant to the topic of the thread.
Also, by definition a circular reference cannot in general be a tautology. A circular reference is an argument that presumes its own conclusion as an axiom. A tautology is a statement or argument that must be true syntactically. This is one of those things Google gets horribly wrong, because a lot of people are just plain wrong. Circular arguments are logical fallacies. Tautologies are always logically true.
No big deal. The returning players are missing out on a lot of rewards compared to the grinders
So then what’s the incentive of playing the game if I can just chill and get rewards without doing anything?
At the end of the day, no one can answer that question for you. Setting aside the fact that these returning player rewards are not guaranteed, even if Kabam straight up told me I was guaranteed those returning player rewards if I simply stopped playing for three months then came back, I wouldn't. There's lots of reasons why, but my answers probably don't matter to you. You have to have your own answers to that question. If you don't, I think that points to a problem unrelated to these returning player rewards.
So, in hindsight, it’s at least arguable that I would have been better off just turning it all off for 3 months myself and waiting for a tempting comeback offer.
It is only worth doing, if it is worth doing.
Ahh, the faux wisdom of circular references and tautologies.
Dr. Zola
Actually, that is neither, nor am I its originator. It means, it is intellectually dishonest to suggest a course of action is the best course of action and not actually take that option if it exists. So it is only "arguable" that someone would be better off not playing for three months by someone willing to do it. Anyone arguing that position and not actually doing it would be arguing a hypocrisy.
Actually, it’s both. And evaluating decisionmaking ex post is pretty commonplace, even if it delves in the hypothetical.
But once again...you take us down the rabbit hole. I’m pretty sure our hairsplitting isn’t the point of this thread.
Dr. Zola
I'm honestly not sure if you accuse me of incorrect things and then reverse and call it hair splitting because you don't understand what I'm saying, or because you're just deliberately being intellectually dishonest, but either way my points are my own, and insofar as pointing out that these offers aren't as overvalued as people are claiming because I don't see large numbers of people actually deliberately stopping play to get them, that's entirely relevant to the topic of the thread.
Also, by definition a circular reference cannot in general be a tautology. A circular reference is an argument that presumes its own conclusion as an axiom. A tautology is a statement or argument that must be true syntactically. This is one of those things Google gets horribly wrong, because a lot of people are just plain wrong. Circular arguments are logical fallacies. Tautologies are always logically true.
And rabbit holes are rabbit holes.
My point was a simple one: several posts argued that players could do significantly better by playing versus not playing/potentially obtaining for cash one of the major prizes of LoL. Those arguments were based on their anecdotal experiences and opinions, just as my counterpost was.
I felt like it was relevant to point out that my single 3-month data point suggests it might be off-base to assume three months activity equates with significant progress. There’s really not much more to it than that.
Ultimately, I’m not quite sure why you felt compelled to weigh in the way you did. I’m still trying to dissect whether your comment was intended personally or was an attempt at humor.
Regardless, forums aren’t the place to argue what is/isn’t a circular reference or a tautology. I happen to think yours is plenty close to qualify as either or both, depending on how one interprets what you were trying to imply.
No big deal. The returning players are missing out on a lot of rewards compared to the grinders
So then what’s the incentive of playing the game if I can just chill and get rewards without doing anything?
Like... All the stuff you get for playing the game? And hopefully enjoyment out of playing the game by itself? I can't help myself but picture you looking so smug while typing that comment. Why don't you just try it? Leave the game for 3 month and try to catch up with your special offer.
Well you would be wrong then. It was more of a devil’s advocate question more than a serious suggestion/question.
All things considered, they're not the only company that tries to incentivize people to stay. It's more clever business than devaluing existing Users. I don't think it's that reprehensible to make an effort to keep people. Also, considering these things are offered to people not nearly as active, it's not fair to say they get more. If you add up the value of everything they're missing out on from the Login alone, I would wager the Lion's Share is on what they give to incentivize active Players.
people who think these deals are so great. well simple. stop playing. then come back later and hope you have one.
really the offers are nothing compared to what can be earnt in game by actually playing the game. it is simple standard business.
You have different tiers of deals in all business. - Deals offered to entice new customers. normally in the form of very very good but limited time offers. - Deals offered to entice previous customers back. normally quite good but not as good as it is considered easier to get someone back. - Deals offered to current customer base. generally nothing too amazing. - Deals offered to customers who threaten to leave.
That last category however doesn't work in this kind of situation as people would simply try and abuse it and say they were leaving just to get a good offer.
i wanna go out on a limb here and say most people that are complaining are non-spenders or only very very occasional spenders anyway.
First off: I don’t care what comeback offers the game makes. That’s the team’s right. But I also don’t mind people complaining about it—that’s their right too. Sometimes it gets you something, sometimes it doesn’t.
I would offer this counterpoint to the whole issue: after starting to back off from MCoC before Black Friday, I decided to push again December of last year, partly because old mates encouraged me to participate in the holiday alliance events. I took the brakes off decent offer buying and expanded my playtime.
That continued through February. My result? Other than a slate of mediocre dupes (11 of past 15 with new champs like CWBP, 2099 and Gambit) and re-dupes of great champs I already had at L150+ (Blade and Medusa), the main thing I have to show is a new 5* She-Hulk (who has been saved by the beta) and a roster that still has only one 5* champ released in the past 13 months—despite my ramped-up spend and playtime.
A spate of Aegon FGMCs yesterday (from iTunes cards that were a gift from an old mate) netted me a 5* Juggs and Nebula re-dupe, which is great if you consider the possibility of getting zilch from them. But that isn’t lighting anyone’s roster on fire.
So, in hindsight, it’s at least arguable that I would have been better off just turning it all off for 3 months myself and waiting for a tempting comeback offer.
The point is this: in my opinion, progression, over my last 3 months, has been a myth. I wouldn’t be so fast to hang my hat on all the great things a player could get by being loyal versus tuning out for a while.
Dr. Zola
There's always the mediocre pull roadblock in progression. Or resource acquistion roadblock.
That's Kabams way (or any pay to progress faster game) of getting the impatient (rich or poor) to spend.
Careful...sounds like you are suggesting pulls are something other than pure randomness. That’s not how the pRNG works.
Dr. Zola
Not at all.
I'm saying any game that has an ingame pay aspect relies on their spenders wanting champs and items faster. They make money off of people's impatience and ego.
There will be streaks of not so good pulls, and streaks of decent pulls.
Also, as people get bigger rosters, what constitutes an amazing pull shrinks (as in, pulling a champ that they are willing to play with/rank up/use in a certain event) .
So that's what I mean by roadblock; a player feeling like their roster isn't progressing as fast as, or as desired as before.
Then I would agree with you.
But I would offer this aside: in my opinion, a system that continues to produce champs that are (often) desirable and (often) an upgrade with each monthly update, yet relies on an engine that can also create droughts that are several months-long is more than just “roadblocked.”
You see? There is discontent among those of us who missed getting to swim in the shallow five star hero pond like some up above. It has enabled you up there to obtain 5s potentially worth ranking and obtain 6 stars. Meanwhile, just a very little distance below, we are stuck spinning our wheels opening mulitple worthless UNDUPABLE champs and champs only good for arena fodder. And offers for zero to max ranking kits won't help that! If i was to buy one i would have to sit on it (god knows how long?!!) Just like i have my ever growing stack of 5 star sig stones...
Zola has illustrated my point. 15 5stars and he still feels he isn't competative or really advancing Imagine the individuals without 11 champs to dupe? The wall i refer to was designed to refuce shards being farmed duping 5s a from a shallow pool...it slowed down but gave yhe top a head start and stalled the rest of us dead in our tracks. And really i have been very successful aquiring 5 star crystal shards from duped 4s...that is until we suddenly started getting shard offers...makes one scratch thier head...
Zola has an endgame account.
He pulled Medusa and blade out of those 15.
Two top 10 champs in 15 pulls out of like 128 champs.
Sign me up.
Not to be a jerk but you already said you aren't uncollected.
You will earn 5 stars faster and faster.
They have been handing them out like candy since December.
Zola has illustrated my point. 15 5stars and he still feels he isn't competative or really advancing Imagine the individuals without 11 champs to dupe? The wall i refer to was designed to refuce shards being farmed duping 5s a from a shallow pool...it slowed down but gave yhe top a head start and stalled the rest of us dead in our tracks. And really i have been very successful aquiring 5 star crystal shards from duped 4s...that is until we suddenly started getting shard offers...makes one scratch thier head...
Zola has an endgame account.
He pulled Medusa and blade out of those 15.
Two top 10 champs in 15 pulls out of like 128 champs.
Sign me up.
Not to be a jerk but you already said you aren't uncollected.
You will earn 5 stars faster and faster.
They have been handing them out like candy since December.
Actually, that’s over ~30 pulls, but your point is a solid one. Those are great champs, especially if you don’t have them in the first place or haven’t ever duped them. The only wrinkle for me was that I had already pulled them a few times. So progression for me as a result was de minimis.
And while my account may be endgame, I am certainly not. I become more and more a hack at MCoC each day that passes.
True that! and i don't understand why you guys insist on making me feel like Mel Gibson in "payback." Yes they have been giving them away...to players who don't need them and can't use them...why should a level 10 summoner have 5 stars? I have not asked or suggested we be "given" anything but a chance to realize more out of grinding. I currently have what i need to make it to uncollected. I have done more with far less than any of you! 4 paths in with a mere 5 rank 5 4s. I have an overall rating of 620k and am only missing 22 4s available in or soon to be available in crystals. I can make the breakthrough to endless wins in any arena except (probably don't really know haven't tried) with 5 r5 4s and 4 r2 5s....soooo yeah...not uncollected because i don't go into battle unless i can win without using unit purchased revives and rsstores...so far...i never have used units during quests...planning is is what i do and how i play the game...i have 8 paths to uncollected and the team to take me there now...but what after???
I was slow and meticulous about who i chose to rank to 5 and only regret one of them. They have taken me far! Now it is time for an upgrade and after that it will require upgrades to get to the 100 percent...i do not want to play two years to get "the team" needed to break through. So reducing the number of shards would help out a good number of players who are at the same tipping point...some obviously have chosen to walk even though they are being given more 5 star crystals shards...just takes too many of them! Take em off the calendar and reduce the number to 6k that would be an improvement and move the featured to 10k (which of you wouldn't like that???)
There is a simple solution to players leaving. Lower the number of shards it takes to build a 5 star crystal! They are full of garbage and even the garbage is undupable. It is the seriously crappy drops that wear out players and make them leave. I have had five 3s and one 4 out of the phc in 6 weeks. As for the 5s i have opened...not one i would waste t4c on...so that's why they are leaving. Give them more chances to dupe and they will stick around in spite of the dregs being the majority of what they will hit. Selling the stuff is just part of the segue into pay to win...so adjust the drop rates in the phc and lower the shards for fives and fewer people will bail!
its all on the mindset of the player. shards are getting more and more common.
i know i am earning many 5* every month. very very quickly. if i was earning them any quicker i would be getting them faster than wat i could do with them. not all can be god tier but i dont have some unrealistic expectation that i will get amazing champs in every crystal. i know there is 140 champs. i know i am really chasing bout 6 of those. i know i will almost certainly not get wat i want. it is wat it is.
also IMO every 5* will get r3. they are all worth it for arena. some will sit at r2 for ages cus i prioritize other rank ups but all will make it to r3.
if 5* were given out like candy i suggest more peeps would quit then they do now as it ruins something, there is no chase, there would be no great feeling when you do get the good luck. part of wat makes this game great is the gambling aspect. people cant admit it but its true. yes somethings could be done to help peeps get wat they want but for the most part it works the way it does and is so successful for kabam cus it is wat people actually want.
when you sit back and realise that there is 140 champs, you want only a select few that you may take along time to get you will stop getting dissapointed by bad pulls cus you wont expect more.
LOWER YOUR EXPECTATIONS TO A LEVEL THAT IS ACTUALLY REASONABLY ATTAINABLE.
There is a simple solution to players leaving. Lower the number of shards it takes to build a 5 star crystal! They are full of garbage and even the garbage is undupable. It is the seriously crappy drops that wear out players and make them leave. I have had five 3s and one 4 out of the phc in 6 weeks. As for the 5s i have opened...not one i would waste t4c on...so that's why they are leaving. Give them more chances to dupe and they will stick around in spite of the dregs being the majority of what they will hit. Selling the stuff is just part of the segue into pay to win...so adjust the drop rates in the phc and lower the shards for fives and fewer people will bail!
Not a chance they will lower the number of shards needed to open a 5* crystal. I'm against the idea as well.
The amount of shards available in the game has been increasing for the past year and to be frank, it's peoples' expectation that they will get a god tier every single time they open a 5* that makes their disappointment unbearable. It's all on them. People who can't get past this will leave sooner or later.
What about someone who hasn’t gotten a rankable champ in 6 months? Don’t care about god tier but haven’t even been getting things like Hawkeye, Elektra, or Psylocke. I’m having to rank champs I’ll never use like Dorm, or Loki because I have too much cat buildup.
Cats from where? If you’re opening cat crystals all the time and wanting to selectively rank champs up, you’re definitely gonna face this issue.
Well personally here is my perspective of things but I don’t know if I understand the situation fully but here is the thing with some of these arguments against this post some people are saying that some people received these offers and special rewards because they happened to be whales but if that is the case why not not send these to the whales who still actively play to increase sales even more rather than some whale who rarely plays. Like let’s say Kabam sends these rewards to a whale who doesn’t play anymore there is a pretty good chance they won’t even check the message as they may be done with the game while on the other hand Kabam can give these offers to whales who do actively play this game or even give it to everyone for a insanely high price if they chose so. Another thing is that why should someone who rarely plays the game get these insane gifts while us active players who constantly play through all these network problems and crashing without any compensation like it doesn’t even need to be a good compensation just a kind of just so Kabam lets us know that they are hearing the communities complaints
I was slow and meticulous about who i chose to rank to 5 and only regret one of them. They have taken me far! Now it is time for an upgrade and after that it will require upgrades to get to the 100 percent...i do not want to play two years to get "the team" needed to break through. So reducing the number of shards would help out a good number of players who are at the same tipping point...some obviously have chosen to walk even though they are being given more 5 star crystals shards...just takes too many of them! Take em off the calendar and reduce the number to 6k that would be an improvement and move the featured to 10k (which of you wouldn't like that???)
So let me get this straight,
- You KNOW that there is a higher difficulty that rewards more 5* shards than you are currently receiving.
- But you don’t wanna spend anything to get there quicker.
- So you’re asking Kabam to make it quicker for you to achieve what you want to achieve by lowering the shards requirement.
You see? There is discontent among those of us who missed getting to swim in the shallow five star hero pond like some up above. It has enabled you up there to obtain 5s potentially worth ranking and obtain 6 stars. Meanwhile, just a very little distance below, we are stuck spinning our wheels opening mulitple worthless UNDUPABLE champs and champs only good for arena fodder. And offers for zero to max ranking kits won't help that! If i was to buy one i would have to sit on it (god knows how long?!!) Just like i have my ever growing stack of 5 star sig stones...
When the pool was very shallow like you say there was not great champs like now. People were excited to get juggernauts or majik. The great champs started with stark spider and blades release
Comments
But once again...you take us down the rabbit hole. I’m pretty sure our hairsplitting isn’t the point of this thread.
Dr. Zola
I'm saying any game that has an ingame pay aspect relies on their spenders wanting champs and items faster. They make money off of people's impatience and ego.
There will be streaks of not so good pulls, and streaks of decent pulls.
Also, as people get bigger rosters, what constitutes an amazing pull shrinks (as in, pulling a champ that they are willing to play with/rank up/use in a certain event) .
So that's what I mean by roadblock; a player feeling like their roster isn't progressing as fast as, or as desired as before.
Also, by definition a circular reference cannot in general be a tautology. A circular reference is an argument that presumes its own conclusion as an axiom. A tautology is a statement or argument that must be true syntactically. This is one of those things Google gets horribly wrong, because a lot of people are just plain wrong. Circular arguments are logical fallacies. Tautologies are always logically true.
My point was a simple one: several posts argued that players could do significantly better by playing versus not playing/potentially obtaining for cash one of the major prizes of LoL. Those arguments were based on their anecdotal experiences and opinions, just as my counterpost was.
I felt like it was relevant to point out that my single 3-month data point suggests it might be off-base to assume three months activity equates with significant progress. There’s really not much more to it than that.
Ultimately, I’m not quite sure why you felt compelled to weigh in the way you did. I’m still trying to dissect whether your comment was intended personally or was an attempt at humor.
Regardless, forums aren’t the place to argue what is/isn’t a circular reference or a tautology. I happen to think yours is plenty close to qualify as either or both, depending on how one interprets what you were trying to imply.
Dr. Zola
Also, considering these things are offered to people not nearly as active, it's not fair to say they get more. If you add up the value of everything they're missing out on from the Login alone, I would wager the Lion's Share is on what they give to incentivize active Players.
But I would offer this aside: in my opinion, a system that continues to produce champs that are (often) desirable and (often) an upgrade with each monthly update, yet relies on an engine that can also create droughts that are several months-long is more than just “roadblocked.”
Dr. Zola
He pulled Medusa and blade out of those 15.
Two top 10 champs in 15 pulls out of like 128 champs.
Sign me up.
Not to be a jerk but you already said you aren't uncollected.
You will earn 5 stars faster and faster.
They have been handing them out like candy since December.
And while my account may be endgame, I am certainly not. I become more and more a hack at MCoC each day that passes.
Dr. Zola
shards are getting more and more common.
i know i am earning many 5* every month.
very very quickly.
if i was earning them any quicker i would be getting them faster than wat i could do with them.
not all can be god tier but i dont have some unrealistic expectation that i will get amazing champs in every crystal.
i know there is 140 champs.
i know i am really chasing bout 6 of those.
i know i will almost certainly not get wat i want.
it is wat it is.
also IMO every 5* will get r3.
they are all worth it for arena.
some will sit at r2 for ages cus i prioritize other rank ups but all will make it to r3.
if 5* were given out like candy i suggest more peeps would quit then they do now as it ruins something, there is no chase, there would be no great feeling when you do get the good luck.
part of wat makes this game great is the gambling aspect.
people cant admit it but its true.
yes somethings could be done to help peeps get wat they want but for the most part it works the way it does and is so successful for kabam cus it is wat people actually want.
when you sit back and realise that there is 140 champs, you want only a select few that you may take along time to get you will stop getting dissapointed by bad pulls cus you wont expect more.
LOWER YOUR EXPECTATIONS TO A LEVEL THAT IS ACTUALLY REASONABLY ATTAINABLE.
Zing!
Had to be done. LOL.
Seriously though, the lure has to be strong to bring back someone that’s quit the game. They can’t get them playing again with some crappy PHCs.
- You KNOW that there is a higher difficulty that rewards more 5* shards than you are currently receiving.
- But you don’t wanna spend anything to get there quicker.
- So you’re asking Kabam to make it quicker for you to achieve what you want to achieve by lowering the shards requirement.
Fabulous. Absolutely fabulous.