Witness the Great Revival! Act 6 Chapter 1 - Coming March 13th



  • GUARD1ANGUARD1AN Posts: 103
    Don't forget that Act 6 is permanent content, just like Ultron's Variant. If this were limited content like the Maze or a Champion Clash, that would be another issue. And before you keep repeating that it will stop accounts at 100% Act 5 because they can't get the 5* RNG, there's really only 1 champion in each class that it useless at that level of gameplay. Colossus, Kamala Khan, Iron Patriot, Karnak, Joe Fixit, and Diablo. Just because the rest don't let you rinse through the content like Corvus and Stark-E, it can still be done. Who you rank up is your decision. If you've duped Howard three times, take him to r4 or r5. So you can't use the synergies that you always use in EQ, so what? And look at WhaleMilka27. On a F2P account, Seatin got to where he was pulling 5 and 6*s in less than a year. As the rednecks say, 'nuff said.
  • Doomsfist79Doomsfist79 Posts: 922 ★★★
    Antgeo1 said:

    Just imagine if they set the gates up differently, as in only Rank 2 6*s are allowed...

    Considering how rare those are.. they simply wouldn't have a product anymore.. all the top end people would be the ones QQ and Cowhale30 would be the one saying it's fine as it doesn't affect him..
  • CometEarthCometEarth Posts: 112
    edited March 2019
  • CeresCPHCeresCPH Posts: 69
    Still no good explanation on why 4*s are excluded. Summoners like me with roughly around 600k hero rating still uses 4*s to come by some nodes and for synergy reasons.

    The gate to enter act 6 should only bg completion of act 5. No need to set up extra gates as this point! Especially not to spare us from frustration (like previous mentioned). That is something that should be a summoners own decision. Try act 6 with whatever roster is chosen!

    Putting 4*s in the grave is like making a 12.0 nerf! Post 12.0 nerf you shared the idea of listening more to your customers. Has this been discussed with any customers segment?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 31,891 ★★★★★
    edited March 2019
    Bidzy7 said:

    Bidzy7 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Bidzy7 said:

    In all honesty i cant think of any other game that prevents progress based on rarity that can't be farmed.

    I can think of a game that is accused of this all the time. This one. And every time it happens, the statement is that, yes, this has happened in the past before, but this time its different. This is just another time when it is different.

    And in this case, I don't see it as preventing progress based on rarity that can't be farmed. People keep saying its all about luck, but I don't see this as having anything to do with luck. To assemble a small perfect team takes enormous luck, and since I don't have that kind of luck I assume that's impossible and forget about it immediately. Instead, my strategy is to assemble the widest, most diverse roster possible by trying to generate as many crystal openings as possible, and focusing those in directions I believe are statistically most likely to generate wide rosters. For example, I recently did an experiment of opening sixteen featured crystals in a row. I did that in part because at the time I didn't have almost any of the champs in the featured crystal. I don't think in terms of the one special lucky pull, so I don't value the crystal in terms of "god tier champs." I viewed it in terms of ability to generate new pulls, and decided to take a shot at it accordingly. I'm now pulling basics because I've shifted my strategy: I'm now perfectly fine with duplicating champs, because dups generate 6* shards and I'm trying to build up my 6* roster as quickly as is possible for my current playstyle.

    None of these things is luck, none of these things relies on luck, and no matter how bad my luck is, anything within the reasonable realm of possibility wouldn't invalidate any of my gameplay strategies. Luck is great, but I don't need luck, and don't rely on luck. I rely on long term averages and efficiency.

    Here's what luck means to me. Every 5* pull is either a new champ or a dup. All my new champs are great for me, because it means I can grind more or more efficiently in the arena. All my dups are great for me, because it means I get closer to my next 6* champ. If you locked all my 5* crystal openings to be Hulkbuster from now to the end of time, that would be horrible luck, and yet it would also mean every pull generated 6* shards, and then Hulkbuster would get maxed out and then every pull would generate a max signature crystal. I can live with that: I'd pour signature stones into Hulkbuster if I knew this would happen, to speed it along. Luck doesn't matter to me in the long run, because my playstyle insulates me from the worst downsides of random chance.

    Maybe this is less about strategy and more about perspective. I choose to have a useful perspective.
    @DNA3000 well i already know this game hence why i said any other game :tongue:

    I think you have misinterpreted my post. I'm not talking about having the so called "god tier" champions to be able to do the content. I am talking about specific champion requirements to pass certain content. I would have to disagree that its less about strategy.

    It sounds like you have a big roster and therefore are not seeing the potential issue players will face when trying to do act 6 with this limitation.
    I will give you an example, this months monthly quest in the last quest on uncollected you have an Bio-shock/Nano Abomination. So here you need to bring a champion which is both bleed and poison immune but with the added nano node they also can't be a robot or will take shock damage instead of the poison you get for hitting him. Lets say this is limited to 5 and 6*. So what are my options ? Iceman ofc most obvious, we also have Dormammu and Emma Frost. Omega red also i guess ghost could be used if you play around using the phasing to purify. so that is a possible 5 champions out of 114 in the 5* pool atm. I have an iceman so that is what i will use to get past him. However like i said in my last post, I only pulled him recently after two years of him being introduced. So if there is similar fights in act 6 that have such a specific mechanic that to effectively get past it I would need certain champs how does that not make it luck based ?

    also it seems like you are in a position to be able to grind out arena (5*) on top of completing all the content on a consistent basis. How long did it take to save up for 16 featured crystals ?
    I would say for me personally on average i can get 20,000 5* shards a month. In Order to open 16 featured's i would have to save for 12 months.
    I have 100% Act 5 and even done initial completion of variant. I would say i still use 4* to tackle certain challenges where my 5* roster is lacking. I have 48 5* champions and 4 6* champions, yet still have gaps in my roster to handle niche scenarios.
    so i would say for the majority of players who work their way through act 5 100% they will not be in a position at the end of that to have such large rosters that they will never need their 4* to overcome very specific nodes and match ups. Which means they will be waiting to pull a champion that can help them which is entirely based on luck.
    With 48 5* Champs and 4 6* Champs, there is most definitely something you can use in Act 6. People need to move past the mindset that there are a few ideal Champs that can be used, and the rest are filler. Are there some that won't be much use? Sure. That doesn't mean that everything outside of the norm is no good.
    you have literally ignored most of what i said and attached yourself to the numbers of my roster.

    You think me to be an idiot who has managed to clear act 5 and variant and not understand how to use my roster?

    i just told you that there is gaps in my pulls at 5* that are filled by 4* and the current state of the game it's not easy to fill those gaps.

    Act 6 will be the most challenging content and with that certain paths/match ups etc require specific champions to deal with, without just throwing units/potions/revives at it all. if you don't have a champ to deal with it no amount of skill will help you. example i gave above with a bio-hazard nano-tech abomination. If i don't have Iceman, Dormammu, Emma Frost, Omega Red, Ghost. My strategy would have to be go in do as much damage pray for no bleeds and poison and if i die revive and heal up and repeat. Effectively the strategy is spend/use resources to get past content.

    I didn't think of you as an idiot at all. What I do think is people are overreacting. I focused on your Roster to highlight the fact that you'll be able to do it.
    Yes, it's going to be the most difficult Storymode content yet. That's the point. It's the equivalent of Act 5 being released and people not having 3*s to depend on. However, when Act 5 was released, we didn't have the powerful Champs and combinations to cut through content. It wasn't necessary to create such a roadblock at that time.
    This is no different than any other piece of content that is released that people will have to work towards. It's almost seen as a personal offense if people don't have everything they need when something comes out, to slay it without investing too much effort. We won't always have what we need, and sometimes we might have what we need to do it, we just won't have the best option. It's not the responsibility of the game to make sure we have the best solution. Not when solutions are earned through game play.
    It's the same even now for people who are still trying to find the best 4*s to get through content. They do the best they can with what they have. It's not like people get to a point where they shouldn't have to struggle. Not unless they're on the upper crust and literally have EVERYTHING. In which case, you wouldn't see them complaining much.
    So, yes. I focused on your Roster to point out the fact that you'll have what you need to get through it. I didn't focus on what you won't be able to use because that is the whole point of the challenge level.
  • TaZ_4178TaZ_4178 Posts: 506 ★★

    Without putting my neck on the chopping block, so-to-speak, I could venture some guesses as to why it's restricted. Of course, they would have to speak fot themsleves, but here goes.
    One idea that comes to mind is perhaps there are Champs in the 4* Roster that would make it easier than the intended difficulty level. Highly unlikely, but an idea.
    Another thought could be demographics. When all else fails, look to the Rewards. It's possible they want to keep access to the Title and increased Rewards open to those who have healthy 5* Rosters only, since it could offset the progression level of those too much lower. It's another idea.
    It could be because they're focusing on refining the content with 5*s and 6*s only, so they want to isolate the data.
    Finally, it could just be that they're mean. (Ok, so I threw that in for comedic relief.)
    Again, it's hard to say, but I still stand my my original statement. By the time people get to Act 6, they should have a number of 5*s to play with.

    Do me a favor let kabam know The Scourge requires a formal sitdown with their stellar development team when you get a chance lmao and the kabam just being mean... change that to greedy and no comic relief and we're golden then!
  • TaZ_4178TaZ_4178 Posts: 506 ★★

    I find that to be a misnomer. Buying Champs is only a small way to acquire them. The majority comes from game play. If you're buying all your Champs to get through all content, that road is expensive before you even get to Act 6.

    Also you must not be familiar with arena mercs and the oh so glorious daily deals insert sarcasm and all the gmcs coming back right before act 6... Bro open your eyes this is purely to increase sales of all of these items in game... whale milking 101
  • Doomsfist79Doomsfist79 Posts: 922 ★★★
    Gonna try to make this as simple as possible for people to understand..

    If people continue to spend money.. Kabam will continue to do whatever they want.. People STOP spending money.. kabam will be forced to change decisions.. that's how things changed in 12.0.. simple as that..

    You can have 1000 pages of complaints.. but money being spent.. nothing changes.. 1 single comment in complaint.. but no more spending.. things will change.. once people understand this.. then they can make kabam change their mind on this.. or any other decision the community doesn't like.

    Just for a reference.. people were pissed about Blizzard releasing the next version of Diablo on mobile only.. Activision/Blizzard stock has been tanking since.. Blizzard is now working on a PC version of Diablo..
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 31,891 ★★★★★
    TaZ_4178 said:

    I find that to be a misnomer. Buying Champs is only a small way to acquire them. The majority comes from game play. If you're buying all your Champs to get through all content, that road is expensive before you even get to Act 6.

    Also you must not be familiar with arena mercs and the oh so glorious daily deals insert sarcasm and all the gmcs coming back right before act 6... Bro open your eyes this is purely to increase sales of all of these items in game... whale milking 101
    No, it's not. No matter how many times people say it's just for money, that's not going to make it the case.
    If you really wanted the reason, the long and short of it is really quite simple. To make it harder to do.
  • CFreeCFree Posts: 491 ★★
    TaZ_4178 said:

    Ace_03 said:

    You can’t control what champions you get.

    You can’t control what rank up materials you get.

    The 2 things you can control are skill and strategizing.

    What is the strategy for pure degen? Or starburst? Specific champions. (Or units/real money of course)

    If you don’t have them at the highest rarity, you can still push through with patience and skill. I.E Hulk (Ragnarok) during Variant quest.

    Now they also want to control who you use, what class, what rarity and the #tag of champion.

    Everything is random in this game, now the few things you can control are at the companies disposition. The usual suspects will write the following:

    -No one made you rank 4*’s

    -Permanent content, come back later

    -Their game, not yours

    -Anything that OBLIGATES the players to adapt is good

    So, hard enemies, with hard nodes and long grueling quests is not enough. All the hours, strategizing, grinding and sacrifice we did to get top champs is rendered null because well:

    “You rely on the same synergies and champs to do everything, do it with someone else or don’t do it, nobody cares about your plight, stop complaining”.

    So, getting the champ you want is a pain, awakening him/her is even worse, getting the sig stones and the materials...

    Yet because this is THEIR game and THEIR rules, then that means they can change the landscape of everything whenever they want, regardless of everything you grind for and sacrifice.

    I respectfully disagree that this is a non-issue. It’s uncreative, unimaginative, it shows a tawdry business model and despite their sound “logic”, it makes their's and some content creators arguments to support this seem meretricious.

    Couldn't have said it any better props to you!
    I didn’t agree with all of it but lovely word choice.
  • TaZ_4178TaZ_4178 Posts: 506 ★★

    axelelf_1 said:

    I didn’t see a single good reason that justifies banning 4*s. It was all the expected rhetoric that boils down to.....money.

    Apparently you didn't read the explanation then. Nothing mentioned had to do with money at all. It was a thorough explanation as to why they felt it was best to gate progress at that stage. It may not be what people want, but you can't say the explanation wasn't sufficient.
    If you can't see where it has to do with money you can't comprehend the things you read.

    Their entire 'explanation' about previous gating was doing so based on summoner level, or PI or owning a specific character.... not about limiting a roster based on their star level. I say this as someone who has a pretty extensive five star library. It's a bogus call.

    Still wondering where the money explanation comes into it? Fine, I'll help you out.... it was somewhere around "...it's a protective measure..." Protective for whom exactly? Us? No. Obviously not. They're sick and tired of us beating their content with four star characters so they push this to prevent exactly that. To sell more crystals hoping people will buy them and expand their five star roster to complete this content. Then they spit in our faces and provide us with a crystal that gives us useless characters and you ask for more.

    I'm so glad that heroes were just released with amazing Wolverine synergies. To bad they're utterly useless now.
    No. It has nothing to do with money at all. That's a bitter response that's been around longer than I have, and it comes out whenever people don't like a decision they make. "Y'all are milking the whales. Money grubbing. Greedy.". All that translates to is, "We don't like what you're doing, so we're going to call you out.".
    Fortunately, I don't work for them, so I can put it more abruptly.
    They don't want people using 4*s. That's about as plain as it gets.
    If you read the explanation, there were a few reasons given. One of which was the quality of the experience. Meaning they don't want people having a bad experience. The other has to do with the target demographic. This content is aimed at people who have enough 5*s to do it, and enough Ranking to pull it off. Between Level 60 and Act 6 there are a whole range of different growth points, and for all intents and purposes, this is intended for a specific group of that range. Now, you could conjecture all types of reasons for that surrounding the dependency on Synergies, or trying to make money, but the bottom line is, it's not for people with a handful of 4*s and some OP Synergies.
    Now, as for why they feel comfortable doing it, they have explained that themselves, outlined how they have used similar gates in the past, and also went on to explain it's permanent, and there is ample time to prepare for it.
    The bottom line is, it's not for everyone. Although it IS for anyone who has done Act 5, and has 5*s, which let's be real here, is everyone who has done Act 5. You just won't be able to depend on 4*s, whether for use or Synergies. That's entirely possible to get around.
    It has nothing to do with money, and everything to do with the intended experience and level of challenge.
    This isn’t a non-profit company. Of course this move was made with financial consideration.
    So because it's a company that makes money, it's ONLY deciding factor in any decision is money? That's an incredibly jaded way of looking at things.
    No, the bottom line with this decision is not about money. If that was the case, they'd open it to 4*s and collect the bucks from Pots and Revs bought.
    Yes... is the answer for looking for... bottom line bottom whales bottom credit card bottom pockets lol
  • TaZ_4178TaZ_4178 Posts: 506 ★★
    MaatMan said:

    even if u wanna call it a money grab.
    they cant grab my money cus i aint lettin it go.

    you dont give money,
    they dont get money.

    a money making scheme only works if people are stupid enough to fall for it.

    I agree with you Matt unfortunately kabam is fully aware of this... this the reason we see all these fgmcs coming back on a whim and all these crazy cash offers currently... ohhh the whales shall be milked at least 5x as much as their use to lmao
  • TaZ_4178TaZ_4178 Posts: 506 ★★
    Just want to give a hint to anyone that hates this decision as i do as well...i would personally not ever rank up any 4* to 550 again... there's literally no point I'm only maybe doing 440 just for arena... helps with the infinite streak but other than that yeah kabam def killed off 4*s with this...i expect all the arenas 4*and lower to drop substantially and for the whales to be thoroughly milked lol damn shame really all jokes aside!
  • TaZ_4178TaZ_4178 Posts: 506 ★★

    I'm thinking on leaving Mcoc... This new 4* restriction went beyond what I could tolerate.
    I'm Brazilian and the prices of the offers are too expensive for most of people in Brazil because of the exchange rate. At this moment, I can't afford buying a 5* roster to keep progressing in the game. This doesn't mean I don't spend in the game, I do. I spend a good amount of money to buy units, and offers in general, but when I see offers around 39.90 US dollars, it becomes too expensive for just a game, once it is about R$ 160.00 (Reais, BRL) and it is around the 1/6 of the minimum wage in Brazil.
    The recent offers of 4* shards and crystals kept the same price as before. Why would I pay for something I won’t be able to use anymore?

    I think Kabam took the wrong direction with this decision and I hope they revert it. Otherwise they will be jeopardizing their customer base.

    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra

    Time traveler what's up! Good ol tazzy here on the forums and agreeing with you 100% 😁
  • TaZ_4178TaZ_4178 Posts: 506 ★★

    So, as I'm sure everywhere is aware by now 4* will be restricted in act 6. Well I'm just here to say how incredibly happy I am to hear that news. After all, 6* champions are significantly stronger than 4*, so thank you Kabam for thinking of the community first with this change. I can't wait to tear through Act 6 with my completely stacked choice of 6* characters!!!

    Sarcasm mates.

    Id trade you a karnac or my recent 5th 6* YJ in a heartbeat for that Luke cage lol seriously but i agree with you for sure the 4*restriction is absolutely horrendous
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 8,329 ★★★★★

    Honestly I dont care that it is the first part of act 6... It is harder than the last part of act 5 so the rewards should be at least as good. What is a 5 star rank 2 to 3 going to do... it brings the champion up to the strength of a 4 star which is not even allowed to be used so obviously that strength isnt enough... I believe there needs to be a higher consideration when it come to deciding on rewards... I'm not even going to touch the requirement issue again...

    The rewards for the first part of act 6 should be at least as good as the final rewards for act 5? That's not how it's ever worked in the game. Also the fact that it's harder isn't relevant. A lot of time has passed. No one had a 5/65 when they did the last chapter of act 5 (at least when it came out).
  • BowTieJohnBowTieJohn Posts: 2,205 ★★★★

    Additionally, we are taking a look at Arenas to see if we can make 5-Star Champions more accessible.

    5★ Basic Arena confirmed?
    Hope so ;)
  • TaZ_4178TaZ_4178 Posts: 506 ★★
    DrZola said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DrZola said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Dshu said:

    That is the problem nobody understands their rational. We are not asking for an incomprehensible answer we want to understand why they choose to make this decision

    It makes perfect sense to me, and to be blunt I don't think most of the people claiming to not understand it actually don't understand it. They just don't agree with it, and can't wrap their minds around the fact that some people do things for reasons they don't agree with, so they must be lying or obfuscating when they express those reasons.

    Game development is always trying to implement compromises among a large number of often opposing priorities and criteria. Almost everything you do as a game developer has at least one really good reason to *not* do it, but you're doing it because there are more reasons to do it than not. To try to accommodate all of those differing priorities you often end up with something that doesn't absolutely honor one priority to the exclusion of all others, which can be used against you when players claim that what you did obviously doesn't "correctly" implement any clear priority.

    This game has always had progression gates. A progression gate segregates players into those on one side of the gate and those on the other side of the gate. Whenever you implement a gate, some players will complain when they find themselves on the wrong side of the gate. But that's working as intended: that's the purpose of the gate. If everyone who wanted to be past the gate was past the gate, the gate's worthless.

    The gates in the game have generally, but not completely, been implemented from the bottom up, because the nature of the game is that it has grown upward in complexity and difficulty (it can't really be otherwise). The earliest gates could use simple metrics that existed in the game, for example level gates. But as the game continued to grow upward, those metrics simply "ran out" and they had to resort to other progression metrics to continue to gate the game. Uncollected, for example, is a novel (in this game) gate: it isn't just a prerequisite to get to the next piece of content, it unlocks a lot of other development opportunities in the form of enhanced crystals and higher reward monthly content. Importantly, this kind of gate didn't exist until it did: it set the precedent that the devs were willing to add new kinds of gates to the game.

    Level is an obvious metric that measures progress. Which content you complete is another one. But another measure of progress that has always existed in the game is roster strength. It factors into prestige which influences AQ rewards (and at one time prestige was *the* metric for progress for level-capped players). It has in the past been the metric used to calibrate things like compensation packages based on progress. It is a highly imperfect metric of progress, but it was *used* in the game.

    The devs wanted a new progress gate leading into Act 6 and the ones that had been used previously were seen as inadequate. They didn't want it to be a trivial prerequisite like do 5.1 and you get to do 5.2. Prerequisites aren't progress gates, because there's no well-defined barrier to overcome beyond just keep playing (players can argue that this should be sufficient, which is tantamount to saying no progress gates should exist at all, but that's a separate complicated argument).

    The obvious option is roste

    TaZ_4178 said:

    I find that to be a misnomer. Buying Champs is only a small way to acquire them. The majority comes from game play. If you're buying all your Champs to get through all content, that road is expensive before you even get to Act 6.

    Also you must not be familiar with arena mercs and the oh so glorious daily deals insert sarcasm and all the gmcs coming back right before act 6... Bro open your eyes this is purely to increase sales of all of these items in game... whale milking 101
    No, it's not. No matter how many times people say it's just for money, that's not going to make it the case.
    If you really wanted the reason, the long and short of it is really quite simple. To make it harder to do.
    You keep thinking that... I've been around in mcoc waaaayyy to long to know the difference for entitled to your opinion though & good luck getting 100%in act 5
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