Witness the Great Revival! Act 6 Chapter 1 - Coming March 13th

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  • BowTieJohnBowTieJohn Posts: 727 ★★

    Additionally, we are taking a look at Arenas to see if we can make 5-Star Champions more accessible.

    5★ Basic Arena confirmed?
    Hope so ;)
  • TaZ_4178TaZ_4178 Posts: 285
    DrZola said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DrZola said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Dshu said:

    That is the problem nobody understands their rational. We are not asking for an incomprehensible answer we want to understand why they choose to make this decision

    It makes perfect sense to me, and to be blunt I don't think most of the people claiming to not understand it actually don't understand it. They just don't agree with it, and can't wrap their minds around the fact that some people do things for reasons they don't agree with, so they must be lying or obfuscating when they express those reasons.

    Game development is always trying to implement compromises among a large number of often opposing priorities and criteria. Almost everything you do as a game developer has at least one really good reason to *not* do it, but you're doing it because there are more reasons to do it than not. To try to accommodate all of those differing priorities you often end up with something that doesn't absolutely honor one priority to the exclusion of all others, which can be used against you when players claim that what you did obviously doesn't "correctly" implement any clear priority.

    This game has always had progression gates. A progression gate segregates players into those on one side of the gate and those on the other side of the gate. Whenever you implement a gate, some players will complain when they find themselves on the wrong side of the gate. But that's working as intended: that's the purpose of the gate. If everyone who wanted to be past the gate was past the gate, the gate's worthless.

    The gates in the game have generally, but not completely, been implemented from the bottom up, because the nature of the game is that it has grown upward in complexity and difficulty (it can't really be otherwise). The earliest gates could use simple metrics that existed in the game, for example level gates. But as the game continued to grow upward, those metrics simply "ran out" and they had to resort to other progression metrics to continue to gate the game. Uncollected, for example, is a novel (in this game) gate: it isn't just a prerequisite to get to the next piece of content, it unlocks a lot of other development opportunities in the form of enhanced crystals and higher reward monthly content. Importantly, this kind of gate didn't exist until it did: it set the precedent that the devs were willing to add new kinds of gates to the game.

    Level is an obvious metric that measures progress. Which content you complete is another one. But another measure of progress that has always existed in the game is roster strength. It factors into prestige which influences AQ rewards (and at one time prestige was *the* metric for progress for level-capped players). It has in the past been the metric used to calibrate things like compensation packages based on progress. It is a highly imperfect metric of progress, but it was *used* in the game.

    The devs wanted a new progress gate leading into Act 6 and the ones that had been used previously were seen as inadequate. They didn't want it to be a trivial prerequisite like do 5.1 and you get to do 5.2. Prerequisites aren't progress gates, because there's no well-defined barrier to overcome beyond just keep playing (players can argue that this should be sufficient, which is tantamount to saying no progress gates should exist at all, but that's a separate complicated argument).

    The obvious option is roste

    TaZ_4178 said:

    I find that to be a misnomer. Buying Champs is only a small way to acquire them. The majority comes from game play. If you're buying all your Champs to get through all content, that road is expensive before you even get to Act 6.

    Also you must not be familiar with arena mercs and the oh so glorious daily deals insert sarcasm and all the gmcs coming back right before act 6... Bro open your eyes this is purely to increase sales of all of these items in game... whale milking 101
    No, it's not. No matter how many times people say it's just for money, that's not going to make it the case.
    If you really wanted the reason, the long and short of it is really quite simple. To make it harder to do.
    You keep thinking that... I've been around in mcoc waaaayyy to long to know the difference for entitled to your opinion though & good luck getting 100%in act 5
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,460 ★★★★★
    If you've been around that long, then you should know people cry "Money pit!" with every decision they don't like.
  • Ace_03Ace_03 Posts: 815 ★★★★
    DrZola said:

    Nothing I’ve seen from the team dissuades me that: the game team is tired of making content only to see (1) certain, select and readily available 3/4*’s wreck it or (2) certain 5/6* champs at the top of the power curve wreck it with the help of synergies from low-rarity champs.

    That’s what all of Kabam Goggy s “tightly constructed” gobbledygook was about.

    What will be fun is seeing how much everyone likes it when Cavalier difficulty becomes the new UC with all the juicy treats. Playing (and spending) for years but being artificially gated from content may be just enough to turn the addicts back into discerning customers.

    Dr. Zola

    Not to mention that every year that passes, it becomes more about quantity, instead of quality. Plus 5* have the added difficulty of needing double the awakenings to make their signature abilities work at their peak, I'm sure with this they are looking to severely cripple our roster utility and overall strategizing. All for the sake of balance, of course.
  • TaZ_4178TaZ_4178 Posts: 285

    If you've been around that long, then you should know people cry "Money pit!" with every decision they don't like.

    I actually agree with just about all of this... accept sometimes those people crying are justified and right... all im saying but good luck to you I still look forward to hoping in act 6 on Wednesday either way because I've built my roster to the best of my abilities based on non spending habits and rng and a ton of patience... still a absolute shame we can't bring 4*s but hey... this is kabam we're talking about here... LET THE WHALE MILKING COMMENCE!😆
  • Tasty_Yum_YumsTasty_Yum_Yums Posts: 393 ★★★
    So act 6.1 is the route we need to take to removing the help request feature. Good to know
  • Bidzy7Bidzy7 Posts: 157





    My Roster is fair. I wouldn't say I'm balling, but I have a number of Champs I can use. Some more than others. The amount I've spent is in the thousands as I've been around for over 3 years, but none of that really went to my 5* Roster, not much anyway.
    4*s are not obsolete. You just can't use them in 6.1. Nor would it be reasonable to assume you would be able to tackle any and all new content with them. The whole business of saying that 4*s will still be viable is out of context. When they introduced 6*s, the fear was that 4*s would become useless. At that time, it was mentioned that they would still be viable. NOWHERE did they say they would work for every piece of new content released, and not once was it implied that they would be able to carry you through Act 6. The days of taking a 2* SW into ROL are over. For quite some time now.
    As for whether I believe it's reasonable or not, it's pretty moot either way because the decision is not mine to make, and it's already been made. From a logical standpoint, I understand the purpose of roadblocks such as this, and I understand some reasons as to why blocking 4*s makes sense to their objectives. What really makes it reasonable for me is the level of progression that people are at by the time this is an issue for them. They have enough 5*s to do it. So, they don't have all the best utility ones, so what? Thousands of Players make their way through content all the time using the best they can, which isn't always the best option. They get through it. It's also not going anywhere, so if people want to wait for better options, that's entirely up to them. If they don't have patience, that might be a problem. It doesn't mean they have to run out and spend like mad, and it doesn't mean they can't try with what they have.
    Overreaction is what it is. It hasn't even gone live yet, people haven't even seen what they need to get through it, and already it's somehow the end of their Rosters. Something that happens often here. People think in absolutes. God Tier/useless, 4*s for everything/nothing at all, have everything you need/will never get through it. It's not that black-and-white. All it means is, we will be taking 5 and 6*s into it. That's it. I see it reasonable because there are many other possibilities and options, and I see it a great deal less reasonable to expect a 4* to be the best option for the duration of the game, for any and all future content. There's no such thing as an indefinite option in this game.

    well then your viewpoint is coming from a different perspective as you would be classed as a spender. Is it safe to say you have spent money on boosts, revives and potions to help clear difficult content before ?

    Well actually what this means is yeah 4* are Obsolete. If you shift your focus to now meeting the requirements of Act 6 why would we ever end up going back.

    In terms of viability people are proving every day that skilled players can tackle the content with 4*.

    well their objectives with this roadblock is pretty much money orientated. I imagine with the release of all these top tier 5* FGMC they planning they are hoping for people to jump at the chances of these.

    Also i have to disagree to some extent on the average players progression upon reaching act 6. New players wont have as much of an issue as from a early point they will begin to phase out 4* a lot quicker and plan for it. Because resources are scarce people are very reluctant to take up 5* past r3 and also they are waiting for that dupe. Hell even rewards from act5 are 4* focused to a degree with the 2 4* 4-5 gems and 4 star crystal. Also variant also pushed people down the route of promoting the use of 4* to tackle all the different nodes if they didn't have a 5* that could do it but had the 4* version as a maxed out 4* is as good as a r3 5* and that is enough. Like i said out of the 48 5* i have only 6 of them are at r4 or above. One reason is i don't have resources to promote that often.





  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,460 ★★★★★
    Bidzy7 said:





    My Roster is fair. I wouldn't say I'm balling, but I have a number of Champs I can use. Some more than others. The amount I've spent is in the thousands as I've been around for over 3 years, but none of that really went to my 5* Roster, not much anyway.
    4*s are not obsolete. You just can't use them in 6.1. Nor would it be reasonable to assume you would be able to tackle any and all new content with them. The whole business of saying that 4*s will still be viable is out of context. When they introduced 6*s, the fear was that 4*s would become useless. At that time, it was mentioned that they would still be viable. NOWHERE did they say they would work for every piece of new content released, and not once was it implied that they would be able to carry you through Act 6. The days of taking a 2* SW into ROL are over. For quite some time now.
    As for whether I believe it's reasonable or not, it's pretty moot either way because the decision is not mine to make, and it's already been made. From a logical standpoint, I understand the purpose of roadblocks such as this, and I understand some reasons as to why blocking 4*s makes sense to their objectives. What really makes it reasonable for me is the level of progression that people are at by the time this is an issue for them. They have enough 5*s to do it. So, they don't have all the best utility ones, so what? Thousands of Players make their way through content all the time using the best they can, which isn't always the best option. They get through it. It's also not going anywhere, so if people want to wait for better options, that's entirely up to them. If they don't have patience, that might be a problem. It doesn't mean they have to run out and spend like mad, and it doesn't mean they can't try with what they have.
    Overreaction is what it is. It hasn't even gone live yet, people haven't even seen what they need to get through it, and already it's somehow the end of their Rosters. Something that happens often here. People think in absolutes. God Tier/useless, 4*s for everything/nothing at all, have everything you need/will never get through it. It's not that black-and-white. All it means is, we will be taking 5 and 6*s into it. That's it. I see it reasonable because there are many other possibilities and options, and I see it a great deal less reasonable to expect a 4* to be the best option for the duration of the game, for any and all future content. There's no such thing as an indefinite option in this game.

    well then your viewpoint is coming from a different perspective as you would be classed as a spender. Is it safe to say you have spent money on boosts, revives and potions to help clear difficult content before ?

    Well actually what this means is yeah 4* are Obsolete. If you shift your focus to now meeting the requirements of Act 6 why would we ever end up going back.

    In terms of viability people are proving every day that skilled players can tackle the content with 4*.

    well their objectives with this roadblock is pretty much money orientated. I imagine with the release of all these top tier 5* FGMC they planning they are hoping for people to jump at the chances of these.

    Also i have to disagree to some extent on the average players progression upon reaching act 6. New players wont have as much of an issue as from a early point they will begin to phase out 4* a lot quicker and plan for it. Because resources are scarce people are very reluctant to take up 5* past r3 and also they are waiting for that dupe. Hell even rewards from act5 are 4* focused to a degree with the 2 4* 4-5 gems and 4 star crystal. Also variant also pushed people down the route of promoting the use of 4* to tackle all the different nodes if they didn't have a 5* that could do it but had the 4* version as a maxed out 4* is as good as a r3 5* and that is enough. Like i said out of the 48 5* i have only 6 of them are at r4 or above. One reason is i don't have resources to promote that often.





    There's an entire game outside of Act 6 that you can use 4*s on. It's one aspect of the game. Not being able to use 4*s in it does not make it obsolete. Nor does it mean they're phasing them out. It just means within Storymode, you can't rely on them up to a certain point.
    I'm sorry, but the whole idea of it being money-oriented is just plain old conjecture, and the only thing it's based on is the fact that one way you can acquire Champs is by spending. That's not the only way, it isn't even the main way, or the focus of the game. You get them through playing the game. There are a number of sources for Shards, and those sources increase periodically.
    All this emphasis on Ranking the "right" Champs is pretty blind to the use of others. Granted, there are some that can't do much of anything, I won't argue that. However, if you're expecting to take an R5 4* into Act 6, you can do the same with an R3 5*, and that doesn't take much in terms of Resources at all. That argument isn't sound with me.
    You don't have to spend to do anything. All money does is speed up the process. However, if you're trying to convince me that out of a pool of 48, there's nothing that can be used for Act 6, I'm afraid that's not even statistically sound with me.
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    Kobster84 said:

    xNig said:

    Kobster84 said:

    xNig said:

    Kobster84 said:

    xNig said:

    xNig said:

    Tbh the ban isn’t a big deal. I don’t see anyone making noise about having to have wasted resources on their 3*s. 😂

    The ban is a big deal. Especially for someone like me who managed to complete act 5 largely due to my GR(4*) + Blade synergy, my 4* Loki that wrecked Act 5 Ultron & 4* SL that swept through RoL.
    4*s are still very viable for end game content as it stands.
    Lol you won’t wanna bring 4*s into A6 really.. the only use for them there is synergy. And it sounds like your roster isn’t developed enough yet.

    Have you completed, or explored, A5? It makes a lot of difference.
    I 100% act 5 with just 4* I can guarantee I’d be able to use them for non synergy purposes
    You’re a fresh Level 60 with 1 R5. A6 isn’t made for you.
    Are you looking at the pi of the champs 30k is easy so why isn’t it made for me enlighten me
    The fact that you’re complaining about it coupled with your account just says that you don’t have the roster depth for it.
    The fact is I’d have the skill to do it but due to not having the 4* I’m lacking a lot of the niche counters that’s my point
    Then wait for the champs. Tbh your account is underdeveloped even compared to both my secondary accounts, both of which also 100% A5 with 4*s.

    In addition you’re not even in a competitive alliance (1.45k war rating). I don’t see why you cannot wait and develop your account more before even commenting on content that’s obviously not designed for you.
    I could be in a higher ally if I wanted I’ve gotten offers from plat ally’s and “content that is not designed for you” I was accused of being a modder for doing act 5 100% so early so I’m pretty sure I’m ready for act 6
  • Bidzy7Bidzy7 Posts: 157
    DrZola said:

    Nothing I’ve seen from the team dissuades me that the game team is tired of making content only to see (1) certain, select and readily available 3/4*’s wreck it or (2) certain 5/6* champs at the top of the power curve wreck it with the help of synergies from low-rarity champs.

    That’s what all of Kabam Goggy’s “tightly constructed” gobbledygook was about.

    What will be fun is seeing how much everyone likes it when Cavalier difficulty becomes the new UC with all the juicy treats. Playing (and spending) for years but being artificially gated from content may be just enough to turn the addicts back into discerning customers.

    Dr. Zola

    100% agree
    This is exactly the same thing i think as one of the drivers for this restriction. Which seems clear also by the fact by the number of paths in each quest and the energy required compared to act 5

    Act 5.1. required a total of 2184
    Act 6.1. will require 3600 energy
  • FrankCYoungFrankCYoung Posts: 194
    Seems like that new kabam mod stirred up a hornets nest with this info..I know business comes first and they gotta keep the game going in different directions to maintain the difficulty of the game and keep it going for years to come, I believe the change discussion was a little out of the blue and shocking to most if all players of the game including me...maybe if the gave players a heads up about the change a month or a few weeks before it would happen it might of given players time to build what they need/ build of resources and not wasting them on 4* anymore. As we all know some resources are hard to come by and I can see why some are upset...as well as endgame play 4* had no problem in getting the job done...kinda stinks that 4* can’t be used now. They could of made some happy medium for the gamers before the out of the blues news...can’t please everyone but it could of been ran through the community to see what and how players of the game think about it before dropping a bomb and having a angry, mad mob go ape **** and rattle the community fourms with non stop WTF reply’s. I’m certain they probably demoted the mod that drop the news...because after reading the changes it really didn’t make sense to me and I’m sure a lot of others feel the same way.
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Posts: 1,233 ★★★★

    axelelf_1 said:

    @GroundedWisdom I'd just LOVE to see your 5* and 6* roster, since you're okay with this change.

    He just became uncollected. His focus is arena. Anything concerning act 6 is irrelevant to him. He’s just the biggest Kabam apologist to ever grace the forum.
    You do not speak for me, and you do not speak to what is and is not relevant to me. It's relevant to anyone that hasn't done it yet.
    I haven't "just" become Uncollected. It's been a number of months now. Regardless, we're having a discussion about Act 6. Not me or what I have and have not done.
    I make no apologies for anyone. I'm not representative of them to do so. I will however, interject with common sense regardless of whether people like to hear it or not. Otherwise this place just fills with emotional outbursts and no logic is here.
    I think pretty much all of your posts are irrelevant here if you aren't into the endgame (or at least, yknow, Act 5). I'm pretty sure experiences can make your opinion, so, if you don't have those experiences, basically everything you say doesn't matter lol.
    Except that no-one else has any experience of Act 6 either, so your argument is invalid...
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,460 ★★★★★

    axelelf_1 said:

    @GroundedWisdom I'd just LOVE to see your 5* and 6* roster, since you're okay with this change.

    He just became uncollected. His focus is arena. Anything concerning act 6 is irrelevant to him. He’s just the biggest Kabam apologist to ever grace the forum.
    You do not speak for me, and you do not speak to what is and is not relevant to me. It's relevant to anyone that hasn't done it yet.
    I haven't "just" become Uncollected. It's been a number of months now. Regardless, we're having a discussion about Act 6. Not me or what I have and have not done.
    I make no apologies for anyone. I'm not representative of them to do so. I will however, interject with common sense regardless of whether people like to hear it or not. Otherwise this place just fills with emotional outbursts and no logic is here.
    I think pretty much all of your posts are irrelevant here if you aren't into the endgame (or at least, yknow, Act 5). I'm pretty sure experiences can make your opinion, so, if you don't have those experiences, basically everything you say doesn't matter lol.
    It's a discussion, and anyone can comment. I'm "into Act 5". Thanks for your feedback, though.
  • FrankCYoungFrankCYoung Posts: 194
    If my house burned down I would want to talk to my insurance agent...not my next door neighbor, just saying 😉
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