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Gifting Badge Discussion [Merged Threads]

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Comments

  • Vale84Vale84 Member Posts: 308 ★★★

    Lvl 1 and 2 potions are still relatively useful to me when I have a huge stack expiring in my inventory. I do like the idea of scaling the potions up by title though. Even so, potions can be farmed in rol and by saving the 4 hour crystals, and the venom boss quest in act 4 is a fairly reliable way to farm lvl 1 revives. I also agree on the idea of reducing the price of potions (not revives), because they’re horribly overpriced for their actual value. Even so, a lvl2 revive can top off most champions well enough, so that’s a bit of a moot point besides iceman fights.

    I guess my point is that the system has flaws, but it’s also possible to work within it and still have proper healing resources w/o spending any units.

    I would think you're still at the level where you have to face peculiar champs on aimed nodes. If you take as example iceman as reference, where iceman coldsnap has been widely reduced along his sig as quest encounter, there's many more examples where you ll need a full heal.

    Just on a quick tought, i can name Domino put on a biohazard node, like map 7, where hitting WITHOUT triggering bleed will activate her sig ability and have you spend the whole fight degening for no reason. Dormammu degen is another example, along the mentioned iceman, Havok's ability trigger, block damage, and entire degen, starbust lanes for events and aqs. Bane, Duel, aspect of war, they are all nodes where yeah, you can play peerlessly and come out of it, but you will alwais want to have a champion at least above 60% hp. cause revives are more of a waste than potions.
  • Plato92Plato92 Member Posts: 102
    All I wanted was units but I got that a while ago I was expecting to be compensated for this issue but I will gladly take what I can get at this point. So please let this issue go maybe after a while we will get it back, but we need to be patient with Kabam and let them find a way to fix it and make it better so for now just move on and be happy you got units for it this time around.
  • winterthurwinterthur Member Posts: 8,058 ★★★★★
    Maybe this will be introduced which will allow trade-up of higher level revive and potion.

    Item Transmutation

    It’s not quite turning lead into gold, but during the Trials you’ll be able to harness your inner alchemist by going to the Featured Tab in the Store and combine certain low value items to create a new higher value one! You’ll be able to combine:

    Level 1 Health Potions into a Level 2 Health Potion
    Level 2 Health Potions into a Level 3 Health Potion
    Level 2 Team Health Potions into a Level 3 Team Health Potion
    Level 1 Revives into a Level 2 Revive
    Level 1 Alliance Health Potions into a Level 2 Alliance Health Potion
    Level 2 Alliance Health Potions into a Level 3 Alliance Health Potion
    Level 1 Alliance Revives into a Level 2 Alliance Revive

    All Transmutations will require 2 of the lower level potion/revive to create the higher level one. For example, you’ll need to combine 2 Level 2 Health Potions to create a Level 3 Health Potion.

  • HulksmasshhHulksmasshh Member Posts: 742 ★★★

    Nov2018 said:

    Wrong,,,... it is the other way round.
    Bought the units because of the gift badge

    Some people buy Baseball Cards for the Gum.
    That doesn't change the fact that the Units were the purchase, not the Badge.

    Price of an Odin w/Badge - $100
    Price of an Odin w/o Badge - $100

    Given the extraordinary circumstances of fraud, I beliege Kabam made the best decisions in removing the gifting badge and refunding us units. But your argument that the unit package is the same with and without the gifting badge is just awful. It’s like if Kabam released new unit packages that every Odin came with a 6* crystal and a bunch of people bought it then Kabam rescinded their offer and took back everyone’s 6* champs, but left the units. Of course people would be pissed.

    Again, I think Kabam made the best possible choice in a rough situation. But the unit package offer is clearly different with and without the gifting badge. It’s not just a bonus item that can be taken without consequence. Kabam did rectify it (mostly) with the 850 unit refund so that can be closed, but your argument is terrible.
  • Plato92Plato92 Member Posts: 102
    I understand that this hurts everyone but not everyone is guilty of it so banning a whole alliance when it could have one or two of the members in the alliance that done it, just doesn’t work out so for now just give them time to figure something out for the next time bring it back or reinstate it. But to say that a whole alliance should be banned for it isn’t right, some of them work hard to get those units the hard way instead of cheating in the game. I myself use Apple iTunes to purchase units for this game so does that mean I should have my account banned for it even though I bought it legitimately without using a third party site
  • Plato92Plato92 Member Posts: 102
    Because that is what some people got in trouble for using a third party site to purchase units or others content in the game so in that case I understand on why those accounts should be banned but other account are just people following the rules and regulations so not a whole team should get the axe but a select few should if found guilty of the fraudulent actions in which Kabam pulled the gifting badge away from everyone.
  • kpkumardtskpkumardts Member Posts: 120
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  • Vale84Vale84 Member Posts: 308 ★★★
    edited March 2019
    Vale84 said:

    Let me me blunt. This won't be a short post. This wants to be a deeper analysis of the current situation of the game after the removal of gifting. I will start with 2 main points:

    1)WELL DONE. This was a long plague that despite being beneficial to almost all players, was depending on frauds. HAving them coming from couple people wanting a quick buck or being purely money laundering from Asian, European or any other Region, this needed to stop.

    2)At today, there is a ongoing "no spending week" movement. While i do understand the removal of gifts means more issues than goodies for summoners, i can't agree with it. By no means we should support any kind of fraud, and i am referring not to fraud toward kabam, rather fraud moeny being laundered in an online game.

    With that said, there ARE problems arising. And what follows wants to be not a flame, but a reasonable critique to the current system and state of the game from resources perspective.

    As start, let's be honest and brutal: fraud odins and units HAVE SUSTAINED the game for the last years. By no means summoners would be able to compete for higher AQs, or AWs without Donations being dropped, or potions/revives being purchased at lower price. None but maybe 2% of the current player population would be able to afford the full impact of donations+potions+revives+boosts. With this i am not saying this practice was good, but i'm saying, and stating, that it's been the pillar of the MCoC "society", and without it, there wouldn't be enough sustain ingame for summoners to play like they did last years.

    From this, i'm certain that the other side of the medal brought Kabam to record and acquire data on their events which wasn't resembling the true status of the game. With this, i mean having a noticeable lower revenue that probably expected due to people being able to access cheaper units for their accounts. That is a problem for both Kabam and playerbase, as it probably gave Kabam the wrong idea and pushed them towards adding difficulty, weird nodes, and combination of characters or matchups being probably harder than needed to cope up with the unexpected loss of revenue (the so called wallet nodes, bs nodes, and unavoidable dmg nodes).
    On another side, having this "fake" return of data, my guess is Kabam never really thought or felt like overhauling the POTION/REVIVES system. If summoners were able to clear content in a much easier way then predicted (we're still talking buisness and revenue here ofc) why would they need to add further ways of obtaining said resources. Makes sense.
    We are all aware that revives were made "casual" and impossible to farm consistently, if not trough milestones. Among them, only 20% and 40% are obtainable ingame. Same goes for potions, where even random drops from content like VARIANT, ACT 5-6 and similar only nets up to a lv 3 potion. Lv3 potions are the highest tier of heals consistently farmable ingame (RoL mainly), and are by far obsolete with the amount of HP r4 and r5 5* have.


    With that said, i'd like to take a step further into MCoC structure: MCoC is, and will still be, a FREE TO PLAY game with micro transactions to support the developer. There are many many free to play game which arised in popularity in the gaming community (i won't make names). Every single one of them either gets income from selling "looks" or "boosters". meaning they either give players the opportunity to customize accounts or directly sell them "faster account improvement" in forms like better weapons, better resources, and so on.
    In MCoC's case, the second one is the leitmotif, where you purchase micro-transactions in order to boost your account and speed up the process of building it stronger.
    In most of cases, and MCoC is no exception, you sell "TIME". You trade less time spent ingame obtaining those resources in exchange for your money and an istant availability. Which is still in the domain of "fairness".

    But here comes the hurdle: NONE, or very FEW of F2P games not only sell "Boosters", but also "basic items". That's where i feel MCoC is responsible, partially, into fueling up fraud units sellers.
    BY NO MEANS, IN ANY GAME, BASIC ITEMS SHOULD BE BARRICATED BEHIND MICROTRANSACTIONS. And sadly, MCoC is exactly there in terms of HEALING.


    We have a potion and revive system ranging from lv1 to lv5. Both for Revives and Heals. That's already two separated items needed to heal. Of those 2 items:

    REVIVES: Can't be farmed and appear randomly in quests with low cadency. Rewarded in milestones for individual and ally's events. Of those, only LV1 and LV2 are obtainable ingame. Rest can only be purchased through microtransactions.
    POTIONS: Random drops from fights in all content, can be farmed consistently in RoL mainly (time consuming), but only LV1, LV2, and LV3 potions are currently available ingame. LV4 and LV5, both team and single ones, can be only purchased through micro transactions. Lv1-2-3 are by now obsolete and will be even more obsolete with the advent of 6* rankups.

    And this is a very HUGE deal.

    That's exactly the reason why for years the "Black Market" has flourished to those levels. To the point it had to shut down. BASIC ITEMS shouldn't be hidden behind paywalls by no means. But let me rephrase better:

    IT'S FAIR TO SELL BASIC ITEMS IN MICROTRANSACTIONS AS LONG AS THE SAME ITEMS ARE OBTAINABLE INGAME FOR THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF TIME INVESTED.

    That MUST be the main rule. As i said above, microtransactions are purchases of "TIME", allowing you to skip the "farming" and gaining access to ISTANT rewards.

    But what to do when the rewards you can purchase in 1 minute CAN'T be farmed in many hours through ingame content? Players should be rewarded for the time invested ingame being it farming or clearing content. You can't clear content without farming, unless you purchase "boosters" and cut the line, which is fair given you're giving sustain to the developer.
    But that's a one way situation while it should be a two ways one.

    -I will save time purchasing microtransactions for what i need

    or

    -I will not invest money but my time to gain what i need through ingame free drops.

    Putting a CAP, or a BAN, to the level of items being farmable ingame is EXACTLY what made fraud units so abused. If i can't afford 100 bucks for an odin, and there's nothing over lv3 potions to obtain with hours and hours of farming, what should i do, considering what i farm in 10 hours will be ok for 5 fights, given how the content has skyrocketed to new levels as the game progressed?
    Fraud units answered those demands.
    From a certain point of view, Kabam is responsible of what happened. Not factoring in this HUGE thing (no paywalls on basic items, again) has brought the game where it is.

    That is why closing down gifting was and is A GOOD CHOICHE. but it isn't nearly ENOUGH.

    Dear Kabam, i don't have better words to put this in, but right now you're cutting legs to 90% of your playerbase, despite doing the right thing. That's why:

    1) Cap on potions levels MUST be revoked, and you need to create "FARMING SPOTS" of different tiers to allow summoners to trade "TIME" for "ITEMS".
    2) Revives needs to be farmable at a consistent rate, adjusting difficulty of farming spots based on revive levels.
    3) SELLING potions and revives is still ok, as long as you can obtain ingame what you can buy, without bracketing differently.
    4) POTION LEVELS AND REVIVES levels need a COMPLETE OVERHAUL: we're at the point 75% of healing is absolutely useless.
    5) Have potions SCALE UP with titles, whereas progressing through ACT4, 5, and 6 wih the related titles and higher tier of ingame items obtainable potions and revives scale too.

    Else, there gonna be dark days ahead. We all love this game, and the least we want is people boycotting it, or the population getting halved.

    PS: the very same argument can be made for donations. Loyalty, battlechips, Gold all need a better farmability, and that too can be tiered with titles and acts progression up to currently cavalier. a node paying up 100 gold for a act 1 new account runner should net 1000 gold in every content for a cavalier running it, for example. Same goes for grey ISO and anything basic in the game.

    Hoping to have kept my wall of text decent and respectful, i'd like to hear other's opinions as well as the mods point of view.

    Regards.

    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra @Kabam Porthos

    how convenient to merge my other thread onto this without even the attention into keeping the flux of the convo pristine and mixing in other comments. despite what we were talking about was more a potion overhaul then the need of getting units back for the badge purchases.

    I guess you didn't bother reading the post rather just the title, and it comes very helpful putting everything in a single thread so that main points will get diluted into the costant flame of the golden boys trio.

    If i was against a protest and supported your choiche, i still support the choiche but you aren't gaining simphaty from me trying to blow smoke on every thread remotely inviting you to... move yer back and work on the game to balance it now that gifting is gone. Sometimes i just wonder HOW, how does MCoC make so much money.

    THANKS for the extreme attention to details like alwais. Hopefully you guys don't have pets, or the same level of attention would prove quite bothersome to them.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,520 ★★★★★
    edited March 2019

    Nov2018 said:

    Wrong,,,... it is the other way round.
    Bought the units because of the gift badge

    Some people buy Baseball Cards for the Gum.
    That doesn't change the fact that the Units were the purchase, not the Badge.

    Price of an Odin w/Badge - $100
    Price of an Odin w/o Badge - $100

    Given the extraordinary circumstances of fraud, I beliege Kabam made the best decisions in removing the gifting badge and refunding us units. But your argument that the unit package is the same with and without the gifting badge is just awful. It’s like if Kabam released new unit packages that every Odin came with a 6* crystal and a bunch of people bought it then Kabam rescinded their offer and took back everyone’s 6* champs, but left the units. Of course people would be pissed.

    Again, I think Kabam made the best possible choice in a rough situation. But the unit package offer is clearly different with and without the gifting badge. It’s not just a bonus item that can be taken without consequence. Kabam did rectify it (mostly) with the 850 unit refund so that can be closed, but your argument is terrible.
    It's different in that you have access to the Feature after making the purchase, yes. The cost of the Offer is the same because people were not in fact, buying the Badge. "Free Gift With Purchase" is incentive that many companies use to make Offers more appealing, but the Offer IS the purchase.
    They gave 300 Units originally, most likely because they knew people would want something, although I can't say that for certain, I wasn't there. Could have been that it was what they valued it at. They added 550 Units because people persisted that 300 was not enough. So, people received the Units they purchased, plus the use of the Badge for the duration it was active, plus an extra 850 Units. It is, and was, a Bonus Item. One that required a minimum one-time purchase to access.
    The Offer is the same price with or without the Badge. That was what was purchased. They went out of their way to make sure people were compensated something, and I respect that. However, from my point of view, people already received what they purchased when they bought the Units. That is not an inherent part of those Offers. It was a Feature that they allowed access to with your first purchase, and people abused it to the point that no one is able to use it now.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,520 ★★★★★
    I swear, people argue in packs. LOL.
    Nowhere did Kabam even comment whether it was a Gift or Purchase. They agreed that they could have given more, after people expressed their disappointment with the 300 Units.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,520 ★★★★★
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,520 ★★★★★
    In the words of The Giant, "Look up! WAAAAAY UP!".
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,520 ★★★★★
    You're confusing Compensation with a Refund. Not to mention just arguing semantics with me. I'm bored with it, though. Enjoy your Units.
  • Captain_NietschCaptain_Nietsch Member Posts: 481 ★★

    I agree with the removal of the gifting badge BUT

    In my old alliance we used to help players to clear LOL. We went together and helped a few in the alliance with revives. I have gifted revives to people that are worth more than 2 or 3 odins and now I have no means to recover my expenses. What am I supposed to do in this case? I didn't sell them anything. Just help them and they were supposed to gift the items back once they finish

    The few units received as a compensation are worth nothing and I am left with a taste of d..k in my mouth and every time Kabam is doing changes, I get the same taste....EVERY TIME!

    I have never used to buy items from anyone. I make purchases in the game by legal means and I grind the arenas regularly. Nearly 180k pvp on my own time....

    How are we supposed to help alliance members when they are in trouble in AQ/AW? Nobody is perfect and we all have bad days from time to time. Or we wake up because we need to clear a node in AQ and play in a rush. Everyone knows about this....

    The decision will affect lots of people

    Kabam please think of a way to avoid fraud and bring the badge back or we will lose people. Heck...I might go to a different game too if it continues like that

    That is food for thought.
    Many have probably helped alliance members, like you did, hoping for the alliance mate to be able to return the favor once needed, or as soon as they have the units. There should be some way for players like you to get some of it back. This seems like an unforeseen result from suddenly removing the gifting badge.
    A proper warning and giving players a week to perhaps even out things gifted to one another would have at least helped a bit. Maybe submitting a ticket due to this problem would be good? to let the game team know that you now have this problem due to the gifting badge being removed.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,520 ★★★★★
    You literally just did that. Honestly, if you don't like what I say, why do you even bother talking to me? What do you think that will accomplish? Nothing, really. Just arbitrary arguments that fill the Forum which have to be cleaned up by the Mods. Here's a solution, if you don't like me, just scroll on. I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.
  • rafael125rafael125 Member Posts: 4
    i'm pay badged with money , give me back my REAL MONEY , tired of this game
  • DshuDshu Member Posts: 1,504 ★★★★
    rafael125 said:

    i'm pay badged with money , give me back my REAL MONEY , tired of this game

    Unfortunately kabam can't do that. The closest they can come is giving you the value in units. While not ideal it is the best they can do since the purchase was actually made through either iTunes or Google play. They stepped up the units for this to make it the equivalent of what most people spent. You can try contacting iTunes or Google play or cut your losses but they have been fair with the compensation and that's what most on this thread have asked for
  • SummonerNRSummonerNR Member, Guardian Posts: 12,420 Guardian
    @Kabam Miike , Thanks for the extra Units. And although I support your decision to remove Gifting, guess I’m still confused overall how removing gifting will prevent the Real-World FRAUD that has been occurring ? If I recall, you could never gift actual Units (only Potions, Crystals, etc), correct ?

    So the people committing Fraud are (for example) stealing Credit Card info, and then using stolen CC info to sell game packs either...

    (1) by having people give them their game Login ID/Password, and then the fraudster logs in to your account and buys you a game pack. But that would require them to also be given your actual Apple/Google ID/Password too, since that is how purchases are completed. And Kabam should be able to identify that it was done from a different device, just like they can check for Account Sharing, and could just revoke any Unit Purchases (or otherwise “dock” the account) that were bought while “account shared”.

    or (2) by buying an Apple/Google Gift Card, and then selling that Gift Card to people across the internet, who then load that into their own Apple/Google account. And then they purchase game packs from their own device, there never is any remote device access or account sharing.

    So with (2), how can this type of Fraud actually be stopped by any changes made to the game ? Even removing Gifting does not prevent this type of Fraud. Or is the problem indeed related to “gifting” and people were getting a whole bunch of Potions, Revives, etc, but not actually a whole bunch of Units ?
  • Mirage_TurtleMirage_Turtle Member Posts: 1,868 ★★★★
    Kabam refunding the full amount of units was definitely the way to go from the beginning. I'm glad they waded through the sea of moral outrage here to glean the helpful feedback and then actually implement it in short order. Kudos for that.

    I sincerely hope this experience serves as an example of how things should operate when running a business with customer service in mind. I hope they took notice about how many people did a 180 on this topic as soon as common sense customer service practices were exercised. If something purchasable is broken, refund the purchase amount while you work to fix it. And if you don't intend to fix it, at least the customer is buying the item/feature with full knowledge.

    For example, the inequity mastery has been acknowledged by Kabam to be not functioning as intended. They were even going to roll out a fix, but then held it back at the last minute. That was over a year ago. When the fix was held back, people who bought inequity should have had their units refunded and the mastery re-locked while the mastery is worked on. They player can then make an informed decision on whether or not to re-purchase the mastery in it's current "not functioning as intended" state or use those units elsewhere. But at least the player is made whole and informed.

    This is how customer service should be done.
  • KpatrixKpatrix Member Posts: 1,055 ★★★
    Maybe now we can force their hand to fix masteries that were paid for but don’t work as advertised.

    Still agree with their decision to remove gifting due to the exploits and fraud involved. It sucked at first but was the right call to maintain integrity and shut down criminal behavior while the work on a solution.
  • Hdj2Hdj2 Member Posts: 37
    @Kabam Miike

    Some people will always be upset with the decisions , I'm still upset about the gifting badge being gone. Regardless of what people originally spent to receive it I feel what you guys did is fair compensation. I've bought odins , black panther and stark packages. I honestly dont remember which one I bought 1st that gave me the badge. The lowest package that offered it was the stark so the equivalent amount of units is fine with me. Thank you for listening to the community.

    Now about the badge . Instead of giving the badge back to individual players in the future would there be a way it could be implemented into say the alliance, players have to be in an alliance to gift and can only gift with members of their alliance. Maybe even set a timeline like there is for everything else , ex: player has to be a member in the alliance for a minimum of 7 days to be able to gift. This would be easier to track unusual transactions on your end I believe, but would still allow players to help each other. I feel it would slow or contain some cheating and if caught doing so the members of said alliance regardless of who they are, get punished with a ban. I just feel some of the community is upset because when alot of these cheats happen it appears to be top tier players doing it and they rarely get punished.

    My first account got a permanent ban back before all the talks about account sharing etc... a so called game friend said they would help me get uncollected but used a mod to do it . I understand the reasons for the ban . I won't lie either I was extremely upset and made some inappropriate tickets / posts . So I guess my question is , how is it any different if a mod is used to beat game content or if fraudulent units/items are used . A cheat is a cheat , favouritism should not be shown to anyone whether it be a somewhat famous youtuber , the leader of a top tier alliance or just some normal everyday person.
  • Crilla420Crilla420 Member Posts: 96
    I have baught deals in the past that should have compasanted me for the gifting. I sent in a support email and the just keep getting the same genetic response. Saying that they are looking in to it to see what happened. Wait a couple of hours after I don’t hear from the I asked for a update on the same email thread and they close the case with putbeven saying anything or why I didn’t receive anything.
  • Mirage_TurtleMirage_Turtle Member Posts: 1,868 ★★★★
    Crilla420 said:

    I have baught deals in the past that should have compasanted me for the gifting. I sent in a support email and the just keep getting the same genetic response. Saying that they are looking in to it to see what happened. Wait a couple of hours after I don’t hear from the I asked for a update on the same email thread and they close the case with putbeven saying anything or why I didn’t receive anything.

    Did you buy a unit pack in the store that cost at least $29.99 on your account?
  • Crilla420Crilla420 Member Posts: 96
    Fa real. Would you like too see what I have purchased.
  • xNigxNig Member Posts: 7,329 ★★★★★
    Deals besides the gifting pack rarely give you the gifting badge.
  • Crilla420Crilla420 Member Posts: 96


    Please stop
  • Crilla420Crilla420 Member Posts: 96
    Not sure why I got put here I didn’t get anything. I’m not asking for a refund just want the 850 units. @Kabam Miike
  • Doctor14Doctor14 Member Posts: 37
    Not going to lie I’m disappointed. While I’m grateful that you’re doing any compensation I know around Christmas I spent a lot of real money in hopes of getting a Kang and Thanos. I think rather than credits I want a 5 star Thanos and Kang.
  • Hdj2Hdj2 Member Posts: 37
    @Kabam Miike

    Besides the removal of the gifting badge will any of these proven cheaters be punished with a ban?

    How is it any different if a player uses a mod to beat content or if they use fraudulent units/items.

    Favoritism should not be shown to anyone regardless of who they are or the size of their account. I had my 1st account banned because a so called in game friend offered to beat uncollected for me. He used a mod and apparently did a little more then uncollected. I was upset over the ban but fully understand the reason behind it. What I don't understand is whenever these top tier players, somewhat famous youtubers etc.... are proven to be cheaters they almost always seem to get a slap on the wrist.

    I would gladly give kabam back the 850 units to see these people punished.
    Everytime these people cheat it sends a ripple effect down the line to alliances . Any in game event that has a rank reward is effected. These top players set almost impossible scores which push legit players away from rewards the would have recieved

    1 example is the video I already shared in here a couple times . I have not seen any talk about this from kabams side . How can something like this be ignored? Is it because of who is involved? Would it matter if it was a lower alliance with no youtubers involved. With this leader broadcasting what he was doing there is absolutely no way the other members weren't aware , if this leader was doing this for people he wasnt in an alliance with a person would have to be pretty gullible to believe he didnt do it for his own teammates which in turn would give them all an unfair advantage over competing alliances .

    Instead of punishing the whole community Kabam should be setting an example. Cheating wont be tolerated regardless of who it may be . I'd personally like to see every member in the video receive a permanent ban along with any other top tier alliances that are known cheaters

    Heres the video again just incase it was missed

    https://youtu.be/27K5zqsgktE
This discussion has been closed.