Class and Rarity Gates - Discussion Thread

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  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 2,030 ★★★★
    IKON said:

    xNig said:

    JRock808 said:

    Same handful people thinking this is fine despite the vast majority thinking it is completely unnecessary. And the constant back and forth between them.

    So, same stuff, different day. What a great community!

    Except the fact that the vast majority aren’t at the end of the game yet
    But bro, initial clear of 6.1 is endgame. They said it and everything....
    Please show me where they said that.
    It was sarcasm related to another person's post
  • IKONIKON Posts: 356 ★★★

    IKON said:

    xNig said:

    JRock808 said:

    Same handful people thinking this is fine despite the vast majority thinking it is completely unnecessary. And the constant back and forth between them.

    So, same stuff, different day. What a great community!

    Except the fact that the vast majority aren’t at the end of the game yet
    But bro, initial clear of 6.1 is endgame. They said it and everything....
    Please show me where they said that.
    It was sarcasm related to another person's post
    Ah, I see.
  • TheVyrusTheVyrus Posts: 294 ★★
    edited May 21
    Everyone complains that Kabam is out of touch because they force the use of 6* champs and do not upgrade the rewards. Incorrect. They are more in touch than you, see they realize it doesn't matter what they do everyone will keep playing and better yet keep spending.
    They know you will all come here or another outlet complain and then go right back to feeding the machine.
    Not saying either side is right or wrong, just observing.
  • RapRap Posts: 2,491 ★★★
    So for my/our loyalty we are being given the middle finger. With quests to the left of us and quests to the right! Too easy...xl...thanks! Gates...thanks...and everyone is moving but the middle.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,148 ★★★★★
    Rap said:

    So for my/our loyalty we are being given the middle finger. With quests to the left of us and quests to the right! Too easy...xl...thanks! Gates...thanks...and everyone is moving but the middle.

    Wut?
  • xNigxNig Posts: 3,617 ★★★★★

    xNig said:

    JRock808 said:

    Same handful people thinking this is fine despite the vast majority thinking it is completely unnecessary. And the constant back and forth between them.

    So, same stuff, different day. What a great community!

    Except the fact that the vast majority aren’t at the end of the game yet
    But bro, initial clear of 6.1 is endgame. They said it and everything....
    😂😂😂
  • Ultra8529Ultra8529 Posts: 526 ★★★

    Ultra8529 said:

    Ultra8529 said:

    Ultra8529 said:

    Endgame must be understood in context. With this move Kabam has basically affirmed that "endgame" has two subtiers:

    Endgame-spender: 0 arena but can spend 30k units on 100 cavalier crystals a week, getting 1 6* each week. Can push ahead with massive 6* rosters to clear 6.2 instantly. Will spend to clear where skills are lacking.

    Endgame-f2p: grind arena, quests and can spend about 1k units on 5 cavalier crystals a week. Gets about 1 6* from 20 weeks of grinding. Will have to wait months before attempting 6.2 at an efficient rate even with god-tier skills.

    I've spent thousands of FTP units on cavalier crystals and it hasn't advanced my roster even a little bit lol. Zero 6*s, old 5* dupes and featured 3*s lol. I'm out on those crystals for awhile. Just going to have to get it done with bad 6*s and older 5*s I guess. Not fussed about the gates though.
    Same here. The thousands of F2P units we spend on cavalier crystals simply cannot compete at the level of a spender willing to spend to buy 6*s, which is what Act 6 requires if you want to complete it in a timely fashion. As I did the math elsewhere, it is about 20 weeks of arena grinding for a f2p player to obtain a 6* from cavalier crystals bought with units obtained through f2p grinding.
    That's not true. You have to have RNG on your side. Watch. COWhale video. He opens 1000 cavalier crystals and doesn't get many. Seaton has opened close to 1000 and has only gotten 1 or 2. You could open 1 and get 1 or 500 and get zero.
    I hope you're being sarcastic lol.
    Why would that be sarcastic? Lets take my expierence for instance. Ive opened probably 30 Cavalier and 20 Featured Cavalier. Over all I have gotten 2 6*'s. On the flip side, I hace an alliance mate whos opened 100+ and has zero 6*'s. The chances of getting a 6* is the same for spenders or free to play and it doesn't matter how many you open. You can "try" to buy 6*'s but there isnt any guarantee you'll get one.
    Because you are saying 6*s are accessible on the basis of "RNG may allow you to get a 1 in 100 pull". You are using a statistical freak case to justify the broader proposition that 6*s are more available, and that is simply not true. If YOU get a 6* on your first cavalier crystal, statistically you will go 99 more without. Statistically also only 1 in 100 people get a 6* on their first cavalier crystal. For the other 99 therefore, 6*s are still inaccessible.

    I am not saying that drop rates are different between spenders and non-spenders. What I am saying is that the absolute amount of 6*s that a spender can get compared to a non-spender is vastly different. And Kabam needs to acknowledge that their statement that Cavalier makes 6* more accessible applies only to spenders, because non-spenders still have a drop rate of approximately 1 6* every 20 weeks of grinding units for cavalier crystals.
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 2,951 ★★★★★
    my rag-tag team of mediocres is ready!!!!!!

    Nebs got double immunity
    Yondu ready with the heal block
    Psylocke slicing her way to a power lock
    Rocket will nuke you
    Elektra's gonna disable your abilities

    BRING IT ON !!!!!1!!one!!
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★
    Haji_Saab said:

    my rag-tag team of mediocres is ready!!!!!!

    Nebs got double immunity
    Yondu ready with the heal block
    Psylocke slicing her way to a power lock
    Rocket will nuke you
    Elektra's gonna disable your abilities

    BRING IT ON !!!!!1!!one!!

    Jokes or not, that would work fine.
  • xNigxNig Posts: 3,617 ★★★★★
    Ultra8529 said:

    xNig said:

    Ultra8529 said:

    Endgame must be understood in context. With this move Kabam has basically affirmed that "endgame" has two subtiers:

    Endgame-spender: 0 arena but can spend 30k units on 100 cavalier crystals a week, getting 1 6* each week. Can push ahead with massive 6* rosters to clear 6.2 instantly. Will spend to clear where skills are lacking.

    Endgame-f2p: grind arena, quests and can spend about 1k units on 5 cavalier crystals a week. Gets about 1 6* from 20 weeks of grinding. Will have to wait months before attempting 6.2 at an efficient rate even with god-tier skills.

    Which proves my point that spending just saves time. There’s no way Kabam will ever be able to introduce rewards for F2P players to match up to the rate of progress for whales. Also, why should they? They make their living from people who pay, not from F2P.
    I fully agree that spending should save time. That has always been the model of the game. Spending for crystal saves you time in the arena. Spending for donations saves you time in the arena. Spending on items saves you time gathering resources.

    Unfortunately, the way that the game was in the past, and the reason why so many of us fell in love with this game, was that another way for a non-spending player to save time was to hone his/her skills. A skilled player would still progress slower, and have to spend more time, than a spender, but skill was a way to narrow the gap.

    The 6* gates is unfortunately the first instance, and probably the start of a slippery slope, where skill is taken out of the equation and a hard spend-gate is imposed on all players. As someone else has mentioned, Kabam has waved goodbye to the days of players using a 2* SL with extreme skill to take out difficult opponents. Now they want you to buy that new 6* champ or not even have a chance at fighting the content (because they are scared of players being able to clear it with minimal spending). They have given up creating content that is challenging to players, and have opted instead to impose arbitrary limits on player progression based solely on spending and RNG.
    Well, after testing 6.2, I can assure you that it’s not their intent. Roster breadth is their focus, not depth. Too many guys running around nowadays with 2-3 R5s, 4-5 R4s, relying on them to clear every single past content, thinking they’re end-game, and get sorely bitter when Plat alliances tell them their prestige or defenders aren’t up to par. That’s based on my experience though. 😊
  • DjoaoDjoao Posts: 12
    Kabam how are you going to put restrictions on Act 6.2 of 5/6 * but is it too difficult to get these crystals in the game to predict increased rewards in events?
  • GurjitGurjit Posts: 28
    Now they are deleting simple comments without any notification
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★
    I’m not a fan of these gates but as long as they add a new difficulty to eq that doesn’t require 100% I’m fine with it
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 2,951 ★★★★★
    I think people need to realise that Kabam monitor their statistics and that they mostly (or only?) act on those statistics rather than the complaints here. They will see how many people attempt 6.2 and succeed or fail ... if not too many are even attempting it, they will adjust ...

    this was evident from the recent adjustment from Save the Battlerealm quest. Hardly anyone was playing it and hence the adjustment came. Personally, I think we will be okay.
  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 1,974 ★★★★★
    The more I think about it the more I hate that the class gates are star specific. There is already a ban on 4* and below so why not just have a "4 of one class" gate where 5* and 6* count?

    Personally, I only have 1 r5 and 1 r4 skill champ. I also have 7 skill champs at 6* that I'd love to take to the 4 skill path including Ronin, KM and a duped WS. Too bad I can't take them through the skill gate. Awesome.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,452 Guardian
    Bidzy7 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DrZola said:

    I will say it again: summoner satisfaction tends to increase with control over outcomes. You can’t put everything at the whim of the players lest the game fall apart. But there’s a balancing point the game needs to be continually trying to discover.

    Dr. Zola

    Along those lines, I've been thinking about the class gates more, in relation to champion availability. I think if Kabam is going to use class gates in 6.2, perhaps this should come coincident with classful champion crystals. I was specifically thinking about - lets assume the rewards for 6.2 will be similar to 6.1 - replacing the 5* shards with special 5* classful shards that you can use to buy 5* class-specific crystals. So while you're doing the paths in 6.2 for which you have good champs of the appropriate class, you could earn crystals that specifically targeted the classes you were weaker in.

    The idea would be that when you earn 10k of these classful shards you can use them to buy any one of six different 5* crystals, each of which contained only one class. Since this would only be available to Cavalier players (the prerequisite for running 6.2 presumably), and since the focus on Act 6+ is to build rosters wider, this seems to be reasonable game option to give to the players.

    This doesn't increase the number of 5* champs you can earn, but it does provide additional control over "steering" which ones you get to help fill in gaps in the roster. Perhaps this would allow players to "balance" their rosters when RNG goes against them without breaking anything important in the overall game framework. You don't have perfect control, but you have some control.
    Its a nice idea, I think however they will be less inclined to do a single class crystal and not without a significant cost because some classes like cosmic have alot of really strong champions.

    The again this could be possible, thinking about it now, if it was implemented like the dungeon crystals. They offer a limited pool of select champions and you can only purchase one crystal. After a certain number of months these get rotated. So if they did those on a class basis that could work.
    Sorry for the delayed reply, but I was on vacation (I don't usually read the forums much when I'm on vacation). The idea would be for these "class specific" 5* crystal fragments to be earned doing 6.2 and forward, so you couldn't "farm" them: you wouldn't use the normal 5* frags. As a result, their supply would be limited (based on the total possible to earn in the different rewards for Act 6 moving forward) and thus they don't need to have a price premium or a purchase cap. They'd be like the awakening gems in Act 5 or rank up gems in Variant: we don't really "pay" for those and there's no "price premium" for them, you earn them from doing the content, and you would only have the opportunity to get so many.

    The main reason for awarding special fragments and not just straight up hand you some crystals was to allow players to decide *which* class crystal they needed to buy, rather than handing them, say, one of each class. By giving fragments instead of crystals, players would then be able to decide which crystals (and thus class or classes) to target.

    Depending on how valuable you thought these crystals were, you'd simply limit how many players could earn doing Act 6. If you though they were "too powerful" you'd let players earn fewer, if you thought they were not too powerful as a roster improving tool you'd let players earn more of them. Of course we'd all disagree on how many was "fair" but some number is probably reasonable.
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