Alliance Wars - Defense Tactics and Rewards Update Discussion Thread

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  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★
    Vdh2008 said:

    Why not just ADD Glory to the AW side of things? Each war we could get a decent amount of Glory to save or spend on whatever we like... If that was the case, these trash rewards would actually balance out.

    One reason I could think is that Glory is a byproduct of AQ, exclusive to that mode. I suppose they could add another currency and a War Store (fun to say). That may come with a rebalancing of the Rewards.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★
    A more feasible idea would be to increase Loyalty and add Items in the Loyalty Store, since it's already a currency of War. Mind you, that would involve making choices of whether you wanted to spend on more Rewards or save for higher AQ Maps.
  • Vdh2008Vdh2008 Posts: 913 ★★★★

    Vdh2008 said:

    Why not just ADD Glory to the AW side of things? Each war we could get a decent amount of Glory to save or spend on whatever we like... If that was the case, these trash rewards would actually balance out.

    One reason I could think is that Glory is a byproduct of AQ, exclusive to that mode. I suppose they could add another currency and a War Store (fun to say). That may come with a rebalancing of the Rewards.
    But who says it has to be "exclusive" to AQ? Add it to AW, and keep the store the same. There's no reason this can't be done, and it's a win/win scenario.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★
    Vdh2008 said:

    Vdh2008 said:

    Why not just ADD Glory to the AW side of things? Each war we could get a decent amount of Glory to save or spend on whatever we like... If that was the case, these trash rewards would actually balance out.

    One reason I could think is that Glory is a byproduct of AQ, exclusive to that mode. I suppose they could add another currency and a War Store (fun to say). That may come with a rebalancing of the Rewards.
    But who says it has to be "exclusive" to AQ? Add it to AW, and keep the store the same. There's no reason this can't be done, and it's a win/win scenario.
    Not necessarily, no. Then you have to look at how much is given in both systems overall, and balance that. It becomes more complicated. Usually when something is exclusive to one game mode, it's best to keep it within that game mode.
  • Vdh2008Vdh2008 Posts: 913 ★★★★

    Vdh2008 said:

    Vdh2008 said:

    Why not just ADD Glory to the AW side of things? Each war we could get a decent amount of Glory to save or spend on whatever we like... If that was the case, these trash rewards would actually balance out.

    One reason I could think is that Glory is a byproduct of AQ, exclusive to that mode. I suppose they could add another currency and a War Store (fun to say). That may come with a rebalancing of the Rewards.
    But who says it has to be "exclusive" to AQ? Add it to AW, and keep the store the same. There's no reason this can't be done, and it's a win/win scenario.
    Not necessarily, no. Then you have to look at how much is given in both systems overall, and balance that. It becomes more complicated. Usually when something is exclusive to one game mode, it's best to keep it within that game mode.
    Agree to disagree I guess.

    The more control WE have over what rewards we get, the better the game is for all. As it stands now, even with this rewards "refresh", the effort/reward ratio is skewed badly, and even some rewards are heavily "balanced" by RNG. Having access to Glory in AW changes those things.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★
    Vdh2008 said:

    Vdh2008 said:

    Vdh2008 said:

    Why not just ADD Glory to the AW side of things? Each war we could get a decent amount of Glory to save or spend on whatever we like... If that was the case, these trash rewards would actually balance out.

    One reason I could think is that Glory is a byproduct of AQ, exclusive to that mode. I suppose they could add another currency and a War Store (fun to say). That may come with a rebalancing of the Rewards.
    But who says it has to be "exclusive" to AQ? Add it to AW, and keep the store the same. There's no reason this can't be done, and it's a win/win scenario.
    Not necessarily, no. Then you have to look at how much is given in both systems overall, and balance that. It becomes more complicated. Usually when something is exclusive to one game mode, it's best to keep it within that game mode.
    Agree to disagree I guess.

    The more control WE have over what rewards we get, the better the game is for all. As it stands now, even with this rewards "refresh", the effort/reward ratio is skewed badly, and even some rewards are heavily "balanced" by RNG. Having access to Glory in AW changes those things.
    Which is why I suggested the currency already in use in War, Loyalty. Adding Items to the Loyalty Store and adding more Loyalty in the Rewards allows total choice. You can choose to save it for AQ, or buy more Rewards. It's a much easier way to add that factor without having to rebalance both systems combined. There's more to Rewards balancing than just adding more.
  • DarkestDestroyerDarkestDestroyer Posts: 2,526 ★★★★

    It’s a shame that the rewards for the absolute top alliances are ridiculously insane, yeah it makes sense, as in the top and best should get the best, but everyone knows they get into tons of shifty things and just get away with it; rewarded with ridiculous amounts.

    Such a shame.

    Those are definitely not insane considering what it takes to finish there at all
    Dude the manipulate the wars, it’s a breeze for them, they don’t get their own resources like we all do, they have arena grinders playing for them to get new champs.

    Anything else?
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 2,027 ★★★★

    It’s a shame that the rewards for the absolute top alliances are ridiculously insane, yeah it makes sense, as in the top and best should get the best, but everyone knows they get into tons of shifty things and just get away with it; rewarded with ridiculous amounts.

    Such a shame.

    Those are definitely not insane considering what it takes to finish there at all
    Dude the manipulate the wars, it’s a breeze for them, they don’t get their own resources like we all do, they have arena grinders playing for them to get new champs.

    Anything else?
    First, who is them and we? I play in T1 currently and the lowest I've played for quite a while now is T3.

    Has some very shady stuff happened at the top throughout the seasons? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean that everyone playing in the upper tiers of war are doing shady stuff.

    We didn't tank or face a single tanking alliance all last off season even.
  • AleorAleor Posts: 1,226 ★★★
    What about any enhancement for lower tiers? 10+ fills to boring imo, and there are as lot of people down here
  • LormifLormif Posts: 3,670 ★★★★
    Kobster84 said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Eric987 said:

    What they really need to do is double the 5* and 6* shards and shrink the range of outcomes in the seasons crystals. With the new 5* and 6* gates in Act 6, increasing the availability of 5* and 6* shards is important. This would make AW the place to go for shards and AQ the place to go for rank up materials. If they made those changes I’d be much more excited for next AW season. I’m currently in the master bracket so my thoughts are really focused on end game players. Unless the rewards for winning a war go extremely up I feel Kabam lowballed us on the rewards which sucks since I prefer this map to the old one for sure.

    AW is already the place to go for shards, and the top rank already gets a full 6*.
    One 6* for a 1st place season finish isn't really THAT much though. Now if that was the master reward in general, I'd be more on board with that
    Dude that is a metric a** load., every 3 weeks they get a 6* in addition to their other rewards. As it is master gets more than half a 6*
    100% wrong. one 6* every 6 weeks for the siNGLE top ally is a joke. Save your units and you'll get more 6* champs from popping Cavs.
    at a 1% drop rate no you will not. You are 100% wrong.
    That’s master rank 1 though like even for master it drops down to 5.5k shards
    The dude was talking about master so I replied about master.

    Evens still 6k shards (assuming 5* dupes for master 1 is not unreasonable) is still a lot of shards. It is still vastly more than any other content in the game will give you.
  • GreywardenGreywarden Posts: 514 ★★★

    Lormif said:


    AND? Over time you will vastly out pace him. You cannot look at one event and say, well this isnt right, you have to look over the course of many events and see how the standard distribution works.

    Throw in 2 more seasons of gold 1 with those 2 seasons of platinum 1 and my T2AC pulls from war crystals are stull under 73K total T2AC shards. 3 war season crystals from 1 season > 21 war season crystals from 5 seasons.

    To be fair, war season crystals aren't the only RNG apsect of the game that take variable-ratio reinforcement to Vegas slot machine levels. A current alliance mate pulled 10K+ T5BC fragments in 21 Map 7 crystals from our last cycle of 7X5. We've run 7X5 every cycle since Map 7 was introduced except for the cycle of bugged Can't Stop Won't Stop. It took me at least 8 cycles of 7X5 to pull 10K+ T5BC fragments from Map 7 crystals. We get 25 Map 7 crystals per AQ cycle, so my alliance mate pulled more T5BC fragments from 21 Map 7 crystals than I did from 200+ Map 7 crystals. I've never pulled more than 4K+/<5K T5BC fragments from 1 AQ cycle of Map 7 crystals. Unlike war season crystal RNG, AQ RNG isn't that annoying because 7X5 can be explored with little to no item use and stress.</p>
    My personal record is 5 weeks with zero t5b from map 7 crystals.

  • DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Posts: 2,777 ★★★★★


    My personal record is 5 weeks with zero t5b from map 7 crystals.

    That’s brutal @Greywarden. I thought I had back luck going three weeks of 7X5 with 0 T5B from Map 7 crystals.
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★

    @Kabam Miike you were interested in the differences between aq and aw.

    AQ is better—time and resource wise, as well as reward wise—than AW.

    Look at it this way:



    AQ has almost no current issues except the cost of map 7, pretty much. It’s much more flexible, so if your alliance wants to take a break for a week, they can jump back in the next week. I think AW is at a breaking point right now, where every war is do or die and the season is long enough to warrant game changing rewards.

    A solution is drastic.

    Completely revamp the loyalty store. It’s mostly dated, and no one wants an unstoppable colossus. Put potions, revives, and rainbow boosts in there every day, with the 3 minute boosts rotating. 4, 5, and 6 star shards should be available for appropriate amounts based on how much loyalty is given out. The intended structure would be: get what you need for aw, and if you’ve got extra, here’s some shards for not dying.

    Shorten Seasons— A Lot Probably should be a week and a half or so. 10 days is enough for 5 wars, and it’s also just long enough for a burnt out alliance to recoup. It’s also not so long that people get bored, or the rewards are to big to miss out on. The rewards would be proportionately less, which would take out the feeling of toxic competition and leave you with a more “ah, we’ll get em next time” feeling.

    Pay out the rewards in tiers So this one is sort of a 2 steps forward, one step back type thing. Rewards are sorted by tiers (master, platinum, gold, etc) and put into crystals. Because of the rng, you’d be given more crystals than if they were a flat rate. There’s no “lose” in the crystals—every drop is a comparable value to the other. (Ex: 1000 6*shards, 5000 5* shards, 1/10 of a t5b) The values will no doubt need tuning based on community feedback, but the idea is there.

    The way rewards will look is going to be different for sure. Ex. Plat 1: 50x plat crystals, 200k loyalty
    Plat 2: 35x plat crystals, 175k loyalty etc. This gives more choice (loyalty store) and the ability to save crystals until you’re not in overflow of anything.

    TL;DR read the bold points

    I agree with most of this but to be objective AW does have a fairly decent gold payout compared to AQ. Especially if doing map 6 and 7.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★

    @Kabam Miike you were interested in the differences between aq and aw.

    AQ is better—time and resource wise, as well as reward wise—than AW.

    Look at it this way:



    AQ has almost no current issues except the cost of map 7, pretty much. It’s much more flexible, so if your alliance wants to take a break for a week, they can jump back in the next week. I think AW is at a breaking point right now, where every war is do or die and the season is long enough to warrant game changing rewards.

    A solution is drastic.

    Completely revamp the loyalty store. It’s mostly dated, and no one wants an unstoppable colossus. Put potions, revives, and rainbow boosts in there every day, with the 3 minute boosts rotating. 4, 5, and 6 star shards should be available for appropriate amounts based on how much loyalty is given out. The intended structure would be: get what you need for aw, and if you’ve got extra, here’s some shards for not dying.

    Shorten Seasons— A Lot Probably should be a week and a half or so. 10 days is enough for 5 wars, and it’s also just long enough for a burnt out alliance to recoup. It’s also not so long that people get bored, or the rewards are to big to miss out on. The rewards would be proportionately less, which would take out the feeling of toxic competition and leave you with a more “ah, we’ll get em next time” feeling.

    Pay out the rewards in tiers So this one is sort of a 2 steps forward, one step back type thing. Rewards are sorted by tiers (master, platinum, gold, etc) and put into crystals. Because of the rng, you’d be given more crystals than if they were a flat rate. There’s no “lose” in the crystals—every drop is a comparable value to the other. (Ex: 1000 6*shards, 5000 5* shards, 1/10 of a t5b) The values will no doubt need tuning based on community feedback, but the idea is there.

    The way rewards will look is going to be different for sure. Ex. Plat 1: 50x plat crystals, 200k loyalty
    Plat 2: 35x plat crystals, 175k loyalty etc. This gives more choice (loyalty store) and the ability to save crystals until you’re not in overflow of anything.

    TL;DR read the bold points

    Not sure I can agree with shortening Seasons. They've already been shortened from their original format. One of the reasons the Rewards are as significant as they are is because of the length of Seasons. If we chop it down too much, there's not much left to call a Season, or a competition for that matter. Especially 10 days. Too low IMO.
  • Mitchell35Mitchell35 Posts: 1,900 Guardian

    @Kabam Miike you were interested in the differences between aq and aw.

    AQ is better—time and resource wise, as well as reward wise—than AW.

    Look at it this way:



    AQ has almost no current issues except the cost of map 7, pretty much. It’s much more flexible, so if your alliance wants to take a break for a week, they can jump back in the next week. I think AW is at a breaking point right now, where every war is do or die and the season is long enough to warrant game changing rewards.

    A solution is drastic.

    Completely revamp the loyalty store. It’s mostly dated, and no one wants an unstoppable colossus. Put potions, revives, and rainbow boosts in there every day, with the 3 minute boosts rotating. 4, 5, and 6 star shards should be available for appropriate amounts based on how much loyalty is given out. The intended structure would be: get what you need for aw, and if you’ve got extra, here’s some shards for not dying.

    Shorten Seasons— A Lot Probably should be a week and a half or so. 10 days is enough for 5 wars, and it’s also just long enough for a burnt out alliance to recoup. It’s also not so long that people get bored, or the rewards are to big to miss out on. The rewards would be proportionately less, which would take out the feeling of toxic competition and leave you with a more “ah, we’ll get em next time” feeling.

    Pay out the rewards in tiers So this one is sort of a 2 steps forward, one step back type thing. Rewards are sorted by tiers (master, platinum, gold, etc) and put into crystals. Because of the rng, you’d be given more crystals than if they were a flat rate. There’s no “lose” in the crystals—every drop is a comparable value to the other. (Ex: 1000 6*shards, 5000 5* shards, 1/10 of a t5b) The values will no doubt need tuning based on community feedback, but the idea is there.

    The way rewards will look is going to be different for sure. Ex. Plat 1: 50x plat crystals, 200k loyalty
    Plat 2: 35x plat crystals, 175k loyalty etc. This gives more choice (loyalty store) and the ability to save crystals until you’re not in overflow of anything.

    TL;DR read the bold points

    Not sure I can agree with shortening Seasons. They've already been shortened from their original format. One of the reasons the Rewards are as significant as they are is because of the length of Seasons. If we chop it down too much, there's not much left to call a Season, or a competition for that matter. Especially 10 days. Too low IMO.
    That’s precisely why you would chop it down. The competition at present is stifling, and it leaves people burnt out. Cut it down and it’s no longer a big deal if your “season” got derailed. The rewards are proportional so it’s doesn’t matter in the long run if you’re fine with current rewards—they just get paid in installments.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★

    @Kabam Miike you were interested in the differences between aq and aw.

    AQ is better—time and resource wise, as well as reward wise—than AW.

    Look at it this way:



    AQ has almost no current issues except the cost of map 7, pretty much. It’s much more flexible, so if your alliance wants to take a break for a week, they can jump back in the next week. I think AW is at a breaking point right now, where every war is do or die and the season is long enough to warrant game changing rewards.

    A solution is drastic.

    Completely revamp the loyalty store. It’s mostly dated, and no one wants an unstoppable colossus. Put potions, revives, and rainbow boosts in there every day, with the 3 minute boosts rotating. 4, 5, and 6 star shards should be available for appropriate amounts based on how much loyalty is given out. The intended structure would be: get what you need for aw, and if you’ve got extra, here’s some shards for not dying.

    Shorten Seasons— A Lot Probably should be a week and a half or so. 10 days is enough for 5 wars, and it’s also just long enough for a burnt out alliance to recoup. It’s also not so long that people get bored, or the rewards are to big to miss out on. The rewards would be proportionately less, which would take out the feeling of toxic competition and leave you with a more “ah, we’ll get em next time” feeling.

    Pay out the rewards in tiers So this one is sort of a 2 steps forward, one step back type thing. Rewards are sorted by tiers (master, platinum, gold, etc) and put into crystals. Because of the rng, you’d be given more crystals than if they were a flat rate. There’s no “lose” in the crystals—every drop is a comparable value to the other. (Ex: 1000 6*shards, 5000 5* shards, 1/10 of a t5b) The values will no doubt need tuning based on community feedback, but the idea is there.

    The way rewards will look is going to be different for sure. Ex. Plat 1: 50x plat crystals, 200k loyalty
    Plat 2: 35x plat crystals, 175k loyalty etc. This gives more choice (loyalty store) and the ability to save crystals until you’re not in overflow of anything.

    TL;DR read the bold points

    Not sure I can agree with shortening Seasons. They've already been shortened from their original format. One of the reasons the Rewards are as significant as they are is because of the length of Seasons. If we chop it down too much, there's not much left to call a Season, or a competition for that matter. Especially 10 days. Too low IMO.
    That’s precisely why you would chop it down. The competition at present is stifling, and it leaves people burnt out. Cut it down and it’s no longer a big deal if your “season” got derailed. The rewards are proportional so it’s doesn’t matter in the long run if you’re fine with current rewards—they just get paid in installments.
    Cutting it down would result in less Rewards. That would go over like Granite. Lol. Besides, it's the whole point of Seasons to have enough time to gauge a competition. 10 days isn't significant enough to call a competition. There would be no point in having a Season for that little time.
  • Mitchell35Mitchell35 Posts: 1,900 Guardian

    @Kabam Miike you were interested in the differences between aq and aw.

    AQ is better—time and resource wise, as well as reward wise—than AW.

    Look at it this way:



    AQ has almost no current issues except the cost of map 7, pretty much. It’s much more flexible, so if your alliance wants to take a break for a week, they can jump back in the next week. I think AW is at a breaking point right now, where every war is do or die and the season is long enough to warrant game changing rewards.

    A solution is drastic.

    Completely revamp the loyalty store. It’s mostly dated, and no one wants an unstoppable colossus. Put potions, revives, and rainbow boosts in there every day, with the 3 minute boosts rotating. 4, 5, and 6 star shards should be available for appropriate amounts based on how much loyalty is given out. The intended structure would be: get what you need for aw, and if you’ve got extra, here’s some shards for not dying.

    Shorten Seasons— A Lot Probably should be a week and a half or so. 10 days is enough for 5 wars, and it’s also just long enough for a burnt out alliance to recoup. It’s also not so long that people get bored, or the rewards are to big to miss out on. The rewards would be proportionately less, which would take out the feeling of toxic competition and leave you with a more “ah, we’ll get em next time” feeling.

    Pay out the rewards in tiers So this one is sort of a 2 steps forward, one step back type thing. Rewards are sorted by tiers (master, platinum, gold, etc) and put into crystals. Because of the rng, you’d be given more crystals than if they were a flat rate. There’s no “lose” in the crystals—every drop is a comparable value to the other. (Ex: 1000 6*shards, 5000 5* shards, 1/10 of a t5b) The values will no doubt need tuning based on community feedback, but the idea is there.

    The way rewards will look is going to be different for sure. Ex. Plat 1: 50x plat crystals, 200k loyalty
    Plat 2: 35x plat crystals, 175k loyalty etc. This gives more choice (loyalty store) and the ability to save crystals until you’re not in overflow of anything.

    TL;DR read the bold points

    Not sure I can agree with shortening Seasons. They've already been shortened from their original format. One of the reasons the Rewards are as significant as they are is because of the length of Seasons. If we chop it down too much, there's not much left to call a Season, or a competition for that matter. Especially 10 days. Too low IMO.
    That’s precisely why you would chop it down. The competition at present is stifling, and it leaves people burnt out. Cut it down and it’s no longer a big deal if your “season” got derailed. The rewards are proportional so it’s doesn’t matter in the long run if you’re fine with current rewards—they just get paid in installments.
    Cutting it down would result in less Rewards. That would go over like Granite. Lol. Besides, it's the whole point of Seasons to have enough time to gauge a competition. 10 days isn't significant enough to call a competition. There would be no point in having a Season for that little time.
    I modeled the changes after AQ, which only needs 5 days to establish who should get which rewards. I’d say that works pretty well. Of course the rewards would be less, but proportionately so, so that no rewards would be lost in the long run. It would still be competitive, but healthy, a la AQ
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★

    @Kabam Miike you were interested in the differences between aq and aw.

    AQ is better—time and resource wise, as well as reward wise—than AW.

    Look at it this way:



    AQ has almost no current issues except the cost of map 7, pretty much. It’s much more flexible, so if your alliance wants to take a break for a week, they can jump back in the next week. I think AW is at a breaking point right now, where every war is do or die and the season is long enough to warrant game changing rewards.

    A solution is drastic.

    Completely revamp the loyalty store. It’s mostly dated, and no one wants an unstoppable colossus. Put potions, revives, and rainbow boosts in there every day, with the 3 minute boosts rotating. 4, 5, and 6 star shards should be available for appropriate amounts based on how much loyalty is given out. The intended structure would be: get what you need for aw, and if you’ve got extra, here’s some shards for not dying.

    Shorten Seasons— A Lot Probably should be a week and a half or so. 10 days is enough for 5 wars, and it’s also just long enough for a burnt out alliance to recoup. It’s also not so long that people get bored, or the rewards are to big to miss out on. The rewards would be proportionately less, which would take out the feeling of toxic competition and leave you with a more “ah, we’ll get em next time” feeling.

    Pay out the rewards in tiers So this one is sort of a 2 steps forward, one step back type thing. Rewards are sorted by tiers (master, platinum, gold, etc) and put into crystals. Because of the rng, you’d be given more crystals than if they were a flat rate. There’s no “lose” in the crystals—every drop is a comparable value to the other. (Ex: 1000 6*shards, 5000 5* shards, 1/10 of a t5b) The values will no doubt need tuning based on community feedback, but the idea is there.

    The way rewards will look is going to be different for sure. Ex. Plat 1: 50x plat crystals, 200k loyalty
    Plat 2: 35x plat crystals, 175k loyalty etc. This gives more choice (loyalty store) and the ability to save crystals until you’re not in overflow of anything.

    TL;DR read the bold points

    Not sure I can agree with shortening Seasons. They've already been shortened from their original format. One of the reasons the Rewards are as significant as they are is because of the length of Seasons. If we chop it down too much, there's not much left to call a Season, or a competition for that matter. Especially 10 days. Too low IMO.
    That’s precisely why you would chop it down. The competition at present is stifling, and it leaves people burnt out. Cut it down and it’s no longer a big deal if your “season” got derailed. The rewards are proportional so it’s doesn’t matter in the long run if you’re fine with current rewards—they just get paid in installments.
    Cutting it down would result in less Rewards. That would go over like Granite. Lol. Besides, it's the whole point of Seasons to have enough time to gauge a competition. 10 days isn't significant enough to call a competition. There would be no point in having a Season for that little time.
    I modeled the changes after AQ, which only needs 5 days to establish who should get which rewards. I’d say that works pretty well. Of course the rewards would be less, but proportionately so, so that no rewards would be lost in the long run. It would still be competitive, but healthy, a la AQ
    That's just it. They're two totally different game modes. They're not really connected, and War is an interactive competition between Allies. I'm not sure where the comparison came along, perhaps because some are focusing more on AQ. However, they're two totally different structures that aren't meant to be mirrored or comparable.
  • QuikPikQuikPik Posts: 209 ★★
    And what about prestige based match making? Should we just get used to the 15m alliances in plat3 that never played the 25m alliances that are all sitting in Gold 1? Due to your new system, you have alliances that are probably 2 tiers higher than they normally should be.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★
    QuikPik said:

    And what about prestige based match making? Should we just get used to the 15m alliances in plat3 that never played the 25m alliances that are all sitting in Gold 1? Due to your new system, you have alliances that are probably 2 tiers higher than they normally should be.

    If 25 M Allies are sitting in Gold 1, that's because they haven't won their own Wars to go up. Not because 15 M Allies are in Plat 3.
  • Mitchell35Mitchell35 Posts: 1,900 Guardian

    @Kabam Miike you were interested in the differences between aq and aw.

    AQ is better—time and resource wise, as well as reward wise—than AW.

    Look at it this way:



    AQ has almost no current issues except the cost of map 7, pretty much. It’s much more flexible, so if your alliance wants to take a break for a week, they can jump back in the next week. I think AW is at a breaking point right now, where every war is do or die and the season is long enough to warrant game changing rewards.

    A solution is drastic.

    Completely revamp the loyalty store. It’s mostly dated, and no one wants an unstoppable colossus. Put potions, revives, and rainbow boosts in there every day, with the 3 minute boosts rotating. 4, 5, and 6 star shards should be available for appropriate amounts based on how much loyalty is given out. The intended structure would be: get what you need for aw, and if you’ve got extra, here’s some shards for not dying.

    Shorten Seasons— A Lot Probably should be a week and a half or so. 10 days is enough for 5 wars, and it’s also just long enough for a burnt out alliance to recoup. It’s also not so long that people get bored, or the rewards are to big to miss out on. The rewards would be proportionately less, which would take out the feeling of toxic competition and leave you with a more “ah, we’ll get em next time” feeling.

    Pay out the rewards in tiers So this one is sort of a 2 steps forward, one step back type thing. Rewards are sorted by tiers (master, platinum, gold, etc) and put into crystals. Because of the rng, you’d be given more crystals than if they were a flat rate. There’s no “lose” in the crystals—every drop is a comparable value to the other. (Ex: 1000 6*shards, 5000 5* shards, 1/10 of a t5b) The values will no doubt need tuning based on community feedback, but the idea is there.

    The way rewards will look is going to be different for sure. Ex. Plat 1: 50x plat crystals, 200k loyalty
    Plat 2: 35x plat crystals, 175k loyalty etc. This gives more choice (loyalty store) and the ability to save crystals until you’re not in overflow of anything.

    TL;DR read the bold points

    Not sure I can agree with shortening Seasons. They've already been shortened from their original format. One of the reasons the Rewards are as significant as they are is because of the length of Seasons. If we chop it down too much, there's not much left to call a Season, or a competition for that matter. Especially 10 days. Too low IMO.
    That’s precisely why you would chop it down. The competition at present is stifling, and it leaves people burnt out. Cut it down and it’s no longer a big deal if your “season” got derailed. The rewards are proportional so it’s doesn’t matter in the long run if you’re fine with current rewards—they just get paid in installments.
    Cutting it down would result in less Rewards. That would go over like Granite. Lol. Besides, it's the whole point of Seasons to have enough time to gauge a competition. 10 days isn't significant enough to call a competition. There would be no point in having a Season for that little time.
    I modeled the changes after AQ, which only needs 5 days to establish who should get which rewards. I’d say that works pretty well. Of course the rewards would be less, but proportionately so, so that no rewards would be lost in the long run. It would still be competitive, but healthy, a la AQ
    That's just it. They're two totally different game modes. They're not really connected, and War is an interactive competition between Allies. I'm not sure where the comparison came along, perhaps because some are focusing more on AQ. However, they're two totally different structures that aren't meant to be mirrored or comparable.
    But maybe they should be comparable. AQ just works better than war, so it would make sense to imitate it. AW still has the placement strategy, the new global node choices, etc. The only thing mirrored with a shorter season is the flexibility and timeframe.
  • QuikPikQuikPik Posts: 209 ★★
    Don't make comments before you look at the leaderboard. Those alliances are there because they only play other alliances in their prestige range regardless of war rating. Yes that 15m alliance earned their current points by winning against other 15m alliances ~ 6500 prestige range. Not once are they matched up against tier 4/5 opponents that have much higher prestige.

    There's currently a 13m alliance that is top 20 in Gold 1. You can say with a straight face that they are the #320 best alliance at war.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★
    edited July 12

    @Kabam Miike you were interested in the differences between aq and aw.

    AQ is better—time and resource wise, as well as reward wise—than AW.

    Look at it this way:



    AQ has almost no current issues except the cost of map 7, pretty much. It’s much more flexible, so if your alliance wants to take a break for a week, they can jump back in the next week. I think AW is at a breaking point right now, where every war is do or die and the season is long enough to warrant game changing rewards.

    A solution is drastic.

    Completely revamp the loyalty store. It’s mostly dated, and no one wants an unstoppable colossus. Put potions, revives, and rainbow boosts in there every day, with the 3 minute boosts rotating. 4, 5, and 6 star shards should be available for appropriate amounts based on how much loyalty is given out. The intended structure would be: get what you need for aw, and if you’ve got extra, here’s some shards for not dying.

    Shorten Seasons— A Lot Probably should be a week and a half or so. 10 days is enough for 5 wars, and it’s also just long enough for a burnt out alliance to recoup. It’s also not so long that people get bored, or the rewards are to big to miss out on. The rewards would be proportionately less, which would take out the feeling of toxic competition and leave you with a more “ah, we’ll get em next time” feeling.

    Pay out the rewards in tiers So this one is sort of a 2 steps forward, one step back type thing. Rewards are sorted by tiers (master, platinum, gold, etc) and put into crystals. Because of the rng, you’d be given more crystals than if they were a flat rate. There’s no “lose” in the crystals—every drop is a comparable value to the other. (Ex: 1000 6*shards, 5000 5* shards, 1/10 of a t5b) The values will no doubt need tuning based on community feedback, but the idea is there.

    The way rewards will look is going to be different for sure. Ex. Plat 1: 50x plat crystals, 200k loyalty
    Plat 2: 35x plat crystals, 175k loyalty etc. This gives more choice (loyalty store) and the ability to save crystals until you’re not in overflow of anything.

    TL;DR read the bold points

    Not sure I can agree with shortening Seasons. They've already been shortened from their original format. One of the reasons the Rewards are as significant as they are is because of the length of Seasons. If we chop it down too much, there's not much left to call a Season, or a competition for that matter. Especially 10 days. Too low IMO.
    That’s precisely why you would chop it down. The competition at present is stifling, and it leaves people burnt out. Cut it down and it’s no longer a big deal if your “season” got derailed. The rewards are proportional so it’s doesn’t matter in the long run if you’re fine with current rewards—they just get paid in installments.
    Cutting it down would result in less Rewards. That would go over like Granite. Lol. Besides, it's the whole point of Seasons to have enough time to gauge a competition. 10 days isn't significant enough to call a competition. There would be no point in having a Season for that little time.
    I modeled the changes after AQ, which only needs 5 days to establish who should get which rewards. I’d say that works pretty well. Of course the rewards would be less, but proportionately so, so that no rewards would be lost in the long run. It would still be competitive, but healthy, a la AQ
    That's just it. They're two totally different game modes. They're not really connected, and War is an interactive competition between Allies. I'm not sure where the comparison came along, perhaps because some are focusing more on AQ. However, they're two totally different structures that aren't meant to be mirrored or comparable.
    But maybe they should be comparable. AQ just works better than war, so it would make sense to imitate it. AW still has the placement strategy, the new global node choices, etc. The only thing mirrored with a shorter season is the flexibility and timeframe.
    AQ works better than War because there are very little variables. Same Maps every week, 5 days a week. There's a rotation, but it's pretty much lather, rinse, repeat.
    War is a different entity with many moving parts. Seasons are competitions within the War Meta that gauge how Alliances place based on the Points they accumulate from start to finish. The length of time is a part of the competition. Two weeks is not really a Season. There's only so much you can shorten it before it just becomes a snapshot rather than a competition.
    There really is no way to coincide both systems to encourage people to play competitively at the top within both, that doesn't involve stress. That just comes with going that hard in both. Not without completely reworking both systems and intertwining them, with paced Rewards on both sides. I'm afraid that's moving backwards from the progress that's already being made. Both systems are such that Alliances receive Rewards for how much they do. If an Ally wants to focus on 5x7, that's up to them. They can try to run Top Tier Wars at the same time, but the risk of burnout is always there. Some are fine with it. Others find it too much. Both systems aren't really meant to be equally as enticing. The goal of Wars isn't to pull people away from AQ. War is a competition. Seasons are competitions within that competition. AQ is just a Points tally based on who runs what.
  • Mitchell35Mitchell35 Posts: 1,900 Guardian

    @Kabam Miike you were interested in the differences between aq and aw.

    AQ is better—time and resource wise, as well as reward wise—than AW.

    Look at it this way:



    AQ has almost no current issues except the cost of map 7, pretty much. It’s much more flexible, so if your alliance wants to take a break for a week, they can jump back in the next week. I think AW is at a breaking point right now, where every war is do or die and the season is long enough to warrant game changing rewards.

    A solution is drastic.

    Completely revamp the loyalty store. It’s mostly dated, and no one wants an unstoppable colossus. Put potions, revives, and rainbow boosts in there every day, with the 3 minute boosts rotating. 4, 5, and 6 star shards should be available for appropriate amounts based on how much loyalty is given out. The intended structure would be: get what you need for aw, and if you’ve got extra, here’s some shards for not dying.

    Shorten Seasons— A Lot Probably should be a week and a half or so. 10 days is enough for 5 wars, and it’s also just long enough for a burnt out alliance to recoup. It’s also not so long that people get bored, or the rewards are to big to miss out on. The rewards would be proportionately less, which would take out the feeling of toxic competition and leave you with a more “ah, we’ll get em next time” feeling.

    Pay out the rewards in tiers So this one is sort of a 2 steps forward, one step back type thing. Rewards are sorted by tiers (master, platinum, gold, etc) and put into crystals. Because of the rng, you’d be given more crystals than if they were a flat rate. There’s no “lose” in the crystals—every drop is a comparable value to the other. (Ex: 1000 6*shards, 5000 5* shards, 1/10 of a t5b) The values will no doubt need tuning based on community feedback, but the idea is there.

    The way rewards will look is going to be different for sure. Ex. Plat 1: 50x plat crystals, 200k loyalty
    Plat 2: 35x plat crystals, 175k loyalty etc. This gives more choice (loyalty store) and the ability to save crystals until you’re not in overflow of anything.

    TL;DR read the bold points

    Not sure I can agree with shortening Seasons. They've already been shortened from their original format. One of the reasons the Rewards are as significant as they are is because of the length of Seasons. If we chop it down too much, there's not much left to call a Season, or a competition for that matter. Especially 10 days. Too low IMO.
    That’s precisely why you would chop it down. The competition at present is stifling, and it leaves people burnt out. Cut it down and it’s no longer a big deal if your “season” got derailed. The rewards are proportional so it’s doesn’t matter in the long run if you’re fine with current rewards—they just get paid in installments.
    Cutting it down would result in less Rewards. That would go over like Granite. Lol. Besides, it's the whole point of Seasons to have enough time to gauge a competition. 10 days isn't significant enough to call a competition. There would be no point in having a Season for that little time.
    I modeled the changes after AQ, which only needs 5 days to establish who should get which rewards. I’d say that works pretty well. Of course the rewards would be less, but proportionately so, so that no rewards would be lost in the long run. It would still be competitive, but healthy, a la AQ
    That's just it. They're two totally different game modes. They're not really connected, and War is an interactive competition between Allies. I'm not sure where the comparison came along, perhaps because some are focusing more on AQ. However, they're two totally different structures that aren't meant to be mirrored or comparable.
    But maybe they should be comparable. AQ just works better than war, so it would make sense to imitate it. AW still has the placement strategy, the new global node choices, etc. The only thing mirrored with a shorter season is the flexibility and timeframe.
    AQ works better than War because there are very little variables. Same Maps every week, 5 days a week. There's a rotation, but it's pretty much lather, rinse, repeat.
    War is a different entity with many moving parts. Seasons are competitions within the War Meta that gauge how Alliances place based on the Points they accumulate from start to finish. The length of time is a part of the competition. Two weeks is not really a Season. There's only so much you can shorten it before it just becomes a snapshot rather than a competition.
    There really is no way to coincide both systems to encourage people to play competitively at the top within both, that doesn't involve stress. That just comes with going that hard in both. Not without completely reworking both systems and intertwining them, with paced Rewards on both sides. I'm afraid that's moving backwards from the progress that's already being made. Both systems are such that Alliances receive Rewards for how much they do. If an Ally wants to focus on 5x7, that's up to them. They can try to run Top Tier Wars at the same time, but the risk of burnout is always there. Some are fine with it. Others find it too much. Both systems aren't really meant to be equally as enticing. The goal of Wars isn't to pull people away from AQ. War is a competition. Seasons are competitions within that competition. AQ is just a Points tally based on who runs what.
    I really think we could go on for a long time with this, so let’s just stop here and agree to disagree. (Read: truce?) :tongue:
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★

    @Kabam Miike you were interested in the differences between aq and aw.

    AQ is better—time and resource wise, as well as reward wise—than AW.

    Look at it this way:



    AQ has almost no current issues except the cost of map 7, pretty much. It’s much more flexible, so if your alliance wants to take a break for a week, they can jump back in the next week. I think AW is at a breaking point right now, where every war is do or die and the season is long enough to warrant game changing rewards.

    A solution is drastic.

    Completely revamp the loyalty store. It’s mostly dated, and no one wants an unstoppable colossus. Put potions, revives, and rainbow boosts in there every day, with the 3 minute boosts rotating. 4, 5, and 6 star shards should be available for appropriate amounts based on how much loyalty is given out. The intended structure would be: get what you need for aw, and if you’ve got extra, here’s some shards for not dying.

    Shorten Seasons— A Lot Probably should be a week and a half or so. 10 days is enough for 5 wars, and it’s also just long enough for a burnt out alliance to recoup. It’s also not so long that people get bored, or the rewards are to big to miss out on. The rewards would be proportionately less, which would take out the feeling of toxic competition and leave you with a more “ah, we’ll get em next time” feeling.

    Pay out the rewards in tiers So this one is sort of a 2 steps forward, one step back type thing. Rewards are sorted by tiers (master, platinum, gold, etc) and put into crystals. Because of the rng, you’d be given more crystals than if they were a flat rate. There’s no “lose” in the crystals—every drop is a comparable value to the other. (Ex: 1000 6*shards, 5000 5* shards, 1/10 of a t5b) The values will no doubt need tuning based on community feedback, but the idea is there.

    The way rewards will look is going to be different for sure. Ex. Plat 1: 50x plat crystals, 200k loyalty
    Plat 2: 35x plat crystals, 175k loyalty etc. This gives more choice (loyalty store) and the ability to save crystals until you’re not in overflow of anything.

    TL;DR read the bold points

    Not sure I can agree with shortening Seasons. They've already been shortened from their original format. One of the reasons the Rewards are as significant as they are is because of the length of Seasons. If we chop it down too much, there's not much left to call a Season, or a competition for that matter. Especially 10 days. Too low IMO.
    That’s precisely why you would chop it down. The competition at present is stifling, and it leaves people burnt out. Cut it down and it’s no longer a big deal if your “season” got derailed. The rewards are proportional so it’s doesn’t matter in the long run if you’re fine with current rewards—they just get paid in installments.
    Cutting it down would result in less Rewards. That would go over like Granite. Lol. Besides, it's the whole point of Seasons to have enough time to gauge a competition. 10 days isn't significant enough to call a competition. There would be no point in having a Season for that little time.
    I modeled the changes after AQ, which only needs 5 days to establish who should get which rewards. I’d say that works pretty well. Of course the rewards would be less, but proportionately so, so that no rewards would be lost in the long run. It would still be competitive, but healthy, a la AQ
    That's just it. They're two totally different game modes. They're not really connected, and War is an interactive competition between Allies. I'm not sure where the comparison came along, perhaps because some are focusing more on AQ. However, they're two totally different structures that aren't meant to be mirrored or comparable.
    But maybe they should be comparable. AQ just works better than war, so it would make sense to imitate it. AW still has the placement strategy, the new global node choices, etc. The only thing mirrored with a shorter season is the flexibility and timeframe.
    AQ works better than War because there are very little variables. Same Maps every week, 5 days a week. There's a rotation, but it's pretty much lather, rinse, repeat.
    War is a different entity with many moving parts. Seasons are competitions within the War Meta that gauge how Alliances place based on the Points they accumulate from start to finish. The length of time is a part of the competition. Two weeks is not really a Season. There's only so much you can shorten it before it just becomes a snapshot rather than a competition.
    There really is no way to coincide both systems to encourage people to play competitively at the top within both, that doesn't involve stress. That just comes with going that hard in both. Not without completely reworking both systems and intertwining them, with paced Rewards on both sides. I'm afraid that's moving backwards from the progress that's already being made. Both systems are such that Alliances receive Rewards for how much they do. If an Ally wants to focus on 5x7, that's up to them. They can try to run Top Tier Wars at the same time, but the risk of burnout is always there. Some are fine with it. Others find it too much. Both systems aren't really meant to be equally as enticing. The goal of Wars isn't to pull people away from AQ. War is a competition. Seasons are competitions within that competition. AQ is just a Points tally based on who runs what.
    I really think we could go on for a long time with this, so let’s just stop here and agree to disagree. (Read: truce?) :tongue:
    No worries. No need for a truce. Debate isn't personal for me. Just discussing ideas. :)
  • KaspyKaspy Posts: 52 ★★

    @Kabam Miike you were interested in the differences between aq and aw.

    AQ is better—time and resource wise, as well as reward wise—than AW.

    Look at it this way:



    AQ has almost no current issues except the cost of map 7, pretty much. It’s much more flexible, so if your alliance wants to take a break for a week, they can jump back in the next week. I think AW is at a breaking point right now, where every war is do or die and the season is long enough to warrant game changing rewards.

    A solution is drastic.

    Completely revamp the loyalty store. It’s mostly dated, and no one wants an unstoppable colossus. Put potions, revives, and rainbow boosts in there every day, with the 3 minute boosts rotating. 4, 5, and 6 star shards should be available for appropriate amounts based on how much loyalty is given out. The intended structure would be: get what you need for aw, and if you’ve got extra, here’s some shards for not dying.

    Shorten Seasons— A Lot Probably should be a week and a half or so. 10 days is enough for 5 wars, and it’s also just long enough for a burnt out alliance to recoup. It’s also not so long that people get bored, or the rewards are to big to miss out on. The rewards would be proportionately less, which would take out the feeling of toxic competition and leave you with a more “ah, we’ll get em next time” feeling.

    Pay out the rewards in tiers So this one is sort of a 2 steps forward, one step back type thing. Rewards are sorted by tiers (master, platinum, gold, etc) and put into crystals. Because of the rng, you’d be given more crystals than if they were a flat rate. There’s no “lose” in the crystals—every drop is a comparable value to the other. (Ex: 1000 6*shards, 5000 5* shards, 1/10 of a t5b) The values will no doubt need tuning based on community feedback, but the idea is there.

    The way rewards will look is going to be different for sure. Ex. Plat 1: 50x plat crystals, 200k loyalty
    Plat 2: 35x plat crystals, 175k loyalty etc. This gives more choice (loyalty store) and the ability to save crystals until you’re not in overflow of anything.

    TL;DR read the bold points

    Not sure I can agree with shortening Seasons. They've already been shortened from their original format. One of the reasons the Rewards are as significant as they are is because of the length of Seasons. If we chop it down too much, there's not much left to call a Season, or a competition for that matter. Especially 10 days. Too low IMO.
    That’s precisely why you would chop it down. The competition at present is stifling, and it leaves people burnt out. Cut it down and it’s no longer a big deal if your “season” got derailed. The rewards are proportional so it’s doesn’t matter in the long run if you’re fine with current rewards—they just get paid in installments.
    Cutting it down would result in less Rewards. That would go over like Granite. Lol. Besides, it's the whole point of Seasons to have enough time to gauge a competition. 10 days isn't significant enough to call a competition. There would be no point in having a Season for that little time.
    Doesn’t AQ more or less have a “10” day season where you get rank rewards after the cycle. According to your argument that 10 days is not long enough to gauge competition you are basically saying that AQ cycles should be greatly extended.
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