She-Hulk Heavy Speed Bug Fix [Title Edited for Clarity]

This is absolutely terrible. People ranked her for that reason only. She had a unique ability that’s absolutely not op, but of course Kabam has to nerf her...

Comments

Kabam Lyra

We appreciate the discussion and everyone's feedback about this issue and ask that you all please remain constructive in your discussions.

The team is reviewing everyone's feedback and discussing this matter but does not have any additional information to share about the fix at this time.

ThatGuyYouSaw235

R.I.P She Hulk

Dtl7714

We appreciate the discussion and everyone's feedback about this issue and ask that you all please remain constructive in your discussions.

The team is reviewing everyone's feedback and discussing this matter but does not have any additional information to share about the fix at this time.

Here is some feedback. Why dont you'll try listing known bugs,especially those being worked on in the Known Issues thread under the Bugs and Known Issues ares of the forum.

BabyMiike

Since She Hulk Was Recently Nerfed. Should We Get Compensation. Yes YES We Should This Ruins Her Play style. It's A Big Nerf We Demand Compensation. Especially for The People Who Got Her To 5/65

JohnHS

Hey everybody,

We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.

This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.

We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.

Honestly, people should get more than an apology here, Miike.

This was a specific mechanic known throughout the community for a while and a significant attribute of the champ. You guys need to be more attuned to what is happening in game and make “fixes” like this out of the gate, not months later.

I dodged this bullet and used mine at R3 for 6.2 content. But anyone who used their hard-to-get materials on her should get them back and then some.

Dr. Zola
This was not a mechanic of this Champion, and was not mentioned as one. All Champions have the same speed and cadence to their Attacks
OMG, this statement is so false, it honestly makes me cringe. Do you Kabam Devs even play this game? Just because you didn’t mention or advertise a certain mechanic, doesn’t mean it’s not intended, nor do all Champions have the same speed in attacks. For example...

1. Kabam never advertised Stealth Spider-Mans unique 7-hit combo. Is that unintended?

3. Kabam never advertised Champions with unique 6-hit combos. Are these intended?

4. Kabam never advertised Champions that can lock opponents in the corner via the heavy attack, like Dr. Octopus, Gwenpool & Hulk Ragnorak. Is this intended?

5. Kabam never advertised Champions with basic attacks that have longer or shorter range than others. Dr. Voodoo & Masacre for example, have much longer ranged light attacks than most Champions. Is this intended?

So, @Kabam Miike, it is very easy to see that your statement is completely false, & that there are a lot of different attacks & mechanics with different ranges & speeds throughout the game... that you guys never advertised or mentioned. Here are a few more...

1. X-23’s bleeds are capped at 5. Don’t recall this being mentioned or advertised.

2. Voodoo’s poisons are capped at 99. Never advertised or mentioned.

3. Killmonger & Moon Knights bleeds are capped at 1. Never advertised or mentioned.

4. Old Man Logan has the same ability as pre-nerf She-Hulk, & can chain heavys off combos. Never advertised or mentioned.

5. Kamala Khan’s nullify ability is specifically stated to nullify Armor & nothing else, but nullifys all Debuffs anyways. Never advertised or mentioned.

So your statement is false, very easy for even the simplest minds to see that. But what I’m wondering is, how are we, the players, supposed to know if She-Hulks heavy attack was intended or not? Please... I’m honestly wondering. There are so many mechanics in this game that are not mentioned nor advertised, there is no way to know. All we can do is trust that you guys are doing your job & keeping the game free of bugs, so that we can play without worrying about this. But you can’t even do that sadly, & us players keep getting screwed over because of it SMH 🤦‍♂️.

Add to that list that Psylocke's Psi-charges are capped. That's never mentioned.

mitchy231

Agreed. And honestly, having different styles, tempos, timings, etc for each champ is one thing I love about the game and keeps it interesting. If every single champ in the game behaved and acted the same way, the game would not be nearly as enjoyable.

ieatcereal

She hulk was not over powered with the functionality to chain a heavy from a light attack. She was one of the few answers to champion in 6.2 content. Now that many have ranked her up for this functionality, the change directly affects the utility we receive from these spent resources.

GroundedWisdom

I believe what he's saying is they should/strive to have it so. He also followed with suggesting if anyone sees any variations, they're free to point them out.

LeNoirFaineant

I believe what he's saying is they should/strive to have it so. He also followed with suggesting if anyone sees any variations, they're free to point them out.

@Kabam Miike I don't think Groot has the same speed and cadence as Stark Spidey. You should alert the game team.

GroundedWisdom

That one I agree with. KG has been quite buggy since his introduction. On some devices, his Specials lagged.

DNA3000

@DNA3000

I’m in agreement. Further hair-splitting can be done by PM.

Shift to another item: what are your thoughts on Miike’s statement that “all champs have the same speed and cadence to their attacks”?

Dr. Zola

I commented above upstream (https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/958580#Comment_958580) but separate from that, my general thought is that it is usually dangerous for community representatives to parrot things developers tell them. Developers generally aren't the best communicators, and they live in a bubble of jargon and context the outside world doesn't have. So anyone passing information from devs to players must be able to properly process and translate that information. I don't believe KM or the devs would deliberately lie about something so obvious, so I'm pretty sure this is an out of context remark that really should have been vetted by someone with intimate knowledge of the game mechanics and that understands the fundamentals of what players are aware of.

This happens a bit too often. I remember when I was part of the early access preview for AQ changes, and it was notable that collectively we had relatively few feedback points regarding the actual changes, and quite a few regarding how those changes were going to be communicated to the players. I think it is noteworthy how relatively few complaints there were over that update, compared to updates that were not vetted by experienced players.

If I'm wearing my game player hat, I find that statement to be inexplicable. But if I take that hat off and put my game designer hat on, I still find that statement to be inexplicable. At best it is wildly misleading, but I actually think it is far more likely to be simply an error.

Here's what I think happened. A developer told KM that the speed at which attacks could be chained together, the "cadence" of attack chains, is supposed to be the same for every champion. This is a technical statement that could actually be true, even given everything discussed in this thread, because it refers to what happens at the beginning and the end of attacks, not how fast the attacks themselves execute and it doesn't address the hold time of heavy attacks. But that could be easily paraphrased into "all champions have the same attack speed and cadence" which is now false. Attack cadence, and attack chain cadence mean two different things to me, given my experience with that kind of thing in the past.

Maybe my jargon is off here: every game developer has their own jargon. But I think something like this is very likely, and it is the result of a mangled communication process. You have to know your audience.

Dtl7714

I believe what he's saying is they should/strive to have it so. He also followed with suggesting if anyone sees any variations, they're free to point them out.
@Kabam Miike I don't think Groot has the same speed and cadence as Stark Spidey. You should alert the game team.

And with that breaking news,for those that have never played the game anyway, does that mean they will speed up Groot or slow down Sparky? And where do their speeds match up to everyone else.

Lormif

charging
It doesn’t state anywhere in quakes abilities she can indefinitely charge heavies yet its a part of her kit
It states it in her spotlight, don't worry.
@Kabam Miike

- The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.

This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.
That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"

The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.
So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right.
It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.

People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.

None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.

I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
How is it irrelevant? That’s what the bug is? You could always do it regardless of what content you were using her for. That’s what the bug is, it’s completely relevant. People then adapted that in to certain game styles and realised it suited her kit. Kabam have said that’s what was not the intended feature of her and that’s why they have changed her. Go watch some vids and come back and tell me the earliest time you can see someone chain a heavy or highlight how quick it is
In arguendo, You could always do it sure. It meant nothing because people didn't use it and she didn't have any reason to do it. It couldn’t cheese content in a way the devs would even notice. No significant number of people (or anyone for that matter) talked about it or even cared about it until 6.2 champion.

The earliest video’s highlighting combo into heavy are when 6.2 champion. Your turn. And here is Seatin in the beta unaware of the combo into heavy. https://youtu.be/R9mWN0ahKgQ

See your argument is that they are changing it because of a specific game style that references and is built around fighting the champion only. I agree that it got cheesy but it also highlights the fact that kabam only decided to act on it after they realised people were clearing end game content with it. Everyone knew she had a quick heavy, the bug is her heavy it’s not her game style or what she’s been able to do. That’s at least what we’re being told.
There may not have been vids like KT1’s who’s a god where he developed that play style but I know I was using her heavy as quick counter to get into windows that I wouldn’t have otherwise been able to with another champ. Like the thing who has a tiny window
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NlmpDYHsE0c

Not sure if there were earlier videos but I know I originally was drawn to her after her buff for her unstoppable mechanics which come through her heavy. Her heavy inputs were quick like some other mentioned champs in the thread. Not even going to pretend I had any idea of her potential or the bugs potential but as evidence for her heavy being quick and for it being used mid combo the evidence has been around. Not pretending I think this was an easy spot and except I may have exaggerated a little.
I’m pi#*ed man. Also you just killed my data dude
That’s not my argument, you’re misinterpreting and mischaracterizing my argument. The Champion highlighted the unintended combo into Heavy and caused it to come to light. Kabam had no reasonable way to know about it until people like KT1 etc highlighted it due to 6.2. (BTW KT1 made that video after seeing others do it and post it here on the forums, he’s just more well known so got the credit).

That video you shared is absent the combo into heavy tactic with all of 600 views. Why was it referenced?
i agree that the video listed doesn't really point anything out. but 6.2 was just over 2.5 months ago i believe. tons of time for summoners to have ranked up she hulk with no way to confirm is she wasn't working as intended.

once again, due to a lack of communication. that's the issue, and that's why compensation has to be the conclusion here.
What communication do you expect?
clearly you're being combative on here which you claimed in a previous conversation with me you didn't do, but let me ask you this - do you really think they didn't have a chance to let people know in some reasonable time period in the last 2+ months? Instead they dropped this news in the changelog (on the forum where people had to dig to find it, not in a post on the main general for discussion) a few days before the update goes out. Do you think THAT is good communication?

Again, others have said this but for this point ill repeat it: They knew people loved it in the beta feedback, they saw video after video for months of people using this tactic and said nothing, and at SOME POINT before this week at least they realized they needed to change it, then implemented the change and added it to the update log. Unless they did it THIS WEEK and truly didn't have time to let people know, which is silly on it's face to even think, then the communication they promised would be better never happened. Why are you arguing this so much dude? You know, sometimes you can just let others take the ball and be upset. Maybe some self reflection would do you good, cuz you're starting to just flat out not make sense.

This is days before the update. No warning prior. No dedicated announcement when they realized it. Slipped into the changelog. They had to merge threads because it started to take over the forum when released. They released variant 3 how long ago with rewards that were able to be used on this champion, and those like myself who got a science gem used it on her. Just please stop being so disingenuous for no reason, you're all over this thread arguing with people once again and being combative to try and derail it. Neither helpful or friendly in your answers either.

There are lots of assumptions in your post. For starters how do you know they knew about this for 2+ months? Also this tactic as others have pointed out is relatively new and got brought to the forefront because of 6.2.6 beats after some time. Do they need to have a dedicated announcement for every bug fix? Again how do you expect them to communicate bug fixes specifically?

jnikolas92

charging
It doesn’t state anywhere in quakes abilities she can indefinitely charge heavies yet its a part of her kit
It states it in her spotlight, don't worry.
@Kabam Miike

- The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.

This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.
That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"

The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.
So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right.
It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.

People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.

None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.

I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
How is it irrelevant? That’s what the bug is? You could always do it regardless of what content you were using her for. That’s what the bug is, it’s completely relevant. People then adapted that in to certain game styles and realised it suited her kit. Kabam have said that’s what was not the intended feature of her and that’s why they have changed her. Go watch some vids and come back and tell me the earliest time you can see someone chain a heavy or highlight how quick it is
In arguendo, You could always do it sure. It meant nothing because people didn't use it and she didn't have any reason to do it. It couldn’t cheese content in a way the devs would even notice. No significant number of people (or anyone for that matter) talked about it or even cared about it until 6.2 champion.

The earliest video’s highlighting combo into heavy are when 6.2 champion. Your turn. And here is Seatin in the beta unaware of the combo into heavy. https://youtu.be/R9mWN0ahKgQ

i agree with the point you're making. i think theres a few things that have been exaggerated here. it still doesn't change the fact that due to the lack of actions/communication on the game team's end, it caused a negative experience for people who ranked her up.
it can't be the fault of the player if there was no way to know that there was something unintended. 6.2 has been out for a few months, meaning videos noting she hulks gameplay has been known by the public for that long. that's confirmed.
i think everyone agrees that the lack of communication on their end is a thing. no question.
this caused people to use resources to rank her up. she's being changed. this needs to be rectified. let us recoup the resources and move on.

Abarttoir

Well this is just perfect; not only did I rank up 5* She-Hulk to rank 4 due to her heavy ability that is now a “bug”, I also used my Variant 3->4 rank up gem to take up that turd of a Netflix Daredevil to support She-Hulk with synergies.

OmegaDexion

Kabam honestly all these problems could be avoided if you just gave us information a week or so in advance about what changes you plan to make, or do a mini beta test for content creators or whomever. That way people will be able to see how the changes would affect their rankup choices. And as someone who hasn't used She-Hulk, didn't want to use She-Hulk, and no will not look to rank her up, I am not thrilled to see this change, but I am more worried about the potential instant changes to other characters, as some have said, magik, doc ock, and OML, but also other champs with unlisted abilities.

Dailey

I personally buy rank up materials from time to time. Now that I see one of my recent rank ups is being nerfed I feel like I was misled. I can honestly say I will never ever purchase rank up material again as I have constantly been hit by the nerfs and unintended champ powers. This is a wake up call in my opinion that this not the end of the shenanigans.

CFree

@DNA3000

I’m in agreement. Further hair-splitting can be done by PM.

Shift to another item: what are your thoughts on Miike’s statement that “all champs have the same speed and cadence to their attacks”?

Dr. Zola
I commented above upstream (https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/958580#Comment_958580) but separate from that, my general thought is that it is usually dangerous for community representatives to parrot things developers tell them. Developers generally aren't the best communicators, and they live in a bubble of jargon and context the outside world doesn't have. So anyone passing information from devs to players must be able to properly process and translate that information. I don't believe KM or the devs would deliberately lie about something so obvious, so I'm pretty sure this is an out of context remark that really should have been vetted by someone with intimate knowledge of the game mechanics and that understands the fundamentals of what players are aware of.

This happens a bit too often. I remember when I was part of the early access preview for AQ changes, and it was notable that collectively we had relatively few feedback points regarding the actual changes, and quite a few regarding how those changes were going to be communicated to the players. I think it is noteworthy how relatively few complaints there were over that update, compared to updates that were not vetted by experienced players.

If I'm wearing my game player hat, I find that statement to be inexplicable. But if I take that hat off and put my game designer hat on, I still find that statement to be inexplicable. At best it is wildly misleading, but I actually think it is far more likely to be simply an error.

Here's what I think happened. A developer told KM that the speed at which attacks could be chained together, the "cadence" of attack chains, is supposed to be the same for every champion. This is a technical statement that could actually be true, even given everything discussed in this thread, because it refers to what happens at the beginning and the end of attacks, not how fast the attacks themselves execute and it doesn't address the hold time of heavy attacks. But that could be easily paraphrased into "all champions have the same attack speed and cadence" which is now false. Attack cadence, and attack chain cadence mean two different things to me, given my experience with that kind of thing in the past.

Maybe my jargon is off here: every game developer has their own jargon. But I think something like this is very likely, and it is the result of a mangled communication process. You have to know your audience.

Is the time to charge a heavy the same? That’s the only thing I can possibly understand, otherwise it makes little sense to me.

bryndenrivers

im so against this change to this champion not cool at all

DNA3000

@DNA3000

I’m in agreement. Further hair-splitting can be done by PM.

Shift to another item: what are your thoughts on Miike’s statement that “all champs have the same speed and cadence to their attacks”?

Dr. Zola
I commented above upstream (https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/958580#Comment_958580) but separate from that, my general thought is that it is usually dangerous for community representatives to parrot things developers tell them. Developers generally aren't the best communicators, and they live in a bubble of jargon and context the outside world doesn't have. So anyone passing information from devs to players must be able to properly process and translate that information. I don't believe KM or the devs would deliberately lie about something so obvious, so I'm pretty sure this is an out of context remark that really should have been vetted by someone with intimate knowledge of the game mechanics and that understands the fundamentals of what players are aware of.

This happens a bit too often. I remember when I was part of the early access preview for AQ changes, and it was notable that collectively we had relatively few feedback points regarding the actual changes, and quite a few regarding how those changes were going to be communicated to the players. I think it is noteworthy how relatively few complaints there were over that update, compared to updates that were not vetted by experienced players.

If I'm wearing my game player hat, I find that statement to be inexplicable. But if I take that hat off and put my game designer hat on, I still find that statement to be inexplicable. At best it is wildly misleading, but I actually think it is far more likely to be simply an error.

Here's what I think happened. A developer told KM that the speed at which attacks could be chained together, the "cadence" of attack chains, is supposed to be the same for every champion. This is a technical statement that could actually be true, even given everything discussed in this thread, because it refers to what happens at the beginning and the end of attacks, not how fast the attacks themselves execute and it doesn't address the hold time of heavy attacks. But that could be easily paraphrased into "all champions have the same attack speed and cadence" which is now false. Attack cadence, and attack chain cadence mean two different things to me, given my experience with that kind of thing in the past.

Maybe my jargon is off here: every game developer has their own jargon. But I think something like this is very likely, and it is the result of a mangled communication process. You have to know your audience.
Is the time to charge a heavy the same? That’s the only thing I can possibly understand, otherwise it makes little sense to me.

There's (at least) two possibilities, and I'm not sure which one is true. Since evidence has been given that demonstrates that some champions can combo into a heavy and others can't, and it seems to be linked to the kind of heavy the champions execute, either those heavies can "trigger" faster and thus they can be used before the target can act or they trigger no faster but make contact quicker and thus land before the target can act.

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GinjabredMonsta

Some people are mad about the change, unintended or not, others are made about the recent handle of "bugs", and others are mad about how kabam handled the situation and it reflected the relation between them and players.

Majormoscow

You know, the thing they think we forget is that even tho they gave rank down tickets in the past based on nerfs, those nerfs were explained as game balancing. Just because they say it’s balancing doesn’t mean it’s not a nerf. People invested in sw and Thor for the same reasons yet today kabam acknowledges those as nerfs but nothing after... very suspicious. They should give rank down tickets every time their foresight into how abilities could be exploited is misjudged and people invest resources, period. It’s always “game balancing” when it comes to kabam.

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GroundedWisdom

They were unintended glitches in their mechanics. Drax wasn't even something that was with all devices.
There's no bait in my statement. There seems to be bait in others on here, but I'm not interested in taking it.
The abilities of SW and Thor pre-nerf were also “glitches in their mechanics” Kabam issued rank down tickets. Same should happen here. If they lack the foresight into exploits they should be the ones who swallow the pill.

No. Those weren't just glitches in their mechanics. They were the intended performance of Champs. Very specific Abilities which, in combination with Synergies and a percentage-based system, brought the future of the game itself into a stalemate. They couldn't create anything the Champs couldn't mathematically cut through.

GroundedWisdom

They were unintended glitches in their mechanics. Drax wasn't even something that was with all devices.
There's no bait in my statement. There seems to be bait in others on here, but I'm not interested in taking it.
The abilities of SW and Thor pre-nerf were also “glitches in their mechanics” Kabam issued rank down tickets. Same should happen here. If they lack the foresight into exploits they should be the ones who swallow the pill.
No. Those weren't just glitches in their mechanics. They were the intended performance of Champs. Very specific Abilities which, in combination with Synergies and a percentage-based system, brought the future of the game itself into a stalemate. They couldn't create anything the Champs couldn't mathematically cut through.
It’s laughable that you think that doesn’t meet the definition of a glitch. Just because kabam’s fine tuning has come down to more minute changes doesn’t mean that people investing resources in viable champs shouldn’t be acknowledged. Indefensible to not compensate for.

The difference between a glitch and an intended Ability change is exactly what we're discussing, and there IS a difference. I'm completely aware of the difference between this and 12.0. I was here the whole time.

Majormoscow

They were unintended glitches in their mechanics. Drax wasn't even something that was with all devices.
There's no bait in my statement. There seems to be bait in others on here, but I'm not interested in taking it.
The abilities of SW and Thor pre-nerf were also “glitches in their mechanics” Kabam issued rank down tickets. Same should happen here. If they lack the foresight into exploits they should be the ones who swallow the pill.
No. Those weren't just glitches in their mechanics. They were the intended performance of Champs. Very specific Abilities which, in combination with Synergies and a percentage-based system, brought the future of the game itself into a stalemate. They couldn't create anything the Champs couldn't mathematically cut through.
It’s laughable that you think that doesn’t meet the definition of a glitch. Just because kabam’s fine tuning has come down to more minute changes doesn’t mean that people investing resources in viable champs shouldn’t be acknowledged. Indefensible to not compensate for.
The difference between a glitch and an intended Ability change is exactly what we're discussing, and there IS a difference. I'm completely aware of the difference between this and 12.0. I was here the whole time.

“Intended ability change” is a made up term that you are using to describe Kabam “fixing” a way that a certain champ operates based on what they “intend”. Otherwise known as a “glitch”. there is literally no difference to what the current situation is even considering the extremes; both the extreme resources required to bring shehulk to rank 5 for cavalier content, and the extreme handicap that having sw or Thor pre 12.0 nerf gave to a user. Neither should be ignored and neither is distinguishably different from the other.

Logan

I am sitting on 3 t5b and a bunch of t2 alpha how can I rank anyone I like without knowing what their future is, just give the RDT if your gonna pull this so you can charge $50 for a fraction of a t5b. I might like colossus after the beta would need to awaken and pump a lot of resources but in 3 months you can devalue those resources without anything in return? How can anyone make an intelligent decision anymore?

GroundedWisdom

They were unintended glitches in their mechanics. Drax wasn't even something that was with all devices.
There's no bait in my statement. There seems to be bait in others on here, but I'm not interested in taking it.
The abilities of SW and Thor pre-nerf were also “glitches in their mechanics” Kabam issued rank down tickets. Same should happen here. If they lack the foresight into exploits they should be the ones who swallow the pill.
No. Those weren't just glitches in their mechanics. They were the intended performance of Champs. Very specific Abilities which, in combination with Synergies and a percentage-based system, brought the future of the game itself into a stalemate. They couldn't create anything the Champs couldn't mathematically cut through.
It’s laughable that you think that doesn’t meet the definition of a glitch. Just because kabam’s fine tuning has come down to more minute changes doesn’t mean that people investing resources in viable champs shouldn’t be acknowledged. Indefensible to not compensate for.
The difference between a glitch and an intended Ability change is exactly what we're discussing, and there IS a difference. I'm completely aware of the difference between this and 12.0. I was here the whole time.
“Intended ability change” is a made up term that you are using to describe Kabam “fixing” a way that a certain champ operates based on what they “intend”. Otherwise known as a “glitch”. there is literally no difference to what the current situation is even considering the extremes; both the extreme resources required to bring shehulk to rank 5 for cavalier content, and the extreme handicap that having sw or Thor pre 12.0 nerf gave to a user. Neither should be ignored and neither is distinguishably different from the other.

I'm not sure what narrative you're operating on, but it's not at all congruent with what's taken place.
The term "intended" has been used many times on here. As in, intentional. What a Champ has been intended to do. Layman's Terms, what Kabam wants the outcome to be.
The nerfs with 12.0 were 100% intentional, performed on intentional Abilities, as well as the very system itself. Those changes aren't even close to what we're talking about here. There were MAJOR changes to those Champs and the Meta. Those were very deliberate and specific cases that had to be altered to ensure the game itself would continue.
There was nothing intentional about Shulk performing this way, and 6.2 just brought it to the forefront. That wasn't an intentional design. It wasn't a major change to how she was intended to perform.
We can analyze the use of the term ad nauseum, but one was a change to something that was very much intended beforehand, and the other was an unintentional glitch that became a much larger problem when people decided to exploit it in 6.2. Was it a grave exploit? No. It was exploitable in the sense that it gave an advantage they never "intended".