Compensation

Worknprogress

No

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

Human_Iceberg2 said:

Okay here’s some proof. She hulk has been in this game for over 3 years now. Her heavy chain from a combo has been doable since her release. Even during the beta, Kabam did not say anything about she hulks heavy chain being a bug or frame rate glitch. People have been using it this for so many years and now it’s being fixed? Seems very suspicious. Even with this, she hulk isn’t broken or OP, and it was a nice little thing she could do. The best thing Kabam can do now is at least release rank down tickets or some sort of compensation to make up for something that has been a part of she hulk for a long time, and is why many people took her up

You think being able to pin 6.2.6 champion in a corner and take basically zero damage with a R2-3 SH is a "nice little thing she can do"?

It is, compared to what quake can do this is nothing and you can only do heavy spam when they are below a bar of power from what I recall

Doing what quake does is far harder than the she hulk corner. And yes you spam until one bar then back up and they immediately throw a sp1 due to her taunt. Then just start over.

Worknprogress

No

Rougeknight87 said:

Worknprogress said:

And I'd say a R2 5* being able to clear the majority of one the most difficult fights in game currently while taking almost no damage is definitely broken

Think people can make similar comparisons to quake though, speculating but I’m pretty sure when they released her they had no intention of people being able to go through whole fights with her not only not hitting the opponent but the opponent also not being able to hit her and her taking 0 damage.

Regardless of what was intended she's still operating inside specified abilities when SH is not. Also it's far harder to take on that level of fight with a r3 quake than it is R3 SH. If you don't think so please point me to all the R3 quake champion kills.

Demonzfyre

Why do We Even Need Compensation

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

Human_Iceberg2 said:

@Worknprogress you know ghost with a tech power boost can regain all her power and just keep spamming special 2 attacks? She hulk can spam heavies in a corner but it’s still just a different playstyle. You still have to bait specials and stuff. Do you want doc oc to be nerfed too? He can also spam heavies in the corner

For one that's ghost operating within her specified abilities. Two she definitely can't do that as a R2 in end game content as those boosts are based off percentage health taken so good luck with that. Plus have fun taking ghost into that champion fight even as a R5 anyway. 3 you dont have to bait squat after a few combos due to taunt on her fury. You just back up and he throws sp1. 4 I have seen some of but am far less familiar with doc oc in that situation but you better believe if there's ever a major end game fight he spams with it, that's gone too.

How about quake hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Quake is on a whole different level of her own. But the amount of skill to use her properly is high and shes performing according to her written abilities.

On top of that, take away evade and she can't do quake style or mess up and you're done for.

Zuro

Demonzfyre said:

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

Human_Iceberg2 said:

@Worknprogress you know ghost with a tech power boost can regain all her power and just keep spamming special 2 attacks? She hulk can spam heavies in a corner but it’s still just a different playstyle. You still have to bait specials and stuff. Do you want doc oc to be nerfed too? He can also spam heavies in the corner

For one that's ghost operating within her specified abilities. Two she definitely can't do that as a R2 in end game content as those boosts are based off percentage health taken so good luck with that. Plus have fun taking ghost into that champion fight even as a R5 anyway. 3 you dont have to bait squat after a few combos due to taunt on her fury. You just back up and he throws sp1. 4 I have seen some of but am far less familiar with doc oc in that situation but you better believe if there's ever a major end game fight he spams with it, that's gone too.

How about quake hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Quake is on a whole different level of her own. But the amount of skill to use her properly is high and shes performing according to her written abilities.

On top of that, take away evade and she can't do quake style or mess up and you're done for.

And for she hulk you can't heavy spam if they are above a bar of power 100 percent of the time

Worknprogress

No

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

Human_Iceberg2 said:

@Worknprogress you know ghost with a tech power boost can regain all her power and just keep spamming special 2 attacks? She hulk can spam heavies in a corner but it’s still just a different playstyle. You still have to bait specials and stuff. Do you want doc oc to be nerfed too? He can also spam heavies in the corner

For one that's ghost operating within her specified abilities. Two she definitely can't do that as a R2 in end game content as those boosts are based off percentage health taken so good luck with that. Plus have fun taking ghost into that champion fight even as a R5 anyway. 3 you dont have to bait squat after a few combos due to taunt on her fury. You just back up and he throws sp1. 4 I have seen some of but am far less familiar with doc oc in that situation but you better believe if there's ever a major end game fight he spams with it, that's gone too.

How about quake hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

How about quake operating within abilities stated in her description? How about it? Also again point me to all the R3 quake kills. I'm not saying she couldn't do it but the skill needed to do so compared to the she hulk cheese is laughable

Worknprogress

No

Zuro said:

Demonzfyre said:

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

Human_Iceberg2 said:

@Worknprogress you know ghost with a tech power boost can regain all her power and just keep spamming special 2 attacks? She hulk can spam heavies in a corner but it’s still just a different playstyle. You still have to bait specials and stuff. Do you want doc oc to be nerfed too? He can also spam heavies in the corner

For one that's ghost operating within her specified abilities. Two she definitely can't do that as a R2 in end game content as those boosts are based off percentage health taken so good luck with that. Plus have fun taking ghost into that champion fight even as a R5 anyway. 3 you dont have to bait squat after a few combos due to taunt on her fury. You just back up and he throws sp1. 4 I have seen some of but am far less familiar with doc oc in that situation but you better believe if there's ever a major end game fight he spams with it, that's gone too.

How about quake hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Quake is on a whole different level of her own. But the amount of skill to use her properly is high and shes performing according to her written abilities.

On top of that, take away evade and she can't do quake style or mess up and you're done for.

And for she hulk you can't heavy spam if they are above a bar of power 100 percent of the time

So you back up once after they get a bar and her taunt has them throw a sp1 immediately. Not exactly difficult stuff. Dodge one sp1 and they're back in the corner until the next one

Rougeknight87

Yes

To do what people were doing with she hulk still took a mighty amount of skill

Worknprogress said:

Rougeknight87 said:

Worknprogress said:

And I'd say a R2 5* being able to clear the majority of one the most difficult fights in game currently while taking almost no damage is definitely broken

Think people can make similar comparisons to quake though, speculating but I’m pretty sure when they released her they had no intention of people being able to go through whole fights with her not only not hitting the opponent but the opponent also not being able to hit her and her taking 0 damage.

Regardless of what was intended she's still operating inside specified abilities when SH is not. Also it's far harder to take on that level of fight with a r3 quake than it is R3 SH. If you don't think so please point me to all the R3 quake champion kills.

Not saying that man, this ain’t just about a specific fight in my eyes. Quakes far more useful in a lot of content the SH is IMO. I think the comparison can be made and to think everyone should be already aware of what is and what isn’t a bug is incorrect I feel. Not everyone is as experienced as some and not everyone does as much research. Both require high skill and both are unique in that they can go fights taking extremely minimal damage, personally think it’s a fair comparison

Zuro

Worknprogress said:

Zuro said:

Demonzfyre said:

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

Human_Iceberg2 said:

@Worknprogress you know ghost with a tech power boost can regain all her power and just keep spamming special 2 attacks? She hulk can spam heavies in a corner but it’s still just a different playstyle. You still have to bait specials and stuff. Do you want doc oc to be nerfed too? He can also spam heavies in the corner

For one that's ghost operating within her specified abilities. Two she definitely can't do that as a R2 in end game content as those boosts are based off percentage health taken so good luck with that. Plus have fun taking ghost into that champion fight even as a R5 anyway. 3 you dont have to bait squat after a few combos due to taunt on her fury. You just back up and he throws sp1. 4 I have seen some of but am far less familiar with doc oc in that situation but you better believe if there's ever a major end game fight he spams with it, that's gone too.

How about quake hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Quake is on a whole different level of her own. But the amount of skill to use her properly is high and shes performing according to her written abilities.

On top of that, take away evade and she can't do quake style or mess up and you're done for.

And for she hulk you can't heavy spam if they are above a bar of power 100 percent of the time

So you back up once after they get a bar and her taunt has them throw a sp1 immediately. Not exactly difficult stuff. Dodge one sp1 and they're back in the corner until the next one

Youre acting like every sp1 is evadeable

Worknprogress

No

Rougeknight87 said:

To do what people were doing with she hulk still took a mighty amount of skill

Worknprogress said:

Rougeknight87 said:

Worknprogress said:

And I'd say a R2 5* being able to clear the majority of one the most difficult fights in game currently while taking almost no damage is definitely broken

Think people can make similar comparisons to quake though, speculating but I’m pretty sure when they released her they had no intention of people being able to go through whole fights with her not only not hitting the opponent but the opponent also not being able to hit her and her taking 0 damage.

Regardless of what was intended she's still operating inside specified abilities when SH is not. Also it's far harder to take on that level of fight with a r3 quake than it is R3 SH. If you don't think so please point me to all the R3 quake champion kills.

Not saying that man, this ain’t just about a specific fight in my eyes. Quakes far more useful in a lot of content the SH is IMO. I think the comparison can be made and to think everyone should be already aware of what is and what isn’t a bug is incorrect I feel. Not everyone is as experienced as some and not everyone does as much research. Both require high skill and both are unique in that they can go fights taking extremely minimal damage, personally think it’s a fair comparison

She hulk spam definitely did not require a high level of skill. Yes it required you to not be terrible at the game but no where near high level quake play

Worknprogress

No

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

Zuro said:

Demonzfyre said:

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

Human_Iceberg2 said:

@Worknprogress you know ghost with a tech power boost can regain all her power and just keep spamming special 2 attacks? She hulk can spam heavies in a corner but it’s still just a different playstyle. You still have to bait specials and stuff. Do you want doc oc to be nerfed too? He can also spam heavies in the corner

For one that's ghost operating within her specified abilities. Two she definitely can't do that as a R2 in end game content as those boosts are based off percentage health taken so good luck with that. Plus have fun taking ghost into that champion fight even as a R5 anyway. 3 you dont have to bait squat after a few combos due to taunt on her fury. You just back up and he throws sp1. 4 I have seen some of but am far less familiar with doc oc in that situation but you better believe if there's ever a major end game fight he spams with it, that's gone too.

How about quake hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Quake is on a whole different level of her own. But the amount of skill to use her properly is high and shes performing according to her written abilities.

On top of that, take away evade and she can't do quake style or mess up and you're done for.

And for she hulk you can't heavy spam if they are above a bar of power 100 percent of the time

So you back up once after they get a bar and her taunt has them throw a sp1 immediately. Not exactly difficult stuff. Dodge one sp1 and they're back in the corner until the next one

Youre acting like every sp1 is evadeable

No I'm acting like the spam fights people are using her for have evadable sp1s

Worknprogress

No

I never said she crushed every fight in the game. She did however crush fights that were difficult enough that being able to cheese them like this was an issue

Worknprogress

No

I dont care at all if how she was "broke the game". It was an unstated and apparently unintended interaction. Some people got to benefit from it, some won't. If you ranked her based solely on that, again shame on you

Worknprogress

No

There have been things flat out stated to be working as intended after being discussed that got changed later. You guys should have seen this one coming a mile away.

Rougeknight87

Yes

Worknprogress said:

Rougeknight87 said:

To do what people were doing with she hulk still took a mighty amount of skill

Worknprogress said:

Rougeknight87 said:

Worknprogress said:

And I'd say a R2 5* being able to clear the majority of one the most difficult fights in game currently while taking almost no damage is definitely broken

Think people can make similar comparisons to quake though, speculating but I’m pretty sure when they released her they had no intention of people being able to go through whole fights with her not only not hitting the opponent but the opponent also not being able to hit her and her taking 0 damage.

Regardless of what was intended she's still operating inside specified abilities when SH is not. Also it's far harder to take on that level of fight with a r3 quake than it is R3 SH. If you don't think so please point me to all the R3 quake champion kills.

Not saying that man, this ain’t just about a specific fight in my eyes. Quakes far more useful in a lot of content the SH is IMO. I think the comparison can be made and to think everyone should be already aware of what is and what isn’t a bug is incorrect I feel. Not everyone is as experienced as some and not everyone does as much research. Both require high skill and both are unique in that they can go fights taking extremely minimal damage, personally think it’s a fair comparison

She hulk spam definitely did not require a high level of skill. Yes it required you to not be terrible at the game but no where near high level quake play

Agree it defiantly requires more skill no debating that but the end result is the same in them both taking no damage and both not being hit. Both could be construed as not being intended and the comparison to me is then fair. The technicalities of what’s intended and what’s not are pretty blurred especially to your average summoner considering the amount of unintended interactions already prevalent within the game.

Demonzfyre

Why do We Even Need Compensation

Lets face it, if she didnt get buffed no one would even care if she got changed.

GroundedWisdom

No

Demonzfyre said:

Lets face it, if she didnt get buffed no one would even care if she got changed.

It's because people saw others taking down The Champion and they all Ranked her in droves.

Worknprogress

No

Rougeknight87 said:

Worknprogress said:

Rougeknight87 said:

To do what people were doing with she hulk still took a mighty amount of skill

Worknprogress said:

Rougeknight87 said:

Worknprogress said:

And I'd say a R2 5* being able to clear the majority of one the most difficult fights in game currently while taking almost no damage is definitely broken

Think people can make similar comparisons to quake though, speculating but I’m pretty sure when they released her they had no intention of people being able to go through whole fights with her not only not hitting the opponent but the opponent also not being able to hit her and her taking 0 damage.

Regardless of what was intended she's still operating inside specified abilities when SH is not. Also it's far harder to take on that level of fight with a r3 quake than it is R3 SH. If you don't think so please point me to all the R3 quake champion kills.

Not saying that man, this ain’t just about a specific fight in my eyes. Quakes far more useful in a lot of content the SH is IMO. I think the comparison can be made and to think everyone should be already aware of what is and what isn’t a bug is incorrect I feel. Not everyone is as experienced as some and not everyone does as much research. Both require high skill and both are unique in that they can go fights taking extremely minimal damage, personally think it’s a fair comparison

She hulk spam definitely did not require a high level of skill. Yes it required you to not be terrible at the game but no where near high level quake play

Agree it defiantly requires more skill no debating that but the end result is the same in them both taking no damage and both not being hit. Both could be construed as not being intended and the comparison to me is then fair. The technicalities of what’s intended and what’s not are pretty blurred especially to your average summoner considering the amount of unintended interactions already prevalent within the game.

I don't personally agree with you but that's your opinion. I feel that one of them is operating well within specified abilities in her description while the other is not. I wasn't upset with the people that took advantage of that at all but I certainly don't feel sorry for them either when something unintended was changed afterwards.

Zuro

Worknprogress said:

I dont care at all if how she was "broke the game". It was an unstated and apparently unintended interaction. Some people got to benefit from it, some won't. If you ranked her based solely on that, again shame on you

How are you gonna say shame on the people who ranked her up for that reason like they knew it was unintended like it had been out for 3+ years it's not our fault Kabam doesn't know how to test a dang champion

Rougeknight87

Yes

Demonzfyre said:

Lets face it, if she didnt get buffed no one would even care if she got changed.

She did get buffed though so while you’re right it’s not really relevant to the current predicament people are finding themselves in

Worknprogress

No

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

I dont care at all if how she was "broke the game". It was an unstated and apparently unintended interaction. Some people got to benefit from it, some won't. If you ranked her based solely on that, again shame on you

How are you gonna say shame on the people who ranked her up for that reason like they knew it was unintended like it had been out for 3+ years it's not our fault Kabam doesn't know how to test a dang champion

It wasn't stated and was an interaction that the vast majority of champions do not have. That screams unintended to anyone that's been playing the game for any lengthy period of time

Rougeknight87

Yes

GroundedWisdom said:

Demonzfyre said:

Lets face it, if she didnt get buffed no one would even care if she got changed.

It's because people saw others taking down The Champion and they all Ranked her in droves.

Might be true in some cases but plenty probably ranked her based on general gameplay videos or in game experiences based on her interactions after the buff. Pretty shortsighted to put it all down to one fight.

Worknprogress

No

If a champ can do something the vast majority of others cannot and it isn't outlined in their abilities, anyone with sense would assume it's unintended.

Now whether it's going to end up changed more than likely depends on to what extent the unintended interaction benefits the player unfortunately. It's just straight foolish to gamble on something that seems like it could be off and isn't mentioned actually being an intended benefit to the player

WebsnatcherDribble

Yes

If a certain amount of people learn to play quake and start clearing their hardest content without using potions or revives, pretty sure the "stated abilities" thingy would go for a toss too

Worknprogress

No

WebsnatcherDribble said:

If a certain amount of people learn to play quake and start clearing their hardest content without using potions or revives, pretty sure the "stated abilities" thingy would go for a toss too

That would be a much harder sell for them but sure it's possible. Also I have very little faith in the ability of a large majority of the player base being able to learn to do that

Zuro

Worknprogress said:

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

I dont care at all if how she was "broke the game". It was an unstated and apparently unintended interaction. Some people got to benefit from it, some won't. If you ranked her based solely on that, again shame on you

How are you gonna say shame on the people who ranked her up for that reason like they knew it was unintended like it had been out for 3+ years it's not our fault Kabam doesn't know how to test a dang champion

It wasn't stated and was an interaction that the vast majority of champions do not have. That screams unintended to anyone that's been playing the game for any lengthy period of time

My problem isnt that it wasn't unintended my issue is that it took them over 3 years to realize she can do that which makes people think that it is intended since this has been in the game for how long...And plus if that's the case how come they haven't fixed the ability of hood and drax being able to chain combo despite hood being in the game for a few years and drax has been here from the start

GroundedWisdom

No

Rougeknight87 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Demonzfyre said:

Lets face it, if she didnt get buffed no one would even care if she got changed.

It's because people saw others taking down The Champion and they all Ranked her in droves.

Might be true in some cases but plenty probably ranked her based on general gameplay videos or in game experiences based on her interactions after the buff. Pretty shortsighted to put it all down to one fight.

Prior to 6.2, I'd venture a guess that very few R5 Shulks were floating around. Lol.

Rougeknight87

Yes

GroundedWisdom said:

Rougeknight87 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Demonzfyre said:

Lets face it, if she didnt get buffed no one would even care if she got changed.

It's because people saw others taking down The Champion and they all Ranked her in droves.

Might be true in some cases but plenty probably ranked her based on general gameplay videos or in game experiences based on her interactions after the buff. Pretty shortsighted to put it all down to one fight.

Prior to 6.2, I'd venture a guess that very few R5 Shulks were floating around. Lol.

That’s pure speculation. Lol.

Worknprogress

No

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

I dont care at all if how she was "broke the game". It was an unstated and apparently unintended interaction. Some people got to benefit from it, some won't. If you ranked her based solely on that, again shame on you

How are you gonna say shame on the people who ranked her up for that reason like they knew it was unintended like it had been out for 3+ years it's not our fault Kabam doesn't know how to test a dang champion

It wasn't stated and was an interaction that the vast majority of champions do not have. That screams unintended to anyone that's been playing the game for any lengthy period of time

My problem isnt that it wasn't unintended my issue is that it took them over 3 years to realize she can do that which makes people think that it is intended since this has been in the game for how long...And plus if that's the case how come they haven't fixed the ability of hood and drax being able to chain combo despite hood being in the game for a few years and drax has been here from the start

I doubt it took them that long to realize she can do it personally. I do assume that it was considered irrelevant until a very specific and difficult fight came along that she was able to essentially bypass with the "unintended interaction" that it became grounds to look at.

Hence why I said that the extent of the benefit to the player will unfortunately be the deciding factor of whether something unintended gets "fixed" unfortunately.

I agree with all of you that how this was handled was yet again poor at best. I just don't agree that the change itself is unjustified

GroundedWisdom

No

Rougeknight87 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Rougeknight87 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Demonzfyre said:

Lets face it, if she didnt get buffed no one would even care if she got changed.

It's because people saw others taking down The Champion and they all Ranked her in droves.

Might be true in some cases but plenty probably ranked her based on general gameplay videos or in game experiences based on her interactions after the buff. Pretty shortsighted to put it all down to one fight.

Prior to 6.2, I'd venture a guess that very few R5 Shulks were floating around. Lol.

That’s pure speculation. Lol.

Clearly. I don't have access to all Rank Ups. However, we all know what Champs are popular.