Compensation

H3t3r

Yes

If i am not mistaken OML can do the exact same thing as she hulk so guessing we should expect that to get fixed as well?

JohnHS

Yes

Neotwism said:

For the ppl wanting RDT are u willing to also redo any fights and content u used her in to get where u are now?

No, because it's not our fault Kabam didn't bother to tell us that a mechanic she's had for three years is a bug.

Trillionaire6

The problem with your argument is that you've stated she hulk is an unintended effect and should be fixed. However in your example of Doc Oct, you are saying it is fine UNTIL it becomes an issue with an upcoming fight. That logic doesn't make any sense, and you're actually acknowledging that they are changing mechanics based not on the unintended champ effect, but the unintended success in future content. It's only limited to she hulk because she directly benefits off of this tactic with the buff she received. If it were truly a problem that needed fix due to being outside of the game mechanics in the dev process, then all of the other champs who can do the same thing would also have been "fixed". Plus, how do you back them up when their rebuttal is that all champions attack in the same speed in cadence? That's just a straight up lie.

Worknprogress

No

Trillionaire6 said:

The problem with your argument is that you've stated she hulk is an unintended effect and should be fixed. However in your example of Doc Oct, you are saying it is fine UNTIL it becomes an issue with an upcoming fight. That logic doesn't make any sense, and you're actually acknowledging that they are changing mechanics based not on the unintended champ effect, but the unintended success in future content. It's only limited to she hulk because she directly benefits off of this tactic with the buff she received. If it were truly a problem that needed fix due to being outside of the game mechanics in the dev process, then all of the other champs who can do the same thing would also have been "fixed". Plus, how do you back them up when their rebuttal is that all champions attack in the same speed in cadence? That's just a straight up lie.

I never said it was fine. I just said that the likelyhood of it being "fixed" was infinitely higher once it becomes an issue with a specific high level fight.

I've said plenty of times I'm not okay with how this was done but only that I was okay with the change itself in a vaccuum.

Worknprogress

No

If you don't think it makes sense for them to focus attention on something that lets players complete very difficult content with low ranked champs then I don't know what to tell you. That's just common sense. It has nothing to do with my opinion of the interaction itself

Zuro

Worknprogress said:

If you don't think it makes sense for them to focus attention on something that lets players complete very difficult content with low ranked champs then I don't know what to tell you. That's just common sense. It has nothing to do with my opinion of the interaction itself

But that whole fight requires skill it shouldn't matter what rank you're champ is if a hood at R3 can do it so can she hulk

Trillionaire6

And that in of itself is no longer a bug. It's an effect that the champ had based on their abilities, animations, hit boxes, speed, and development. This variation in abilities can be seen all over the contest, and it's why certain champs excel in certain scenarios. It's completely unethical to change these abilities based on how they might be used in future scenarios, as this is what has been expected of that specific champs performance. When people are using a champ they have invested in for a long time and see these changes come in, it is in no way unwarranted for a refund. I commend your ability to have a real discussion about it, I just don't agree with all of your points.

Worknprogress

No

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

If you don't think it makes sense for them to focus attention on something that lets players complete very difficult content with low ranked champs then I don't know what to tell you. That's just common sense. It has nothing to do with my opinion of the interaction itself

But that whole fight requires skill it shouldn't matter what rank you're champ is if a hood at R3 can do it so can she hulk

Is hood finishing the fight while operating inside his specified abilities? If so, it's not really relevant bc the R3 SH certainly is not

Worknprogress

No

Trillionaire6 said:

And that in of itself is no longer a bug. It's an effect that the champ had based on their abilities, animations, hit boxes, speed, and development. This variation in abilities can be seen all over the contest, and it's why certain champs excel in certain scenarios. It's completely unethical to change these abilities based on how they might be used in future scenarios, as this is what has been expected of that specific champs performance. When people are using a champ they have invested in for a long time and see these changes come in, it is in no way unwarranted for a refund. I commend your ability to have a real discussion about it, I just don't agree with all of your points.

VERY few people have invested in this champ for any length of time. This is a very new use for her specifically. I won't say no one ranked her up 3 months ago but I'd bet the percentage of those who did is weighted very low compared to those that have since.

We don't have to agree, that's the whole point of these discussions. I absolutely see why people would be upset, I can empathize with the sentiment as I was one of those greatly affected by the MD change. That however was an interaction that was explicitly stated to be intended. This most definitely was not so while I understand what people feel I don't agree with them feeling this is a change that's as nefarious as some feel it is.

How it was done and handled is shambolic certainly. The change itself is not the larger issue that needs to be addressed in my opinion though.

Zuro

Worknprogress said:

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

If you don't think it makes sense for them to focus attention on something that lets players complete very difficult content with low ranked champs then I don't know what to tell you. That's just common sense. It has nothing to do with my opinion of the interaction itself

But that whole fight requires skill it shouldn't matter what rank you're champ is if a hood at R3 can do it so can she hulk

Is hood finishing the fight while operating inside his specified abilities? If so, it's not really relevant bc the R3 SH certainly is not

I know his is operating in his specific abilities but earlier you said any Champ is OP if they can beat 6.2 the champion at rank 3 and if hood could do it what is so wrong about SH doing so

Worknprogress

No

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

If you don't think it makes sense for them to focus attention on something that lets players complete very difficult content with low ranked champs then I don't know what to tell you. That's just common sense. It has nothing to do with my opinion of the interaction itself

But that whole fight requires skill it shouldn't matter what rank you're champ is if a hood at R3 can do it so can she hulk

Is hood finishing the fight while operating inside his specified abilities? If so, it's not really relevant bc the R3 SH certainly is not

I know his is operating in his specific abilities but earlier you said any Champ is OP if they can beat 6.2 the champion at rank 3 and if hood could do it what is so wrong about SH doing so

While I may not have reiterated the statement every single timenive addressed something to this extent, I've said multiple times that if a champ is doing this within their stated abilities, there's not much kabam can be upset about.

Zuro

Worknprogress said:

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

If you don't think it makes sense for them to focus attention on something that lets players complete very difficult content with low ranked champs then I don't know what to tell you. That's just common sense. It has nothing to do with my opinion of the interaction itself

But that whole fight requires skill it shouldn't matter what rank you're champ is if a hood at R3 can do it so can she hulk

Is hood finishing the fight while operating inside his specified abilities? If so, it's not really relevant bc the R3 SH certainly is not

I know his is operating in his specific abilities but earlier you said any Champ is OP if they can beat 6.2 the champion at rank 3 and if hood could do it what is so wrong about SH doing so

While I may not have reiterated the statement every single timenive addressed something to this extent, I've said multiple times that if a champ is doing this within their stated abilities, there's not much kabam can be upset about.

But not all abilities of champs are stated in their description

Worknprogress

No

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

If you don't think it makes sense for them to focus attention on something that lets players complete very difficult content with low ranked champs then I don't know what to tell you. That's just common sense. It has nothing to do with my opinion of the interaction itself

But that whole fight requires skill it shouldn't matter what rank you're champ is if a hood at R3 can do it so can she hulk

Is hood finishing the fight while operating inside his specified abilities? If so, it's not really relevant bc the R3 SH certainly is not

I know his is operating in his specific abilities but earlier you said any Champ is OP if they can beat 6.2 the champion at rank 3 and if hood could do it what is so wrong about SH doing so

While I may not have reiterated the statement every single timenive addressed something to this extent, I've said multiple times that if a champ is doing this within their stated abilities, there's not much kabam can be upset about.

But not all abilities of champs are stated in their description

And when something gets confirmed as intended and then removed, you'll have a point. Until then you don't

Zuro

Worknprogress said:

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

Zuro said:

Worknprogress said:

If you don't think it makes sense for them to focus attention on something that lets players complete very difficult content with low ranked champs then I don't know what to tell you. That's just common sense. It has nothing to do with my opinion of the interaction itself

But that whole fight requires skill it shouldn't matter what rank you're champ is if a hood at R3 can do it so can she hulk

Is hood finishing the fight while operating inside his specified abilities? If so, it's not really relevant bc the R3 SH certainly is not

I know his is operating in his specific abilities but earlier you said any Champ is OP if they can beat 6.2 the champion at rank 3 and if hood could do it what is so wrong about SH doing so

While I may not have reiterated the statement every single timenive addressed something to this extent, I've said multiple times that if a champ is doing this within their stated abilities, there's not much kabam can be upset about.

But not all abilities of champs are stated in their description

And when something gets confirmed as intended and then removed, you'll have a point. Until then you don't

You got me there but that wasn't really my point my point was that there should be more transparency between players and kabam

ThatGuyYouSaw235

Yes

Removing a "bug" that contributed in making She-Hulk one of the greatest champions in the game after her buff and 3 years of being added into the game is pretty slow and kinda stupid

but also doing it after releasing hard content that few champs fit perfectly in doing (she hulk being one of them) is nothing less than a low blow

Patchie93

No

Trillionaire6 said:

The problem with your argument is that you've stated she hulk is an unintended effect and should be fixed. However in your example of Doc Oct, you are saying it is fine UNTIL it becomes an issue with an upcoming fight. That logic doesn't make any sense, and you're actually acknowledging that they are changing mechanics based not on the unintended champ effect, but the unintended success in future content. It's only limited to she hulk because she directly benefits off of this tactic with the buff she received. If it were truly a problem that needed fix due to being outside of the game mechanics in the dev process, then all of the other champs who can do the same thing would also have been "fixed". Plus, how do you back them up when their rebuttal is that all champions attack in the same speed in cadence? That's just a straight up lie.

Kabam did mention that no champion besides wasp should be able to chain a combo into a heavy.
It became more apparent of how much of an advantage she hulk gained from being to do so due to her buff. Something that if not stated about OML could potentially gain the same type of issue in the future due to his rework and how heavies help his new kit.

The otherside of this is if you call this out as a potential bug doesn't the community have a habit of jumping on players for ruining a good thing that benefits the community. Essentially calling him a whistle blower

FF10

Yes

BabyMiike said:

Should We Get Compensation for The Nerf To She Hulk? That Ruins Her Play style and Makes Her Way Less Valuable. I Feel Bad For The People Who Got Her to 5/65. I Personally Think We Should Get Compensation Do U?

I believe those who said NO was those that doesnt have a ranked up She hulk. But seriously what about those who have her at R4 or higher ? They have spent valuable resources on her and Is'nt it only justice that they get their resources back ? Chaining heavy was vital for her playstyle especially when it comes to keeping furies from expiring. And how could people have known that this was intended or not as this mechanic has been present for a long time now ?

I don't understand why people say NO to this. Those people who ranked her up deserve a RDT. Btw i don't have a ranked up She hulk but i can understand the pain of others.

Magrailothos

No

Worknprogress said:

In an instance like this where players find an unintended interaction that benefits them to the point of being able to clear the majority of an endgame fight that's one the most difficult in the game currently with a R2 or R3 5*, well they shouldn't really be surprised when that gets changed.

Absolutely. You could compare this to an ancient 'nerf' to Gwenpool, where she could keep her opponent pinned against the wall post-SP2, endlessly spamming her Heavy to keep a 100% guaranteed bleed refreshing the Enervate. That was an unintended Exploit; and it seems like this was, too.

I do think it's a shame Kabam hasn't learned from past PR mistakes (like the Drax 'frame-rate' fix) and just slipped this into the Changelog. This clearly wasn't a simple 'Bug', but a widely known (unintended) ability which you must have known would lead to upset when it was removed.

My personal advice to the Kabam communication team (which isn't just the forum mods) would be: Kabam, fixing Exploits is fine; but you need to be more open about it, make a specific announcement; and call it what it is. We're (mostly) grown-ups on here - I think people would respond better if you treated them as such.

Johnmainlander

Mate.. U gotta understand. It's gonna go from grounded's paycheck...implying nothing, of course

Johnmainlander

GroundedWisdom said:

Human_Iceberg2 said:

Can’t talk trash about you here, but YouTube doesn’t ban trash talk against you and Kabam. We can all have a nice discussion about how you suck there instead

I'm pretty sure that was dealt with as well. You see, I'm quite aware of their Policies. I know what to do when issues arise.

Of course you do pal. You work for em

Aleor

Yes

Just don't nerf her, so no compensation required

DrZola

No compensation (and it’s restitution, not compensation—no one’s getting paid for work performed here). But only if no change to She-Hulk.

Her mechanics are unique, and she finally becomes relevant in the contest for a few months and the rug gets swept out from under her. Keep her as she is and move on.

Dr. Zola

iRetr0

Yes

People are still replying to the shills, get over yourselves guys 😂

Agentk24

Yes

Worknprogress said:

Don't get me wrong I don't like how they handled this but they've never handled any situation like this well.

Not sure why anyone is surprised. If a champ is doing something very beneficial that isn't explicitly stated, it's getting changed.

I didn't rank AA for LoL so cared far less about his change than others. I sure had a lot of mystic defenders though and that MD change ruined my defense. Those were things that were flat out stated to be working as intended but got changed anyway with no RDT or compensation that came.

If you've been playing this game for a few years and still ranked SH for that sole reason, well shame on you for not learning.

Few points tons of other champs can do this and they’ve been able to since the beginning also another quake doesn’t have it stated in her abilities she can indefinitely hold heavy ( or longer) so is quake going to get nerfed

Revendigo

Yes

Yes, kabam shouldn’t lure people into wasting resources on a character just to take away the reason that character was ranked up

Worknprogress

No

Agentk24 said:

Worknprogress said:

Don't get me wrong I don't like how they handled this but they've never handled any situation like this well.

Not sure why anyone is surprised. If a champ is doing something very beneficial that isn't explicitly stated, it's getting changed.

I didn't rank AA for LoL so cared far less about his change than others. I sure had a lot of mystic defenders though and that MD change ruined my defense. Those were things that were flat out stated to be working as intended but got changed anyway with no RDT or compensation that came.

If you've been playing this game for a few years and still ranked SH for that sole reason, well shame on you for not learning.

Few points tons of other champs can do this and they’ve been able to since the beginning also another quake doesn’t have it stated in her abilities she can indefinitely hold heavy ( or longer) so is quake going to get nerfed

None of those other champs cause an imbalance being able to do this currently otherwise I'd assume they'd be getting prioritized for a change as well.

Quakes ability states being able to evade basic attacks when concussion is active. She places concussion when charging heavy. Sounds like she's operating completely within her stated abilities to me. If you can find somewhere in she hulks description where it says anything about chaining heavies from combo, well then I wouldn't have a point then. I'll wait patiently for you to do so

RagamugginGunner

Yes

Just use my Science 2016 gem on her last week. I' def prefer to rank Gwen now.

Worknprogress

No

It's an absolute lost cause fighting against the change itself. It's a completely justified change.

I still feel what people should be upset about and what they should be calling for to be addressed is the yet again shambolic handling of a situation like this from kabam. You're fooling yourselves if you think the screeching is going to convince them to leave she hulk as is or issue rank down tickets. You really should be focusing on their atrocious lack of ability to communicate issues such as this prior to making a change.

GroundedWisdom

No

Johnmainlander said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Human_Iceberg2 said:

Can’t talk trash about you here, but YouTube doesn’t ban trash talk against you and Kabam. We can all have a nice discussion about how you suck there instead

I'm pretty sure that was dealt with as well. You see, I'm quite aware of their Policies. I know what to do when issues arise.

Of course you do pal. You work for em

I work for YouTube? No.

Jass007

Yes

There are many other champs who can chain heavy into combo!!!
https://youtu.be/9CH31Kyyk7g