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War counted towards season??

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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,317 ★★★★★
    Verzz said:

    Verzz said:

    Verzz said:

    Verzz said:

    Hey all,

    I have some news for you, but there is probably still more to come.

    First, any Alliance that received a Loss or Tie for War 5 will be compensated with their War Rating returned.

    All Alliances that took Part in War 5 will receive Per War Reward Compensation (win/exploration rewards, unless you already received them).

    The Season Score for that war will be Removed from all Alliances.

    There are still issue that need to be addressed, and we will get to those as soon as we can.

    Will alliances that have won have their war rating reduced also?
    If it was War 5, yes. That was the "War that doesn't count"
    Well at least it is something. It does not address any of the cascading effects of not freezing the war rating of war 5 that resulted in many alliances near the cutoff of tiers being in the wrong tier for 2 wars at least. Will there be any type of plan for this?
    That's a bit more complex I think. Being on the cusp doesn't guarantee they will win and move up. Not saying nothing could or should be done. Just pointing out that it brings me back to one of my previous statements. It's hard to compensate potential. They might have won and gone up. They might have lost and not.
    I am talking about those on the cusp before war 5 and then because of the result of that war affecting war rating then moved a tier (either up or down) for war 6 where they should not have been. There is no “potential” here, it is what has already happened that I am talking about
    They're removing the results, refunding individual Rewards, refunding War Rating, and wiping any Points earned from War 5, so what you're talking about is potential.
    I’m sorry, what are you going on about? I’m talking about war 6 and the current war where many alliances will have been in the wrong tier BECAUSE OF WAR 5. You keep using the word “potential” but I don’t think you know what it means. FYI - potential means something that could happen, not something that has already happened.
    How can you call it the wrong Tier when the results are wiped? You can't say they would have gone up or down. There's an underlying assumption that had they won, they would have either stayed or gone up. That entire trajectory is invalid because it's dependent on the results of something that's being discounted.
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    Thecurler said:

    What about alliances that fall into the category quoted below, is any adjustment being made to account for that?

    ...
    Our 5th war match up was a close war that we only just won, only 15 war rating between us and for the purpose of this example let's assume we had a similar points tally in the season.
    As a consequence of war rating not being frozen, we now have a war rating 100 points greater than theirs. This results in us facing the likelihood of a tougher match up in war 6 without the points benefit from war 5.
    In fact in our next war we faced an alliance with a rating 100 points greater than ours and no surprises, we lost.
    The alliance we faced in the 5th war had a much better chance of an easier match up and winning their 6th.
    At this point, there's every chance they won their easier war, we're both back to the same rating, fought the same number of wars but they're now 250-300k points ahead. We beat them fair and square in war 5 but end up disadvantaged as a consequence.

    (1) “beat them fair and square in war 5”
    Actually, no, well at least you don’t really know if you did (or even would have) beaten them fair and square. Kabam had let everyone know well before Attack day started for war 5 (in fact well before a lot of teams had even bothered filling the rest of Defense for that war) that the points would not count. So your opponent could have placed lesser defenders, or used lesser attackers, or decided not to spent on boosts, heals, etc.

    (2) RE: the fluctuating Up/Down of War Rating from that war, and effect on matching for War 6...
    Your alliance does NOT stay in a constant “bubble” of some “fixed” War Rating all season, whereby you always face alliances of the exact same (or close) fixed War Rating number each and every war. By definition, any Win (or Loss), for every single War, will result in the next War being against a slightly higher (or lower) Rated alliance than what you matched against in the previous war. But that doesn’t automatically mean that after you Win one that you will then always Lose the next one (or visa versa). It is extremely unlikely that teams are in such a narrowly defined band that they are limited to always going back and forth every War (WLWLWLWLWLWL). Being bumped up in War Rating by just one single war should not preclude your ability to Win again in the next war (or even potentially 3 or 4 wars in a row).

    Nor should 1 extra Win or Loss of the Win Bonus Points be reason to think an entire season to be “ruined”. At worst, it may only affect a small portion of teams that happen to be on the cups between one Medal Tier and the next at the end of the season. But so could any number of other matchups issues during the season that were maybe affected because of some other odd reason or another, or just the luck of the draw,, etc.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,317 ★★★★★
    Verzz said:

    Verzz said:

    Verzz said:

    Verzz said:

    Verzz said:

    Hey all,

    I have some news for you, but there is probably still more to come.

    First, any Alliance that received a Loss or Tie for War 5 will be compensated with their War Rating returned.

    All Alliances that took Part in War 5 will receive Per War Reward Compensation (win/exploration rewards, unless you already received them).

    The Season Score for that war will be Removed from all Alliances.

    There are still issue that need to be addressed, and we will get to those as soon as we can.

    Will alliances that have won have their war rating reduced also?
    If it was War 5, yes. That was the "War that doesn't count"
    Well at least it is something. It does not address any of the cascading effects of not freezing the war rating of war 5 that resulted in many alliances near the cutoff of tiers being in the wrong tier for 2 wars at least. Will there be any type of plan for this?
    That's a bit more complex I think. Being on the cusp doesn't guarantee they will win and move up. Not saying nothing could or should be done. Just pointing out that it brings me back to one of my previous statements. It's hard to compensate potential. They might have won and gone up. They might have lost and not.
    I am talking about those on the cusp before war 5 and then because of the result of that war affecting war rating then moved a tier (either up or down) for war 6 where they should not have been. There is no “potential” here, it is what has already happened that I am talking about
    They're removing the results, refunding individual Rewards, refunding War Rating, and wiping any Points earned from War 5, so what you're talking about is potential.
    I’m sorry, what are you going on about? I’m talking about war 6 and the current war where many alliances will have been in the wrong tier BECAUSE OF WAR 5. You keep using the word “potential” but I don’t think you know what it means. FYI - potential means something that could happen, not something that has already happened.
    How can you call it the wrong Tier when the results are wiped? You can't say they would have gone up or down. There's an underlying assumption that had they won, they would have either stayed or gone up. That entire trajectory is invalid because it's dependent on the results of something that's being discounted.</

    I guess I will have to spell it out again. Imagine an alliance that is on the t3/t4 edge before war 5. This alliance win/loses war 5 and then they get moved up or down a tier. Based on Kabam’s own statement that war 5 would not affect war rating these alliances are now in the wrong tier for war 6 which has already happened. They will not be able to fix it properly, the damage has been done. Although I am slightly hopeful that something else may be done as per Kabam Miike’s message I can’t see how this can be rectified. The solution is better than nothing so far but it’s far from a good one if this is all it is</p>


    There's no need to spell it out. I understood the first time it was said, and you still can't account for were Alliances should have/could have/would have gone when you discount the 5th War. You can't say they would have fallen, stayed the same, or risen. That's not something you can quantify. It's a potential outcome. You can generalize and compensate, but you can't compensate for a projection. "We would have gone up but we're in the wrong Tier." is not something you can assert because "wrong Tier" is an assumption that depends on a possibility of War 5 going a certain way. Making any sense?
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    Kabam MiikeKabam Miike Posts: 8,270
    Heads up everybody! The War Rating fix should be coming soon! We're starting it imminently, but it could take a while.
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    Also for reference is a new “Sticky” Thread Mike posted earlier today regarding issues this Season.

    First issue (war 5) of which Mike has already updated here in this ongoing thread, but Sticky also includes couple other issues (last war Enlistment 1 hour difference, and overall Season ending timer issue)...

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/186157/alliance-war-season-16-known-issues#latest
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,317 ★★★★★
    Verzz said:

    Verzz said:

    Verzz said:

    Verzz said:

    Verzz said:

    Verzz said:

    Hey all,

    I have some news for you, but there is probably still more to come.

    First, any Alliance that received a Loss or Tie for War 5 will be compensated with their War Rating returned.

    All Alliances that took Part in War 5 will receive Per War Reward Compensation (win/exploration rewards, unless you already received them).

    The Season Score for that war will be Removed from all Alliances.

    There are still issue that need to be addressed, and we will get to those as soon as we can.

    Will alliances that have won have their war rating reduced also?
    If it was War 5, yes. That was the "War that doesn't count"
    Well at least it is something. It does not address any of the cascading effects of not freezing the war rating of war 5 that resulted in many alliances near the cutoff of tiers being in the wrong tier for 2 wars at least. Will there be any type of plan for this?
    That's a bit more complex I think. Being on the cusp doesn't guarantee they will win and move up. Not saying nothing could or should be done. Just pointing out that it brings me back to one of my previous statements. It's hard to compensate potential. They might have won and gone up. They might have lost and not.
    I am talking about those on the cusp before war 5 and then because of the result of that war affecting war rating then moved a tier (either up or down) for war 6 where they should not have been. There is no “potential” here, it is what has already happened that I am talking about
    They're removing the results, refunding individual Rewards, refunding War Rating, and wiping any Points earned from War 5, so what you're talking about is potential.
    I’m sorry, what are you going on about? I’m talking about war 6 and the current war where many alliances will have been in the wrong tier BECAUSE OF WAR 5. You keep using the word “potential” but I don’t think you know what it means. FYI - potential means something that could happen, not something that has already happened.
    How can you call it the wrong Tier when the results are wiped? You can't say they would have gone up or down. There's an underlying assumption that had they won, they would have either stayed or gone up. That entire trajectory is invalid because it's dependent on the results of something that's being discounted.</

    I guess I will have to spell it out again. Imagine an alliance that is on the t3/t4 edge before war 5. This alliance win/loses war 5 and then they get moved up or down a tier. Based on Kabam’s own statement that war 5 would not affect war rating these alliances are now in the wrong tier for war 6 which has already happened. They will not be able to fix it properly, the damage has been done. Although I am slightly hopeful that something else may be done as per Kabam Miike’s message I can’t see how this can be rectified. The solution is better than nothing so far but it’s far from a good one if this is all it is</p>


    There's no need to spell it out. I understood the first time it was said, and you still can't account for were Alliances should have/could have/would have gone when you discount the 5th War. You can't say they would have fallen, stayed the same, or risen. That's not something you can quantify. It's a potential outcome. You can generalize and compensate, but you can't compensate for a projection. "We would have gone up but we're in the wrong Tier." is not something you can assert because "wrong Tier" is an assumption that depends on a possibility of War 5 going a certain way. Making any sense?
    Makes no sense at all. War 5 was supposed to not count (except for requirement for season rewards) according to kabam. So technically war 6 IS war 5 since this season is based on 11 wars. So yes, once again, WRONG TIER
    I don't know how people expected an immediate revert back to the way things were before War 5, but that wasn't possible.
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    ThecurlerThecurler Posts: 861 ★★★★

    Thecurler said:

    What about alliances that fall into the category quoted below, is any adjustment being made to account for that?

    ...
    Our 5th war match up was a close war that we only just won, only 15 war rating between us and for the purpose of this example let's assume we had a similar points tally in the season.
    As a consequence of war rating not being frozen, we now have a war rating 100 points greater than theirs. This results in us facing the likelihood of a tougher match up in war 6 without the points benefit from war 5.
    In fact in our next war we faced an alliance with a rating 100 points greater than ours and no surprises, we lost.
    The alliance we faced in the 5th war had a much better chance of an easier match up and winning their 6th.
    At this point, there's every chance they won their easier war, we're both back to the same rating, fought the same number of wars but they're now 250-300k points ahead. We beat them fair and square in war 5 but end up disadvantaged as a consequence.

    (1) “beat them fair and square in war 5”
    Actually, no, well at least you don’t really know if you did (or even would have) beaten them fair and square. Kabam had let everyone know well before Attack day started for war 5 (in fact well before a lot of teams had even bothered filling the rest of Defense for that war) that the points would not count. So your opponent could have placed lesser defenders, or used lesser attackers, or decided not to spent on boosts, heals, etc.

    (2) RE: the fluctuating Up/Down of War Rating from that war, and effect on matching for War 6...
    Your alliance does NOT stay in a constant “bubble” of some “fixed” War Rating all season, whereby you always face alliances of the exact same (or close) fixed War Rating number each and every war. By definition, any Win (or Loss), for every single War, will result in the next War being against a slightly higher (or lower) Rated alliance than what you matched against in the previous war. But that doesn’t automatically mean that after you Win one that you will then always Lose the next one (or visa versa). It is extremely unlikely that teams are in such a narrowly defined band that they are limited to always going back and forth every War (WLWLWLWLWLWL). Being bumped up in War Rating by just one single war should not preclude your ability to Win again in the next war (or even potentially 3 or 4 wars in a row).

    Nor should 1 extra Win or Loss of the Win Bonus Points be reason to think an entire season to be “ruined”. At worst, it may only affect a small portion of teams that happen to be on the cups between one Medal Tier and the next at the end of the season. But so could any number of other matchups issues during the season that were maybe affected because of some other odd reason or another, or just the luck of the draw,, etc.
    I've played enough wars to know when both are going at it. I guess you chose to ignore the "our 5th war was a close match up that we only just won". Opposition were boosting and using items, as were we. 100% exploration both teams.

    One win can absolutely make or break a season in terms of where you finish. One extra loss last season would have seen us finish p4 rather than p3.

    Fairly simple really, my alliance has been put at a disadvantage by winning the 5th war.
    You've written a long post obviously opposed to mine but you fundamentally failed to address the key point of my quoted post.

    So if you disagree that my alliance has been put at a disadvantage to the alliance we beat in the 5th war, please explain how?
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,317 ★★★★★
    Thecurler said:

    Thecurler said:

    What about alliances that fall into the category quoted below, is any adjustment being made to account for that?

    ...
    Our 5th war match up was a close war that we only just won, only 15 war rating between us and for the purpose of this example let's assume we had a similar points tally in the season.
    As a consequence of war rating not being frozen, we now have a war rating 100 points greater than theirs. This results in us facing the likelihood of a tougher match up in war 6 without the points benefit from war 5.
    In fact in our next war we faced an alliance with a rating 100 points greater than ours and no surprises, we lost.
    The alliance we faced in the 5th war had a much better chance of an easier match up and winning their 6th.
    At this point, there's every chance they won their easier war, we're both back to the same rating, fought the same number of wars but they're now 250-300k points ahead. We beat them fair and square in war 5 but end up disadvantaged as a consequence.

    (1) “beat them fair and square in war 5”
    Actually, no, well at least you don’t really know if you did (or even would have) beaten them fair and square. Kabam had let everyone know well before Attack day started for war 5 (in fact well before a lot of teams had even bothered filling the rest of Defense for that war) that the points would not count. So your opponent could have placed lesser defenders, or used lesser attackers, or decided not to spent on boosts, heals, etc.

    (2) RE: the fluctuating Up/Down of War Rating from that war, and effect on matching for War 6...
    Your alliance does NOT stay in a constant “bubble” of some “fixed” War Rating all season, whereby you always face alliances of the exact same (or close) fixed War Rating number each and every war. By definition, any Win (or Loss), for every single War, will result in the next War being against a slightly higher (or lower) Rated alliance than what you matched against in the previous war. But that doesn’t automatically mean that after you Win one that you will then always Lose the next one (or visa versa). It is extremely unlikely that teams are in such a narrowly defined band that they are limited to always going back and forth every War (WLWLWLWLWLWL). Being bumped up in War Rating by just one single war should not preclude your ability to Win again in the next war (or even potentially 3 or 4 wars in a row).

    Nor should 1 extra Win or Loss of the Win Bonus Points be reason to think an entire season to be “ruined”. At worst, it may only affect a small portion of teams that happen to be on the cups between one Medal Tier and the next at the end of the season. But so could any number of other matchups issues during the season that were maybe affected because of some other odd reason or another, or just the luck of the draw,, etc.
    I've played enough wars to know when both are going at it. I guess you chose to ignore the "our 5th war was a close match up that we only just won". Opposition were boosting and using items, as were we. 100% exploration both teams.

    One win can absolutely make or break a season in terms of where you finish. One extra loss last season would have seen us finish p4 rather than p3.

    Fairly simple really, my alliance has been put at a disadvantage by winning the 5th war.
    You've written a long post obviously opposed to mine but you fundamentally failed to address the key point of my quoted post.

    So if you disagree that my alliance has been put at a disadvantage to the alliance we beat in the 5th war, please explain how?
    Where you finish is entirely dependent on Points. The Points you put up compared to the Points others put up. Returning the War Rating lost and removing the Points won from all Alliances in the 5th War affects the final result. No matter who does what until the end of the Season, that has an affect on everyone's Rank.
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    Kabam MiikeKabam Miike Posts: 8,270

    Heads up everybody! The War Rating fix should be coming soon! We're starting it imminently, but it could take a while.

    Is there some detail on what exactly the fix will do? Will it just put everyone back at exactly the point where they were at between war 4 and 5, or will it also take into account the at this point 2 wars with 2 wins or losses that have taken place in between?

    Will everyone just gain/lose the war rating the gained/lost through war 5?
    Right now, just the Loss from War 5. We have to restore Season Score, and then see how that affects the actual standings before taking further action. The likelihood of those 2 wars after a score fix affecting your placement this early in the season is very low, but we won't know that for sure until it is fixed.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,317 ★★★★★
    It'll likely undo the Points from War 5, but it won't undo what's on the board since. That becomes a slippery slope, especially with one War already off the board. However, we're talking about one War variation. As Miike pointed out, restoring that shouldn't affect the standings greatly. Undoing 2 after that just makes it more compounding, and will probably skew things.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,317 ★★★★★
    Well, the board yes. Leaderboard. When you remove 3 Wars off the board instead of one, it starts to skew things. Meaning undoing the last 2 would likely complicate things more.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,317 ★★★★★
    I'm pretty sure what I said was congruent. Lol.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,317 ★★★★★
    I made a general comment while it was being discussed. I wasn't talking to you directly. This is creating a misunderstanding itself.
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    StellarStellar Posts: 1,069 ★★★★


    Right now, just the Loss from War 5. We have to restore Season Score, and then see how that affects the actual standings before taking further action. The likelihood of those 2 wars after a score fix affecting your placement this early in the season is very low, but we won't know that for sure until it is fixed.

    Before the war 5 we were Platinum 2 rank 25
    After the war 5 we were platinum 3 rank 22 ! but as you said it will not count we were not worried.
    We won war 6 and are now back to platinum 2 rank 45

    If the war 5 doesn't count, we should be next to platinum 1 now ?

    Am i right ?

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    DementedAllyDementedAlly Posts: 18
    edited March 2020

    According to the latest stickied thread on these AW issues, a fix has gone out just to remove the War 5 points you gained/lost. Kabam Miike states that "The War Rating adjustment has been completed." However, my alliance is still at the exact same ranking as before.

    Has anyone else had their alliance war ratings adjusted or am I misunderstanding what "The War Rating adjustment has been completed" means? Or perhaps they are waiting until this current attack phase of AW ends?
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    According to the latest stickied thread on these AW issues, a fix has gone out just to remove the War 5 points you gained/lost. Kabam Miike states that "The War Rating adjustment has been completed." However, my alliance is still at the exact same ranking as before.

    Has anyone else had their alliance war ratings adjusted or am I misunderstanding what "The War Rating adjustment has been completed" means? Or perhaps they are waiting until this current attack phase of AW ends?

    @DementedAlly , Miike said War Rating, not any of the Points yet. And so Ranking (based on Points, different from Rating) hasn’t been adjusted yet.

    And keep in mind that the War 5 will still most likely be staying in the History Tab. And any of the corrected Points from recalculation of Tiers (Multiplier) to disregard +/- from War 5 probably won’t be reflected on History Tab later on either. (the other time they readjusted many seasons ago, the History didn’t change, just the overall points did).

    Our War Rating has been adjusted back up from the War 5 Loss amount.

    And other item (End of Season countdown timer) is now correct as well.
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    DabNation1DabNation1 Posts: 22
    Is there really a way this can be fixed fairly since it has been 2 wars already. The points being reversed is the least of the issues. The war raiting change is huge. If loosing a war automatically dropped your ally a teir and made another ally jump up a tier the discrepancy is huge. Especially if you end the season on the cusp of a bracket. Who is to say you losing that war automatically and getting knocked into teir 5, while the ally you faced won and got knocked into teir 4, Did not make a huge impact on points. With the points falling correctly the ally who automatically lost would have to win two in a row to get back to teir 4 while the ally who won could have just got an extra .5 muiltplier for there next two wars. The allies you face during season are the same allies your competing against for placement. That means they can inch you out by 50k points and take a spot in the next bracket that you would have had. It just seems way to messy to fix in a fair matter. I know the issue it self is out of kabams control and no matter what they do they will have people complaining, but it’s something to think about.
    Thoughts on this insight @Kabam Miike
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    DodgerDogDodgerDog Posts: 86
    I think we are still waiting? After maintenance tonight?
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    SummonerNRSummonerNR Posts: 10,998 Guardian
    edited March 2020
    Maybe best thing to do for the various teams that may or may not ultimately be affected surrounding the cutoff line between different Medal Rank Tiers would be just INCREASE the # of Ally's that qualify for the various Medal Ranks at end of this Season.

    So if an Ally had missed a certain final Medal Rank by some reasonable amount, they would get that higher Rank Reward anyways.

    NOT saying that every alliance out there should be given 1 Medal Rank Higher, but that those within proximity to the cutoffs WOULD.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,317 ★★★★★

    Maybe best thing to do for the various teams that may or may not ultimately be affected surrounding the cutoff line between different Medal Rank Tiers would be just INCREASE the # of Ally's that qualify for the various Medal Ranks at end of this Season.

    So if an Ally had missed a certain final Medal Rank by some reasonable amount, they would get that higher Rank Reward anyways.

    NOT saying that every alliance out there should be given 1 Medal Rank Higher, but that those within proximity to the cutoffs WOULD.

    Problem is, you can't guarantee they would have. Adjusting the War Rating and removing the Points wipes any progress from War 5. It is after all, one War. Had the War not malfunctioned, it would have gone as normal. Someone would have won, someone would have lost, and the Season would have continued. However, we can't say they would have made their cutoff because we can't say they would have won. That's just giving a guarantee that doesn't exist. I mean, I personally don't have any objections to your idea if they choose to do that. I'm just reiterating the point I made before. Being close to the cutoff doesn't entitle Alliances to make it by default. Aside from that, I don't see one War shifting it much, especially when it's being icksnayed.
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