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Flow global node in War [Merged Threads]

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Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    My concern isn't who uses what. It's not even that people think the Node is OP. My concern is stagnancy. No idea why you're playing 3 Accounts in Tiers 1-5, but that's besides the point. Regardless of who we bring, we will have to switch strategies eventually. The last thing I want is a game that dies out because it becomes repetitive motions without change. That's exactly what happens when nothing throws curve balls or switches up from time to time. The game becomes stale and monotonous. When nothing changes or brings different challenges, I start to worry about the future of the game as a whole. This is one Node. Which won't be around indefinitely itself.
  • PlantesanPlantesan Posts: 335 ★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    My concern isn't who uses what. It's not even that people think the Node is OP. My concern is stagnancy. No idea why you're playing 3 Accounts in Tiers 1-5, but that's besides the point. Regardless of who we bring, we will have to switch strategies eventually. The last thing I want is a game that dies out because it becomes repetitive motions without change. That's exactly what happens when nothing throws curve balls or switches up from time to time. The game becomes stale and monotonous. When nothing changes or brings different challenges, I start to worry about the future of the game as a whole. This is one Node. Which won't be around indefinitely itself.

    This particular game mode has been stale for a while, since it’s the only way to get loyalty (outside of the 1000 daily from hitting the help button) in the game, with no alternative. That just makes this node a forced “deal with it or don’t collect” situation...
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    Jestress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    My concern isn't who uses what. It's not even that people think the Node is OP. My concern is stagnancy. No idea why you're playing 3 Accounts in Tiers 1-5, but that's besides the point. Regardless of who we bring, we will have to switch strategies eventually. The last thing I want is a game that dies out because it becomes repetitive motions without change. That's exactly what happens when nothing throws curve balls or switches up from time to time. The game becomes stale and monotonous. When nothing changes or brings different challenges, I start to worry about the future of the game as a whole. This is one Node. Which won't be around indefinitely itself.

    Based on everything you're saying, I assume you've actually played against Flow Tactics in Tiers 1-5 @GroundedWisdom?
    I'd be curious to see how you got that from what I said. Do you think that being in Tiers 1-5 exempts people from having to change strategies?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    Jestress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Jestress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    My concern isn't who uses what. It's not even that people think the Node is OP. My concern is stagnancy. No idea why you're playing 3 Accounts in Tiers 1-5, but that's besides the point. Regardless of who we bring, we will have to switch strategies eventually. The last thing I want is a game that dies out because it becomes repetitive motions without change. That's exactly what happens when nothing throws curve balls or switches up from time to time. The game becomes stale and monotonous. When nothing changes or brings different challenges, I start to worry about the future of the game as a whole. This is one Node. Which won't be around indefinitely itself.

    Based on everything you're saying, I assume you've actually played against Flow Tactics in Tiers 1-5 @GroundedWisdom?
    I'd be curious to see how you got that from what I said. Do you think that being in Tiers 1-5 exempts people from having to change strategies?
    Absolutely not. But I don't think you should be dishing out opinions on content that you don't play if you haven't experienced it first hand.
    Did I say people were wrong that it was OP? Did I say my experience led me to believe it was fine? Pretty sure I didn't.
  • TheInfintyTheInfinty Posts: 1,382 ★★★★
    edited April 2020
    At least I’m my mind it think a way that kabam should do stun immune match ups maybe a way you can remove flow is by doing intercepts or countering heavy attacks there has to be at least something on stun immune nodes to at least be able to stop flow
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    KnightZero said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    FreeToPlay_21 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    So why don't people use the 3 counters available? CB has been around for ages, same with Quake. You can't use the same Champs indefinitely.

    Because some players might not have those three counters. I myself don't have any of the three Champions. Even in that, there are match-ups where even these three Champions can fall flat.

    Crossbones, in some match-ups doesn't have enough damage to end the matches, Quake can be screwed over by IMIWs etc. There are just so many variables and so few counters.
    Tiers 1-5 shouldn't really be doable for most Players. Their Rosters should be pretty wide by that point. Wide enough to have at least one of the counters. CB has been in the game for years. Quake after. Can you get stopped up? Yes. That's War. It's not AQ, where you have the same Map week after week and guaranteed Rewards with the same strategies. It should be different now and then. Whenever something is introduced that requires playing differently, people are upset. Why? Human Beings, and Gamers, are creatures of habit. They don't like change much. Only the game can't have longevity if everyone relies on Corvus indefinitely, or Ghost, or SW back in the day. Always a go-to Champ around, but there's no game-winner in this game. It will shift eventually. Otherwise we won't grow in the game, and neither will the game itself.
    I really don't get why you keep saying that T1-T5 shouldn't be doable lol. Everything should be doable should you have the skill. But flow is cutting out skill for most part. As I've said in another thread, Kabam has been a strict advocate for the fact that every champ is useful and so on. Well, flow is in complete contrast to that. 90% of the champs become useless with flow. Even on non stun immune nodes, champs just go passive 50% of the time with the power gain.
    Usually don't say this, but you wouldn't understand the difficulty without playing it. I never thought flow was this hard from what the node described. The second I faced it, my time changed.
    Where did they say that every Champ should be useful for every bit of content?
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 1,416 ★★★★★
    Assuming that you're in a top tier so giving **** nodes is fair is like telling that a player who completes Act 6 fully that piling on bs nodes with only 1-2 counters is fair.
    In the end, it's a game. Noone wants to play a game where the AI is garbage and you just have to sit there praying that specials get baited while the opponent just gains power. Can literally screw diversity half the time if you keep enough of the Top level Flow champs on the annoying nodes. Going to get kills anyway.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Jestress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Jestress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Jestress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    My concern isn't who uses what. It's not even that people think the Node is OP. My concern is stagnancy. No idea why you're playing 3 Accounts in Tiers 1-5, but that's besides the point. Regardless of who we bring, we will have to switch strategies eventually. The last thing I want is a game that dies out because it becomes repetitive motions without change. That's exactly what happens when nothing throws curve balls or switches up from time to time. The game becomes stale and monotonous. When nothing changes or brings different challenges, I start to worry about the future of the game as a whole. This is one Node. Which won't be around indefinitely itself.

    Based on everything you're saying, I assume you've actually played against Flow Tactics in Tiers 1-5 @GroundedWisdom?
    I'd be curious to see how you got that from what I said. Do you think that being in Tiers 1-5 exempts people from having to change strategies?
    Absolutely not. But I don't think you should be dishing out opinions on content that you don't play if you haven't experienced it first hand.
    Did I say people were wrong that it was OP? Did I say my experience led me to believe it was fine? Pretty sure I didn't.
    I'd enjoy hearing your feedback on how a R5 Crossbones performs in Tiers 1-5. Let me know.
    He actually does fairly well against a select few matchups depending on the nodes. Problem is there are far more bad matchups than good for him
  • OnmixOnmix Posts: 508 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Jestress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Jestress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    My concern isn't who uses what. It's not even that people think the Node is OP. My concern is stagnancy. No idea why you're playing 3 Accounts in Tiers 1-5, but that's besides the point. Regardless of who we bring, we will have to switch strategies eventually. The last thing I want is a game that dies out because it becomes repetitive motions without change. That's exactly what happens when nothing throws curve balls or switches up from time to time. The game becomes stale and monotonous. When nothing changes or brings different challenges, I start to worry about the future of the game as a whole. This is one Node. Which won't be around indefinitely itself.

    Based on everything you're saying, I assume you've actually played against Flow Tactics in Tiers 1-5 @GroundedWisdom?
    I'd be curious to see how you got that from what I said. Do you think that being in Tiers 1-5 exempts people from having to change strategies?
    Absolutely not. But I don't think you should be dishing out opinions on content that you don't play if you haven't experienced it first hand.
    Did I say people were wrong that it was OP? Did I say my experience led me to believe it was fine? Pretty sure I didn't.
    Your concern is stagnancy.
    How is this global helping that concern?

    Because the frustration many are having with this global is more dangerous to the game (at least right now) than stagnancy.
  • OnmixOnmix Posts: 508 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    So why don't people use the 3 counters available? CB has been around for ages, same with Quake. You can't use the same Champs indefinitely.

    Because they aren’t a reliable option. As many have stated, there are just 3 options which have many downsides in war and can’t cover for all possible matchups.

    Plus. I’m in Tier 3 and don’t have any of those 3 champs. So no. Not everybody in Tier 1-3 has them.
  • Dsc0721Dsc0721 Posts: 83 ★
    Flow is overturned. Just like siphon was. Just wait it will be toned down and then they well have another broken global. Atleast siphon you could use most champs against.
  • Dsc0721Dsc0721 Posts: 83 ★
    @GroundedWisdom if this node encouraged using a wide variety of outside the box Champs and steered people away from the ghost and Corvus play they are used to that would be one thing but encouraging and near mandating 3-5 champs puts aw in the exact same stagnant state you have suggested kabam is trying to prevent.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    There was a point to what I was saying. It was apparently missed. For the time being, it's being used. So the best option is to use the best strategy possible. It won't likely be used indefinitely as these Nodes shift, but they're not going to stop the Season to take away Flow at this point. My minor point is at that level, there should be some challenge factor. Simply put, it's the highest Tiers with the highest payout. It's not unreasonable to have to narrow down Roster choices. As for whether it's too much, I can't argue it is or it isn't. I don't think the idea of making it harder to deal with the top is an unnatural concept. People don't always get through K.O.-free. That's just a part of War at any stage. If it isn't, something is wrong with the system.
  • SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Posts: 21,804 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    KnightZero said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    FreeToPlay_21 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    So why don't people use the 3 counters available? CB has been around for ages, same with Quake. You can't use the same Champs indefinitely.

    Because some players might not have those three counters. I myself don't have any of the three Champions. Even in that, there are match-ups where even these three Champions can fall flat.

    Crossbones, in some match-ups doesn't have enough damage to end the matches, Quake can be screwed over by IMIWs etc. There are just so many variables and so few counters.
    Tiers 1-5 shouldn't really be doable for most Players. Their Rosters should be pretty wide by that point. Wide enough to have at least one of the counters. CB has been in the game for years. Quake after. Can you get stopped up? Yes. That's War. It's not AQ, where you have the same Map week after week and guaranteed Rewards with the same strategies. It should be different now and then. Whenever something is introduced that requires playing differently, people are upset. Why? Human Beings, and Gamers, are creatures of habit. They don't like change much. Only the game can't have longevity if everyone relies on Corvus indefinitely, or Ghost, or SW back in the day. Always a go-to Champ around, but there's no game-winner in this game. It will shift eventually. Otherwise we won't grow in the game, and neither will the game itself.
    I really don't get why you keep saying that T1-T5 shouldn't be doable lol. Everything should be doable should you have the skill. But flow is cutting out skill for most part. As I've said in another thread, Kabam has been a strict advocate for the fact that every champ is useful and so on. Well, flow is in complete contrast to that. 90% of the champs become useless with flow. Even on non stun immune nodes, champs just go passive 50% of the time with the power gain.
    Usually don't say this, but you wouldn't understand the difficulty without playing it. I never thought flow was this hard from what the node described. The second I faced it, my time changed.
    Where did they say that every Champ should be useful for every bit of content?
    They didn’t. They said that every champ will/ should be useful. Like how Quake is good for a lot of content but isn’t good for true strike. Not every champ should be useful for everything, but a wide variety of champs should be useful for a certain node, instead of the three counters here.
  • Panchulon21Panchulon21 Posts: 2,605 ★★★★★
    I definitely think the node is broken. We don’t run into it much but it requires too much luck and very l little skill to counter.

    I got pretty lucky last war and faced a Claire on debuff who was running suicides. The flow helped me because she kept triggering a special 1, but the node before that I didn’t get so much with warlock.

    Flow takes away the skill part of war and brings in items and a lot of luck.

    And talking about just 2 counters that’s not a fair point. In my case I bring in multiple different champs to war in tier 4/5.

    5/65- stark, blade, beardo, warlock, ghost, Claire, voodoo, movie marvel
    2/35- gladiator hulk and wasp
    4/55- she hulk, stealth, rider, torch

    It all depends on what’s needed
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 1,416 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    KnightZero said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    FreeToPlay_21 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    So why don't people use the 3 counters available? CB has been around for ages, same with Quake. You can't use the same Champs indefinitely.

    Because some players might not have those three counters. I myself don't have any of the three Champions. Even in that, there are match-ups where even these three Champions can fall flat.

    Crossbones, in some match-ups doesn't have enough damage to end the matches, Quake can be screwed over by IMIWs etc. There are just so many variables and so few counters.
    Tiers 1-5 shouldn't really be doable for most Players. Their Rosters should be pretty wide by that point. Wide enough to have at least one of the counters. CB has been in the game for years. Quake after. Can you get stopped up? Yes. That's War. It's not AQ, where you have the same Map week after week and guaranteed Rewards with the same strategies. It should be different now and then. Whenever something is introduced that requires playing differently, people are upset. Why? Human Beings, and Gamers, are creatures of habit. They don't like change much. Only the game can't have longevity if everyone relies on Corvus indefinitely, or Ghost, or SW back in the day. Always a go-to Champ around, but there's no game-winner in this game. It will shift eventually. Otherwise we won't grow in the game, and neither will the game itself.
    I really don't get why you keep saying that T1-T5 shouldn't be doable lol. Everything should be doable should you have the skill. But flow is cutting out skill for most part. As I've said in another thread, Kabam has been a strict advocate for the fact that every champ is useful and so on. Well, flow is in complete contrast to that. 90% of the champs become useless with flow. Even on non stun immune nodes, champs just go passive 50% of the time with the power gain.
    Usually don't say this, but you wouldn't understand the difficulty without playing it. I never thought flow was this hard from what the node described. The second I faced it, my time changed.
    Where did they say that every Champ should be useful for every bit of content?
    Might not have said the exact words, but they definitely meant that each champ should be usable in content. With Flow, most champs aren't.
    War is supposed to be about strategy. That was the entire point about removing hidden nodes. So that you can plan for different types of champs. What on Earth can you plan if only a few champs are viable?
    And not everyone has those champs.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 1,416 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    There was a point to what I was saying. It was apparently missed. For the time being, it's being used. So the best option is to use the best strategy possible. It won't likely be used indefinitely as these Nodes shift, but they're not going to stop the Season to take away Flow at this point. My minor point is at that level, there should be some challenge factor. Simply put, it's the highest Tiers with the highest payout. It's not unreasonable to have to narrow down Roster choices. As for whether it's too much, I can't argue it is or it isn't. I don't think the idea of making it harder to deal with the top is an unnatural concept. People don't always get through K.O.-free. That's just a part of War at any stage. If it isn't, something is wrong with the system.

    There is literally no strategy lol. It's pray to RNG God's that they throw specials or that you have the champs. Or just aim for boss/item out.
    Secondly, flow threads have been open for 3+ weeks. Zero replies from mods. Except the single one to close a thread.
    Lastly, narrowing down choices is done by the local nodes that are waaaay harder than lower tiers. That's the entire point of them changing. Adding globals was something new, that people were fine with given that they are manageable. Not narrowing roster selection down to max 10 champs out of 150+.
  • pseudosanepseudosane Posts: 3,812 Guardian
    It is funny it was never tested and thrown out there in its current state. Just like siphon was. Defense tactics just leech our items away. When are offensive tactics coming back? Those were incredibly fun. Now it is have X counter to Y champ, and oh, deal with this broken global while you are at it.
    Oh, and healing too much? Here are these unit potions to help!
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    KnightZero said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    KnightZero said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    FreeToPlay_21 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    So why don't people use the 3 counters available? CB has been around for ages, same with Quake. You can't use the same Champs indefinitely.

    Because some players might not have those three counters. I myself don't have any of the three Champions. Even in that, there are match-ups where even these three Champions can fall flat.

    Crossbones, in some match-ups doesn't have enough damage to end the matches, Quake can be screwed over by IMIWs etc. There are just so many variables and so few counters.
    Tiers 1-5 shouldn't really be doable for most Players. Their Rosters should be pretty wide by that point. Wide enough to have at least one of the counters. CB has been in the game for years. Quake after. Can you get stopped up? Yes. That's War. It's not AQ, where you have the same Map week after week and guaranteed Rewards with the same strategies. It should be different now and then. Whenever something is introduced that requires playing differently, people are upset. Why? Human Beings, and Gamers, are creatures of habit. They don't like change much. Only the game can't have longevity if everyone relies on Corvus indefinitely, or Ghost, or SW back in the day. Always a go-to Champ around, but there's no game-winner in this game. It will shift eventually. Otherwise we won't grow in the game, and neither will the game itself.
    I really don't get why you keep saying that T1-T5 shouldn't be doable lol. Everything should be doable should you have the skill. But flow is cutting out skill for most part. As I've said in another thread, Kabam has been a strict advocate for the fact that every champ is useful and so on. Well, flow is in complete contrast to that. 90% of the champs become useless with flow. Even on non stun immune nodes, champs just go passive 50% of the time with the power gain.
    Usually don't say this, but you wouldn't understand the difficulty without playing it. I never thought flow was this hard from what the node described. The second I faced it, my time changed.
    Where did they say that every Champ should be useful for every bit of content?
    Might not have said the exact words, but they definitely meant that each champ should be usable in content. With Flow, most champs aren't.
    War is supposed to be about strategy. That was the entire point about removing hidden nodes. So that you can plan for different types of champs. What on Earth can you plan if only a few champs are viable?
    And not everyone has those champs.
    No. They never implied that each Champ should be usable in all content. On the contrary, they've always encouraged people to explore all options, and in recent times, quite specifically stated that more limitations will be added. For someone starting the game out, that might be true. Any Champ could be used for the majority of content. Getting closer to the top, it's naive to think you should be able to interchange any Champ in your Roster for any content. You have to limit what people use to make it a challenge. Especially with the number of Champs available and the breadth of Rosters these days.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    As for whether this Node is too far or not, again I'm not arguing that. In general though, there will be limits.
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