Once agains this is just a false equivalency, this bug is like a cop accidentally leaving 10 lbs of meth in a jail cell with addicts and being angry at meth addicts for using it. The game is created with the purpose of addiction. It is how it generates income. Kabam holds the majority of fault here. Test what you release before you release it
You know what this bug is most like? It is like when an exploit shows up in an online game and players exploit it, and then the game company bans them. Honestly, this is not some weird novel situation that has never existed in the world before or that doesn't have decades of history behind it now that we have to struggle with analogies to figure it out.
Kabam holds *all* the fault for the actual bug. So of course they are the ones fixing it. But the players who exploited the bug are responsible for their own actions, period. If anyone thinks farming rewards in MCOC is in any way analogous to opioid addiction, they should immediately delete the game from their phone. Anything else would be something between hypocrisy and idiocy.
Everyone is responsible for their own actions. If you're someone who feels that temptation is an excuse for bad behavior, you probably shouldn't be playing mobile games, and honestly probably shouldn't own a phone or be allowed on the internet either.
I was inclined to respond to that, but I'm amiss at the comparison to meth. Even when discussing recovery from addiction, taking responsibility for one's actions is a part of working a program. Not that I see any comparison whatsoever.
I'm bloody glad people are getting bans for exploiting that. Yes the bug was by Kabam,but that doesn't mean you'll act oblivious to it and collect a bunch of rare items. Eat s***.
Once agains this is just a false equivalency, this bug is like a cop accidentally leaving 10 lbs of meth in a jail cell with addicts and being angry at meth addicts for using it. The game is created with the purpose of addiction. It is how it generates income. Kabam holds the majority of fault here. Test what you release before you release it
You know what this bug is most like? It is like when an exploit shows up in an online game and players exploit it, and then the game company bans them. Honestly, this is not some weird novel situation that has never existed in the world before or that doesn't have decades of history behind it now that we have to struggle with analogies to figure it out.
Kabam holds *all* the fault for the actual bug. So of course they are the ones fixing it. But the players who exploited the bug are responsible for their own actions, period. If anyone thinks farming rewards in MCOC is in any way analogous to opioid addiction, they should immediately delete the game from their phone. Anything else would be something between hypocrisy and idiocy.
Everyone is responsible for their own actions. If you're someone who feels that temptation is an excuse for bad behavior, you probably shouldn't be playing mobile games, and honestly probably shouldn't own a phone or be allowed on the internet either.
I was inclined to respond to that, but I'm amiss at the comparison to meth. Even when discussing recovery from addiction, taking responsibility for one's actions is a part of working a program. Not that I see any comparison whatsoever.
The SHADE
Unintended, but perhaps. I'm waiting to see if my friend won Canada's Drag Race.
Once agains this is just a false equivalency, this bug is like a cop accidentally leaving 10 lbs of meth in a jail cell with addicts and being angry at meth addicts for using it. The game is created with the purpose of addiction. It is how it generates income. Kabam holds the majority of fault here. Test what you release before you release it
You know what this bug is most like? It is like when an exploit shows up in an online game and players exploit it, and then the game company bans them. Honestly, this is not some weird novel situation that has never existed in the world before or that doesn't have decades of history behind it now that we have to struggle with analogies to figure it out.
Kabam holds *all* the fault for the actual bug. So of course they are the ones fixing it. But the players who exploited the bug are responsible for their own actions, period. If anyone thinks farming rewards in MCOC is in any way analogous to opioid addiction, they should immediately delete the game from their phone. Anything else would be something between hypocrisy and idiocy.
Everyone is responsible for their own actions. If you're someone who feels that temptation is an excuse for bad behavior, you probably shouldn't be playing mobile games, and honestly probably shouldn't own a phone or be allowed on the internet either.
I was inclined to respond to that, but I'm amiss at the comparison to meth. Even when discussing recovery from addiction, taking responsibility for one's actions is a part of working a program. Not that I see any comparison whatsoever.
The SHADE
Unintended, but perhaps. I'm waiting to see if my friend won Canada's Drag Race.
Girl, the judging was worse than Kabam's initiative to fix bugs lmao
Once agains this is just a false equivalency, this bug is like a cop accidentally leaving 10 lbs of meth in a jail cell with addicts and being angry at meth addicts for using it. The game is created with the purpose of addiction. It is how it generates income. Kabam holds the majority of fault here. Test what you release before you release it
You know what this bug is most like? It is like when an exploit shows up in an online game and players exploit it, and then the game company bans them. Honestly, this is not some weird novel situation that has never existed in the world before or that doesn't have decades of history behind it now that we have to struggle with analogies to figure it out.
Kabam holds *all* the fault for the actual bug. So of course they are the ones fixing it. But the players who exploited the bug are responsible for their own actions, period. If anyone thinks farming rewards in MCOC is in any way analogous to opioid addiction, they should immediately delete the game from their phone. Anything else would be something between hypocrisy and idiocy.
Everyone is responsible for their own actions. If you're someone who feels that temptation is an excuse for bad behavior, you probably shouldn't be playing mobile games, and honestly probably shouldn't own a phone or be allowed on the internet either.
I was inclined to respond to that, but I'm amiss at the comparison to meth. Even when discussing recovery from addiction, taking responsibility for one's actions is a part of working a program. Not that I see any comparison whatsoever.
The SHADE
Unintended, but perhaps. I'm waiting to see if my friend won Canada's Drag Race.
Girl, the judging was worse than Kabam's initiative to fix bugs lmao
A bit off-topic, but I agreed until I saw that JBC deleted his Twitter, and Bobo let people have it on FB. The Interwebs can be harsh. Anywho, PM me and we can spill some tea sometime.
Lots of pro-Kabam sounding comments so far ... interesting!!!
There's no pro-Kabam position in any of this. Kabam made a horrible mistake in allowing this design flaw to appear, and that's that. If anyone is arguing differently, they are just wrong. But trying to claim that Kabam's mistake excuses player cheating behavior is a bridge way, way too far. There's some people who think we're only required to play fair if we are forced to, and if we aren't forced to play fair it is not their fault if they break the rules. In other words, rules should be impossible to break, not e
The way this was handled was somewhat jarring. As with most things in life, if there's an opportunity to gain an advantage via a discrepancy or a loophole, some people will exploit it regardless of the consequences.
I think a warning for first time offenders and a 48 hour ban for past transgressors would have been a more sensible approach. Also, if the content had been properly tested prior to and immediately upon release, this situation would not have occurred. And, it's virtually become the norm for new content to have something go wrong on release, but only on this occasion players had a ridiculous advantage as opposed to being habitually under the cosh.
Perusing through the comments, some have asserted the situation is analogous to shoplifting or other similar clunky representations. I'm afraid none are even remotely in the same ballpark. Moreover, to even try to compare malfunctioning game content to tangible situations is a pointless exercise. It's much simpler to frame this if we look at problem at its root; to wit, x company has made a mistake and consumers have exploited this. Indeed, there are three recent situations we can apply this to, where the aforementioned occurred:
i) An airline company had a promotion on flights but released it with incorrect pricing. Thousands took advantage and bought tickets.
ii) A major retailer's customer loyalty scheme had a special promotion which incorrectly allowed customers to buy items for pennies if they bought just one item from a selected list. Plenty of customers bought a list item and got a basketload of other groceries for much less than what the list item cost.
iii) A major bank's ATM went haywire and began paying out money even if you had none in your account. Word got out and scores if not hundreds of account holders took advantage before the bank noticed the problem and shut the machine down.
In the first two instances, the respective companies took ownership of their mistake and allowed the customers to keep their gains. In the final case, the bank had to take the matter to court to retrieve the money from a few account holders. The judgement went their way but the payback terms made the whole exercise a phyrric victory; weekly payments of £1-2 a week as virtually all were unemployed and on benefits.
Many companies make mistakes when setting up and releasing promotions for their products. When customers take advantage of this, most companies don't bother to clawback their losses as the PR disaster that would emerge as a result could become an existential threat to their future prosperity. Indeed, this is almost always the case, albeit in the ToS of the promotion it will clearly state "we reserve the right to withdraw services and goods at any time" with a plethora of hypothetical scenarios that could make this a possibility. Indeed, not much different to our current predicament.
On a side note, I'm not affected by this in any way personally or as an alliance member and I have no motivation or ulterior motives; I'm simply expressing my thoughts as a fellow gamer...
You seem to think ther is some magic amount of testing that is “adequte enough” to find all buts, there is not. In addition the first 2 are mistakes in advertising, and a reasonable person would not have expected them to be incorrect, because you cannot know if those were incorrect or not. The third you mention the payback of the money that was “phyrric”, but that is just the CIVIL acction, you are ignoring the CRIMINAL action against those people.
The most important distinction between those situations and this one is that in those situations all of the losses were from the company itself. They could decide to recoup those losses or let them go, because the only loser in those errors was the company.
But when a player cheats an online game, the losers are not the game operator. It is the other players in the game whom they just acquired an unfair advantage over. In that respect it is nothing like one person getting a freebee from a company, because in that situation the person gains and the company loses. In the banking situation the bank lost money and the people who exploited the malfunctioning ATM got money. All other banking customers were unaffected.
Suppose any one of those entities said okay, it was our error so we're just going to let it go. Instead we're just going to claw the losses back from the rest of our customers. I think people would look at the policy of "letting it go" a whole lot differently.
That's unavoidable in MCOC, because I'm not talking about Kabam raising prices on offers. I'm talking about every alliance that loses to an alliance that contains players that received more rewards than they were supposed to. Every alliance that places lower in AQ because an alliance gained more prestige and jumped them. And a thousand other little ways in which players who gain unfair advantages over other players will lift their own gameplay on the backs of other players they will push downward. That's completely unavoidable, and something Kabam can never compensate for.
If people think Kabam is just supposed to let this go because they have some delusion that this is how "good companies" do it in the real world, I think they just don't understand how online games work or possibly how life works. If a company wants to let customers keep stuff they accidentally give away, I don't care. But if a company wants to give unfair advantages to some customers at my expense then I very much do care, and I suspect it would be a public relations nightmare if a company were to do that. Everyone is fine with corporations coming out behind. But when a few customers get away with cheating the system at the other customers expense that's when you have riots.
I wish these examples from Unit Mastery Marketing 101 would factor the actual real world situation into them.
I don't care about what they do with SA points. I would like SA and AQ rewards to come though...
Thats funny cause i dont remember asking you if u cared...
wow. pretty sure the forums is for OPEN discussion, not everything has to get approved by you
Yay here comes batman to rescue people in distress... Sure it is for discussion, discussion about the thread. I wrote a thread about rankings and points.. he says he doesnt care he wants the rewards... Therefore my answer... Its like going to the market and asking the price of a new york steak and having the next person in line..saying "i dont care about the new york steak.. where is the chicken..."
Couldn’t this have waited until after aw? I didn’t get banned but several in the ally did and now our war will likely go down the toilet. Why couldn’t you have just waited to do this until after aw so all the people who didn’t exploit wouldn’t get screwed as well?
Couldn't you have just not exploited a bug?
Are you illiterate? I said I didn’t get banned. The timing of this was just so poor and wouldn’t it have made more sense to fix the event before banning people?
Either way, the people who exploited should have thought about that. Super happy to see the bans.
This is what happens when you come to forums thinking you are de-escalating the situation but end up making it worse.
De-escalation almost always never works around these parts.
You’re playing a game, if it lets you do something without hacking then you’ve played within the parameters that the maker put out.
It must be all kinds of fun playing Monopoly with you. As far as I'm aware, there's no rule that says you can't eat the other players' hotels.
You can’t remove someone else’s hotel. So that would not be within the parameters of the game.
The official rules cover when you can buy a hotel, how hotel auctions work, what to do when you run out of the limited supply of them in the game, and when you must sell them back to the bank. There is no rule that says you cannot eat another player's hotel.
You’re playing a game, if it lets you do something without hacking then you’ve played within the parameters that the maker put out.
It must be all kinds of fun playing Monopoly with you. As far as I'm aware, there's no rule that says you can't eat the other players' hotels.
You can’t remove someone else’s hotel. So that would not be within the parameters of the game.
The official rules cover when you can buy a hotel, how hotel auctions work, what to do when you run out of the limited supply of them in the game, and when you must sell them back to the bank. There is no rule that says you cannot eat another player's hotel.
Whatever it’s not my issue I was waiting for the map to come out so I have not run a single path. The burden is on the multi million dollar company to make sure when they release something it’s right. Man would it be great if I got to blame my customers for taking advantage of every time my company messed up.
whatever it’s not my issue I was waiting for the map to come out so I have not run a single path. The burden is on the multi million dollar company to make sure when they release something it’s right. Man would it be great if I got to blame my customers for taking advantage of every time my company messed up. It doesn’t happen that way in business, you own your mistake and you move on
Wait, I work in retail. So shoplifters stealing is the company's fault as well? Because they didn't test whether someone can walk out the door with it over and over so the company gets what it deserves? The shoplifter isn't to blame because, even though they know what they are doing is wrong, it's the company's fault?
You sir are something else. 👍
False equivalency. He specifically said “my company messed up”. Not shop lifting or theft As in marking an item incorrectly at $5 instead of $20. Putting the wrong price on an item is not the consumers fault.
Whether you agree with that analogy or not is beside the point. It’s the one he used and you tried to switch the narrative
There are more ways to mess up than those. For example leaving the register open, leaving the back door open, leaving items in an area that are not or cannot be monitored. His equivalency is not false, yours it.
Spare us the rhetoric. Shop lifting is not messing up and that was the term used in a failed attempt to contradict his point.
You’re playing a game, if it lets you do something without hacking then you’ve played within the parameters that the maker put out.
It must be all kinds of fun playing Monopoly with you. As far as I'm aware, there's no rule that says you can't eat the other players' hotels.
You can’t remove someone else’s hotel. So that would not be within the parameters of the game.
The official rules cover when you can buy a hotel, how hotel auctions work, what to do when you run out of the limited supply of them in the game, and when you must sell them back to the bank. There is no rule that says you cannot eat another player's hotel.
I would hate to be fact-checked in error. Also, I notice there's no rule preventing one player from setting fire to the game board in order to wipe out their opponent's properties. I'm not sure if I would call that an exploit or a loophole.
That’s literally like putting the blame on someone else because you’re not strong enough to take it yourself. Just remove the goddamn extra rewards off everyone’s accounts. It was your bug. Take responsibility for it and fix it.
Kabam one of your employees literally said on the side event quest thread that you could go back on that path after you went on it the first time and unlocked it with a key. Your lack of communication is a MASSIVE issue and has caused all these bans to happen. It is YOUR bug, so instead of fixing it, you went ahead and banned thousands of players for going back on that open path that we were told you could go back on. Why are you banning people for a week AND removing their rewards? Just remove their rewards. It’s your fault the bug existed. The rewards SHOULD be removed 100% but a 1 week ban is SO unjust. That affects alliances and many other things in game, and it all originated from your bug. Just remove the rewards! We all agree with that! No need to ban! That’s way too compromising!
That is completely out of context and taking some huge liberties in the explanation. The path remains open, yes, but that doesn't mean that you can get the rewards again. The Path remained open so that if you fail to complete the path, you can try it again, and so that you don't make a mistake and take a path where there is no rewards, wasting a key.
We reserve the right to take any action we see fit on accounts that have violated the TOS. You agreed to abide by that when you started playing the game.
Kabaam Miike how could you possibly defend that? You guys put those rewards in chests and not in nodes, in quests throughout the entire game from the time the game started. If I complete a tier 1 daily quest right now, it will still give me the option to collect a chest on that completed path. Your employee said the path remains open after you open the key, and although she may not have realized at the time you guys made a tremendous mistake but putting ridiculous rewards in CHESTS, she still said it was open. It’s well known chests still stay there. Come on man
Compensation due to people that have been effected by the bugs going on and some people who went into the quest didn't get their key back so sorry for the confusion with the Compensation I meant to say that people effected should be given their key back and possibly a extra key for the interruptions and disturbances.
You’re playing a game, if it lets you do something without hacking then you’ve played within the parameters that the maker put out.
It must be all kinds of fun playing Monopoly with you. As far as I'm aware, there's no rule that says you can't eat the other players' hotels.
You can’t remove someone else’s hotel. So that would not be within the parameters of the game.
The official rules cover when you can buy a hotel, how hotel auctions work, what to do when you run out of the limited supply of them in the game, and when you must sell them back to the bank. There is no rule that says you cannot eat another player's hotel.
I would hate to be fact-checked in error. Also, I notice there's no rule preventing one player from setting fire to the game board in order to wipe out their opponent's properties. I'm not sure if I would call that an exploit or a loophole.
For some reason, people think this is a "Pro-Kabam vs. Pro-Player" situation, but I can assure you, this isn't about taking sides. This is about an exploit, and unfortunately that's a top priority in the world of Gaming. It's not about bugs that benefit Players versus bugs that benefit Kabam either, because no one benefits from a bug. Regardless of what they receive from it. In fact, that whole argument has been made countless times, and I would question greatly the definition of what benefits Players. Anything acquired through a bug has an effect. There have been occasions where they have allowed people to keep some things, and while I can't speak on their behalf, it's not a biased process in deciding that from what I gather. It has to do with things like overall effect to the game, the amount of work that goes into recouping it, the nature of how it was gained, etc. There is no such thing as a bug that benefits either side. Something that is knowingly and willingly abused is a priority. Moreover, when you have Rewards that amount to epic proportions in some cases such as this, it distorts the very game itself and sends ripples into things like the internal economy, the balance of Resources, balances in systems such as War and AQ, the list goes on and on. Something that's seen as benefiting Players is actually something that will break the game, and at the very least, lead to much more work down the road. It's cause and effect. Not a petition to be nice. Then there's the TOS. If people break the rules, they reserve the right to act. No amount of saying it's their fault and they don't do their job, will justify breaking the rules. If I walked into a department store and was caught stealing, I wouldn't avoid a charge because I thought their prices were gouging me. The bottom line is, each time people choose to take advantage of something, they're taking their chances. Doing it repeatedly is an obvious sign they aren't respecting the rules.
Comments
Eat s***.
Take your measly punishment like a man and quit crying!
“Good job @MaxGaming !”
“That’s right @MaxGaming !”
“Here’s your 6 star Taskmaster @MaxGaming !”
No.
Economics suggests they will find any and all offenders.
But when a player cheats an online game, the losers are not the game operator. It is the other players in the game whom they just acquired an unfair advantage over. In that respect it is nothing like one person getting a freebee from a company, because in that situation the person gains and the company loses. In the banking situation the bank lost money and the people who exploited the malfunctioning ATM got money. All other banking customers were unaffected.
Suppose any one of those entities said okay, it was our error so we're just going to let it go. Instead we're just going to claw the losses back from the rest of our customers. I think people would look at the policy of "letting it go" a whole lot differently.
That's unavoidable in MCOC, because I'm not talking about Kabam raising prices on offers. I'm talking about every alliance that loses to an alliance that contains players that received more rewards than they were supposed to. Every alliance that places lower in AQ because an alliance gained more prestige and jumped them. And a thousand other little ways in which players who gain unfair advantages over other players will lift their own gameplay on the backs of other players they will push downward. That's completely unavoidable, and something Kabam can never compensate for.
If people think Kabam is just supposed to let this go because they have some delusion that this is how "good companies" do it in the real world, I think they just don't understand how online games work or possibly how life works. If a company wants to let customers keep stuff they accidentally give away, I don't care. But if a company wants to give unfair advantages to some customers at my expense then I very much do care, and I suspect it would be a public relations nightmare if a company were to do that. Everyone is fine with corporations coming out behind. But when a few customers get away with cheating the system at the other customers expense that's when you have riots.
I wish these examples from Unit Mastery Marketing 101 would factor the actual real world situation into them.
Its like going to the market and asking the price of a new york steak and having the next person in line..saying "i dont care about the new york steak.. where is the chicken..."
I checked: https://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/monins.pdf
Like when LOL quest announced there was a bug and some players did 3 or 4 paths with that bug.
But Kabam didn't ban them and even they announce that now 1st exploration reward will be available for 2 players.
This is also bug in game and may be some player was not aware about this that it's a bug.
And they played repeated round by thinking that it was intension of game.
Kabaam Miike how could you possibly defend that? You guys put those rewards in chests and not in nodes, in quests throughout the entire game from the time the game started. If I complete a tier 1 daily quest right now, it will still give me the option to collect a chest on that completed path. Your employee said the path remains open after you open the key, and although she may not have realized at the time you guys made a tremendous mistake but putting ridiculous rewards in CHESTS, she still said it was open. It’s well known chests still stay there. Come on man