Ya after how poorly the champion boss was received i would bet we never see another true skill based fight that you can’t just revive through
I mean, I don't think that's a bad thing, as long as there continues to be skill based fights it doesn't really matter whether other people can revive through it or not.
You have to understand that some people prefer to play the game by stockpiling units and smashing their way through content stress-free. You don't have to play that way, but the door should be open for those that want to.
Right, and because of that we will never see another true skill based fight in mcoc. You’re just agreeing with me....
Take the grandmaster for example. You can easily take him down with 1000 units and very little skill. However I would still argue it is very much a skill based fight because it can be soloed with skill.
What I'm saying is that for a fight to be skill based, it doesn't have to be impossible to smash through with units and revives.
Ya I completely disagree, if you just can unit through it easily it’s not a fight that requires any skill
I mean I respect your opinion, but that is definitely a weird way of looking at it. So would you say that soloing the GM requires no skill?
No, i’m saying that to kill the GM requires zero skill. You don’t get anything extra for a solo vs using 20 revives, it’s the same
Then that might be the problem. If they could give something extra the less you use
the difference between the champion and the grandmaster to me is that champion REQUIRED skill to kill, if you didn't have the skill, you simply would never kill him. Grandmaster does not require any skill to kill
That's actually not exactly true. If you were willing to spend enough, you could get lucky and beat him even if you didn't really have the timing down right. If the Champion was 100% pure skill, then the lowered indestructible charge version wouldn't be any less of a skill challenge, because it is impossible for more charges to require skill but fewer to not require skill at all. What more charges does is make it exponentially more difficult to spend past the Champion, not make it impossible to spend past him.
It is precisely the fact that you can get lucky through constant repetition that is why I opposed reducing the indestructible charges. It lowers the luck barrier too low in my opinion compared to the level of skill required to get past it. But even in his original incarnation, if you wanted to spend an unlimited amount of units just constantly reviving and trying, you would eventually get lucky with the dexes enough times in a row to get past him.
Things are rarely completely binary in this game.There is nowhere that spending doesn't offer some kind of advantage, not even in the Champion fight. This was even one of my complaints in the OG 7.1 beta: that some paths were not impossible to beat, but were just causing me to stop and restart enough times that I couldn't even be sure myself if I was beating them with skill or with luck when it came to certain problematic fights. Which is not ideal for difficulty design.
The Champion fight is over inflated on the skill aspect. Yes, it requires some skill but they artificially made the dex of the headbutt way harder to catch the input than it should be. Others weren't even aware at the time that you can simply dex the karate chop. We need to stop making it the pedestal of skill. Really all we want is content worthy of our rank 6 stars and that's long and short of it. I don't mind using other rarities outside of 4 stars. I refuse to waste any resources on those champions.
My only hope is that rewards match the challenge since this isn't likely to use R3 6 stars.
Ya after how poorly the champion boss was received i would bet we never see another true skill based fight that you can’t just revive through
I mean, I don't think that's a bad thing, as long as there continues to be skill based fights it doesn't really matter whether other people can revive through it or not.
You have to understand that some people prefer to play the game by stockpiling units and smashing their way through content stress-free. You don't have to play that way, but the door should be open for those that want to.
Right, and because of that we will never see another true skill based fight in mcoc. You’re just agreeing with me....
Take the grandmaster for example. You can easily take him down with 1000 units and very little skill. However I would still argue it is very much a skill based fight because it can be soloed with skill.
What I'm saying is that for a fight to be skill based, it doesn't have to be impossible to smash through with units and revives.
Ya I completely disagree, if you just can unit through it easily it’s not a fight that requires any skill
I mean I respect your opinion, but that is definitely a weird way of looking at it. So would you say that soloing the GM requires no skill?
No, i’m saying that to kill the GM requires zero skill. You don’t get anything extra for a solo vs using 20 revives, it’s the same
Then that might be the problem. If they could give something extra the less you use
the difference between the champion and the grandmaster to me is that champion REQUIRED skill to kill, if you didn't have the skill, you simply would never kill him. Grandmaster does not require any skill to kill
That's actually not exactly true. If you were willing to spend enough, you could get lucky and beat him even if you didn't really have the timing down right. If the Champion was 100% pure skill, then the lowered indestructible charge version wouldn't be any less of a skill challenge, because it is impossible for more charges to require skill but fewer to not require skill at all. What more charges does is make it exponentially more difficult to spend past the Champion, not make it impossible to spend past him.
It is precisely the fact that you can get lucky through constant repetition that is why I opposed reducing the indestructible charges. It lowers the luck barrier too low in my opinion compared to the level of skill required to get past it. But even in his original incarnation, if you wanted to spend an unlimited amount of units just constantly reviving and trying, you would eventually get lucky with the dexes enough times in a row to get past him.
Things are rarely completely binary in this game.There is nowhere that spending doesn't offer some kind of advantage, not even in the Champion fight. This was even one of my complaints in the OG 7.1 beta: that some paths were not impossible to beat, but were just causing me to stop and restart enough times that I couldn't even be sure myself if I was beating them with skill or with luck when it came to certain problematic fights. Which is not ideal for difficulty design.
The Champion fight is over inflated on the skill aspect. Yes, it requires some skill but they artificially made the dex of the headbutt way harder to catch the input than it should be. Others weren't even aware at the time that you can simply dex the karate chop. We need to stop making it the pedestal of skill. Really all we want is content worthy of our rank 6 stars and that's long and short of it. I don't mind using other rarities outside of 4 stars. I refuse to waste any resources on those champions.
My only hope is that rewards match the challenge since this isn't likely to use R3 6 stars.
Extremely valid point that 4 stars are the only rarity that are not useful in endgame content but still require resources that overlap with more powerful rarities. 3 star champs aren’t an issue because I don’t need those resources for anything else anyway 🤷🏻♂️
Ya after how poorly the champion boss was received i would bet we never see another true skill based fight that you can’t just revive through
I mean, I don't think that's a bad thing, as long as there continues to be skill based fights it doesn't really matter whether other people can revive through it or not.
You have to understand that some people prefer to play the game by stockpiling units and smashing their way through content stress-free. You don't have to play that way, but the door should be open for those that want to.
Right, and because of that we will never see another true skill based fight in mcoc. You’re just agreeing with me....
Take the grandmaster for example. You can easily take him down with 1000 units and very little skill. However I would still argue it is very much a skill based fight because it can be soloed with skill.
What I'm saying is that for a fight to be skill based, it doesn't have to be impossible to smash through with units and revives.
Ya I completely disagree, if you just can unit through it easily it’s not a fight that requires any skill
I mean I respect your opinion, but that is definitely a weird way of looking at it. So would you say that soloing the GM requires no skill?
No, i’m saying that to kill the GM requires zero skill. You don’t get anything extra for a solo vs using 20 revives, it’s the same
Then that might be the problem. If they could give something extra the less you use
the difference between the champion and the grandmaster to me is that champion REQUIRED skill to kill, if you didn't have the skill, you simply would never kill him. Grandmaster does not require any skill to kill
That's actually not exactly true. If you were willing to spend enough, you could get lucky and beat him even if you didn't really have the timing down right. If the Champion was 100% pure skill, then the lowered indestructible charge version wouldn't be any less of a skill challenge, because it is impossible for more charges to require skill but fewer to not require skill at all. What more charges does is make it exponentially more difficult to spend past the Champion, not make it impossible to spend past him.
It is precisely the fact that you can get lucky through constant repetition that is why I opposed reducing the indestructible charges. It lowers the luck barrier too low in my opinion compared to the level of skill required to get past it. But even in his original incarnation, if you wanted to spend an unlimited amount of units just constantly reviving and trying, you would eventually get lucky with the dexes enough times in a row to get past him.
Things are rarely completely binary in this game.There is nowhere that spending doesn't offer some kind of advantage, not even in the Champion fight. This was even one of my complaints in the OG 7.1 beta: that some paths were not impossible to beat, but were just causing me to stop and restart enough times that I couldn't even be sure myself if I was beating them with skill or with luck when it came to certain problematic fights. Which is not ideal for difficulty design.
The Champion fight is over inflated on the skill aspect. Yes, it requires some skill but they artificially made the dex of the headbutt way harder to catch the input than it should be. Others weren't even aware at the time that you can simply dex the karate chop. We need to stop making it the pedestal of skill. Really all we want is content worthy of our rank 6 stars and that's long and short of it. I don't mind using other rarities outside of 4 stars. I refuse to waste any resources on those champions.
My only hope is that rewards match the challenge since this isn't likely to use R3 6 stars.
Extremely valid point that 4 stars are the only rarity that are not useful in endgame content but still require resources that overlap with more powerful rarities. 3 star champs aren’t an issue because I don’t need those resources for anything else anyway 🤷🏻♂️
Which is exactly why the four star challenge fell flat. Don't use 4 star Kabam, all other rarities are fine.
i like the 4* challenges, i rank mostly 4* these days and the occasional 6*
T4cc and t4basic are hard to come by for top 90 aq and higher war. I do not like wasting those resources when t5basic is in overflow.
i'm top 20 aq and tier 1 war so i'm aware of the resource situation, but like i said i mostly rank 4* these days to make the 4* basic arena faster for me
Ya after how poorly the champion boss was received i would bet we never see another true skill based fight that you can’t just revive through
I mean, I don't think that's a bad thing, as long as there continues to be skill based fights it doesn't really matter whether other people can revive through it or not.
You have to understand that some people prefer to play the game by stockpiling units and smashing their way through content stress-free. You don't have to play that way, but the door should be open for those that want to.
Right, and because of that we will never see another true skill based fight in mcoc. You’re just agreeing with me....
Take the grandmaster for example. You can easily take him down with 1000 units and very little skill. However I would still argue it is very much a skill based fight because it can be soloed with skill.
What I'm saying is that for a fight to be skill based, it doesn't have to be impossible to smash through with units and revives.
Ya I completely disagree, if you just can unit through it easily it’s not a fight that requires any skill
I mean I respect your opinion, but that is definitely a weird way of looking at it. So would you say that soloing the GM requires no skill?
No, i’m saying that to kill the GM requires zero skill. You don’t get anything extra for a solo vs using 20 revives, it’s the same
Then that might be the problem. If they could give something extra the less you use
the difference between the champion and the grandmaster to me is that champion REQUIRED skill to kill, if you didn't have the skill, you simply would never kill him. Grandmaster does not require any skill to kill
That's actually not exactly true. If you were willing to spend enough, you could get lucky and beat him even if you didn't really have the timing down right. If the Champion was 100% pure skill, then the lowered indestructible charge version wouldn't be any less of a skill challenge, because it is impossible for more charges to require skill but fewer to not require skill at all. What more charges does is make it exponentially more difficult to spend past the Champion, not make it impossible to spend past him.
It is precisely the fact that you can get lucky through constant repetition that is why I opposed reducing the indestructible charges. It lowers the luck barrier too low in my opinion compared to the level of skill required to get past it. But even in his original incarnation, if you wanted to spend an unlimited amount of units just constantly reviving and trying, you would eventually get lucky with the dexes enough times in a row to get past him.
Things are rarely completely binary in this game.There is nowhere that spending doesn't offer some kind of advantage, not even in the Champion fight. This was even one of my complaints in the OG 7.1 beta: that some paths were not impossible to beat, but were just causing me to stop and restart enough times that I couldn't even be sure myself if I was beating them with skill or with luck when it came to certain problematic fights. Which is not ideal for difficulty design.
The Champion fight is over inflated on the skill aspect. Yes, it requires some skill but they artificially made the dex of the headbutt way harder to catch the input than it should be. Others weren't even aware at the time that you can simply dex the karate chop. We need to stop making it the pedestal of skill. Really all we want is content worthy of our rank 6 stars and that's long and short of it. I don't mind using other rarities outside of 4 stars. I refuse to waste any resources on those champions.
Such content is going to be very rare until more than a handful of people have a significant number of R3s, and by the time that happens R4s are going to be imminent if not already here. That's just the practical reality. Even these objectives are probably end game stop gaps (as they are stated to reuse existing content) specifically because the resources to make such content are very high relative to the amount of people who could possibly benefit from it.
i see some regular suspects of the "too ez" brigade complaining about using lower rarities. Dont you want a challenge, haven't you been moaning all over the forums lately? If they give a good challenge it is worth a shot. I, for one, am looking forward to it.
4* challenges are just boring low hanging fruit that few really enjoy from all sides of the community.
I'd much rather have to use OG Spidey to take down V7 Venom or something along those lines. Creativity in challenges will go a long way to making this a success.
Yeah it is a challenge, which is what everyone wanted didnt they? After so much moaning and crying we are getting something. Why this pessimism?
Can people not be more specific with what they consider challenging and fun?
Why are you the preference police, “nuh uh you said you wanted a challenge, so you can’t be pessimistic”
Just putting a point. What about the opposite? When others moan about hard content or praise something for being what they consider fun, half the police here come and call everything easy and boring and ruin it for them.
Because there’s a difference between what you claim end game players are doing and what non end game players are doing.
When content comes out that is too easy for end game players and doesn’t challenge us, we give our feedback, variant 7 is too easy, it’s not a challenge, we would like something harder. We never say “all content should be hard, there shouldn’t be no middle tier, you have no right to enjoy variant content” etc. We just want our fair slice of the pie.
But when we ask for that, the same suspects every time come forward and say the same arguments, just use 4*, just play the game and enjoy it, take a break.
We never come and tell people how to play the game, and anyone who does, is being unfair. We are giving our feedback that content isn’t challenging us and we are bored, I’ve never seen someone say this is boring anyone who enjoys it is wrong, only that their opinion is they want some harder content.
All we want is a challenge, one that inspires us to play new strategies, learn new skills and something we find fun. But when we say, oh a 4* challenge doesn’t do that for us, it’s just using the same champions with a weakness, we get scoffed at again like oh can’t you enjoy anything stop being so pessimistic.
It’s really draining when we’re just giving feedback on how we would enjoy a game we love
Other than a few changes which were made to the bosses in Act 6, the only thing that differs from the initial Act 6 is the attack values. Yet everyone praises it as if it were the coming of the Lord or something. The nodes are the same. But I see a ton of endgame players compare everything to Act 6. Also, yes I agree that the Endgame players do deserve content to keep them entertained. But that doesn't mean that anytime content drops and someone finds it hard/fun but it's easy for them, the thread is hijacked, compared to Act 6 and all in general moaned about. Let people have their fun. Kabam needs to give you guys something to enjoy too, but noone needs to ruin others fun at the same time. Just as the same that you shouldn't be denied your fun, no need to say everything is too easy all the time. If Kabam makes pure content just for you and the non endgamers complain, then yes smack them all you want. But that shouldn't be in story mode anyway
The problem with what you said, is that everytime an “end game content” is released that is specifically targeted to be challenging for end-gamers, everyone, including the mid-tiers think they have a right to those rewards and cry about it when they can’t do it.
i see some regular suspects of the "too ez" brigade complaining about using lower rarities. Dont you want a challenge, haven't you been moaning all over the forums lately? If they give a good challenge it is worth a shot. I, for one, am looking forward to it.
4* challenges are just boring low hanging fruit that few really enjoy from all sides of the community.
I'd much rather have to use OG Spidey to take down V7 Venom or something along those lines. Creativity in challenges will go a long way to making this a success.
Yeah it is a challenge, which is what everyone wanted didnt they? After so much moaning and crying we are getting something. Why this pessimism?
Can people not be more specific with what they consider challenging and fun?
Why are you the preference police, “nuh uh you said you wanted a challenge, so you can’t be pessimistic”
Just putting a point. What about the opposite? When others moan about hard content or praise something for being what they consider fun, half the police here come and call everything easy and boring and ruin it for them.
Because there’s a difference between what you claim end game players are doing and what non end game players are doing.
When content comes out that is too easy for end game players and doesn’t challenge us, we give our feedback, variant 7 is too easy, it’s not a challenge, we would like something harder. We never say “all content should be hard, there shouldn’t be no middle tier, you have no right to enjoy variant content” etc. We just want our fair slice of the pie.
But when we ask for that, the same suspects every time come forward and say the same arguments, just use 4*, just play the game and enjoy it, take a break.
We never come and tell people how to play the game, and anyone who does, is being unfair. We are giving our feedback that content isn’t challenging us and we are bored, I’ve never seen someone say this is boring anyone who enjoys it is wrong, only that their opinion is they want some harder content.
All we want is a challenge, one that inspires us to play new strategies, learn new skills and something we find fun. But when we say, oh a 4* challenge doesn’t do that for us, it’s just using the same champions with a weakness, we get scoffed at again like oh can’t you enjoy anything stop being so pessimistic.
It’s really draining when we’re just giving feedback on how we would enjoy a game we love
Other than a few changes which were made to the bosses in Act 6, the only thing that differs from the initial Act 6 is the attack values. Yet everyone praises it as if it were the coming of the Lord or something. The nodes are the same. But I see a ton of endgame players compare everything to Act 6. Also, yes I agree that the Endgame players do deserve content to keep them entertained. But that doesn't mean that anytime content drops and someone finds it hard/fun but it's easy for them, the thread is hijacked, compared to Act 6 and all in general moaned about. Let people have their fun. Kabam needs to give you guys something to enjoy too, but noone needs to ruin others fun at the same time. Just as the same that you shouldn't be denied your fun, no need to say everything is too easy all the time. If Kabam makes pure content just for you and the non endgamers complain, then yes smack them all you want. But that shouldn't be in story mode anyway
The problem with what you said, is that everytime an “end game content” is released that is specifically targeted to be challenging for end-gamers, everyone, including the mid-tiers think they have a right to those rewards and cry about it when they can’t do it.
I agree that is stupid. If Kabam advertises that it's only for end gamers, then they shouldn't. But other than the competition that happened, I don't remember any other instances and tbf they advertised it wrong. But I could be wrong. But if they don't advertise it as endgame content, complaining that it's too easy for you makes no sense as well.
i see some regular suspects of the "too ez" brigade complaining about using lower rarities. Dont you want a challenge, haven't you been moaning all over the forums lately? If they give a good challenge it is worth a shot. I, for one, am looking forward to it.
4* challenges are just boring low hanging fruit that few really enjoy from all sides of the community.
I'd much rather have to use OG Spidey to take down V7 Venom or something along those lines. Creativity in challenges will go a long way to making this a success.
Yeah it is a challenge, which is what everyone wanted didnt they? After so much moaning and crying we are getting something. Why this pessimism?
Can people not be more specific with what they consider challenging and fun?
Why are you the preference police, “nuh uh you said you wanted a challenge, so you can’t be pessimistic”
Just putting a point. What about the opposite? When others moan about hard content or praise something for being what they consider fun, half the police here come and call everything easy and boring and ruin it for them.
Because there’s a difference between what you claim end game players are doing and what non end game players are doing.
When content comes out that is too easy for end game players and doesn’t challenge us, we give our feedback, variant 7 is too easy, it’s not a challenge, we would like something harder. We never say “all content should be hard, there shouldn’t be no middle tier, you have no right to enjoy variant content” etc. We just want our fair slice of the pie.
But when we ask for that, the same suspects every time come forward and say the same arguments, just use 4*, just play the game and enjoy it, take a break.
We never come and tell people how to play the game, and anyone who does, is being unfair. We are giving our feedback that content isn’t challenging us and we are bored, I’ve never seen someone say this is boring anyone who enjoys it is wrong, only that their opinion is they want some harder content.
All we want is a challenge, one that inspires us to play new strategies, learn new skills and something we find fun. But when we say, oh a 4* challenge doesn’t do that for us, it’s just using the same champions with a weakness, we get scoffed at again like oh can’t you enjoy anything stop being so pessimistic.
It’s really draining when we’re just giving feedback on how we would enjoy a game we love
Other than a few changes which were made to the bosses in Act 6, the only thing that differs from the initial Act 6 is the attack values. Yet everyone praises it as if it were the coming of the Lord or something. The nodes are the same. But I see a ton of endgame players compare everything to Act 6. Also, yes I agree that the Endgame players do deserve content to keep them entertained. But that doesn't mean that anytime content drops and someone finds it hard/fun but it's easy for them, the thread is hijacked, compared to Act 6 and all in general moaned about. Let people have their fun. Kabam needs to give you guys something to enjoy too, but noone needs to ruin others fun at the same time. Just as the same that you shouldn't be denied your fun, no need to say everything is too easy all the time. If Kabam makes pure content just for you and the non endgamers complain, then yes smack them all you want. But that shouldn't be in story mode anyway
The problem with what you said, is that everytime an “end game content” is released that is specifically targeted to be challenging for end-gamers, everyone, including the mid-tiers think they have a right to those rewards and cry about it when they can’t do it.
I agree that is stupid. If Kabam advertises that it's only for end gamers, then they shouldn't. But other than the competition that happened, I don't remember any other instances and tbf they advertised it wrong. But I could be wrong. But if they don't advertise it as endgame content, complaining that it's too easy for you makes no sense as well.
I remember there being a thread called “Variant 7 is too easy,” and it was a real lightning rod for these conversations. I don’t recall the OP’s original point outside of the title, but most of the people commenting on it from the endgame perspective were just commenting on the drought of endgame content. It was more of a “Variant 7 isn’t what we’re looking for, we want something more” than it was a “Go back in and make Variant 7 more difficult.”
The point of it was feedback for future content, not an attempt to change current content. Obviously that is not a true statement for every single person, I’m sure somebody who doesn’t understand that a game needs to have lots of widely accessible content and that development takes time was clamoring for it, but that hypothetical person is silly and probably smells bad. Don’t listen to them.
I think this is where the irritation stems from. We’re saying things as notes for future content, but it is being read as complaints about present content. And, to an extent, that’s not a misreading. When a big piece of content drops and I rip through it without having to really consider any matchups, I’m disappointed. So to that point, it is a bit of a complaint. But it is a complaint directed towards the next project because I know Kabam isn’t going to go in and change something released because Wicket329 had some pointers. But with enough volume and repetition, those points might make it back to the Devs and maybe they’ll tweak something down the line. That’s the hope.
i see some regular suspects of the "too ez" brigade complaining about using lower rarities. Dont you want a challenge, haven't you been moaning all over the forums lately? If they give a good challenge it is worth a shot. I, for one, am looking forward to it.
4* challenges are just boring low hanging fruit that few really enjoy from all sides of the community.
I'd much rather have to use OG Spidey to take down V7 Venom or something along those lines. Creativity in challenges will go a long way to making this a success.
Yeah it is a challenge, which is what everyone wanted didnt they? After so much moaning and crying we are getting something. Why this pessimism?
Can people not be more specific with what they consider challenging and fun?
Why are you the preference police, “nuh uh you said you wanted a challenge, so you can’t be pessimistic”
Just putting a point. What about the opposite? When others moan about hard content or praise something for being what they consider fun, half the police here come and call everything easy and boring and ruin it for them.
Because there’s a difference between what you claim end game players are doing and what non end game players are doing.
When content comes out that is too easy for end game players and doesn’t challenge us, we give our feedback, variant 7 is too easy, it’s not a challenge, we would like something harder. We never say “all content should be hard, there shouldn’t be no middle tier, you have no right to enjoy variant content” etc. We just want our fair slice of the pie.
But when we ask for that, the same suspects every time come forward and say the same arguments, just use 4*, just play the game and enjoy it, take a break.
We never come and tell people how to play the game, and anyone who does, is being unfair. We are giving our feedback that content isn’t challenging us and we are bored, I’ve never seen someone say this is boring anyone who enjoys it is wrong, only that their opinion is they want some harder content.
All we want is a challenge, one that inspires us to play new strategies, learn new skills and something we find fun. But when we say, oh a 4* challenge doesn’t do that for us, it’s just using the same champions with a weakness, we get scoffed at again like oh can’t you enjoy anything stop being so pessimistic.
It’s really draining when we’re just giving feedback on how we would enjoy a game we love
Other than a few changes which were made to the bosses in Act 6, the only thing that differs from the initial Act 6 is the attack values. Yet everyone praises it as if it were the coming of the Lord or something. The nodes are the same. But I see a ton of endgame players compare everything to Act 6. Also, yes I agree that the Endgame players do deserve content to keep them entertained. But that doesn't mean that anytime content drops and someone finds it hard/fun but it's easy for them, the thread is hijacked, compared to Act 6 and all in general moaned about. Let people have their fun. Kabam needs to give you guys something to enjoy too, but noone needs to ruin others fun at the same time. Just as the same that you shouldn't be denied your fun, no need to say everything is too easy all the time. If Kabam makes pure content just for you and the non endgamers complain, then yes smack them all you want. But that shouldn't be in story mode anyway
The problem with what you said, is that everytime an “end game content” is released that is specifically targeted to be challenging for end-gamers, everyone, including the mid-tiers think they have a right to those rewards and cry about it when they can’t do it.
I agree that is stupid. If Kabam advertises that it's only for end gamers, then they shouldn't. But other than the competition that happened, I don't remember any other instances and tbf they advertised it wrong. But I could be wrong. But if they don't advertise it as endgame content, complaining that it's too easy for you makes no sense as well.
I remember there being a thread called “Variant 7 is too easy,” and it was a real lightning rod for these conversations. I don’t recall the OP’s original point outside of the title, but most of the people commenting on it from the endgame perspective were just commenting on the drought of endgame content. It was more of a “Variant 7 isn’t what we’re looking for, we want something more” than it was a “Go back in and make Variant 7 more difficult.”
The point of it was feedback for future content, not an attempt to change current content. Obviously that is not a true statement for every single person, I’m sure somebody who doesn’t understand that a game needs to have lots of widely accessible content and that development takes time was clamoring for it, but that hypothetical person is silly and probably smells bad. Don’t listen to them.
I think this is where the irritation stems from. We’re saying things as notes for future content, but it is being read as complaints about present content. And, to an extent, that’s not a misreading. When a big piece of content drops and I rip through it without having to really consider any matchups, I’m disappointed. So to that point, it is a bit of a complaint. But it is a complaint directed towards the next project because I know Kabam isn’t going to go in and change something released because Wicket329 had some pointers. But with enough volume and repetition, those points might make it back to the Devs and maybe they’ll tweak something down the line. That’s the hope.
But they aren't advertising this content as endgame right? I mean we all knew it after V5 and V6 atleast that while the attack values are high and it's not easy for many, for the endgamers with tons of 6* R3 and skill, it was too easy. Now the Carina Challenge. They have specifically said that it's going to be hard even for TB. If it's easy, the go ahead. Raise a stink. Because it's definitely not they would have said then. Threads that say that 'make endgame content' are better than 'V7 is too easy'. While they may sound the same in your perspective, one is asking for content, one is telling that stuff which isn't aimed to the real endgamers is too easy which obviously it is and doesn't prove anything. Atleast that's what I feel.
We just have to wait and see, they won't make any changes to what they have planned before it even launches so be patient and keep the negativity away.
Ya after how poorly the champion boss was received i would bet we never see another true skill based fight that you can’t just revive through
I mean, I don't think that's a bad thing, as long as there continues to be skill based fights it doesn't really matter whether other people can revive through it or not.
You have to understand that some people prefer to play the game by stockpiling units and smashing their way through content stress-free. You don't have to play that way, but the door should be open for those that want to.
Right, and because of that we will never see another true skill based fight in mcoc. You’re just agreeing with me....
Take the grandmaster for example. You can easily take him down with 1000 units and very little skill. However I would still argue it is very much a skill based fight because it can be soloed with skill.
What I'm saying is that for a fight to be skill based, it doesn't have to be impossible to smash through with units and revives.
Ya I completely disagree, if you just can unit through it easily it’s not a fight that requires any skill
I mean I respect your opinion, but that is definitely a weird way of looking at it. So would you say that soloing the GM requires no skill?
No, i’m saying that to kill the GM requires zero skill. You don’t get anything extra for a solo vs using 20 revives, it’s the same
Then that might be the problem. If they could give something extra the less you use
the difference between the champion and the grandmaster to me is that champion REQUIRED skill to kill, if you didn't have the skill, you simply would never kill him. Grandmaster does not require any skill to kill
That's actually not exactly true. If you were willing to spend enough, you could get lucky and beat him even if you didn't really have the timing down right. If the Champion was 100% pure skill, then the lowered indestructible charge version wouldn't be any less of a skill challenge, because it is impossible for more charges to require skill but fewer to not require skill at all. What more charges does is make it exponentially more difficult to spend past the Champion, not make it impossible to spend past him.
It is precisely the fact that you can get lucky through constant repetition that is why I opposed reducing the indestructible charges. It lowers the luck barrier too low in my opinion compared to the level of skill required to get past it. But even in his original incarnation, if you wanted to spend an unlimited amount of units just constantly reviving and trying, you would eventually get lucky with the dexes enough times in a row to get past him.
Things are rarely completely binary in this game.There is nowhere that spending doesn't offer some kind of advantage, not even in the Champion fight. This was even one of my complaints in the OG 7.1 beta: that some paths were not impossible to beat, but were just causing me to stop and restart enough times that I couldn't even be sure myself if I was beating them with skill or with luck when it came to certain problematic fights. Which is not ideal for difficulty design.
The Champion fight is over inflated on the skill aspect. Yes, it requires some skill but they artificially made the dex of the headbutt way harder to catch the input than it should be. Others weren't even aware at the time that you can simply dex the karate chop. We need to stop making it the pedestal of skill. Really all we want is content worthy of our rank 6 stars and that's long and short of it. I don't mind using other rarities outside of 4 stars. I refuse to waste any resources on those champions.
Such content is going to be very rare until more than a handful of people have a significant number of R3s, and by the time that happens R4s are going to be imminent if not already here. That's just the practical reality. Even these objectives are probably end game stop gaps (as they are stated to reuse existing content) specifically because the resources to make such content are very high relative to the amount of people who could possibly benefit from it.
I’m not sure what you define as ‘a hand full’ but I know everyone in top 90, p2+ wars is sitting on 10-20 r3’s.... this is lots of people who all need content.
Wtf does anyone want to rank a 4* champ for. I want to open up Doom like I can in Abyss (although I then get auto killed at 200 combo)
We are prob only 1 year if that away from r4 6* and be stuck with cav eq to run every month. It makes not sense to longevity of game.
I personally believe allowing newer people to burn through story created this entitlement issue. Example act 7 should be locked behind 100% act 6, which is locked behind 100% act 5 etc...
@pseudosane Why are you so angry? Nobody’s coming for you, but you came into this thread real hot and it’s not the first time. I guess I’m a part of your “too ez brigade,” and I’m not sure what I’ve done to offend you so much.
I have made it abundantly clear that I, and the majority of people who agree with me, don’t have any issue with Story and Variant content being at their current levels. We just want something else *in addition to that content* that lets us use the champions that we’ve worked to collect and rank up.
The reason people are pessimistic about this Challenge is because it is not new content. In their own words, Kabam has said that this Challenge will have us revisiting old content. Personally, I believe that there is some potential here and it could work out well. I’ve said as much in a previous post on this thread, if you chose to read that before posting with such vitriol.
But I also understand people who had been hoping for this event, which appears to be the much-awaited Summer of Pain, to be new content in its own right. Because, again, simply using lower rarity champions against the same fights is not something that I (or most of the others in my toon troop or whatever cutesie name you want to call us) find enjoyable.
In any event, I’m looking forward to it. I still hope for new content that pushes a 6*r3 roster to its limit, but this, tomorrow’s new EQ, Act 7.2 and exploration of Variant 7 give me plenty to do in the meantime.
The territory comes with the name my man. >.< I am pseudosane.
Well, I disagree on all points, but i have made that abundantly clear. I find challenge in using different options for existing fights, using less conventional options, running multiple options with different solutions. I have always held that viewpoint. If you read my previous posts, 6r3 have never been of much value to me, ive always believed they designed themselves into a corner with 6r3. Ive done all content already, and have my fun with other accounts. I hold an optimistic view to challenges and content and wait till they are released to make a judgement. No, I do not like enhanced attack values. Yes, i like existing content, and further limiting our options is fun to me, as it adds a layer of complexity and difficulty. Yes, I can wait for SUmmer of Pain, im in no hurry since im working on Account nr2 exploration of act6. Yes, I dislike the too ez brigade because they are the same troop of people who seem to sneer on folks for finding a hard time through content. Have any more questions?
I’m not going to tell you that you’re way of enjoying the game is wrong, I’m glad those things work for you! I do want to address some of your points, however:
You don’t have to wait for Summer of Pain, because that’s what this is. If you look at the text they used to initially market SoP and the text they used to describe Carina’s Challenge, you’ll notice they bear a striking similarity. I believe that’s what this is, and it’s why some of us are a bit disappointed that it isn’t new content. That doesn’t make it inherently bad, just different from what we’d hoped for.
I also like the existing content, that’s why I’ve done it all (except exploration of most recent variant). But I don’t think it’s unreasonable for players of a game that receives monthly updates to content to... ask for an update to content every now and again.
I’ve got a second account but I don’t find it to be terribly fun. I pop in every now and again to make progress, but it’s been years and I barely play it. I’m glad you enjoy the alt grind, but it’s just not my thing.
As to your last point, that the brute squad (I decided to make your rude name into a Princess Bride reference and nobody can stop me) sneers at people struggling with other content... I just don’t see it, dude. I make a point to try to help people out wherever I can on here. I struggled through a lot of content as it was released, now I like to help other people with what I’ve learned as a result. I don’t know who specifically you’re referring to when you say that, but it seems pretty unfounded.
Well, you can keep that viewpoint, i have no issues, with it. But though you may not do it personally, folks of the "too ez" brigade ( rude?), do pop in with that viewpoint, hey everything is too easy. every piece of content is 'too ez", then when others less fortunate complain about problematic fights ( like pre nerf acid wash mysterio), hey it is "too ez". There is where my "vitriol" stems from. Either ways, those are my viewpoints and i find it pointless to go back and forth. We can agree to disagree.
Ya after how poorly the champion boss was received i would bet we never see another true skill based fight that you can’t just revive through
I mean, I don't think that's a bad thing, as long as there continues to be skill based fights it doesn't really matter whether other people can revive through it or not.
You have to understand that some people prefer to play the game by stockpiling units and smashing their way through content stress-free. You don't have to play that way, but the door should be open for those that want to.
Right, and because of that we will never see another true skill based fight in mcoc. You’re just agreeing with me....
Take the grandmaster for example. You can easily take him down with 1000 units and very little skill. However I would still argue it is very much a skill based fight because it can be soloed with skill.
What I'm saying is that for a fight to be skill based, it doesn't have to be impossible to smash through with units and revives.
Ya I completely disagree, if you just can unit through it easily it’s not a fight that requires any skill
I mean I respect your opinion, but that is definitely a weird way of looking at it. So would you say that soloing the GM requires no skill?
No, i’m saying that to kill the GM requires zero skill. You don’t get anything extra for a solo vs using 20 revives, it’s the same
Then that might be the problem. If they could give something extra the less you use
the difference between the champion and the grandmaster to me is that champion REQUIRED skill to kill, if you didn't have the skill, you simply would never kill him. Grandmaster does not require any skill to kill
That's actually not exactly true. If you were willing to spend enough, you could get lucky and beat him even if you didn't really have the timing down right. If the Champion was 100% pure skill, then the lowered indestructible charge version wouldn't be any less of a skill challenge, because it is impossible for more charges to require skill but fewer to not require skill at all. What more charges does is make it exponentially more difficult to spend past the Champion, not make it impossible to spend past him.
It is precisely the fact that you can get lucky through constant repetition that is why I opposed reducing the indestructible charges. It lowers the luck barrier too low in my opinion compared to the level of skill required to get past it. But even in his original incarnation, if you wanted to spend an unlimited amount of units just constantly reviving and trying, you would eventually get lucky with the dexes enough times in a row to get past him.
Things are rarely completely binary in this game.There is nowhere that spending doesn't offer some kind of advantage, not even in the Champion fight. This was even one of my complaints in the OG 7.1 beta: that some paths were not impossible to beat, but were just causing me to stop and restart enough times that I couldn't even be sure myself if I was beating them with skill or with luck when it came to certain problematic fights. Which is not ideal for difficulty design.
The Champion fight is over inflated on the skill aspect. Yes, it requires some skill but they artificially made the dex of the headbutt way harder to catch the input than it should be. Others weren't even aware at the time that you can simply dex the karate chop. We need to stop making it the pedestal of skill. Really all we want is content worthy of our rank 6 stars and that's long and short of it. I don't mind using other rarities outside of 4 stars. I refuse to waste any resources on those champions.
Such content is going to be very rare until more than a handful of people have a significant number of R3s, and by the time that happens R4s are going to be imminent if not already here. That's just the practical reality. Even these objectives are probably end game stop gaps (as they are stated to reuse existing content) specifically because the resources to make such content are very high relative to the amount of people who could possibly benefit from it.
I disagree completely. We got plenty of r5 5 star content far before most players had access to them on the regular basis. I have 35 r5 5 stars, when I running through act 6 I had maybe 10-15 for majority of it. Lets stop acting like r3 6 star content is hard request. Honestly all I hear from you is fear of end game content you can't tackle.
i like the 4* challenges, i rank mostly 4* these days and the occasional 6*
T4cc and t4basic are hard to come by for top 90 aq and higher war. I do not like wasting those resources when t5basic is in overflow.
i'm top 20 aq and tier 1 war so i'm aware of the resource situation, but like i said i mostly rank 4* these days to make the 4* basic arena faster for me
Ranking 4*, especially to hit Level Up milestones, is my go-to rankup these days. I’m done with all 2* and nearly done with all 3*, although I have a few left to top off for Level Up where needed.
They are resource-cheap—which means I can stockpile resources to add to my 5/6* roster if new content demand—and they can be used in Cav 4* challenge when it comes around.
i like the 4* challenges, i rank mostly 4* these days and the occasional 6*
T4cc and t4basic are hard to come by for top 90 aq and higher war. I do not like wasting those resources when t5basic is in overflow.
i'm top 20 aq and tier 1 war so i'm aware of the resource situation, but like i said i mostly rank 4* these days to make the 4* basic arena faster for me
Ranking 4*, especially to hit Level Up milestones, is my go-to rankup these days. I’m done with all 2* and nearly done with all 3*, although I have a few left to top off for Level Up where needed.
They are resource-cheap—which means I can stockpile resources to add to my 5/6* roster if new content demand—and they can be used in Cav 4* challenge when it comes around.
Dr. Zola
How'm you get the appropriate ISO to rank up 4* over 5* and 6*?
Comments
My only hope is that rewards match the challenge since this isn't likely to use R3 6 stars.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they hard countered the top champs.
But if they don't advertise it as endgame content, complaining that it's too easy for you makes no sense as well.
The point of it was feedback for future content, not an attempt to change current content. Obviously that is not a true statement for every single person, I’m sure somebody who doesn’t understand that a game needs to have lots of widely accessible content and that development takes time was clamoring for it, but that hypothetical person is silly and probably smells bad. Don’t listen to them.
I think this is where the irritation stems from. We’re saying things as notes for future content, but it is being read as complaints about present content. And, to an extent, that’s not a misreading. When a big piece of content drops and I rip through it without having to really consider any matchups, I’m disappointed. So to that point, it is a bit of a complaint. But it is a complaint directed towards the next project because I know Kabam isn’t going to go in and change something released because Wicket329 had some pointers. But with enough volume and repetition, those points might make it back to the Devs and maybe they’ll tweak something down the line. That’s the hope.
Now the Carina Challenge. They have specifically said that it's going to be hard even for TB. If it's easy, the go ahead. Raise a stink. Because it's definitely not they would have said then.
Threads that say that 'make endgame content' are better than 'V7 is too easy'. While they may sound the same in your perspective, one is asking for content, one is telling that stuff which isn't aimed to the real endgamers is too easy which obviously it is and doesn't prove anything.
Atleast that's what I feel.
Wtf does anyone want to rank a 4* champ for. I want to open up Doom like I can in Abyss (although I then get auto killed at 200 combo)
We are prob only 1 year if that away from r4 6* and be stuck with cav eq to run every month. It makes not sense to longevity of game.
I personally believe allowing newer people to burn through story created this entitlement issue. Example act 7 should be locked behind 100% act 6, which is locked behind 100% act 5 etc...
every piece of content is 'too ez", then when others less fortunate complain about problematic fights ( like pre nerf acid wash mysterio), hey it is "too ez". There is where my "vitriol" stems from. Either ways, those are my viewpoints and i find it pointless to go back and forth. We can agree to disagree.
They are resource-cheap—which means I can stockpile resources to add to my 5/6* roster if new content demand—and they can be used in Cav 4* challenge when it comes around.
Dr. Zola
I don’t really open any crystals (except 5/6*) causes iso always needs to be sold