Alliance Wars Season 33 Changelog, Rewards Update, Loyalty Store and Glory Store Updates!

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Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,482 ★★★★★

    So about those prices….they suck lol given the general response I suppose that’s a given tho. So if you’re gonna keep prices this high(which again why???) I’d HOPE you’re gonna increase potion size and allow players better access to more loyalty than they’re getting atm bc players are gonna struggle getting enough for both potions AND boosts at this point. Not everyone is down to spending units(and some people cash) to compete in these war seasons.
    …granted I never understood the need to separate AQ and AW potions anyway.

    Therein lies the fundamental problem. Not to disregard how people feel about these changes, because people have the right to their opinion.
    As long as the game is a "Freemium"-style game, people will have the ability to advance faster and better through spending. The game guarantees everyone can play for free. What it doesn't guarantee is that everyone will be able to compete at the highest levels for free.
    We can't always expect to be at the top without spending. That's pretty much a universal truth with games that allow for spending. As unfair as people think it is, that's just how it goes.
  • RaganatorRaganator Member Posts: 2,533 ★★★★★

    So about those prices….they suck lol given the general response I suppose that’s a given tho. So if you’re gonna keep prices this high(which again why???) I’d HOPE you’re gonna increase potion size and allow players better access to more loyalty than they’re getting atm bc players are gonna struggle getting enough for both potions AND boosts at this point. Not everyone is down to spending units(and some people cash) to compete in these war seasons.
    …granted I never understood the need to separate AQ and AW potions anyway.

    Therein lies the fundamental problem. Not to disregard how people feel about these changes, because people have the right to their opinion.
    As long as the game is a "Freemium"-style game, people will have the ability to advance faster and better through spending. The game guarantees everyone can play for free. What it doesn't guarantee is that everyone will be able to compete at the highest levels for free.
    We can't always expect to be at the top without spending. That's pretty much a universal truth with games that allow for spending. As unfair as people think it is, that's just how it goes.
    I don't disagree - but wouldn't it be nice if they just had one game mode where non-spenders could compete with spenders at the highest level? The older this game gets, the more (it seems) they want to nickel and dime the player base. We already know they plan to monetize the hell out of Battlegrounds.

    I am not an AW fan, but I've at least found it more fun and engaging when I haven't had to allocate resources to the mode. The best thing they could do for AW is to keep providing the boosts and pots weekly. We know it won't happen, but it would keep people engaged rather than running for the hills (which, for the record, I doubt will actually happen).
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,482 ★★★★★
    Zan0 said:

    @GroundedWisdom get out of this thread, you don’t have the experience to comment on war issues, do you even play war?

    We took the Season off because we organized too late. Normally we do.
    I've been a voice on War as long as I've been on the Forum. I was in the first Beta for them. I've had numerous suggestions on them. I don't need to provide a resume, but since you asked...I'm not going anywhere.
    Perhaps you could disagree in a more mature manner.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,482 ★★★★★
    Raganator said:

    So about those prices….they suck lol given the general response I suppose that’s a given tho. So if you’re gonna keep prices this high(which again why???) I’d HOPE you’re gonna increase potion size and allow players better access to more loyalty than they’re getting atm bc players are gonna struggle getting enough for both potions AND boosts at this point. Not everyone is down to spending units(and some people cash) to compete in these war seasons.
    …granted I never understood the need to separate AQ and AW potions anyway.

    Therein lies the fundamental problem. Not to disregard how people feel about these changes, because people have the right to their opinion.
    As long as the game is a "Freemium"-style game, people will have the ability to advance faster and better through spending. The game guarantees everyone can play for free. What it doesn't guarantee is that everyone will be able to compete at the highest levels for free.
    We can't always expect to be at the top without spending. That's pretty much a universal truth with games that allow for spending. As unfair as people think it is, that's just how it goes.
    I don't disagree - but wouldn't it be nice if they just had one game mode where non-spenders could compete with spenders at the highest level? The older this game gets, the more (it seems) they want to nickel and dime the player base. We already know they plan to monetize the hell out of Battlegrounds.

    I am not an AW fan, but I've at least found it more fun and engaging when I haven't had to allocate resources to the mode. The best thing they could do for AW is to keep providing the boosts and pots weekly. We know it won't happen, but it would keep people engaged rather than running for the hills (which, for the record, I doubt will actually happen).
    The issue is the competitive nature of War. Would it be nice? Sure. In fact, there are some areas that people compete for free. Very few that spending alone dominates. I hear you, I'm just saying it's how it is.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,276 Guardian
    Gamer said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    ChriissR said:

    They arent fixing it. They just added the mid season update for Alliance quest and included the same potion design in the notes. This company is the most fraudulent company out there. Absolute joke

    They are in fact working on what I would describe as substantive changes to the potion system. However, in my opinion they rushed the first announcement without properly vetting it, and it contained huge errors in data and design as a result. I don't think they want to make the same mistake twice, and are being extra cautious before releasing any information about the changes being contemplated and reviewed.
    Well from the information that we have heard Kabam 100% wants to keep the potions limited to 7 purchased per week with loyalty. No cap on unit purchases of course. Also the loyalty price won't change but there will be an increase in loyalty given for a win. However, do not expect the increase to be substantial.
    I’ve heard something different.
    What have you heard? Because my information comes from a pretty reliable source.
    My information comes from direct knowledge of what the changes will be. I suspect your reliable source is leaking intermittent random information from a very extensive and complex discussion.

    The reason why this stuff takes as long as it does is because it isn't enough to just say the devs are wrong. You have to figure out why they are wrong, how they arrived at the wrong numbers, because you can't just tell them two is wrong, it should be eight, and then they can just pencil eight in there. There has to be a system, a logic that generates the eight. You have to hash out which guiding principles led the devs to two, and what we have to replace them with that will lead them to an eight. And there were several principles built into the original announcement that needed to be isolated, discussed, and replaced by general agreement.

    This takes time, this takes a lot of work, and this is easy to mischaracterize from the outside. Personally, I'm a chatter box. If it was up to me, I would be posting regular updates on the process itself. But that's not for me to do. Absent that, I can say that the people on the outside saying how easy it should be to just "change the numbers" with a snap of the fingers and "fix" the system simply have no understanding of how any of this works, or how much effort the players with direct feedback channels are expending to try to work with the devs to improve things. That's not Kabam being intransigent, that's just the reality of development. You have to make a logical case, backed up with strong evidence, and build consensus to change things, because every game change, even the horrible ones, were also generated from the same foundation. If that foundation is flawed, it is not enough to point out its flaws. You have to replace it with something better.

    In any case, everyone will be able to judge for themselves soon enough.
    So they announced the "fix" and it does sound alot like what I explained. Loyalty increase of 54k per win, a limit of 5 you can purchase...oh but they did give us a 1 day timer for the reset...God bless, with all that loyalty they are giving out per win the 1 day timer is sooo clutch

    @DNA3000
    Actually, almost nothing of what your "reliable source" told you was accurate:

    Well from the information that we have heard Kabam 100% wants to keep the potions limited to 7 purchased per week with loyalty. No cap on unit purchases of course. Also the loyalty price won't change but there will be an increase in loyalty given for a win. However, do not expect the increase to be substantial.

    1. Potions are not limited to seven per week. They are limited to forty per day on a sliding cost scale. Even if we only count the largest solo and team potions as the most efficient ones, and even if we only count the initial two that start with lower stepped costs, that's still four per day or twenty eight per week, which in no universe rounds to about seven.

    2. Loyalty increase was substantial. Unless you could increasing total loyalty earned by a factor of three on average to be not substantial. On top of that, loyalty isn't just increased for wins, it also increases for losses which means alliances do not need to win at a high percentage to benefit from the loyalty gains. Above Normal difficulty the loyalty earned from losses is about twice as high as it used to be for wins. I would consider that substantial.

    If what you described and what was announced sounds similar to you, I'm not sure what would sound different. A billion loyalty per war and a fifty potion limit per minute?
    Again if you don’t win you start to losing alot so the system how flaw stop defending Kabam now I’m tierd of it I’m pretty sure you in CCP but don’t said this is golden because it ain’t I’m ready to leave the game again can’t hav faith in Kabam.
    Whether someone likes the updated system depends on a lot of factors. The shift away from glory is going to help a lot of players who can now hold onto more glory, provided they can keep up with loyalty. Low to intermediate potion users are likely to come out ahead. High potion users are likely to be more constrained with this system. That's something I think should be further tackled, but specific numbers would be helpful.

    The argument I've made is that balancing around averages is fraught with problems, specifically because potion use ranges across a very wide range of different situations. But how many people are in those situations, and what they are specifically doing to try to manage those situations is not something datamining can really fully articulate. If players want to see further changes to the system, the best thing to do would be to be specific. What were you doing before, specifically. What do you think you'll have to do now, specifically. What's the gap between the two.

    "This sucks because its pay to win and impossible to do war and too expensive" might be true, but it is also not going to change anything without specifics. The changes incorporate a lot of specific situations. If you want yours to be heard, you have to make the case specifically.
  • Yodabolt21Yodabolt21 Member Posts: 2,591 ★★★★★
    JJ4 said:



    No, we based this on what was used before the Compensation started.

    So... before r4 were introduced. And also during Summer of Pain, which saw A MASSIVE influx in r3 champs due to rewards for that.

    You guys are so out of touch it isn't even funny. @Kabam Miike

  • Amms90Amms90 Member Posts: 338 ★★★
    OGAvenger said:

    You all need to think about this differently…

    If you never lose any health, then you’ll never need to get potions! 🤔

    fair enough... we should just use mods and never bother actually playing the game in a sportsmanlike fasion
  • Mik81Mik81 Member Posts: 92 ★★
    edited April 2022
    OGAvenger said:

    You all need to think about this differently…

    If you never lose any health, then you’ll never need to get potions! 🤔

    Hey! or even simpler, if we don play AW or care about it we won't need them either!!
  • TyphoonTyphoon Member Posts: 1,796 ★★★★★
    edited April 2022
    Thanks for making it easier for me to stop playing war.
  • MauledMauled Member, Guardian Posts: 3,957 Guardian

    What is so surprising is the numbers they used were before the compensation started, which was the START of proliferation of r3s in war. Who is incharge of these delusional decisions?
    now exclusively r3s are used in war, with r4s as well. 9.5 heals NOTHING.
    Upon that, you have delayed the start of these potions to AFTER war season start, so we are starting with ZERO potions. Incompetence at its finest, what a joke of a change. To think i actually had hope in this announcement.
    You guys just killed the flourishing war scene.

    We did not ignore the inflation of HP from Rank 3 to Rank 4, and included those in our calculations. We based it on the average number of potions used, then inflated for the change.
    So tell me Miike, r4 apoc, unboosted, is 52k health.
    boosted, 70-80k health. The potions you guys are offering us, heal 9.5k. One near death/death bankrupts us now? healing him also equates to 3 wins in war. What sort of calculations/justifications has the team done?
    That's not the question we set out to answer. The question was "How many Glory Potions did Summoners use on a regular basis". That is what we based our calculations on. People were not regularly fully healing their Champions with potions they got from the Glory store.
    The reason for that is because the glory store potions were already outdated before the compensation started. Outside of the very top end of alliance war where there are players who are consistently finishing all of their paths with 90% everybody used these health potions all season and had to ration them so carefully between war and AQ. One bad war could genuinely ruin your entire season. That wasn’t sustainable then when we were primarily using 5* and it certainly isn’t now when nobody even has 5* on their team unless it’s for a synergy.
  • MauledMauled Member, Guardian Posts: 3,957 Guardian

    What a joke 😂😂 has anyone at kabam actually ever played a T1 war before? If they did I’m certain they would realize this change is bad for everyone

    I’d like all of the devs to make an alliance and see where they place. Watching them item out for P4 would prove all of the lack of thought that went into this update.
  • MikeTheMighty1MikeTheMighty1 Member Posts: 15
    Those new loyalty update changes are in no way sufficient.

    This game is so broken. AQ and AW are both awful game modes.
  • Kappa2gKappa2g Member Posts: 278 ★★★
    The purchase limit and availability issue was indeed solved with the changes, however it seems like the issue of cost was never addressed/in mind.

    Prior to the changes and compensation players have always used loyalty to purchase class boosts and invuln/powerstart/regen boosts and no one buying them regularly could have built up a loyalty stash, now potions are also added to loyalty cost and what was done was simply multiplying the loyalty gained per war by 5 times, thats it?

    I doubt your data will show much changes next season while compensation is still going on, but when thats gone, we all know what will happen to the numbers in AW. Then you will realize how much good faith will be needed to draw players back into the mode.
  • RaganatorRaganator Member Posts: 2,533 ★★★★★
    edited April 2022
    thepiggy said:



    Out of pocket alliance potions are entry fees that will never work. You don't seem to realize it (or refuse to acknowledge it), but many players already spend $3000-$4000 a year on deals just to maintain their spot on a team, why are you risk all of that on something so silly like a potion tax?

    Exactly. Dying in AW is and should be THE penalty and the one that matters. Everything else is monetization.
  • JJ4JJ4 Member Posts: 44

    What a joke 😂😂 has anyone at kabam actually ever played a T1 war before? If they did I’m certain they would realize this change is bad for everyone

    They would never get that high. They would quit because of the frustration of using all their items due to the bugs we have to live with daily .
This discussion has been closed.