Stop Complaining About Rifts!

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Comments

  • Jeal79Jeal79 Member Posts: 444 ★★★
    edited October 2022


    you can smash out of 5/6paths of a quest in one sitting and be done with it. daily duels mean find and do it every single day. we havent even been told if these objectives stack up or how many max can we stack up we just have to do 1 everyday.


    They stack
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  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★

    jdeck59 said:

    jdeck59 said:

    People are getting so caught up in getting the "candy" they forgot what a side quest is.

    1. The candy store contains all the rewards one would normally get in a monthly side quest

    2. The side quest is one path a day/7 per week. You would normally need to do all four difficulties ~24 or so paths a week for the same rewards as the candy store.

    3. The RNG awards are among the best in the game. If you're lucky enough to get one then awesome, if not it is what it is. We are a long way from getting six star AGs as normal side quest rewards

    4. The alternative is going back to regular side quest, with multiple paths per week with zero chance of top tier rewards.


    It's like everyone is so caught up on not getting the AG that they forgot what a normal month is 🤦‍♂️

    1. The rewards for candy store is literally meaningless at this time. Its designed for same old cavalier.
    2. Normally need to do? Doing more difficultly means more rewards. Locking in one difficulty just means locking out lf rewards.
    3. Just check the feedbacks past rift rewards got. RNG is already in every crystal in the game. Bringing RNG to RNG is pointless.
    4. It atleast guarantees same rewards for the effort everyone puts! Effort is meaningless if everything is a lottery.

    Honestly can't believe there is anyone who can make worse argument than the ones you made.
    You realize the candy store is the exact same as every monthly side quest if you 100% all difficulties right?
    People will complain about the RNG of rifts every month, but still do them exactly the same as any other month. Kabam are not listening to the relatively small sample of the vocal minority who hate rifts, they are listening to the data of how many people are doing the rifts. Those of you who are complaining about rifts, put your candy where your mouth is and don’t do them if you hate them so much. That’s the only thing that’ll stop kabam doing them.

    If you complain about rifts, log off the forum grumbling and then go and do your rift, what message is that sending to Kabam?
    And honestly this is poor logic you got here @BitterSteel . So I don't like the way Kabam chooses to reward people so I should just simply not do it? This isn't the only side quest or just quest in general that I hate but still do it, because there are still rewards that I do want/need.

    I don't care if I walked away with 5 6* awakening gems. I'd still talk about how I hate the idea of the rewards people receive being based on RNG. Cause no matter what, there was the real chance i could have walked away with far far less. There will be people that walk away with far far less and it's not fair to them.

    So I'll continue to collect my daily candy. Grab the things here and there in the terrible candy store that I can use or need. Continue to bash this side quest, and there's nothing anyone can say that will change my opinion on this.
    A small minority complain every time rifts come up, if you think it’s going to change this time then there’s something that can be said for your persistence, if not for your effectiveness.

    I’m not saying you have a moral duty not to do it if you don’t like it. I’m saying that 30-50 people on the forum complaining and 100 people “agree reacting” to posts that complain clearly is not changing Kabam’s mind when they have hundreds of thousands of players actually doing the event.

    So it’s unfair that one player can come away with a 6* gem and others won’t, but it’s not unfair that one player can come away with a Hercules and one with drax?

    It’s just odd how people draw the distinction here to suit their complaints. There is a hell of a lot of non-RNG things in the game, BGs store, Glory store, Loyalty store, awakening gems that you choose who to use them on - it’s Rng for which class, but once I have a science I can use on whoever I want, that aspect isn’t RNG (and generic ones aren’t either). But there is also a hell of a lot of RNG, almost the entire champion acquisition system, classes of items/cats etc etc.

    There is also a whole heap of rewards that aren’t RNG in the candy store. Now, if your point was purely about the candy store I’d agree. It’s definitely time to have a TB and Paragon aspect to the store. That is the place that kabam are lagging behind on.

    Not to mention, that if all of you guys got your way and rifts and RNG was done away with for side quests, the highest value rewards would go down. Instead of 6* gems, we’d see T5B and 6* shards as the top prizes. Why? Because when things are RNG you can control how many get them. You want 10k 6* shards to go out to the average player, make the top prize 50k with a 20% chance. You don’t want RNG? Ok, now it’s a guaranteed 10k.

    You might think “yeah I’d prefer the guaranteed 10k” and yeah, personally I’d agree as I’m not that much of a gambler. But that’s not my point. Now imagine it with 6* gems, you can’t do X% of a 6* gem. So it’s either gonna be an RNG chance at it, or nothing. It’s replaced with something else less valuable.

    My overarching point is this - a small minority complaining on the forum is not going to get rid of rifts, because they haven’t managed it the last 5 times, rifts work, I personally think they’re fun and I’m not alone. The forum twists perspective sometimes and makes it seem like 99% of the playerbase hate something, but it’s 99% of the 50 angriest players who hate it so much. Most will shrug and try their chance at a 6* gem, disappointed if they don’t but not furious. They understand that there is RNG in the game and it’s not just limited to crystals.
    So just because Kabam isn't listening or caring about what some of the community says, I should just lay back, shut up, and fall in line? Am I understanding this right? I don't care how many times they've done or how many times they will do it. As a player of the game and a member of the community, I am allowed to let them know what my stance is on it. I will continue to fight this every time they introduce it.

    Also, you seem incredibly supportive of RNG, even to a fault I'd say. Shoot why should Kabam stop here? Make the rewards RNG for Act 8.2. Maybe you'll get r4 mats? Maybe you'll get a 1-2 gem instead. Or maybe you'll get 2 T5bc. Who knows? Let's just go ahead and add it everywhere huh? EQ, maybe you'll get 6* shards or maybe you'll get 5* ones instead.
    You seem quite aggressive about this. I'd probably just remind you that we simply have different opinions about the game that we play, it's really not that deep for you to be this angry. If the way I've said my points has offended you please let me know and I can apologise for any misunderstanding, I definitely didn't intend any offence. But if you're just offended by me having a different opinion, then I'd probably just take a step back and think about why you're so angry about someone having a different point of view. You aren't right just because you feel strongly about something.

    No, you shouldn't just shut up, I think all feedback is really important which is why I try not to ever tell people to stop adding to conversations even if I disagree with them. My point is that rifts have been in the game for years and years and they keep coming back, if they were actually unpopular with the game at large enough to impact player retention and monthly usage stats then Kabam would change it, they haven't changed it and in fact consistently bring them back, so they are clearly successful. You don't need to twist my words and claim I'm tell you to not give feedback, it doesn't help the message you're trying to give to kabam. Maybe this is the year that the vocal minority persuade rifts not to come back, but something about the last 5 times being the exact same cycle of rift, a few complain and repeat makes me doubt it.

    Also, that's a hell of a strawman you've got there, claiming that because I defend RNG in one place I would like it everywhere. It's a disingenuous way to argue and anyone with an IQ above room temperature can see that I haven't said what you're exaggerating my points to be.

    If you'd like to address my points without strawmanning them into me saying you should shut up, or that I want the entire game to be RNG, then I'll be happy to respond, if not, I don't see much point continuing if you won't discuss it genuinely.
    I'm just trying to make sure that when this conversation is said and done, that my point was heard and understood. In the end I'm sure we'll still have different opinions, and that's fine. I'm not trying to persuade you to agree with my outlook. Clearly your outlook is different from mine.

    Yeah RNG is nearly everywhere else in this game. That is just the way the game is. Whether 6* crystals or catalysts, etc. And obviously those alone leave people with disappointment. Now the rewards themselves are going to be RNG based too? Just to continue feelings of disappointment when people can't get those rewards. That doesn't sit well with me, never has. The only thing that kept me from really getting fired up in the past was that we could aquire keys to at least target rewards we wanted a few times. Didn't like the design but the keys made it feel like it wasn't as big of a deal. Now having rewards waved in my face with little to no chances of aquiring it, whatsoever, really doesn't sit well with me.

    Looking at people simply doing it, doesn't feel like a fair way to judge if people enjoy something or not. As I've said, there's been plenty of other things I have disliked in this game, but completed them nonetheless, cause I have a roster I'm continuously trying to expand. Just like everyone else.

    And sorry, but the way things were worded, it gave me the impression that you think I shouldn't express my opinion, because Kabam is going to continue to do what they want anyways. I will always throw my opinion in. No matter if you, Kabam, or anyone else likes it or not. I'm not trying to strawman you with anything, I'm simply responding with the impression you have given me throughout your argument.

    Rewards already have RNG factored into them. I don't want what rewards I get to be RNG based as well. Plain and simple.
    Part of the rewards are RNG. Same way in 8.1 you get some guaranteed rewards and some RNG, you get some RNG rewards from the rifts, and you get some guaranteed from the candy store. And I'll make a point in advance here, yes the store isn't quite up to scratch and needs a TB and Paragon level - but, we are talking about the concept of RNG here, not specifically about this one event, but about the principle of RNG. If the store had a TB/Paragon gate, then you would have better guaranteed rewards, but some RNG still available and that would be ok.

    If you want to drag the conversation off and say the store is bad, then I'd agree it's not the best, but if we're giving feedback about the event for future, then it's not a valid point since the assumption is by next year when rifts come back, we will have better overall side event rewards - including TB and Paragon level rewards.

    But your point is this: "I don't want what rewards I get to be RNG based as well". In that case, ask to improve the guaranteed rewards from the store, don't ask for RNG to be taken out of it.

    My point about the data is that if you look at the forum as your gauge for how things are received, it can easily point in the wrong direction. If you only look at this front page for example there's about 5 threads negative about the side quest. But people complain more than they praise, that's proven. And if people complain more than they praise, then it means the number of complaints may not be representative of how people in general feel about it. My alliance for example, don't really mind rifts, they don't love that there's a chance for nothing, but they are getting on with it.

    Take this thread for example, one of my comments has 5 disagrees and 1 agree, wow I must be super wrong! But, that's 6 people, and if the people who are more likely to complain and feel strongly about it are on the forum, then you can't just say well, 5 out of 6 players hate this. I'm not saying categorically whether more hate the event than love it, or how many just tolerate it and play it. But my guess is that a small number of players hate it, come to the forum and post about it and disagree with any comments that don't agree with them, creating the environment that everyone hates rifts, whereas the vast, vast majority of the player base are at best indifferent - and indifferent people don't come to the forum and say how much they love or hate and event, or agree/disagree with comments. Indifferent people get on with the event and hope that they get a 6* gem, if not, ah well, because they're fine when they miss out on a good champion from a crystal too.

    I believe people claim to hate RNG because often you're on the wrong side of it, but really as @DNA3000 has pointed out, it has the adrenaline rush that tempts people to do it more. Maybe not many will admit it, but that's what has people hooked into the lottery, opening Cavs etc.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★

    @BitterSteel why dont you tell kabam to also turn off all the QOL changes they have done for your account? its only a few more seconds for you right? wont cost you anything.

    rifts are fine but getting entry by dueling a certain person account every day is a chore any way you see it.
    if you think its just a few minutes worth of activity, well i wonder why kabam has been making so many QOL changes and why people have been loving them... oh wait they save us SECONDS of our life!

    and you cant disagree that people haven't been loving the QOL changes go and see any post they have a good amount of awesome reacts.
    just like how QOL changes save us a few seconds or minutes and save us from daily chores same way we would like these duels not to be part of the rifts.

    Why don't we just let ourselves skip fights in quests, it's more time taken right? Costs us time and it's a few minutes of activity each day! Well since Kabam have been saving so much time with QOL changes we should take it to the extreme and cut out all possible wastes of time, even if they give us rewards.

    See, I can make extreme, unhelpful exaggerations too.

    A QOL change is not a side quest. I gain nothing in game from levelling up a champion faster. The side quest fights itself take longer and more effort than duelling one 3* champion and you gain entry to the rift from that. Would I complain if Kabam put the rift entries in a calendar? No, I don't mind either way. But I think it's a little silly to complain about something that takes a minute of your time.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★
    Ghost_Fan said:

    Ghost_Fan said:

    Ghost_Fan said:

    jdeck59 said:

    The side quest is one path a day/7 per week. You would normally need to do all four difficulties ~24 or so paths a week for the same rewards as the candy store.

    You forgot to say that we have to complete the objectives as well. You forgot or didn't wanna mention it?
    How long would you estimate it takes you to do your objective?
    well I have to open the forums, find the thread, find the name, go and search the name, make sure I haven't done any spelling errors and then duel him. This is an annoying chore that we shouldn't have to do
    Oh that's weird, because I just checked how long it took me to do and it was 1 and a half minutes. And I wasn't even rushing.

    I can send you the screen recording if you’d like. Feel free to add me on Line, I’ll send it over. BitterSteel99

    I went from completely empty Home Screen, then type in mcoc forum, then open the most recent thread, copy a name, open the game and let it load, search the copy and pasted name and duelled the 3*, then went to objectives.

    I’m not sure what to say if you think less than 2 mins of your time is a chore, you could hold your breath longer than that..

    Of all the things to complain about, I think 1:30mins is quite a small one.
    1:30 every day for 30 days, equals to 45 mins. 45 mins that I would rather spend literally anywhere else. I really don't get why you are trying to defend something that shouldn't exist in the first place, especially since the introduction of practice mode

    And a chore isn't necessarily something that takes too much time. It's something that you feel forced to do EVERY SINGLE DAY
    The side quest takes about 5 mins to do, are you complaining about 1,500 minutes each month spent doing the side quest, that's a chore too!
  • Jeal79Jeal79 Member Posts: 444 ★★★
    I'd like to add that nobody here is in any position at all to comment that they are on the wrong side of RNG this early into the event.

    In part to bolster my argument (but also out of morbid curiosity) I have built up a replica random number generator in excel that simulates the results of 35 days using the path odds provided and ran this multiple times over. There wasn't a single occasion that turned out candy for all 35 days. The unluckiest run showed 19 days straight of candy but landed on three of rare paths over the remaining days.

    Happy to share any other stats/data determined by my simulations if anyone is interested in this kind of thing.
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  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★
    Jeal79 said:

    I'd like to add that nobody here is in any position at all to comment that they are on the wrong side of RNG this early into the event.

    In part to bolster my argument (but also out of morbid curiosity) I have built up a replica random number generator in excel that simulates the results of 35 days using the path odds provided and ran this multiple times over. There wasn't a single occasion that turned out candy for all 35 days. The unluckiest run showed 19 days straight of candy but landed on three of rare paths over the remaining days.

    Happy to share any other stats/data determined by my simulations if anyone is interested in this kind of thing.

    Yeah, it's a 2% chance to get Candy all 35 days. Yet a lot of people saying "the majority" of people will end up with only candy.
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  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★

    @BitterSteel why dont you tell kabam to also turn off all the QOL changes they have done for your account? its only a few more seconds for you right? wont cost you anything.

    rifts are fine but getting entry by dueling a certain person account every day is a chore any way you see it.
    if you think its just a few minutes worth of activity, well i wonder why kabam has been making so many QOL changes and why people have been loving them... oh wait they save us SECONDS of our life!

    and you cant disagree that people haven't been loving the QOL changes go and see any post they have a good amount of awesome reacts.
    just like how QOL changes save us a few seconds or minutes and save us from daily chores same way we would like these duels not to be part of the rifts.

    Why don't we just let ourselves skip fights in quests, it's more time taken right? Costs us time and it's a few minutes of activity each day! Well since Kabam have been saving so much time with QOL changes we should take it to the extreme and cut out all possible wastes of time, even if they give us rewards.

    See, I can make extreme, unhelpful exaggerations too.

    A QOL change is not a side quest. I gain nothing in game from levelling up a champion faster. The side quest fights itself take longer and more effort than duelling one 3* champion and you gain entry to the rift from that. Would I complain if Kabam put the rift entries in a calendar? No, I don't mind either way. But I think it's a little silly to complain about something that takes a minute of your time.
    cutting out the full fight would be cutting your enjoyment.
    gaining a entry key which consists of no challenge but just a something we need to do is infact a waste of time.

    you gain nothing from levelling up a champion faster same way you gain nothing from duelling a champion who you have to find everyday. its clearly just an extra step in getting the key which could have been from a calendar or some other challenge
    I get the grinding summer objective missions, but these gate key duels are worthless and should be removed.
    Do you "enjoy" the side quest fights? Or do you just go through them to get the rewards? What about arena, should we cut that out of the game, just load your champs in and get the rewards because that's a chore, nobody enjoys the fights of arena (except a few odd people I bet) so I'm sure you won't argue against cutting out arena fights.

    You do gain something from finding a champion and duelling them, you get entry to the rift. Same way that doing an arena fight gets you points. Let's cut both of them out, and just give people the rewards.
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  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★

    @BitterSteel why dont you tell kabam to also turn off all the QOL changes they have done for your account? its only a few more seconds for you right? wont cost you anything.

    rifts are fine but getting entry by dueling a certain person account every day is a chore any way you see it.
    if you think its just a few minutes worth of activity, well i wonder why kabam has been making so many QOL changes and why people have been loving them... oh wait they save us SECONDS of our life!

    and you cant disagree that people haven't been loving the QOL changes go and see any post they have a good amount of awesome reacts.
    just like how QOL changes save us a few seconds or minutes and save us from daily chores same way we would like these duels not to be part of the rifts.

    Why don't we just let ourselves skip fights in quests, it's more time taken right? Costs us time and it's a few minutes of activity each day! Well since Kabam have been saving so much time with QOL changes we should take it to the extreme and cut out all possible wastes of time, even if they give us rewards.

    See, I can make extreme, unhelpful exaggerations too.

    A QOL change is not a side quest. I gain nothing in game from levelling up a champion faster. The side quest fights itself take longer and more effort than duelling one 3* champion and you gain entry to the rift from that. Would I complain if Kabam put the rift entries in a calendar? No, I don't mind either way. But I think it's a little silly to complain about something that takes a minute of your time.
    cutting out the full fight would be cutting your enjoyment.
    gaining a entry key which consists of no challenge but just a something we need to do is infact a waste of time.

    you gain nothing from levelling up a champion faster same way you gain nothing from duelling a champion who you have to find everyday. its clearly just an extra step in getting the key which could have been from a calendar or some other challenge
    I get the grinding summer objective missions, but these gate key duels are worthless and should be removed.
    Do you "enjoy" the side quest fights? Or do you just go through them to get the rewards? What about arena, should we cut that out of the game, just load your champs in and get the rewards because that's a chore, nobody enjoys the fights of arena (except a few odd people I bet) so I'm sure you won't argue against cutting out arena fights.

    You do gain something from finding a champion and duelling them, you get entry to the rift. Same way that doing an arena fight gets you points. Let's cut both of them out, and just give people the rewards.
    i mentioned in my second answer some parts of game will have the grind effect
    this isnt even close to it. Its different than all other because its not in game fighting only.
    in all others we can just start and fight
    in this objective we have to find then search for the perfect id and get the fight done.

    if we had quests it would be more straight forward and far better

    you can keep saying lets cut this and that as comparison but make no mistake nobody has ever made complaints about cutting those. wonder why? because this isn't a game grind thats necessary. the key you gain could have been gained through a better objective or straight up calendar like they do.
    We won't agree so I don't see much point continuing on this point. Overall, it's a tiny amount of effort for a chance at a 6* gem, there are much, much bigger things to complain about.
  • Jeal79Jeal79 Member Posts: 444 ★★★
    Here's why there's a pre-requisite fight to gain access to the rift. Two reasons...

    1. (fun) You get to learn a little piece of trivia about a champion in the game. I had no idea that Super Skrull was trapped in a volcano or that Air Walker used to be Nova Corps... Etc
    2. (engagement) DAILY discussions on who the clue refers to across ALL media (here, twitter, LINE, YouTube, Facebook) people talking about the game across multiple platforms on a Daily basis. You understand how that is a huge benefit to the game right?
  • KerneasKerneas Member Posts: 3,827 ★★★★★
    It's still not a great event, rifts RNG aside.

    Duels are always idiotic way of doing objectives. And sorry, finding champs like Gorr in quests is hard. At least allow practise tbh

    The event has annoying defenders for okay rewards. Gets boring soon.

    Daily content was always a thing players hated. Weekly unlocks had a better reception from the playerbase, so idk why they didn't stick to that.

    Also the availability of new Cav crystals is stupid. Last months we got shards alongside normal rewards and opened those 2-3 crystals weekly. This time we use all candy on better rewards and get those cavs only at the very end when there's nothing better to buy. Imo it was a nice refreshment to open 1-2 cavs at a time through the month
  • Jeal79Jeal79 Member Posts: 444 ★★★
    What's stopping you opening 2-3 Cavs every couple of days here? They are in a store you can buy at anytime. If that's what you like doing, then you do you but don't complain about a fictional problem that doesn't exist.
  • Fx12672Fx12672 Member Posts: 28
    Kerneas said:

    It's still not a great event, rifts RNG aside.

    Duels are always idiotic way of doing objectives. And sorry, finding champs like Gorr in quests is hard. At least allow practise tbh

    The event has annoying defenders for okay rewards. Gets boring soon.

    Daily content was always a thing players hated. Weekly unlocks had a better reception from the playerbase, so idk why they didn't stick to that.

    Also the availability of new Cav crystals is stupid. Last months we got shards alongside normal rewards and opened those 2-3 crystals weekly. This time we use all candy on better rewards and get those cavs only at the very end when there's nothing better to buy. Imo it was a nice refreshment to open 1-2 cavs at a time through the month

    Your getting more cavs this month and your complaining about them... That is a lack of discipline on your part. One day a week spending candy on cavs would reach the same result that you want. That still is better then last month considering youd get 4 cav crystals instead of the 2-3 for a QUARTER of the time.
  • GinjabredMonstaGinjabredMonsta Member, Guardian Posts: 6,482 Guardian
    Jeal79 said:

    I'd like to add that nobody here is in any position at all to comment that they are on the wrong side of RNG this early into the event.

    In part to bolster my argument (but also out of morbid curiosity) I have built up a replica random number generator in excel that simulates the results of 35 days using the path odds provided and ran this multiple times over. There wasn't a single occasion that turned out candy for all 35 days. The unluckiest run showed 19 days straight of candy but landed on three of rare paths over the remaining days.

    Happy to share any other stats/data determined by my simulations if anyone is interested in this kind of thing.

    Well I really hope I’m. It on that unluckiest side of your test. I’ve already got 3 rare item days on my belt
  • TrenzaloreTrenzalore Member Posts: 182 ★★★
    This months side quest is a horrible conglomeration of the worst parts of past months side quests. Generally October is the best month in the MCOC but this has been one of the worse side quests I can remember.
  • Charlie21540Charlie21540 Member Posts: 946 ★★★★

    jdeck59 said:

    jdeck59 said:

    People are getting so caught up in getting the "candy" they forgot what a side quest is.

    1. The candy store contains all the rewards one would normally get in a monthly side quest

    2. The side quest is one path a day/7 per week. You would normally need to do all four difficulties ~24 or so paths a week for the same rewards as the candy store.

    3. The RNG awards are among the best in the game. If you're lucky enough to get one then awesome, if not it is what it is. We are a long way from getting six star AGs as normal side quest rewards

    4. The alternative is going back to regular side quest, with multiple paths per week with zero chance of top tier rewards.


    It's like everyone is so caught up on not getting the AG that they forgot what a normal month is 🤦‍♂️

    1. The rewards for candy store is literally meaningless at this time. Its designed for same old cavalier.
    2. Normally need to do? Doing more difficultly means more rewards. Locking in one difficulty just means locking out lf rewards.
    3. Just check the feedbacks past rift rewards got. RNG is already in every crystal in the game. Bringing RNG to RNG is pointless.
    4. It atleast guarantees same rewards for the effort everyone puts! Effort is meaningless if everything is a lottery.

    Honestly can't believe there is anyone who can make worse argument than the ones you made.
    You realize the candy store is the exact same as every monthly side quest if you 100% all difficulties right?
    People will complain about the RNG of rifts every month, but still do them exactly the same as any other month. Kabam are not listening to the relatively small sample of the vocal minority who hate rifts, they are listening to the data of how many people are doing the rifts. Those of you who are complaining about rifts, put your candy where your mouth is and don’t do them if you hate them so much. That’s the only thing that’ll stop kabam doing them.

    If you complain about rifts, log off the forum grumbling and then go and do your rift, what message is that sending to Kabam?
    And honestly this is poor logic you got here @BitterSteel . So I don't like the way Kabam chooses to reward people so I should just simply not do it? This isn't the only side quest or just quest in general that I hate but still do it, because there are still rewards that I do want/need.

    I don't care if I walked away with 5 6* awakening gems. I'd still talk about how I hate the idea of the rewards people receive being based on RNG. Cause no matter what, there was the real chance i could have walked away with far far less. There will be people that walk away with far far less and it's not fair to them.

    So I'll continue to collect my daily candy. Grab the things here and there in the terrible candy store that I can use or need. Continue to bash this side quest, and there's nothing anyone can say that will change my opinion on this.
    A small minority complain every time rifts come up, if you think it’s going to change this time then there’s something that can be said for your persistence, if not for your effectiveness.

    I’m not saying you have a moral duty not to do it if you don’t like it. I’m saying that 30-50 people on the forum complaining and 100 people “agree reacting” to posts that complain clearly is not changing Kabam’s mind when they have hundreds of thousands of players actually doing the event.

    So it’s unfair that one player can come away with a 6* gem and others won’t, but it’s not unfair that one player can come away with a Hercules and one with drax?

    It’s just odd how people draw the distinction here to suit their complaints. There is a hell of a lot of non-RNG things in the game, BGs store, Glory store, Loyalty store, awakening gems that you choose who to use them on - it’s Rng for which class, but once I have a science I can use on whoever I want, that aspect isn’t RNG (and generic ones aren’t either). But there is also a hell of a lot of RNG, almost the entire champion acquisition system, classes of items/cats etc etc.

    There is also a whole heap of rewards that aren’t RNG in the candy store. Now, if your point was purely about the candy store I’d agree. It’s definitely time to have a TB and Paragon aspect to the store. That is the place that kabam are lagging behind on.

    Not to mention, that if all of you guys got your way and rifts and RNG was done away with for side quests, the highest value rewards would go down. Instead of 6* gems, we’d see T5B and 6* shards as the top prizes. Why? Because when things are RNG you can control how many get them. You want 10k 6* shards to go out to the average player, make the top prize 50k with a 20% chance. You don’t want RNG? Ok, now it’s a guaranteed 10k.

    You might think “yeah I’d prefer the guaranteed 10k” and yeah, personally I’d agree as I’m not that much of a gambler. But that’s not my point. Now imagine it with 6* gems, you can’t do X% of a 6* gem. So it’s either gonna be an RNG chance at it, or nothing. It’s replaced with something else less valuable.

    My overarching point is this - a small minority complaining on the forum is not going to get rid of rifts, because they haven’t managed it the last 5 times, rifts work, I personally think they’re fun and I’m not alone. The forum twists perspective sometimes and makes it seem like 99% of the playerbase hate something, but it’s 99% of the 50 angriest players who hate it so much. Most will shrug and try their chance at a 6* gem, disappointed if they don’t but not furious. They understand that there is RNG in the game and it’s not just limited to crystals.
    So just because Kabam isn't listening or caring about what some of the community says, I should just lay back, shut up, and fall in line? Am I understanding this right? I don't care how many times they've done or how many times they will do it. As a player of the game and a member of the community, I am allowed to let them know what my stance is on it. I will continue to fight this every time they introduce it.

    Also, you seem incredibly supportive of RNG, even to a fault I'd say. Shoot why should Kabam stop here? Make the rewards RNG for Act 8.2. Maybe you'll get r4 mats? Maybe you'll get a 1-2 gem instead. Or maybe you'll get 2 T5bc. Who knows? Let's just go ahead and add it everywhere huh? EQ, maybe you'll get 6* shards or maybe you'll get 5* ones instead.
    You seem quite aggressive about this. I'd probably just remind you that we simply have different opinions about the game that we play, it's really not that deep for you to be this angry. If the way I've said my points has offended you please let me know and I can apologise for any misunderstanding, I definitely didn't intend any offence. But if you're just offended by me having a different opinion, then I'd probably just take a step back and think about why you're so angry about someone having a different point of view. You aren't right just because you feel strongly about something.

    No, you shouldn't just shut up, I think all feedback is really important which is why I try not to ever tell people to stop adding to conversations even if I disagree with them. My point is that rifts have been in the game for years and years and they keep coming back, if they were actually unpopular with the game at large enough to impact player retention and monthly usage stats then Kabam would change it, they haven't changed it and in fact consistently bring them back, so they are clearly successful. You don't need to twist my words and claim I'm tell you to not give feedback, it doesn't help the message you're trying to give to kabam. Maybe this is the year that the vocal minority persuade rifts not to come back, but something about the last 5 times being the exact same cycle of rift, a few complain and repeat makes me doubt it.

    Also, that's a hell of a strawman you've got there, claiming that because I defend RNG in one place I would like it everywhere. It's a disingenuous way to argue and anyone with an IQ above room temperature can see that I haven't said what you're exaggerating my points to be.

    If you'd like to address my points without strawmanning them into me saying you should shut up, or that I want the entire game to be RNG, then I'll be happy to respond, if not, I don't see much point continuing if you won't discuss it genuinely.
    I'm just trying to make sure that when this conversation is said and done, that my point was heard and understood. In the end I'm sure we'll still have different opinions, and that's fine. I'm not trying to persuade you to agree with my outlook. Clearly your outlook is different from mine.

    Yeah RNG is nearly everywhere else in this game. That is just the way the game is. Whether 6* crystals or catalysts, etc. And obviously those alone leave people with disappointment. Now the rewards themselves are going to be RNG based too? Just to continue feelings of disappointment when people can't get those rewards. That doesn't sit well with me, never has. The only thing that kept me from really getting fired up in the past was that we could aquire keys to at least target rewards we wanted a few times. Didn't like the design but the keys made it feel like it wasn't as big of a deal. Now having rewards waved in my face with little to no chances of aquiring it, whatsoever, really doesn't sit well with me.

    Looking at people simply doing it, doesn't feel like a fair way to judge if people enjoy something or not. As I've said, there's been plenty of other things I have disliked in this game, but completed them nonetheless, cause I have a roster I'm continuously trying to expand. Just like everyone else.

    And sorry, but the way things were worded, it gave me the impression that you think I shouldn't express my opinion, because Kabam is going to continue to do what they want anyways. I will always throw my opinion in. No matter if you, Kabam, or anyone else likes it or not. I'm not trying to strawman you with anything, I'm simply responding with the impression you have given me throughout your argument.

    Rewards already have RNG factored into them. I don't want what rewards I get to be RNG based as well. Plain and simple.
    Part of the rewards are RNG. Same way in 8.1 you get some guaranteed rewards and some RNG, you get some RNG rewards from the rifts, and you get some guaranteed from the candy store. And I'll make a point in advance here, yes the store isn't quite up to scratch and needs a TB and Paragon level - but, we are talking about the concept of RNG here, not specifically about this one event, but about the principle of RNG. If the store had a TB/Paragon gate, then you would have better guaranteed rewards, but some RNG still available and that would be ok.

    If you want to drag the conversation off and say the store is bad, then I'd agree it's not the best, but if we're giving feedback about the event for future, then it's not a valid point since the assumption is by next year when rifts come back, we will have better overall side event rewards - including TB and Paragon level rewards.

    But your point is this: "I don't want what rewards I get to be RNG based as well". In that case, ask to improve the guaranteed rewards from the store, don't ask for RNG to be taken out of it.

    My point about the data is that if you look at the forum as your gauge for how things are received, it can easily point in the wrong direction. If you only look at this front page for example there's about 5 threads negative about the side quest. But people complain more than they praise, that's proven. And if people complain more than they praise, then it means the number of complaints may not be representative of how people in general feel about it. My alliance for example, don't really mind rifts, they don't love that there's a chance for nothing, but they are getting on with it.

    Take this thread for example, one of my comments has 5 disagrees and 1 agree, wow I must be super wrong! But, that's 6 people, and if the people who are more likely to complain and feel strongly about it are on the forum, then you can't just say well, 5 out of 6 players hate this. I'm not saying categorically whether more hate the event than love it, or how many just tolerate it and play it. But my guess is that a small number of players hate it, come to the forum and post about it and disagree with any comments that don't agree with them, creating the environment that everyone hates rifts, whereas the vast, vast majority of the player base are at best indifferent - and indifferent people don't come to the forum and say how much they love or hate and event, or agree/disagree with comments. Indifferent people get on with the event and hope that they get a 6* gem, if not, ah well, because they're fine when they miss out on a good champion from a crystal too.

    I believe people claim to hate RNG because often you're on the wrong side of it, but really as @DNA3000 has pointed out, it has the adrenaline rush that tempts people to do it more. Maybe not many will admit it, but that's what has people hooked into the lottery, opening Cavs etc.
    Honestly, it just feels like you're arguing with me for the sake of just arguing. 8.1 rewards are GUARANTEED. What you get when you open them is RNG based. I'm not arguing that fact, and I'm not trying to change it. I want guaranteed rewards. I feel I have made that undeniably clear. You seem to be struggling to process that. Hopefully someone else here can make that more clear because I can't.

    I agree with you 100% about the candy store. I agree you can't solely use the forums for peoples opinions as whole, for the community, but you also can't just use data that says people are doing it. I've dont plenty of quests I didn't like. Something i think would be useful is those surveys kabam sends out from time to time. I haven't seen one in awhile. I think those should be sent out some more.

    I'm sure the rifts will return somewhere done the road, see you then for another argument!
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★

    jdeck59 said:

    jdeck59 said:

    People are getting so caught up in getting the "candy" they forgot what a side quest is.

    1. The candy store contains all the rewards one would normally get in a monthly side quest

    2. The side quest is one path a day/7 per week. You would normally need to do all four difficulties ~24 or so paths a week for the same rewards as the candy store.

    3. The RNG awards are among the best in the game. If you're lucky enough to get one then awesome, if not it is what it is. We are a long way from getting six star AGs as normal side quest rewards

    4. The alternative is going back to regular side quest, with multiple paths per week with zero chance of top tier rewards.


    It's like everyone is so caught up on not getting the AG that they forgot what a normal month is 🤦‍♂️

    1. The rewards for candy store is literally meaningless at this time. Its designed for same old cavalier.
    2. Normally need to do? Doing more difficultly means more rewards. Locking in one difficulty just means locking out lf rewards.
    3. Just check the feedbacks past rift rewards got. RNG is already in every crystal in the game. Bringing RNG to RNG is pointless.
    4. It atleast guarantees same rewards for the effort everyone puts! Effort is meaningless if everything is a lottery.

    Honestly can't believe there is anyone who can make worse argument than the ones you made.
    You realize the candy store is the exact same as every monthly side quest if you 100% all difficulties right?
    People will complain about the RNG of rifts every month, but still do them exactly the same as any other month. Kabam are not listening to the relatively small sample of the vocal minority who hate rifts, they are listening to the data of how many people are doing the rifts. Those of you who are complaining about rifts, put your candy where your mouth is and don’t do them if you hate them so much. That’s the only thing that’ll stop kabam doing them.

    If you complain about rifts, log off the forum grumbling and then go and do your rift, what message is that sending to Kabam?
    And honestly this is poor logic you got here @BitterSteel . So I don't like the way Kabam chooses to reward people so I should just simply not do it? This isn't the only side quest or just quest in general that I hate but still do it, because there are still rewards that I do want/need.

    I don't care if I walked away with 5 6* awakening gems. I'd still talk about how I hate the idea of the rewards people receive being based on RNG. Cause no matter what, there was the real chance i could have walked away with far far less. There will be people that walk away with far far less and it's not fair to them.

    So I'll continue to collect my daily candy. Grab the things here and there in the terrible candy store that I can use or need. Continue to bash this side quest, and there's nothing anyone can say that will change my opinion on this.
    A small minority complain every time rifts come up, if you think it’s going to change this time then there’s something that can be said for your persistence, if not for your effectiveness.

    I’m not saying you have a moral duty not to do it if you don’t like it. I’m saying that 30-50 people on the forum complaining and 100 people “agree reacting” to posts that complain clearly is not changing Kabam’s mind when they have hundreds of thousands of players actually doing the event.

    So it’s unfair that one player can come away with a 6* gem and others won’t, but it’s not unfair that one player can come away with a Hercules and one with drax?

    It’s just odd how people draw the distinction here to suit their complaints. There is a hell of a lot of non-RNG things in the game, BGs store, Glory store, Loyalty store, awakening gems that you choose who to use them on - it’s Rng for which class, but once I have a science I can use on whoever I want, that aspect isn’t RNG (and generic ones aren’t either). But there is also a hell of a lot of RNG, almost the entire champion acquisition system, classes of items/cats etc etc.

    There is also a whole heap of rewards that aren’t RNG in the candy store. Now, if your point was purely about the candy store I’d agree. It’s definitely time to have a TB and Paragon aspect to the store. That is the place that kabam are lagging behind on.

    Not to mention, that if all of you guys got your way and rifts and RNG was done away with for side quests, the highest value rewards would go down. Instead of 6* gems, we’d see T5B and 6* shards as the top prizes. Why? Because when things are RNG you can control how many get them. You want 10k 6* shards to go out to the average player, make the top prize 50k with a 20% chance. You don’t want RNG? Ok, now it’s a guaranteed 10k.

    You might think “yeah I’d prefer the guaranteed 10k” and yeah, personally I’d agree as I’m not that much of a gambler. But that’s not my point. Now imagine it with 6* gems, you can’t do X% of a 6* gem. So it’s either gonna be an RNG chance at it, or nothing. It’s replaced with something else less valuable.

    My overarching point is this - a small minority complaining on the forum is not going to get rid of rifts, because they haven’t managed it the last 5 times, rifts work, I personally think they’re fun and I’m not alone. The forum twists perspective sometimes and makes it seem like 99% of the playerbase hate something, but it’s 99% of the 50 angriest players who hate it so much. Most will shrug and try their chance at a 6* gem, disappointed if they don’t but not furious. They understand that there is RNG in the game and it’s not just limited to crystals.
    So just because Kabam isn't listening or caring about what some of the community says, I should just lay back, shut up, and fall in line? Am I understanding this right? I don't care how many times they've done or how many times they will do it. As a player of the game and a member of the community, I am allowed to let them know what my stance is on it. I will continue to fight this every time they introduce it.

    Also, you seem incredibly supportive of RNG, even to a fault I'd say. Shoot why should Kabam stop here? Make the rewards RNG for Act 8.2. Maybe you'll get r4 mats? Maybe you'll get a 1-2 gem instead. Or maybe you'll get 2 T5bc. Who knows? Let's just go ahead and add it everywhere huh? EQ, maybe you'll get 6* shards or maybe you'll get 5* ones instead.
    You seem quite aggressive about this. I'd probably just remind you that we simply have different opinions about the game that we play, it's really not that deep for you to be this angry. If the way I've said my points has offended you please let me know and I can apologise for any misunderstanding, I definitely didn't intend any offence. But if you're just offended by me having a different opinion, then I'd probably just take a step back and think about why you're so angry about someone having a different point of view. You aren't right just because you feel strongly about something.

    No, you shouldn't just shut up, I think all feedback is really important which is why I try not to ever tell people to stop adding to conversations even if I disagree with them. My point is that rifts have been in the game for years and years and they keep coming back, if they were actually unpopular with the game at large enough to impact player retention and monthly usage stats then Kabam would change it, they haven't changed it and in fact consistently bring them back, so they are clearly successful. You don't need to twist my words and claim I'm tell you to not give feedback, it doesn't help the message you're trying to give to kabam. Maybe this is the year that the vocal minority persuade rifts not to come back, but something about the last 5 times being the exact same cycle of rift, a few complain and repeat makes me doubt it.

    Also, that's a hell of a strawman you've got there, claiming that because I defend RNG in one place I would like it everywhere. It's a disingenuous way to argue and anyone with an IQ above room temperature can see that I haven't said what you're exaggerating my points to be.

    If you'd like to address my points without strawmanning them into me saying you should shut up, or that I want the entire game to be RNG, then I'll be happy to respond, if not, I don't see much point continuing if you won't discuss it genuinely.
    I'm just trying to make sure that when this conversation is said and done, that my point was heard and understood. In the end I'm sure we'll still have different opinions, and that's fine. I'm not trying to persuade you to agree with my outlook. Clearly your outlook is different from mine.

    Yeah RNG is nearly everywhere else in this game. That is just the way the game is. Whether 6* crystals or catalysts, etc. And obviously those alone leave people with disappointment. Now the rewards themselves are going to be RNG based too? Just to continue feelings of disappointment when people can't get those rewards. That doesn't sit well with me, never has. The only thing that kept me from really getting fired up in the past was that we could aquire keys to at least target rewards we wanted a few times. Didn't like the design but the keys made it feel like it wasn't as big of a deal. Now having rewards waved in my face with little to no chances of aquiring it, whatsoever, really doesn't sit well with me.

    Looking at people simply doing it, doesn't feel like a fair way to judge if people enjoy something or not. As I've said, there's been plenty of other things I have disliked in this game, but completed them nonetheless, cause I have a roster I'm continuously trying to expand. Just like everyone else.

    And sorry, but the way things were worded, it gave me the impression that you think I shouldn't express my opinion, because Kabam is going to continue to do what they want anyways. I will always throw my opinion in. No matter if you, Kabam, or anyone else likes it or not. I'm not trying to strawman you with anything, I'm simply responding with the impression you have given me throughout your argument.

    Rewards already have RNG factored into them. I don't want what rewards I get to be RNG based as well. Plain and simple.
    Part of the rewards are RNG. Same way in 8.1 you get some guaranteed rewards and some RNG, you get some RNG rewards from the rifts, and you get some guaranteed from the candy store. And I'll make a point in advance here, yes the store isn't quite up to scratch and needs a TB and Paragon level - but, we are talking about the concept of RNG here, not specifically about this one event, but about the principle of RNG. If the store had a TB/Paragon gate, then you would have better guaranteed rewards, but some RNG still available and that would be ok.

    If you want to drag the conversation off and say the store is bad, then I'd agree it's not the best, but if we're giving feedback about the event for future, then it's not a valid point since the assumption is by next year when rifts come back, we will have better overall side event rewards - including TB and Paragon level rewards.

    But your point is this: "I don't want what rewards I get to be RNG based as well". In that case, ask to improve the guaranteed rewards from the store, don't ask for RNG to be taken out of it.

    My point about the data is that if you look at the forum as your gauge for how things are received, it can easily point in the wrong direction. If you only look at this front page for example there's about 5 threads negative about the side quest. But people complain more than they praise, that's proven. And if people complain more than they praise, then it means the number of complaints may not be representative of how people in general feel about it. My alliance for example, don't really mind rifts, they don't love that there's a chance for nothing, but they are getting on with it.

    Take this thread for example, one of my comments has 5 disagrees and 1 agree, wow I must be super wrong! But, that's 6 people, and if the people who are more likely to complain and feel strongly about it are on the forum, then you can't just say well, 5 out of 6 players hate this. I'm not saying categorically whether more hate the event than love it, or how many just tolerate it and play it. But my guess is that a small number of players hate it, come to the forum and post about it and disagree with any comments that don't agree with them, creating the environment that everyone hates rifts, whereas the vast, vast majority of the player base are at best indifferent - and indifferent people don't come to the forum and say how much they love or hate and event, or agree/disagree with comments. Indifferent people get on with the event and hope that they get a 6* gem, if not, ah well, because they're fine when they miss out on a good champion from a crystal too.

    I believe people claim to hate RNG because often you're on the wrong side of it, but really as @DNA3000 has pointed out, it has the adrenaline rush that tempts people to do it more. Maybe not many will admit it, but that's what has people hooked into the lottery, opening Cavs etc.
    Honestly, it just feels like you're arguing with me for the sake of just arguing. 8.1 rewards are GUARANTEED. What you get when you open them is RNG based. I'm not arguing that fact, and I'm not trying to change it. I want guaranteed rewards. I feel I have made that undeniably clear. You seem to be struggling to process that. Hopefully someone else here can make that more clear because I can't.

    I agree with you 100% about the candy store. I agree you can't solely use the forums for peoples opinions as whole, for the community, but you also can't just use data that says people are doing it. I've dont plenty of quests I didn't like. Something i think would be useful is those surveys kabam sends out from time to time. I haven't seen one in awhile. I think those should be sent out some more.

    I'm sure the rifts will return somewhere done the road, see you then for another argument!
    Again, you seem very aggressive so I don't see much point trying to put my side across. I'm not arguing for the sake of it, I just don't see the distinction you seem hellbent on between RNG rewards that are RNG before you get them and ones that are RNG after you get them - one player could get a 6* drax and another gets Herc from 8.1, someone gets candy, someone gets a gem from rifts. You're drawing a distinction to suit your argument without actually giving a reason why one is ok and one isn't other than "I don't like it".

    I'm not sure why you're quite so angry, but I'll let this one go here. I have my point of view and you have yours; it seems only one of us actually respects the others.
  • Charlie21540Charlie21540 Member Posts: 946 ★★★★

    jdeck59 said:

    jdeck59 said:

    People are getting so caught up in getting the "candy" they forgot what a side quest is.

    1. The candy store contains all the rewards one would normally get in a monthly side quest

    2. The side quest is one path a day/7 per week. You would normally need to do all four difficulties ~24 or so paths a week for the same rewards as the candy store.

    3. The RNG awards are among the best in the game. If you're lucky enough to get one then awesome, if not it is what it is. We are a long way from getting six star AGs as normal side quest rewards

    4. The alternative is going back to regular side quest, with multiple paths per week with zero chance of top tier rewards.


    It's like everyone is so caught up on not getting the AG that they forgot what a normal month is 🤦‍♂️

    1. The rewards for candy store is literally meaningless at this time. Its designed for same old cavalier.
    2. Normally need to do? Doing more difficultly means more rewards. Locking in one difficulty just means locking out lf rewards.
    3. Just check the feedbacks past rift rewards got. RNG is already in every crystal in the game. Bringing RNG to RNG is pointless.
    4. It atleast guarantees same rewards for the effort everyone puts! Effort is meaningless if everything is a lottery.

    Honestly can't believe there is anyone who can make worse argument than the ones you made.
    You realize the candy store is the exact same as every monthly side quest if you 100% all difficulties right?
    People will complain about the RNG of rifts every month, but still do them exactly the same as any other month. Kabam are not listening to the relatively small sample of the vocal minority who hate rifts, they are listening to the data of how many people are doing the rifts. Those of you who are complaining about rifts, put your candy where your mouth is and don’t do them if you hate them so much. That’s the only thing that’ll stop kabam doing them.

    If you complain about rifts, log off the forum grumbling and then go and do your rift, what message is that sending to Kabam?
    And honestly this is poor logic you got here @BitterSteel . So I don't like the way Kabam chooses to reward people so I should just simply not do it? This isn't the only side quest or just quest in general that I hate but still do it, because there are still rewards that I do want/need.

    I don't care if I walked away with 5 6* awakening gems. I'd still talk about how I hate the idea of the rewards people receive being based on RNG. Cause no matter what, there was the real chance i could have walked away with far far less. There will be people that walk away with far far less and it's not fair to them.

    So I'll continue to collect my daily candy. Grab the things here and there in the terrible candy store that I can use or need. Continue to bash this side quest, and there's nothing anyone can say that will change my opinion on this.
    A small minority complain every time rifts come up, if you think it’s going to change this time then there’s something that can be said for your persistence, if not for your effectiveness.

    I’m not saying you have a moral duty not to do it if you don’t like it. I’m saying that 30-50 people on the forum complaining and 100 people “agree reacting” to posts that complain clearly is not changing Kabam’s mind when they have hundreds of thousands of players actually doing the event.

    So it’s unfair that one player can come away with a 6* gem and others won’t, but it’s not unfair that one player can come away with a Hercules and one with drax?

    It’s just odd how people draw the distinction here to suit their complaints. There is a hell of a lot of non-RNG things in the game, BGs store, Glory store, Loyalty store, awakening gems that you choose who to use them on - it’s Rng for which class, but once I have a science I can use on whoever I want, that aspect isn’t RNG (and generic ones aren’t either). But there is also a hell of a lot of RNG, almost the entire champion acquisition system, classes of items/cats etc etc.

    There is also a whole heap of rewards that aren’t RNG in the candy store. Now, if your point was purely about the candy store I’d agree. It’s definitely time to have a TB and Paragon aspect to the store. That is the place that kabam are lagging behind on.

    Not to mention, that if all of you guys got your way and rifts and RNG was done away with for side quests, the highest value rewards would go down. Instead of 6* gems, we’d see T5B and 6* shards as the top prizes. Why? Because when things are RNG you can control how many get them. You want 10k 6* shards to go out to the average player, make the top prize 50k with a 20% chance. You don’t want RNG? Ok, now it’s a guaranteed 10k.

    You might think “yeah I’d prefer the guaranteed 10k” and yeah, personally I’d agree as I’m not that much of a gambler. But that’s not my point. Now imagine it with 6* gems, you can’t do X% of a 6* gem. So it’s either gonna be an RNG chance at it, or nothing. It’s replaced with something else less valuable.

    My overarching point is this - a small minority complaining on the forum is not going to get rid of rifts, because they haven’t managed it the last 5 times, rifts work, I personally think they’re fun and I’m not alone. The forum twists perspective sometimes and makes it seem like 99% of the playerbase hate something, but it’s 99% of the 50 angriest players who hate it so much. Most will shrug and try their chance at a 6* gem, disappointed if they don’t but not furious. They understand that there is RNG in the game and it’s not just limited to crystals.
    So just because Kabam isn't listening or caring about what some of the community says, I should just lay back, shut up, and fall in line? Am I understanding this right? I don't care how many times they've done or how many times they will do it. As a player of the game and a member of the community, I am allowed to let them know what my stance is on it. I will continue to fight this every time they introduce it.

    Also, you seem incredibly supportive of RNG, even to a fault I'd say. Shoot why should Kabam stop here? Make the rewards RNG for Act 8.2. Maybe you'll get r4 mats? Maybe you'll get a 1-2 gem instead. Or maybe you'll get 2 T5bc. Who knows? Let's just go ahead and add it everywhere huh? EQ, maybe you'll get 6* shards or maybe you'll get 5* ones instead.
    You seem quite aggressive about this. I'd probably just remind you that we simply have different opinions about the game that we play, it's really not that deep for you to be this angry. If the way I've said my points has offended you please let me know and I can apologise for any misunderstanding, I definitely didn't intend any offence. But if you're just offended by me having a different opinion, then I'd probably just take a step back and think about why you're so angry about someone having a different point of view. You aren't right just because you feel strongly about something.

    No, you shouldn't just shut up, I think all feedback is really important which is why I try not to ever tell people to stop adding to conversations even if I disagree with them. My point is that rifts have been in the game for years and years and they keep coming back, if they were actually unpopular with the game at large enough to impact player retention and monthly usage stats then Kabam would change it, they haven't changed it and in fact consistently bring them back, so they are clearly successful. You don't need to twist my words and claim I'm tell you to not give feedback, it doesn't help the message you're trying to give to kabam. Maybe this is the year that the vocal minority persuade rifts not to come back, but something about the last 5 times being the exact same cycle of rift, a few complain and repeat makes me doubt it.

    Also, that's a hell of a strawman you've got there, claiming that because I defend RNG in one place I would like it everywhere. It's a disingenuous way to argue and anyone with an IQ above room temperature can see that I haven't said what you're exaggerating my points to be.

    If you'd like to address my points without strawmanning them into me saying you should shut up, or that I want the entire game to be RNG, then I'll be happy to respond, if not, I don't see much point continuing if you won't discuss it genuinely.
    I'm just trying to make sure that when this conversation is said and done, that my point was heard and understood. In the end I'm sure we'll still have different opinions, and that's fine. I'm not trying to persuade you to agree with my outlook. Clearly your outlook is different from mine.

    Yeah RNG is nearly everywhere else in this game. That is just the way the game is. Whether 6* crystals or catalysts, etc. And obviously those alone leave people with disappointment. Now the rewards themselves are going to be RNG based too? Just to continue feelings of disappointment when people can't get those rewards. That doesn't sit well with me, never has. The only thing that kept me from really getting fired up in the past was that we could aquire keys to at least target rewards we wanted a few times. Didn't like the design but the keys made it feel like it wasn't as big of a deal. Now having rewards waved in my face with little to no chances of aquiring it, whatsoever, really doesn't sit well with me.

    Looking at people simply doing it, doesn't feel like a fair way to judge if people enjoy something or not. As I've said, there's been plenty of other things I have disliked in this game, but completed them nonetheless, cause I have a roster I'm continuously trying to expand. Just like everyone else.

    And sorry, but the way things were worded, it gave me the impression that you think I shouldn't express my opinion, because Kabam is going to continue to do what they want anyways. I will always throw my opinion in. No matter if you, Kabam, or anyone else likes it or not. I'm not trying to strawman you with anything, I'm simply responding with the impression you have given me throughout your argument.

    Rewards already have RNG factored into them. I don't want what rewards I get to be RNG based as well. Plain and simple.
    Part of the rewards are RNG. Same way in 8.1 you get some guaranteed rewards and some RNG, you get some RNG rewards from the rifts, and you get some guaranteed from the candy store. And I'll make a point in advance here, yes the store isn't quite up to scratch and needs a TB and Paragon level - but, we are talking about the concept of RNG here, not specifically about this one event, but about the principle of RNG. If the store had a TB/Paragon gate, then you would have better guaranteed rewards, but some RNG still available and that would be ok.

    If you want to drag the conversation off and say the store is bad, then I'd agree it's not the best, but if we're giving feedback about the event for future, then it's not a valid point since the assumption is by next year when rifts come back, we will have better overall side event rewards - including TB and Paragon level rewards.

    But your point is this: "I don't want what rewards I get to be RNG based as well". In that case, ask to improve the guaranteed rewards from the store, don't ask for RNG to be taken out of it.

    My point about the data is that if you look at the forum as your gauge for how things are received, it can easily point in the wrong direction. If you only look at this front page for example there's about 5 threads negative about the side quest. But people complain more than they praise, that's proven. And if people complain more than they praise, then it means the number of complaints may not be representative of how people in general feel about it. My alliance for example, don't really mind rifts, they don't love that there's a chance for nothing, but they are getting on with it.

    Take this thread for example, one of my comments has 5 disagrees and 1 agree, wow I must be super wrong! But, that's 6 people, and if the people who are more likely to complain and feel strongly about it are on the forum, then you can't just say well, 5 out of 6 players hate this. I'm not saying categorically whether more hate the event than love it, or how many just tolerate it and play it. But my guess is that a small number of players hate it, come to the forum and post about it and disagree with any comments that don't agree with them, creating the environment that everyone hates rifts, whereas the vast, vast majority of the player base are at best indifferent - and indifferent people don't come to the forum and say how much they love or hate and event, or agree/disagree with comments. Indifferent people get on with the event and hope that they get a 6* gem, if not, ah well, because they're fine when they miss out on a good champion from a crystal too.

    I believe people claim to hate RNG because often you're on the wrong side of it, but really as @DNA3000 has pointed out, it has the adrenaline rush that tempts people to do it more. Maybe not many will admit it, but that's what has people hooked into the lottery, opening Cavs etc.
    Honestly, it just feels like you're arguing with me for the sake of just arguing. 8.1 rewards are GUARANTEED. What you get when you open them is RNG based. I'm not arguing that fact, and I'm not trying to change it. I want guaranteed rewards. I feel I have made that undeniably clear. You seem to be struggling to process that. Hopefully someone else here can make that more clear because I can't.

    I agree with you 100% about the candy store. I agree you can't solely use the forums for peoples opinions as whole, for the community, but you also can't just use data that says people are doing it. I've dont plenty of quests I didn't like. Something i think would be useful is those surveys kabam sends out from time to time. I haven't seen one in awhile. I think those should be sent out some more.

    I'm sure the rifts will return somewhere done the road, see you then for another argument!
    Again, you seem very aggressive so I don't see much point trying to put my side across. I'm not arguing for the sake of it, I just don't see the distinction you seem hellbent on between RNG rewards that are RNG before you get them and ones that are RNG after you get them - one player could get a 6* drax and another gets Herc from 8.1, someone gets candy, someone gets a gem from rifts. You're drawing a distinction to suit your argument without actually giving a reason why one is ok and one isn't other than "I don't like it".

    I'm not sure why you're quite so angry, but I'll let this one go here. I have my point of view and you have yours; it seems only one of us actually respects the others.
    Because of how unbelievably dense you are. Difference between candy and 6* awakening gem are so far apart, on levels of a good reward. Like comparing a rusty broken down buick to a brand new Ferrari. But the difference between a drax and a herc is simply how good the champs are themselves. Both still a 6* champ. One is just better. But trying to argue that candy and a 6* gem is some sort of similiar comparison is just a garbage way of looking at things.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★

    jdeck59 said:

    jdeck59 said:

    People are getting so caught up in getting the "candy" they forgot what a side quest is.

    1. The candy store contains all the rewards one would normally get in a monthly side quest

    2. The side quest is one path a day/7 per week. You would normally need to do all four difficulties ~24 or so paths a week for the same rewards as the candy store.

    3. The RNG awards are among the best in the game. If you're lucky enough to get one then awesome, if not it is what it is. We are a long way from getting six star AGs as normal side quest rewards

    4. The alternative is going back to regular side quest, with multiple paths per week with zero chance of top tier rewards.


    It's like everyone is so caught up on not getting the AG that they forgot what a normal month is 🤦‍♂️

    1. The rewards for candy store is literally meaningless at this time. Its designed for same old cavalier.
    2. Normally need to do? Doing more difficultly means more rewards. Locking in one difficulty just means locking out lf rewards.
    3. Just check the feedbacks past rift rewards got. RNG is already in every crystal in the game. Bringing RNG to RNG is pointless.
    4. It atleast guarantees same rewards for the effort everyone puts! Effort is meaningless if everything is a lottery.

    Honestly can't believe there is anyone who can make worse argument than the ones you made.
    You realize the candy store is the exact same as every monthly side quest if you 100% all difficulties right?
    People will complain about the RNG of rifts every month, but still do them exactly the same as any other month. Kabam are not listening to the relatively small sample of the vocal minority who hate rifts, they are listening to the data of how many people are doing the rifts. Those of you who are complaining about rifts, put your candy where your mouth is and don’t do them if you hate them so much. That’s the only thing that’ll stop kabam doing them.

    If you complain about rifts, log off the forum grumbling and then go and do your rift, what message is that sending to Kabam?
    And honestly this is poor logic you got here @BitterSteel . So I don't like the way Kabam chooses to reward people so I should just simply not do it? This isn't the only side quest or just quest in general that I hate but still do it, because there are still rewards that I do want/need.

    I don't care if I walked away with 5 6* awakening gems. I'd still talk about how I hate the idea of the rewards people receive being based on RNG. Cause no matter what, there was the real chance i could have walked away with far far less. There will be people that walk away with far far less and it's not fair to them.

    So I'll continue to collect my daily candy. Grab the things here and there in the terrible candy store that I can use or need. Continue to bash this side quest, and there's nothing anyone can say that will change my opinion on this.
    A small minority complain every time rifts come up, if you think it’s going to change this time then there’s something that can be said for your persistence, if not for your effectiveness.

    I’m not saying you have a moral duty not to do it if you don’t like it. I’m saying that 30-50 people on the forum complaining and 100 people “agree reacting” to posts that complain clearly is not changing Kabam’s mind when they have hundreds of thousands of players actually doing the event.

    So it’s unfair that one player can come away with a 6* gem and others won’t, but it’s not unfair that one player can come away with a Hercules and one with drax?

    It’s just odd how people draw the distinction here to suit their complaints. There is a hell of a lot of non-RNG things in the game, BGs store, Glory store, Loyalty store, awakening gems that you choose who to use them on - it’s Rng for which class, but once I have a science I can use on whoever I want, that aspect isn’t RNG (and generic ones aren’t either). But there is also a hell of a lot of RNG, almost the entire champion acquisition system, classes of items/cats etc etc.

    There is also a whole heap of rewards that aren’t RNG in the candy store. Now, if your point was purely about the candy store I’d agree. It’s definitely time to have a TB and Paragon aspect to the store. That is the place that kabam are lagging behind on.

    Not to mention, that if all of you guys got your way and rifts and RNG was done away with for side quests, the highest value rewards would go down. Instead of 6* gems, we’d see T5B and 6* shards as the top prizes. Why? Because when things are RNG you can control how many get them. You want 10k 6* shards to go out to the average player, make the top prize 50k with a 20% chance. You don’t want RNG? Ok, now it’s a guaranteed 10k.

    You might think “yeah I’d prefer the guaranteed 10k” and yeah, personally I’d agree as I’m not that much of a gambler. But that’s not my point. Now imagine it with 6* gems, you can’t do X% of a 6* gem. So it’s either gonna be an RNG chance at it, or nothing. It’s replaced with something else less valuable.

    My overarching point is this - a small minority complaining on the forum is not going to get rid of rifts, because they haven’t managed it the last 5 times, rifts work, I personally think they’re fun and I’m not alone. The forum twists perspective sometimes and makes it seem like 99% of the playerbase hate something, but it’s 99% of the 50 angriest players who hate it so much. Most will shrug and try their chance at a 6* gem, disappointed if they don’t but not furious. They understand that there is RNG in the game and it’s not just limited to crystals.
    So just because Kabam isn't listening or caring about what some of the community says, I should just lay back, shut up, and fall in line? Am I understanding this right? I don't care how many times they've done or how many times they will do it. As a player of the game and a member of the community, I am allowed to let them know what my stance is on it. I will continue to fight this every time they introduce it.

    Also, you seem incredibly supportive of RNG, even to a fault I'd say. Shoot why should Kabam stop here? Make the rewards RNG for Act 8.2. Maybe you'll get r4 mats? Maybe you'll get a 1-2 gem instead. Or maybe you'll get 2 T5bc. Who knows? Let's just go ahead and add it everywhere huh? EQ, maybe you'll get 6* shards or maybe you'll get 5* ones instead.
    You seem quite aggressive about this. I'd probably just remind you that we simply have different opinions about the game that we play, it's really not that deep for you to be this angry. If the way I've said my points has offended you please let me know and I can apologise for any misunderstanding, I definitely didn't intend any offence. But if you're just offended by me having a different opinion, then I'd probably just take a step back and think about why you're so angry about someone having a different point of view. You aren't right just because you feel strongly about something.

    No, you shouldn't just shut up, I think all feedback is really important which is why I try not to ever tell people to stop adding to conversations even if I disagree with them. My point is that rifts have been in the game for years and years and they keep coming back, if they were actually unpopular with the game at large enough to impact player retention and monthly usage stats then Kabam would change it, they haven't changed it and in fact consistently bring them back, so they are clearly successful. You don't need to twist my words and claim I'm tell you to not give feedback, it doesn't help the message you're trying to give to kabam. Maybe this is the year that the vocal minority persuade rifts not to come back, but something about the last 5 times being the exact same cycle of rift, a few complain and repeat makes me doubt it.

    Also, that's a hell of a strawman you've got there, claiming that because I defend RNG in one place I would like it everywhere. It's a disingenuous way to argue and anyone with an IQ above room temperature can see that I haven't said what you're exaggerating my points to be.

    If you'd like to address my points without strawmanning them into me saying you should shut up, or that I want the entire game to be RNG, then I'll be happy to respond, if not, I don't see much point continuing if you won't discuss it genuinely.
    I'm just trying to make sure that when this conversation is said and done, that my point was heard and understood. In the end I'm sure we'll still have different opinions, and that's fine. I'm not trying to persuade you to agree with my outlook. Clearly your outlook is different from mine.

    Yeah RNG is nearly everywhere else in this game. That is just the way the game is. Whether 6* crystals or catalysts, etc. And obviously those alone leave people with disappointment. Now the rewards themselves are going to be RNG based too? Just to continue feelings of disappointment when people can't get those rewards. That doesn't sit well with me, never has. The only thing that kept me from really getting fired up in the past was that we could aquire keys to at least target rewards we wanted a few times. Didn't like the design but the keys made it feel like it wasn't as big of a deal. Now having rewards waved in my face with little to no chances of aquiring it, whatsoever, really doesn't sit well with me.

    Looking at people simply doing it, doesn't feel like a fair way to judge if people enjoy something or not. As I've said, there's been plenty of other things I have disliked in this game, but completed them nonetheless, cause I have a roster I'm continuously trying to expand. Just like everyone else.

    And sorry, but the way things were worded, it gave me the impression that you think I shouldn't express my opinion, because Kabam is going to continue to do what they want anyways. I will always throw my opinion in. No matter if you, Kabam, or anyone else likes it or not. I'm not trying to strawman you with anything, I'm simply responding with the impression you have given me throughout your argument.

    Rewards already have RNG factored into them. I don't want what rewards I get to be RNG based as well. Plain and simple.
    Part of the rewards are RNG. Same way in 8.1 you get some guaranteed rewards and some RNG, you get some RNG rewards from the rifts, and you get some guaranteed from the candy store. And I'll make a point in advance here, yes the store isn't quite up to scratch and needs a TB and Paragon level - but, we are talking about the concept of RNG here, not specifically about this one event, but about the principle of RNG. If the store had a TB/Paragon gate, then you would have better guaranteed rewards, but some RNG still available and that would be ok.

    If you want to drag the conversation off and say the store is bad, then I'd agree it's not the best, but if we're giving feedback about the event for future, then it's not a valid point since the assumption is by next year when rifts come back, we will have better overall side event rewards - including TB and Paragon level rewards.

    But your point is this: "I don't want what rewards I get to be RNG based as well". In that case, ask to improve the guaranteed rewards from the store, don't ask for RNG to be taken out of it.

    My point about the data is that if you look at the forum as your gauge for how things are received, it can easily point in the wrong direction. If you only look at this front page for example there's about 5 threads negative about the side quest. But people complain more than they praise, that's proven. And if people complain more than they praise, then it means the number of complaints may not be representative of how people in general feel about it. My alliance for example, don't really mind rifts, they don't love that there's a chance for nothing, but they are getting on with it.

    Take this thread for example, one of my comments has 5 disagrees and 1 agree, wow I must be super wrong! But, that's 6 people, and if the people who are more likely to complain and feel strongly about it are on the forum, then you can't just say well, 5 out of 6 players hate this. I'm not saying categorically whether more hate the event than love it, or how many just tolerate it and play it. But my guess is that a small number of players hate it, come to the forum and post about it and disagree with any comments that don't agree with them, creating the environment that everyone hates rifts, whereas the vast, vast majority of the player base are at best indifferent - and indifferent people don't come to the forum and say how much they love or hate and event, or agree/disagree with comments. Indifferent people get on with the event and hope that they get a 6* gem, if not, ah well, because they're fine when they miss out on a good champion from a crystal too.

    I believe people claim to hate RNG because often you're on the wrong side of it, but really as @DNA3000 has pointed out, it has the adrenaline rush that tempts people to do it more. Maybe not many will admit it, but that's what has people hooked into the lottery, opening Cavs etc.
    Honestly, it just feels like you're arguing with me for the sake of just arguing. 8.1 rewards are GUARANTEED. What you get when you open them is RNG based. I'm not arguing that fact, and I'm not trying to change it. I want guaranteed rewards. I feel I have made that undeniably clear. You seem to be struggling to process that. Hopefully someone else here can make that more clear because I can't.

    I agree with you 100% about the candy store. I agree you can't solely use the forums for peoples opinions as whole, for the community, but you also can't just use data that says people are doing it. I've dont plenty of quests I didn't like. Something i think would be useful is those surveys kabam sends out from time to time. I haven't seen one in awhile. I think those should be sent out some more.

    I'm sure the rifts will return somewhere done the road, see you then for another argument!
    Again, you seem very aggressive so I don't see much point trying to put my side across. I'm not arguing for the sake of it, I just don't see the distinction you seem hellbent on between RNG rewards that are RNG before you get them and ones that are RNG after you get them - one player could get a 6* drax and another gets Herc from 8.1, someone gets candy, someone gets a gem from rifts. You're drawing a distinction to suit your argument without actually giving a reason why one is ok and one isn't other than "I don't like it".

    I'm not sure why you're quite so angry, but I'll let this one go here. I have my point of view and you have yours; it seems only one of us actually respects the others.
    Because of how unbelievably dense you are. Difference between candy and 6* awakening gem are so far apart, on levels of a good reward. Like comparing a rusty broken down buick to a brand new Ferrari. But the difference between a drax and a herc is simply how good the champs are themselves. Both still a 6* champ. One is just better. But trying to argue that candy and a 6* gem is some sort of similiar comparison is just a garbage way of looking at things.
    Thanks for proving my point, weak distinctions to limp forwards on an argument you won’t win. No point arguing with angry people. If you were less insulting and took a breath I’d probably continue the conversation that i find interesting.
  • Qwerty12345Qwerty12345 Member Posts: 840 ★★★★
    I have no issues with rifts. so far I only got Candy... but its only 6 runs in. Maybe I'll be part of the 30% who won't get something.

    Given though that the game is OK with some people having more runs through than others just out of RNG... then I suppose the game should also be OK if some people say... run the gauntlet more than others.

    Oh wait... we aren't OK with that? That's odd... as I fail to see why one is OK and the other isn't. Either both should be OK, or both shouldn't.
  • DeaconDeacon Member Posts: 4,256 ★★★★★
    oh look .. more candy from today as well LOL smh. just when i said i'll give it a go again.
  • Jeal79Jeal79 Member Posts: 444 ★★★
    This is why I have Drax in my questing team for all content. He's not quite as good as Hercules... But only by a little bit. :D

    I'll definitely have some of whatever you are smoking.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★

    I have no issues with rifts. so far I only got Candy... but its only 6 runs in. Maybe I'll be part of the 30% who won't get something.

    Given though that the game is OK with some people having more runs through than others just out of RNG... then I suppose the game should also be OK if some people say... run the gauntlet more than others.

    Oh wait... we aren't OK with that? That's odd... as I fail to see why one is OK and the other isn't. Either both should be OK, or both shouldn't.

    98% of people will get something other than candy over the month.

    30% of people will get a 6* awakening gem.

    On average people will get 3.5 pulls that aren’t candy.

    Your point on the gauntlet isn’t really accurate I’m afraid. One is an exploit of a bug, one is a designed RNG side quest.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Member Posts: 2,405 ★★★★★
    SCP1504 said:

    stop complaining about people complaining, they ain't complaining to you

    This.

    I've also heard

    STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE COMPLAINTS IF THEY AREN'T STOPPING YOU TO COMPLAIN!
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