Sandbagging in BGS should be okay

Nameless_IW

sandbagging in BG? how exactly do you do that? please elaborate.

Ironman3000

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Nocko said:

The purpose of the game mode should be to pair similar level accounts and players
What you are doing is pairing yourself against someone you have a very significant roster advantage over to give yourself an advantage sizeable enough to easily climb the ladder and get rewards you would not be able to achieve otherwise

What this does is give you rewards you don’t deserve and perhaps more importantly, punishes a lesser player and denies them a fair opportunity to earn rewards

It should be taken away because you are not fairly earning these rewards. You are gaming the system to bully lesser rosters to make up for your inadequacies.

To paraphrase the great Alan Shore - “ I hated bullies on the playground when I was six, I tolerate them no better on a mobile video game in my thirties ”

Why does someone who can't beat someone with half a deck of 2* champs deserve to be rewarded? If you can't win you don't deserved to be given the rewards we're all fighting for.

What so many refuse to accept is that this is a competition and everyone, regardless of account size, was put in the same group. The goal of the competition is to rise through the ranks as quickly as possible to gain the best rewards. If someone can win more matches more quickly sandbagging then fighting 15k+ accounts every match then it doesn't make any sense to use a full deck.

Don't be mad at the sandbaggers, be mad at Kabam for the terrible matchmaking and for putting everyone in Bronze3 to start.

"The cashier left the register open. It's their fault I stole that money."

You just keep getting worse. 😂

How the hell did you get "steal money from a store" from my post?

Really bad analogy there, chief.

Angryneeson52

I really enjoy sandbagging lower ranked players with my deck which consists of 10 rank 4 6* and 5 rank 3 6* and the rest are 2* champs. I especially enjoy when I matchup the same folks more than once in a row and they end up forfeiting the match.

Why? Because it’s a game, and with no rules on how to get the edge on my opponent with respect to the deck manipulation it’s fair game. I just want quick rewards with little to no effort.

Worknprogress

DNA3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

This is a competitive game mode not arena. If you want to mindlessly grind, go do arena. Instead of going out of the way to give everyone a gold star for participation, maybe people should start being realistic with their expectations.

That's actually not true. Specifically, that Battlegrounds is a (singular) competitive game mode. BG is a game mode in the same sense that MCOC is a competitive game. Battlegrounds is actually *two* game modes that just happen to share a turnstile. The Victory track is a game mode that primarily rewards and incentivizes progress through the tracks. The Gladiator track is a much more purely competitive mode that incentivizes placement and ranking.

When I want to mindlessly grind, I grind arena. I don't think the suggestion I make above is intended to convert battlegrounds into a mindless grind, nor do I think it does that in actual fact. In fact, if BG was switched to a purely rating match system across all tracks, I would be fine with that but it would in fact turn it into a mindless grind for me. Because the most efficient way to progress in the Victory track given the current way it is implemented would be to deliberately lose to dump rating, something that you cannot police, and then win three in a row. Alliance war does not allow for this to the same degree because there are only twelve wars in a season. Even the worst abuses in war cannot compare to what can be done in Battlegrounds when I can easily do a hundred matches in a season.

If I am allowed to choose my own deck, and the game accounts for this, provided I do this fairly, I'm incentivized to try to win. But if the game ignores deck and uses a pure rating match system, then while this encourages people to win in the Gladiator track, it encourages people to lose then win in the Victory track, because in the Victory track you aren't rewarded for wins, you are rewarded for wins in a row. Three losses followed by three wins is vastly superior to three win/loss alternating combinations. So pure rating matching would compel me to engineer losses so that I could then maximize my chances of winning multiple victories in a row. It would be illogical to anything else.

That's what makes Victory track battlegrounds a fundamentally different game mode from Gladiator track battlegrounds. The incentives and reward conditions are completely different, and the nature of the competition is also completely different.

You can't eliminate "manipulation" in the Victory track you can only decide which kind you want. If you match based on deck, I can manipulate my deck without cost. If you match based on rating, I can manipulate my rating, also essentially without cost (at least in the Victory track). And if you match based on prestige, like I see some people suggesting, then I will simply stop competing on my main, because my roster is too strong for my own good. Instead I will switch to my Cavalier alt, where I get to put the same experienced brain and same skill set into the driver's seat of an account with 9.5k prestige instead of 13.5k prestige (I tested this and immediately went six wins in a row). All of this because the Victory track is not the same kind of competition as the Gladiator track. And because I can do as many matches as I want.

How would losing in VT help you with matchmaking with what I suggested? Your "rating" in VT is basically just whatever tier of the track you're in at the time. You can't drop tiers so losing 3 matches in Gold 3 just gets you matched with more people in Gold 3. The only place tanking helps you is in GC and wins in a row don't really matter as much.

Moosetiptronic

Genuine question to @DNA3000 and a few others, how is putting in a few 2*, different from me stacking my deck with low prestige r3 6* and very tough 5/65 or 4/55 or r16* defenders, to face cav players? Unduped r3 overseer is great for this by the way.

I could put in my heavy hitting r4s and r3s, especially herc, nimrod and apoc. But then I get matched with paragons with stacked decks.

Pick some tricky 5/65s, r1s and 2/35 6* and I get matched with late Cavs and early TBs.

It's no fun in silver 1, being matched with people, with 10+ r4s every other match, if I pick my highest PI deck.

The issue is, that kabam need to work out how they want matchmaking to work.

Because otherwise, I'm going to be joining those who are already maxing a bunch of nightmare 4*s, running only 4* and 3/45 decks and stomping on new accounts anyway.

The issue is not the players. It's the game.

Worknprogress

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Nocko said:

The purpose of the game mode should be to pair similar level accounts and players
What you are doing is pairing yourself against someone you have a very significant roster advantage over to give yourself an advantage sizeable enough to easily climb the ladder and get rewards you would not be able to achieve otherwise

What this does is give you rewards you don’t deserve and perhaps more importantly, punishes a lesser player and denies them a fair opportunity to earn rewards

It should be taken away because you are not fairly earning these rewards. You are gaming the system to bully lesser rosters to make up for your inadequacies.

To paraphrase the great Alan Shore - “ I hated bullies on the playground when I was six, I tolerate them no better on a mobile video game in my thirties ”

Why does someone who can't beat someone with half a deck of 2* champs deserve to be rewarded? If you can't win you don't deserved to be given the rewards we're all fighting for.

What so many refuse to accept is that this is a competition and everyone, regardless of account size, was put in the same group. The goal of the competition is to rise through the ranks as quickly as possible to gain the best rewards. If someone can win more matches more quickly sandbagging then fighting 15k+ accounts every match then it doesn't make any sense to use a full deck.

Don't be mad at the sandbaggers, be mad at Kabam for the terrible matchmaking and for putting everyone in Bronze3 to start.

"The cashier left the register open. It's their fault I stole that money."

You just keep getting worse. 😂

How the hell did you get "steal money from a store" from my post?

Really bad analogy there, chief.

You're blaming Kabam for you being scummy.

Mauled

Rudolph_Raindeer said:

I dont get why sandbagging in battlegrounds is not okay. There are not rules against it.
I am very far from the most skilled player, but I do spend many hours each day (+5) to improve my account and I spend 100s of usd on this game every month.

This is how I approach the game and make up for lack of skills. Spending money (and time) to keep up. Why is this not legit? Why should this be taken away from me? I dont get it…

BTW. I am not high in tiers despite sandbagging. Only just made it to Plat.

I have absolutely no problem with you fielding your 1* but it should have zero impact on who you match. End of.

Sandbagging to avoid matching players is almost on a par with modding IMO.

DNA3000

Moosetiptronic said:

Genuine question to @DNA3000 and a few others, how is putting in a few 2*, different from me stacking my deck with low prestige r3 6* and very tough 5/65 or 4/55 or r16* defenders, to face cav players? Unduped r3 overseer is great for this by the way.

Because you don’t expect to use them. Placing champs in your deck specifically to make your deck weaker, when you never intend to ever use those champions so your actual deck strength ignores those champs, is the difference.

I should add that even in the arena when you use so-called sandbag teams you actually have to use all three champs. If you actually had to use those 2* champs consistently I might have a different opinion, but the mechanics of the random draw make it statistically likely you won’t need to do so the majority of the time. That makes them not a genuine tactical choice, but rather a mechanical exploit (little E).

Ironman3000

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Nocko said:

The purpose of the game mode should be to pair similar level accounts and players
What you are doing is pairing yourself against someone you have a very significant roster advantage over to give yourself an advantage sizeable enough to easily climb the ladder and get rewards you would not be able to achieve otherwise

What this does is give you rewards you don’t deserve and perhaps more importantly, punishes a lesser player and denies them a fair opportunity to earn rewards

It should be taken away because you are not fairly earning these rewards. You are gaming the system to bully lesser rosters to make up for your inadequacies.

To paraphrase the great Alan Shore - “ I hated bullies on the playground when I was six, I tolerate them no better on a mobile video game in my thirties ”

Why does someone who can't beat someone with half a deck of 2* champs deserve to be rewarded? If you can't win you don't deserved to be given the rewards we're all fighting for.

What so many refuse to accept is that this is a competition and everyone, regardless of account size, was put in the same group. The goal of the competition is to rise through the ranks as quickly as possible to gain the best rewards. If someone can win more matches more quickly sandbagging then fighting 15k+ accounts every match then it doesn't make any sense to use a full deck.

Don't be mad at the sandbaggers, be mad at Kabam for the terrible matchmaking and for putting everyone in Bronze3 to start.

"The cashier left the register open. It's their fault I stole that money."

You just keep getting worse. 😂

How the hell did you get "steal money from a store" from my post?

Really bad analogy there, chief.

You're blaming Kabam for you being scummy.

How is using a completely legal strategy in a video game like stealing money from a store?

Adevati

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Nocko said:

The purpose of the game mode should be to pair similar level accounts and players
What you are doing is pairing yourself against someone you have a very significant roster advantage over to give yourself an advantage sizeable enough to easily climb the ladder and get rewards you would not be able to achieve otherwise

What this does is give you rewards you don’t deserve and perhaps more importantly, punishes a lesser player and denies them a fair opportunity to earn rewards

It should be taken away because you are not fairly earning these rewards. You are gaming the system to bully lesser rosters to make up for your inadequacies.

To paraphrase the great Alan Shore - “ I hated bullies on the playground when I was six, I tolerate them no better on a mobile video game in my thirties ”

Why does someone who can't beat someone with half a deck of 2* champs deserve to be rewarded? If you can't win you don't deserved to be given the rewards we're all fighting for.

What so many refuse to accept is that this is a competition and everyone, regardless of account size, was put in the same group. The goal of the competition is to rise through the ranks as quickly as possible to gain the best rewards. If someone can win more matches more quickly sandbagging then fighting 15k+ accounts every match then it doesn't make any sense to use a full deck.

Don't be mad at the sandbaggers, be mad at Kabam for the terrible matchmaking and for putting everyone in Bronze3 to start.

"The cashier left the register open. It's their fault I stole that money."

You just keep getting worse. 😂

How the hell did you get "steal money from a store" from my post?

Really bad analogy there, chief.

You're blaming Kabam for you being scummy.

How is using a completely legal strategy in a video game like stealing money from a store?

It’s a bad analogy. Doesn’t absolve you from the consensus that sandbagging is unethical and scummy. Kabam has explicitly stated this is not something they condone and have (and will continue to) change the game to prevent this.

There’s legality and there’s ethics. If you’re fine being unethical; then that’s that. That’s your conscience and the hill you choose to be on. But stop with the mental gymnastics of trying to justify your actions.

Ironman3000

Adevati said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Nocko said:

The purpose of the game mode should be to pair similar level accounts and players
What you are doing is pairing yourself against someone you have a very significant roster advantage over to give yourself an advantage sizeable enough to easily climb the ladder and get rewards you would not be able to achieve otherwise

What this does is give you rewards you don’t deserve and perhaps more importantly, punishes a lesser player and denies them a fair opportunity to earn rewards

It should be taken away because you are not fairly earning these rewards. You are gaming the system to bully lesser rosters to make up for your inadequacies.

To paraphrase the great Alan Shore - “ I hated bullies on the playground when I was six, I tolerate them no better on a mobile video game in my thirties ”

Why does someone who can't beat someone with half a deck of 2* champs deserve to be rewarded? If you can't win you don't deserved to be given the rewards we're all fighting for.

What so many refuse to accept is that this is a competition and everyone, regardless of account size, was put in the same group. The goal of the competition is to rise through the ranks as quickly as possible to gain the best rewards. If someone can win more matches more quickly sandbagging then fighting 15k+ accounts every match then it doesn't make any sense to use a full deck.

Don't be mad at the sandbaggers, be mad at Kabam for the terrible matchmaking and for putting everyone in Bronze3 to start.

"The cashier left the register open. It's their fault I stole that money."

You just keep getting worse. 😂

How the hell did you get "steal money from a store" from my post?

Really bad analogy there, chief.

You're blaming Kabam for you being scummy.

How is using a completely legal strategy in a video game like stealing money from a store?

It’s a bad analogy. Doesn’t absolve you from the consensus that sandbagging is unethical and scummy. Kabam has explicitly stated this is not something they condone and have (and will continue to) change the game to prevent this.

There’s legality and there’s ethics. If you’re fine being unethical; then that’s that. That’s your conscience and the hill you choose to be on. But stop with the mental gymnastics of trying to justify your actions.

I don't find it unethical to match someone in my same tier. If sandbagging allowed you to fight people in a lower tier on the VT then you'd 100% have an argument. However, as we're all in the same tier and fighting for the same rewards, I don't see anything wrong with building a deck that gives me the best chance to win a round.

Is it unethical to bench my r4 Omega Red in favor of my R3 Domino? If not, where's the line?

And so we're clear, I ran a 4*/5* deck till Gold and have been using my best deck since and am in Plat 1 now so I never even sandbagged. I just don't like people trying to decide which strategy is "ethical" and which isn't.

GinjabredMonsta

Ironman3000 said:

Adevati said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Nocko said:

The purpose of the game mode should be to pair similar level accounts and players
What you are doing is pairing yourself against someone you have a very significant roster advantage over to give yourself an advantage sizeable enough to easily climb the ladder and get rewards you would not be able to achieve otherwise

What this does is give you rewards you don’t deserve and perhaps more importantly, punishes a lesser player and denies them a fair opportunity to earn rewards

It should be taken away because you are not fairly earning these rewards. You are gaming the system to bully lesser rosters to make up for your inadequacies.

To paraphrase the great Alan Shore - “ I hated bullies on the playground when I was six, I tolerate them no better on a mobile video game in my thirties ”

Why does someone who can't beat someone with half a deck of 2* champs deserve to be rewarded? If you can't win you don't deserved to be given the rewards we're all fighting for.

What so many refuse to accept is that this is a competition and everyone, regardless of account size, was put in the same group. The goal of the competition is to rise through the ranks as quickly as possible to gain the best rewards. If someone can win more matches more quickly sandbagging then fighting 15k+ accounts every match then it doesn't make any sense to use a full deck.

Don't be mad at the sandbaggers, be mad at Kabam for the terrible matchmaking and for putting everyone in Bronze3 to start.

"The cashier left the register open. It's their fault I stole that money."

You just keep getting worse. 😂

How the hell did you get "steal money from a store" from my post?

Really bad analogy there, chief.

You're blaming Kabam for you being scummy.

How is using a completely legal strategy in a video game like stealing money from a store?

It’s a bad analogy. Doesn’t absolve you from the consensus that sandbagging is unethical and scummy. Kabam has explicitly stated this is not something they condone and have (and will continue to) change the game to prevent this.

There’s legality and there’s ethics. If you’re fine being unethical; then that’s that. That’s your conscience and the hill you choose to be on. But stop with the mental gymnastics of trying to justify your actions.

I don't find it unethical to match someone in my same tier. If sandbagging allowed you to fight people in a lower tier on the VT then you'd 100% have an argument. However, as we're all in the same tier and fighting for the same rewards, I don't see anything wrong with building a deck that gives me the best chance to win a round.

Is it unethical to bench my r4 Omega Red in favor of my R3 Domino? If not, where's the line?

And so we're clear, I ran a 4*/5* deck till Gold and have been using my best deck since and am in Plat 1 now so I never even sandbagged. I just don't like people trying to decide which strategy is "ethical" and which isn't.

Sandbagging is never ethical

Adevati

Ironman3000 said:

Adevati said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Nocko said:

The purpose of the game mode should be to pair similar level accounts and players
What you are doing is pairing yourself against someone you have a very significant roster advantage over to give yourself an advantage sizeable enough to easily climb the ladder and get rewards you would not be able to achieve otherwise

What this does is give you rewards you don’t deserve and perhaps more importantly, punishes a lesser player and denies them a fair opportunity to earn rewards

It should be taken away because you are not fairly earning these rewards. You are gaming the system to bully lesser rosters to make up for your inadequacies.

To paraphrase the great Alan Shore - “ I hated bullies on the playground when I was six, I tolerate them no better on a mobile video game in my thirties ”

Why does someone who can't beat someone with half a deck of 2* champs deserve to be rewarded? If you can't win you don't deserved to be given the rewards we're all fighting for.

What so many refuse to accept is that this is a competition and everyone, regardless of account size, was put in the same group. The goal of the competition is to rise through the ranks as quickly as possible to gain the best rewards. If someone can win more matches more quickly sandbagging then fighting 15k+ accounts every match then it doesn't make any sense to use a full deck.

Don't be mad at the sandbaggers, be mad at Kabam for the terrible matchmaking and for putting everyone in Bronze3 to start.

"The cashier left the register open. It's their fault I stole that money."

You just keep getting worse. 😂

How the hell did you get "steal money from a store" from my post?

Really bad analogy there, chief.

You're blaming Kabam for you being scummy.

How is using a completely legal strategy in a video game like stealing money from a store?

It’s a bad analogy. Doesn’t absolve you from the consensus that sandbagging is unethical and scummy. Kabam has explicitly stated this is not something they condone and have (and will continue to) change the game to prevent this.

There’s legality and there’s ethics. If you’re fine being unethical; then that’s that. That’s your conscience and the hill you choose to be on. But stop with the mental gymnastics of trying to justify your actions.

I don't find it unethical to match someone in my same tier. If sandbagging allowed you to fight people in a lower tier on the VT then you'd 100% have an argument. However, as we're all in the same tier and fighting for the same rewards, I don't see anything wrong with building a deck that gives me the best chance to win a round.

Is it unethical to bench my r4 Omega Red in favor of my R3 Domino? If not, where's the line?

And so we're clear, I ran a 4*/5* deck till Gold and have been using my best deck since and am in Plat 1 now so I never even sandbagged. I just don't like people trying to decide which strategy is "ethical" and which isn't.

More mental gymnastics. You are in the same tier; but NOT the same competitive level. Kabam has decided to arrange the ladder based on tier AND roster strength. Imagine it as 4 parallel ladders in the same tier based on roster strength. You are manipulating this to jump to a lower parallel to get easier wins. Simply because using your best roster results in less wins. That action is unethical—you refuse to face rosters similar to yours. I can’t help you acknowledge that; you are outright refusing. The community disagrees with your method. That is quite easy to see.

Enjoy it while it lasts; Kabam WILL work to fix this. This is against their vision for the game mode. They want UC/Cav players to progress; not get constantly beat down by TB/Paragon players manipulating the matchmaking.

ntclpz

Rudolph_Raindeer said:

Well this is my approach to getting the rewards. Others are more skilled and they use another approach. Each to his own. Why interfere? Sandbagging has been a thing in arena since forever.

Add on: the last 12 matches I have lost, so I really dont see why people are SO MUCH in disadvantsge when I sandbag 🤨

Funny how u talk about arena like ur playing players that are almost live

Ayden_noah1

Adevati said:

Ironman3000 said:

Adevati said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Nocko said:

The purpose of the game mode should be to pair similar level accounts and players
What you are doing is pairing yourself against someone you have a very significant roster advantage over to give yourself an advantage sizeable enough to easily climb the ladder and get rewards you would not be able to achieve otherwise

What this does is give you rewards you don’t deserve and perhaps more importantly, punishes a lesser player and denies them a fair opportunity to earn rewards

It should be taken away because you are not fairly earning these rewards. You are gaming the system to bully lesser rosters to make up for your inadequacies.

To paraphrase the great Alan Shore - “ I hated bullies on the playground when I was six, I tolerate them no better on a mobile video game in my thirties ”

Why does someone who can't beat someone with half a deck of 2* champs deserve to be rewarded? If you can't win you don't deserved to be given the rewards we're all fighting for.

What so many refuse to accept is that this is a competition and everyone, regardless of account size, was put in the same group. The goal of the competition is to rise through the ranks as quickly as possible to gain the best rewards. If someone can win more matches more quickly sandbagging then fighting 15k+ accounts every match then it doesn't make any sense to use a full deck.

Don't be mad at the sandbaggers, be mad at Kabam for the terrible matchmaking and for putting everyone in Bronze3 to start.

"The cashier left the register open. It's their fault I stole that money."

You just keep getting worse. 😂

How the hell did you get "steal money from a store" from my post?

Really bad analogy there, chief.

You're blaming Kabam for you being scummy.

How is using a completely legal strategy in a video game like stealing money from a store?

It’s a bad analogy. Doesn’t absolve you from the consensus that sandbagging is unethical and scummy. Kabam has explicitly stated this is not something they condone and have (and will continue to) change the game to prevent this.

There’s legality and there’s ethics. If you’re fine being unethical; then that’s that. That’s your conscience and the hill you choose to be on. But stop with the mental gymnastics of trying to justify your actions.

I don't find it unethical to match someone in my same tier. If sandbagging allowed you to fight people in a lower tier on the VT then you'd 100% have an argument. However, as we're all in the same tier and fighting for the same rewards, I don't see anything wrong with building a deck that gives me the best chance to win a round.

Is it unethical to bench my r4 Omega Red in favor of my R3 Domino? If not, where's the line?

And so we're clear, I ran a 4*/5* deck till Gold and have been using my best deck since and am in Plat 1 now so I never even sandbagged. I just don't like people trying to decide which strategy is "ethical" and which isn't.

More mental gymnastics. You are in the same tier; but NOT the same competitive level. Kabam has decided to arrange the ladder based on tier AND roster strength. Imagine it as 4 parallel ladders in the same tier based on roster strength. You are manipulating this to jump to a lower parallel to get easier wins. Simply because using your best roster results in less wins. That action is unethical—you refuse to face rosters similar to yours. I can’t help you acknowledge that; you are outright refusing. The community disagrees with your method. That is quite easy to see.

Enjoy it while it lasts; Kabam WILL work to fix this. This is against their vision for the game mode. They want UC/Cav players to progress; not get constantly beat down by TB/Paragon players manipulating the matchmaking.

This cuter than BG seems like a broken war system from the past that players didn’t like. Why would BG match players in the same tier whether it be bronze, gold, platinum or higher based on the strength of o prestige of their roster. Shouldn’t all gold 1 tier fight all other gold 1 tier. If I’m in gold one as a uncollected player and have to fight only uncollected player to move up to the next tier this would be amazing for the uncollected player. How is it fair that a paragon player would be fighting only paragon players in gold 1 to move up. There should be only one ladder(pool of layers) so that sandbagging would only hurt those that do it. If every gold 1 players fights only gold 1 then it’s fair game. Do what you want with your deck and let the best player win.

I seen so many players complain about BG matches against stacked roster but if your in their league (tier) then it’s expected that you will have to face them sooner or later. Seems like a lot of players just want to face competition at their level but still earn all the same rewards. Wasn’t this the issue we had in the past with war. Where a low prestige alliance would be in the top bracket facing only the other low prestige alliances, but getting the top rewards. The hoop alliances were outrage and they had every right to be pissed. So what’s the difference now for BG. You want the same rewards so everyone should face everyone in their bracket.

Some players are saying we should all have the same deck to make it a fair fight. Why would Kabam or any players who spent time and/or money on their roster agreed to this. What’s the use of investing in my roster when I can’t take advantage of it. Theirs other games modes I can use them but why not this game mode. I level up my roster to take advantage of my skill set. Having the ability to chose between all the champs in the game for BG is a bad idea. It doesn’t reward the players for their efforts They put into get my roster to where it is, it actually punishes them which makes no sense. I’m just TB so I don’t have a stacked roster but I’m happy with my roster since it suits my play style. BG is not perfect but it a fun new mode with good rewards for my effort.

willrun4adonut

Ayden_noah1 said:

This cuter than BG seems like a broken war system from the past that players didn’t like. Why would BG match players in the same tier whether it be bronze, gold, platinum or higher based on the strength of o prestige of their roster. Shouldn’t all gold 1 tier fight all other gold 1 tier. If I’m in gold one as a uncollected player and have to fight only uncollected player to move up to the next tier this would be amazing for the uncollected player. How is it fair that a paragon player would be fighting only paragon players in gold 1 to move up. There should be only one ladder(pool of layers) so that sandbagging would only hurt those that do it. If every gold 1 players fights only gold 1 then it’s fair game. Do what you want with your deck and let the best player win.

Even after reading everyone's comments from this thread and others, I still don't understand why this isn't the way it's being implemented.

JessieS

Rudolph_Raindeer said:

I dont get why sandbagging in battlegrounds is not okay. There are not rules against it.
I am very far from the most skilled player, but I do spend many hours each day (+5) to improve my account and I spend 100s of usd on this game every month.

This is how I approach the game and make up for lack of skills. Spending money (and time) to keep up. Why is this not legit? Why should this be taken away from me? I dont get it…

BTW. I am not high in tiers despite sandbagging. Only just made it to Plat.

Spending a few bucks on a game each month to have fun is not that bad but when you spend hundreds and over five whole hours everyday you are near dangerous line of gambling addiction . I urge you to rethink your methods and just play for fun . There is no hurry and no finishing line . Go cold Turkey . Spend absolutely no money and spend no more the half an hour or at most an hour a day . Learn how to play for fun and if you feel the need to spend such a huge amount of money again and so much time just delete the game

Ironman3000

Adevati said:

Ironman3000 said:

Adevati said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Nocko said:

The purpose of the game mode should be to pair similar level accounts and players
What you are doing is pairing yourself against someone you have a very significant roster advantage over to give yourself an advantage sizeable enough to easily climb the ladder and get rewards you would not be able to achieve otherwise

What this does is give you rewards you don’t deserve and perhaps more importantly, punishes a lesser player and denies them a fair opportunity to earn rewards

It should be taken away because you are not fairly earning these rewards. You are gaming the system to bully lesser rosters to make up for your inadequacies.

To paraphrase the great Alan Shore - “ I hated bullies on the playground when I was six, I tolerate them no better on a mobile video game in my thirties ”

Why does someone who can't beat someone with half a deck of 2* champs deserve to be rewarded? If you can't win you don't deserved to be given the rewards we're all fighting for.

What so many refuse to accept is that this is a competition and everyone, regardless of account size, was put in the same group. The goal of the competition is to rise through the ranks as quickly as possible to gain the best rewards. If someone can win more matches more quickly sandbagging then fighting 15k+ accounts every match then it doesn't make any sense to use a full deck.

Don't be mad at the sandbaggers, be mad at Kabam for the terrible matchmaking and for putting everyone in Bronze3 to start.

"The cashier left the register open. It's their fault I stole that money."

You just keep getting worse. 😂

How the hell did you get "steal money from a store" from my post?

Really bad analogy there, chief.

You're blaming Kabam for you being scummy.

How is using a completely legal strategy in a video game like stealing money from a store?

It’s a bad analogy. Doesn’t absolve you from the consensus that sandbagging is unethical and scummy. Kabam has explicitly stated this is not something they condone and have (and will continue to) change the game to prevent this.

There’s legality and there’s ethics. If you’re fine being unethical; then that’s that. That’s your conscience and the hill you choose to be on. But stop with the mental gymnastics of trying to justify your actions.

I don't find it unethical to match someone in my same tier. If sandbagging allowed you to fight people in a lower tier on the VT then you'd 100% have an argument. However, as we're all in the same tier and fighting for the same rewards, I don't see anything wrong with building a deck that gives me the best chance to win a round.

Is it unethical to bench my r4 Omega Red in favor of my R3 Domino? If not, where's the line?

And so we're clear, I ran a 4*/5* deck till Gold and have been using my best deck since and am in Plat 1 now so I never even sandbagged. I just don't like people trying to decide which strategy is "ethical" and which isn't.

More mental gymnastics. You are in the same tier; but NOT the same competitive level. Kabam has decided to arrange the ladder based on tier AND roster strength. Imagine it as 4 parallel ladders in the same tier based on roster strength. You are manipulating this to jump to a lower parallel to get easier wins. Simply because using your best roster results in less wins. That action is unethical—you refuse to face rosters similar to yours. I can’t help you acknowledge that; you are outright refusing. The community disagrees with your method. That is quite easy to see.

Enjoy it while it lasts; Kabam WILL work to fix this. This is against their vision for the game mode. They want UC/Cav players to progress; not get constantly beat down by TB/Paragon players manipulating the matchmaking.

The mental gymnastics that some are doing to not accept that everyone in the same tier is in fact in the same tier as everyone else. There are not hidden ladders or groups. It's one big group fighting for the exact same rewards.

Monk1

Ironman3000 said:

Adevati said:

Ironman3000 said:

Adevati said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Nocko said:

The purpose of the game mode should be to pair similar level accounts and players
What you are doing is pairing yourself against someone you have a very significant roster advantage over to give yourself an advantage sizeable enough to easily climb the ladder and get rewards you would not be able to achieve otherwise

What this does is give you rewards you don’t deserve and perhaps more importantly, punishes a lesser player and denies them a fair opportunity to earn rewards

It should be taken away because you are not fairly earning these rewards. You are gaming the system to bully lesser rosters to make up for your inadequacies.

To paraphrase the great Alan Shore - “ I hated bullies on the playground when I was six, I tolerate them no better on a mobile video game in my thirties ”

Why does someone who can't beat someone with half a deck of 2* champs deserve to be rewarded? If you can't win you don't deserved to be given the rewards we're all fighting for.

What so many refuse to accept is that this is a competition and everyone, regardless of account size, was put in the same group. The goal of the competition is to rise through the ranks as quickly as possible to gain the best rewards. If someone can win more matches more quickly sandbagging then fighting 15k+ accounts every match then it doesn't make any sense to use a full deck.

Don't be mad at the sandbaggers, be mad at Kabam for the terrible matchmaking and for putting everyone in Bronze3 to start.

"The cashier left the register open. It's their fault I stole that money."

You just keep getting worse. 😂

How the hell did you get "steal money from a store" from my post?

Really bad analogy there, chief.

You're blaming Kabam for you being scummy.

How is using a completely legal strategy in a video game like stealing money from a store?

It’s a bad analogy. Doesn’t absolve you from the consensus that sandbagging is unethical and scummy. Kabam has explicitly stated this is not something they condone and have (and will continue to) change the game to prevent this.

There’s legality and there’s ethics. If you’re fine being unethical; then that’s that. That’s your conscience and the hill you choose to be on. But stop with the mental gymnastics of trying to justify your actions.

I don't find it unethical to match someone in my same tier. If sandbagging allowed you to fight people in a lower tier on the VT then you'd 100% have an argument. However, as we're all in the same tier and fighting for the same rewards, I don't see anything wrong with building a deck that gives me the best chance to win a round.

Is it unethical to bench my r4 Omega Red in favor of my R3 Domino? If not, where's the line?

And so we're clear, I ran a 4*/5* deck till Gold and have been using my best deck since and am in Plat 1 now so I never even sandbagged. I just don't like people trying to decide which strategy is "ethical" and which isn't.

More mental gymnastics. You are in the same tier; but NOT the same competitive level. Kabam has decided to arrange the ladder based on tier AND roster strength. Imagine it as 4 parallel ladders in the same tier based on roster strength. You are manipulating this to jump to a lower parallel to get easier wins. Simply because using your best roster results in less wins. That action is unethical—you refuse to face rosters similar to yours. I can’t help you acknowledge that; you are outright refusing. The community disagrees with your method. That is quite easy to see.

Enjoy it while it lasts; Kabam WILL work to fix this. This is against their vision for the game mode. They want UC/Cav players to progress; not get constantly beat down by TB/Paragon players manipulating the matchmaking.

The mental gymnastics that some are doing to not accept that everyone in the same tier is in fact in the same tier as everyone else. There are not hidden ladders or groups. It's one big group fighting for the exact same rewards.

Exactly right. Everyone is same pot, all same rewards. Whoever is better should/will win

Greekhit

Currently BGs matchmaking is as fair prestige AW matchmaking was.
As long as you are in the same bracket, gold 1 f.e., you should have the same odds to be matched with anyone in that bracket.
That means that a 8k prestige Uncollected player should have same chances to match whether a similar strength account or a 15k prestige Paragon account.
Sooner or later the strong accounts would climb to Gladiator Circuit faster and weaker accounts would get more similar matches and skilled players would climb to GC after as it should happen.
Totally random matchmaking is as fair as it can get.
Anything else is just favouring, depending on the parameter it is counting on, different members of the player base.
That’s why we see the sandbagging phenomenon.
Current matchmaking is favouring second accounts mainly.
Experienced players with low rosters.
Example of how broken current matchmaking is:
My main Paragon account (3.2mil 15k prestige) is still at gold brackets (and will probably need shields to make it to GC), while my alt freshly Cavalier account (~500k 8k prestige) is already at Gladiator Circuit enjoying more Trophie token rewards way more easy, by beating mainly inexperienced Cavalier players and very rarely another alt account!
This shouldn’t happen.
It’s wrong and Kabam should change it.
Random matchmaking is the solution to this.
Everyone knows that, and whoever is supporting any other matchmaking than that, just wants to benefit by a fraud matchmaking 😠

Adevati

Ironman3000 said:

Adevati said:

Ironman3000 said:

Adevati said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Nocko said:

The purpose of the game mode should be to pair similar level accounts and players
What you are doing is pairing yourself against someone you have a very significant roster advantage over to give yourself an advantage sizeable enough to easily climb the ladder and get rewards you would not be able to achieve otherwise

What this does is give you rewards you don’t deserve and perhaps more importantly, punishes a lesser player and denies them a fair opportunity to earn rewards

It should be taken away because you are not fairly earning these rewards. You are gaming the system to bully lesser rosters to make up for your inadequacies.

To paraphrase the great Alan Shore - “ I hated bullies on the playground when I was six, I tolerate them no better on a mobile video game in my thirties ”

Why does someone who can't beat someone with half a deck of 2* champs deserve to be rewarded? If you can't win you don't deserved to be given the rewards we're all fighting for.

What so many refuse to accept is that this is a competition and everyone, regardless of account size, was put in the same group. The goal of the competition is to rise through the ranks as quickly as possible to gain the best rewards. If someone can win more matches more quickly sandbagging then fighting 15k+ accounts every match then it doesn't make any sense to use a full deck.

Don't be mad at the sandbaggers, be mad at Kabam for the terrible matchmaking and for putting everyone in Bronze3 to start.

"The cashier left the register open. It's their fault I stole that money."

You just keep getting worse. 😂

How the hell did you get "steal money from a store" from my post?

Really bad analogy there, chief.

You're blaming Kabam for you being scummy.

How is using a completely legal strategy in a video game like stealing money from a store?

It’s a bad analogy. Doesn’t absolve you from the consensus that sandbagging is unethical and scummy. Kabam has explicitly stated this is not something they condone and have (and will continue to) change the game to prevent this.

There’s legality and there’s ethics. If you’re fine being unethical; then that’s that. That’s your conscience and the hill you choose to be on. But stop with the mental gymnastics of trying to justify your actions.

I don't find it unethical to match someone in my same tier. If sandbagging allowed you to fight people in a lower tier on the VT then you'd 100% have an argument. However, as we're all in the same tier and fighting for the same rewards, I don't see anything wrong with building a deck that gives me the best chance to win a round.

Is it unethical to bench my r4 Omega Red in favor of my R3 Domino? If not, where's the line?

And so we're clear, I ran a 4*/5* deck till Gold and have been using my best deck since and am in Plat 1 now so I never even sandbagged. I just don't like people trying to decide which strategy is "ethical" and which isn't.

More mental gymnastics. You are in the same tier; but NOT the same competitive level. Kabam has decided to arrange the ladder based on tier AND roster strength. Imagine it as 4 parallel ladders in the same tier based on roster strength. You are manipulating this to jump to a lower parallel to get easier wins. Simply because using your best roster results in less wins. That action is unethical—you refuse to face rosters similar to yours. I can’t help you acknowledge that; you are outright refusing. The community disagrees with your method. That is quite easy to see.

Enjoy it while it lasts; Kabam WILL work to fix this. This is against their vision for the game mode. They want UC/Cav players to progress; not get constantly beat down by TB/Paragon players manipulating the matchmaking.

The mental gymnastics that some are doing to not accept that everyone in the same tier is in fact in the same tier as everyone else. There are not hidden ladders or groups. It's one big group fighting for the exact same rewards.

Absolutely false.

The biggest reason this is false is based on the fact that you are manipulating your deck to get easier matchups.

If there was just one tier and one ladder and everyone matches with everyone; adding 1 or 2 star champs would have zero impact on your matches.

ChiliDog

If you put up the same rewards for everyone, then everyone should be in the same pool based on tier only.

The problem is making it where you have to win so many in a row to move up while in the Victory track up until platinum. Just make the lower tiers, number of wins. People will move up and out.

Anyone in the gladiator track should start in the victory gold tier the next season.

Adevati

willrun4adonut said:

Ayden_noah1 said:

This cuter than BG seems like a broken war system from the past that players didn’t like. Why would BG match players in the same tier whether it be bronze, gold, platinum or higher based on the strength of o prestige of their roster. Shouldn’t all gold 1 tier fight all other gold 1 tier. If I’m in gold one as a uncollected player and have to fight only uncollected player to move up to the next tier this would be amazing for the uncollected player. How is it fair that a paragon player would be fighting only paragon players in gold 1 to move up. There should be only one ladder(pool of layers) so that sandbagging would only hurt those that do it. If every gold 1 players fights only gold 1 then it’s fair game. Do what you want with your deck and let the best player win.

Even after reading everyone's comments from this thread and others, I still don't understand why this isn't the way it's being implemented.

The reasoning is that Kabam wants everyone to be able to progress up the ladder. Obviously, the more people trying to climb the ladder the more opportunity for people to buy marks and such.

Think about it like a golf tournament where handicapping is used frequently. All golfers earn a handicap which is their adjustment to their score. This way, a much larger pool of participants can compete; which greatly increases the rewards due to a much larger entry fee pool. A person that normally shoots 85 can win by shooting an 80 over a player that normally shoots a 75 but scores a 76.

If this golf tournament refused handicaps and just said lowest score wins, regardless of pro or amateur or handicap, the pool would be much much smaller. No golfers that normally shoot above 80 will participate because they know they have no chance at winning—they are simply out classed.

Likewise, in BGs, if all players in a tier are matched without any consideration, UC and Cav players will shy away from the mode due to constantly being matched against TB and Paragon players. They know their roster is less developed than most of their opponents. Thus, Kabam is attempting to match based on tier AND roster strength to allow fair matchups for everyone to be able to progress.

Personally, I lean towards a true ladder and ignore roster/progression level. But only because I’ve seen endless complaints about matchmaking in many different games because of algorithms trying to find “fair” matchups. Of course, even with tier based matching, you’ll have tankers that drop down just for easy wins

GroundedWisdom

Monk1 said:

Ironman3000 said:

Adevati said:

Ironman3000 said:

Adevati said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Nocko said:

The purpose of the game mode should be to pair similar level accounts and players
What you are doing is pairing yourself against someone you have a very significant roster advantage over to give yourself an advantage sizeable enough to easily climb the ladder and get rewards you would not be able to achieve otherwise

What this does is give you rewards you don’t deserve and perhaps more importantly, punishes a lesser player and denies them a fair opportunity to earn rewards

It should be taken away because you are not fairly earning these rewards. You are gaming the system to bully lesser rosters to make up for your inadequacies.

To paraphrase the great Alan Shore - “ I hated bullies on the playground when I was six, I tolerate them no better on a mobile video game in my thirties ”

Why does someone who can't beat someone with half a deck of 2* champs deserve to be rewarded? If you can't win you don't deserved to be given the rewards we're all fighting for.

What so many refuse to accept is that this is a competition and everyone, regardless of account size, was put in the same group. The goal of the competition is to rise through the ranks as quickly as possible to gain the best rewards. If someone can win more matches more quickly sandbagging then fighting 15k+ accounts every match then it doesn't make any sense to use a full deck.

Don't be mad at the sandbaggers, be mad at Kabam for the terrible matchmaking and for putting everyone in Bronze3 to start.

"The cashier left the register open. It's their fault I stole that money."

You just keep getting worse. 😂

How the hell did you get "steal money from a store" from my post?

Really bad analogy there, chief.

You're blaming Kabam for you being scummy.

How is using a completely legal strategy in a video game like stealing money from a store?

It’s a bad analogy. Doesn’t absolve you from the consensus that sandbagging is unethical and scummy. Kabam has explicitly stated this is not something they condone and have (and will continue to) change the game to prevent this.

There’s legality and there’s ethics. If you’re fine being unethical; then that’s that. That’s your conscience and the hill you choose to be on. But stop with the mental gymnastics of trying to justify your actions.

I don't find it unethical to match someone in my same tier. If sandbagging allowed you to fight people in a lower tier on the VT then you'd 100% have an argument. However, as we're all in the same tier and fighting for the same rewards, I don't see anything wrong with building a deck that gives me the best chance to win a round.

Is it unethical to bench my r4 Omega Red in favor of my R3 Domino? If not, where's the line?

And so we're clear, I ran a 4*/5* deck till Gold and have been using my best deck since and am in Plat 1 now so I never even sandbagged. I just don't like people trying to decide which strategy is "ethical" and which isn't.

More mental gymnastics. You are in the same tier; but NOT the same competitive level. Kabam has decided to arrange the ladder based on tier AND roster strength. Imagine it as 4 parallel ladders in the same tier based on roster strength. You are manipulating this to jump to a lower parallel to get easier wins. Simply because using your best roster results in less wins. That action is unethical—you refuse to face rosters similar to yours. I can’t help you acknowledge that; you are outright refusing. The community disagrees with your method. That is quite easy to see.

Enjoy it while it lasts; Kabam WILL work to fix this. This is against their vision for the game mode. They want UC/Cav players to progress; not get constantly beat down by TB/Paragon players manipulating the matchmaking.

The mental gymnastics that some are doing to not accept that everyone in the same tier is in fact in the same tier as everyone else. There are not hidden ladders or groups. It's one big group fighting for the exact same rewards.

Exactly right. Everyone is same pot, all same rewards. Whoever is better should/will win

I see. So because people are in the same arena, they should be able to cheat the system and peck off lower Players. Tell me, where's the skill and honor in picking on lower Rosters? If they're so superior in skill, why aren't they taking on their own peers and winning that way? Sounds like a poor excuse to rise on the backs of people who aren't equipped to put up a fair fight.

ChiliDog

Comment deleted. Already posted above my thoughts on a fix.

_Reef

I still beat people like you all day, you all have very limited counters when you have 10 1*s so idk, do your thang.

Monk1

GroundedWisdom said:

Monk1 said:

Ironman3000 said:

Adevati said:

Ironman3000 said:

Adevati said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Ironman3000 said:

Nocko said:

The purpose of the game mode should be to pair similar level accounts and players
What you are doing is pairing yourself against someone you have a very significant roster advantage over to give yourself an advantage sizeable enough to easily climb the ladder and get rewards you would not be able to achieve otherwise

What this does is give you rewards you don’t deserve and perhaps more importantly, punishes a lesser player and denies them a fair opportunity to earn rewards

It should be taken away because you are not fairly earning these rewards. You are gaming the system to bully lesser rosters to make up for your inadequacies.

To paraphrase the great Alan Shore - “ I hated bullies on the playground when I was six, I tolerate them no better on a mobile video game in my thirties ”

Why does someone who can't beat someone with half a deck of 2* champs deserve to be rewarded? If you can't win you don't deserved to be given the rewards we're all fighting for.

What so many refuse to accept is that this is a competition and everyone, regardless of account size, was put in the same group. The goal of the competition is to rise through the ranks as quickly as possible to gain the best rewards. If someone can win more matches more quickly sandbagging then fighting 15k+ accounts every match then it doesn't make any sense to use a full deck.

Don't be mad at the sandbaggers, be mad at Kabam for the terrible matchmaking and for putting everyone in Bronze3 to start.

"The cashier left the register open. It's their fault I stole that money."

You just keep getting worse. 😂

How the hell did you get "steal money from a store" from my post?

Really bad analogy there, chief.

You're blaming Kabam for you being scummy.

How is using a completely legal strategy in a video game like stealing money from a store?

It’s a bad analogy. Doesn’t absolve you from the consensus that sandbagging is unethical and scummy. Kabam has explicitly stated this is not something they condone and have (and will continue to) change the game to prevent this.

There’s legality and there’s ethics. If you’re fine being unethical; then that’s that. That’s your conscience and the hill you choose to be on. But stop with the mental gymnastics of trying to justify your actions.

I don't find it unethical to match someone in my same tier. If sandbagging allowed you to fight people in a lower tier on the VT then you'd 100% have an argument. However, as we're all in the same tier and fighting for the same rewards, I don't see anything wrong with building a deck that gives me the best chance to win a round.

Is it unethical to bench my r4 Omega Red in favor of my R3 Domino? If not, where's the line?

And so we're clear, I ran a 4*/5* deck till Gold and have been using my best deck since and am in Plat 1 now so I never even sandbagged. I just don't like people trying to decide which strategy is "ethical" and which isn't.

More mental gymnastics. You are in the same tier; but NOT the same competitive level. Kabam has decided to arrange the ladder based on tier AND roster strength. Imagine it as 4 parallel ladders in the same tier based on roster strength. You are manipulating this to jump to a lower parallel to get easier wins. Simply because using your best roster results in less wins. That action is unethical—you refuse to face rosters similar to yours. I can’t help you acknowledge that; you are outright refusing. The community disagrees with your method. That is quite easy to see.

Enjoy it while it lasts; Kabam WILL work to fix this. This is against their vision for the game mode. They want UC/Cav players to progress; not get constantly beat down by TB/Paragon players manipulating the matchmaking.

The mental gymnastics that some are doing to not accept that everyone in the same tier is in fact in the same tier as everyone else. There are not hidden ladders or groups. It's one big group fighting for the exact same rewards.

Exactly right. Everyone is same pot, all same rewards. Whoever is better should/will win

I see. So because people are in the same arena, they should be able to cheat the system and peck off lower Players. Tell me, where's the skill and honor in picking on lower Rosters? If they're so superior in skill, why aren't they taking on their own peers and winning that way? Sounds like a poor excuse to rise on the backs of people who aren't equipped to put up a fair fight.

Let’s be clear - No one is ‘cheating’. Over dramatising stuff a bit.

People can do what they want.

I’m happy to use all My top Champs and just crack on. Some people have 10+ r4 and choose to stack a deck With all 4*, let them carry on if they prefer that approach.

Until we see some realistic
Segmentation (levels, start position and rewards) then this type of discussion this will continue to exist.

Allowing people with smaller roster (with have all been there) to only match similar rosters in VT and then changing it in glad circuit and then match 15.9k rosters.. just delays their complaints and makes them
Fodder in the circuit.

No. I believe we should of had transparency from day one in matching algorithm. This is war matching all over again