BG question to Paragons

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Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    mgj0630 said:

    I'm going to choose to rise above throwing mud, but I can't ignore the fact that you are making a conscious effort to avoid the whole, and instead focus solely on the "fair match" aspect.

    So to that end, are you willing to say right now, that if Kabam creates progression based brackets, and reduces the rewards a Thronebreaker has access to, every step of the way, no matter how significant those reductions are, that you will never make a single comment complaining about them?

    The Rewards have never been my argument, and I've already indicated I'm not out for any final result. I think you'll find I rarely say much about Rewards, other than the occasional comment that they're out of proportion to what something is. It's been quite some time since I've made such an assertion. They've been pretty on-point IMO.
    As for whether I would take issue or not, that entirely depends on whether they're appropriate for where a Player is at. Too much is too much, to little is too little. My views in this discussion are not at all self-serving. I play the VT, get a few thousand Shards, and am happy with that.
    Once again, people are fixated on the Rewards, which I understand is a part of a competitive game mode. No question. My concerns are about looking at all sides. The gaming experience for everyone. Not one or the other. Unfortunately these discussions only have one view at times.
    What I have no time for is another mode that becomes just like War. Overpowered Allies "taking it easy" with lower Ratings, vast mismatches at lower ends that are justified on here with War Rating being similar, Alliances not even caring if they play or not because their Alliances are a culmination of Players from Para to UC, and the Rewards aren't worth a month of effort, and the only people satisfied are the ones claiming a stake in the entire game mode. That's not competition. That's justified ignorance.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:



    Under the proposed suggestion, Paragon would receive 3 Tokens for a Win, TB 2, and down. That's literally the same scenario you're describing, only it benefits the other side. I find this to be a hypocritical suggestion.
    People should be rewarded for the progress they make in the game mode. Not for which they feel entitled based on all other areas of the game. In that model, some Players will have to win 3 times as many Matches to advance. That's ridiculous. I respect your input, but I disagree with that idea.

    You did not say Paragons and TBs were progressing faster, implying they don't deserve to (whether they do or not is an open question). You said UCs would be stuck unable to progress, when the overwhelming evidence is that a) they are not stuck now, and b) depleting their competition even more could not possibly cause them to progress slower.
    In theory, I don't believe in a system that allows the highest to progress faster than the lowest. That kind of arc doesn't allow anyone to move up.
    Specific to this, you can't accelerate the highest demographic without slowing down the lower ones.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    I'm not advocating anything, really. I've outlined my concerns. I've also addressed the idea that the Players in this Season have not earned their Rewards. That much is indisputable because they quite literally have.
    I'm not pushing for Prestige being the factor. I'm outlining the lack of other perspectives in the whole Rewards argument, and in essence, people aren't being prohibited from earning the same in the current system. No one is preventing them from winning their own Matches.
    I'm not disputing that something needs to be revisited in terms of the Rewards, as well as the ability to push above the Prestige. I just have very specific concerns, and I've outlined them about as specifically as I can.
  • DrZolaDrZola Member Posts: 9,122 ★★★★★
    edited February 2023
    If there isn’t a change to matchmaking, it would at least be useful to be able to see someone’s match profile, either by displaying wins/losses against progression, title, account rating, prestige or otherwise. There’s a comparable set of data kept on everyone’s profile already (although it’s usage is pretty much zilch):



    This match profile could change as the season progresses and would reflect the *difficulty* of a Summoner’s BG matches. Then the players—and the team—could gauge whether there actually is an advantage embedded in the matchmaking system.

    Who knows? Maybe it could even be useful in adding something like quality points at seasons end based on something like “difficulty of schedule” in BGs.

    Dr. Zola
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Member Posts: 1,527 ★★★★★
    @DNA3000 do the people with most nose hairs get an advantage? If so sign me up!! 😂
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    Who was disputing it? I was present for the Prestige issue with War. I know the effects. Nor was I arguing that it's a perfect system. That doesn't mean there aren't other sides to the current situation I can't point out. I've clarified numerous times I'm not pushing for that to be a solution. I'm simply being a voice to other aspects that are being ignored.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    I've already suggested that idea. If the current system were to stay, you could regulate the Rewards based on Titles, for example. Appropriate them based on where a Player is at.
    I'm also not opposed to your suggestion. Whether 5 is reasonable or more, is up for debate, but something along the lines of balancing the starting point.
    I think there are a number of suggestions that might be workable.
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  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Member Posts: 1,955 ★★★★★
    Arguing for the sake or arguing is not a good argument.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    You're talking about giving more Tokens for fighting specific Titles. Not what I suggested at all. I suggested adjusting the payouts slightly, based on what Title people have.
    If you can point out where I raged about anyone getting Rewards, I'd be happy to see it. I made the point that in the current system, if people were so skilled, advanced, and deserving of the best Rewards, they should be winning their own Matches now.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    I'm pretty clear, and I've been forward with the fact that I'm open to suggestions.
    When you're altering the amount of Tokens earned, you're not just affecting the Rewards. You're affecting the ability for Players to advance. With quite a difference. Even in the instances where, for example, a Cav came up against a Para, one side would gain more Tokens for the Win, and that would cause further dissention.
    Altering the Rewards is addressing the issue directly. A Cav would be able to earn less than a Para, overall. What amount that would be is open for debate, but the Top Payout would be appropriated to the Title. That would also concur with encouraging people to advance, the more they advance, the more they could earn in BGs.
    As for my latter comment, I was being slightly retaliative in tone, sure. I still think it's a logical point that there's some onus on the part of people losing their own Matches.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Member Posts: 1,527 ★★★★★

    I'm pretty clear, and I've been forward with the fact that I'm open to suggestions.
    When you're altering the amount of Tokens earned, you're not just affecting the Rewards. You're affecting the ability for Players to advance. With quite a difference. Even in the instances where, for example, a Cav came up against a Para, one side would gain more Tokens for the Win, and that would cause further dissention.
    Altering the Rewards is addressing the issue directly. A Cav would be able to earn less than a Para, overall. What amount that would be is open for debate, but the Top Payout would be appropriated to the Title. That would also concur with encouraging people to advance, the more they advance, the more they could earn in BGs.
    As for my latter comment, I was being slightly retaliative in tone, sure. I still think it's a logical point that there's some onus on the part of people losing their own Matches.

    That’s true!! If cavalier wins, they gain 3 tokens and if paragon wins, they gain 1 token. Are you saying the cavalier doesn’t deserve more tokens for a win against a tough opponent?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    I'm pretty clear, and I've been forward with the fact that I'm open to suggestions.
    When you're altering the amount of Tokens earned, you're not just affecting the Rewards. You're affecting the ability for Players to advance. With quite a difference. Even in the instances where, for example, a Cav came up against a Para, one side would gain more Tokens for the Win, and that would cause further dissention.
    Altering the Rewards is addressing the issue directly. A Cav would be able to earn less than a Para, overall. What amount that would be is open for debate, but the Top Payout would be appropriated to the Title. That would also concur with encouraging people to advance, the more they advance, the more they could earn in BGs.
    As for my latter comment, I was being slightly retaliative in tone, sure. I still think it's a logical point that there's some onus on the part of people losing their own Matches.

    That’s true!! If cavalier wins, they gain 3 tokens and if paragon wins, they gain 1 token. Are you saying the cavalier doesn’t deserve more tokens for a win against a tough opponent?
    I said I'm about fairness on all ends. That's also a wolf in sheep's clothing. I'm a little more astute than that.
  • DraconicDraconic Member Posts: 1
    Bro this type of thinking is wrong. You are just looking from your perspective. If prestige matchmaking is not there then a person who started playing mcoc 2-3 months ago will never be able to reach gladiator circuit, it will be impossible even. So, why should they keep playing mcoc if they can't enjoy the best content of the game.
    If prestige matchmaking is not there then the rich will get richer and low level account will not be able to grow faster. Do you want mcoc to be ruled by a high prestige players only. A game shouldn't work that way. It should be enjoyable to all.

    This decision/change is good for mcoc community and it's growth.

    PS: I am not a low prestige player.
  • mgj0630mgj0630 Member Posts: 1,096 ★★★★
    I guess story content, monthly EQ and side quests, AQ and AW don't give rewards to help people progress anymore.

    Although perhaps we need to have a separate dialog about why someone who started playing MCoC 2-3 months ago can't complete Thronebreaker EQ too.
  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Member Posts: 1,955 ★★★★★
    mgj0630 said:

    I guess story content, monthly EQ and side quests, AQ and AW don't give rewards to help people progress anymore.

    Although perhaps we need to have a separate dialog about why someone who started playing MCoC 2-3 months ago can't complete Thronebreaker EQ too.

    It's the same sad argument every time they release end-game content. Mid and Low players have soooo much that they can do to progress their accounts.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    BGs isn't just for End-Game Players.
  • GreekhitGreekhit Member Posts: 2,820 ★★★★★
    Draconic said:

    Bro this type of thinking is wrong. You are just looking from your perspective. If prestige matchmaking is not there then a person who started playing mcoc 2-3 months ago will never be able to reach gladiator circuit, it will be impossible even. So, why should they keep playing mcoc if they can't enjoy the best content of the game.
    If prestige matchmaking is not there then the rich will get richer and low level account will not be able to grow faster. Do you want mcoc to be ruled by a high prestige players only. A game shouldn't work that way. It should be enjoyable to all.

    This decision/change is good for mcoc community and it's growth.

    PS: I am not a low prestige player.

    Why the heck a person who started playing mcoc 2-3 months ago should be able to reach Gladiator Circuit?
    This is entitlement at it’s finest 😂
    We already have 6-7k prestige UC accounts that got all VT and GC ranked rewards.
    Meanwhile ~40% of Paragon accounts that did Battlegrounds, were left at some VT tier, losing these rewards, because they just had high prestige.
    And that’s a pretty conservative estimation.
    That percentage might be higher.
    Why these new accounts, should have access to the higher rewards the game has to offer, without having an account that can compete for them and match the competition?


  • _Pez__Pez_ Member Posts: 274 ★★★
    Whilst I'd like random match making, and for the better accounts (combination of account strength and skill) to progress quicker than new accounts, it doesn't really matter too much. If smaller accounts do have an easier ride and progress quicker, the extra rewards they potentially get only really benefit them if they invest them in their accounts, their prestige will likely grow and they get matched against tougher people next time, so it's only short term gains really.

    Even so, feel random matchmaking within your current tier is only fair way to go. But I still enjoyed this season, got to gladiator circuit last day and I actually enjoyed electric defense, got to try some new champs.
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