BG question to Paragons

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  • ChatterofforumsChatterofforums Member Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★

    BG is not the NFL. It's not an elite club. It's a game mode that includes a large number of Players.

    Your the one who was using the NFL analogy and now that it was thrown back at you as your analogy well apart horribly, now your saying this isn't the NFL.

    Lmao, if your going to blindly fight something, at least stay true to your own arguments that you introduced.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,583 ★★★★★

    BG is not the NFL. It's not an elite club. It's a game mode that includes a large number of Players.

    Your the one who was using the NFL analogy and now that it was thrown back at you as your analogy well apart horribly, now your saying this isn't the NFL.

    Lmao, if your going to blindly fight something, at least stay true to your own arguments that you introduced.
    Someone used a sports reference, and I also explained why I don't care for them. In my example, I pointed out that the game is not a professional sport. It's important to read the whole comment when considering a rebuttal.
  • ChatterofforumsChatterofforums Member Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    K00shMaan said:


    For the record, I have no desire to be facing these weaker players, what I want is fairness. Since we are all fighting for same rewards we should all have the same path to the rewards, if they want to avoid massive lopsided matches, I'm fine with that but be fair about it, and don't reward weaker players with easy path to getting same rewards as far stronger players. Simply do what sports do (using your analogy) and keep the different types of players in different leagues only going against themselves while going for lower rewards.

    You've openly disagreed with me the whole time when this quote has been my stance the entire time. I just want a system that acknowledges the fact that my competition maybe more difficult to compete against than someone else, and when that is the case, I'm appropriately better rewarded even if my Wins and Losses suggest that I'm doing worse.

    Your assuming I'm disagreeing with you but please show me when I have ever said I want to beat up on UC? I never have, if that's your assumption don't blame me for you having the wrong assumption.

    What I've said for months now (even before most recent changes) is that if we are all fighting for same rewards then everyone in that bracket should be fair game. Ihoweber I've said numerous times that if they changed the bracket structure to where there were lower rewards for those facing lower accounts then that is perfectly fine with me, however , we know most lower players won't be okay with getting less rewards.
  • PikokPikok Member Posts: 156 ★★
    2,5m rating here. Bg matchmaking is random and we have to believe that. It must be truth :). In my opinion bg should be allowed for everybody. And right now accounts under 2mil rating are not playing it. Kabam. Please do something with it. From this season accounts under 2mil are not even playing in bronze 3. I did not saw them once. Bg is a great content but right now only paragons enjoy it. Roght now strugling little bit vs those 3,5 mil accounts but that is ok because only those are playing it and matchmaking is random so…. Please remove such restrictions and allow also smaller account to play in bg
  • Denslo500Denslo500 Member Posts: 905 ★★★
    I didn't say the NFL allowed high school teams to play.
    They do allow poorer teams to play richer teams.
    If the poor teams have enough talent, they have a chance to compete for the Superbowl.

    Being Paragon doesn't put us in a different league of talent, just different resources.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,583 ★★★★★
    There's more than different Resources. The game has built-in mechanics that inhibit your ability to inflict Damage, and increase Damage inflicted, the lower you go.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,583 ★★★★★
    That makes a huge difference in a piece of content that is timed, and the metrics include Health lost and Damage inflicted.
  • ChatterofforumsChatterofforums Member Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    edited January 2023
    Denslo500 said:

    I didn't say the NFL allowed high school teams to play.
    They do allow poorer teams to play richer teams.
    If the poor teams have enough talent, they have a chance to compete for the Superbowl.

    Being Paragon doesn't put us in a different league of talent, just different resources.

    Your analogy is terrible and fyi, all NFL teams get same salary cap, so again your analogy makes absolutely no sense.

    And again, all NFL teams only play NFL teams during the season. These weaker players are only playing other weaker players all victory track and then advancing to the "playoffs" (GC) without ever beating a strong player or team. I really don't think you watch football and should layoff the football analogies because yours are just bad.
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  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Member Posts: 1,958 ★★★★★
    Denslo500 said:

    I didn't say the NFL allowed high school teams to play.
    They do allow poorer teams to play richer teams.
    If the poor teams have enough talent, they have a chance to compete for the Superbowl.

    Being Paragon doesn't put us in a different league of talent, just different resources.

    Wrong.

    The difference between a top Paragon and a new UC or CAV is huge. Poor teams are still ma up of professional athletes and there is a salary cap so your "point" makes even less sense.
  • PikokPikok Member Posts: 156 ★★
    It is super scary to do carina chalenges v3 and r5 6star. It is suicide if you care about bg
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Member Posts: 1,553 ★★★★★

    There's more than different Resources. The game has built-in mechanics that inhibit your ability to inflict Damage, and increase Damage inflicted, the lower you go.

    Weren’t you for the difficulty increase in the monthly event quest to keep up with the power creep in people’s rosters? And now you are saying the same uncollected people should not face others in the same tiers because their ability to inflict damage and to inhibit inflicted damage are lower? Who would have thought that looking at your posts in the event quest feedback thread.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,583 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    There's more than different Resources. The game has built-in mechanics that inhibit your ability to inflict Damage, and increase Damage inflicted, the lower you go.

    Weren’t you for the difficulty increase in the monthly event quest to keep up with the power creep in people’s rosters? And now you are saying the same uncollected people should not face others in the same tiers because their ability to inflict damage and to inhibit inflicted damage are lower? Who would have thought that looking at your posts in the event quest feedback thread.
    You're talking about a different subject entirely, but I also agreed that this month was overshot. What I said was it has to be an increase that's reasonable. I also said here that there has to be reason. There is a limit to where people are at. It's not very useful to discuss both topics in comparison to each other without the full viewpoint, and the context. What you're talking about here isn't a little increase. Otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it.
  • GreekhitGreekhit Member Posts: 2,820 ★★★★★
    Pikok said:

    I dont get it how somebody could defend matchmaking system. Imagine Chess tournament. First round. Everybody who get 10 points will progress to round 2. Win is +1. Loss is -1. In round 2 10000 dolars are guaranted. In round 1 500elo players will only play with same rankings. Similar for 1000 and 2000elo. Grandmasters only plays with other grandmasters. In round 2 matchmaking is fair -> random. 500elo players will be slaughtered and will not win a single game. But they are happy bcos 10k prize. Some grandmasters will not advance to round 2 and will get nothing. This is how bgs is working today.

    We don’t need to imagine or make any analogue tbh.
    We had the best example to compare in game recently:
    AW Prestige Matchmaking
    This is the exact same situation:
    Small accounts overachieving while bigger accounts placing lower than they should be.
    People will realize what’s happening right now at BGs sooner or later and Kabam will eventually change matchmaking to random, like it happened at AW and like it should be at the very start.
    If someone had checked last season’s rankings, he would have noticed how many UC 200k or less accounts were at URU tiers, while so many Paragon accounts left stuck fighting each other at some VT tier.
    How fair is that for these players, that have spend thousands of hours playing the game or thousands of $, see UC accounts of few hours of play, placing higher and getting ranked rewards, while they don’t?
    And I will give my own experience again:
    My alt 600k Cav account cruised through VT and is already at GC from first week, by matching only similar small, mainly noob accounts, while my main 3,6mil 15,5k prestige account struggles at Gold3 atm.
    Same person, same skills, different accounts.
    Smaller account has a huge advantage over the bigger.
    That shouldn’t be happening.
    In fact, in a progression based game the opposite should happen.
    A bigger account should be an advantage, not a disadvantage.
    This example shows, how broken Prestige matchmaking is.
    Kabam should be aware of that 🤔


  • ChatterofforumsChatterofforums Member Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    Rather disappointing that this topic has been getting this much attention and had several request to just get confirmation mods are aware of the concern but they just completing ignoring us.

    It's more frustrating as this situation was causes bases on their overly coddling responses to the weaker players complaining about pretty much everything in BG matchmaking starting in season 1. This currently broken situation is a result and can't even get acknowledged.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,583 ★★★★★
    edited January 2023
    War is not the same as BGs. It's also not equally as broken as Prestige Wars. Two different game modes, with different scoring metrics, and different Reward structures.
    No matter what suggestion you come up with, allowing people to grossly overpower others, or allow the system to be manipulated with 2*s, or whatever other alternative you can think of, is not better. If the Rewards are the argument, which to be frank only applies to those going for competitive Ranking, then that needs to be addressed. Not by letting people ruin reasonable progress for the people much earlier on in the game. That's not just "whining". That's a request for the ability to play where they're at and advance appropriately.
    The argument has never been Rewards. It's been the stability of the Matches. People don't just want "easy Rewards". They want a system that places them in Matches they can compete with. It isn't even possible to carry over like War, where War Rating balances out to an appropriate spot. Each Season starts at 0. Not the same thing at all.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,583 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Rather disappointing that this topic has been getting this much attention and had several request to just get confirmation mods are aware of the concern but they just completing ignoring us.

    It's more frustrating as this situation was causes bases on their overly coddling responses to the weaker players complaining about pretty much everything in BG matchmaking starting in season 1. This currently broken situation is a result and can't even get acknowledged.

    I believe it was actually a direct response to deck manipulation (although there were other things brewing). To respond to deck manipulation, you basically have two options. Measure decks in a better way than just averaging the contents, or simply don't match on decks at all. They chose the latter. And then they had two choices: match on roster, or match on record. They chose the former, because they like the idea of matching players based on "strength" for some vague idea of strength. It is why they tried matching by alliance prestige in alliance war. They like the idea.

    It is a likeable idea. It is also completely broken, which is why no one does it. Even Kabam came to that conclusion for war. It is a nice idea in theory to match alliances against each other based on some notion of "fairness of strength." But if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, so they changed it but only after they tried to salvage their nice idea for a couple years.

    It is a nice idea in Battlegrounds also. Still horribly broken, but still a nice idea so when given a chance to try it again, they decided to try it again. It is provably broken, but while you can prove this on paper, game developers typically prefer to prove water is wet by drowning in it.
    What suggestion do you have, given the current way BGs are measured, and the limitations of a square-one monthly Season? That's not a rhetorical question. I'd be interested in hearing if you have a solution that accommodates both issues.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,583 ★★★★★
    I suggested Brackets, perhaps 3, separated by Titles. One for the first two, one for the second two, and the final for TB and Para. That would somewhat alleviate the issues.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,583 ★★★★★
    I think any sort of variation on a separation like that, with Rewards adjusted to be appropriate for where Players are, might be less troublesome than having everyone in the same pool at once.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,583 ★★★★★
    Thanks for registering. I understand what you're saying.
  • mgj0630mgj0630 Member Posts: 1,097 ★★★★
    I would suggest simply going back to last season's match making system, but prevent the sandbagging through rarity filters.

    Thronebreaker and Paragon can only have 5* r4 or higher and 6* or higher champs in their deck.

    Uncollected and Cav can go down to 4*r5, and 5* and 6* rarities.

    Proven and Conquerer can have whatever they want.

    From there, match on deck strength just like last season.

    Will you still have corner cases where someone is gonna get crushed? Probably, but it will be because that someone has progressed to a VT tier where the only match available was against someone with a "weaker" Paragon type deck.

    That prevents the deck manipulation but still keeps the likelihood of everyone fighting everyone else.

    At least that works in my head.
  • ChatterofforumsChatterofforums Member Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    Now this ridiculous matchmaking system has got these lower entitled players complaining about having to fight decent players in leagues way above where they belong.

    Same thing happened last season. It's ridiculous some dude just make a big complaint post complaining to Kabam hea facing paragons in diamond when he only has 3 r3 6 stars.

    Meanwhike we have lots of paragons still stuck in gold and platinum and this dude comaimong about matches in diamond tier when he belongs way lower.

    Kabam really needs to reevaluate this nonsense system.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Member Posts: 1,553 ★★★★★
    Hoping for some mod to chime in and let us know if this is even on their radar to fix at some point.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,583 ★★★★★
    Yes, but you're a person with the experience of a 4M Account, playing with an 800k. It's not the same for people who are genuinely at that point.
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