I have to agree that matchmaking isn't perfect and it definitely discourages ranking up champs unless they fit the meta. And even then, if you r4 one champ it sends you into the next level of competition, where it gets increasingly tough to win.
My PI was 12800 a week ago. Just for testing I added a few relics and ranked up my Nimrod. My PI is 13900 right now with those changes and ppl might think, whoa, but really my roster hasn't changed much.
I'm winning matches using my r2/3 champs and a lot of 5* r5 because that's what I have for this "meta".
If I r4 another champ, I'm sure it'll put a hard stop on me winning matches.
13.9k prestige is quite low to lure the big accounts. When you reach the 15k mark you will start facing stacked accounts with r4s/r3s decks. I’m at 15.6k prestige and I match up to full r4 decks. And the most annoying part is, these full r4 deck accounts are still at Gold2, while UC accounts are at GC 😠 No matter how you try to justify this, it doesn’t seems right 🤔
That's what I said. Ranking up champs has never been so bad.
I want to, but really I don't want to.
Not sure what you mean by "try to justify".
It refers on the “full r4 deck accounts are still at Gold2, while UC accounts are at GC” part of the post 😉
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
Knowing kabam, don't think they'll give rewards like that, for free.
Whole idea is ppl spend to progress through tiers and some do, when they get stuck.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
Knowing kabam, don't think they'll give rewards like that, for free.
Whole idea is ppl spend to progress through tiers and some do, when they get stuck.
Well, it's more the idea that we earn Rewards we fight for.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
It would be a little harder than that. We can't have players get into Vibranium and then park there indefinitely collecting free rewards. There would have to be some sort of qualifying participation metric, and also some tier decay mechanism to prevent players from staying at high tier forever, since at the moment losses do not demote you below your current VT tier.
If they implement track tier continuation, there would need to be some side line milestone or other mechanism to re-earn the lower tier rewards separate from progression. It is possible, but would take some time to find a fair balance point.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
It would be a little harder than that. We can't have players get into Vibranium and then park there indefinitely collecting free rewards. There would have to be some sort of qualifying participation metric, and also some tier decay mechanism to prevent players from staying at high tier forever, since at the moment losses do not demote you below your current VT tier.
If they implement track tier continuation, there would need to be some side line milestone or other mechanism to re-earn the lower tier rewards separate from progression. It is possible, but would take some time to find a fair balance point.
Still not that difficult to implement. Victory Track rewards can be based on how many "points" you earn. get 1 point for progressing a tier and get a bunch of points in the mail at the start of the season based on how well you did. Hearthstone has that exact system. They have 25 tiers and based on your performance from the season before they give you progress back towards the top tier. Generally 1 Tier is worth 1 Win. It's not free rewards, it's a continuation of the rewards you earned from the season before.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
It would be a little harder than that. We can't have players get into Vibranium and then park there indefinitely collecting free rewards. There would have to be some sort of qualifying participation metric, and also some tier decay mechanism to prevent players from staying at high tier forever, since at the moment losses do not demote you below your current VT tier.
If they implement track tier continuation, there would need to be some side line milestone or other mechanism to re-earn the lower tier rewards separate from progression. It is possible, but would take some time to find a fair balance point.
Still not that difficult to implement. Victory Track rewards can be based on how many "points" you earn. get 1 point for progressing a tier and get a bunch of points in the mail at the start of the season based on how well you did. Hearthstone has that exact system. They have 25 tiers and based on your performance from the season before they give you progress back towards the top tier. Generally 1 Tier is worth 1 Win. It's not free rewards, it's a continuation of the rewards you earned from the season before.
It would have to find a balance point that the majority of people found to be fair. That's never easy.
If you give me a set of system requirements and design constraints, I can guarantee delivering you a system. If you give me a set of system requirements and design constraints and tell me someone else has to implement the design, I can promise you a system that will eventually be implementable. If you give me a set of system requirements and design constraints and tell me to deliver a design a large group of people will believe is fair, that's a potentially open ended problem space.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
It would be a little harder than that. We can't have players get into Vibranium and then park there indefinitely collecting free rewards. There would have to be some sort of qualifying participation metric, and also some tier decay mechanism to prevent players from staying at high tier forever, since at the moment losses do not demote you below your current VT tier.
If they implement track tier continuation, there would need to be some side line milestone or other mechanism to re-earn the lower tier rewards separate from progression. It is possible, but would take some time to find a fair balance point.
Still not that difficult to implement. Victory Track rewards can be based on how many "points" you earn. get 1 point for progressing a tier and get a bunch of points in the mail at the start of the season based on how well you did. Hearthstone has that exact system. They have 25 tiers and based on your performance from the season before they give you progress back towards the top tier. Generally 1 Tier is worth 1 Win. It's not free rewards, it's a continuation of the rewards you earned from the season before.
I think whatever system they implement would have to be based on measuring performance within the Season. Whether that means a continuation of where you left off or not. I don't see it as reasonable or even fair to have Players receive all previous Milestones by default, just from starting off where they left off.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
Knowing kabam, don't think they'll give rewards like that, for free.
Whole idea is ppl spend to progress through tiers and some do, when they get stuck.
Agreed however, greed is not a good excuse for the disaster BGs have become.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
It would be a little harder than that. We can't have players get into Vibranium and then park there indefinitely collecting free rewards. There would have to be some sort of qualifying participation metric, and also some tier decay mechanism to prevent players from staying at high tier forever, since at the moment losses do not demote you below your current VT tier.
If they implement track tier continuation, there would need to be some side line milestone or other mechanism to re-earn the lower tier rewards separate from progression. It is possible, but would take some time to find a fair balance point.
You would drop 2-3 tiers each season so you couldn't just sit in one spot.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
It would be a little harder than that. We can't have players get into Vibranium and then park there indefinitely collecting free rewards. There would have to be some sort of qualifying participation metric, and also some tier decay mechanism to prevent players from staying at high tier forever, since at the moment losses do not demote you below your current VT tier.
If they implement track tier continuation, there would need to be some side line milestone or other mechanism to re-earn the lower tier rewards separate from progression. It is possible, but would take some time to find a fair balance point.
Still not that difficult to implement. Victory Track rewards can be based on how many "points" you earn. get 1 point for progressing a tier and get a bunch of points in the mail at the start of the season based on how well you did. Hearthstone has that exact system. They have 25 tiers and based on your performance from the season before they give you progress back towards the top tier. Generally 1 Tier is worth 1 Win. It's not free rewards, it's a continuation of the rewards you earned from the season before.
I think whatever system they implement would have to be based on measuring performance within the Season. Whether that means a continuation of where you left off or not. I don't see it as reasonable or even fair to have Players receive all previous Milestones by default, just from starting off where they left off.
they don't start where they left off though. getting 1 win for each tier achieved would put people who reached GC starting around Gold something. If they didn't play in the following season, they would then get pushed back to Bronze. keep in mind that the most significant rewards from the beginning of the victory track are Elders Mark. Getting a head start on earning those only encourages people to play more which is generally a good thing.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
It would be a little harder than that. We can't have players get into Vibranium and then park there indefinitely collecting free rewards. There would have to be some sort of qualifying participation metric, and also some tier decay mechanism to prevent players from staying at high tier forever, since at the moment losses do not demote you below your current VT tier.
If they implement track tier continuation, there would need to be some side line milestone or other mechanism to re-earn the lower tier rewards separate from progression. It is possible, but would take some time to find a fair balance point.
Still not that difficult to implement. Victory Track rewards can be based on how many "points" you earn. get 1 point for progressing a tier and get a bunch of points in the mail at the start of the season based on how well you did. Hearthstone has that exact system. They have 25 tiers and based on your performance from the season before they give you progress back towards the top tier. Generally 1 Tier is worth 1 Win. It's not free rewards, it's a continuation of the rewards you earned from the season before.
I think whatever system they implement would have to be based on measuring performance within the Season. Whether that means a continuation of where you left off or not. I don't see it as reasonable or even fair to have Players receive all previous Milestones by default, just from starting off where they left off.
they don't start where they left off though. getting 1 win for each tier achieved would put people who reached GC starting around Gold something. If they didn't play in the following season, they would then get pushed back to Bronze. keep in mind that the most significant rewards from the beginning of the victory track are Elders Mark. Getting a head start on earning those only encourages people to play more which is generally a good thing.
If that's the case, just have a Qualifying Round of a couple of weeks before each Season. Mitigate the Matches, then align people in appropriate Brackets when the Season starts. Then let it play itself out. Anyone who starts late in the Season will work their way up from square one.
I'm a lower-end paragon (just got my 8th r4 6* champion) with just above 2 mil total base hero rating (I've been playing since early 2015 so a fair bit lower than some of my contemporaries); If you don't believe me, my ign is also Herm. I'm not the paragon player that has fully explored every content available to me due to time constraints and a lack of units (f2p and I'm nowhere close in terms of skill to Swedeah, MSD, Beroman, etc.) but I have done every piece of story content except act 6 exploration. My roster has always been relatively top-heavy so I've ended up in matchups with accounts with similar prestige but much more developed rosters. That said, whether it be skill, luck, or just outdrafting my opponents, I do still tend to win matches in the victory track (I generally level out in Gladiator's Circuit around 100 so it doesn't last forever). This month admittedly has been my slowest to reach Gladiator's Circuit but that has more to do with me not playing BGs in favor of grinding Thronbreaker EQ (before yesterday it had been 6 days since I'd last touched BGs; I've already gone from Gold 3 to Platinum 3). In terms of this month's nodes, I definitely do think that they are more restrictive than any we've had before but at least on a personal level, I was lucky to have many of the right champs ranked to take full advantage of them going in. Regardless, I still would agree that the matchmaking system is unfair. I haven't noticed a change in this month's matchmaking specifically but prestige-based matchmaking gives those other accounts with much more flushed-out rosters a huge advantage going in. I may still win the majority of these matchups but that's not to say it isn't difficult to do so. I've lost plenty as well too. But anyhow, I can't really think of a better system than what is currently in place so there's not much I have to offer as far as solutions are concerned.
tl;dr I don't think it's gotten worse but matchmaking still is a pain
Side note: my alt account (much weaker thronebreaker) has an extremely easy time cruising through the victory track. I think I've had up to like a 10-match win streak at times
I'm an early Paragon player, with 3 6R4s and another 49 6R3s. Almost 2,8 mil. account and 14k Prestige. I have explored 8.1 100%, I am 5 paths (against 7.4.6 Kang) away from 100% Act 7, all Variants 100% (except V1).
I'm constantly facing other Paragon accounts with full armies of 6R4s. It is almost irrelevant whom I ban, since they always have a ton of other incredible options. I struggle to make a win and I'm stuck in Bronze III. Yes, I do know that there is some strategy involved in choosing your defenders, based on their deck etc.
I have decided not to stress about it, though. I play my 3 matches every 2 days, win one or two, buy some 6* shards / sig stones from the BG store and call it a day.
If Kabam expect me to accept a pay-to-play game mode, they have another thing coming.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
This is exactly right. Even if we just did bronze-silver-gold-platinum for uncollected-cavalier-TB-paragon, that’d be ideal. Weaker rosters have peers to battle to gain experience. Stronger rosters deservedly avoid the grind.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
This is exactly right. Even if we just did bronze-silver-gold-platinum for uncollected-cavalier-TB-paragon, that’d be ideal. Weaker rosters have peers to battle to gain experience. Stronger rosters deservedly avoid the grind.
When Cav players get to Diamond but then reset down to bronze next season, while Paragon players get to start every season at platinum for doing nothing, you're probably going to discover that this is not ideal. This will get your house burned to the ground with you and your pets still in it.
Keep in mind the system we have now works perfectly fine, except for all the people who hate it. It is easy to come up with something that works if you ignore all the people who will hate it. Changing which people hate it without reducing their numbers is not progress.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
It would be a little harder than that. We can't have players get into Vibranium and then park there indefinitely collecting free rewards. There would have to be some sort of qualifying participation metric, and also some tier decay mechanism to prevent players from staying at high tier forever, since at the moment losses do not demote you below your current VT tier.
If they implement track tier continuation, there would need to be some side line milestone or other mechanism to re-earn the lower tier rewards separate from progression. It is possible, but would take some time to find a fair balance point.
Still not that difficult to implement. Victory Track rewards can be based on how many "points" you earn. get 1 point for progressing a tier and get a bunch of points in the mail at the start of the season based on how well you did. Hearthstone has that exact system. They have 25 tiers and based on your performance from the season before they give you progress back towards the top tier. Generally 1 Tier is worth 1 Win. It's not free rewards, it's a continuation of the rewards you earned from the season before.
I think whatever system they implement would have to be based on measuring performance within the Season. Whether that means a continuation of where you left off or not. I don't see it as reasonable or even fair to have Players receive all previous Milestones by default, just from starting off where they left off.
they don't start where they left off though. getting 1 win for each tier achieved would put people who reached GC starting around Gold something. If they didn't play in the following season, they would then get pushed back to Bronze. keep in mind that the most significant rewards from the beginning of the victory track are Elders Mark. Getting a head start on earning those only encourages people to play more which is generally a good thing.
If that's the case, just have a Qualifying Round of a couple of weeks before each Season. Mitigate the Matches, then align people in appropriate Brackets when the Season starts. Then let it play itself out. Anyone who starts late in the Season will work their way up from square one.
Do you want uncollected to be shielded from facing paragon accounts in this qualifying round pre season?
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
It would be a little harder than that. We can't have players get into Vibranium and then park there indefinitely collecting free rewards. There would have to be some sort of qualifying participation metric, and also some tier decay mechanism to prevent players from staying at high tier forever, since at the moment losses do not demote you below your current VT tier.
If they implement track tier continuation, there would need to be some side line milestone or other mechanism to re-earn the lower tier rewards separate from progression. It is possible, but would take some time to find a fair balance point.
Still not that difficult to implement. Victory Track rewards can be based on how many "points" you earn. get 1 point for progressing a tier and get a bunch of points in the mail at the start of the season based on how well you did. Hearthstone has that exact system. They have 25 tiers and based on your performance from the season before they give you progress back towards the top tier. Generally 1 Tier is worth 1 Win. It's not free rewards, it's a continuation of the rewards you earned from the season before.
I think whatever system they implement would have to be based on measuring performance within the Season. Whether that means a continuation of where you left off or not. I don't see it as reasonable or even fair to have Players receive all previous Milestones by default, just from starting off where they left off.
they don't start where they left off though. getting 1 win for each tier achieved would put people who reached GC starting around Gold something. If they didn't play in the following season, they would then get pushed back to Bronze. keep in mind that the most significant rewards from the beginning of the victory track are Elders Mark. Getting a head start on earning those only encourages people to play more which is generally a good thing.
If that's the case, just have a Qualifying Round of a couple of weeks before each Season. Mitigate the Matches, then align people in appropriate Brackets when the Season starts. Then let it play itself out. Anyone who starts late in the Season will work their way up from square one.
A qualifying round for the season that is itself half a season long seems impractical to me.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
It would be a little harder than that. We can't have players get into Vibranium and then park there indefinitely collecting free rewards. There would have to be some sort of qualifying participation metric, and also some tier decay mechanism to prevent players from staying at high tier forever, since at the moment losses do not demote you below your current VT tier.
If they implement track tier continuation, there would need to be some side line milestone or other mechanism to re-earn the lower tier rewards separate from progression. It is possible, but would take some time to find a fair balance point.
Still not that difficult to implement. Victory Track rewards can be based on how many "points" you earn. get 1 point for progressing a tier and get a bunch of points in the mail at the start of the season based on how well you did. Hearthstone has that exact system. They have 25 tiers and based on your performance from the season before they give you progress back towards the top tier. Generally 1 Tier is worth 1 Win. It's not free rewards, it's a continuation of the rewards you earned from the season before.
I think whatever system they implement would have to be based on measuring performance within the Season. Whether that means a continuation of where you left off or not. I don't see it as reasonable or even fair to have Players receive all previous Milestones by default, just from starting off where they left off.
they don't start where they left off though. getting 1 win for each tier achieved would put people who reached GC starting around Gold something. If they didn't play in the following season, they would then get pushed back to Bronze. keep in mind that the most significant rewards from the beginning of the victory track are Elders Mark. Getting a head start on earning those only encourages people to play more which is generally a good thing.
If that's the case, just have a Qualifying Round of a couple of weeks before each Season. Mitigate the Matches, then align people in appropriate Brackets when the Season starts. Then let it play itself out. Anyone who starts late in the Season will work their way up from square one.
A qualifying round for the season that is itself half a season long seems impractical to me.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
This is exactly right. Even if we just did bronze-silver-gold-platinum for uncollected-cavalier-TB-paragon, that’d be ideal. Weaker rosters have peers to battle to gain experience. Stronger rosters deservedly avoid the grind.
When Cav players get to Diamond but then reset down to bronze next season, while Paragon players get to start every season at platinum for doing nothing, you're probably going to discover that this is not ideal. This will get your house burned to the ground with you and your pets still in it.
Keep in mind the system we have now works perfectly fine, except for all the people who hate it. It is easy to come up with something that works if you ignore all the people who will hate it. Changing which people hate it without reducing their numbers is not progress.
Kick start shouldn’t be happening based on title. That’s another incorrect metric. Any kick start implementation should consider ONLY last season placement. This s literally similar to how AW works with rating lock off season. Three to four wide brackets of “kick starting” are enough to mitigate big mismatches. f.e. whoever reached GC last season kick starts from Gold3 next season, whoever finished from Platinum to Vibranium stars from Silver3, and whoever finished below Platinum starts from Bronze3 aka ground zero. It’s not so hard to implement something like this. Full random matchmaking (within same bracket) and minimal mismatches. Absolutely fair. Prestige matchmaking can’t continue. It’s unfair, and game breaking considering the highest, non permanent in game rewards are on stake.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
This is exactly right. Even if we just did bronze-silver-gold-platinum for uncollected-cavalier-TB-paragon, that’d be ideal. Weaker rosters have peers to battle to gain experience. Stronger rosters deservedly avoid the grind.
When Cav players get to Diamond but then reset down to bronze next season, while Paragon players get to start every season at platinum for doing nothing, you're probably going to discover that this is not ideal. This will get your house burned to the ground with you and your pets still in it.
Keep in mind the system we have now works perfectly fine, except for all the people who hate it. It is easy to come up with something that works if you ignore all the people who will hate it. Changing which people hate it without reducing their numbers is not progress.
We're all dancing around the fundamental issue of putting everyone in the same contest. Just make a lower league for UC and CAV, with significantly fewer rewards, and restrict the current one for TB and Paragons. Take out the matchmaking and just match randomly by tier.
4.7k views and over 200 comments later, still not a single comment from a moderator, to at least acknowledge the company is aware of the issue 🙁
Not to mention several of us making several tagged requests. This thread was literally the first time (and second and third time) I've ever tagged a mod for response.
I know mods can respond to every thread, but the frustrating part of no response is the sheer volume of this thread as you mentioned.
Additionally the fact mods were quick to respond to matchmaking complaints of the lower accounts (which in turn led to this mess) is a bit frustrating.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
This is exactly right. Even if we just did bronze-silver-gold-platinum for uncollected-cavalier-TB-paragon, that’d be ideal. Weaker rosters have peers to battle to gain experience. Stronger rosters deservedly avoid the grind.
When Cav players get to Diamond but then reset down to bronze next season, while Paragon players get to start every season at platinum for doing nothing, you're probably going to discover that this is not ideal. This will get your house burned to the ground with you and your pets still in it.
Keep in mind the system we have now works perfectly fine, except for all the people who hate it. It is easy to come up with something that works if you ignore all the people who will hate it. Changing which people hate it without reducing their numbers is not progress.
We're all dancing around the fundamental issue of putting everyone in the same contest. Just make a lower league for UC and CAV, with significantly fewer rewards, and restrict the current one for TB and Paragons. Take out the matchmaking and just match randomly by tier.
Problem solved.
It solves the problem of matching across progress tiers, but creates the problem of essentially barring highly skilled players from higher rewards until they reach higher progress tiers. And this doesn't actually solve the match making problem, it just reduces it somewhat. The roster difference between the lowest TB and the highest Paragon is enormous.
There's a separate economic balance issue to consider. If you make the rewards for the UC/Cav too low, you will eliminate the incentive to participate. This can make the UC/Cav division too thin to support proper matching, which can lead to a participation death spiral where long turnstile times discourage participation.
You also have to consider the more general impact on match frequency near the division boundary. Which is to say, high Cavs and low TBs currently can match with each other. When they end up in different "leagues" they won't be able to match against each other anymore. Which means while a mid tier Cav will still have roughly the same number of players near their strength level, upper Cavs will in a sense "lose" half their opponents (because they will be on the other side of the fence). What impact this would have on competition is difficult to predict, but probably nothing good.
There is one other meta issue that will come up when you split up the player base like that. In effect, you are depleting the amount of lower tier players from the game (by moving them into their own league). This means the TBs and up will be matching against each other more often, which means their win/loss ratio will shift downward. In a sense, you're removing wins from them by taking opponent losses away. Which means on average, the higher tier players will progress slower. And because progress speed is exponentially related to win percentage, relatively small changes can result in very large net changes to overall progress speed. It would probably take a couple whole seasons of play to determine what the net impact of that would be on the distribution of players across the VT and into the GT tiers.
I think a lot of people assume that separating players by progression tier is always the obvious answer to problems like this. But this option doesn't come for free, and it isn't always the best option.
The larger issue is starting out with no rhyme or reason, and that makes the first two weeks of the entire process unreasonable. To the point where it makes no sense in playing at all until the dust settles.
That’s an issue too. Accounts should “kick start” at VT tiers based on the previous season final placement. That would allow a totally random matchmaking (within the same bracket), and protect the lower accounts from facing higher accounts from the start of the procedure. Then no one could complain, because everyone will be getting what their combination of account and skill can achieve.
I like the idea but
how do you propose we get the rewards that are given as we progress through the ranked tiers?
In the mail.
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
This is exactly right. Even if we just did bronze-silver-gold-platinum for uncollected-cavalier-TB-paragon, that’d be ideal. Weaker rosters have peers to battle to gain experience. Stronger rosters deservedly avoid the grind.
When Cav players get to Diamond but then reset down to bronze next season, while Paragon players get to start every season at platinum for doing nothing, you're probably going to discover that this is not ideal. This will get your house burned to the ground with you and your pets still in it.
Keep in mind the system we have now works perfectly fine, except for all the people who hate it. It is easy to come up with something that works if you ignore all the people who will hate it. Changing which people hate it without reducing their numbers is not progress.
We're all dancing around the fundamental issue of putting everyone in the same contest. Just make a lower league for UC and CAV, with significantly fewer rewards, and restrict the current one for TB and Paragons. Take out the matchmaking and just match randomly by tier.
Problem solved.
It solves the problem of matching across progress tiers, but creates the problem of essentially barring highly skilled players from higher rewards until they reach higher progress tiers. And this doesn't actually solve the match making problem, it just reduces it somewhat. The roster difference between the lowest TB and the highest Paragon is enormous.
There's a separate economic balance issue to consider. If you make the rewards for the UC/Cav too low, you will eliminate the incentive to participate. This can make the UC/Cav division too thin to support proper matching, which can lead to a participation death spiral where long turnstile times discourage participation.
You also have to consider the more general impact on match frequency near the division boundary. Which is to say, high Cavs and low TBs currently can match with each other. When they end up in different "leagues" they won't be able to match against each other anymore. Which means while a mid tier Cav will still have roughly the same number of players near their strength level, upper Cavs will in a sense "lose" half their opponents (because they will be on the other side of the fence). What impact this would have on competition is difficult to predict, but probably nothing good.
There is one other meta issue that will come up when you split up the player base like that. In effect, you are depleting the amount of lower tier players from the game (by moving them into their own league). This means the TBs and up will be matching against each other more often, which means their win/loss ratio will shift downward. In a sense, you're removing wins from them by taking opponent losses away. Which means on average, the higher tier players will progress slower. And because progress speed is exponentially related to win percentage, relatively small changes can result in very large net changes to overall progress speed. It would probably take a couple whole seasons of play to determine what the net impact of that would be on the distribution of players across the VT and into the GT tiers.
I think a lot of people assume that separating players by progression tier is always the obvious answer to problems like this. But this option doesn't come for free, and it isn't always the best option.
I’m not personally a big fan of progress tiered matchmaking and rewards. Random matchmaking and kick start, based on previous season placement, seems the most effective and fair solution. I can understand it needs the most work by Kabam’s end to implement, and also I suspect, this was the reason they patched “sandbagging” problem with Prestige matchmaking. Because it was easier and faster to do. But by trying to fast solve a problem, they created a bigger one. Prestige matchmaking is problematic and they should know. They had tried in AW and it was a huge failure. Yet they they chose to try it to BGs too 🤔
I have no idea what they're employing specifically, but I have a suspicion. I don't blame them as much as I blame the people who lead to the necessity. I'm sure the argument can be made that it's "natural" to look for any advantage in a competition, but repeated manipulating is more calculated than natural. There is more than one demographic of Player to consider. There is a myriad of Players trying to advance their Accounts just like anyone. It's not about the Rewards for me. I'm perfectly fine with people earning Rewards that are appropriate to where they're at. I'm more concerned with what's best for everyone, and not just more lucrative for one over the other. Therein lies the problem. I was present with War, and how it resulted in the top being made the central focus. It's still a scoff whenever someone points out the lack of fairness in Matches. 5 times the size and Roster, and it's brushed off as fair because the War Ratings are similar. I don't care who disagrees with me. I'm not that glib. My only concern is for a reasonable competition, and as long as people have some way to be able to take advantage of the system, they will use it. I just hope whatever result allows people to earn their Rewards in a reasonable and fair manner. If they win, they win. If they lose, they lose. If they have Matches that have no business taking place, that's not fair. Tanking, 2* manipulation, those are not fair ways to compete. If the Rewards are the issue, then that needs to be addressed, rather than the fact that the Matches are what they are because of the results of unsportsmanlike actions. People can't be trusted. If there's an in, they'll use it. I'd still support changing the payout based on where a Player is at, and leaving it at that. That would solve the issue. Uru for UC wouldn't be the same as Uru for Paragon, for example. I'm not opposed to other suggestions as well. I just don't want to see this game mode become a stomping grounds for one group of Players at the expense of others. That's my main quip.
TBH, I don't care if it hurts the "good player that hasn't progressed". That's what progression is for. They can just play all of the stuff in the game made for them. Do it, rank some champs and compete.
Kabam has to stop catering to the mid-tiers of players that have stuff to do and forgetting about their oldest and most loyal customers.
BGs are made for them as well. Not just the "oldest and most loyal". The game doesn't revolve around one set of Players. It's not "them or us". I've heard that argument enough in other areas. It's alienating one set of Players to appease the other. The game doesn't revolve around anyone. It's here for all levels.
I was just randomly scrolling through GC leaderboards, and seen sooooooooo many UC and Cav players, many with prestige between 7k to 8k in GC.
Meanwhile, Paragon players with literally twice their prestige are stuck in Victory track with waaaaaaay less rewards.
How can anyone consider this fair when none of those 7k-8k UC and Cav players have to face the bigger accounts but meanwhile are getting better rewards due to easier progression?
Comments
Welcome to Season 4! You're starting in Diamond III, here are rewards from the lower tiers. Good luck!
Not that hard Kabam.
Whole idea is ppl spend to progress through tiers and some do, when they get stuck.
If they implement track tier continuation, there would need to be some side line milestone or other mechanism to re-earn the lower tier rewards separate from progression. It is possible, but would take some time to find a fair balance point.
If you give me a set of system requirements and design constraints, I can guarantee delivering you a system. If you give me a set of system requirements and design constraints and tell me someone else has to implement the design, I can promise you a system that will eventually be implementable. If you give me a set of system requirements and design constraints and tell me to deliver a design a large group of people will believe is fair, that's a potentially open ended problem space.
tl;dr I don't think it's gotten worse but matchmaking still is a pain
Side note: my alt account (much weaker thronebreaker) has an extremely easy time cruising through the victory track. I think I've had up to like a 10-match win streak at times
Keep in mind the system we have now works perfectly fine, except for all the people who hate it. It is easy to come up with something that works if you ignore all the people who will hate it. Changing which people hate it without reducing their numbers is not progress.
That’s another incorrect metric.
Any kick start implementation should consider ONLY last season placement.
This s literally similar to how AW works with rating lock off season.
Three to four wide brackets of “kick starting” are enough to mitigate big mismatches.
f.e. whoever reached GC last season kick starts from Gold3 next season,
whoever finished from Platinum to Vibranium stars from Silver3, and whoever finished below Platinum starts from Bronze3 aka ground zero.
It’s not so hard to implement something like this.
Full random matchmaking (within same bracket) and minimal mismatches.
Absolutely fair.
Prestige matchmaking can’t continue.
It’s unfair, and game breaking considering the highest, non permanent in game rewards are on stake.
Problem solved.
I know mods can respond to every thread, but the frustrating part of no response is the sheer volume of this thread as you mentioned.
Additionally the fact mods were quick to respond to matchmaking complaints of the lower accounts (which in turn led to this mess) is a bit frustrating.
There's a separate economic balance issue to consider. If you make the rewards for the UC/Cav too low, you will eliminate the incentive to participate. This can make the UC/Cav division too thin to support proper matching, which can lead to a participation death spiral where long turnstile times discourage participation.
You also have to consider the more general impact on match frequency near the division boundary. Which is to say, high Cavs and low TBs currently can match with each other. When they end up in different "leagues" they won't be able to match against each other anymore. Which means while a mid tier Cav will still have roughly the same number of players near their strength level, upper Cavs will in a sense "lose" half their opponents (because they will be on the other side of the fence). What impact this would have on competition is difficult to predict, but probably nothing good.
There is one other meta issue that will come up when you split up the player base like that. In effect, you are depleting the amount of lower tier players from the game (by moving them into their own league). This means the TBs and up will be matching against each other more often, which means their win/loss ratio will shift downward. In a sense, you're removing wins from them by taking opponent losses away. Which means on average, the higher tier players will progress slower. And because progress speed is exponentially related to win percentage, relatively small changes can result in very large net changes to overall progress speed. It would probably take a couple whole seasons of play to determine what the net impact of that would be on the distribution of players across the VT and into the GT tiers.
I think a lot of people assume that separating players by progression tier is always the obvious answer to problems like this. But this option doesn't come for free, and it isn't always the best option.
Random matchmaking and kick start, based on previous season placement, seems the most effective and fair solution.
I can understand it needs the most work by Kabam’s end to implement, and also I suspect, this was the reason they patched “sandbagging” problem with Prestige matchmaking.
Because it was easier and faster to do.
But by trying to fast solve a problem, they created a bigger one.
Prestige matchmaking is problematic and they should know.
They had tried in AW and it was a huge failure.
Yet they they chose to try it to BGs too 🤔
It's not about the Rewards for me. I'm perfectly fine with people earning Rewards that are appropriate to where they're at. I'm more concerned with what's best for everyone, and not just more lucrative for one over the other.
Therein lies the problem. I was present with War, and how it resulted in the top being made the central focus. It's still a scoff whenever someone points out the lack of fairness in Matches. 5 times the size and Roster, and it's brushed off as fair because the War Ratings are similar. I don't care who disagrees with me. I'm not that glib.
My only concern is for a reasonable competition, and as long as people have some way to be able to take advantage of the system, they will use it. I just hope whatever result allows people to earn their Rewards in a reasonable and fair manner. If they win, they win. If they lose, they lose. If they have Matches that have no business taking place, that's not fair. Tanking, 2* manipulation, those are not fair ways to compete.
If the Rewards are the issue, then that needs to be addressed, rather than the fact that the Matches are what they are because of the results of unsportsmanlike actions. People can't be trusted. If there's an in, they'll use it. I'd still support changing the payout based on where a Player is at, and leaving it at that. That would solve the issue. Uru for UC wouldn't be the same as Uru for Paragon, for example.
I'm not opposed to other suggestions as well. I just don't want to see this game mode become a stomping grounds for one group of Players at the expense of others. That's my main quip.
Kabam has to stop catering to the mid-tiers of players that have stuff to do and forgetting about their oldest and most loyal customers.
Meanwhile, Paragon players with literally twice their prestige are stuck in Victory track with waaaaaaay less rewards.
How can anyone consider this fair when none of those 7k-8k UC and Cav players have to face the bigger accounts but meanwhile are getting better rewards due to easier progression?