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Is BG matchmaking encouraging you to avoid increasing prestige?

124

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  • Options
    ChatterofforumsChatterofforums Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    Yes, am now avoiding ranking up or using sig on on prestige champs
    Worknprogress said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Imagine holding your own account back bc you're too scared to match people at your own level 😂

    I have to assume your at a lower progression level as you clearly have no clue how different it is between accounts at higher prestige. One person around 16k prestige may have a few high prestige not great r4 champs while another similar prestige may have 20+ r4 champs, top defenders and all new champs.

    But this is hilarious 😂
    I dont pay attention to others accounts, but there are two groups of people who would be in favor of continuing to push prestige in current process. I assume you were in the group of those low enough players that they don't understand the difference, my bad, I was wrong.

    However, your in the second and smaller group. The group that is at the top, the group that if they want to stay at the top have to keep pushing prestige. Your likely not the bottom of an invisible prestige bracket for matchups as DNA has discussed most likely but you are more likely at the top of that invisible prestige bracket meaning, your not like many other Paragon who are going against players like you while they may have only 3 or 4 decent r4s.

    Those players aren't going to catch you in roster strength, have small chance in beating you, so why would they push prestige to try and keep fighting players like you in ever fight starting in bronze?
  • Options
    WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    No, doing rankups and sig as normal
    Chatterofforums said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Imagine holding your own account back bc you're too scared to match people at your own level 😂

    I have to assume your at a lower progression level as you clearly have no clue how different it is between accounts at higher prestige. One person around 16k prestige may have a few high prestige not great r4 champs while another similar prestige may have 20+ r4 champs, top defenders and all new champs.

    But this is hilarious 😂
    I dont pay attention to others accounts, but there are two groups of people who would be in favor of continuing to push prestige in current process. I assume you were in the group of those low enough players that they don't understand the difference, my bad, I was wrong.

    However, your in the second and smaller group. The group that is at the top, the group that if they want to stay at the top have to keep pushing prestige. Your likely not the bottom of an invisible prestige bracket for matchups as DNA has discussed most likely but you are more likely at the top of that invisible prestige bracket meaning, your not like many other Paragon who are going against players like you while they may have only 3 or 4 decent r4s.

    Those players aren't going to catch you in roster strength, have small chance in beating you, so why would they push prestige to try and keep fighting players like you in ever fight starting in bronze?
    I've never once supported prestige matching. I've been very averse to any weighted matching based on deck/account since the betas.

    I just think it's incredibly sad to try to manipulate matching in your favor regardless of what the reason is.
  • Options
    ChatterofforumsChatterofforums Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    Yes, am now avoiding ranking up or using sig on on prestige champs
    Worknprogress said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Imagine holding your own account back bc you're too scared to match people at your own level 😂

    I have to assume your at a lower progression level as you clearly have no clue how different it is between accounts at higher prestige. One person around 16k prestige may have a few high prestige not great r4 champs while another similar prestige may have 20+ r4 champs, top defenders and all new champs.

    But this is hilarious 😂
    I dont pay attention to others accounts, but there are two groups of people who would be in favor of continuing to push prestige in current process. I assume you were in the group of those low enough players that they don't understand the difference, my bad, I was wrong.

    However, your in the second and smaller group. The group that is at the top, the group that if they want to stay at the top have to keep pushing prestige. Your likely not the bottom of an invisible prestige bracket for matchups as DNA has discussed most likely but you are more likely at the top of that invisible prestige bracket meaning, your not like many other Paragon who are going against players like you while they may have only 3 or 4 decent r4s.

    Those players aren't going to catch you in roster strength, have small chance in beating you, so why would they push prestige to try and keep fighting players like you in ever fight starting in bronze?
    I've never once supported prestige matching. I've been very averse to any weighted matching based on deck/account since the betas.

    I just think it's incredibly sad to try to manipulate matching in your favor regardless of what the reason is.
    Well we agree on really the main point as all of the parts become irrelevant if this silly prestige matchmaking is removed. I think it's important for us to remember that we agree on the main and most important point on that to avoid going down unconstructive rabbit holes.

    As far as manipulating matchmaking, your more than welcome to have you own opinion but I do NOT see avoiding increasing my prestige, which does literally no game benefit than competive AQ (which I don't do) as manipulating matchmaking.

    I've never ever pushed prestige and never done a single prestige rankups in 7 years. Manipulating matchmaking is the sandbagging and stuff like that, which caused the current issue. I'm not changing my roster, I'm still doing rankups and I'm not lowering my roster or prestige so on no way should this be considered "roster manipulation" for BG.

    I will completely disagree that avoiding prestige rankups is anything close to roster manipulation. That's like saying people who ranked up silver surfer and Thor rags were manipulating their roster to get higher AQ points.

  • Options
    Ironman3000Ironman3000 Posts: 1,919 ★★★★★
    No, doing rankups and sig as normal
    pseudosane said:

    Ironman3000 said:

    pseudosane said:

    Ironman3000 said:

    pseudosane said:

    Ironman3000 said:

    pseudosane said:

    Ironman3000 said:

    pseudosane said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    pseudosane said:

    you want to handicap your account for easier matchups? bruh....

    Avoiding increasing prestige isn't handicapping account at all, unless you do competing AQ, which I don't. AQ is literally the only thing in the game that rewards high prestige.

    Meanwhile BG seems to use prestige to just give nothing but harder matches and again, prestige doesn't reflect how strong a roster really is.

    I am still doing rankups and using sig, I'm just not doing them on any champs that would replace my current top 5 prestige.
    most of the newer good champs have higher prestige, and have importance in high sig. So yes, you are handicapping your account.
    It really isn't much different from a Paragon hoarding shards for 3months for the next featured 6* crystal. A Cav to low TB can hoard for a month or two and then greatly upgrade their account. Especially now when there is nothing really that great for Paragon's anyway (like EOP or something like that).
    no its completely different. What you said makes no sense in this context.
    either that or you dont wanna be at the highest progression level and are doing everything to stay away from it.
    What are you talking about? Have you read the topic of this thread?
    I have, and my response is such. If yo uwanna be aparagon in name only, thats just pointless.
    Again, what are you talking about? What, exactly, is a "Paragon in name only"? How is hoarding shards for a new featured so much different from holding on ranking for a few months to rake in BG rewards?

    You have to explain your argument.
    Hoarding shards and hoarding rankup mats are totally different.
    one is in hope of getting new champs.
    one is intentional sabotage of ones account, in hopes of easier matchmaking in ONE GAME MODE.
    see the difference now?
    Nope. Holding back your account for a short while for an ultimate bigger gain in the future. Seems pretty similar to me.
    go ahead and hold yourself back. Makes it easier for me to beat you in BGs. Thanks.
    lol, you clearly didn't read my OP.
  • Options
    GreekhitGreekhit Posts: 2,819 ★★★★★
    Yes, am now avoiding ranking up or using sig on on prestige champs
    Worknprogress said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Imagine holding your own account back bc you're too scared to match people at your own level 😂

    I have to assume your at a lower progression level as you clearly have no clue how different it is between accounts at higher prestige. One person around 16k prestige may have a few high prestige not great r4 champs while another similar prestige may have 20+ r4 champs, top defenders and all new champs.

    But this is hilarious 😂
    I dont pay attention to others accounts, but there are two groups of people who would be in favor of continuing to push prestige in current process. I assume you were in the group of those low enough players that they don't understand the difference, my bad, I was wrong.

    However, your in the second and smaller group. The group that is at the top, the group that if they want to stay at the top have to keep pushing prestige. Your likely not the bottom of an invisible prestige bracket for matchups as DNA has discussed most likely but you are more likely at the top of that invisible prestige bracket meaning, your not like many other Paragon who are going against players like you while they may have only 3 or 4 decent r4s.

    Those players aren't going to catch you in roster strength, have small chance in beating you, so why would they push prestige to try and keep fighting players like you in ever fight starting in bronze?
    I've never once supported prestige matching. I've been very averse to any weighted matching based on deck/account since the betas.

    I just think it's incredibly sad to try to manipulate matching in your favor regardless of what the reason is.
    But that’s what is happening now.
    Prestige matchmaking manipulates matching, in favour of small accounts.
    They are avoiding the competition. That’s an undeniable FACT.
    No one asked for a favouring matchmaking.
    We are asking for RANDOM matchmaking.
    Zero parameters, except your VT bracket.
    Keep for maximum 3-5 first tiers of VT, Prestige matchmaking to avoid big miss matches and after that full random.
    Which to be honest, even that is a lot.
    You want the rewards? Fight the competition who also fights for them.
    Now Kabam allows lower new accounts to scoop all VT rewards and get GC ranked rewards.
    Meanwhile, a lot of Paragon accounts got stuck at VT brackets.
    Do anyone believes that if they had match these low accounts, they wouldn’t had won easily?
    Why then all these low accounts are placing higher?
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,249 ★★★★★
    No, doing rankups and sig as normal
    They're placing higher because they're winning their Matches.
    A smaller Account would not win against a Paragon. Groundbreaking.
    What people keep avoiding is why they're not winning their own Matches. That point is avoided because they'd rather take out a bunch of much smaller Accounts than face ones in their own vicinity.
    Honestly, I never suggested Prestige in BGs. All I said was the manipulation needs to be addressed. I'm still going to point out that people are being blamed for winning without others taking responsibility for their own results.
  • Options
    rockykostonrockykoston Posts: 1,505 ★★★★
    Yes, am now avoiding ranking up or using sig on on prestige champs
    Adevati said:

    Mackey said:

    What are parameters for this prestige matchmaking, do we know?

    Only because I'm at approx 15.8k prestige but I have faced guys with 12k prestige quite a few times 🤔

    It looks like it mostly tries to match your prestige, but will stretch out 10-15% higher or lower to find quicker matches. Beyond that, it won’t match.

    Evidence for this is that I have a few weak UC accounts (just cleared up to UC with the free Herc—so very low prestige) and I can never get them to match anyone. It just times out. Can’t even complete the 3 matches objective.
    I think it stretches to as much as 20% while matching opponents. Haven't met anyone beyond that range.
  • Options
    L1zardW1zardL1zardW1zard Posts: 144 ★★★
    Yes, am now avoiding ranking up or using sig on on prestige champs
    Greekhit said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Imagine holding your own account back bc you're too scared to match people at your own level 😂

    I have to assume your at a lower progression level as you clearly have no clue how different it is between accounts at higher prestige. One person around 16k prestige may have a few high prestige not great r4 champs while another similar prestige may have 20+ r4 champs, top defenders and all new champs.

    But this is hilarious 😂
    I dont pay attention to others accounts, but there are two groups of people who would be in favor of continuing to push prestige in current process. I assume you were in the group of those low enough players that they don't understand the difference, my bad, I was wrong.

    However, your in the second and smaller group. The group that is at the top, the group that if they want to stay at the top have to keep pushing prestige. Your likely not the bottom of an invisible prestige bracket for matchups as DNA has discussed most likely but you are more likely at the top of that invisible prestige bracket meaning, your not like many other Paragon who are going against players like you while they may have only 3 or 4 decent r4s.

    Those players aren't going to catch you in roster strength, have small chance in beating you, so why would they push prestige to try and keep fighting players like you in ever fight starting in bronze?
    I've never once supported prestige matching. I've been very averse to any weighted matching based on deck/account since the betas.

    I just think it's incredibly sad to try to manipulate matching in your favor regardless of what the reason is.
    But that’s what is happening now.
    Prestige matchmaking manipulates matching, in favour of small accounts.
    They are avoiding the competition. That’s an undeniable FACT.
    No one asked for a favouring matchmaking.
    We are asking for RANDOM matchmaking.
    Zero parameters, except your VT bracket.
    Keep for maximum 3-5 first tiers of VT, Prestige matchmaking to avoid big miss matches and after that full random.
    Which to be honest, even that is a lot.
    You want the rewards? Fight the competition who also fights for them.
    Now Kabam allows lower new accounts to scoop all VT rewards and get GC ranked rewards.
    Meanwhile, a lot of Paragon accounts got stuck at VT brackets.
    Do anyone believes that if they had match these low accounts, they wouldn’t had won easily?
    Why then all these low accounts are placing higher?
    Prestige matchmaking manipulates matching in favor of smaller accounts? What are these comments lmao that's not manipulation that's just a flawed system. It's like some of you just want to blame smaller accounts for playing the game.
  • Options
    L1zardW1zardL1zardW1zard Posts: 144 ★★★
    Yes, am now avoiding ranking up or using sig on on prestige champs
    Chatterofforums said:

    L1zardW1zard said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Let me interject before my comment becomes a back-and-forth.
    They are not getting an easy street to the GC. We've even had Players in other Threads indicate they've made it there on skill, and encountered tougher Accounts than theirs. They were scoffed at and told to enjoy their "fair" Rewards. Yet because they never fought the highest Accounts, they don't deserve to get to the actual competitive start? Let's be real. The GC is where it begins. Not where only the elite belong.
    This is the problem with the assumptions made about other Accounts. Everyone is so hyperfocused on other Accounts, through their own eyes, that they claim they can speak for what's easy and what's not, for others.
    You have people with years of experience in the game creating Alts and calling it easy, which is not a testament to how it is for someone at that stage. It's a testament to how it is for someone going back with all the knowledge and skill they have, and playing an easier part of the game FOR THEM. Not to mention how this skews the data.
    The idea that people aren't being challenged to get to the GC just because comparatively they would die against much larger Accounts is quite frankly, ignorant and arrogant. It's also blind to what is a challenge for others, and what is just absurd butchering.
    I will adamantly disagree with the implication that people aren't being challenged to get out of the VT, just because they haven't been overkilled by the largest Accounts. Especially when the largest Accounts consider it an injustice to go against equal or stronger Accounts. That's what the whole Paragon in name comment was about. People want the Title and all the Rewards, but they want to piggy back on the weaker Accounts instead of fighting other Paragons. Please.

    For the I don't know how many time, there were literally UC players with 5k prestige who were in GC within 1-2 weeks. They got all victory track rewards and at least some GC rewards.

    There were 15-16k prestige players who couldn't get out of victory track because they fought nothing but end game players with elite end game rosters. A UC fighting a UC won't be a major roster difference and many UC aren't great at the game so a slightly above average UC will get to GC fairly easy.

    Pretty much everyone at Paragon is at least above average, and many are among the absolutely best I'm the game with the absolute best rosters in the game. At Paragon level and above average players with even an average Paragon rosters or low Paragon roster will get destroyed. They will have very little chance to make it to GC. Best case is they wait until last week and hope all the end game, whales and master alliance players are already in GC. Meanwhile, that 5k UC dude been chilling in GC for weeks.

    I will NEVER agree that a weaker roster should get better rewards in rank tier rewards system UNLESS that weaker roster faces or has ability to face the stronger roster. If a lower player and in many cases waaaaay lower players can't beat me, but is in tier where slightly above average gets them to GC, how can you justify them then getting better rewards than end gamers with 15k+ prestige who that much weaker roster never has to face in victory track?

    I've asked you this question a dozen times on several threads and you've never given me anything close to a decent answer.
    I find it funny how a few months ago when sandbagging was still a thing, you were telling people who were complaining about it to stop complaining about it cause you were sick of seeing threads about sandbagging everywhere and now you're doing it too lmao. I haven't seen anyone on these forums complain about matchmaking as much as you have lately, and you may be right but you deserve a little taste so next time people complain about something you don't just try to shut them up.
    Seems kinda odd though that you were against sandbagging getting fixed, and now you're complaining because lower accounts were avoiding you 100% while you were stuck on gold. Not saying this is how it should be, in fact I want completely random matchmaking too... but it does seem like you have a little skill issue going on there pal.
    I didn't say I was against sandbagging emding then. I never was pro sandbagging. But yes, I was annoying when 7 new threads a day complaining about sandbagging came up in forums. Relook at the threads, back then I was saying the EXACT same thing as I am now. Which is when everyone is fighting for same rewards, then everyone in that tier should eligible tonight each other and that prestige and pi should play NO role in matchmaking.

    I said multiple times that sandbagging would become non-existent if they were to take pi or prestige out of the matchmaking process which is 100 percent true.

    I was 100 percent positive then that this would be their solution which I knew would be far worse for many players. Also, I made one thread 3 weeks ago at the start of when notice how bad it was and now at.the near end of season I did a poll. Nowhere close.to the same.thing nor has my message changed once.

    Additionally, the still in gold post was over 3 weeks ago and was referencing it due to being in GC within days the previous seasons. Within a couple.days of that post I was in GC. I have hundreds of videos to show I don't have a skill issue, do you?

    Just like the video I did to show some.of the accounts in GC as low as 5k prestige, it's about fairness and not punishing people for continuing to develop their roster. You should really do a better job at reading before calling people out.
    You're literally on every single post about BGs matchmaking I've seen so far complaining, not all the threads are yours but you're complaining about it on other people's posts regardless. I'm just saying, next time, don't tell people to stop complaining about an issue on the forums when you even made a whole video complaining about an issue yourself.

    I don't, and if I'm trash I don't care it's just a game. Some of you take this game way too seriously lmao I didn't care about sandbagging, I don't care about this either, I just play the game. I sure as hell don't go telling people to stop complaining about game issues though.

    I don't need to read anything else, you're a hypocrite lol.
  • Options
    ChatterofforumsChatterofforums Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    edited February 2023
    Yes, am now avoiding ranking up or using sig on on prestige champs
    L1zardW1zard said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    L1zardW1zard said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Let me interject before my comment becomes a back-and-forth.
    They are not getting an easy street to the GC. We've even had Players in other Threads indicate they've made it there on skill, and encountered tougher Accounts than theirs. They were scoffed at and told to enjoy their "fair" Rewards. Yet because they never fought the highest Accounts, they don't deserve to get to the actual competitive start? Let's be real. The GC is where it begins. Not where only the elite belong.
    This is the problem with the assumptions made about other Accounts. Everyone is so hyperfocused on other Accounts, through their own eyes, that they claim they can speak for what's easy and what's not, for others.
    You have people with years of experience in the game creating Alts and calling it easy, which is not a testament to how it is for someone at that stage. It's a testament to how it is for someone going back with all the knowledge and skill they have, and playing an easier part of the game FOR THEM. Not to mention how this skews the data.
    The idea that people aren't being challenged to get to the GC just because comparatively they would die against much larger Accounts is quite frankly, ignorant and arrogant. It's also blind to what is a challenge for others, and what is just absurd butchering.
    I will adamantly disagree with the implication that people aren't being challenged to get out of the VT, just because they haven't been overkilled by the largest Accounts. Especially when the largest Accounts consider it an injustice to go against equal or stronger Accounts. That's what the whole Paragon in name comment was about. People want the Title and all the Rewards, but they want to piggy back on the weaker Accounts instead of fighting other Paragons. Please.

    For the I don't know how many time, there were literally UC players with 5k prestige who were in GC within 1-2 weeks. They got all victory track rewards and at least some GC rewards.

    There were 15-16k prestige players who couldn't get out of victory track because they fought nothing but end game players with elite end game rosters. A UC fighting a UC won't be a major roster difference and many UC aren't great at the game so a slightly above average UC will get to GC fairly easy.

    Pretty much everyone at Paragon is at least above average, and many are among the absolutely best I'm the game with the absolute best rosters in the game. At Paragon level and above average players with even an average Paragon rosters or low Paragon roster will get destroyed. They will have very little chance to make it to GC. Best case is they wait until last week and hope all the end game, whales and master alliance players are already in GC. Meanwhile, that 5k UC dude been chilling in GC for weeks.

    I will NEVER agree that a weaker roster should get better rewards in rank tier rewards system UNLESS that weaker roster faces or has ability to face the stronger roster. If a lower player and in many cases waaaaay lower players can't beat me, but is in tier where slightly above average gets them to GC, how can you justify them then getting better rewards than end gamers with 15k+ prestige who that much weaker roster never has to face in victory track?

    I've asked you this question a dozen times on several threads and you've never given me anything close to a decent answer.
    I find it funny how a few months ago when sandbagging was still a thing, you were telling people who were complaining about it to stop complaining about it cause you were sick of seeing threads about sandbagging everywhere and now you're doing it too lmao. I haven't seen anyone on these forums complain about matchmaking as much as you have lately, and you may be right but you deserve a little taste so next time people complain about something you don't just try to shut them up.
    Seems kinda odd though that you were against sandbagging getting fixed, and now you're complaining because lower accounts were avoiding you 100% while you were stuck on gold. Not saying this is how it should be, in fact I want completely random matchmaking too... but it does seem like you have a little skill issue going on there pal.
    I didn't say I was against sandbagging emding then. I never was pro sandbagging. But yes, I was annoying when 7 new threads a day complaining about sandbagging came up in forums. Relook at the threads, back then I was saying the EXACT same thing as I am now. Which is when everyone is fighting for same rewards, then everyone in that tier should eligible tonight each other and that prestige and pi should play NO role in matchmaking.

    I said multiple times that sandbagging would become non-existent if they were to take pi or prestige out of the matchmaking process which is 100 percent true.

    I was 100 percent positive then that this would be their solution which I knew would be far worse for many players. Also, I made one thread 3 weeks ago at the start of when notice how bad it was and now at.the near end of season I did a poll. Nowhere close.to the same.thing nor has my message changed once.

    Additionally, the still in gold post was over 3 weeks ago and was referencing it due to being in GC within days the previous seasons. Within a couple.days of that post I was in GC. I have hundreds of videos to show I don't have a skill issue, do you?

    Just like the video I did to show some.of the accounts in GC as low as 5k prestige, it's about fairness and not punishing people for continuing to develop their roster. You should really do a better job at reading before calling people out.
    You're literally on every single post about BGs matchmaking I've seen so far complaining, not all the threads are yours but you're complaining about it on other people's posts regardless. I'm just saying, next time, don't tell people to stop complaining about an issue on the forums when you even made a whole video complaining about an issue yourself.

    I don't, and if I'm trash I don't care it's just a game. Some of you take this game way too seriously lmao I didn't care about sandbagging, I don't care about this either, I just play the game. I sure as hell don't go telling people to stop complaining about game issues though.

    I don't need to read anything else, you're a hypocrite lol.
    I never told people to stop complaining, I would inform them that multiple threads already existed in the subject and no need for new ones several times every single day.

    But I am on each of these threads I see as those who kept throwing temper tantrums about sandbagging (which again for the record I never agreed with) is what led to the change that cause the current issue that is negatively effecting the stronger accounts while lower accounts get smoother path to better rewards without facing the higher tiers opponents.

    I will continue to comment on these threads as long as this is an issue. This might not be resolved as quick as the fix for sandbagging (which led to this disaster of a system) but eventually they will realize this is exact mistake they made when they did prestige AW matchmaking. I want to ensure they continue to hear the issues in the meantime.

    Before referring to my previous posts, you really should go back and reread as you keep stating incorrect information that I never said. I'm not sure if your a very poor reader or just a selectively poor memory, but if your going to try and blast people with what you claim they have said, at least be correct on what your claiming they said.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,249 ★★★★★
    No, doing rankups and sig as normal
    You can state your issue without belittling the success of others. That's where the contention is coming from.
  • Options
    L1zardW1zardL1zardW1zard Posts: 144 ★★★
    Yes, am now avoiding ranking up or using sig on on prestige champs
    Chatterofforums said:

    L1zardW1zard said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    L1zardW1zard said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Let me interject before my comment becomes a back-and-forth.
    They are not getting an easy street to the GC. We've even had Players in other Threads indicate they've made it there on skill, and encountered tougher Accounts than theirs. They were scoffed at and told to enjoy their "fair" Rewards. Yet because they never fought the highest Accounts, they don't deserve to get to the actual competitive start? Let's be real. The GC is where it begins. Not where only the elite belong.
    This is the problem with the assumptions made about other Accounts. Everyone is so hyperfocused on other Accounts, through their own eyes, that they claim they can speak for what's easy and what's not, for others.
    You have people with years of experience in the game creating Alts and calling it easy, which is not a testament to how it is for someone at that stage. It's a testament to how it is for someone going back with all the knowledge and skill they have, and playing an easier part of the game FOR THEM. Not to mention how this skews the data.
    The idea that people aren't being challenged to get to the GC just because comparatively they would die against much larger Accounts is quite frankly, ignorant and arrogant. It's also blind to what is a challenge for others, and what is just absurd butchering.
    I will adamantly disagree with the implication that people aren't being challenged to get out of the VT, just because they haven't been overkilled by the largest Accounts. Especially when the largest Accounts consider it an injustice to go against equal or stronger Accounts. That's what the whole Paragon in name comment was about. People want the Title and all the Rewards, but they want to piggy back on the weaker Accounts instead of fighting other Paragons. Please.

    For the I don't know how many time, there were literally UC players with 5k prestige who were in GC within 1-2 weeks. They got all victory track rewards and at least some GC rewards.

    There were 15-16k prestige players who couldn't get out of victory track because they fought nothing but end game players with elite end game rosters. A UC fighting a UC won't be a major roster difference and many UC aren't great at the game so a slightly above average UC will get to GC fairly easy.

    Pretty much everyone at Paragon is at least above average, and many are among the absolutely best I'm the game with the absolute best rosters in the game. At Paragon level and above average players with even an average Paragon rosters or low Paragon roster will get destroyed. They will have very little chance to make it to GC. Best case is they wait until last week and hope all the end game, whales and master alliance players are already in GC. Meanwhile, that 5k UC dude been chilling in GC for weeks.

    I will NEVER agree that a weaker roster should get better rewards in rank tier rewards system UNLESS that weaker roster faces or has ability to face the stronger roster. If a lower player and in many cases waaaaay lower players can't beat me, but is in tier where slightly above average gets them to GC, how can you justify them then getting better rewards than end gamers with 15k+ prestige who that much weaker roster never has to face in victory track?

    I've asked you this question a dozen times on several threads and you've never given me anything close to a decent answer.
    I find it funny how a few months ago when sandbagging was still a thing, you were telling people who were complaining about it to stop complaining about it cause you were sick of seeing threads about sandbagging everywhere and now you're doing it too lmao. I haven't seen anyone on these forums complain about matchmaking as much as you have lately, and you may be right but you deserve a little taste so next time people complain about something you don't just try to shut them up.
    Seems kinda odd though that you were against sandbagging getting fixed, and now you're complaining because lower accounts were avoiding you 100% while you were stuck on gold. Not saying this is how it should be, in fact I want completely random matchmaking too... but it does seem like you have a little skill issue going on there pal.
    I didn't say I was against sandbagging emding then. I never was pro sandbagging. But yes, I was annoying when 7 new threads a day complaining about sandbagging came up in forums. Relook at the threads, back then I was saying the EXACT same thing as I am now. Which is when everyone is fighting for same rewards, then everyone in that tier should eligible tonight each other and that prestige and pi should play NO role in matchmaking.

    I said multiple times that sandbagging would become non-existent if they were to take pi or prestige out of the matchmaking process which is 100 percent true.

    I was 100 percent positive then that this would be their solution which I knew would be far worse for many players. Also, I made one thread 3 weeks ago at the start of when notice how bad it was and now at.the near end of season I did a poll. Nowhere close.to the same.thing nor has my message changed once.

    Additionally, the still in gold post was over 3 weeks ago and was referencing it due to being in GC within days the previous seasons. Within a couple.days of that post I was in GC. I have hundreds of videos to show I don't have a skill issue, do you?

    Just like the video I did to show some.of the accounts in GC as low as 5k prestige, it's about fairness and not punishing people for continuing to develop their roster. You should really do a better job at reading before calling people out.
    You're literally on every single post about BGs matchmaking I've seen so far complaining, not all the threads are yours but you're complaining about it on other people's posts regardless. I'm just saying, next time, don't tell people to stop complaining about an issue on the forums when you even made a whole video complaining about an issue yourself.

    I don't, and if I'm trash I don't care it's just a game. Some of you take this game way too seriously lmao I didn't care about sandbagging, I don't care about this either, I just play the game. I sure as hell don't go telling people to stop complaining about game issues though.

    I don't need to read anything else, you're a hypocrite lol.
    I never told people to stop complaining, I would inform them that multiple threads already existed in the subject and no need for new ones several times every single day.

    But I am on each of these threads I see as those who kept throwing temper tantrums about sandbagging (which again for the record I never agreed with) is what led to the change that cause the current issue that is negatively effecting the stronger accounts while lower accounts get smoother path to better rewards without facing the higher tiers opponents.

    I will continue to comment on these threads as long as this is an issue. This might not be resolved as quick as the fix for sandbagging (which led to this disaster of a system) but eventually they will realize this is exact mistake they made when they did prestige AW matchmaking. I want to ensure they continue to hear the issues in the meantime.

    Before referring to my previous posts, you really should go back and reread as you keep stating incorrect information that I never said. I'm not sure if your a very poor reader or just a selectively poor memory, but if your going to try and blast people with what you claim they have said, at least be correct on what your claiming they said.
    No, you told people to stop making threads about it because you were sick of seeing them. I am also sick of seeing you complain about this because there's also many threads on this topic.

    And now you're throwing temper tantrums too. The tables have turned, have fun throwing temper tantrums because you have to face Paragons only now!

    Like I said, I don't need to go back to read anything cause I saw you telling people to stop posting threads multiple times. It doesn't matter if the reason was because there were too many threads or whatever lol keep trying to deflect, very sad attempts.
  • Options
    ChatterofforumsChatterofforums Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    Yes, am now avoiding ranking up or using sig on on prestige champs
    L1zardW1zard said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    L1zardW1zard said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    L1zardW1zard said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Let me interject before my comment becomes a back-and-forth.
    They are not getting an easy street to the GC. We've even had Players in other Threads indicate they've made it there on skill, and encountered tougher Accounts than theirs. They were scoffed at and told to enjoy their "fair" Rewards. Yet because they never fought the highest Accounts, they don't deserve to get to the actual competitive start? Let's be real. The GC is where it begins. Not where only the elite belong.
    This is the problem with the assumptions made about other Accounts. Everyone is so hyperfocused on other Accounts, through their own eyes, that they claim they can speak for what's easy and what's not, for others.
    You have people with years of experience in the game creating Alts and calling it easy, which is not a testament to how it is for someone at that stage. It's a testament to how it is for someone going back with all the knowledge and skill they have, and playing an easier part of the game FOR THEM. Not to mention how this skews the data.
    The idea that people aren't being challenged to get to the GC just because comparatively they would die against much larger Accounts is quite frankly, ignorant and arrogant. It's also blind to what is a challenge for others, and what is just absurd butchering.
    I will adamantly disagree with the implication that people aren't being challenged to get out of the VT, just because they haven't been overkilled by the largest Accounts. Especially when the largest Accounts consider it an injustice to go against equal or stronger Accounts. That's what the whole Paragon in name comment was about. People want the Title and all the Rewards, but they want to piggy back on the weaker Accounts instead of fighting other Paragons. Please.

    For the I don't know how many time, there were literally UC players with 5k prestige who were in GC within 1-2 weeks. They got all victory track rewards and at least some GC rewards.

    There were 15-16k prestige players who couldn't get out of victory track because they fought nothing but end game players with elite end game rosters. A UC fighting a UC won't be a major roster difference and many UC aren't great at the game so a slightly above average UC will get to GC fairly easy.

    Pretty much everyone at Paragon is at least above average, and many are among the absolutely best I'm the game with the absolute best rosters in the game. At Paragon level and above average players with even an average Paragon rosters or low Paragon roster will get destroyed. They will have very little chance to make it to GC. Best case is they wait until last week and hope all the end game, whales and master alliance players are already in GC. Meanwhile, that 5k UC dude been chilling in GC for weeks.

    I will NEVER agree that a weaker roster should get better rewards in rank tier rewards system UNLESS that weaker roster faces or has ability to face the stronger roster. If a lower player and in many cases waaaaay lower players can't beat me, but is in tier where slightly above average gets them to GC, how can you justify them then getting better rewards than end gamers with 15k+ prestige who that much weaker roster never has to face in victory track?

    I've asked you this question a dozen times on several threads and you've never given me anything close to a decent answer.
    I find it funny how a few months ago when sandbagging was still a thing, you were telling people who were complaining about it to stop complaining about it cause you were sick of seeing threads about sandbagging everywhere and now you're doing it too lmao. I haven't seen anyone on these forums complain about matchmaking as much as you have lately, and you may be right but you deserve a little taste so next time people complain about something you don't just try to shut them up.
    Seems kinda odd though that you were against sandbagging getting fixed, and now you're complaining because lower accounts were avoiding you 100% while you were stuck on gold. Not saying this is how it should be, in fact I want completely random matchmaking too... but it does seem like you have a little skill issue going on there pal.
    I didn't say I was against sandbagging emding then. I never was pro sandbagging. But yes, I was annoying when 7 new threads a day complaining about sandbagging came up in forums. Relook at the threads, back then I was saying the EXACT same thing as I am now. Which is when everyone is fighting for same rewards, then everyone in that tier should eligible tonight each other and that prestige and pi should play NO role in matchmaking.

    I said multiple times that sandbagging would become non-existent if they were to take pi or prestige out of the matchmaking process which is 100 percent true.

    I was 100 percent positive then that this would be their solution which I knew would be far worse for many players. Also, I made one thread 3 weeks ago at the start of when notice how bad it was and now at.the near end of season I did a poll. Nowhere close.to the same.thing nor has my message changed once.

    Additionally, the still in gold post was over 3 weeks ago and was referencing it due to being in GC within days the previous seasons. Within a couple.days of that post I was in GC. I have hundreds of videos to show I don't have a skill issue, do you?

    Just like the video I did to show some.of the accounts in GC as low as 5k prestige, it's about fairness and not punishing people for continuing to develop their roster. You should really do a better job at reading before calling people out.
    You're literally on every single post about BGs matchmaking I've seen so far complaining, not all the threads are yours but you're complaining about it on other people's posts regardless. I'm just saying, next time, don't tell people to stop complaining about an issue on the forums when you even made a whole video complaining about an issue yourself.

    I don't, and if I'm trash I don't care it's just a game. Some of you take this game way too seriously lmao I didn't care about sandbagging, I don't care about this either, I just play the game. I sure as hell don't go telling people to stop complaining about game issues though.

    I don't need to read anything else, you're a hypocrite lol.
    I never told people to stop complaining, I would inform them that multiple threads already existed in the subject and no need for new ones several times every single day.

    But I am on each of these threads I see as those who kept throwing temper tantrums about sandbagging (which again for the record I never agreed with) is what led to the change that cause the current issue that is negatively effecting the stronger accounts while lower accounts get smoother path to better rewards without facing the higher tiers opponents.

    I will continue to comment on these threads as long as this is an issue. This might not be resolved as quick as the fix for sandbagging (which led to this disaster of a system) but eventually they will realize this is exact mistake they made when they did prestige AW matchmaking. I want to ensure they continue to hear the issues in the meantime.

    Before referring to my previous posts, you really should go back and reread as you keep stating incorrect information that I never said. I'm not sure if your a very poor reader or just a selectively poor memory, but if your going to try and blast people with what you claim they have said, at least be correct on what your claiming they said.
    No, you told people to stop making threads about it because you were sick of seeing them. I am also sick of seeing you complain about this because there's also many threads on this topic.

    And now you're throwing temper tantrums too. The tables have turned, have fun throwing temper tantrums because you have to face Paragons only now!

    Like I said, I don't need to go back to read anything cause I saw you telling people to stop posting threads multiple times. It doesn't matter if the reason was because there were too many threads or whatever lol keep trying to deflect, very sad attempts.
    Your a really angry person aren't you? Seem so overly aggressive for so little reason. Anyway, there were 5+ threads a days for weeks on sandbagging. I haven't seen even 5 threads on this exact subject in the past month, big difference.

    No point on going back and forth with you, as really seems like you got bigger issues going on with such levels of hostility.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,249 ★★★★★
    No, doing rankups and sig as normal
    That's the problem. Easier for YOU, with your knowledge and experience, is not easier for someone else. That was my whole point about people making Alts and calling that proof that it's easier. That doesn't speak for everyone else at that level. I really wish people would look past their own nose on this.
  • Options
    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,687 Guardian
    Worknprogress said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Imagine holding your own account back bc you're too scared to match people at your own level 😂

    There are some people like that, but there's also a more general fear of the unknown happening where people are anecdotally or even experiencing match up circumstances in which lower prestige accounts are having a much easier time progressing.

    Also, I don't know this for certain, I can only offer my opinion based on what I've seen, but I don't think the match system is looking for people at or even super close to your prestige. I think it is invisibly organizing players into "prestige bands" and thus if you happening to be at the bottom of one, you won't get matched against equal competition, you will be matched against statistically much stronger competition. Conversely, if you're near the top of such a grouping you will get matched against statistically weaker competition *until* you advance your prestige out of that group of players and into the next higher group. Specifically, the *bottom* of that group.

    Whereupon, no matter how many times you lose, no matter how you juggle your roster, you'll be condemned to get matched against much higher competition until you completely level yourself out of that region of matching, which could be non-trivial.
    I've been averse to all forms of prestige/deck "strength" matching from the start personally. I just find any attempts at deck/account manipulation to gain favorable matching to be incredibly sad.

    I just don't think someone's complaints about matchmaking cna be taken seriously if they're actively trying to game the matchmaking system while complaining about it.
    Personally, I'd be fine with ELO matching in VT as well as GT. There are issues with ELO matching that impact VT in ways it does not impact GT. I've even mentioned some of them in the past. However, I don't think it is really fair for me to be holding up both sides of the argument. The current system is broken. It is obviously broken. It is obviously broken in obvious ways that should have been obvious before it was ever instituted. ELO matching is not the perfect answer, but it is infinitely better than what we have now, and the only things it breaks are Kabam's problem to solve, and it should be they who make the argument why those things are problems and why they need remediation, because in all other respects they seem unwilling to discuss the details of the current system or defend it in any way.

    The people who are defending it instead have no idea what the consequences would be if Kabam accepted their arguments. It almost makes me hope they will.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,249 ★★★★★
    No, doing rankups and sig as normal
    I'm not arguing for any system, and I've stated as much. What I'm voicing is that it's not a fair assessment to say it's a cake walk for the people who are genuinely at that stage in the game. I think that's a bit trite.
  • Options
    K00shMaanK00shMaan Posts: 1,289 ★★★★
    No, doing rankups and sig as normal
    GroundedWisdom said:

    I'm not arguing for any system, and I've stated as much. What I'm voicing is that it's not a fair assessment to say it's a cake walk for the people who are genuinely at that stage in the game. I think that's a bit trite.

    GroundedWisdom said:

    I'm not arguing for any system, and I've stated as much. What I'm voicing is that it's not a fair assessment to say it's a cake walk for the people who are genuinely at that stage in the game. I think that's a bit trite.

    That's fair but there were many people who got to GC in a week or even less. Anyone who accomplished that I think we can agree would consider the VT a cake walk. Now if you have the fattest Paragon account in the game and there literally aren't enough accounts that game could find to actually compete against you, that's one thing. But if you had a smaller account and the game never threw significantly stronger rosters at you in an attempt to slow you down, I would consider that a failure.
  • Options
    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,687 Guardian
    GroundedWisdom said:

    That's the problem. Easier for YOU, with your knowledge and experience, is not easier for someone else. That was my whole point about people making Alts and calling that proof that it's easier. That doesn't speak for everyone else at that level. I really wish people would look past their own nose on this.

    Everyone has different skill and experience levels. Should we also match based on account lifetime? Quest fights? Why is it fair that *I* can take my Cav alt against other Cav accounts?

    My Cav alt was fortunate enough to pull Hulkling. He's almost an automatic win in the lower ranks. Is that fair? Maybe there should be a Hulkling division of BG.

    No two people are exactly equally strong. In literally *every* Battlegrounds match up, *someone* has an advantage. In my experience, more than half of all match ups end up moderately to significantly unbalanced. Someone clearly has the stronger roster. Someone clearly has greater experience (you can tell just by watching them draft whether they know what they are doing, whether they understand how the champions work).

    "Fair" does not mean "equal." If it did, no competition would ever be fair. All competitions place *boundaries* around the competition that enclose the boundaries of fairness. You must operate within those boundaries to be a fair competitor. But within those boundaries, advantages and disadvantages are fair.

    How you choose those boundaries determines whether anyone else wants to play your game. If your definition of "fair" is "higher roster is unfair, higher skill level is unfair, higher experience is unfair, higher knowledge base is unfair" then what is the competition even for? Just flip a coin to determine the winner. That's the ultimate fairness. Everyone has a 50% chance to win.

    Except that's not what competitions are about. All competitors know this. If someone knows more than you and wins, they won fairly on the basis of their superior knowledge. If someone has practiced a fight more often than you and wins, they won fairly on the basis of their superior experience.

    If we are going to spoon feed players "equal" matches, they are not competing anymore. Well, they might be competing with those individual hand-picked opponents, but they aren't competing with me, nor anyone else outside of that pool of players. And if that pool of players all playing with each other and no one else is just a bunch of Uncollected players, they do not deserve anything other than UC-tier rewards for their efforts.

    If it is fair for UC players to beat up UC players and get the same *or superior* rewards as Paragon players, why isn't if fair for UC players completing UC tier EQ to get Paragon-tier rewards. After all, UC beating UC tier content is just as hard as Paragon beating Paragon-tier content, right? In fact, I suppose they should get more rewards, because UC beating UC tier is harder than a Paragon beating TB tier.

    Again, I don't personally want this. But the logical conclusion of your version of "fairness" (and my keyboard doesn't contain enough quotes for that) is UC fights UC, and gets UC rewards *only*. Cav fights Cav, and gets Cav rewards *only*. TBs fight TBs, but they get the TB rewards. Paragons fight Paragons, but they get the Paragon rewards.

    Maybe if we *threaten* the UCs, Cavs, and TBs with this, they will help us stamp out this nonsense.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,249 ★★★★★
    No, doing rankups and sig as normal
    Oh, I don't dispute that people have a range of skills and abilities. That's why you've seen *some* Accounts that are lower rise, and not all.
    However, there is a distinct difference between someone who has 5....6....7 years of experience in the game, and creates an Alt. They can't speak to how easy it is for people at that level. A Paragon that makes an Alt is not the same statement for a Cav that is genuinely at the Cav level, or further down. That's more than just the average variation of skillsets at that level. That's my point.
    I've been here for 7 years. I could go back and start an Account (which I'm not, personal preference), and advance marvelously given my current knowledge and experience. I can't speak for how easy it is for Players at that level because I'm not a Player at that level. I'm an experienced Player with an Account at that level.
  • Options
    K00shMaanK00shMaan Posts: 1,289 ★★★★
    No, doing rankups and sig as normal
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Oh, I don't dispute that people have a range of skills and abilities. That's why you've seen *some* Accounts that are lower rise, and not all.
    However, there is a distinct difference between someone who has 5....6....7 years of experience in the game, and creates an Alt. They can't speak to how easy it is for people at that level. A Paragon that makes an Alt is not the same statement for a Cav that is genuinely at the Cav level, or further down. That's more than just the average variation of skillsets at that level. That's my point.
    I've been here for 7 years. I could go back and start an Account (which I'm not, personal preference), and advance marvelously given my current knowledge and experience. I can't speak for how easy it is for Players at that level because I'm not a Player at that level. I'm an experienced Player with an Account at that level.

    But should an experienced player have an easier time progressing with an Alt or his Super Stacked Main account. The foundation of the game is built around the latter being true but there is ample evidence that this isn't the case.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,249 ★★★★★
    No, doing rankups and sig as normal
    K00shMaan said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Oh, I don't dispute that people have a range of skills and abilities. That's why you've seen *some* Accounts that are lower rise, and not all.
    However, there is a distinct difference between someone who has 5....6....7 years of experience in the game, and creates an Alt. They can't speak to how easy it is for people at that level. A Paragon that makes an Alt is not the same statement for a Cav that is genuinely at the Cav level, or further down. That's more than just the average variation of skillsets at that level. That's my point.
    I've been here for 7 years. I could go back and start an Account (which I'm not, personal preference), and advance marvelously given my current knowledge and experience. I can't speak for how easy it is for Players at that level because I'm not a Player at that level. I'm an experienced Player with an Account at that level.

    But should an experienced player have an easier time progressing with an Alt or his Super Stacked Main account. The foundation of the game is built around the latter being true but there is ample evidence that this isn't the case.
    Define easier. Ideally, you should have progress accelerate at the beginning, level out and slow down at the top. Best example I can give for this is Diablo 3. The higher you go, the more Exp it takes to level up. Now, that's a loose comparison to this game, but it displays what I'm taking about.
    Let's take the opposite. Create a game that makes the highest and largest hurdles in the beginning, and accelerates growth as you go up. What do you have? I've described it before as a perpetual motion machine, and that's exactly what it is. The more momentum it gains, the more momentum it generates.
    Why is this damaging? It creates a vacuum. People may manage to grow past a certain point in the beginning, but they will never progress anywhere significant because those further ahead are continuing to grow faster and faster. It's impossible to get past a certain point. The system doesn't allow it.
    Now, it's not that cut-and-dry in this game, and I agree that too much Rewards at the wrong stage is more damaging than beneficial. I would be a fool to argue the contrary. In terms of progress models, the top is supposed to progress slower, not faster.
  • Options
    World EaterWorld Eater Posts: 3,573 ★★★★★
    No, doing rankups and sig as normal
    Chatterofforums said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Let me interject before my comment becomes a back-and-forth.
    They are not getting an easy street to the GC. We've even had Players in other Threads indicate they've made it there on skill, and encountered tougher Accounts than theirs. They were scoffed at and told to enjoy their "fair" Rewards. Yet because they never fought the highest Accounts, they don't deserve to get to the actual competitive start? Let's be real. The GC is where it begins. Not where only the elite belong.
    This is the problem with the assumptions made about other Accounts. Everyone is so hyperfocused on other Accounts, through their own eyes, that they claim they can speak for what's easy and what's not, for others.
    You have people with years of experience in the game creating Alts and calling it easy, which is not a testament to how it is for someone at that stage. It's a testament to how it is for someone going back with all the knowledge and skill they have, and playing an easier part of the game FOR THEM. Not to mention how this skews the data.
    The idea that people aren't being challenged to get to the GC just because comparatively they would die against much larger Accounts is quite frankly, ignorant and arrogant. It's also blind to what is a challenge for others, and what is just absurd butchering.
    I will adamantly disagree with the implication that people aren't being challenged to get out of the VT, just because they haven't been overkilled by the largest Accounts. Especially when the largest Accounts consider it an injustice to go against equal or stronger Accounts. That's what the whole Paragon in name comment was about. People want the Title and all the Rewards, but they want to piggy back on the weaker Accounts instead of fighting other Paragons. Please.

    For the I don't know how many time, there were literally UC players with 5k prestige who were in GC within 1-2 weeks. They got all victory track rewards and at least some GC rewards.

    There were 15-16k prestige players who couldn't get out of victory track because they fought nothing but end game players with elite end game rosters. A UC fighting a UC won't be a major roster difference and many UC aren't great at the game so a slightly above average UC will get to GC fairly easy.

    Pretty much everyone at Paragon is at least above average, and many are among the absolutely best I'm the game with the absolute best rosters in the game. At Paragon level and above average players with even an average Paragon rosters or low Paragon roster will get destroyed. They will have very little chance to make it to GC. Best case is they wait until last week and hope all the end game, whales and master alliance players are already in GC. Meanwhile, that 5k UC dude been chilling in GC for weeks.

    I will NEVER agree that a weaker roster should get better rewards in rank tier rewards system UNLESS that weaker roster faces or has ability to face the stronger roster. If a lower player and in many cases waaaaay lower players can't beat me, but is in tier where slightly above average gets them to GC, how can you justify them then getting better rewards than end gamers with 15k+ prestige who that much weaker roster never has to face in victory track?

    I've asked you this question a dozen times on several threads and you've never given me anything close to a decent answer.
    You’re wasting your time. Ignore it.
  • Options
    L1zardW1zardL1zardW1zard Posts: 144 ★★★
    Yes, am now avoiding ranking up or using sig on on prestige champs
    Chatterofforums said:

    L1zardW1zard said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    L1zardW1zard said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    L1zardW1zard said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Let me interject before my comment becomes a back-and-forth.
    They are not getting an easy street to the GC. We've even had Players in other Threads indicate they've made it there on skill, and encountered tougher Accounts than theirs. They were scoffed at and told to enjoy their "fair" Rewards. Yet because they never fought the highest Accounts, they don't deserve to get to the actual competitive start? Let's be real. The GC is where it begins. Not where only the elite belong.
    This is the problem with the assumptions made about other Accounts. Everyone is so hyperfocused on other Accounts, through their own eyes, that they claim they can speak for what's easy and what's not, for others.
    You have people with years of experience in the game creating Alts and calling it easy, which is not a testament to how it is for someone at that stage. It's a testament to how it is for someone going back with all the knowledge and skill they have, and playing an easier part of the game FOR THEM. Not to mention how this skews the data.
    The idea that people aren't being challenged to get to the GC just because comparatively they would die against much larger Accounts is quite frankly, ignorant and arrogant. It's also blind to what is a challenge for others, and what is just absurd butchering.
    I will adamantly disagree with the implication that people aren't being challenged to get out of the VT, just because they haven't been overkilled by the largest Accounts. Especially when the largest Accounts consider it an injustice to go against equal or stronger Accounts. That's what the whole Paragon in name comment was about. People want the Title and all the Rewards, but they want to piggy back on the weaker Accounts instead of fighting other Paragons. Please.

    For the I don't know how many time, there were literally UC players with 5k prestige who were in GC within 1-2 weeks. They got all victory track rewards and at least some GC rewards.

    There were 15-16k prestige players who couldn't get out of victory track because they fought nothing but end game players with elite end game rosters. A UC fighting a UC won't be a major roster difference and many UC aren't great at the game so a slightly above average UC will get to GC fairly easy.

    Pretty much everyone at Paragon is at least above average, and many are among the absolutely best I'm the game with the absolute best rosters in the game. At Paragon level and above average players with even an average Paragon rosters or low Paragon roster will get destroyed. They will have very little chance to make it to GC. Best case is they wait until last week and hope all the end game, whales and master alliance players are already in GC. Meanwhile, that 5k UC dude been chilling in GC for weeks.

    I will NEVER agree that a weaker roster should get better rewards in rank tier rewards system UNLESS that weaker roster faces or has ability to face the stronger roster. If a lower player and in many cases waaaaay lower players can't beat me, but is in tier where slightly above average gets them to GC, how can you justify them then getting better rewards than end gamers with 15k+ prestige who that much weaker roster never has to face in victory track?

    I've asked you this question a dozen times on several threads and you've never given me anything close to a decent answer.
    I find it funny how a few months ago when sandbagging was still a thing, you were telling people who were complaining about it to stop complaining about it cause you were sick of seeing threads about sandbagging everywhere and now you're doing it too lmao. I haven't seen anyone on these forums complain about matchmaking as much as you have lately, and you may be right but you deserve a little taste so next time people complain about something you don't just try to shut them up.
    Seems kinda odd though that you were against sandbagging getting fixed, and now you're complaining because lower accounts were avoiding you 100% while you were stuck on gold. Not saying this is how it should be, in fact I want completely random matchmaking too... but it does seem like you have a little skill issue going on there pal.
    I didn't say I was against sandbagging emding then. I never was pro sandbagging. But yes, I was annoying when 7 new threads a day complaining about sandbagging came up in forums. Relook at the threads, back then I was saying the EXACT same thing as I am now. Which is when everyone is fighting for same rewards, then everyone in that tier should eligible tonight each other and that prestige and pi should play NO role in matchmaking.

    I said multiple times that sandbagging would become non-existent if they were to take pi or prestige out of the matchmaking process which is 100 percent true.

    I was 100 percent positive then that this would be their solution which I knew would be far worse for many players. Also, I made one thread 3 weeks ago at the start of when notice how bad it was and now at.the near end of season I did a poll. Nowhere close.to the same.thing nor has my message changed once.

    Additionally, the still in gold post was over 3 weeks ago and was referencing it due to being in GC within days the previous seasons. Within a couple.days of that post I was in GC. I have hundreds of videos to show I don't have a skill issue, do you?

    Just like the video I did to show some.of the accounts in GC as low as 5k prestige, it's about fairness and not punishing people for continuing to develop their roster. You should really do a better job at reading before calling people out.
    You're literally on every single post about BGs matchmaking I've seen so far complaining, not all the threads are yours but you're complaining about it on other people's posts regardless. I'm just saying, next time, don't tell people to stop complaining about an issue on the forums when you even made a whole video complaining about an issue yourself.

    I don't, and if I'm trash I don't care it's just a game. Some of you take this game way too seriously lmao I didn't care about sandbagging, I don't care about this either, I just play the game. I sure as hell don't go telling people to stop complaining about game issues though.

    I don't need to read anything else, you're a hypocrite lol.
    I never told people to stop complaining, I would inform them that multiple threads already existed in the subject and no need for new ones several times every single day.

    But I am on each of these threads I see as those who kept throwing temper tantrums about sandbagging (which again for the record I never agreed with) is what led to the change that cause the current issue that is negatively effecting the stronger accounts while lower accounts get smoother path to better rewards without facing the higher tiers opponents.

    I will continue to comment on these threads as long as this is an issue. This might not be resolved as quick as the fix for sandbagging (which led to this disaster of a system) but eventually they will realize this is exact mistake they made when they did prestige AW matchmaking. I want to ensure they continue to hear the issues in the meantime.

    Before referring to my previous posts, you really should go back and reread as you keep stating incorrect information that I never said. I'm not sure if your a very poor reader or just a selectively poor memory, but if your going to try and blast people with what you claim they have said, at least be correct on what your claiming they said.
    No, you told people to stop making threads about it because you were sick of seeing them. I am also sick of seeing you complain about this because there's also many threads on this topic.

    And now you're throwing temper tantrums too. The tables have turned, have fun throwing temper tantrums because you have to face Paragons only now!

    Like I said, I don't need to go back to read anything cause I saw you telling people to stop posting threads multiple times. It doesn't matter if the reason was because there were too many threads or whatever lol keep trying to deflect, very sad attempts.
    Your a really angry person aren't you? Seem so overly aggressive for so little reason. Anyway, there were 5+ threads a days for weeks on sandbagging. I haven't seen even 5 threads on this exact subject in the past month, big difference.

    No point on going back and forth with you, as really seems like you got bigger issues going on with such levels of hostility.
    Angry for calling out the hypocrisy coming from you? Lmao sure pal you keep telling yourself that alright? I'm sure it'll help you sleep at night.

    No, if anything that just means sandbagging was that much of an issue for the majority of the playerbase, hence so many different people were making threads about it and since you claim there's been less than 5 complaints about BGs matchmaking this past month that means it's more of a you problem, a skill one perhaps? Lol.
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    K00shMaanK00shMaan Posts: 1,289 ★★★★
    No, doing rankups and sig as normal
    GroundedWisdom said:

    K00shMaan said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Oh, I don't dispute that people have a range of skills and abilities. That's why you've seen *some* Accounts that are lower rise, and not all.
    However, there is a distinct difference between someone who has 5....6....7 years of experience in the game, and creates an Alt. They can't speak to how easy it is for people at that level. A Paragon that makes an Alt is not the same statement for a Cav that is genuinely at the Cav level, or further down. That's more than just the average variation of skillsets at that level. That's my point.
    I've been here for 7 years. I could go back and start an Account (which I'm not, personal preference), and advance marvelously given my current knowledge and experience. I can't speak for how easy it is for Players at that level because I'm not a Player at that level. I'm an experienced Player with an Account at that level.

    But should an experienced player have an easier time progressing with an Alt or his Super Stacked Main account. The foundation of the game is built around the latter being true but there is ample evidence that this isn't the case.
    Define easier. Ideally, you should have progress accelerate at the beginning, level out and slow down at the top. Best example I can give for this is Diablo 3. The higher you go, the more Exp it takes to level up. Now, that's a loose comparison to this game, but it displays what I'm taking about.
    Let's take the opposite. Create a game that makes the highest and largest hurdles in the beginning, and accelerates growth as you go up. What do you have? I've described it before as a perpetual motion machine, and that's exactly what it is. The more momentum it gains, the more momentum it generates.
    Why is this damaging? It creates a vacuum. People may manage to grow past a certain point in the beginning, but they will never progress anywhere significant because those further ahead are continuing to grow faster and faster. It's impossible to get past a certain point. The system doesn't allow it.
    Now, it's not that cut-and-dry in this game, and I agree that too much Rewards at the wrong stage is more damaging than beneficial. I would be a fool to argue the contrary. In terms of progress models, the top is supposed to progress slower, not faster.
    What an awful analogy. The resource you're getting is Experience in that case. It doesn't get more difficult to get experience from leveling up your character. The difference is you need more experience to have a marginal effect. Comparing that to BG's, I shouldn't have more difficulty acquiring BG Tokens. Just that the effect that they will have on my roster becomes less and less significant.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,249 ★★★★★
    No, doing rankups and sig as normal
    K00shMaan said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    K00shMaan said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Oh, I don't dispute that people have a range of skills and abilities. That's why you've seen *some* Accounts that are lower rise, and not all.
    However, there is a distinct difference between someone who has 5....6....7 years of experience in the game, and creates an Alt. They can't speak to how easy it is for people at that level. A Paragon that makes an Alt is not the same statement for a Cav that is genuinely at the Cav level, or further down. That's more than just the average variation of skillsets at that level. That's my point.
    I've been here for 7 years. I could go back and start an Account (which I'm not, personal preference), and advance marvelously given my current knowledge and experience. I can't speak for how easy it is for Players at that level because I'm not a Player at that level. I'm an experienced Player with an Account at that level.

    But should an experienced player have an easier time progressing with an Alt or his Super Stacked Main account. The foundation of the game is built around the latter being true but there is ample evidence that this isn't the case.
    Define easier. Ideally, you should have progress accelerate at the beginning, level out and slow down at the top. Best example I can give for this is Diablo 3. The higher you go, the more Exp it takes to level up. Now, that's a loose comparison to this game, but it displays what I'm taking about.
    Let's take the opposite. Create a game that makes the highest and largest hurdles in the beginning, and accelerates growth as you go up. What do you have? I've described it before as a perpetual motion machine, and that's exactly what it is. The more momentum it gains, the more momentum it generates.
    Why is this damaging? It creates a vacuum. People may manage to grow past a certain point in the beginning, but they will never progress anywhere significant because those further ahead are continuing to grow faster and faster. It's impossible to get past a certain point. The system doesn't allow it.
    Now, it's not that cut-and-dry in this game, and I agree that too much Rewards at the wrong stage is more damaging than beneficial. I would be a fool to argue the contrary. In terms of progress models, the top is supposed to progress slower, not faster.
    What an awful analogy. The resource you're getting is Experience in that case. It doesn't get more difficult to get experience from leveling up your character. The difference is you need more experience to have a marginal effect. Comparing that to BG's, I shouldn't have more difficulty acquiring BG Tokens. Just that the effect that they will have on my roster becomes less and less significant.
    You're asking me if I think the top Players should progress faster. I'm talking about overall progress and the effect of the Rewards they earn.
    Do I feel that Players with more experience should advance faster in BGs? Not at the expense of overpowering people who don't stand a chance to win. That's the whole issue I've maintained. Several suggestions have been made to balance this, and I'm all ears. My question is, why does one principle override the other? Why can't both be valid? That's the issue I see with these discussions. One side versus the other. Both are valid concerns to me. I just don't appreciate watching people be raked over the coals for playing their best in the system as it is. They're being accused of stealing Rewards, and gaining a manipulated advantage, and that's not how we've arrived here.
    We've arrived here because people have taken competitiveness to such an extreme that they manipulated the Matchmaking into easier Matches. And here we are with people arguing that the Rewards justify allowing that through the system itself.
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,687 Guardian
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Define easier.

    If I had to guess, I would guess I fought at least 200 matches. Maybe more. I ended up in P2. There are Uncollected players that reached GT in about a hundred matches.

    That's easier.


    GroundedWisdom said:

    Ideally, you should have progress accelerate at the beginning, level out and slow down at the top. Best example I can give for this is Diablo 3. The higher you go, the more Exp it takes to level up.

    That comparison does not work here. In Diablo, and in the typical MMO, and even here, *progress* is managed that way. The higher you go, the harder it is to get higher. But *rewards* are not. In no game do you get the best rewards at the beginning, and worse rewards at the end. Nobody gets the top raid gear for killing a million rats in World of Warcraft, even if killing a million rats is just as hard for a new player as defeating the top raid boss is for veteran players. It literally doesn't matter.

    Although we call moving through the tracks "progress" that's not really the same thing. Here, track progress is really just unlocking more rewards. It is no more progress than getting tomorrows rewards in the calendar is progress. It isn't game account progress. Stronger roster accounts get to do higher tier AQ maps and as a result get more rewards. This is entirely non-controversial. Stronger roster accounts generally win more wars and end up in higher war tiers, where they match against stronger opponents but also get more season points. This is also considered entirely normal. But when Paragon accounts have to fight the equivalent of tier 1 battleground matches and end up with Bronze caliber season rewards, and that isn't because of a catastrophic failure of participation or lack of skill, that's not the same thing as a progress ladder effect.

    I believe any professional game designer would be embarrassed to claim before an audience of their peers that their veteran players were falling behind their lower progress players in a straight up competitive game mode because that's how game progress worked in their game. That's just not supposed to happen. And I dare any professional game designer of any game to claim it should.
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    phillgreenphillgreen Posts: 3,685 ★★★★★
    I have never ranked for prestige but this season taught me my 6r1 and 5r4 at the bottom end of my deck aren't good enough.

    I made it GC on the final day and 5 wins cost me a fortune in those shield things.

    My alt and my "vast experience after 7 years" got nowhere because having 8 good champs with three 6r3, and the rest of the account is a few 4r5 and a bunch of unleveled 5 and 6 stars means I got roasted in every draft.

    Would've been a good sandbaggers deck though.
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