Battlegrounds is so easy why do you need it to match prestige levels, if your good at the game and you know which champs will work as defenders or attackers, then you will win mathces. And even if you lose you can just play again.
Because most high prestige players do know the game as well. And in that case your win depends only on roster size and draft luck. In lower tiers you need none of those. So basically lots of people play the game on harder mode while getting less rewards for a competitive tournament. If you indeed wonder, why people are not happy, and not satisfied with my answer, feel free to read the thread, as you obviously have not yet
People with lower Prestige are playing the same competition. It still depends on size and draft luck, as well as performance. They're not playing an entirely different game.
Sure we are all fighting the same competition EXCEPT t's exactly opposite to that. The weaker accounts are competing against weaker accounts and stronger accounts are playing against the best players accounts in the game, please explain to me how that is the same competition (other than the weaker getting same or better rewards than those stronger).
Battlegrounds is so easy why do you need it to match prestige levels, if your good at the game and you know which champs will work as defenders or attackers, then you will win mathces. And even if you lose you can just play again.
Because most high prestige players do know the game as well. And in that case your win depends only on roster size and draft luck. In lower tiers you need none of those. So basically lots of people play the game on harder mode while getting less rewards for a competitive tournament. If you indeed wonder, why people are not happy, and not satisfied with my answer, feel free to read the thread, as you obviously have not yet
People with lower Prestige are playing the same competition. It still depends on size and draft luck, as well as performance. They're not playing an entirely different game.
Sure we are all fighting the same competition EXCEPT t's exactly opposite to that. The weaker accounts are competing against weaker accounts and stronger accounts are playing against the best players accounts in the game, please explain to me how that is the same competition (other than the weaker getting same or better rewards than those stronger).
I've already pointed out my view on that one. The stronger Accounts are using comparatively stronger Accounts to fight them. People still refuse to acknowledge that aspect.
Battlegrounds is so easy why do you need it to match prestige levels, if your good at the game and you know which champs will work as defenders or attackers, then you will win mathces. And even if you lose you can just play again.
Because most high prestige players do know the game as well. And in that case your win depends only on roster size and draft luck. In lower tiers you need none of those. So basically lots of people play the game on harder mode while getting less rewards for a competitive tournament. If you indeed wonder, why people are not happy, and not satisfied with my answer, feel free to read the thread, as you obviously have not yet
People with lower Prestige are playing the same competition. It still depends on size and draft luck, as well as performance. They're not playing an entirely different game.
Sure we are all fighting the same competition EXCEPT t's exactly opposite to that. The weaker accounts are competing against weaker accounts and stronger accounts are playing against the best players accounts in the game, please explain to me how that is the same competition (other than the weaker getting same or better rewards than those stronger).
I've already pointed out my view on that one. The stronger Accounts are using comparatively stronger Accounts to fight them. People still refuse to acknowledge that aspect.
I don't think anyone has refused to acknowledge that. I certainly haven't at least.
I have however pointed out how the margin of error is razor thin when the top tier are playing the top tier.
We have two minutes to fight. The goal is to end with the most Points. There are 3 sources for Points. Health remaining, Health taken, Fight duration. The margin for error is the same for everyone. I realize you're talking about very little room to screw up, but that doesn't just apply to the top. No matter how you look at it, we're all being measured with the same ruler.
We have two minutes to fight. The goal is to end with the most Points. There are 3 sources for Points. Health remaining, Health taken, Fight duration. The margin for error is the same for everyone. I realize you're talking about very little room to screw up, but that doesn't just apply to the top. No matter how you look at it, we're all being measured with the same ruler.
When you go against weaker and less skilled players, then taking a combo to the face isn't the end of the world. However against top players, 1 combo to the face means you're definitely losing that round. The margin of error you can have is very slim. I've had many matches where the winner wins by 40 points. 40 points are easily lost by missing one parry and taking a blocked hit without enough time left for willpower to bring you back.
We have two minutes to fight. The goal is to end with the most Points. There are 3 sources for Points. Health remaining, Health taken, Fight duration. The margin for error is the same for everyone. I realize you're talking about very little room to screw up, but that doesn't just apply to the top. No matter how you look at it, we're all being measured with the same ruler.
Yeah I have to disagree with you here and agree with pikolu. I have lost countless matches by 200-10 points and I can guarantee you that the point difference is lower in matches between smaller accounts.
If you are both top tier accounts that means you have been playing this game for a long time and have acquired skill to play champions in the optimal way and end fights the fastest. In this meta you know you have to score more than 45k points to win and a lot of the times 50k+. This means the slightest time asted baiting or missing a parry and taking a block hit can be enough to make you lose.
We have two minutes to fight. The goal is to end with the most Points. There are 3 sources for Points. Health remaining, Health taken, Fight duration. The margin for error is the same for everyone. I realize you're talking about very little room to screw up, but that doesn't just apply to the top. No matter how you look at it, we're all being measured with the same ruler.
Yeah I have to disagree with you here and agree with pikolu. I have lost countless matches by 200-10 points and I can guarantee you that the point difference is lower in matches between smaller accounts.
If you are both top tier accounts that means you have been playing this game for a long time and have acquired skill to play champions in the optimal way and end fights the fastest. In this meta you know you have to score more than 45k points to win and a lot of the times 50k+. This means the slightest time asted baiting or missing a parry and taking a block hit can be enough to make you lose.
To demonstrate your point, I will provide the following screenshot:
This was a fight from earlier this week against another Paragon within ~100 points of my prestige. My fight was as clean as I could hope for against a R4 max sig Overseer. I had one instance where my Sp1 input failed me with 3 Busted debuffs up, which cost me an opportunity to convert them to incinerates. I had to build them again, running the match several seconds longer.
That’s basically the margin. Got the KO, wound up with 100% health. Lost on fight time from a single, small hiccup.
And that’s not unusual for fights to be that tight at this level.
We have two minutes to fight. The goal is to end with the most Points. There are 3 sources for Points. Health remaining, Health taken, Fight duration. The margin for error is the same for everyone. I realize you're talking about very little room to screw up, but that doesn't just apply to the top. No matter how you look at it, we're all being measured with the same ruler.
Yeah I have to disagree with you here and agree with pikolu. I have lost countless matches by 200-10 points and I can guarantee you that the point difference is lower in matches between smaller accounts.
If you are both top tier accounts that means you have been playing this game for a long time and have acquired skill to play champions in the optimal way and end fights the fastest. In this meta you know you have to score more than 45k points to win and a lot of the times 50k+. This means the slightest time asted baiting or missing a parry and taking a block hit can be enough to make you lose.
To demonstrate your point, I will provide the following screenshot:
This was a fight from earlier this week against another Paragon within ~100 points of my prestige. My fight was as clean as I could hope for against a R4 max sig Overseer. I had one instance where my Sp1 input failed me with 3 Busted debuffs up, which cost me an opportunity to convert them to incinerates. I had to build them again, running the match several seconds longer.
That’s basically the margin. Got the KO, wound up with 100% health. Lost on fight time from a single, small hiccup.
And that’s not unusual for fights to be that tight at this level.
Dr. Zola
Clearly, you just have to get better and increase your understanding of the game.
We have two minutes to fight. The goal is to end with the most Points. There are 3 sources for Points. Health remaining, Health taken, Fight duration. The margin for error is the same for everyone. I realize you're talking about very little room to screw up, but that doesn't just apply to the top. No matter how you look at it, we're all being measured with the same ruler.
Yeah I have to disagree with you here and agree with pikolu. I have lost countless matches by 200-10 points and I can guarantee you that the point difference is lower in matches between smaller accounts.
If you are both top tier accounts that means you have been playing this game for a long time and have acquired skill to play champions in the optimal way and end fights the fastest. In this meta you know you have to score more than 45k points to win and a lot of the times 50k+. This means the slightest time asted baiting or missing a parry and taking a block hit can be enough to make you lose.
To demonstrate your point, I will provide the following screenshot:
This was a fight from earlier this week against another Paragon within ~100 points of my prestige. My fight was as clean as I could hope for against a R4 max sig Overseer. I had one instance where my Sp1 input failed me with 3 Busted debuffs up, which cost me an opportunity to convert them to incinerates. I had to build them again, running the match several seconds longer.
That’s basically the margin. Got the KO, wound up with 100% health. Lost on fight time from a single, small hiccup.
And that’s not unusual for fights to be that tight at this level.
Dr. Zola
I have countless of screenshots from when I was stuck in bronze 3 for a while where the difference was litterally 40 points. I was stuck in Bronze 3, as a paragon, while EVERY past season I cruised to gold 1 easily. But yeah we all agreed mathcmaking needs a change, even Groundedwisdom so I'm just repeating myself at this point.
It all boils down to how punishing this meta is for higher accounts and that's what is causing a lot of frustration. Especially when the higher accounts see lower accounts cruising past them because they have way more margin of error in their fights.
@QuikPik and @Ironman3000 maybe someone on forums threads can give me some advice.
Dr. Zola
Sorry, I'm still trying to figure it out myself. Don't worry, there is a very educated Cav out there who is willing to give you free advice about it, even if you don't ask for it.
We have two minutes to fight. The goal is to end with the most Points. There are 3 sources for Points. Health remaining, Health taken, Fight duration. The margin for error is the same for everyone. I realize you're talking about very little room to screw up, but that doesn't just apply to the top. No matter how you look at it, we're all being measured with the same ruler.
Yeah I have to disagree with you here and agree with pikolu. I have lost countless matches by 200-10 points and I can guarantee you that the point difference is lower in matches between smaller accounts.
If you are both top tier accounts that means you have been playing this game for a long time and have acquired skill to play champions in the optimal way and end fights the fastest. In this meta you know you have to score more than 45k points to win and a lot of the times 50k+. This means the slightest time asted baiting or missing a parry and taking a block hit can be enough to make you lose.
Yes, and that difference can happen at any level. I'm not a clod. I get what you're saying. I'm saying people don't get any added Points for that. It's the same scoring for everyone. You can argue that top Matches are "tougher", but on paper, it's literally the same objective. Gain more Points through the same metrics with the same Nodes. If anything, the argument is that it's easier for people because they have that experience. This isn't about the Matches for the majority. This is about being offended that lower Players are in the same Reward system.
@GroundedWisdom up to which tier are you happy for pure competition to take over?
By pure competition, I mean random matchmaking within the tier.
Personally? I'd say the entire VT. The actual competitive aspect starts in the GC for Rank Rewards. However, for the purpose of these discussions, and for the sake of making sure people weren't bashed about, I'd say the first 2 or 3 perhaps. Until Gold 3 or Plat 3.
Wow this thread keeps on going.. My 2 cents.. The pace of the game has picked up, to almost overdrive... 1- have u guys noticed not placing anymore in the same rank bracket after a level up event? 2- A lot of broad rosters are just opening feature crystals cause the basic pool offers nothing... 3- The price of 6" sig stones are low.. so while some lower progressions are all happy with their god tier 5* max sig.. others are getting max sig 6* 4- A lot more r4 mats.. r5s are a thing now too..
Conclusion: UC, Cavs, new TB, middle of the pack TB, and Seasoned TBs.. The game is moving fast and people are just complaining about being matched with people with r4s instead of progressing... Also 7* are comming... Are they gonna complain then about having to face a roster with 2 or 3 7* ? People are looking at BGs as a fast track to get shards and champs.. wel that doesnt rank em up instantly.. Do your content, get to a progression level... Chances are the next progression level will show up soon and you will be constantly complaining about chasing a carrot...
We have two minutes to fight. The goal is to end with the most Points. There are 3 sources for Points. Health remaining, Health taken, Fight duration. The margin for error is the same for everyone. I realize you're talking about very little room to screw up, but that doesn't just apply to the top. No matter how you look at it, we're all being measured with the same ruler.
Yeah I have to disagree with you here and agree with pikolu. I have lost countless matches by 200-10 points and I can guarantee you that the point difference is lower in matches between smaller accounts.
If you are both top tier accounts that means you have been playing this game for a long time and have acquired skill to play champions in the optimal way and end fights the fastest. In this meta you know you have to score more than 45k points to win and a lot of the times 50k+. This means the slightest time asted baiting or missing a parry and taking a block hit can be enough to make you lose.
Yes, and that difference can happen at any level. I'm not a clod. I get what you're saying. I'm saying people don't get any added Points for that. It's the same scoring for everyone. You can argue that top Matches are "tougher", but on paper, it's literally the same objective. Gain more Points through the same metrics with the same Nodes. If anything, the argument is that it's easier for people because they have that experience. This isn't about the Matches for the majority. This is about being offended that lower Players are in the same Reward system. .
On paper it's the same objective but in reality it isn't. The argument that it's easier because people have experience is literally the opposite of the point I want to make. It's harder for people with more experience because they have less room for error.
I'm going to post my comment again which states what I think is the cause of the frustration in matchmaking for a lot of players;
"I have countless of screenshots from when I was stuck in bronze 3 for a while where the difference was litterally 40 points. I was stuck in Bronze 3, as a paragon, while EVERY past season I cruised to gold 1 easily. But yeah we all agreed mathcmaking needs a change, even Groundedwisdom so I'm just repeating myself at this point.
It all boils down to how punishing this meta is for higher accounts and that's what is causing a lot of frustration. Especially when the higher accounts see lower accounts cruising past them because they have way more margin of error in their fights."
This is literally the core of the situation in my opinion. We can keep arguing whatever we want on this topic but this is it. And you agreed that matchmaking has to change. I agree that protection for smaller players up until silver 1/ gold 3 could be useful so that they don't feel left out.
Update: Finally got to GC! However, I can't win a single match there. I mean I would understand being stuck there by winning a couple then losing the points but no. Cant win a single one. All the more reason for Kabam to make changes. Let's hope it gets better after the changes
Do you want to say that people who can't win a single match in competitive mode shouldn't get that high? Because that would totally fix your issue, and personally I'm all for fair open matchmaking since day 1 for every bracket
Update: Finally got to GC! However, I can't win a single match there. I mean I would understand being stuck there by winning a couple then losing the points but no. Cant win a single one. All the more reason for Kabam to make changes. Let's hope it gets better after the changes
Meanwhile I'm still in gold with 16.4 prestige and your in GC (as every fight is against one of the top players in the game), likely much higher than you should be based on favorable matchmaking for you, and your complaining about not being able to win a match there. You are absolutely correct matchmaking needs fixing, but pretty much the opposite of what you think needs fixing.
Update: Finally got to GC! However, I can't win a single match there. I mean I would understand being stuck there by winning a couple then losing the points but no. Cant win a single one. All the more reason for Kabam to make changes. Let's hope it gets better after the changes
if you can’t win a singe GC match then you don’t deserve to be there. Enjoy the hard fought rewards you’ve been gifted.
Update: Finally got to GC! However, I can't win a single match there. I mean I would understand being stuck there by winning a couple then losing the points but no. Cant win a single one. All the more reason for Kabam to make changes. Let's hope it gets better after the changes
if you can’t win a singe GC match then you don’t deserve to be there. Enjoy the hard fought rewards you’ve been gifted.
No, it means I'm just at where I belong. And it doesn't mean the situation will continue like this. Right now the competition in GC is too high. Just so few accounts with the best of the best players there. As more people start ascending to GC, the average player skill will decrease and the matchups will get easier
No, it means that the matchmaking is broken and you've been promoted above your level of ability.
Update: Finally got to GC! However, I can't win a single match there. I mean I would understand being stuck there by winning a couple then losing the points but no. Cant win a single one. All the more reason for Kabam to make changes. Let's hope it gets better after the changes
if you can’t win a singe GC match then you don’t deserve to be there. Enjoy the hard fought rewards you’ve been gifted.
No, it means I'm just at where I belong. And it doesn't mean the situation will continue like this. Right now the competition in GC is too high. Just so few accounts with the best of the best players there. As more people start ascending to GC, the average player skill will decrease and the matchups will get easier
This is the dark side of allowing players to advance in VT by beating up lower opponents. Players start deciding the competition in GC is too high.
So how would you like to resolve that situation? Should we ask some of them to play with only one hand?
You're being matched against the weakest players in GC. How many of those matches do you believe you deserve to win, and how would you like Kabam to hand you those victories?
Victory track is a competition. It’s the part of the competition that allows us to get into the gladiators circuit. Much like in Football the Premier League is a competition. If you finish in the top 4 of the league you get into the Champions League, equivalent of Gladiators Circuit. Only in MCOC world the game is designed so the top 4 of the Championship, 1st Division and 2nd Division all get into the champions league as well, due to the argument we are all playing the same game, all winning or losing. But the teams playing in the lower leagues are entering the highest end competition with all the rewards and glory, when they likely wouldn’t be able to get a win all season against teams in the premier league.
So now we have division 2 teams in the champions league complaining because the are constantly matched against Real Madrid and can’t win. What do you expect?
Surely it’s a problem if you have uncollected level players get into Gladiators circuit in the first week, but then can’t win any other matches in the next 3 weeks because the fairer ELO matchmaking shows everyone currently in GC is difficult for them.
Wow! GroundedWisdom is getting ratioed to the point it seems they have hit the one subject that unites most the server against ‘em.
Kabam should take note that this isn’t a “universal agreement”, but the voices of the current BG matchmaking )even in VC) is not good.
If you want to “insulate” the smaller accounts, there should be brackets based on titles… (like anything Uncollected and Under, Cavalier/Thronebreaker, and then Paragon) and the awards should be appropriate for that progression in the game and to help them move to the next title.
You don’t take a little league team a match against a professional team. And the rewards for level of achievement shouldn’t out balance the account compared to the meta they are currently facing. It gives a false sense of accomplishment that then turns into entitlement that they deserve the same “handicap” when they hit the next level. By having brackets, people are well aware of what they are getting into. When they hit Cavalier/Thronebreaker, their roster should be pretty decent to compete, not to mention that their skill would put them on better footing with those level of players (though some time to adjust might still be needed).
Comments
I have however pointed out how the margin of error is razor thin when the top tier are playing the top tier.
You have refused to acknowledge that.
The margin for error is the same for everyone.
I realize you're talking about very little room to screw up, but that doesn't just apply to the top. No matter how you look at it, we're all being measured with the same ruler.
If you are both top tier accounts that means you have been playing this game for a long time and have acquired skill to play champions in the optimal way and end fights the fastest. In this meta you know you have to score more than 45k points to win and a lot of the times 50k+. This means the slightest time asted baiting or missing a parry and taking a block hit can be enough to make you lose.
By pure competition, I mean random matchmaking within the tier.
This was a fight from earlier this week against another Paragon within ~100 points of my prestige. My fight was as clean as I could hope for against a R4 max sig Overseer. I had one instance where my Sp1 input failed me with 3 Busted debuffs up, which cost me an opportunity to convert them to incinerates. I had to build them again, running the match several seconds longer.
That’s basically the margin. Got the KO, wound up with 100% health. Lost on fight time from a single, small hiccup.
And that’s not unusual for fights to be that tight at this level.
Dr. Zola
Dr. Zola
Focusing on fun still achieves the conceptual goals, but in a generally acceptable frame.
"Worthiness" for rewards will never yield a functional consensus opinion.
It all boils down to how punishing this meta is for higher accounts and that's what is causing a lot of frustration. Especially when the higher accounts see lower accounts cruising past them because they have way more margin of error in their fights.
However, for the purpose of these discussions, and for the sake of making sure people weren't bashed about, I'd say the first 2 or 3 perhaps. Until Gold 3 or Plat 3.
My 2 cents..
The pace of the game has picked up, to almost overdrive...
1- have u guys noticed not placing anymore in the same rank bracket after a level up event?
2- A lot of broad rosters are just opening feature crystals cause the basic pool offers nothing...
3- The price of 6" sig stones are low.. so while some lower progressions are all happy with their god tier 5* max sig.. others are getting max sig 6*
4- A lot more r4 mats.. r5s are a thing now too..
Conclusion: UC, Cavs, new TB, middle of the pack TB, and Seasoned TBs.. The game is moving fast and people are just complaining about being matched with people with r4s instead of progressing... Also 7* are comming... Are they gonna complain then about having to face a roster with 2 or 3 7* ?
People are looking at BGs as a fast track to get shards and champs.. wel that doesnt rank em up instantly.. Do your content, get to a progression level... Chances are the next progression level will show up soon and you will be constantly complaining about chasing a carrot...
These low skill first months paragons who need to get good at the game...
(Clearly skills not picked up and time not dedicated in game....while doing abyss, 100% act 7 and 8 and high level wars)
The community handing out skill lessons free of charge is so warming 😁
I'm going to post my comment again which states what I think is the cause of the frustration in matchmaking for a lot of players;
"I have countless of screenshots from when I was stuck in bronze 3 for a while where the difference was litterally 40 points. I was stuck in Bronze 3, as a paragon, while EVERY past season I cruised to gold 1 easily. But yeah we all agreed mathcmaking needs a change, even Groundedwisdom so I'm just repeating myself at this point.
It all boils down to how punishing this meta is for higher accounts and that's what is causing a lot of frustration. Especially when the higher accounts see lower accounts cruising past them because they have way more margin of error in their fights."
This is literally the core of the situation in my opinion. We can keep arguing whatever we want on this topic but this is it. And you agreed that matchmaking has to change. I agree that protection for smaller players up until silver 1/ gold 3 could be useful so that they don't feel left out.
So how would you like to resolve that situation? Should we ask some of them to play with only one hand?
You're being matched against the weakest players in GC. How many of those matches do you believe you deserve to win, and how would you like Kabam to hand you those victories?
So now we have division 2 teams in the champions league complaining because the are constantly matched against Real Madrid and can’t win. What do you expect?
Surely it’s a problem if you have uncollected level players get into Gladiators circuit in the first week, but then can’t win any other matches in the next 3 weeks because the fairer ELO matchmaking shows everyone currently in GC is difficult for them.
Kabam should take note that this isn’t a “universal agreement”, but the voices of the current BG matchmaking )even in VC) is not good.
If you want to “insulate” the smaller accounts, there should be brackets based on titles… (like anything Uncollected and Under, Cavalier/Thronebreaker, and then Paragon) and the awards should be appropriate for that progression in the game and to help them move to the next title.
You don’t take a little league team a match against a professional team. And the rewards for level of achievement shouldn’t out balance the account compared to the meta they are currently facing. It gives a false sense of accomplishment that then turns into entitlement that they deserve the same “handicap” when they hit the next level. By having brackets, people are well aware of what they are getting into. When they hit Cavalier/Thronebreaker, their roster should be pretty decent to compete, not to mention that their skill would put them on better footing with those level of players (though some time to adjust might still be needed).