Didn’t bother me too much, but I agree. Relics are not very accessible. I don’t even have 1,000 6 star relic shards from gladiators circuit. I think I have 3 5 star relics. I’ve been hunting a thor relic for the longest time. For Thronebreaker+, 3 and even 4 star relics should not be as uncommon as they are, in my opinion. Encouraging relic use is one thing, can even be a good thing. but adding gameplay restrictions that can only be worked around through the use of relics is not a good sign, and not the best way to go about it.
The change to relics being free to unbind makes the situation a lot better because you can unbind and rebind as much as you’d want for different champs tackling different paths.
It just seems like something that could become a hassle with changing relics every week or month for the specific SQ and could cost units depending the number of switches you’d need but ignoring the nodes is always an option since SQ fights aren’t usually too bad
Additionally, and we've talked about this before: Relics are feature that are available to those who want to use them and are ignorable for those who don't. These nodes don't force anyone to use them and doesn't punish you for not. Instead it incentivizes you to, and rewards those who elect, use relics. You don't have to play to this node, and it seems completely feasible that you can complete each fight without using relics.
They literally give you a 90% power reduction if you don't use them though.
It just seems like something that could become a hassle with changing relics every week or month for the specific SQ and could cost units depending the number of switches you’d need but ignoring the nodes is always an option since SQ fights aren’t usually too bad
Additionally, and we've talked about this before: Relics are feature that are available to those who want to use them and are ignorable for those who don't. These nodes don't force anyone to use them and doesn't punish you for not. Instead it incentivizes you to, and rewards those who elect, use relics. You don't have to play to this node, and it seems completely feasible that you can complete each fight without using relics.
They literally give you a 90% power reduction if you don't use them though.
Good point. The relic may not be mandatory but your hamstrung if you don't use it. I really don't want to have to move relics around to complete path. How is that fun?
It just seems like something that could become a hassle with changing relics every week or month for the specific SQ and could cost units depending the number of switches you’d need but ignoring the nodes is always an option since SQ fights aren’t usually too bad
Additionally, and we've talked about this before: Relics are feature that are available to those who want to use them and are ignorable for those who don't. These nodes don't force anyone to use them and doesn't punish you for not. Instead it incentivizes you to, and rewards those who elect, use relics. You don't have to play to this node, and it seems completely feasible that you can complete each fight without using relics.
What? but the skill mission requires Relics, you just can't fight without SA, but... cool... amazing change, this will be part of Act 8.2 of course lol
It just seems like something that could become a hassle with changing relics every week or month for the specific SQ and could cost units depending the number of switches you’d need but ignoring the nodes is always an option since SQ fights aren’t usually too bad
Additionally, and we've talked about this before: Relics are feature that are available to those who want to use them and are ignorable for those who don't. These nodes don't force anyone to use them and doesn't punish you for not. Instead it incentivizes you to, and rewards those who elect, use relics. You don't have to play to this node, and it seems completely feasible that you can complete each fight without using relics.
As others have pointed out, this is not true. You did say we could ignore them with no negative effect and have now apparently reneged on that based on the screenshot in the 1st post. You can't claim you aren't punished for not using relics when not using them in this instance (and who knows how many others now or down the road) basicslly disables a core aspect of our champions and how fighting in this game works in general.
A 90% power gain rate reduction would seem to realistically remove the ability to use (or at least use more than 1) specials which is absolutely a negative effect or punishment. You can try to play the semantics game and say it "incentivizes" us and doesn't "punish" us but that is not a good faith statement. You could fairly say this about last month's incursions hacks where some of them had extra effects for having a relic because that was a new, extra and optional thing to use. Using specials is core to the game so messing with our ability to do so based on having a relic is not an incentive that isn't a punishment; you didn't provide a new benefit by using it, you created a detrimental effect that is only overcome by using a relic. In this case, yes it is beneficial to use it, but it pretty much only restores your champ to what they were without that node so it is only a benefit when you accept the detrimental effect was already a given and it was not. I don't buy that you would have just had a -90% power gain rate node there if relics never existed and by using a relic you are giving us the gift of getting around that node.
Beyond this specific instance, this concept bothers me very much because of the massive potential for unintended interactions and new and more involved bugs that these extra effects and conditionals would seem to create. There are already so many unfixed and even unacknowledged bugs in the game. You have made multiple posts telling us how hard it is for you to identify and resolve bugs and how you now need all this extra specific information from us to try to fix things so why would you do something like this that will probably create so many more problems down the road?
So to the point of the post by @Crine60 and others that specific node in our opinion is a punishment. It’s not easy to ignore or play around it as crine60 points out. There are other relic nodes however that benefit you which is what I would be okay with. Like the one in 3.2 that gives you a prowess for using a special in so many seconds after the relic. Stuff like that is fine but restricting our champs ability is not okay.
Just did that path with this node combination and while annoying, it isn't too bad. Just slap on one of your useless Winter soldier relics on whoever you want to use and it's fine.
What I find more annoying is how it takes like 8 hits for the defenders to get a bar of power due to being 7*s, which makes it annoying having to bait about 4 bars of power before launching your first special 2.
So glad I haven't been bothering with the EQ or SQ. You should keep relics as an optional thing, as in, you can use them if you want like you can get the relic stuff with the objectives. If there is going to be nodes that are relic centered then make it so that having no relic has NO effect on you. I shouldn't have to be penalised for not using equipping relics and using them ... and yes I don't care what anybody says, having a 90% reduction in power gain rate without the use of a relic is in fact a penalty. Absolutely disgusting in my opinion. I hate the relics as it gets in my way when dashing backwards and I always end up hitting it accidently, I shouldn't have to be at a disadvantage because I don't like them
It just seems like something that could become a hassle with changing relics every week or month for the specific SQ and could cost units depending the number of switches you’d need but ignoring the nodes is always an option since SQ fights aren’t usually too bad
Additionally, and we've talked about this before: Relics are feature that are available to those who want to use them and are ignorable for those who don't. These nodes don't force anyone to use them and doesn't punish you for not. Instead it incentivizes you to, and rewards those who elect, use relics. You don't have to play to this node, and it seems completely feasible that you can complete each fight without using relics.
How does it not punish you for not using them? 90% power gain rate reduction is a pretty big deal.
So glad I haven't been bothering with the EQ or SQ. You should keep relics as an optional thing, as in, you can use them if you want like you can get the relic stuff with the objectives. If there is going to be nodes that are relic centered then make it so that having no relic has NO effect on you. I shouldn't have to be penalised for not using equipping relics and using them ... and yes I don't care what anybody says, having a 90% reduction in power gain rate without the use of a relic is in fact a penalty. Absolutely disgusting in my opinion. I hate the relics as it gets in my way when dashing backwards and I always end up hitting it accidently, I shouldn't have to be at a disadvantage because I don't like them
It's not like the entire MEQ is relic based. Again, all of TB requires some sort of qualifier like in chapter 1, you have apply armor break to get the furies. It's not the end of the world.
So glad I haven't been bothering with the EQ or SQ. You should keep relics as an optional thing, as in, you can use them if you want like you can get the relic stuff with the objectives. If there is going to be nodes that are relic centered then make it so that having no relic has NO effect on you. I shouldn't have to be penalised for not using equipping relics and using them ... and yes I don't care what anybody says, having a 90% reduction in power gain rate without the use of a relic is in fact a penalty. Absolutely disgusting in my opinion. I hate the relics as it gets in my way when dashing backwards and I always end up hitting it accidently, I shouldn't have to be at a disadvantage because I don't like them
It's not like the entire MEQ is relic based. Again, all of TB requires some sort of qualifier like in chapter 1, you have apply armor break to get the furies. It's not the end of the world.
Armour break requires champ who has an armour break inbuilt to their abilities as champs. Relics are not the same thing, they're separate to champs in the sense you have to specifically obtain them through various means. If one doesn't want to obtain these relics then that's fine but to limit things to relics is unfair. By all means give those who use relics an advantage but not by lowering something else for everyone who don't use them. I never said it was the end of the world, I'm getting at that it's not fair and they're trying to push us to use them
All I'm really hearing in this thread is alot of, "I hate change." Maybe a game with monthly updates isn't for you then.
Change is good ... sometimes but how is it good to reduce a normal thing by 90% unless you have a relic. That is forcing you to use a relic or play at a disadvantage if you don't. There is another node in the SQ something about dealing a burst of damage with your strikers first hit, i can get behind these sort of things as those who do use relics should be getting some form of a benefit else what's the point? But reducing things for those who don't use them isn't the way to do it.
How is a 90% power reduction not a penalty for not using Relics?
This is what I can't wrap my head around, goes to show what their intentions for relics are .... they'll become a must have not an optional thing like they've been saying.
How is a 90% power reduction not a penalty for not using Relics?
This is what I can't wrap my head around, goes to show what their intentions for relics are .... they'll become a must have not an optional thing like they've been saying.
Well some quest design thought it was a good idea. Then someone else realised the problem and removed the cost of unbinding relics. However @Ebony_Naw was right. Back off from this concept. Delete the nodes, never go there again.
How is a 90% power reduction not a penalty for not using Relics?
This is what I can't wrap my head around, goes to show what their intentions for relics are .... they'll become a must have not an optional thing like they've been saying.
Well some quest design thought it was a good idea. Then someone else realised the problem and removed the cost of unbinding relics. However @Ebony_Naw was right. Back off from this concept. Delete the nodes, never go there again.
Go there by all means but just give the relic users an edge over those without. Like award them a fury or power gain buff for 6 seconds after using a striker for example
It just seems like something that could become a hassle with changing relics every week or month for the specific SQ and could cost units depending the number of switches you’d need but ignoring the nodes is always an option since SQ fights aren’t usually too bad
Additionally, and we've talked about this before: Relics are feature that are available to those who want to use them and are ignorable for those who don't. These nodes don't force anyone to use them and doesn't punish you for not. Instead it incentivizes you to, and rewards those who elect, use relics. You don't have to play to this node, and it seems completely feasible that you can complete each fight without using relics.
They literally give you a 90% power reduction if you don't use them though.
Good point. The relic may not be mandatory but your hamstrung if you don't use it. I really don't want to have to move relics around to complete path. How is that fun?
This is the part that I agree with. I honestly don’t mind relics being in the game or even having nodes that have this punishment/reward mechanic for using them. That’s fine.
The problem is that there aren’t enough relics currently in the game for this. The current design philosophy behind these relics is that they provide very niche and specific bonuses, such that they only really make sense to use on specific champions. I have my relics on those champions. They are not the champions I want to use in EQ.
Monthly EQ, even on Thronebreaker, isn’t super difficult. It’s where I get to break out the champs I ranked up because I like using them, not because they’re particularly meta. It’s not fun to have to go in, pull a relic off a champion who benefits from it, stick it on a champion who it does nothing for, run the quest, then go back in and take it off that champion just to stick it back on the one that had it originally. I know it’s a small thing, but it’s just so many steps and if you forget to do it and go into another quest, you’re out of luck.
Relics are here to stay and I’m totally good with that. They add to the game. But there just aren’t enough of them present yet to apply to the champs you want to use without it being a multi-step procedure before entering the quest, and even then you end up with nonsense pairings.
It just seems like something that could become a hassle with changing relics every week or month for the specific SQ and could cost units depending the number of switches you’d need but ignoring the nodes is always an option since SQ fights aren’t usually too bad
Additionally, and we've talked about this before: Relics are feature that are available to those who want to use them and are ignorable for those who don't. These nodes don't force anyone to use them and doesn't punish you for not. Instead it incentivizes you to, and rewards those who elect, use relics. You don't have to play to this node, and it seems completely feasible that you can complete each fight without using relics.
They literally give you a 90% power reduction if you don't use them though.
Good point. The relic may not be mandatory but your hamstrung if you don't use it. I really don't want to have to move relics around to complete path. How is that fun?
This is the part that I agree with. I honestly don’t mind relics being in the game or even having nodes that have this punishment/reward mechanic for using them. That’s fine.
The problem is that there aren’t enough relics currently in the game for this. The current design philosophy behind these relics is that they provide very niche and specific bonuses, such that they only really make sense to use on specific champions. I have my relics on those champions. They are not the champions I want to use in EQ.
Monthly EQ, even on Thronebreaker, isn’t super difficult. It’s where I get to break out the champs I ranked up because I like using them, not because they’re particularly meta. It’s not fun to have to go in, pull a relic off a champion who benefits from it, stick it on a champion who it does nothing for, run the quest, then go back in and take it off that champion just to stick it back on the one that had it originally. I know it’s a small thing, but it’s just so many steps and if you forget to do it and go into another quest, you’re out of luck.
Relics are here to stay and I’m totally good with that. They add to the game. But there just aren’t enough of them present yet to apply to the champs you want to use without it being a multi-step procedure before entering the quest, and even then you end up with nonsense pairings.
I don’t find it difficult. Some Champs benefit the most from them, and the Runes pretty much line that out. I've been enjoying Thor with Hulkling.
How is a 90% power reduction not a penalty for not using Relics?
This is what I can't wrap my head around, goes to show what their intentions for relics are .... they'll become a must have not an optional thing like they've been saying.
Pretty sure they stated when they released that they were optional, but they had plans for their gradual use later. It’s later now.
Comments
A 2* Medusa could do buffed up.
Having nodes based around effectively a side game, which some Summoner's won't/can't partake in, is fundamentally different.
It's like making a set of nodes which require you to have the inequity mastery otherwise there's a 90% damage reduction - would you be okay with that?
Or if there was a -95% power gain rate if you didn't have a 500 unit profile picture equipped.
Or if you don't have the Sigil title equipped you have -20% attack rating.
At which point is there a divergence from the status quo, that you would stop using the "how is this any different from now" argument?
Swapping out your profile pic to the free one you earned for doing a side quest to allow you to gain power in a quest.
I've removed the free barrier you presented, still happy with that game design?
I really don't want to have to move relics around to complete path. How is that fun?
A 90% power gain rate reduction would seem to realistically remove the ability to use (or at least use more than 1) specials which is absolutely a negative effect or punishment. You can try to play the semantics game and say it "incentivizes" us and doesn't "punish" us but that is not a good faith statement. You could fairly say this about last month's incursions hacks where some of them had extra effects for having a relic because that was a new, extra and optional thing to use. Using specials is core to the game so messing with our ability to do so based on having a relic is not an incentive that isn't a punishment; you didn't provide a new benefit by using it, you created a detrimental effect that is only overcome by using a relic. In this case, yes it is beneficial to use it, but it pretty much only restores your champ to what they were without that node so it is only a benefit when you accept the detrimental effect was already a given and it was not. I don't buy that you would have just had a -90% power gain rate node there if relics never existed and by using a relic you are giving us the gift of getting around that node.
Beyond this specific instance, this concept bothers me very much because of the massive potential for unintended interactions and new and more involved bugs that these extra effects and conditionals would seem to create. There are already so many unfixed and even unacknowledged bugs in the game. You have made multiple posts telling us how hard it is for you to identify and resolve bugs and how you now need all this extra specific information from us to try to fix things so why would you do something like this that will probably create so many more problems down the road?
What I find more annoying is how it takes like 8 hits for the defenders to get a bar of power due to being 7*s, which makes it annoying having to bait about 4 bars of power before launching your first special 2.
I understand new champs will bring new abilities, and new nodes will always be needed to freshen up.
If these relic nodes are just an additional incentive that’s fine, but don’t turn it into a must have.
However @Ebony_Naw was right. Back off from this concept. Delete the nodes, never go there again.
The problem is that there aren’t enough relics currently in the game for this. The current design philosophy behind these relics is that they provide very niche and specific bonuses, such that they only really make sense to use on specific champions. I have my relics on those champions. They are not the champions I want to use in EQ.
Monthly EQ, even on Thronebreaker, isn’t super difficult. It’s where I get to break out the champs I ranked up because I like using them, not because they’re particularly meta. It’s not fun to have to go in, pull a relic off a champion who benefits from it, stick it on a champion who it does nothing for, run the quest, then go back in and take it off that champion just to stick it back on the one that had it originally. I know it’s a small thing, but it’s just so many steps and if you forget to do it and go into another quest, you’re out of luck.
Relics are here to stay and I’m totally good with that. They add to the game. But there just aren’t enough of them present yet to apply to the champs you want to use without it being a multi-step procedure before entering the quest, and even then you end up with nonsense pairings.
Relics should give you an advantage if you use them.
Relics shouldn't give you a direct disadvantage if you don't use them.