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Rank down tickets for Zemo and Kraven…

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Comments

  • DukenpukeDukenpuke Posts: 658 ★★★

    Dukenpuke said:

    Completely disagree about not providing rank down tickets for Zemo.

    This affects him (Baron Zemo) more than Kraven as more people use and ranked up Baron Zemo.

    I don't see how saying this was mentioned on "Trello board" should be something most players even know about. No one in majority of my Line chats know what this is, and the fact it's not in the forums or in-game already is a big problem.

    The simple fact is that the people on the forum are about 50% of your player base at most shows there is a major disconnect with this reasoning. There's many who don't use the forums and that's why it's important to communicate in-game mail and notifications more than anything else.

    Never has there been in-game communication stating we need to use this "Trello Board" (or a link to this) in order to ensure we don't rank champions up that are deemed "bugged" many months after release.

    I humbly ask to have this reconsidered and offer all Summoners the ability to rank down Baron Zemo as well as Kraven as this affects any that don't have anything to do with a off-site and non-in-game place for information.

    It's best to remember that many do not play this game as much as others and have family and jobs that require them to focus on that more than this game. Asking those players to keep track of 3 different places (in-game, forums and now Trello Board) is asking something beyond a reasonable request.

    Thank you,

    Mando

    Even the term "bugged" is wrong, the developers outed themselves in their reply by saying they considered the root an op ability and they decided to nerf it. Labeling it as a bug even in that stupid trello board is plainly put disingenuous. Zemo rank down tickets are necessary, ESPECIALLY after that reply that CONFIRMS that it is not a bug, but a NERF to root.
    Did they say that?

    The way I read it was that the original intention of the root mechanic was to have the AI of rooted champs "bias" towards heavy attacks. However, in practice, that bias meant that a rooted champ would never actually throw a special while rooted.

    At worst, it's a miscommunication between the design team and the development team about the intended functionality of the mechanic. The design team never intended for these champs to not throw specials, but that's how it ended up being implemented.

    It's a legitimate gripe to say that it was labeled as a "Zemo bug" instead of a "root bug," but I don't think there's any issue with calling it a "bug." It was a mechanic that was implemented in a way that was not intended.
    Valid argument if a small thing called "testing new mechanics you’re putting into your game" didn’t exist. It’s not a bug if you suddenly decide it needs to do something else completely, they are nerfing a FEATURE of root.
    I'll be the first one to admit that Kabam isn't great about testing features that go into their game. There's a lot of stuff that isn't ready for prime time that makes it live. They're hardly the only company that has this problem.

    However, I struggle to find where they "suddenly decide [root] needs to to something else completely." The new implementation is that rooted champs throw their specials (collectively) less often than non-rooted champs. It might not be how they originally intended to do it, but it was necessary to prevent a situation where rooted champs can't throw specials at all.

    Whether you agree with how they implemented the "fix" or not, I don't understand why labeling it as a "bug" was disingenuous.

  • SummonerNRSummonerNR Posts: 10,253 Guardian
    Jaymix79 said:


    Never heard of it or viewed it. And I frequently read the boards.

    Bugmat78 said:


    I hadn't heard of this trello board until today.

    It's been “stickied” (at top, in Purple posted group) in the RECENT DISCUSSIONS, and the BUGS AND KNOWN ISSUES categories. Ever since Trello site was created last October.

    .. had to go looking in the wasteland that is the bugs forum to find it.

    It's also in the Purple sticky section of the primary RECENT DISCUSSIONS (tabbed as “DISCUSSIONS” at top of Forum), not just BUGS/ISSUES category.
  • DukenpukeDukenpuke Posts: 658 ★★★

    Dukenpuke said:

    Completely disagree about not providing rank down tickets for Zemo.

    This affects him (Baron Zemo) more than Kraven as more people use and ranked up Baron Zemo.

    I don't see how saying this was mentioned on "Trello board" should be something most players even know about. No one in majority of my Line chats know what this is, and the fact it's not in the forums or in-game already is a big problem.

    The simple fact is that the people on the forum are about 50% of your player base at most shows there is a major disconnect with this reasoning. There's many who don't use the forums and that's why it's important to communicate in-game mail and notifications more than anything else.

    Never has there been in-game communication stating we need to use this "Trello Board" (or a link to this) in order to ensure we don't rank champions up that are deemed "bugged" many months after release.

    I humbly ask to have this reconsidered and offer all Summoners the ability to rank down Baron Zemo as well as Kraven as this affects any that don't have anything to do with a off-site and non-in-game place for information.

    It's best to remember that many do not play this game as much as others and have family and jobs that require them to focus on that more than this game. Asking those players to keep track of 3 different places (in-game, forums and now Trello Board) is asking something beyond a reasonable request.

    Thank you,

    Mando

    Even the term "bugged" is wrong, the developers outed themselves in their reply by saying they considered the root an op ability and they decided to nerf it. Labeling it as a bug even in that stupid trello board is plainly put disingenuous. Zemo rank down tickets are necessary, ESPECIALLY after that reply that CONFIRMS that it is not a bug, but a NERF to root.
    Did they say that?

    The way I read it was that the original intention of the root mechanic was to have the AI of rooted champs "bias" towards heavy attacks. However, in practice, that bias meant that a rooted champ would never actually throw a special while rooted.

    At worst, it's a miscommunication between the design team and the development team about the intended functionality of the mechanic. The design team never intended for these champs to not throw specials, but that's how it ended up being implemented.

    It's a legitimate gripe to say that it was labeled as a "Zemo bug" instead of a "root bug," but I don't think there's any issue with calling it a "bug." It was a mechanic that was implemented in a way that was not intended.
    I was hesitant to call this part out because I didn’t want to ensure they don’t let the dev team talk directly to us like this without a filter but since the door is open:

    1. They confirmed they didn’t how root was working in game for a long time, including time spent developing Zemo.
    2. They confirmed they thought root working on a bias and not a guaranteed special lock was a good idea. It’s one thing for a champ to rely on RNG for damage components but expecting players to use a mechanic that RNG could allow to let them run right into a special attack seems like nonsense to me.
    Don't disagree with either point.

    Just saying that it's not disingenuous to label the root mechanic not working as intended as a "bug." A feature not working as intended is the exact definition of a bug.
  • BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Posts: 1,398 ★★★★★

    BigBlueOx said:

    Man… I keep thinking about the content creators that put out videos on the Root-Lock… if it was me I’d pull it all down and redo any Zemo related content that relies on this mechanism

    Just to give some credit here, MSD did update the title of his video on the subject to say "No Sp3 Lock Anymore" not too long after it was changed. He's a real one.
    I saw that and I have to agree. Really curious if others will follow suit. I do think the video probably needs to be redone though as it still contains the “bug”
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,089 ★★★★★

    I shared it. It was on the Trello board, at least since April.

    That's still ages after the champs released. Not enough. Not to mention trello isn't as popular as forums. Least they could have done is put up a forum post since it's such a crucial bug. Or at least, you know, on the Baron Zemo rebalance post
    About a year and 4 months. When was it reported? What usually happens in these cases is people don't report them when they're useful in some way.
    Root has had issues all along the way. Rintrah, for example. It's been known that he was taking no Damage. Even people pointing out that Root is bugged when they gave it the green light.
    Listen, I empathize with the OP and I appreciate how passionate they are, but I do not agree with RDTs for bug fixes. I didn't the last times they gave them out for it, and I don't now.
    They're for major intended changes to how a Champ is supposed to perform. There isn't any evidence, other than "That's how they worked." to support that. If it was a listed ability and it changed, fair enough. That's not what we have.
    You should stop trying to argue this, they never sait Root is bugged even in your trollo board. They only mentioned Zemo by name. No one is opposing this change as long as they offer tickets for the now worse champion. What does it even matter to you, are you on some payroll what the hell?
    Root is a mechanic. Not a Champion. If it was bugged and they fixed it, they can't just give Tickets for every Champ with Root.
    Perhaps a lack of communication, sure. I don't see notes in the Patch Notes. You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it.

    On Beta.
    Hickdog27 said:

    "You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it."

    Just to be clear, the players are not the ones who benefitted from the bug, Kabam did. They sold an awful lot of Zemo cavs, sig stones, and rank up materials that were put in to him as a result of this "bug".

    If you're pushing the narrative that they did a Bait and Switch, that is as old as my presence on the Forum.
    And what changed with the beta? Root has worked the same way since their original Kraven announcement until just days ago.
    Betas are never the final word on how something is intended to work after release. That's why they have Betas.
    You're right, and if they had mentioned at all at release that Root wasn't working as intended, there wouldn't be an issue. But they didn't. Not for over a year afterwards.
    There is NO time limit on bugs.
    You're still missing the point and I really don't understand what you're hoping to achieve. Nobody is hurt by players getting RDT's except for Kabam, and you yourself said they failed to communicate. They failed in many new and inventive ways with this one. It really feels like you're just here to argue.
    That I disagree with. Frankly, I wish they were never introduced. Ever since, there have been countless requests for them, and they're completely counterproductive to the game itself.
    Ranking a Champ is meant to be a one-way process. Not a choice to revisit in the future. Everytime they're given, the precedent is fed for more in the future.
    My feelings are besides the point. I understand their use. Those cases should not come under bug fixes. Besides feeding that precedent, it just clouds the whole purpose of them and adds to confusion. I respect Kabam’s decisions because it's not mine to make, and I understand their reasoning. That doesn't mean I agree with every decision.
    I don't think they should have been given for bug fixes, and I sure don't think Christmas was a good idea. That's been my position over the years consistently. This is a situation I don't feel warrants them.
    It doesn't take a great amount of common sense to understand why Root preventing L3s is OP.
    Moleman having True strike in frenzy was not in his ability and was also too OP
    They offered rank down tickets because they knew it was a bug due to their error
    Honestly it feels like you are just here to argue
    I disagree. I'm not here to argue. They offered it because they knew a number of people Ranked him for that specific reason alone, and they took responsibility for the lack of communication. I get their intentions. Which is why I said I appreciate them extending it in this case.
    I still don't agree with RDTs for fixes. Never did. For good reason, too. It's a Pandora's Box. As we see here. Offer them in one case, people justify them in all cases, and the demand never ends.
  • I_tell_no_tales_1I_tell_no_tales_1 Posts: 1,155 ★★★★
    Bugmat78 said:

    Completely understandable fix. Zemo's still great without the Zemo Lock, but Kraven definitely isn't worth those materials. Thanks, Miike.

    I do think a lot more thought should go into the importance of clarifying abilities in game, even if they're AI specific. As well as updating players on the Forums. The Trello board isn't a reliable place to receive updates considering the amount of hoops players have to jump through to find it in the first place.

    I hadn't heard of this trello board until today.

    I think the people who carried Zemo to r4 and r5 will still be upset and I feel for them. RDTs should be for both Zemo and Kraven, as many ranked Zemo up not just based on what was seen in YT vids but also paralleling their experience of Kraven's 18-month-old mechanic (which is what is being used to justify giving Kraven RDTs).

    I also don't think this issue ever comes up if relics weren't a thing, as they have become part of why infinite mechanisms like this have been possible lately. Have the devs been testing their champs with relics before they release them?

    My policy is to not cary any champ who seems way OP past r3 in case they are bugged, which is why my zemo, cassie and kate bishop are still r3.
    Same here
    I also never knew of his existence
This discussion has been closed.