**RESOLVED ISSUE WITH SIDE QUEST KEYS**
The game team has resolved this issue. Keys will be distributed via in-game messages and the quest timer will be extended.
More information and timeline here.
*This includes currently unclaimable keys as well*
**WINTER OF WOE - BONUS OBJECTIVE POINT**
As previously announced, the team will be distributing an additional point toward milestones to anyone who completed the Absorbing Man fight in the first step of the Winter of Woe.
This point will be distributed at a later time as it requires the team to pull and analyze data.
The timeline has not been set, but work has started.

Rank down tickets for Zemo and Kraven…

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Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,094 ★★★★★

    It's not that random. Anyone who frequents the Forum is aware of it.
    I think it's getting more hate than necessary. Granted, they've had issues keeping it updated, and it's been a work in progress, however it's what we asked for.
    Players have been asking for years for a place to post issues that are being reported or investigated. This was an effort to accommodate that.
    You know, communication slipping is one thing. I respect when people point that out. It's another to berate the efforts they actually make. Regardless of your feelings, they're still putting in effort.

    Listen, you said you’re not a villain, then trust, I play the game since 2015 and have been on the forums since 2017, I never knew about it, it’s got like 9.2k views. This thread has more than double… you gotta trust us that we ain’t lying.
    I've been around for 7 and a half years. I'm not new. I was on this Forum, and the last. Both cases, there is a lack or acknowledgement for the efforts they do make.
    I'm not suggesting people praise Trello, or Kabam. I understand the issue is it wasn't visible for some people. I get it. That doesn't mean we need to take a deuce on the fact that they did make efforts. Through a venue that people asked for. Crossed wires, failure in communication, sure.
    In order for communication to take place, both sides must be willing to meet each other. Not just demands.
    And you support the company or the people that are now disappointed? You do know rank down tickets are nothing right? The resources spent on the game, real money, is gone and in return we have a champion that is sub par. He didn’t use to be this way, so no matter their effort, why yould you not wish for the people to receive this champion’s resources back in-game? Kabam is losing nothing here… the only ones potentially winning are the players.
    I support both, actually. The company is made of people, just like the Players. All trying to do a job.
    I don't subscribe to the idea that it's "nothing". Everything in the game represents hours of work.
    If you're asking me to support RDTs, I don't. I wish they were never programmed. They were introduced for a very specific purpose, and we've never heard the end of them.
    Everytime they're given, that purpose is misconstrued, and it just feeds people asking for more.
    I'm not ignorant to the fact that people spent time, energy, and money Ranking Champs. However, it's their product. They have the right to change it as is needed. That much is outlined in the ToS.
    They're as accommodating as possible in these instances. More than I would be because unless it applies to major changes to a way a Champ is intended to perform, I don't agree it applies.
    There are no end-user purchases in a game like this. It's not even a purchase for ownership. It's a lease to use their product, and as much as people call them "Kascam" and cry about Bait-And-Switch, and claim precedence, they've shown a consistent ability to take responsibility and make things right whenever they can. That doesn't always translate into giving people EVERYTHING they want. Just as much as they can, as appropriately as they can, without infringing on design constraints.
    Go ahead, be mad. Just stop and realize they do more than people are letting on when they grab the pitchforks. Not because I'm "pro-Kabam", because it's the truth.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,094 ★★★★★
    This right here is why I say something. These conversations are so one-sided they kill themselves off. "Give us what we ask for an


    That "burden" is on both sides. All too often I've seen people cite transparency, and in the same token complain about their efforts. Communication takes two sides. When one side fails and acknowledges it, that's worth something. Not the expectation that they should have known better.
    They did make a communication. They realized it fell short and made a direct address from the Devs themselves. Something that doesn't happen often.
    The Trello board was something that fell short, no doubt. When people are acting like it doesn't even exist, when it's been posted here for months and months, that's not entirely their fault.

    You're a smart person, which is how I know you're intentionally being obtuse and trying to obfuscate the point.

    People aren't JUST dogging on Trello, and even those who are, are doing so with purpose. Because the real issue here is the decision to not issue RDT for Zemo.

    Kabam acknowledged that their communication was bad and they could have done better. The acknowledged that they intentionally didn't communicate it through other means and that this was a mistake. They promised to do better.

    All of that, is amazing. I can't actually stress that enough. That accountability is fantastic and is honestly something they might not have done a couple of years ago. I concede to your point that the player base absolutely needs to give Kabam more props for this.

    And, more of the player base probably would.... IF Kabam didn't follow it up in the very next sentence by attempting to use the communication they acknowledge wasn't done properly, as a means of saying "Well, we upheld our side of the bargain and communicated this during the three month period."

    That's dealing in bad faith. You know it, I know it, they know it.

    You don't like RDT, that's valid. TBH, I don't either. But not a single person has asked you to support them and I don't think a single person here cares whether or not you do.

    Fact of the matter is, they do exist whether you support/like them or not and Kabam has set the precedent for their use. So yeah, people will cite precedent, because it's a business practice and you can act like ToS covers Kabam to make any and all decisions they want and we have no power, but businesses have responsibilities to their customers... and you know that.

    This IS a change to the character that alters the way they function.
    It actually doesn't matter if it's a less efficient rotation, it alters the way people use Zemo.

    RDT are actually pretty rare. They're not issued frequently because Kabam doesn't make mistakes like this often. Do I think they should get celebrated more frequently? Yes. Humanity is polarized towards the negative and we focus more on things we don't like... it's not fair but it's why the more vocal things are almost always complaints.

    But when Kabam does make a mistake with a champion and then alter them in a way that changes their functionality, a RDT is warranted. Kabam acknowledges that, they're just trying to hold to line that separates Zemo and Kraven. "Zemo's issue was referenced... we owe you nothing. Kraven though, yeah we never referenced that so here's a RDT." Which might be valid, if their attempts to communicate with us was in any way efficient - which they themselves admitted was not the case.

    Let's not pretend that issuing a RDT is some big company breaking moment that's going to bring Kabam to their knees or impact their PNL. You don't subscribe to the stance that "it's nothing" because it's work for someone to do. That's fair, I concede that point, but when players say "it's nothing" they're referencing the fact that many of them spent time, effort and/or money getting Zemo to that rank, only to have the product changed on them. So why is all of their time/effort/money less valued? "It's nothing" is a reference to the fact that it's minimal effort required from Kabam to make the situation right. But you already know that's what it means.

    Someone has to put in the work to send out an in game E-Mail with champion specific RDT? Someone has to program those and make sure they can't work on other champions? You're absolutely right. But that falls on the company, because it was their mistake and oversight.

    Kabam can either stand by their acknowledgement that the communication wasn't done properly, which gives credence to the argument that the players should be compensated because they weren't actually informed. Or Kabam stands by their belief that adequate communication was made and it was done in a timely manner, thus they upheld their end of the bargain and have no responsibility to make the players whole because "it was brought up during the rebalancing period and it's the players fault for not checking the notes."

    They can't realistically have it both ways.
    Just because I'm a smart person doesn't mean I'm an a#^-^le. I'm talking about equal respect.
    I'm not trying to obfuscate anything. I'm speaking to the other side of the negative compendium that's always posted here. There is more than one side to this, other than "You owe us!".
    The majority of this is redundant. They've taken responsibility for their communication error. That may not look like RDTs for all, but that's the reality of it.
    These things always end up in a delitany of wrong-doings, and that perspective lacks acknowledgement of what they're actually doing. There's no denying that.
    No one said it was the Players' fault. That doesn't mean it's an automatic path to what people would prefer is the outcome. I'm sorry, but that's just a reality.
    An effort was made to rectify it, and because that effort doesn't include Tickets for all Champs affected (which I pointed out wasn't a likely possibility), there is an outpouring of reactions.
    I'm not new here. Nor am I telling people to stop posting their views. What I am pointing out, is it isn't cut-and-dry. It isn't "Kabam evil, Players victims.". There are efforts on their part, and wanting respect without giving it in return isn't fair. It's indignation.
    Believe me, if you think I have any control over the reactions, I don't. That doesn't mean I'm not going to speak the truth, even when it's not what people want to admit.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,094 ★★★★★
    Caleb1705 said:

    This right here is why I say something. These conversations are so one-sided they kill themselves off. "Give us what we ask for an


    That "burden" is on both sides. All too often I've seen people cite transparency, and in the same token complain about their efforts. Communication takes two sides. When one side fails and acknowledges it, that's worth something. Not the expectation that they should have known better.
    They did make a communication. They realized it fell short and made a direct address from the Devs themselves. Something that doesn't happen often.
    The Trello board was something that fell short, no doubt. When people are acting like it doesn't even exist, when it's been posted here for months and months, that's not entirely their fault.

    You're a smart person, which is how I know you're intentionally being obtuse and trying to obfuscate the point.

    People aren't JUST dogging on Trello, and even those who are, are doing so with purpose. Because the real issue here is the decision to not issue RDT for Zemo.

    Kabam acknowledged that their communication was bad and they could have done better. The acknowledged that they intentionally didn't communicate it through other means and that this was a mistake. They promised to do better.

    All of that, is amazing. I can't actually stress that enough. That accountability is fantastic and is honestly something they might not have done a couple of years ago. I concede to your point that the player base absolutely needs to give Kabam more props for this.

    And, more of the player base probably would.... IF Kabam didn't follow it up in the very next sentence by attempting to use the communication they acknowledge wasn't done properly, as a means of saying "Well, we upheld our side of the bargain and communicated this during the three month period."

    That's dealing in bad faith. You know it, I know it, they know it.

    You don't like RDT, that's valid. TBH, I don't either. But not a single person has asked you to support them and I don't think a single person here cares whether or not you do.

    Fact of the matter is, they do exist whether you support/like them or not and Kabam has set the precedent for their use. So yeah, people will cite precedent, because it's a business practice and you can act like ToS covers Kabam to make any and all decisions they want and we have no power, but businesses have responsibilities to their customers... and you know that.

    This IS a change to the character that alters the way they function.
    It actually doesn't matter if it's a less efficient rotation, it alters the way people use Zemo.

    RDT are actually pretty rare. They're not issued frequently because Kabam doesn't make mistakes like this often. Do I think they should get celebrated more frequently? Yes. Humanity is polarized towards the negative and we focus more on things we don't like... it's not fair but it's why the more vocal things are almost always complaints.

    But when Kabam does make a mistake with a champion and then alter them in a way that changes their functionality, a RDT is warranted. Kabam acknowledges that, they're just trying to hold to line that separates Zemo and Kraven. "Zemo's issue was referenced... we owe you nothing. Kraven though, yeah we never referenced that so here's a RDT." Which might be valid, if their attempts to communicate with us was in any way efficient - which they themselves admitted was not the case.

    Let's not pretend that issuing a RDT is some big company breaking moment that's going to bring Kabam to their knees or impact their PNL. You don't subscribe to the stance that "it's nothing" because it's work for someone to do. That's fair, I concede that point, but when players say "it's nothing" they're referencing the fact that many of them spent time, effort and/or money getting Zemo to that rank, only to have the product changed on them. So why is all of their time/effort/money less valued? "It's nothing" is a reference to the fact that it's minimal effort required from Kabam to make the situation right. But you already know that's what it means.

    Someone has to put in the work to send out an in game E-Mail with champion specific RDT? Someone has to program those and make sure they can't work on other champions? You're absolutely right. But that falls on the company, because it was their mistake and oversight.

    Kabam can either stand by their acknowledgement that the communication wasn't done properly, which gives credence to the argument that the players should be compensated because they weren't actually informed. Or Kabam stands by their belief that adequate communication was made and it was done in a timely manner, thus they upheld their end of the bargain and have no responsibility to make the players whole because "it was brought up during the rebalancing period and it's the players fault for not checking the notes."

    They can't realistically have it both ways.
    Just because I'm a smart person doesn't mean I'm an a#^-^le. I'm talking about equal respect.
    I'm not trying to obfuscate anything. I'm speaking to the other side of the negative compendium that's always posted here. There is more than one side to this, other than "You owe us!".
    The majority of this is redundant. They've taken responsibility for their communication error. That may not look like RDTs for all, but that's the reality of it.
    These things always end up in a delitany of wrong-doings, and that perspective lacks acknowledgement of what they're actually doing. There's no denying that.
    No one said it was the Players' fault. That doesn't mean it's an automatic path to what people would prefer is the outcome. I'm sorry, but that's just a reality.
    An effort was made to rectify it, and because that effort doesn't include Tickets for all Champs affected (which I pointed out wasn't a likely possibility), there is an outpouring of reactions.
    I'm not new here. Nor am I telling people to stop posting their views. What I am pointing out, is it isn't cut-and-dry. It isn't "Kabam evil, Players victims.". There are efforts on their part, and wanting respect without giving it in return isn't fair. It's indignation.
    Believe me, if you think I have any control over the reactions, I don't. That doesn't mean I'm not going to speak the truth, even when it's not what people want to admit.
    You literally quoted a response saying that what Kabam has done so far is amazing as a means to say that the community demands respect without giving any in return my guy. Yes, kabam has taken measures to address the issue, but as you even say the fault is not at all with the player base. It is just mind boggling that you feel the injured party is not allowed to say that a written apology backed by a half measured action is not enough to fully rectify the situation.
    How did you get any of that from what I said? Other than the part about respect being a two-way street, none of that is what I was implying.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,094 ★★★★★
    I never said anything about "amazing". I said they took responsibility. I also said it was more than what I agreed with because of my feelings on RDTs. The point was, any effort they make is ignored, and that's not accurate.
    I also specifically said I'm not trying to impede people from expressing themselves, so I don't know where that last bit is coming from.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,094 ★★★★★
    If by a beautiful reply you mean implying I'm being intentionally obtuse and missing the fact that people just want the Tickets for Zemo too, then that hasn't escaped me. I'm just not much for being patronized.
    Also, making things personal isn't going to get you Tickets. I've actually been respectful, considering my feelings on these things. People are talking about a cheese that shouldn't exist in the game. It doesn't take a great deal of consideration to see that.
  • I_tell_no_tales_1I_tell_no_tales_1 Posts: 1,155 ★★★★

    If by a beautiful reply you mean implying I'm being intentionally obtuse and missing the fact that people just want the Tickets for Zemo too, then that hasn't escaped me. I'm just not much for being patronized.
    Also, making things personal isn't going to get you Tickets. I've actually been respectful, considering my feelings on these things. People are talking about a cheese that shouldn't exist in the game. It doesn't take a great deal of consideration to see that.

    Racism shouldn't exist, no one likes it, but it does exist and people are racist.
  • I_tell_no_tales_1I_tell_no_tales_1 Posts: 1,155 ★★★★

    If by a beautiful reply you mean implying I'm being intentionally obtuse and missing the fact that people just want the Tickets for Zemo too, then that hasn't escaped me. I'm just not much for being patronized.
    Also, making things personal isn't going to get you Tickets. I've actually been respectful, considering my feelings on these things. People are talking about a cheese that shouldn't exist in the game. It doesn't take a great deal of consideration to see that.

    Racism shouldn't exist, no one likes it, but it does exist and people are racist.
    This is wildly off topic
    Ahh I was just telling him that there are many things we don't like but they still happen. So him saying that RDTs should not be given to anyone since he doesn't approve of them is unreasonable.

    Gonna put more effort in not drifting off the topic. Sorry.
This discussion has been closed.