The current BG is designed like a disaster

Ericson23Ericson23 Member Posts: 117 ★★
edited August 2023 in General Discussion
1、Adding 3 new Ranks to the Victory Track
2、Making some changes to the number of medals required to progress through the early stages of the Victory Track.

These two directly lead to a lot of matches that need to be played from bronze to vibraium. This makes those high-pretige players decide to use the Elder's Mark directly for the whole process starting from the bronze, and there is basically no need to deliberately lose to brush scores.

I know that last season many people deliberately lost the match, which is not a healthy way to play. But now, playing for more than an hour, losing all the time, and then getting nothing, is this normal?

This kind of experience will only make people not want to play this BG.You have to make it possible for those players to get some points even if they lose, so that they can get some milestone rewards. Of course, those who directly enter and then exit the game are not counted, and those who deliberately delay the time are not counted.

If you agree with my point of view, please leave a message.
Post edited by Kabam Miike on
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Comments

  • MackeyMackey Member Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★
    Deliberately delay the timer how?
  • Ericson23Ericson23 Member Posts: 117 ★★
    Will you still score 300,000 points in BG this season?
  • MackeyMackey Member Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★
    Deliberately delay the timer how?
    Ericson23 said:

    Mackey said:

    Deliberately delay the timer how?

    They deliberately don’t do anything, deliberately don’t pick defense heroes, and deliberately don’t pick attack heroes, deliberately stop when the game start, and if they don’t play, it takes time and makes you feel bored. Sometimes, the other person can't take it anymore and quits

    Have you never met such a player?
    No I haven't tbh, come across quite a few who have quit out in draft but thats about it really
  • ChiliDogChiliDog Member Posts: 899 ★★★
    Greekhit said:

    ChiliDog said:

    The changes to the BG setup overall and stupid protection nodes...I will just get my 600 trophies every other day in bronze and hope they revert the changes and have better nodes.

    By adding extra wins required and more tiers, they basically un-did the positives from last season for many of us. You get double points per win, but now you need more points....so.....

    I've not seen the mm change either. 7r2s everywhere though....even in bronze still.

    Come on kabam....

    Matchmaking changed this season.
    Last seasons Prestige matchmaking started to loosen at Platinum3 now that happens at Diamond3.
    Adding in the change from 2-1 tokens to 1-1, and a huge percentage of Paragons will find themselves trapped between G3 to P1.
    Seeding won’t help that situation, and VT will be a slog anyway due to matchmaking and the many extra 1-1 token tiers.
    Oh ****, I thought they were going the other way with matchmaking, lol. Making it more tier based back into gold and silver versus platinum 3. Another stupid move.
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  • Ericson23Ericson23 Member Posts: 117 ★★
    Playing this mode is too difficult, why not set the upgrade of each segment to only need 3 medals
  • Chuck_FinleyChuck_Finley Member Posts: 1,227 ★★★★★
    ChiliDog said:

    The changes to the BG setup overall and stupid protection nodes...I will just get my 600 trophies every other day in bronze and hope they revert the changes and have better nodes.

    By adding extra wins required and more tiers, they basically un-did the positives from last season for many of us. You get double points per win, but now you need more points....so.....

    I've not seen the mm change either. 7r2s everywhere though....even in bronze still.

    Come on kabam....

    Down in silver 1 with my LLWWL pattern the whole way with my 2 million paragon account still getting beat up by 3.5 and 4 million accounts, seeding isn’t going to help next season either. It’s obvious I am not the only one advancing. So we will meet again for more L’s and tons of missed milestones.

    The node isn’t fun, but the matchmaking and increasing VC length at all levels have wrecked the whole season for me after making GC the last 2 seasons.
  • WinterFieldsWinterFields Member Posts: 786 ★★★★

    ChiliDog said:

    The changes to the BG setup overall and stupid protection nodes...I will just get my 600 trophies every other day in bronze and hope they revert the changes and have better nodes.

    By adding extra wins required and more tiers, they basically un-did the positives from last season for many of us. You get double points per win, but now you need more points....so.....

    I've not seen the mm change either. 7r2s everywhere though....even in bronze still.

    Come on kabam....

    Down in silver 1 with my LLWWL pattern the whole way with my 2 million paragon account still getting beat up by 3.5 and 4 million accounts, seeding isn’t going to help next season either. It’s obvious I am not the only one advancing. So we will meet again for more L’s and tons of missed milestones.

    The node isn’t fun, but the matchmaking and increasing VC length at all levels have wrecked the whole season for me after making GC the last 2 seasons.
    If they had open matchmaking when seeding takes place, you should easily be able to climb up next season since a lot of the best should be seeded higher. Also, a tip is that time of day sometimes help with matchmaking. I'm much more likely to match with super large accounts in the morning than in the afternoon
  • VaniteliaVanitelia Member Posts: 487 ★★★
    Time of day to play is a good option as I have noticed that as well. There's definitely a bottleneck happening this season. With so few players in GC, I wonder how frustrating they have it with trying to find a match?

    I'm in Gold 1 at the moment. Haven't played much. Usually I'll play BG's until I lose twice. Limits my frustration levels.

    I've made this suggestion before in another thread awhile back...it makes more sense to vary the nodes from week to week (or the bi-weekly model we have now) than to vary it in GC. The majority of summoners are in VT. Having the same nodes for 4 weeks is demotivating for sure. Granted, the flip side is getting through quickly, but that's not happening for most.

    It'd be really nice and refreshing to look at the nodes for the season and know that your roster is best suited for to make your push. I have been in GC every season, so I'll get there over the weekend, but the changes this season are not pro-player by any means.
  • FrydayFryday Member Posts: 1,142 ★★★★
    Also I remember seeing somewhere stated that there are some change "tweaking" to the matching calculation as well.

    Does anyone happen to know what it is?

    I'm a Paragon with a moderate (relatively small) size account. Been in GC in the last 2 seasons, but only just got to Gold 1 in this one.

    So far the match I have face are around :-
    30% similar size accounts (only a bit bigger, around 100k more)
    40% a lot bigger (around 900k+)
    30% over double the size with 19k+ Prestige

    So I really confused, I thought we get matched to similar size until we get to Plats (which doesn't seem to be the case with me). I don't mind if it is an "open season" where all size accounts get match up, some big and some smalls. But with here a majority of my matches just bigger or much bigger lol 😆.
  • OakenshieldOakenshield Member Posts: 2,189 ★★★★
    I think the VT changes are not good. Definitely much more of a slog and not an enjoyable one.

    Hoping they revert in the next season or so, if not then my BG play is going to reduce to somewhere between nothing and enough matches to get my every other day milestones.
  • Go_ToGo_To Member Posts: 317 ★★★
    I really love bgs (when I’m winning) and have been in the GC every season. This one however I have no motivation. There’s too much going on with the sq, horrible dlx challenge and new aw changes that somehow make it more challenging. I just don’t have the time to do bgs nor do I want to. The VT is just too long now. Makes it seem like I have to climb the murderhorn
  • Go_ToGo_To Member Posts: 317 ★★★

    Go_To said:

    I really love bgs (when I’m winning) and have been in the GC every season. This one however I have no motivation. There’s too much going on with the sq, horrible dlx challenge and new aw changes that somehow make it more challenging. I just don’t have the time to do bgs nor do I want to. The VT is just too long now. Makes it seem like I have to climb the murderhorn

    I gave up trying in Gold 1. I can push through to Plat if I want. No doubt at all. I was in the GC the last 2 Seasons. I just don't care to anymore. Not when I'm facing 10 Tiers of 3-4-5 consecutive Wins to progress. Not with these Nodes, Champs, and AI. It's the very definition of overkill for me, and I'm quite disheartened about it. I was really enjoying the journey.
    The protection node this season is brutal. It shouldn’t be annoying but it is. I already get enough of it in aw, EQ and story content.
    I also feel like a lot of the changes they’ve made recently haven’t hit the mark. while the aw store update was very welcomed, I wonder how it will stand the test of time, especially if they wait 6+ months to update it.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,581 ★★★★★
    Go_To said:

    Go_To said:

    I really love bgs (when I’m winning) and have been in the GC every season. This one however I have no motivation. There’s too much going on with the sq, horrible dlx challenge and new aw changes that somehow make it more challenging. I just don’t have the time to do bgs nor do I want to. The VT is just too long now. Makes it seem like I have to climb the murderhorn

    I gave up trying in Gold 1. I can push through to Plat if I want. No doubt at all. I was in the GC the last 2 Seasons. I just don't care to anymore. Not when I'm facing 10 Tiers of 3-4-5 consecutive Wins to progress. Not with these Nodes, Champs, and AI. It's the very definition of overkill for me, and I'm quite disheartened about it. I was really enjoying the journey.
    The protection node this season is brutal. It shouldn’t be annoying but it is. I already get enough of it in aw, EQ and story content.
    I also feel like a lot of the changes they’ve made recently haven’t hit the mark. while the aw store update was very welcomed, I wonder how it will stand the test of time, especially if they wait 6+ months to update it.
    I think the changes would have been fine with the seeding, minus the Token and Tier changes. Perhaps one or two more Tiers would have been sufficient. It's way too much all at once, and the system is just brutal when it's already competitive as hell.
  • ascendanceascendance Member Posts: 23
    The additional tiers has really turned this into a mind-numbing grind. In previous seasons, I would already be in Gamma 2-3 and just chilling on objectives. Also, there seems to be a lot more whale accounts trapped in Diamond - Vibranium tiers. I'm sub 3M rating facing more 3.5-4.8M accounts than 2-3M in Vibranium II. My defenders are stomped in 30-40s without even taking 5% of their health.
  • DUHveedDUHveed Member Posts: 357 ★★★
    This season has for sure been a grind. I’m hoping seeding makes things easier
  • CorkscrewCorkscrew Member Posts: 541 ★★★
    Ericson23 said:


    They deliberately don’t do anything, deliberately don’t pick defense heroes, and deliberately don’t pick attack heroes, deliberately stop when the game start, and if they don’t play, it takes time and makes you feel bored. Sometimes, the other person can't take it anymore and quits
    Have you never met such a player?

    I've been that player... you know why? The connection to the game flakes and I can't select anything, so it's just auto-selecting from timeouts. Then have to force quit and relaunch the game. In the meantime, to other player it looks like I'm just taking my time picking champs... except I'm not picking my champs - it's the game doing it for me.

    Once I get back in - it's an interesting surprise to see which champs have been picked for me.
  • FrydayFryday Member Posts: 1,142 ★★★★
    Greekhit said:

    I'm not having many issues progressing, but i agree, i'm not a big fan of the extra tiers, this season unfortunately will be a big slog. Hopefully from next season with seeding, this slog is reduced.

    I suspect it won't be. The people who didn't place in the GC will be fighting each other up to Plat, then they'll be fighting everyone that made the GC previously. So more slog, with more competition.
    It’s more than obvious that seeding won’t help those who will struggle from Platinum to Vibranium.
    With the current VT setup (many many tiers with only one medal per win) the only ones that seeding will help are the very top players of BGs.
    These are the ones that will see their VT playtime reduced.
    For others with seeding or not, will remain a huge frustrating slog, and ultimately a time and resources waste.
    If Kabam wants players to keep playing BGs they should implement 2-1 medals to Platinum and Diamond tiers too, leaving only Vibranium tiers to filter out the best of the best to GC.
    I would fully agreed with you, 2-1 medals would be a balance and simple way to improve BG.

    However another challenge is the matching system and come up with a balance matching system for all account sizes is hard. As we can see both matching is the same tier and "open season" for all have it pro and con.

    So what if we approach the scoring and progression system in a completely different perspective (I think @DNA3000 might have said something like this before).

    So let start with:-

    The Ranking:
    No change to GC, that stay exactly the same, it is at a higher competitive level after all. For VT we keep the same ranking Bronze, Silver, Gold..ect, however we change how we progress on these Ranking.

    Matching & Score:
    This is where thing changes, instead of getting token for win the match (which is where a lot of problem lie with account size ect). What is we get point for each fight we win.

    e.g (now the exactly number I'm sure DNA300 will come up with a good one, I'm only put it down as some kind of example)
    Win a fight = 50
    Lose = 0
    Win a match = extra 50

    So in a match,
    2-0, winner get 150 and loser get 0
    2-1 winner get 150 and loser get 50

    Progression
    Progress up the ranking with point instead of token.

    e.g, say - Bronze need 300, Silver need 400, Gold need 500 point, something a long that line.

    What would this be a better scoring system than the current one?

    This system would deal with 2 of the biggest problems in BG, account size debate and infinite loop trap of a certain Ranking. Both can be demotivating for a lot of players and reduce participation.

    I don't have a big accounts and only average skills level, I completely accept that players who spend more and have a biggest account should have an advantage, same will players who are more skilled than me, and they should get higher Ranking than me, that is completely fair. However with the current BG ranking and scoring system, one can understand the feeling of being bully, which lead to demotivation, and lost interest in the mode.

    This is also the same when you keep winning 1 and lose 1, getting stuck in an infinite loop trap, especially if your lost is because you were match with account 2 or 3 time bigger than your with no chance of winning. I have had matched before, where I done a perfect fight, barely lost any health and the fastest speed possible, still came out lost just because my opponent champs (Attacker & Def) is bigger than me with bigger health pool. I saw a similar thing with a friendly match between Lagacy and KT1 Hulk, both did an amazing fight, and while I didn't see the fight from both side, I can imagine the win was also affected by the ranking and health pool of the champs too. of course both of these players are at the top the competitive level, so this system isn't cater for these high level players, but it give an good example of how account size can have a massive affect on the result of the match even if both players played a perfect fight.

    With the scoring system, is would help both of this issue relatively well (for the 70 -80% of players). You get point for winning a fight, it mean that even if you do face an account way bigger than your, you still have a chance to get some points out of the match, so all of your time isn't wasted.

    Also with the point ranking, you won't get trap in an stuck infinite loop of winning and losing, stuck in a ranking. As long as you keep at it, even just getting 50 point at a time, you can make it to the next Ranking. Don't get my wrong, it is still hard work but at least you can make small progress.

    How can Kabam make money:- This is important, because for sustainability we do want Kabam to have some kind of gain.

    Instead of Victory Shield, have Point Boost item instead. When you use the point Boost, your point x 2 (x 3, whatever the calculation that work). So with a point boost, you could get 300 points (or 450) from one match instead, enable you to make faster progression with less work. Of course if you don't win then 0 x 2 (or x3) will still be ), so you still have to win lol.

    The idea of BG is that players would even more focus on chasing and ranking up champs (using and buying resource to do so), we have seen so many more ranking up that we normally don't see (I'm looking at you Rhino). However if players are put off by the game mode then they won't be bother with any of that. By making the game more approachable Kabam will get the affect they hope for.

    With that all said, I'm really sure this is something @DNA3000 awhile back, I just can't find the post. If this is that case, maybe you (DNA300) could jump in and explain this better than me :)
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