Battleground matchmaking

Ironman3000

GroundedWisdom said:

I used them before the next Season. I don't sit on them.

So you were at 0 tokens? I highly doubt that GW.

GroundedWisdom

Ironman3000 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I used them before the next Season. I don't sit on them.

So you were at 0 tokens? I highly doubt that GW.

Not 0, just not enough to spend. I use what I get every Season.
Further to that, the argument is moot. You're talking about Tokens they earn with what they're working with in the Matches they have. They earn them fairly. The idea that they're given freebies is greatly exaggerated.

BringPopcorn

GroundedWisdom said:

Ironman3000 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I used them before the next Season. I don't sit on them.

So you were at 0 tokens? I highly doubt that GW.

Not 0, just not enough to spend. I use what I get every Season.
Further to that, the argument is moot. You're talking about Tokens they earn with what they're working with in the Matches they have. They earn them fairly. The idea that they're given freebies is greatly exaggerated.

And saying that bigger accounts want to take advantage of smaller is not?

GroundedWisdom

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Ironman3000 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I used them before the next Season. I don't sit on them.

So you were at 0 tokens? I highly doubt that GW.

Not 0, just not enough to spend. I use what I get every Season.
Further to that, the argument is moot. You're talking about Tokens they earn with what they're working with in the Matches they have. They earn them fairly. The idea that they're given freebies is greatly exaggerated.

And saying that bigger accounts want to take advantage of smaller is not?

That's a fact that's been a part of the game as long as it's existed. Wherever people can find an exploitable advantage, they'll milk it. The difference is, there are other people on the other side of this situation. Not that it's any better when there isn't, just that the effects are more direct.
I'm not sure what reality you're operating under, but people take advantage of the system all the time in this game.

Ironman3000

GroundedWisdom said:

Ironman3000 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I used them before the next Season. I don't sit on them.

So you were at 0 tokens? I highly doubt that GW.

Not 0, just not enough to spend. I use what I get every Season.
Further to that, the argument is moot. You're talking about Tokens they earn with what they're working with in the Matches they have. They earn them fairly. The idea that they're given freebies is greatly exaggerated.

So you're confirming that you were able to use the tokens earned as a TB to spend in the Paragon store. Thanks.

BringPopcorn

Taking advantage of a system is not the same as taking advantage of other players is it?
Using 7* and run them thru low content for "Hero Use" points is not the same as using a small account as a stepping stone, is it?
Seems like you have an axe to grind, specially since Kabam is doing everything possible to actually keep a matchmaking shelter up to a pretty decent ammount of rewards.
You told me not to patronize you, its really hard not to do, specially when you think that big accounts that did most of the content, everest contet and events, spent all their time and resources to "take advantage" of lower accounts.
That was my sole purpose of time, money, and resources spent for years, have an account strong enough to bully small accounts in a game mode that I had no idea would exist.

TrongNov

My acc is only 2.5 mil with one 6*r5. Almost every opponent I faced in Silver bracket is above 3 mil. rating with Legend title. You guys are really lucky to make it that far to Platinum that smoothly.

GroundedWisdom

BringPopcorn said:

Taking advantage of a system is not the same as taking advantage of other players is it?
Using 7* and run them thru low content for "Hero Use" points is not the same as using a small account as a stepping stone, is it?
Seems like you have an axe to grind, specially since Kabam is doing everything possible to actually keep a matchmaking shelter up to a pretty decent ammount of rewards.
You told me not to patronize you, its really hard not to do, specially when you think that big accounts that did most of the content, everest contet and events, spent all their time and resources to "take advantage" of lower accounts.
That was my sole purpose of time, money, and resources spent for years, have an account strong enough to bully small accounts in a game mode that I had no idea would exist.

That's an interesting spin. So you equate manipulating the system for easy Matches with using a 7* to get Points for Hero Use.
Then you're justifying it with being entitled to do so because you put time and effort into the game.
Strange take.

BringPopcorn

T

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

Taking advantage of a system is not the same as taking advantage of other players is it?
Using 7* and run them thru low content for "Hero Use" points is not the same as using a small account as a stepping stone, is it?
Seems like you have an axe to grind, specially since Kabam is doing everything possible to actually keep a matchmaking shelter up to a pretty decent ammount of rewards.
You told me not to patronize you, its really hard not to do, specially when you think that big accounts that did most of the content, everest contet and events, spent all their time and resources to "take advantage" of lower accounts.
That was my sole purpose of time, money, and resources spent for years, have an account strong enough to bully small accounts in a game mode that I had no idea would exist.

That's an interesting spin. So you equate manipulating the system for easy Matches with using a 7* to get Points for Hero Use.
Then you're justifying it with being entitled to do so because you put time and effort into the game.
Strange take.

The strange take is to think that people who actually put a lot of work on their accounts did it just to bully small accounts instead of enjoying the game; but ok.
And exactly how are thet manipulating easy matches? Deck sandbagging is fixed, are you still going on about camping Plat for points? Its partially fixed with seeding, it will get completely fixed season after season.
The 1 and only thing that won't get fixed is the shelter ending on Plat2 and people still crying about it.

GroundedWisdom

BringPopcorn said:

T

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

Taking advantage of a system is not the same as taking advantage of other players is it?
Using 7* and run them thru low content for "Hero Use" points is not the same as using a small account as a stepping stone, is it?
Seems like you have an axe to grind, specially since Kabam is doing everything possible to actually keep a matchmaking shelter up to a pretty decent ammount of rewards.
You told me not to patronize you, its really hard not to do, specially when you think that big accounts that did most of the content, everest contet and events, spent all their time and resources to "take advantage" of lower accounts.
That was my sole purpose of time, money, and resources spent for years, have an account strong enough to bully small accounts in a game mode that I had no idea would exist.

That's an interesting spin. So you equate manipulating the system for easy Matches with using a 7* to get Points for Hero Use.
Then you're justifying it with being entitled to do so because you put time and effort into the game.
Strange take.

The strange take is to think that people who actually put a lot of work on their accounts did it just to bully small accounts instead of enjoying the game; but ok.

You're ignoring the fact that it isn't the Arena, or a piece of content. You're not talking about fighting AI alone. You're talking about coming up against actual Players in a semi-live competition, and manipulating the Matches affects their progress as well as the system overall. You can claim it's the Players' right, but it's garbage gaming all-around.

Denslo500

I think they need to adjust what you win, based on who you face.

Win an easy match, only get 1 coin.
Win a standard match, win 2 coins.
Beat a guy with triple your account size, get 4 coins.

Incentivize getting hard matches.

BringPopcorn

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

T

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

Taking advantage of a system is not the same as taking advantage of other players is it?
Using 7* and run them thru low content for "Hero Use" points is not the same as using a small account as a stepping stone, is it?
Seems like you have an axe to grind, specially since Kabam is doing everything possible to actually keep a matchmaking shelter up to a pretty decent ammount of rewards.
You told me not to patronize you, its really hard not to do, specially when you think that big accounts that did most of the content, everest contet and events, spent all their time and resources to "take advantage" of lower accounts.
That was my sole purpose of time, money, and resources spent for years, have an account strong enough to bully small accounts in a game mode that I had no idea would exist.

That's an interesting spin. So you equate manipulating the system for easy Matches with using a 7* to get Points for Hero Use.
Then you're justifying it with being entitled to do so because you put time and effort into the game.
Strange take.

The strange take is to think that people who actually put a lot of work on their accounts did it just to bully small accounts instead of enjoying the game; but ok.

You're ignoring the fact that it isn't the Arena, or a piece of content. You're not talking about fighting AI alone. You're talking about coming up against actual Players in a semi-live competition, and manipulating the Matches affects their progress as well as the system overall. You can claim it's the Players' right, but it's garbage gaming all-around.

And you are ignoring that for every winner there has to be a loser. Which explain a lot why you want the old coin win/loss system back, since that way for every winner the loser would only lose half.
You don't want a fair competition even with the current parameters, you want a game mode where you can actually succeed.

GroundedWisdom

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

T

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

Taking advantage of a system is not the same as taking advantage of other players is it?
Using 7* and run them thru low content for "Hero Use" points is not the same as using a small account as a stepping stone, is it?
Seems like you have an axe to grind, specially since Kabam is doing everything possible to actually keep a matchmaking shelter up to a pretty decent ammount of rewards.
You told me not to patronize you, its really hard not to do, specially when you think that big accounts that did most of the content, everest contet and events, spent all their time and resources to "take advantage" of lower accounts.
That was my sole purpose of time, money, and resources spent for years, have an account strong enough to bully small accounts in a game mode that I had no idea would exist.

That's an interesting spin. So you equate manipulating the system for easy Matches with using a 7* to get Points for Hero Use.
Then you're justifying it with being entitled to do so because you put time and effort into the game.
Strange take.

The strange take is to think that people who actually put a lot of work on their accounts did it just to bully small accounts instead of enjoying the game; but ok.

You're ignoring the fact that it isn't the Arena, or a piece of content. You're not talking about fighting AI alone. You're talking about coming up against actual Players in a semi-live competition, and manipulating the Matches affects their progress as well as the system overall. You can claim it's the Players' right, but it's garbage gaming all-around.

And you are ignoring that for every winner there has to be a loser. Which explain a lot why you want the old coin win/loss system back, since that way for every winner the loser would only lose half.
You don't want a fair competition even with the current parameters, you want a game mode where you can actually succeed.

That's literally salt on a wound for these people. You have Players who are willing to Tank, and Sandbag, and whatever else they can do (which is what we're discussing right now), and your response is "Someone has to win and someone has to lose.". That's not placating anything, and it's obvious.
When someone loses because they played their best and lost, that's easy to accept. When someone loses because the system, or other Players via the system, have placed them in Matches they cannot win, that's not easy to accept. That's the issue.
Quite literally, actually. You have a couple minutes to fight, a scoring metric that rewards not getting hit more than taking your opponent faster and more efficiently, and variations in CR/DR that are multiplied by 300% Health and 100% Attack. Not to mention Champs that are insanely OP.
So when that difference in strength is over-inflated, it's infuriating. If this happens naturally, as it should, the Player has reached their plateau. They can come back and work towards getting better the next Season.
When Players are expediting that process artificially just for their own benefit, that's not something anyone is entitled to do, regardless of how long they've played, or how much they've spent.
TL:DR - No **** Sherlock.

Ironman3000

If a paragon is tanking, doesn't that mean that another player is gaining a free win?

GroundedWisdom

Ironman3000 said:

If a paragon is tanking, doesn't that mean that another player is gaining a free win?

You mean a Paragon is bastardizing the Matchmaking system to give a bye, take a Match, pass them on to the next strong Account to take advantage of the Win, and screw up the natural train of progress? Sure.

BringPopcorn

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

T

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

Taking advantage of a system is not the same as taking advantage of other players is it?
Using 7* and run them thru low content for "Hero Use" points is not the same as using a small account as a stepping stone, is it?
Seems like you have an axe to grind, specially since Kabam is doing everything possible to actually keep a matchmaking shelter up to a pretty decent ammount of rewards.
You told me not to patronize you, its really hard not to do, specially when you think that big accounts that did most of the content, everest contet and events, spent all their time and resources to "take advantage" of lower accounts.
That was my sole purpose of time, money, and resources spent for years, have an account strong enough to bully small accounts in a game mode that I had no idea would exist.

That's an interesting spin. So you equate manipulating the system for easy Matches with using a 7* to get Points for Hero Use.
Then you're justifying it with being entitled to do so because you put time and effort into the game.
Strange take.

The strange take is to think that people who actually put a lot of work on their accounts did it just to bully small accounts instead of enjoying the game; but ok.

You're ignoring the fact that it isn't the Arena, or a piece of content. You're not talking about fighting AI alone. You're talking about coming up against actual Players in a semi-live competition, and manipulating the Matches affects their progress as well as the system overall. You can claim it's the Players' right, but it's garbage gaming all-around.

And you are ignoring that for every winner there has to be a loser. Which explain a lot why you want the old coin win/loss system back, since that way for every winner the loser would only lose half.
You don't want a fair competition even with the current parameters, you want a game mode where you can actually succeed.

That's literally salt on a wound for these people. You have Players who are willing to Tank, and Sandbag, and whatever else they can do (which is what we're discussing right now), and your response is "Someone has to win and someone has to lose.". That's not placating anything, and it's obvious.
When someone loses because they played their best and lost, that's easy to accept. When someone loses because the system, or other Players via the system, have placed them in Matches they cannot win, that's not easy to accept. That's the issue.
Quite literally, actually. You have a couple minutes to fight, a scoring metric that rewards not getting hit more than taking your opponent faster and more efficiently, and variations in CR/DR that are multiplied by 300% Health and 100% Attack. Not to mention Champs that are insanely OP.
So when that difference in strength is over-inflated, it's infuriating. If this happens naturally, as it should, the Player has reached their plateau. They can come back and work towards getting better the next Season.
When Players are expediting that process artificially just for their own benefit, that's not something anyone is entitled to do, regardless of how long they've played, or how much they've spent.
TL:DR - No **** Sherlock.

You get so mad you talk non sense... and here we go with the passive aggresive attitude calling me Sherlock...
Really they play against 300% health and 100% attack? Do i fight against 200% and 50% attack? No both people fight the same % increases so how is that even a factor Watson? Champs are extremely OP lol, You mean their roster development is strong, and maybe their variety is better, thats RNG. I gotta start feeling bad about my choice of rank ups now cause of lower players? Its a game mode where my sole purpose is to make the other player lose, under the same exact HP and ATK rating multipliers rofl, how is that even an argument.
I can be passive aggresive too Watson, and say that there is a reason why you don't sit on your trophies and spend them all, you don't really earn that many trophies being stuck in Gold in the first place do you?

Stature

BringPopcorn said:

The strange take is to think that people who actually put a lot of work on their accounts did it just to bully small accounts instead of enjoying the game;

Why is your enjoyment of the game contingent on weaker account not progressing in BG? You don't want to face them, they don't want to face you. They are getting rewards you wouldn't bother with for playing in BG. Just ignore them, let them have their little competition and pretend store with T4Bs and overpriced 6-star shards while you enjoy your T6 catalysts and 7-star shards.

They really can't go much beyond plat, more tiers have been added above that, further devaluing where they get to. Why is there a need to push them down even more and cut back on the scraps they get?

BringPopcorn

Stature said:

BringPopcorn said:

The strange take is to think that people who actually put a lot of work on their accounts did it just to bully small accounts instead of enjoying the game;

Why is your enjoyment of the game contingent on weaker account not progressing in BG? You don't want to face them, they don't want to face you. They are getting rewards you wouldn't bother with for playing in BG. Just ignore them, let them have their little competition and pretend store with T4Bs and overpriced 6-star shards while you enjoy your T6 catalysts and 7-star shards.

They really can't go much beyond plat, more tiers have been added above that, further devaluing where they get to. Why is there a need to push them down even more and cut back on the scraps they get?

Who said so? Who said others shouldn't progress?
Who said anything about going beyond Plat or even GC? Did I ever say I am the best, everyone else is below me?.. I have an issue with people saying that they can't win because the matchmaking is unfair. If they advance great for them I have no issue with that.
You think further tiers were added to keep them away, sure the whole game rotated around them.
They made more tiers to make seeding work, so players don't get to GC right away not to keep lower players out With seeding starting at Plat1 GC players would be back in GC too quick, not everything is a conspiracy and roadblock for smaller accounts.
11 seasons and we are still discussing about how to get some or make it fair for smaller accounts instead of making BGs more exciting or better. 11 seasons thats over a year of just accomodate whinning..

Ironman3000

GroundedWisdom said:

Ironman3000 said:

If a paragon is tanking, doesn't that mean that another player is gaining a free win?

You mean a Paragon is bastardizing the Matchmaking system to give a bye, take a Match, pass them on to the next strong Account to take advantage of the Win, and screw up the natural train of progress? Sure.

So you're admitting that if a Paragon is tanking then he is giving just as many free wins as he's taking. Seems like a non-issue.

GroundedWisdom

Ironman3000 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Ironman3000 said:

If a paragon is tanking, doesn't that mean that another player is gaining a free win?

You mean a Paragon is bastardizing the Matchmaking system to give a bye, take a Match, pass them on to the next strong Account to take advantage of the Win, and screw up the natural train of progress? Sure.

So you're admitting that if a Paragon is tanking then he is giving just as many free wins as he's taking. Seems like a non-issue.

Now that's just intentional denial.

GroundedWisdom

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

T

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

Taking advantage of a system is not the same as taking advantage of other players is it?
Using 7* and run them thru low content for "Hero Use" points is not the same as using a small account as a stepping stone, is it?
Seems like you have an axe to grind, specially since Kabam is doing everything possible to actually keep a matchmaking shelter up to a pretty decent ammount of rewards.
You told me not to patronize you, its really hard not to do, specially when you think that big accounts that did most of the content, everest contet and events, spent all their time and resources to "take advantage" of lower accounts.
That was my sole purpose of time, money, and resources spent for years, have an account strong enough to bully small accounts in a game mode that I had no idea would exist.

That's an interesting spin. So you equate manipulating the system for easy Matches with using a 7* to get Points for Hero Use.
Then you're justifying it with being entitled to do so because you put time and effort into the game.
Strange take.

The strange take is to think that people who actually put a lot of work on their accounts did it just to bully small accounts instead of enjoying the game; but ok.

You're ignoring the fact that it isn't the Arena, or a piece of content. You're not talking about fighting AI alone. You're talking about coming up against actual Players in a semi-live competition, and manipulating the Matches affects their progress as well as the system overall. You can claim it's the Players' right, but it's garbage gaming all-around.

And you are ignoring that for every winner there has to be a loser. Which explain a lot why you want the old coin win/loss system back, since that way for every winner the loser would only lose half.
You don't want a fair competition even with the current parameters, you want a game mode where you can actually succeed.

That's literally salt on a wound for these people. You have Players who are willing to Tank, and Sandbag, and whatever else they can do (which is what we're discussing right now), and your response is "Someone has to win and someone has to lose.". That's not placating anything, and it's obvious.
When someone loses because they played their best and lost, that's easy to accept. When someone loses because the system, or other Players via the system, have placed them in Matches they cannot win, that's not easy to accept. That's the issue.
Quite literally, actually. You have a couple minutes to fight, a scoring metric that rewards not getting hit more than taking your opponent faster and more efficiently, and variations in CR/DR that are multiplied by 300% Health and 100% Attack. Not to mention Champs that are insanely OP.
So when that difference in strength is over-inflated, it's infuriating. If this happens naturally, as it should, the Player has reached their plateau. They can come back and work towards getting better the next Season.
When Players are expediting that process artificially just for their own benefit, that's not something anyone is entitled to do, regardless of how long they've played, or how much they've spent.
TL:DR - No **** Sherlock.

You get so mad you talk non sense... and here we go with the passive aggresive attitude calling me Sherlock...
Really they play against 300% health and 100% attack? Do i fight against 200% and 50% attack? No both people fight the same % increases so how is that even a factor Watson? Champs are extremely OP lol, You mean their roster development is strong, and maybe their variety is better, thats RNG. I gotta start feeling bad about my choice of rank ups now cause of lower players? Its a game mode where my sole purpose is to make the other player lose, under the same exact HP and ATK rating multipliers rofl, how is that even an argument.
I can be passive aggresive too Watson, and say that there is a reason why you don't sit on your trophies and spend them all, you don't really earn that many trophies being stuck in Gold in the first place do you?

Both people fight the same increase. Are you using their Roster? Are you using the difference in Sigs, Rarities, Ranks, and ultimately CR difference? I could argue they're working twice as hard in that 2 minute span because they're fighting uphill with the reduced Damage their Champs are inflicting. I don't know what world you think it's the same, but this ain't it.

Ironman3000

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

T

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

Taking advantage of a system is not the same as taking advantage of other players is it?
Using 7* and run them thru low content for "Hero Use" points is not the same as using a small account as a stepping stone, is it?
Seems like you have an axe to grind, specially since Kabam is doing everything possible to actually keep a matchmaking shelter up to a pretty decent ammount of rewards.
You told me not to patronize you, its really hard not to do, specially when you think that big accounts that did most of the content, everest contet and events, spent all their time and resources to "take advantage" of lower accounts.
That was my sole purpose of time, money, and resources spent for years, have an account strong enough to bully small accounts in a game mode that I had no idea would exist.

That's an interesting spin. So you equate manipulating the system for easy Matches with using a 7* to get Points for Hero Use.
Then you're justifying it with being entitled to do so because you put time and effort into the game.
Strange take.

The strange take is to think that people who actually put a lot of work on their accounts did it just to bully small accounts instead of enjoying the game; but ok.

You're ignoring the fact that it isn't the Arena, or a piece of content. You're not talking about fighting AI alone. You're talking about coming up against actual Players in a semi-live competition, and manipulating the Matches affects their progress as well as the system overall. You can claim it's the Players' right, but it's garbage gaming all-around.

And you are ignoring that for every winner there has to be a loser. Which explain a lot why you want the old coin win/loss system back, since that way for every winner the loser would only lose half.
You don't want a fair competition even with the current parameters, you want a game mode where you can actually succeed.

That's literally salt on a wound for these people. You have Players who are willing to Tank, and Sandbag, and whatever else they can do (which is what we're discussing right now), and your response is "Someone has to win and someone has to lose.". That's not placating anything, and it's obvious.
When someone loses because they played their best and lost, that's easy to accept. When someone loses because the system, or other Players via the system, have placed them in Matches they cannot win, that's not easy to accept. That's the issue.
Quite literally, actually. You have a couple minutes to fight, a scoring metric that rewards not getting hit more than taking your opponent faster and more efficiently, and variations in CR/DR that are multiplied by 300% Health and 100% Attack. Not to mention Champs that are insanely OP.
So when that difference in strength is over-inflated, it's infuriating. If this happens naturally, as it should, the Player has reached their plateau. They can come back and work towards getting better the next Season.
When Players are expediting that process artificially just for their own benefit, that's not something anyone is entitled to do, regardless of how long they've played, or how much they've spent.
TL:DR - No **** Sherlock.

You get so mad you talk non sense... and here we go with the passive aggresive attitude calling me Sherlock...
Really they play against 300% health and 100% attack? Do i fight against 200% and 50% attack? No both people fight the same % increases so how is that even a factor Watson? Champs are extremely OP lol, You mean their roster development is strong, and maybe their variety is better, thats RNG. I gotta start feeling bad about my choice of rank ups now cause of lower players? Its a game mode where my sole purpose is to make the other player lose, under the same exact HP and ATK rating multipliers rofl, how is that even an argument.
I can be passive aggresive too Watson, and say that there is a reason why you don't sit on your trophies and spend them all, you don't really earn that many trophies being stuck in Gold in the first place do you?

Both people fight the same increase. Are you using their Roster? Are you using the difference in Sigs, Rarities, Ranks, and ultimately CR difference? I could argue they're working twice as hard in that 2 minute span because they're fighting uphill with the reduced Damage their Champs are inflicting. I don't know what world you think it's the same, but this ain't it.

You are arguing so many different points and sides that I think you're confusing yourself.

Your arguments boils down to: the player who wins a match actually be the one who loses the match and the player who loses the match should actually be the player who wins the match.

BringPopcorn

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

T

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

Taking advantage of a system is not the same as taking advantage of other players is it?
Using 7* and run them thru low content for "Hero Use" points is not the same as using a small account as a stepping stone, is it?
Seems like you have an axe to grind, specially since Kabam is doing everything possible to actually keep a matchmaking shelter up to a pretty decent ammount of rewards.
You told me not to patronize you, its really hard not to do, specially when you think that big accounts that did most of the content, everest contet and events, spent all their time and resources to "take advantage" of lower accounts.
That was my sole purpose of time, money, and resources spent for years, have an account strong enough to bully small accounts in a game mode that I had no idea would exist.

That's an interesting spin. So you equate manipulating the system for easy Matches with using a 7* to get Points for Hero Use.
Then you're justifying it with being entitled to do so because you put time and effort into the game.
Strange take.

The strange take is to think that people who actually put a lot of work on their accounts did it just to bully small accounts instead of enjoying the game; but ok.

You're ignoring the fact that it isn't the Arena, or a piece of content. You're not talking about fighting AI alone. You're talking about coming up against actual Players in a semi-live competition, and manipulating the Matches affects their progress as well as the system overall. You can claim it's the Players' right, but it's garbage gaming all-around.

And you are ignoring that for every winner there has to be a loser. Which explain a lot why you want the old coin win/loss system back, since that way for every winner the loser would only lose half.
You don't want a fair competition even with the current parameters, you want a game mode where you can actually succeed.

That's literally salt on a wound for these people. You have Players who are willing to Tank, and Sandbag, and whatever else they can do (which is what we're discussing right now), and your response is "Someone has to win and someone has to lose.". That's not placating anything, and it's obvious.
When someone loses because they played their best and lost, that's easy to accept. When someone loses because the system, or other Players via the system, have placed them in Matches they cannot win, that's not easy to accept. That's the issue.
Quite literally, actually. You have a couple minutes to fight, a scoring metric that rewards not getting hit more than taking your opponent faster and more efficiently, and variations in CR/DR that are multiplied by 300% Health and 100% Attack. Not to mention Champs that are insanely OP.
So when that difference in strength is over-inflated, it's infuriating. If this happens naturally, as it should, the Player has reached their plateau. They can come back and work towards getting better the next Season.
When Players are expediting that process artificially just for their own benefit, that's not something anyone is entitled to do, regardless of how long they've played, or how much they've spent.
TL:DR - No **** Sherlock.

You get so mad you talk non sense... and here we go with the passive aggresive attitude calling me Sherlock...
Really they play against 300% health and 100% attack? Do i fight against 200% and 50% attack? No both people fight the same % increases so how is that even a factor Watson? Champs are extremely OP lol, You mean their roster development is strong, and maybe their variety is better, thats RNG. I gotta start feeling bad about my choice of rank ups now cause of lower players? Its a game mode where my sole purpose is to make the other player lose, under the same exact HP and ATK rating multipliers rofl, how is that even an argument.
I can be passive aggresive too Watson, and say that there is a reason why you don't sit on your trophies and spend them all, you don't really earn that many trophies being stuck in Gold in the first place do you?

Both people fight the same increase. Are you using their Roster? Are you using the difference in Sigs, Rarities, Ranks, and ultimately CR difference? I could argue they're working twice as hard in that 2 minute span because they're fighting uphill with the reduced Damage their Champs are inflicting. I don't know what world you think it's the same, but this ain't it.

Not sure what you are even talking about.
Are you talking about the camping issue?
It will get fixed with seeding soon.The fact that EVERYONE, even peoole who hate BGs are playing for the Ascendance dust objective is an anomally. Yes its wrong from Kabam to force feed a new exciting rank up material in game modes people don't like. You will have monster accounts that never cared for BGs in lower tiers grinding the objectives, eventually it gets fixed cause they will keep on getting seeded higher.
Weak Vs Strong? There is a matchmaking shelter up to Plat2. If they are working twice as hard they need to work on their roster strength. I'm not going to feel bad about using my 6r5 max sig Doom and start calculating the HP and Atk % increase and feel sorry about someone bringing a 5r5 ascended. Its a skill & roster bssed competition not a pity contest.
My sole purpose of a BG match is making the other person Lose, not calculate if they are working twice as hard to beat me.
So what is your solution? Give everyone a defaulted same deck and let them compete? How is this profitable for Kabam? What's my incentive to rank up champs and use sig stones on them?
Basically without knowing it you are admitting there are people not ready to compete because their roster makes them work TWICE AS MUCH in the 2 mins.

BringPopcorn

Ironman3000 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

T

GroundedWisdom said:

BringPopcorn said:

Taking advantage of a system is not the same as taking advantage of other players is it?
Using 7* and run them thru low content for "Hero Use" points is not the same as using a small account as a stepping stone, is it?
Seems like you have an axe to grind, specially since Kabam is doing everything possible to actually keep a matchmaking shelter up to a pretty decent ammount of rewards.
You told me not to patronize you, its really hard not to do, specially when you think that big accounts that did most of the content, everest contet and events, spent all their time and resources to "take advantage" of lower accounts.
That was my sole purpose of time, money, and resources spent for years, have an account strong enough to bully small accounts in a game mode that I had no idea would exist.

That's an interesting spin. So you equate manipulating the system for easy Matches with using a 7* to get Points for Hero Use.
Then you're justifying it with being entitled to do so because you put time and effort into the game.
Strange take.

The strange take is to think that people who actually put a lot of work on their accounts did it just to bully small accounts instead of enjoying the game; but ok.

You're ignoring the fact that it isn't the Arena, or a piece of content. You're not talking about fighting AI alone. You're talking about coming up against actual Players in a semi-live competition, and manipulating the Matches affects their progress as well as the system overall. You can claim it's the Players' right, but it's garbage gaming all-around.

And you are ignoring that for every winner there has to be a loser. Which explain a lot why you want the old coin win/loss system back, since that way for every winner the loser would only lose half.
You don't want a fair competition even with the current parameters, you want a game mode where you can actually succeed.

That's literally salt on a wound for these people. You have Players who are willing to Tank, and Sandbag, and whatever else they can do (which is what we're discussing right now), and your response is "Someone has to win and someone has to lose.". That's not placating anything, and it's obvious.
When someone loses because they played their best and lost, that's easy to accept. When someone loses because the system, or other Players via the system, have placed them in Matches they cannot win, that's not easy to accept. That's the issue.
Quite literally, actually. You have a couple minutes to fight, a scoring metric that rewards not getting hit more than taking your opponent faster and more efficiently, and variations in CR/DR that are multiplied by 300% Health and 100% Attack. Not to mention Champs that are insanely OP.
So when that difference in strength is over-inflated, it's infuriating. If this happens naturally, as it should, the Player has reached their plateau. They can come back and work towards getting better the next Season.
When Players are expediting that process artificially just for their own benefit, that's not something anyone is entitled to do, regardless of how long they've played, or how much they've spent.
TL:DR - No **** Sherlock.

You get so mad you talk non sense... and here we go with the passive aggresive attitude calling me Sherlock...
Really they play against 300% health and 100% attack? Do i fight against 200% and 50% attack? No both people fight the same % increases so how is that even a factor Watson? Champs are extremely OP lol, You mean their roster development is strong, and maybe their variety is better, thats RNG. I gotta start feeling bad about my choice of rank ups now cause of lower players? Its a game mode where my sole purpose is to make the other player lose, under the same exact HP and ATK rating multipliers rofl, how is that even an argument.
I can be passive aggresive too Watson, and say that there is a reason why you don't sit on your trophies and spend them all, you don't really earn that many trophies being stuck in Gold in the first place do you?

Both people fight the same increase. Are you using their Roster? Are you using the difference in Sigs, Rarities, Ranks, and ultimately CR difference? I could argue they're working twice as hard in that 2 minute span because they're fighting uphill with the reduced Damage their Champs are inflicting. I don't know what world you think it's the same, but this ain't it.

You are arguing so many different points and sides that I think you're confusing yourself.

Your arguments boils down to: the player who wins a match actually be the one who loses the match and the player who loses the match should actually be the player who wins the match.

He wants to win 2 and lose 0.5, which also makes no sense on his argument about tanking matches, it would be a lot more rewarding to tank matches if you win 2 coins and lose 1.

DNA3000

Stature said:

DNA3000 said:

Stature said:

DNA3000 said:

Every UC and Cav player who gets to GC is a Paragon who won't. If that's because those UC and Cav players did, or would have beaten that Paragon in a match then that's what's supposed to happen. But when it is because someone gave them an A for effort and let them in above other players who would have beaten them head to head, that's a competition failure.

This is not true. Even in a completely random matchmaking set up, it is likely that some UC/Cav players will make it through to GC with some luck.

Further, once a player moves up a tier, they cannot move down. If infinite matches were to be played, each of the VT tiers would end up with only one player as all others will move up. The limit on the number of players in GC is more than the number of players in BG. Even if there is a practical limit on how many players get to GC, it is not the UC/Cavs who are blocking the progress of Paragons but the scoring system which is in place. Additional tiers and higher token requirement was introduced to limit GC access, not siloed matchmaking. It's just a false narrative that UC/Cavs are blocking progress of Paragons, at levels which are of any significance. Just like the 'same rewards' argument when the actual usable resources are only accessible in the store.

in other words, if only the devs would let them, everyone could get into GC, so its their fault.

That's ridiculous. In terms of explaining to players what's happening, that's completely missing the point. In terms of trying to advocate for some sort of change, that's completely nonsensical.

If players want to know why the match maker works the way it does, and why that's fair, that explanation is out there. The devs are not going to forget they made a competitive ladder game mode and stop balancing the number of people to reach GC. However, if players want to claim that isn't fair and try to convince someone to change it, they are going to have to do a whole lot better than that. And I don't think it makes a lot of sense for me to try to help them in that regard.

I have a lot of respect for you, so it is frustrating to see you either deliberately misrepresenting what I have said or completely missing the point.

You were the one who made the claim that every UC/Cav progressing in BG is taking a spot away from a Paragon. I was just pointing out that what was changed when more people got into GC was the scoring system and the changes in response has been more VT tiers and a harsher scoring system. You don't need to gaslight an entire section of the player base to deflect from that change.

For the record, I'm happy with the status quo in BG. It would be nice if people stopped tell others who play within the rules of the game that their progress is undeserved.

I'm pretty sure I'm characterizing your post accurately. I said that in broad terms, every GC player that makes it into GC takes a spot away from another higher progress player. Your first words in reply were "That is not true." You then tried to support that refutation by saying that the devs made progress into GC harder. But that's the point. There is a limit on how many players will make it into GC. It isn't a hard limit, but a soft design limit and if more players make it into GC than this broad design limit, this signals to the devs that the VT tracks are not properly designed and they will tweak them until that broad number is met. Which means there's a limit on how many players will make it into GC because there's a limit on how many the devs will *allow* into GC.

We can say there's a limit, and when we give lower progress players an easier path to GC than higher progress players we are penalizing higher progress players by taking rewards from them and giving them to lower progress players. This acknowledges that the game mode has a design intent and that design intent limits progress into GC. Or we can say everyone could make it if only the devs would let them. You are clearly saying the latter. But that's a perspective that ignores the way games are made, that suggests developers are just a random cog in the wheel that sometimes interferes with players getting what they want.

GroundedWisdom

I'm talking about the same thing I've been talking about. You were justifying people manipulating the Matches with things like Tanking and Sandbagging because someone has to win and someone has to lose, and whatever else you consider a justification. Which is pretty trite.
Sure, people need to work on their Rosters. Some people aren't as strong as they need to be. What you're ignoring is the system is what needs to set those limits. Not other people who consider it their God-given right because they put time into their Accounts.
11 Seasons into it and people are still making excuses for the behavior that leads to the need for intervened Matches. It's asinine.

DNA3000

DrZola said:

This thread, like so many before it, demonstrates that “right mix” is elusive and may not be achievable at all. Eleven seasons in, the amount of expectations, envy, indignation and frustration from all sides makes it that much more difficult to achieve.

If I want a hundred and you want zero, the compromise position will be fifty and neither of us will ever be happy.

However, the bigger picture solution is to just give me my hundred now and make you unhappy, and then give you the zero the next time, and hope we both understand what's happening. And if we don't, hope we both go away and more understanding people take our place.

BringPopcorn

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm talking about the same thing I've been talking about. You were justifying people manipulating the Matches with things like Tanking and Sandbagging because someone has to win and someone has to lose, and whatever else you consider a justification. Which is pretty trite.
Sure, people need to work on their Rosters. Some people aren't as strong as they need to be. What you're ignoring is the system is what needs to set those limits. Not other people who consider it their God-given right because they put time into their Accounts.
11 Seasons into it and people are still making excuses for the behavior that leads to the need for intervened Matches. It's asinine.

Rofl show me where I was justifyung it?
Lets make it clear I find them to be scum strategy, I only said every win involves someone losing, you are the one who linked it to sandbagging and tanking. Putting objectives on a game mode not everyone likes causes that.
Funny you call it asinine, when I never complained about the game mode, just complained about the people crying about it. Yes 11 seasons of casual, low players complaning about matchmaking, and I am asinine for complaining about their complaints.
You are funny, and fighting a battle you will never win.

BringPopcorn

Tell Kabam to stop selling champs and ranking up mats if strong rosters shouldn't get rewarded. It's a gacha game. Its elitist from the moment they sell you that 3* Deadpool at the beginning of the game up to every single 4th of July and Cyber Monday.
I repeat you are mad at Kabam creating this game mode that doesnt reward lower players as much as you want.

GroundedWisdom

Mkay. Sure.