@DNA3000 sorry for the dumb question, but how did you build so many revives in your stash? I do the apothecary and daily challenges every day but that's only a max of 14 each in stash (1/day each).
Did you farm revives somewhere? Or just get them from oodles of free crystals?
Besides inventory and stash, I bought two of the Necropolis potion bundles which contained (among other things) 15 solo potions each, and during the run I opened a bunch of four hour crystals and got 23 more revives. I also have the Sigil which means my inventory cap for revives is 25 (each). I think I started off with 108 solo revives which combined with the 23 from crystals (and one from doing the 22 hr arena event during the run) was enough.
I didn’t do this, but one way to hold more revives is to not claim the 22 hr event rewards and let them build up in the reward claim bucket the way Brian does. Doing this can allow you to have even more potions effectively in your stash before they expire.
For everyone wondering just how odd this kind of run is, I asked Kabam if they could tell me if I was the slowest completion of Necropolis so far.
Nope. I wasn't even close. Apparently in terms of total run time, which means total time elapsed from the moment I entered Necropolis until the GM went down, which for me was about 64 hours, puts me currently in 152nd place. In other words, 151 players have already taken longer than I have. There's probably people in there now with longer run times that just haven't finished yet. They are probably orbiting near an event horizon like in Interstellar, but they are doing it.
So this is not a common thing, but this is also not an unheard of thing either. If you're out there and thinking you want to give Necropolis a try, but you don't think you can do it all in one go, but you also feel a little weird about spreading out the Necropolis over a week or more, don't feel bad. There's a bunch of people who simultaneously were crazy enough to tackle Necropolis in the first week, but also were willing to pace themselves across a period of several days. And I wasn't even close to being the slowest of them.
You can be excited about the content and want to do it, but also have time, physicality, or other constraints that compel you to actually do the content a piece at a time. Necropolis is not just for the absolute strongest players, although you do have to legitimately be an end game caliber player (it is end game content after all), and you don't have to be the kind of player that can blitz the content out in a couple hours. You just need to want to rise up to the challenge, manage resources carefully, study the fights, assemble the right team for your skill level, and then just bite the bullet and go for it.
Failure is an option, but it is not the only option for people like us. If you can take down things like Eternity of Pain, but things like Labyrinth and Abyss just seemed too daunting due to length, you're not alone, and you're also not locked out of Necropolis. Pace yourself, and it can be done, and there are more players doing it this way than you might think.
Also, we need about four million more deaths in there, so if you think you're not MSD-caliber, that's also fine. We need more like you in there. Get started.
Wished I had the champions for it I not going in with 5 stars ægon. So for now I wait gav 4 cystal to open later today to getting him then I decided from there
I did my first three runs (paths with Titania, Mr. Fantastic and Sauron) on Saturday, Sunday und yesterday.
To be honest i remember doing abyss (still need to do three paths combined with Carina challenges) being much more exhausting and annoying. I still have ptsd from the first two abyss paths, it just took soo long..
For Necropolis i ranked my 6 star aegon to 5, ascend and sig200 and it was doable. Standard Aegon team with proxima, heimdall, wiccan and nf (Titania path), shuri (mr fantastic path) or stryfe (sauron path because of evades on medium).
I am probably an average player and used about 8000 units total for three runs plus 200 of the 4 hour crystals and like 60 revives farmed before starting. Will do the other three paths as soon as i find the time, hopefully by playing better cut the costs. All in all i thought it would be more difficult than it is and rewards are awesome and totally worth the hassle.
I was wondering what the annoying fights on the other three paths (Jubilee, Red Goblin and Odin) are, does anyone have exprince what where the most painful fights and fights aegon can't do well?
One thing I learned is not to be too scared of Airwalker healing. I used R1 Wiccan and ended up taking 30-40% even when he healed 2 times. I'm assuming despair had a part to play though. But I do know for sure he healed around 5% omce
Looking at the node, does Neutralize do anything here? Did you have a particular rotation with Wiccan?
@altavista I didn't try the neutralize since it will push him to 3 bars(didn't test it myself but assuming that's what will happen). Tried a round by using Sp3 but tbh it's not really that much of a difference before it falls off. Like yes the damage boost is there but you'll have to reach Sp3 and only knickdowm using heavies so you might miss a window. Other than just pretty much just use Wiccan as you would.
I did my first three runs (paths with Titania, Mr. Fantastic and Sauron) on Saturday, Sunday und yesterday.
To be honest i remember doing abyss (still need to do three paths combined with Carina challenges) being much more exhausting and annoying. I still have ptsd from the first two abyss paths, it just took soo long..
For Necropolis i ranked my 6 star aegon to 5, ascend and sig200 and it was doable. Standard Aegon team with proxima, heimdall, wiccan and nf (Titania path), shuri (mr fantastic path) or stryfe (sauron path because of evades on medium).
I am probably an average player and used about 8000 units total for three runs plus 200 of the 4 hour crystals and like 60 revives farmed before starting. Will do the other three paths as soon as i find the time, hopefully by playing better cut the costs. All in all i thought it would be more difficult than it is and rewards are awesome and totally worth the hassle.
I was wondering what the annoying fights on the other three paths (Jubilee, Red Goblin and Odin) are, does anyone have exprince what where the most painful fights and fights aegon can't do well?
I’m studying some Normax videos on Wong right now and it looks like he has a terrific build for Necro. Odin in particular looks straightforward, and I would think he handles other defenders on those paths pretty well.
In case you didn’t guess, I recently awakened Wong and pulled a mystic 2-3, so I’m keen on champs that can provide cleaner runs.
I did my first three runs (paths with Titania, Mr. Fantastic and Sauron) on Saturday, Sunday und yesterday.
To be honest i remember doing abyss (still need to do three paths combined with Carina challenges) being much more exhausting and annoying. I still have ptsd from the first two abyss paths, it just took soo long..
For Necropolis i ranked my 6 star aegon to 5, ascend and sig200 and it was doable. Standard Aegon team with proxima, heimdall, wiccan and nf (Titania path), shuri (mr fantastic path) or stryfe (sauron path because of evades on medium).
I am probably an average player and used about 8000 units total for three runs plus 200 of the 4 hour crystals and like 60 revives farmed before starting. Will do the other three paths as soon as i find the time, hopefully by playing better cut the costs. All in all i thought it would be more difficult than it is and rewards are awesome and totally worth the hassle.
I was wondering what the annoying fights on the other three paths (Jubilee, Red Goblin and Odin) are, does anyone have exprince what where the most painful fights and fights aegon can't do well?
I’m studying some Normax videos on Wong right now and it looks like he has a terrific build for Necro. Odin in particular looks straightforward, and I would think he handles other defenders on those paths pretty well.
In case you didn’t guess, I recently awakened Wong and pulled a mystic 2-3, so I’m keen on champs that can provide cleaner runs.
Dr. Zola
What can wong take? I've Wong, wiccan, shuri all as 7* and intrigued on who best to take alongside aegon(with Prox/Heimdall) for runs. I can't get the hang of Kate, so she's not in the frame.
Thank you @DNA3000 for posting this! I too am older than the average player (not 50 yet but not far off) and your post has inspired me to attempt long-form content for the first time. I traditionally have avoided it and I have been slow to attain progression levels. But I'm going to attempt Necropolis soon, and for the benefit of the MCOC community, I'm going to contribute many, many deaths to the milestones.
I'm trying to summarize all the info I have learned in this thread (your results might vary as this is somewhat tailored to me and my roster).
For my team, I was looking at using:
Aegon (6* R4 ascended Sig 200 and I will rank up to 5) Proxima Midnight Nick Fury (DNA3000 already suggested that this might not be necessary and Thor might be better) Wiccan Heimdall
Tips from this thread:
Make sure to kill off Fury! (if he is on your team)
Revives and potions: I am stacking up both (and I have a lot of Crystals I can open) and about 3000 units.
Use optimal Masteries. (Anybody have any suggestions for best setups for each matchup? And looks like recoil should be swapped out for Grandmaster?)
Optimize Aegon relic. (Right now running Winter Soldier as my relic on Aegon. Does anybody have further info an relics causing problems with the Grandmaster prompts?)
All that being said, I've seen some say Doom is great for Air Walker and a few others. Any suggestions about that and who I would replace for him? Maybe swap out Fury for Doom based on DNA3000's info?
Any newer posts or YouTube videos that have additional suggestions?
Thank you! I greatly appreciate your posts and information!
I did my first three runs (paths with Titania, Mr. Fantastic and Sauron) on Saturday, Sunday und yesterday.
To be honest i remember doing abyss (still need to do three paths combined with Carina challenges) being much more exhausting and annoying. I still have ptsd from the first two abyss paths, it just took soo long..
For Necropolis i ranked my 6 star aegon to 5, ascend and sig200 and it was doable. Standard Aegon team with proxima, heimdall, wiccan and nf (Titania path), shuri (mr fantastic path) or stryfe (sauron path because of evades on medium).
I am probably an average player and used about 8000 units total for three runs plus 200 of the 4 hour crystals and like 60 revives farmed before starting. Will do the other three paths as soon as i find the time, hopefully by playing better cut the costs. All in all i thought it would be more difficult than it is and rewards are awesome and totally worth the hassle.
I was wondering what the annoying fights on the other three paths (Jubilee, Red Goblin and Odin) are, does anyone have exprince what where the most painful fights and fights aegon can't do well?
I’m studying some Normax videos on Wong right now and it looks like he has a terrific build for Necro. Odin in particular looks straightforward, and I would think he handles other defenders on those paths pretty well.
In case you didn’t guess, I recently awakened Wong and pulled a mystic 2-3, so I’m keen on champs that can provide cleaner runs.
Dr. Zola
What can wong take? I've Wong, wiccan, shuri all as 7* and intrigued on who best to take alongside aegon(with Prox/Heimdall) for runs. I can't get the hang of Kate, so she's not in the frame.
@Moosetiptronic , I got a solo on Red Goblin with Wong R1. And it was my first attempt too. He can take odin, airwalker, arkus,squirrel gurl
Thank you @DNA3000 for posting this! I too am older than the average player (not 50 yet but not far off) and your post has inspired me to attempt long-form content for the first time. I traditionally have avoided it and I have been slow to attain progression levels. But I'm going to attempt Necropolis soon, and for the benefit of the MCOC community, I'm going to contribute many, many deaths to the milestones.
I'm trying to summarize all the info I have learned in this thread (your results might vary as this is somewhat tailored to me and my roster).
For my team, I was looking at using:
Aegon (6* R4 ascended Sig 200 and I will rank up to 5) Proxima Midnight Nick Fury (DNA3000 already suggested that this might not be necessary and Thor might be better) Wiccan Heimdall
Tips from this thread:
Make sure to kill off Fury! (if he is on your team)
Revives and potions: I am stacking up both (and I have a lot of Crystals I can open) and about 3000 units.
Use optimal Masteries. (Anybody have any suggestions for best setups for each matchup? And looks like recoil should be swapped out for Grandmaster?)
Optimize Aegon relic. (Right now running Winter Soldier as my relic on Aegon. Does anybody have further info an relics causing problems with the Grandmaster prompts?)
All that being said, I've seen some say Doom is great for Air Walker and a few others. Any suggestions about that and who I would replace for him? Maybe swap out Fury for Doom based on DNA3000's info?
Any newer posts or YouTube videos that have additional suggestions?
Thank you! I greatly appreciate your posts and information!
There’s really too much to list a complete bullet list of everything I’ve learned about Necropolis, especially about every single fight, but I’ll just add here, in no particular order:
- Hit into block on Valkyrie right at the start of the fight. You won’t be unblockable and you’ll give her a pierce to get things going.
- Don’t be afraid of the degen in GM phase three if you bring reverse controls immune. People have been avoiding using reverse control immune in that phase, but players have discovered the degen scales with current health, not base health. That means that 2% degen will just keep getting smaller and smaller until it becomes miniscule when you have low health. It won’t kill you, and unless you’re good at reverse controls making reverse control errors will kill your much faster.
- Air Walker’s heal timer resets when he is knocked down, which for most special attacks happens at the end of the attack not the start. This means the timing can get ugly if you try to use a special to knock him down and the timer is low. Heavy attacks are the better choice most of the time in that fight. Once I learned that, I used specials *after* knocking him down, to get another clean reset at a time when I knew I had plenty of time. You can use specials at other times, but you have to know when too much time has counted off the timer and you won’t have enough time for your special to run completely to the end. If you misfire quit immediately (unless you are using Sandman or something that reverses heal).
- Before anything is banned by the GM, always heavy after Parry. You want him to ban knockdown before banning Parry, or you will have all kinds of fun trying to knock him down without using Parry and getting red tokens.
- Oh yeah, if you forget what has been banned already, there are icons over the Grandmaster for that. Somehow I missed that in all my runs. See videos of the GM fight and memorize them. Don’t bother until you actually get to the fight, of course.
- If you are using ramped up Aegon specifically, don’t panic if you do not feel you are getting the hang of the bans and dice and whatever. When you lose control of what’s happening, just attack. Even when he gets to three bars of power, just keep attacking. Ramped Aegon does a ton of damage, and you might as well get as much in per run as possible.
- If you get flustered in *any* fight, take a breather. Take two minutes and think about what’s going wrong.
I'm about to start a run. I'm going with aegon, proxima, america chavez,and prof x.
For my 5th person, I'm trying to decide between nick and heimdall, and im curious if you have an opinion on that @DNA3000?
Right now I'm leaning nick, because he boosts all of my other fighters, and it seems to me like 20% more dmg will be more useful than an r3 save at 1% health.
I see everybody say heimdall saved them a ton of revives, and i def need to conserve revives, but my champs are all r4, and i need the dmg output too.
What do you think? Was the heimdall save in your run worth giving up a 20% dmg boost?
I could also take nick and heimdall instead of AC, but it seems like she's going to be very helpful with airwalker, nova, cpn britain, and maybe even aarkus...
I'm about to start a run. I'm going with aegon, proxima, america chavez,and prof x.
For my 5th person, I'm trying to decide between nick and heimdall, and im curious if you have an opinion on that @DNA3000?
Right now I'm leaning nick, because he boosts all of my other fighters, and it seems to me like 20% more dmg will be more useful than an r3 save at 1% health.
I see everybody say heimdall saved them a ton of revives, and i def need to conserve revives, but my champs are all r4, and i need the dmg output too.
What do you think? Was the heimdall save in your run worth giving up a 20% dmg boost?
If the choice is between those two, I would take Heimdall.
Keep in mind that Nick is not 20% more damage. Nick is +20% attack. Ramped up Aegon is going to generally have at least three furies which would be +60% attack. So if we just look at that, Nick is boosting you from 160% attack to 180% attack, which is a net increase of 180/160 = 1.125, or about 12.5% more damage. This doesn't factor in recoil masteries, which I would recommend for most Aegon fights (they can make a mess of fights where you don't use Aegon, so you have to decide if you want to switch masteries in the middle of the run, or just run with a set up that works for all attackers, which likely doesn't lean on recoil as much).
Suppose you do go recoil. 3/3 Liquid courage is +30% attack, and 3/3 Double Edge is an additional +30% attack. With that you're up to +120% attack with three furies, which means Nick is now the difference between 220% attack and 240% attack, which is 240/220 ~= 1.09 or 9% more damage. That's still not insignificant, but I think Heimdall's revive will be more beneficial than 9% overall more damage output.
If on top of all of this you can do the "get hit in the face and get more Fury" thing with Aegon, that will dilute Nick even more. The fury buffs Aegon gets normally are +20% attack, but the hit to the face ones are +50% attack. If you could average out the uptime of those to average, say, two of them up all the time, you would then average 340% attack, which would mean Nick's synergy benefit would drop to 360/340 ~= 6%.
One final thing to consider. If not having Heimdall causes you to play more conservatively, so you don't even try to get those Fury-on-hit buffs at all, that in and of itself could hurt your overall damage by more than any of these other considerations. Those furies you get if you can consistently take the hit and then counterattack are so strong they are night and day differences in your damage. When I was in a rhythm getting those my yellow numbers looked twice as big in my runs. If Heimdall is what you need to try to perfect that style of play, he's worth is weight in gold.
On the subject, can I ask you about that "get hit in the face" fury for Aegon? Those only last 6 seconds, right? How do you take so many hits and survive long enough to fight? And do you have a trick on how to take only 1 hit instead of a whole combo?
On the subject, can I ask you about that "get hit in the face" fury for Aegon? Those only last 6 seconds, right? How do you take so many hits and survive long enough to fight? And do you have a trick on how to take only 1 hit instead of a whole combo?
Charge heavy while unstoppable, then release when you're hit. Incoming damage is capped to 5% while heavy charging, and while unstoppable you can break into the defender's combo with your heavy, and if you land the heavy the cooldown for doing this again drops from 15 seconds to 12. The furies last for six seconds, which means in a perfect world you could have them up for half the time.
I don't live in that perfect world, mind you, but that's the min/max possible with this.
Here's a rare moment of sanity when I remembered to do this:
And then I promptly lost my mind and used a special, forgetting that I had recoil. But you can see the dramatic difference in damage numbers from before I took the hit and after. I go from three furies to nine (because the number of furies you get on hit is one per 50 in your combo up to a maximum of six) and my yellow numbers go up from 12k-ish lights to 30k+ lights. That one little tactic is worth more than everything else combined, because you are getting six furies of +50% each, +300% attack total. Furies are constantly expiring so you aren't going to see max damage, but you will see consistently higher damage.
If you have a plethora of potions, and you're in a fight that is not killing you quickly, this would be a good reason to potion up a bit and allow yourself to take these hits. 5% per cycle for 2x to 3x damage is not a bad trade.
Also, weird long form content update. I wanted to practice my Shuri-fu somewhere, thinking about future exploration possibilities, and RoL wasn’t cutting it so I decided to practice in the Labyrinth. Before I knew it, Shuri had made it a quarter of the way around the outside, so I decided to just keep going. A few expiring potions and a couple revives later, and before I knew it I had a LoL completion. Which is hilarious.
I'm about to start a run. I'm going with aegon, proxima, america chavez,and prof x.
For my 5th person, I'm trying to decide between nick and heimdall, and im curious if you have an opinion on that @DNA3000?
Right now I'm leaning nick, because he boosts all of my other fighters, and it seems to me like 20% more dmg will be more useful than an r3 save at 1% health.
I see everybody say heimdall saved them a ton of revives, and i def need to conserve revives, but my champs are all r4, and i need the dmg output too.
What do you think? Was the heimdall save in your run worth giving up a 20% dmg boost?
If the choice is between those two, I would take Heimdall.
Keep in mind that Nick is not 20% more damage. Nick is +20% attack. Ramped up Aegon is going to generally have at least three furies which would be +60% attack. So if we just look at that, Nick is boosting you from 160% attack to 180% attack, which is a net increase of 180/160 = 1.125, or about 12.5% more damage. This doesn't factor in recoil masteries, which I would recommend for most Aegon fights (they can make a mess of fights where you don't use Aegon, so you have to decide if you want to switch masteries in the middle of the run, or just run with a set up that works for all attackers, which likely doesn't lean on recoil as much).
@DNA3000 , great analysis, I had always wondered about attacking ratings, fury, and boosts.
As a related exercise: How does Proxima's fury buff potency of +25% with Aegon math out in terms of his damage output?
I have been wondering how much decreased output I could expect if I dropped Proxima on subsequent Aegon runs. It doesn't seem as simple as taking 25% less health off the defender per Aegon revive without Proxima than with her.
If the choice is between those two, I would take Heimdall.
Keep in mind that Nick is not 20% more damage. Nick is +20% attack. Ramped up Aegon is going to generally have at least three furies which would be +60% attack. So if we just look at that, Nick is boosting you from 160% attack to 180% attack, which is a net increase of 180/160 = 1.125, or about 12.5% more damage. This doesn't factor in recoil masteries, which I would recommend for most Aegon fights (they can make a mess of fights where you don't use Aegon, so you have to decide if you want to switch masteries in the middle of the run, or just run with a set up that works for all attackers, which likely doesn't lean on recoil as much).
@DNA3000 , great analysis, I had always wondered about attacking ratings, fury, and boosts.
As a related exercise: How does Proxima's fury buff potency of +25% with Aegon math out in terms of his damage output?
I have been wondering how much decreased output I could expect if I dropped Proxima on subsequent Aegon runs. It doesn't seem as simple as taking 25% less health off the defender per Aegon revive without Proxima than with her.
I believe KamMCOC on twitter did a full analysis of how each synergy/mastery setup impacts aegons damage. id check that out, I think it has everything you're looking for.
If the choice is between those two, I would take Heimdall.
Keep in mind that Nick is not 20% more damage. Nick is +20% attack. Ramped up Aegon is going to generally have at least three furies which would be +60% attack. So if we just look at that, Nick is boosting you from 160% attack to 180% attack, which is a net increase of 180/160 = 1.125, or about 12.5% more damage. This doesn't factor in recoil masteries, which I would recommend for most Aegon fights (they can make a mess of fights where you don't use Aegon, so you have to decide if you want to switch masteries in the middle of the run, or just run with a set up that works for all attackers, which likely doesn't lean on recoil as much).
@DNA3000 , great analysis, I had always wondered about attacking ratings, fury, and boosts.
As a related exercise: How does Proxima's fury buff potency of +25% with Aegon math out in terms of his damage output?
I have been wondering how much decreased output I could expect if I dropped Proxima on subsequent Aegon runs. It doesn't seem as simple as taking 25% less health off the defender per Aegon revive without Proxima than with her.
I believe KamMCOC on twitter did a full analysis of how each synergy/mastery setup impacts aegons damage. id check that out, I think it has everything you're looking for.
If the choice is between those two, I would take Heimdall.
Keep in mind that Nick is not 20% more damage. Nick is +20% attack. Ramped up Aegon is going to generally have at least three furies which would be +60% attack. So if we just look at that, Nick is boosting you from 160% attack to 180% attack, which is a net increase of 180/160 = 1.125, or about 12.5% more damage. This doesn't factor in recoil masteries, which I would recommend for most Aegon fights (they can make a mess of fights where you don't use Aegon, so you have to decide if you want to switch masteries in the middle of the run, or just run with a set up that works for all attackers, which likely doesn't lean on recoil as much).
@DNA3000 , great analysis, I had always wondered about attacking ratings, fury, and boosts.
As a related exercise: How does Proxima's fury buff potency of +25% with Aegon math out in terms of his damage output?
I have been wondering how much decreased output I could expect if I dropped Proxima on subsequent Aegon runs. It doesn't seem as simple as taking 25% less health off the defender per Aegon revive without Proxima than with her.
it isn't. The Proxima synergy increases Fury potency, which basically means it makes the fury itself stronger, it doesn't add 25% more attack bonus or increase total damage by 25%. So if we're talking about Aegon's "normal" furies, they increase attack by about 20% of base. The Proxima synergy would increase the potency of that fury by 25%, or 20% * 1.25 = 25%. So Aegon's furies go from +20% attack to +25% attack. All alone, in isolation, if you had three of those your overall attack would be +60% normally, and +75% with the synergy, which means your total overall attack would go from 100 to 160 without, to 100 to 175 with. Comparing the two is comparing 175 to 160, which means the Proxima synergy would be increasing overall damage by about 175/160 = 1.09275, or about 9%. This assumes the furies are all up all the time which they won't be, but as a first order approximation that's about what you might expect.
Kam's charts show various combinations of stacking effects; although it is difficult to tease out individual ones in some cases, it does do a good job of summarizing many of the most likely min/max scenarios a player might contemplate.
@DNA3000 Thanks for this write up. Extremely helpful, particularly for a player who likely is in a similar age range and maybe not quite as skilled.
Having done my research, the two fights I’m most concerned about are Air Walker and the GM - in part due to the GM bugging but also because I had a rough time with him when I made Thronebreaker (did the fight at the height of the controls issues and before I was even as mediocre as I am now).
Given my concerns about the Airwalker fight, I’m giving serious thought to swapping out NF for Doom, who I think will make the Airwalker and CB fights much easier.
Thoughts on this? I understand it is basically a question of a worst case scenario on AW (say 20 or 30 revives?) vs. saving revives on the bulk of the other fights with the NF 20%. Not sure I’d save a full 20% on the rest of the run, but even if I did it seems like NF would pay out if I’m looking at anything over a 100 total revive run. Obviously the other benefit of keeping NF is that if the GM fight is still bugged and I’m largely brute forcing it, that extra 20% may be a bigger deal.
@DNA3000 Thanks for this write up. Extremely helpful, particularly for a player who likely is in a similar age range and maybe not quite as skilled.
Having done my research, the two fights I’m most concerned about are Air Walker and the GM - in part due to the GM bugging but also because I had a rough time with him when I made Thronebreaker (did the fight at the height of the controls issues and before I was even as mediocre as I am now).
Given my concerns about the Airwalker fight, I’m giving serious thought to swapping out NF for Doom, who I think will make the Airwalker and CB fights much easier.
Thoughts on this? I understand it is basically a question of a worst case scenario on AW (say 20 or 30 revives?) vs. saving revives on the bulk of the other fights with the NF 20%. Not sure I’d save a full 20% on the rest of the run, but even if I did it seems like NF would pay out if I’m looking at anything over a 100 total revive run. Obviously the other benefit of keeping NF is that if the GM fight is still bugged and I’m largely brute forcing it, that extra 20% may be a bigger deal.
I had the same thought about AirWalker and brought Doom instead of Nick. I never used him. It wasn’t a problem knocking AW down with Aegon, parry heavy worked fine and just kept an eye on the timer.
@DNA3000 Thanks for this write up. Extremely helpful, particularly for a player who likely is in a similar age range and maybe not quite as skilled.
Having done my research, the two fights I’m most concerned about are Air Walker and the GM - in part due to the GM bugging but also because I had a rough time with him when I made Thronebreaker (did the fight at the height of the controls issues and before I was even as mediocre as I am now).
Given my concerns about the Airwalker fight, I’m giving serious thought to swapping out NF for Doom, who I think will make the Airwalker and CB fights much easier.
Thoughts on this? I understand it is basically a question of a worst case scenario on AW (say 20 or 30 revives?) vs. saving revives on the bulk of the other fights with the NF 20%. Not sure I’d save a full 20% on the rest of the run, but even if I did it seems like NF would pay out if I’m looking at anything over a 100 total revive run. Obviously the other benefit of keeping NF is that if the GM fight is still bugged and I’m largely brute forcing it, that extra 20% may be a bigger deal.
I agree with the above. I think Air Walker is less about the perfect counter, and more about the perfect counter tactics. The most important thing to remember about AW is that his regen resets when he is literally knocked down, not when you hit him. So if you try to knock him down with a special, his heal will reset at the end of the special, not at the first hit. Which means he’s could gain the heal while you are running a special.
The better technique is to keep knocking him down with heavies to quickly reset the timer. And use the specials only when you have plenty of time. I eventually started using special s after already knocking him down or soon after, to make sure I had enough time.
Do that, and if you lose control of the fight and you know you won’t be able to get him reset fast enough just pause and quit out. Don’t wait for the heal, it heals too fast. He’s not too scary if you get into a reasonable rhythm. Just remember specials are not just a help, they are also a danger. Manage that, and it’s just a moderately tricky fight.
Like many others, I want to offer my appreciation for this thread and @DNA3000. I have never attempted Everest content outside of autorunning ROL, no grandmasters gauntlet, abyss, variants. Only halfway through RTTL as well. This quest was a target for me due to the rewards and more rewards in road to the crypt, as well as leveling up to Valiant.
I found it a lot easier than I was expecting, following getting Aegon ramped up. I brought 100 revives and 500 L3 potions. I got through it without dipping into my 4 hr crystal or unit stash, which was one of my goals.
My team was:
6R4 Aegon (R5 and Ascended following the Titania fight) 6R1 Proxima Midnight 5R2 Heimdall 6R4 Doom 6R3 Wiccan
Most fight were pretty straight forward. Nothing gave me fits, Captain Britain was the closest. Didn’t use Doom for any fights. Wiccan as a reverse control immune wasn’t helpful, he died pretty quickly and I thought I’d need to rank him up further to be able to stay in fights long enough to be useful. So, I used Aegon for the whole GM fight without too much difficulty. Building up to a SP3 took some doing, but I just cornered him until I had enough power, ignoring the 12 tokens of impotence I accrued along the way.
As discussed elsewhere, removing all offensive masteries for the Titania fight was a strategy I took, and allowed me to get nearly fully ramped in that one fight. Would recommend.
@Oakenshield i did exactly what you're comsidering, i.e. swapped Nick for Doom. (I did take heimdall thanks to @DNA3000 's analysis, and it was the right call.)
Doom was quite useful for the AW fight. I did it in maybe 3 revives with 6*r4 Doom. I also used him for Aarkus because I did really well ramping aegon on Titania. He's quite good for that fight too - as long as you have a 5* relic, you can outlast the powerlock timer in your combo and basically just doomcycle him to death.
Other than those two fights, I never ended up using him. I thought he would be good for cp'n Britain, but honestly, aegon is better because he'll just stay in reversed ctrls almost the whole fight. And after that i put on suicides, which is committing to aegon for the rest of the run.
Comments
I didn’t do this, but one way to hold more revives is to not claim the 22 hr event rewards and let them build up in the reward claim bucket the way Brian does. Doing this can allow you to have even more potions effectively in your stash before they expire.
I did my first three runs (paths with Titania, Mr. Fantastic and Sauron) on Saturday, Sunday und yesterday.
To be honest i remember doing abyss (still need to do three paths combined with Carina challenges) being much more exhausting and annoying. I still have ptsd from the first two abyss paths, it just took soo long..
For Necropolis i ranked my 6 star aegon to 5, ascend and sig200 and it was doable. Standard Aegon team with proxima, heimdall, wiccan and nf (Titania path), shuri (mr fantastic path) or stryfe (sauron path because of evades on medium).
I am probably an average player and used about 8000 units total for three runs plus 200 of the 4 hour crystals and like 60 revives farmed before starting. Will do the other three paths as soon as i find the time, hopefully by playing better cut the costs. All in all i thought it would be more difficult than it is and rewards are awesome and totally worth the hassle.
I was wondering what the annoying fights on the other three paths (Jubilee, Red Goblin and Odin) are, does anyone have exprince what where the most painful fights and fights aegon can't do well?
In case you didn’t guess, I recently awakened Wong and pulled a mystic 2-3, so I’m keen on champs that can provide cleaner runs.
Dr. Zola
I'm trying to summarize all the info I have learned in this thread (your results might vary as this is somewhat tailored to me and my roster).
For my team, I was looking at using:
Aegon (6* R4 ascended Sig 200 and I will rank up to 5)
Proxima Midnight
Nick Fury (DNA3000 already suggested that this might not be necessary and Thor might be better)
Wiccan
Heimdall
Tips from this thread:
- Make sure to kill off Fury! (if he is on your team)
- Revives and potions: I am stacking up both (and I have a lot of Crystals I can open) and about 3000 units.
- Use optimal Masteries. (Anybody have any suggestions for best setups for each matchup? And looks like recoil should be swapped out for Grandmaster?)
- Optimize Aegon relic. (Right now running Winter Soldier as my relic on Aegon. Does anybody have further info an relics causing problems with the Grandmaster prompts?)
All that being said, I've seen some say Doom is great for Air Walker and a few others. Any suggestions about that and who I would replace for him? Maybe swap out Fury for Doom based on DNA3000's info?Any newer posts or YouTube videos that have additional suggestions?
Thank you! I greatly appreciate your posts and information!
- Hit into block on Valkyrie right at the start of the fight. You won’t be unblockable and you’ll give her a pierce to get things going.
- Don’t be afraid of the degen in GM phase three if you bring reverse controls immune. People have been avoiding using reverse control immune in that phase, but players have discovered the degen scales with current health, not base health. That means that 2% degen will just keep getting smaller and smaller until it becomes miniscule when you have low health. It won’t kill you, and unless you’re good at reverse controls making reverse control errors will kill your much faster.
- Air Walker’s heal timer resets when he is knocked down, which for most special attacks happens at the end of the attack not the start. This means the timing can get ugly if you try to use a special to knock him down and the timer is low. Heavy attacks are the better choice most of the time in that fight. Once I learned that, I used specials *after* knocking him down, to get another clean reset at a time when I knew I had plenty of time. You can use specials at other times, but you have to know when too much time has counted off the timer and you won’t have enough time for your special to run completely to the end. If you misfire quit immediately (unless you are using Sandman or something that reverses heal).
- Before anything is banned by the GM, always heavy after Parry. You want him to ban knockdown before banning Parry, or you will have all kinds of fun trying to knock him down without using Parry and getting red tokens.
- Oh yeah, if you forget what has been banned already, there are icons over the Grandmaster for that. Somehow I missed that in all my runs. See videos of the GM fight and memorize them. Don’t bother until you actually get to the fight, of course.
- If you are using ramped up Aegon specifically, don’t panic if you do not feel you are getting the hang of the bans and dice and whatever. When you lose control of what’s happening, just attack. Even when he gets to three bars of power, just keep attacking. Ramped Aegon does a ton of damage, and you might as well get as much in per run as possible.
- If you get flustered in *any* fight, take a breather. Take two minutes and think about what’s going wrong.
For my 5th person, I'm trying to decide between nick and heimdall, and im curious if you have an opinion on that @DNA3000?
Right now I'm leaning nick, because he boosts all of my other fighters, and it seems to me like 20% more dmg will be more useful than an r3 save at 1% health.
I see everybody say heimdall saved them a ton of revives, and i def need to conserve revives, but my champs are all r4, and i need the dmg output too.
What do you think? Was the heimdall save in your run worth giving up a 20% dmg boost?
Keep in mind that Nick is not 20% more damage. Nick is +20% attack. Ramped up Aegon is going to generally have at least three furies which would be +60% attack. So if we just look at that, Nick is boosting you from 160% attack to 180% attack, which is a net increase of 180/160 = 1.125, or about 12.5% more damage. This doesn't factor in recoil masteries, which I would recommend for most Aegon fights (they can make a mess of fights where you don't use Aegon, so you have to decide if you want to switch masteries in the middle of the run, or just run with a set up that works for all attackers, which likely doesn't lean on recoil as much).
Suppose you do go recoil. 3/3 Liquid courage is +30% attack, and 3/3 Double Edge is an additional +30% attack. With that you're up to +120% attack with three furies, which means Nick is now the difference between 220% attack and 240% attack, which is 240/220 ~= 1.09 or 9% more damage. That's still not insignificant, but I think Heimdall's revive will be more beneficial than 9% overall more damage output.
If on top of all of this you can do the "get hit in the face and get more Fury" thing with Aegon, that will dilute Nick even more. The fury buffs Aegon gets normally are +20% attack, but the hit to the face ones are +50% attack. If you could average out the uptime of those to average, say, two of them up all the time, you would then average 340% attack, which would mean Nick's synergy benefit would drop to 360/340 ~= 6%.
One final thing to consider. If not having Heimdall causes you to play more conservatively, so you don't even try to get those Fury-on-hit buffs at all, that in and of itself could hurt your overall damage by more than any of these other considerations. Those furies you get if you can consistently take the hit and then counterattack are so strong they are night and day differences in your damage. When I was in a rhythm getting those my yellow numbers looked twice as big in my runs. If Heimdall is what you need to try to perfect that style of play, he's worth is weight in gold.
On the subject, can I ask you about that "get hit in the face" fury for Aegon? Those only last 6 seconds, right? How do you take so many hits and survive long enough to fight? And do you have a trick on how to take only 1 hit instead of a whole combo?
I don't live in that perfect world, mind you, but that's the min/max possible with this.
Here's a rare moment of sanity when I remembered to do this:
And then I promptly lost my mind and used a special, forgetting that I had recoil. But you can see the dramatic difference in damage numbers from before I took the hit and after. I go from three furies to nine (because the number of furies you get on hit is one per 50 in your combo up to a maximum of six) and my yellow numbers go up from 12k-ish lights to 30k+ lights. That one little tactic is worth more than everything else combined, because you are getting six furies of +50% each, +300% attack total. Furies are constantly expiring so you aren't going to see max damage, but you will see consistently higher damage.
If you have a plethora of potions, and you're in a fight that is not killing you quickly, this would be a good reason to potion up a bit and allow yourself to take these hits. 5% per cycle for 2x to 3x damage is not a bad trade.
I think I might swap out America for Doom, too. I have been using Doom for years and I'm really comfortable with his doom cycle.
Also, weird long form content update. I wanted to practice my Shuri-fu somewhere, thinking about future exploration possibilities, and RoL wasn’t cutting it so I decided to practice in the Labyrinth. Before I knew it, Shuri had made it a quarter of the way around the outside, so I decided to just keep going. A few expiring potions and a couple revives later, and before I knew it I had a LoL completion. Which is hilarious.
As a related exercise: How does Proxima's fury buff potency of +25% with Aegon math out in terms of his damage output?
I have been wondering how much decreased output I could expect if I dropped Proxima on subsequent Aegon runs. It doesn't seem as simple as taking 25% less health off the defender per Aegon revive without Proxima than with her.
This was very helpful to me.
Kam's charts show various combinations of stacking effects; although it is difficult to tease out individual ones in some cases, it does do a good job of summarizing many of the most likely min/max scenarios a player might contemplate.
Having done my research, the two fights I’m most concerned about are Air Walker and the GM - in part due to the GM bugging but also because I had a rough time with him when I made Thronebreaker (did the fight at the height of the controls issues and before I was even as mediocre as I am now).
Given my concerns about the Airwalker fight, I’m giving serious thought to swapping out NF for Doom, who I think will make the Airwalker and CB fights much easier.
Thoughts on this? I understand it is basically a question of a worst case scenario on AW (say 20 or 30 revives?) vs. saving revives on the bulk of the other fights with the NF 20%. Not sure I’d save a full 20% on the rest of the run, but even if I did it seems like NF would pay out if I’m looking at anything over a 100 total revive run. Obviously the other benefit of keeping NF is that if the GM fight is still bugged and I’m largely brute forcing it, that extra 20% may be a bigger deal.
The better technique is to keep knocking him down with heavies to quickly reset the timer. And use the specials only when you have plenty of time. I eventually started using special s after already knocking him down or soon after, to make sure I had enough time.
Do that, and if you lose control of the fight and you know you won’t be able to get him reset fast enough just pause and quit out. Don’t wait for the heal, it heals too fast. He’s not too scary if you get into a reasonable rhythm. Just remember specials are not just a help, they are also a danger. Manage that, and it’s just a moderately tricky fight.
I found it a lot easier than I was expecting, following getting Aegon ramped up. I brought 100 revives and 500 L3 potions. I got through it without dipping into my 4 hr crystal or unit stash, which was one of my goals.
My team was:
6R4 Aegon (R5 and Ascended following the Titania fight)
6R1 Proxima Midnight
5R2 Heimdall
6R4 Doom
6R3 Wiccan
Most fight were pretty straight forward. Nothing gave me fits, Captain Britain was the closest. Didn’t use Doom for any fights. Wiccan as a reverse control immune wasn’t helpful, he died pretty quickly and I thought I’d need to rank him up further to be able to stay in fights long enough to be useful. So, I used Aegon for the whole GM fight without too much difficulty. Building up to a SP3 took some doing, but I just cornered him until I had enough power, ignoring the 12 tokens of impotence I accrued along the way.
As discussed elsewhere, removing all offensive masteries for the Titania fight was a strategy I took, and allowed me to get nearly fully ramped in that one fight. Would recommend.
@Oakenshield i did exactly what you're comsidering, i.e. swapped Nick for Doom. (I did take heimdall thanks to @DNA3000 's analysis, and it was the right call.)
Doom was quite useful for the AW fight. I did it in maybe 3 revives with 6*r4 Doom. I also used him for Aarkus because I did really well ramping aegon on Titania. He's quite good for that fight too - as long as you have a 5* relic, you can outlast the powerlock timer in your combo and basically just doomcycle him to death.
Other than those two fights, I never ended up using him. I thought he would be good for cp'n Britain, but honestly, aegon is better because he'll just stay in reversed ctrls almost the whole fight. And after that i put on suicides, which is committing to aegon for the rest of the run.