I have no why people are dooming on the creators like they betrayed us or something 🤷♂️
Maybe cause two of them designed challenges that are extremely frustrating to complete? They obviously don't care about fun.
@ItsClobberinTime Have you actually tried them before coming to this conclusion? Genuinely asking. You said earlier you haven't logged on in 2 weeks.
The war global made me hate war, but you might make me quit. I assume it’s payback for the wilson jokes, so fair enough lol
@danielmath rightfully so. CJ Stroud is a stud, though.
Let's ride!
Completely unrelated, but I'm curious: seems like the Broncos are moving on from Wilson, so would you rather get Kirko Chainz, move up in the first round to try grabbing one of the 'stud QBs', or try to draft and develop someone that falls to the 3rd?
I have no why people are dooming on the creators like they betrayed us or something 🤷♂️
Maybe cause two of them designed challenges that are extremely frustrating to complete? They obviously don't care about fun.
@ItsClobberinTime Have you actually tried them before coming to this conclusion? Genuinely asking. You said earlier you haven't logged on in 2 weeks.
The war global made me hate war, but you might make me quit. I assume it’s payback for the wilson jokes, so fair enough lol
@danielmath rightfully so. CJ Stroud is a stud, though.
Let's ride!
Completely unrelated, but I'm curious: seems like the Broncos are moving on from Wilson, so would you rather get Kirko Chainz, move up in the first round to try grabbing one of the 'stud QBs', or try to draft and develop someone that falls to the 3rd?
@Illusionary Kirk would be a great option in Sean's system, but there's no way we have the cap space for that. With such a rich QB class this draft, if there's a guy that the staff really falls in love with, I think they have to figure out a way to move up and grab him. I have a feeling it's going to end up being JJ McCarthy.
I have no why people are dooming on the creators like they betrayed us or something 🤷♂️
Maybe cause two of them designed challenges that are extremely frustrating to complete? They obviously don't care about fun.
@ItsClobberinTime Have you actually tried them before coming to this conclusion? Genuinely asking. You said earlier you haven't logged on in 2 weeks.
I didn't even get to that Domino which I don't even know how you would kill with Zemo.
20 Gauntlet fights with Zemo alone? Come on... Look at this whole thread, there's a reason most people aren't happy about it.
Zemo can take Domino down in one go just by using Special 1's - the Power Shield boosts his bleed from the special by 400% - so after a few Special 1's, she absolutely melts. There's a strategy for him to take every fight in there.
Zemo was designed to be used in long form content where you have the freedom to bring 3-5 Zemo’s on the team, due to his House of Zemo synergy (which is the name of the title obtained). Each Zemo increases his bleed potency by 50% - hence, why there was a 2 star Zemo in the Avengers challenge. One cycle of SP2>SP1>SP1 leaves the defender taking a permanent 15,000 bleed damage per second.
There aren't many quests where you can bring 5 of one Champion - but Gauntlet is the perfect place to bring 5 Zemo’s on your team. There isn’t a single fight in the quest that he can’t handle. Lots of thought was put into that objective, and I made sure he was able to effectively take every single fight in the quest - so naturally, it's very frustrating & disheartening when I see people saying that myself, or Fin, didn't put any thought into these challenges before they even make an attempt - or that we're "out of touch" with the game, or community.
I understand your, and everyone else's, view here. I understand that it's very difficult, but these challenges were designed specifically to be very challenging and geared towards the players who have been craving this type of challenge to be made again. Because of this, they are optional permanent objectives (with rewards that aren't account changing), and revisit quests that were released 3+ years ago.
If that's how my comment came off then I do apologize, that's not how I meant it. What I meant was you guys are on another level when it comes to skill, and because of it something you find fun may or may not be fun for most of the playerbase that isn't at the same level as you guys which is obviously the case this time.
I'm not arguing difficulty in general, I'm arguing fun. I don't find your challenges or Fintech's fun, I think they are extremely annoying unlike Lagacy's challenges. I want challenging content, I'm all for it, but I want it to be fun in the same way Necropolis was.
This will be the 1st content in the history of mcoc that i will be skipping (except for the sparky stuff to get the KG piece). Last content i didn't do was the Coulson challenge ,i tried but couldn't do it. That was 8 years ago
Are these challenges worse than 4* starlord that you did even before Carina’s challenges were ever a thing?
Much worse ya, are you talking about LOL?
Sorry, but these challenges are not worse than the Labyrinth challenges from vol 1. No fight in the 4* labyrinth challenges was soloable- those were legitimate revive dumps that nobody could out-skill. These on the other hand (even fins) can be done for very cheap with proper knowledge and execution. People complain about this new batch as if its tuned just the same as those labyrinth ones, when they are in fact significantly more player-friendly and skill focused (fin made sure every single fight in his challenges were soloable). I know that being better than the vol 1 labyrinth challenges is a low bar, but these pass that bar easily, despite the complaints that its a mandatory resource drain.
Saying Fintech made sure the fights are soloable is the dumbest argument ever cause the % of the playerbase that grinds the game 24/7 like him is probably less than 5% lol.
I think you’re severely overestimating the amount of time i spend playing this game every day 😂
I know you don't actually spend the whole day playing the game but you definitely play it a lot lol. One doesn't just get that good at the game and win a tournament out of nowhere.
Whoa, 13-paged thread for all this and all that, the fact is---do the challenges if you enjoy the process, have fun if you can, and the rewards aren't that bad. Don‘t do it if you dont enjoy doing these challenges-- that's self torture. At the end of the day this is just a game. What's the point of "gamebreaking" rewards when you can play with ur favourite marvel characters and have fun? People are forgetting the point of this game. @Karatemike415, good job at designing these cool challenges
This came across very wholesome to me and I appreciate that and agree. If it's not fun, then move on from it. We should be enjoying ourselves here.
I have no why people are dooming on the creators like they betrayed us or something 🤷♂️
Maybe cause two of them designed challenges that are extremely frustrating to complete? They obviously don't care about fun.
@ItsClobberinTime Have you actually tried them before coming to this conclusion? Genuinely asking. You said earlier you haven't logged on in 2 weeks.
I didn't even get to that Domino which I don't even know how you would kill with Zemo.
20 Gauntlet fights with Zemo alone? Come on... Look at this whole thread, there's a reason most people aren't happy about it.
Zemo can take Domino down in one go just by using Special 1's - the Power Shield boosts his bleed from the special by 400% - so after a few Special 1's, she absolutely melts. There's a strategy for him to take every fight in there.
Zemo was designed to be used in long form content where you have the freedom to bring 3-5 Zemo’s on the team, due to his House of Zemo synergy (which is the name of the title obtained). Each Zemo increases his bleed potency by 50% - hence, why there was a 2 star Zemo in the Avengers challenge. One cycle of SP2>SP1>SP1 leaves the defender taking a permanent 15,000 bleed damage per second.
There aren't many quests where you can bring 5 of one Champion - but Gauntlet is the perfect place to bring 5 Zemo’s on your team. There isn’t a single fight in the quest that he can’t handle. Lots of thought was put into that objective, and I made sure he was able to effectively take every single fight in the quest - so naturally, it's very frustrating & disheartening when I see people saying that myself, or Fin, didn't put any thought into these challenges before they even make an attempt - or that we're "out of touch" with the game, or community.
I understand your, and everyone else's, view here. I understand that it's very difficult, but these challenges were designed specifically to be very challenging and geared towards the players who have been craving this type of challenge to be made again. Because of this, they are optional permanent objectives (with rewards that aren't account changing), and revisit quests that were released 3+ years ago.
I think the problem lies in the rewards. And if not, it's the difficulty or who it is targeted for. One or the other, or a combination of both.
Want to create a challenge for the 0.1% ? (I keep seeing 1% but it's less than that) Fine. Give them a profile pic or emote, like we got grief incarnate. Nobody complained about this piece of content, yet it was released for the 0.1%. I went for it myself when I had nothing else to do, I knew what I was going for, nothing but a flex profile pic. You just released this challenge in this specific piece of content which had just a profile pic attached and added shards and a part of the selectors. Hence modifying the purpose of this specific content, from optional and just for a PFP to a bit more than just that. Like someone said, CCP don't wait for in-game challenges to create their own. If you need a little extra, I think PFP, emotes or titles is where it's at.
Want to give unique set of rewards such as a unique 7 star champ selector ? Fine. But don't lock it behind the 0.1%. While they are not game breaking champs, they are still quite good. And outside of meta relevance, they may be someone favorite marvel character.
This challenges landed somewhere in the middle, in a grey zone, not good enough rewards to motivate the largest and justify the pain, too good to be seen as optional (while there is nothing in this game that can be considered optional, I mean the game in itself is so I find it silly to use that argument, I consider PFP, titles and emotes to be optional).
So a piece of advice for future challenges, fix the rewards or fix the target. Or a bit of both.
Probably worth reminding everyone that pretty much each batch of Carina's Challenges (save for the 7 for 7) became practically obsolete after a few months from release. In most cases the rewards are either not good enough, or not worth the effort required.
Stuff like Necropolis will have a far longer lifespan similar to how Abyss became the go to for people not yet Thronebreaker for a long while (by then Abyss had already been 10 months old) because the design offers large jumps in progression that are unique to the given piece of content.
This is not the case with the Carinas despite the fact a large portion of them would generally present equal or greater difficulty than milestone content like Necropolis for the average player. I strongly believe this was lost in translation for both KarateMike's and Fintech's challenges. Fintech especially came off as rather inconsiderate especially with how he stated that the content was soloable with the right strategy. Considering that Fintech had won the most prestigious event in MCOC last year, his statement loses all meaning when the fact is that virtually almost any player that can do these challenges will never have the same skill as Fintech and will end up burning revives that oddly were made harder to obtain.
If I remember correctly, it was said that revive farming was removed so that content wouldn't be trivialised by ham-fisted revive usage. It's strange then that the current endgame content demands ham-fisted revive usage for most of the players doing the challenge.
So which is it then? Is revive-farming trivialising content, or is the content already trivialised? It can't be both.
I say this with complete respect for the company, but you guys really need to think the recent direction of endgame content through again. Necropolis was great, the 7 for 7 was fun, hell the Lagacy challenges allow people to put a challenging but fun spin on more recent content. However WoW and most of these challenges aren't great and has seemed to drain the fun out of playing endgame content.
So I'll be very blunt with this.
If players aren't willing to do some of these challenges now. I highly doubt that they will ever do them.
I would love to play WOW... don't want to waste so many revievs for just 7* crystal and that 7* selector...after 2-3 month these will be outdated...will do these when I have nothing left to do...with revive orr they are going to expire...
For now WOW is much bigger thing than these garbage reward..
And offcourse these objectives and garbage rewards not on the lagacy, karatemike, fintech..they just did their thier part..m
If we talk about fintech objective i have to complete EOP all 16 annoying defender and then Thanos with jabari and tigra...I don't even know how much resources it will cost me..for single objective then i will get 5k 7* shards...
What a joke...
The game will always have extremely difficult content, just like there always has been. Realm of Legends was completed with 3 and 4-Star Champions with extremely basic abilities. ....
Not meaning to take part of your statement and make too much of it....
But doesn't KararateMike's challenge required is to do that, too?
The original Avengers; or at least those who haven't been reworked..
Black Widow (one ability - Subtlety) Thor (one ability - Armour Break) Iron Man Hawkeye
I have no why people are dooming on the creators like they betrayed us or something 🤷♂️
Maybe cause two of them designed challenges that are extremely frustrating to complete? They obviously don't care about fun.
@ItsClobberinTime Have you actually tried them before coming to this conclusion? Genuinely asking. You said earlier you haven't logged on in 2 weeks.
I didn't even get to that Domino which I don't even know how you would kill with Zemo.
20 Gauntlet fights with Zemo alone? Come on... Look at this whole thread, there's a reason most people aren't happy about it.
Zemo can take Domino down in one go just by using Special 1's - the Power Shield boosts his bleed from the special by 400% - so after a few Special 1's, she absolutely melts. There's a strategy for him to take every fight in there.
Zemo was designed to be used in long form content where you have the freedom to bring 3-5 Zemo’s on the team, due to his House of Zemo synergy (which is the name of the title obtained). Each Zemo increases his bleed potency by 50% - hence, why there was a 2 star Zemo in the Avengers challenge. One cycle of SP2>SP1>SP1 leaves the defender taking a permanent 15,000 bleed damage per second.
There aren't many quests where you can bring 5 of one Champion - but Gauntlet is the perfect place to bring 5 Zemo’s on your team. There isn’t a single fight in the quest that he can’t handle. Lots of thought was put into that objective, and I made sure he was able to effectively take every single fight in the quest - so naturally, it's very frustrating & disheartening when I see people saying that myself, or Fin, didn't put any thought into these challenges before they even make an attempt - or that we're "out of touch" with the game, or community.
I understand your, and everyone else's, view here. I understand that it's very difficult, but these challenges were designed specifically to be very challenging and geared towards the players who have been craving this type of challenge to be made again. Because of this, they are optional permanent objectives (with rewards that aren't account changing), and revisit quests that were released 3+ years ago.
I think the problem lies in the rewards. And if not, it's the difficulty or who it is targeted for. One or the other, or a combination of both.
Want to create a challenge for the 0.1% ? (I keep seeing 1% but it's less than that) Fine. Give them a profile pic or emote, like we got grief incarnate. Nobody complained about this piece of content, yet it was released for the 0.1%. I went for it myself when I had nothing else to do, I knew what I was going for, nothing but a flex profile pic. You just released this challenge in this specific piece of content which had just a profile pic attached and added shards and a part of the selectors. Hence modifying the purpose of this specific content, from optional and just for a PFP to a bit more than just that. Like someone said, CCP don't wait for in-game challenges to create their own. If you need a little extra, I think PFP, emotes or titles is where it's at.
Want to give unique set of rewards such as a unique 7 star champ selector ? Fine. But don't lock it behind the 0.1%. While they are not game breaking champs, they are still quite good. And outside of meta relevance, they may be someone favorite marvel character.
This challenges landed somewhere in the middle, in a grey zone, not good enough rewards to motivate the largest and justify the pain, too good to be seen as optional (while there is nothing in this game that can be considered optional, I mean the game in itself is so I find it silly to use that argument, I consider PFP, titles and emotes to be optional).
So a piece of advice for future challenges, fix the rewards or fix the target. Or a bit of both.
I think if the rewards have landed in a grey zone, that sounds ideal.
This is insanely difficult content; and I've no plans to try Mike's or Fintech's. I've started casually ranking up Sparky, though...
One perspective is that: what you want gated behind difficult challenges needs to be not worth the effort. If it's sufficiently rewarding to do, then the pressure to do it (and keep up/get ahead) is real.
I don't want that kind of pressure. For a challenge like this, I want the rewards to be something I can safely ignore.
If the rewards aren't worth it, but do have some kind of value to getting them (a solid but not God-tier attacking champion, for example) then that sounds about right.
Satisfying to finish, a nightmare to get done. Someone cooked here and fried my brain in the process. Thank you Fintech for reigniting my love in this beautiful creature.
To the players that this challenge was geared towards, taking those Champions to rank 3 would not be much of a burden at all. If you're still in the stage of the game where rank 3 resources for 6 stars are scarce, it might not be time to tackle it yet - and that's 100% okay, and also why it's permanent. The hope is that over time, players will have a 2>3 gem in their overflow, not know where to use it, and have a reason to toss it into Thor.
I just want to bring up a point. Getting catalysts for 6* r3s are not an issue for ages now (100+ t5b, t2a are always in my overflow). The main problem lately for me why I try to carefully rank up champs is gold and iso.
I am not tip-top 0.01%, but consider myself endgame player. My roster always feel behind just because I highly ever buy any offers or units and don't grind arena too much - it is fine though, it is my choice how much I spend/engage. My point is not about whether I should go for the avenger challenge or not - but I think there are other valiant players out there in my shoe. It would be nice if players could come to gold/iso a bit easier in the future.
Thank you @Karatemike415 for your work on this. While I personally do not see myself doing them for a long time/if ever/when they stop dropping new content and I can save up revives again, I do really appreciate how you are actively trying to help people.
For example, in the screenshot below, I initially thought that the Zemo fight against Domino would be near impossible. But you took the time to explain it on the forums, and also pointed out that you didn't (and Fintech) just slap together random stuff.
So thank you again for your interaction on the forums, even when a good chunk is slamming it.
Carina's Challenges intention is to give 1% top players something to do that requires all the skill and resources they dont have to use on other content.
The fact that we got some that would include "everybody" doesnt make it is the main intention of them.
This content is not supposed to be achievable by most of us, this is not meant to be hard skill wise, but not doable without spending resources.
Why you guys acting suddenly like this MUST be like you want it to be?
The same way nobody gets mad because Celestial in BGs is not achievable by everybody, we shouldnt get mad because is isnt either, because thats the intention behind this content.
If something is released to a demographic of Players, they're going to share their feedback on it. It's dismissive to say "It's not for you so don't complain.". It IS for them. It is content that's released into the game, that's available for them to play. If it's just a challenge among the Gods, then they can challenge themselves without releasing it as content. No one disputes the fact that it's not for everyone. Personally I don't have a horse in the race because I'm quite happy doing it whenever I'm ready. What I would like to point out that the argument that it's not for everyone might apply now and then, when you're talking about lower Players trying to punch above their weight. I still think it can be used dismissively by other Players at times, but it's valid now and then. I haven't seen that in this case. The Players who are complaining about it aren't new. They're at the latter stages of the game. They're literally the top percentile you're referring to. If they're not happy with it, they will communicate that, and it doesn't automatically mean they're spoiled or looking for an easy street. I know this because the Players who are complaining have been here for years, sharing their progress. Be careful using that statement. It doesn't always apply, and it can come off as ignorant. Just a suggestion.
If the player base that this content is supposed to hit is the one complaining right now, why are they complaining exactly?
I mean, If this people complaining have nothing else, anywhere to spend their resources on, as I said, as Its supposed to be for the people targeted by this challenge, why are they complaining? The first round of Carina's Challenge were not funny at all, those werent supposed to be beaten just with skills because the star level and the champion requirements were meant to also require revives, a ton of them or not, depending on how skilled you are, and people understood that yeah, maybe this content wasnt meant to be done the same way than the other content, and most of the people, even at the end-game spectrum, just ignored that content.
Why is this any different from Carina's Challenges 1? Why suddenly Carina's Challenge must be comfortable for the people? Why it must require less revives? Why it must be more inclusive within the communitys rosters?
It never was meant to be comfortable, never was meant to be enjoyable, never was meant to be doable by more than the Top of the top players, the ones that can reach Celestial every season as an example.
I dont really understand this sudden enragement against this content
I'm pretty sure most people are complaining because it's not fun, which you've already acknowledged. What is the point in releasing content that makes you want to delete the game on the spot instead of trying again? These fights are not fun, they're stressful. With Necropolis they proved they can make challenging content that's also fun, why are they going back to doing stuff like this which 90% of the playerbase doesn't enjoy?
The main reason when Carina's Challenge were released was to give people that had nothing to do some real challenges, the same way we had people doing X content with weird champs and uploading them on YouTube, this was for those bored xtremely end game players to have something to do meanwhile.
Im not a fan of those, I dont enjoy that content, and it is not even Content, since its just an additional objective if you wanna do it in already existing content, why would I be this angry about it?
I mean why get angry about Carina's Challenge that is supposed to be the way it is, and it is just an completely optional objective, non game changing, meant to challenge yourself not only skill-wise but your patience aswell.
Obviously is not for 99% of us, but this is an overexageration of the situation
Why? Cause there are good meaningful rewards locked behind them. If what they really want is to give these people something to do then give them pfps or titles for doing the challenges but don't lock any actual rewards behind them cause that's going to get people's attention and they're going to want to do them for obvious reasons.
I can guarantee you 99% of the people on this thread don't want to have their patience or sanity challenged this way. We want more stuff like Necropolis (which was also endgame content for players who had nothing else to do btw). This isn't about complaining about the challenges being tailored around endgame players it's more about the fact that Kabam is starting to go backwards after the massive W that Necropolis was.
I know there are meaningful rewards locked behind them, 7* Spidey 2099 is one of them for me, since its one of the only 6* I still dont have and I want him so bad, but Im thinking from the perspective that this is supposed to be what Kabam supposed to want it to be, If this was for everybody to do the same way WoW was meant for end-game players, I would be as mad as I am for the Abs Boss, but the idea is that this isnt for us like WoW is, its just for people whom this rewards are just like a "Hey, you did it, well done".
As I said Im going to do Miike ones after I finish the second one of Lags, Fintechs challenge is outrageous for me, but the diff I think it is supposed to be by the info Kabam stated, was that this is not like Necro since there is no "new" rewards, or no sustantial ones at least if you complete this objectives, unlike Necro that is really gamechanging.
I saw some Kabam's posts about the feedback about this objectives, maybe this isnt what they wanted to be like, and if so, then yeah, thats an L for them, if they were expecting this reaction from the community and it is, indeed, their intention to make this nearly impossible for 99% of us to do, then its just another content that is not going to be taking my time.
Depending on what Kabam wanted this to be, we should be either neutral, or angry, but as I say, it completely depends on what they wanted this content to be and for who.
Whoa, 13-paged thread for all this and all that, the fact is---do the challenges if you enjoy the process, have fun if you can, and the rewards aren't that bad. Don‘t do it if you dont enjoy doing these challenges-- that's self torture. At the end of the day this is just a game. What's the point of "gamebreaking" rewards when you can play with ur favourite marvel characters and have fun? People are forgetting the point of this game. @Karatemike415, good job at designing these cool challenges
This came across very wholesome to me and I appreciate that and agree. If it's not fun, then move on from it. We should be enjoying ourselves here.
Yes. I agree. As much as I support honest feedback, I think it's also important to thank them all for the work they put into these. I don't think those two things should be mutually exclusive. Someone still took the time to design these.
One thing I think about a lot is how Kabam and now the creators of their challenges say this content isn’t for everyone, it’s designed for a specific subset of people. That’s perfectly fine, make it for the MSDs, the Fintechs, and the KarateMikes. But to say it’s optional and to tell people to just skip it if they don’t want to do it when there might be rewards people want doesn’t seem right.
The 7* shards are meh for the effort put in (except Lagacy’s, those are nice). But putting exclusive 7* behind this feels rough. Personally, I’m ok with skipping and not getting Spidey 2099, Sparky, or Masacre as a 7* but I know there’s a ton of people where those champs are some of their favorites and they feel so demoralized by not being able to get them. I mean, maybe we’re overreacting and you’ll put them in the basic 7* pool next month. Who knows. We wouldn’t know until it happens. There’s also a 7* R2 gem that would be really nice to have but still not worth it.
Why not make the rewards for the top 1% of summoners more braggy? Why not give a 7* selector for completing half the challenges and if you complete them all, you can get an exclusive title, emote, or profile pic. Or all 3? I wasn’t around when Grief Incarnate first came out so maybe more rewards were given out to those who completed it, but the only reward I see is 1g and a profile pic. Couldn’t you incorporate that more and still let summoners have a challenge and get some of the nice rewards like exclusive 7* champs instead of gating them for the top 1%? I don’t know, just thoughts running through my head.
P.S. I may really disagree with Fintech’s and KarateMike’s challenges and would never see myself even attempting it because I personally think it’s not a fun challenge and I don’t want to waste precious resources on ranking champs I’ll never use again, but I think everyone should still be respectful and kinder to them. There’s absolutely no reason for personal attacks and rude comments.
That means everyone who can’t 100% Necro should be demoralised since they can’t get 7-star Maestro.
There’s quite a difference in skill and roster ask between taking only Mojo through EOP and 100% Necro
Exactly, If you have neither the skill nor the roster then dont do it. Simple. It is the same as someone without Aegon nor the skill to use Kate wanting to do Necro.
I have no why people are dooming on the creators like they betrayed us or something 🤷♂️
But they did. They knew what they were doing when they made the challenge and knew it would piss people off. Mike seems like his mistake was mostly in the ranking cost of his champs but Fin seems to have done this maliciously. His comment in the thread and the comments from those who know him seem to prove that he did his challenge that way.
@Karatemike415 seeing you scramble to justify the challenge just further proves the point that it isn't fun, and you know it isn't fun. If you thought you had truly designed a fun quest you would chill out and give people time to come to that conclusion on their own. Instead you're doing what Kabam asked you to do, damage control.
Fun content doesn't need force feeding or explanation, it doesn't require pages and pages of convincing people to enjoy it. Fun content is automatically enjoyed, and people flock to it with excitement.
Even if you think this content is fun, the majority of people who care about the game enough to come to forums do not think it is fun. I'm not even arguing that it is too difficult, it's simply lazy design that added absolutely nothing to the MCOC experience.
I have no why people are dooming on the creators like they betrayed us or something 🤷♂️
But they did. They knew what they were doing when they made the challenge and knew it would piss people off. Mike seems like his mistake was mostly in the ranking cost of his champs but Fin seems to have done this maliciously. His comment in the thread and the comments from those who know him seem to prove that he did his challenge that way.
Pissing you off is a betrayal? I’d hate to see you drive.
This will be the 1st content in the history of mcoc that i will be skipping (except for the sparky stuff to get the KG piece). Last content i didn't do was the Coulson challenge ,i tried but couldn't do it. That was 8 years ago
Are these challenges worse than 4* starlord that you did even before Carina’s challenges were ever a thing?
Much worse ya, are you talking about LOL?
Sorry, but these challenges are not worse than the Labyrinth challenges from vol 1. No fight in the 4* labyrinth challenges was soloable- those were legitimate revive dumps that nobody could out-skill. These on the other hand (even fins) can be done for very cheap with proper knowledge and execution. People complain about this new batch as if its tuned just the same as those labyrinth ones, when they are in fact significantly more player-friendly and skill focused (fin made sure every single fight in his challenges were soloable). I know that being better than the vol 1 labyrinth challenges is a low bar, but these pass that bar easily, despite the complaints that its a mandatory resource drain.
Saying Fintech made sure the fights are soloable is the dumbest argument ever cause the % of the playerbase that grinds the game 24/7 like him is probably less than 5% lol.
I think you’re severely overestimating the amount of time i spend playing this game every day 😂
Everybody assumes that the God tier players play 24/7, which is ridiculous.
Some people are naturally more gifted at playing the game than others, it's as simple as that.
Back in my mid 20's I had been playing guitar for 10+ years, played quite often, had jam space, the whole but.
My friend and I who always jammed met this 16 year old kid who had been playing guitar for probably 2 years, and he blew me out of the water. Why? Because he was just that naturally gifted at playing guitar.
Not because he spent 24/7 playing, he was just damn good.
The same can be said about most things.
Some people are just more naturally gifted at things, they don't need to practice 24/7 to be godly at something.
@Karatemike415 seeing you scramble to justify the challenge just further proves the point that it isn't fun, and you know it isn't fun. If you thought you had truly designed a fun quest you would chill out and give people time to come to that conclusion on their own. Instead you're doing what Kabam asked you to do, damage control.
Fun content doesn't need force feeding or explanation, it doesn't require pages and pages of convincing people to enjoy it. Fun content is automatically enjoyed, and people flock to it with excitement.
Even if you think this content is fun, the majority of people who care about the game enough to come to forums do not think it is fun. I'm not even arguing that it is too difficult, it's simply lazy design that added absolutely nothing to the MCOC experience.
This is hilarious. I’m not scrambling over anything - and I most certainly was not asked to do “damage control.”
And I’m actually very chill currently despite receiving hundreds of comments over the past 48 hours of people calling me a “c*nt” over an optional objective in a mobile video game.
If you don’t find it fun, that’s fine! I’m not your dad and I can’t force you to like or do anything you don’t want to. It’s an optional permanent objective geared toward the players who miss this style of content, and it was never going to be received well by “the majority.”
I had a metric **** ton of fun doing my challenges - probably the most fun I’ve had playing this game so far, tbh.
This may be a shocking concept, but the primary goal of the challenge objective here wasn’t simply “fun.” It was to create a very difficult challenge while still giving the tools to get through it without much item use.
With skilled play & proper strategy, both of my challenges can be done in under 5 revives. Every character on the team has a specific role & counters the fight PERFECTLY.
You may not like the objective - or be interested in this style of content - but regardless of that fact, the mark was met.
I have no why people are dooming on the creators like they betrayed us or something 🤷♂️
But they did. They knew what they were doing when they made the challenge and knew it would piss people off. Mike seems like his mistake was mostly in the ranking cost of his champs but Fin seems to have done this maliciously. His comment in the thread and the comments from those who know him seem to prove that he did his challenge that way.
There’s a huge difference between being malicious and wanting to challenge those who seek an *actual* challenge. As i have said the difficulty level was an intentional decision by me for the purpose of creating an extremely difficult challenge that could still be conquered with skill above all else. I can assure you i did not make it just to annoy or get a reaction out of anyone
This will be the 1st content in the history of mcoc that i will be skipping (except for the sparky stuff to get the KG piece). Last content i didn't do was the Coulson challenge ,i tried but couldn't do it. That was 8 years ago
Are these challenges worse than 4* starlord that you did even before Carina’s challenges were ever a thing?
Much worse ya, are you talking about LOL?
Sorry, but these challenges are not worse than the Labyrinth challenges from vol 1. No fight in the 4* labyrinth challenges was soloable- those were legitimate revive dumps that nobody could out-skill. These on the other hand (even fins) can be done for very cheap with proper knowledge and execution. People complain about this new batch as if its tuned just the same as those labyrinth ones, when they are in fact significantly more player-friendly and skill focused (fin made sure every single fight in his challenges were soloable). I know that being better than the vol 1 labyrinth challenges is a low bar, but these pass that bar easily, despite the complaints that its a mandatory resource drain.
Saying Fintech made sure the fights are soloable is the dumbest argument ever cause the % of the playerbase that grinds the game 24/7 like him is probably less than 5% lol.
I think you’re severely overestimating the amount of time i spend playing this game every day 😂
Everybody assumes that the God tier players play 24/7, which is ridiculous.
Some people are naturally more gifted at playing the game than others, it's as simple as that.
Back in my mid 20's I had been playing guitar for 10+ years, played quite often, had jam space, the whole but.
My friend and I who always jammed met this 16 year old kid who had been playing guitar for probably 2 years, and he blew me out of the water. Why? Because he was just that naturally gifted at playing guitar.
Not because he spent 24/7 playing, he was just damn good.
The same can be said about most things.
Some people are just more naturally gifted at things, they don't need to practice 24/7 to be godly at something.
If someone plays guitar 8 hours a day for two years while you play 2 for ten years they will be better than you, what's so weird about that? Lmao let's stop acting like Fintech doesn't play the game that often yeah? We all know he does, you don't just get this good out of nowhere. You can be a natural at a lot of things but I can guarantee you nobody wins a tournament without practice and some investment.
I have no why people are dooming on the creators like they betrayed us or something 🤷♂️
Maybe cause two of them designed challenges that are extremely frustrating to complete? They obviously don't care about fun.
@ItsClobberinTime Have you actually tried them before coming to this conclusion? Genuinely asking. You said earlier you haven't logged on in 2 weeks.
Are you assuming that he has all of those champs that no one has ranked at R4 or R5 already?
The worst part is I do, and I did the first few fights with r5 ascended Zemo but they're not fun. That's the main reason I'm complaining they're not fun, it's not even about the difficulty itself.
I have no why people are dooming on the creators like they betrayed us or something 🤷♂️
Maybe cause two of them designed challenges that are extremely frustrating to complete? They obviously don't care about fun.
@ItsClobberinTime Have you actually tried them before coming to this conclusion? Genuinely asking. You said earlier you haven't logged on in 2 weeks.
I didn't even get to that Domino which I don't even know how you would kill with Zemo.
20 Gauntlet fights with Zemo alone? Come on... Look at this whole thread, there's a reason most people aren't happy about it.
Zemo can take Domino down in one go just by using Special 1's - the Power Shield boosts his bleed from the special by 400% - so after a few Special 1's, she absolutely melts. There's a strategy for him to take every fight in there.
Zemo was designed to be used in long form content where you have the freedom to bring 3-5 Zemo’s on the team, due to his House of Zemo synergy (which is the name of the title obtained). Each Zemo increases his bleed potency by 50% - hence, why there was a 2 star Zemo in the Avengers challenge. One cycle of SP2>SP1>SP1 leaves the defender taking a permanent 15,000 bleed damage per second.
There aren't many quests where you can bring 5 of one Champion - but Gauntlet is the perfect place to bring 5 Zemo’s on your team. There isn’t a single fight in the quest that he can’t handle. Lots of thought was put into that objective, and I made sure he was able to effectively take every single fight in the quest - so naturally, it's very frustrating & disheartening when I see people saying that myself, or Fin, didn't put any thought into these challenges before they even make an attempt - or that we're "out of touch" with the game, or community.
I understand your, and everyone else's, view here. I understand that it's very difficult, but these challenges were designed specifically to be very challenging and geared towards the players who have been craving this type of challenge to be made again. Because of this, they are optional permanent objectives (with rewards that aren't account changing), and revisit quests that were released 3+ years ago.
I dont disagree with most of this, my main question is did the fact that players would have to rank up MANY UNWANTED champs ever come up as a possible problem, or is that something that you thought would be fun for players, or was it just something overlooked?
Assuming you're referring to the Avengers challenge - I actually did most of the testing there with Rank 3 Champions, and I think Iron Dude at Rank 4.
I keep seeing "who wants to Rank 5 these Champions?!?!?!" being thrown around. Gauntlet was released before Rank 4's even existed.
I was going to leave Widow & Ant-Man at rank 3, but I decided to take them to Rank 4 as a souvenir for the challenge. There's nothing that can't be done with them at Rank 3.
To the players that this challenge was geared towards, taking those Champions to rank 3 would not be much of a burden at all. If you're still in the stage of the game where rank 3 resources for 6 stars are scarce, it might not be time to tackle it yet - and that's 100% okay, and also why it's permanent. The hope is that over time, players will have a 2>3 gem in their overflow, not know where to use it, and have a reason to toss it into Thor.
There's a group of players that miss the need to rank specific Champions to get through challenge content. The truth of the matter is, not everyone wanted Act 6 to be nerfed & story content to get easier as time went on. However, just because a small group of players feel that way, it doesn't mean that's what is best. For the overall health of the game - I agree with the current trajectory of Story content & the way that Necropolis was designed. I don't think anybody should be locked out of any mainline content, and it should be realistically achievable by anybody without too much stress.
That's what I think so many people are missing here - these challenges are there for the players who miss ranking specific Champions for different very difficult challenges. For the insane handsome bald people who enjoyed doing pre-nerf 6.2 itemless, and would grind arena for Champions to rank to finish a random lane in 6.2.4, instead of popping a single Revive that expires in 25 minutes.
I guarantee you, I know enough about the game & the player base to come up with over 50 challenges that are meant for everybody - and if I'm asked to design an objective in that style, you could feel comfortable betting your net worth on it being attainable by the entire community. That's not what this objective was for.
Specific Rank Up Gems for those characters would have been a solid idea, it's not something I thought of at the time. Hindsight is 20/20, looking back at it I should have pushed for that, but it didn't cross my mind based on who the challenge was geared toward. As time goes on, those resources are only going to get more & more common, and i hope when that time comes, you dip your toes into the quests.
I actually like and respect how you are responding to this. You are forgiven 😆 (by me at least) I still won't (be able to) do your challenges and I think they are a bit over the top, but at least now I know your heart is in a good place. Much love and light
I have no why people are dooming on the creators like they betrayed us or something 🤷♂️
Maybe cause two of them designed challenges that are extremely frustrating to complete? They obviously don't care about fun.
@ItsClobberinTime Have you actually tried them before coming to this conclusion? Genuinely asking. You said earlier you haven't logged on in 2 weeks.
Are you assuming that he has all of those champs that no one has ranked at R4 or R5 already?
The worst part is I do, and I did the first few fights with r5 ascended Zemo but they're not fun. That's the main reason I'm complaining they're not fun, it's not even about the difficulty itself.
I guess you need it explained, I thought it was clear enough, or you have a hard time with readingcomprehension, not sure which.
I played just as often, if not more often than he did, he was just NATURALLY better than I was.
Did it make it more clear?
Nobody said they don't play the game a few hours daily sometimes, but you sure as hell don't need to play "24/7" to be great at the game, especially if you are naturally good at it whether it's due to finger dexterity, understanding how all champs work and who's the best for what, etc etc..
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With such a rich QB class this draft, if there's a guy that the staff really falls in love with, I think they have to figure out a way to move up and grab him. I have a feeling it's going to end up being JJ McCarthy.
I'm not arguing difficulty in general, I'm arguing fun. I don't find your challenges or Fintech's fun, I think they are extremely annoying unlike Lagacy's challenges.
I want challenging content, I'm all for it, but I want it to be fun in the same way Necropolis was.
Want to create a challenge for the 0.1% ? (I keep seeing 1% but it's less than that)
Fine. Give them a profile pic or emote, like we got grief incarnate. Nobody complained about this piece of content, yet it was released for the 0.1%. I went for it myself when I had nothing else to do, I knew what I was going for, nothing but a flex profile pic. You just released this challenge in this specific piece of content which had just a profile pic attached and added shards and a part of the selectors. Hence modifying the purpose of this specific content, from optional and just for a PFP to a bit more than just that.
Like someone said, CCP don't wait for in-game challenges to create their own. If you need a little extra, I think PFP, emotes or titles is where it's at.
Want to give unique set of rewards such as a unique 7 star champ selector ? Fine. But don't lock it behind the 0.1%. While they are not game breaking champs, they are still quite good. And outside of meta relevance, they may be someone favorite marvel character.
This challenges landed somewhere in the middle, in a grey zone, not good enough rewards to motivate the largest and justify the pain, too good to be seen as optional (while there is nothing in this game that can be considered optional, I mean the game in itself is so I find it silly to use that argument, I consider PFP, titles and emotes to be optional).
So a piece of advice for future challenges, fix the rewards or fix the target. Or a bit of both.
Stuff like Necropolis will have a far longer lifespan similar to how Abyss became the go to for people not yet Thronebreaker for a long while (by then Abyss had already been 10 months old) because the design offers large jumps in progression that are unique to the given piece of content.
This is not the case with the Carinas despite the fact a large portion of them would generally present equal or greater difficulty than milestone content like Necropolis for the average player. I strongly believe this was lost in translation for both KarateMike's and Fintech's challenges. Fintech especially came off as rather inconsiderate especially with how he stated that the content was soloable with the right strategy. Considering that Fintech had won the most prestigious event in MCOC last year, his statement loses all meaning when the fact is that virtually almost any player that can do these challenges will never have the same skill as Fintech and will end up burning revives that oddly were made harder to obtain.
If I remember correctly, it was said that revive farming was removed so that content wouldn't be trivialised by ham-fisted revive usage. It's strange then that the current endgame content demands ham-fisted revive usage for most of the players doing the challenge.
So which is it then? Is revive-farming trivialising content, or is the content already trivialised? It can't be both.
I say this with complete respect for the company, but you guys really need to think the recent direction of endgame content through again. Necropolis was great, the 7 for 7 was fun, hell the Lagacy challenges allow people to put a challenging but fun spin on more recent content. However WoW and most of these challenges aren't great and has seemed to drain the fun out of playing endgame content.
So I'll be very blunt with this.
If players aren't willing to do some of these challenges now. I highly doubt that they will ever do them.
But doesn't KararateMike's challenge required is to do that, too?
The original Avengers; or at least those who haven't been reworked..
Black Widow (one ability - Subtlety)
Thor (one ability - Armour Break)
Iron Man
Hawkeye I think if the rewards have landed in a grey zone, that sounds ideal.
This is insanely difficult content; and I've no plans to try Mike's or Fintech's. I've started casually ranking up Sparky, though...
One perspective is that: what you want gated behind difficult challenges needs to be not worth the effort. If it's sufficiently rewarding to do, then the pressure to do it (and keep up/get ahead) is real.
I don't want that kind of pressure. For a challenge like this, I want the rewards to be something I can safely ignore.
If the rewards aren't worth it, but do have some kind of value to getting them (a solid but not God-tier attacking champion, for example) then that sounds about right.
Satisfying to finish, a nightmare to get done. Someone cooked here and fried my brain in the process. Thank you Fintech for reigniting my love in this beautiful creature.
I am not tip-top 0.01%, but consider myself endgame player. My roster always feel behind just because I highly ever buy any offers or units and don't grind arena too much - it is fine though, it is my choice how much I spend/engage. My point is not about whether I should go for the avenger challenge or not - but I think there are other valiant players out there in my shoe. It would be nice if players could come to gold/iso a bit easier in the future.
It’s going down hill fast.
For example, in the screenshot below, I initially thought that the Zemo fight against Domino would be near impossible. But you took the time to explain it on the forums, and also pointed out that you didn't (and Fintech) just slap together random stuff.
So thank you again for your interaction on the forums, even when a good chunk is slamming it.
Im not annoyed by any of it. Geez, are we supposed to be able to do everything?
As I said Im going to do Miike ones after I finish the second one of Lags, Fintechs challenge is outrageous for me, but the diff I think it is supposed to be by the info Kabam stated, was that this is not like Necro since there is no "new" rewards, or no sustantial ones at least if you complete this objectives, unlike Necro that is really gamechanging.
I saw some Kabam's posts about the feedback about this objectives, maybe this isnt what they wanted to be like, and if so, then yeah, thats an L for them, if they were expecting this reaction from the community and it is, indeed, their intention to make this nearly impossible for 99% of us to do, then its just another content that is not going to be taking my time.
Depending on what Kabam wanted this to be, we should be either neutral, or angry, but as I say, it completely depends on what they wanted this content to be and for who.
Fun content doesn't need force feeding or explanation, it doesn't require pages and pages of convincing people to enjoy it. Fun content is automatically enjoyed, and people flock to it with excitement.
Even if you think this content is fun, the majority of people who care about the game enough to come to forums do not think it is fun. I'm not even arguing that it is too difficult, it's simply lazy design that added absolutely nothing to the MCOC experience.
Some people are naturally more gifted at playing the game than others, it's as simple as that.
Back in my mid 20's I had been playing guitar for 10+ years, played quite often, had jam space, the whole but.
My friend and I who always jammed met this 16 year old kid who had been playing guitar for probably 2 years, and he blew me out of the water. Why? Because he was just that naturally gifted at playing guitar.
Not because he spent 24/7 playing, he was just damn good.
The same can be said about most things.
Some people are just more naturally gifted at things, they don't need to practice 24/7 to be godly at something.
I’m not scrambling over anything - and I most certainly was not asked to do “damage control.”
And I’m actually very chill currently despite receiving hundreds of comments over the past 48 hours of people calling me a “c*nt” over an optional objective in a mobile video game.
If you don’t find it fun, that’s fine!
I’m not your dad and I can’t force you to like or do anything you don’t want to.
It’s an optional permanent objective geared toward the players who miss this style of content, and it was never going to be received well by “the majority.”
I had a metric **** ton of fun doing my challenges - probably the most fun I’ve had playing this game so far, tbh.
This may be a shocking concept, but the primary goal of the challenge objective here wasn’t simply “fun.”
It was to create a very difficult challenge while still giving the tools to get through it without much item use.
With skilled play & proper strategy, both of my challenges can be done in under 5 revives.
Every character on the team has a specific role & counters the fight PERFECTLY.
You may not like the objective - or be interested in this style of content - but regardless of that fact, the mark was met.
Calling it “lazy design” is simply a lazy take.
I actually like and respect how you are responding to this. You are forgiven 😆 (by me at least) I still won't (be able to) do your challenges and I think they are a bit over the top, but at least now I know your heart is in a good place. Much love and light
I played just as often, if not more often than he did, he was just NATURALLY better than I was.
Did it make it more clear?
Nobody said they don't play the game a few hours daily sometimes, but you sure as hell don't need to play "24/7" to be great at the game, especially if you are naturally good at it whether it's due to finger dexterity, understanding how all champs work and who's the best for what, etc etc..