It's sad to see Kabam employees sticking fingers into their ears with these incredibly defensive responses. It's evident from each of Miike, Crashed, and Jax's comments that they aren't interested in feedback from players about these challenges. I was going to come and offer some thoughts on why, as one of those players (arguably) that these challenges were designed for, these challenges miss the mark. But I'm not going to waste time giving constructive criticism to a willfully deaf audience. So good luck I guess, hope you guys are happy with how this all turns out.
This simply isn't true. If I didn't care about player feedback I wouldn't be reading through 200+ post threads at 10pm. I'm not being defensive, I'm simply stating how we see these challenges and their place in the game.
We take feedback seriously and actually earlier today changed the design for an upcoming piece of content based on this feedback. However we aren't just going to roll over and acquiesce to everything that players tell us they want, because quite frankly this game wouldn't still exist if we did that. Our job is to find the right balance for the long-term health of the game, and I promise you that is what we all are trying to do.
The trouble is, the community are starting to see through certain content and things now for what it really is, and put 2&2 together.
NERF revive farming, then begin to release impossible content (not impossible if you spend just a long drawn out. Slog, which then becomes revive spam, and not fun)
Most of The CCP are out of touch, waaaaaay out of touch with 90% of the community. You're talking members of top alliances who gain resources and mats way faster than anyone else and always have their units in the thousands, and they're the ones speaking for us..?? Not all of us have sponsors for huge openings etc they have massive advantages we don't have..
New champs being designed to give huge advantages in bgs and now buyable in bundles of you're valiant?? Talk about rich get richer.. community is getting sick and tired of the p2w gap tbh, dead sick and tired of it, and this has topped it
Mike and Fin also knew these were coming and were able to make the proper rank-up decisions. Their defense would have been much better received if they spent the first 15 min of their streams ranking all those trash camps from R1 to R4 or R5.
That is true...anyway its permanent so personally after trying lagacy's two, I might have a go at the tigra challenge one day simply because she is worth ranking up to max, and I had a 6r4 mojo way before this ever came up (so he stays as is), but I see no reason other than this to rank up OG Thor & OG Black Widow. Iron Man was already ranked up for RAIDS and Hawkeye can stay at 7r1. Ant Man has uses especially in AW on path 9 so I may rank him up but for now he also stays at r3 as he's available as a 7*.
What I won't do is waste my stash on this when there are better and more relevant rewards from other end-game content like WoW and act 8.4 around the corner.
Once I can get the KG piece this will go on the back burner like half of the previous 4* Carina Chellenges I still haven't done.
The stark Spidey one was fun, albeit super annoying at times when you need to block a special to lose a bit of power and he is like, nah I'll evade that.
The stark Spidey one was fun, albeit super annoying at times when you need to block a special to lose a bit of power and he is like, nah I'll evade that.
I love Stark Spidey as a champ but this is still the main reason I don't use him as often as I'd like to. Being unable to decide when his evade triggers is highly annoying as an attacker (but perfect as a defender).
He needs a simple kit buff similar to OG spidey where you can choose when not to evade if you are blocking.
Im also really tired of hearing “Its optional” as a response. Using hercules to cheese content is optional yet I dont see a free 7 star herc waiting in my inbox. The reason is because something being “optional” has nothing to do with whether or not you should balance it. All content is optional- why bother balancing anything? Its absurd to state put loud and even worse from the comm team. At this point biting the bullet and saying we want an increased revenue flow would be the MOST defensible position you could take.
To crashed: you mentioned being happy with a lot of content being available- what content? BGs is in such a poor state reward wise the 5 time top player has complained about the rewards for at least 4 seasons+ and it STILL hasn't seen an update. Incursions is a bug riddled mess with the latest in black screen technology. AW, WOW, RAIDS and the latest and greatest Carinas challenges are all subject to AI woes that haven’t been addressed, ALL got overtuned somehow, and (if they happened to be in a good state reward wise) it was because of a literal bug which gave us excess glory. The side quests have practically been dead for months if not a year with the occasional heartbeat. Necro was amazing- but frankly those glasses are probably rose tinted because we had a REVIVE SOURCE that wasnt garbage or took months round out a stash. You mentioned you didnt use units to explore it… please tell me you didnt revive farm. Because the implication isnt that necro wasnt difficult enough, just that there was an option to not spend your way through it which is the quiet part you all keep teasing but bending into knots to not say out loud.
The comfort you offered to us “about having changed something” behind the scenes is just as easily read: “we have something so overtuned in the works we had to bite back because we almost made another oops”. The fatigue this cycle illicits is copious
The stark Spidey one was fun, albeit super annoying at times when you need to block a special to lose a bit of power and he is like, nah I'll evade that.
I love Stark Spidey as a champ but this is still the main reason I don't use him as often as I'd like to. Being unable to decide when his evade triggers is highly annoying as an attacker (but perfect as a defender).
He needs a simple kit buff similar to OG spidey where you can choose when not to evade if you are blocking.
That should just be a part of every evaders core kit, specifically Spidermen, (will not attempt to evade while blocking, unless attack is unblockable)
You are welcome to discuss the challenges and have your thoughts on them, but I want to be very clear, attacking any one of our creators directly will not be tolerated. Nobody "betrayed the community" by doing exactly what was asked, to create extremely hard content.
We will not tolerate any form of personal attacks, and we will take action on your game account if we think that it is necessary.
So according to Kabam logic, is "extremely hard content" just a revive spam? Because I don't see how doing Gauntlet with just Zemo is skillful because of some defenders like Korg and Ham in there who will be the worst.
How would you define difficult content? If it's difficult it implies a high likelihood of failure. How do you continue after failure?
We intentionally make this super difficult content optional. Yes, we encourage you to do it in different ways, but if you wanted to completely ignore it you can. (I have a long list of Carina's Challenges that will remain untouched for a long long time)
Not sure if you are genuinely looking for feedback on what challenging content is but for me I think challenging content is best demonstrated in some of the recent boss fights we’ve had particularly in ACT 7 & 8 that require you to follow objectives in the fight with the right amount of skill and knowledge added in too. Raids despite the early flaws I also found challenging but fun. I’m happy to buy revives and push forward when it’s difficult and fun content but these challenges at least for me will just sit on the shelf until I’ve got 9* champs who can steamroll it in the future which is a shame as someone has had to code and work on putting it into the game.
The stark Spidey one was fun, albeit super annoying at times when you need to block a special to lose a bit of power and he is like, nah I'll evade that.
I love Stark Spidey as a champ but this is still the main reason I don't use him as often as I'd like to. Being unable to decide when his evade triggers is highly annoying as an attacker (but perfect as a defender).
He needs a simple kit buff similar to OG spidey where you can choose when not to evade if you are blocking.
That should just be a part of every evaders core kit, specifically Spidermen, (will not attempt to evade while blocking, unless attack is unblockable)
Totally agree - not sure why it was coded like how it is, unless the game code at the time couldn't separate defensive attributes from attack so of course they skewed it towards defence!
Carina's Challenges intention is to give 1% top players something to do that requires all the skill and resources they dont have to use on other content.
The fact that we got some that would include "everybody" doesnt make it is the main intention of them.
This content is not supposed to be achievable by most of us, this is not meant to be hard skill wise, but not doable without spending resources.
Why you guys acting suddenly like this MUST be like you want it to be?
The same way nobody gets mad because Celestial in BGs is not achievable by everybody, we shouldnt get mad because is isnt either, because thats the intention behind this content.
If something is released to a demographic of Players, they're going to share their feedback on it. It's dismissive to say "It's not for you so don't complain.". It IS for them. It is content that's released into the game, that's available for them to play. If it's just a challenge among the Gods, then they can challenge themselves without releasing it as content. No one disputes the fact that it's not for everyone. Personally I don't have a horse in the race because I'm quite happy doing it whenever I'm ready. What I would like to point out that the argument that it's not for everyone might apply now and then, when you're talking about lower Players trying to punch above their weight. I still think it can be used dismissively by other Players at times, but it's valid now and then. I haven't seen that in this case. The Players who are complaining about it aren't new. They're at the latter stages of the game. They're literally the top percentile you're referring to. If they're not happy with it, they will communicate that, and it doesn't automatically mean they're spoiled or looking for an easy street. I know this because the Players who are complaining have been here for years, sharing their progress. Be careful using that statement. It doesn't always apply, and it can come off as ignorant. Just a suggestion.
All this negativity is really disheartening for a game that's been part of my life and many summoner's lives for almost a decade. Things have certainly gone sideways in the past but this seems different. I keep reading statements, like this is only for the top 1%, this content is optional, you're time is not a valuable commodity. It makes me question whether my patronage is really desired.
I realize these next statements are heavy handed, but I believe they should be considered:
1. If you are only going to focus on the top 1% for the immediate future, I wouldn't be surprised if that 1% suddenly becomes 10-20% of your player base as summoners check out. 2. Here's a suggestion that will be something 100% of your player base can enjoy and benefit from. Get AI under control and get bugs fixed faster(And yes I understand easier said than done).
Lagacy's challenge actually looks fun but Karatemike's and Fintech's? Did you guys forget the huge mess the first Carina's Challenges were? Cause I don't remember hearing anyone go "I can't wait to go kill the Collector with a 3* Cyclops". Challenges are fine but can't you at least make them fun? It's like y'all released Necropolis and then suddenly decided to go back to making content annoying as hell, do better Kabam.
I would have loved the same difficulty with having to rank up 8 (5stars) to max, instead of having to rank up 8 (6 or 7 stars) and use sooooo many end game resources on irrelevant champs that you will never use again. When you are a valiant player who is trying to keep up with the other valiant/paragon players (especially in Battlegrounds), we have to choose our rank ups very carefully. Ranking up black widow/antman/thor/hawkeye/jabari panther/mojo really hurts our accounts. Tigra/ironman/zemo are the only champs that are easier to spend the rank up resources on. This is why Lagacys challenge was GENIUS, even if it was exactly the same difficulty as Fintechs and Karate Mikes, players would NOT mind it as much because maxing out 8 5stars is reasonable for some side/OPTIONAL challenges, and we wouldn't feel like we are taking away from our end game/battlegrounds rosters (top 30 champs) so much (except for gold and ISO of course).
So rank up your 5* versions instead of the 6/7* versions and use them.
Nobody said you can't use 5* champs.
If you dont know why people would not want to use 5stars for EOP and Gauntlet, then IDK what else to tell you.
Dude... to quote EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID:
I would have loved the same difficulty with having to rank up 8 (5stars) to max, instead of having to rank up 8 (6 or 7 stars) and use sooooo many end game resources on irrelevant champs that you will never use again.
Then go on to tell me if I apparently don't know why nobody would want to use 5 stars, you don't know what to tell me? Haha
If you can't see your own completely contradictory statement there, then I don't know what to tell you, my dude.
Carina's Challenges intention is to give 1% top players something to do that requires all the skill and resources they dont have to use on other content.
The fact that we got some that would include "everybody" doesnt make it is the main intention of them.
This content is not supposed to be achievable by most of us, this is not meant to be hard skill wise, but not doable without spending resources.
Why you guys acting suddenly like this MUST be like you want it to be?
The same way nobody gets mad because Celestial in BGs is not achievable by everybody, we shouldnt get mad because is isnt either, because thats the intention behind this content.
If something is released to a demographic of Players, they're going to share their feedback on it. It's dismissive to say "It's not for you so don't complain.". It IS for them. It is content that's released into the game, that's available for them to play. If it's just a challenge among the Gods, then they can challenge themselves without releasing it as content. No one disputes the fact that it's not for everyone. Personally I don't have a horse in the race because I'm quite happy doing it whenever I'm ready. What I would like to point out that the argument that it's not for everyone might apply now and then, when you're talking about lower Players trying to punch above their weight. I still think it can be used dismissively by other Players at times, but it's valid now and then. I haven't seen that in this case. The Players who are complaining about it aren't new. They're at the latter stages of the game. They're literally the top percentile you're referring to. If they're not happy with it, they will communicate that, and it doesn't automatically mean they're spoiled or looking for an easy street. I know this because the Players who are complaining have been here for years, sharing their progress. Be careful using that statement. It doesn't always apply, and it can come off as ignorant. Just a suggestion.
If the player base that this content is supposed to hit is the one complaining right now, why are they complaining exactly?
I mean, If this people complaining have nothing else, anywhere to spend their resources on, as I said, as Its supposed to be for the people targeted by this challenge, why are they complaining? The first round of Carina's Challenge were not funny at all, those werent supposed to be beaten just with skills because the star level and the champion requirements were meant to also require revives, a ton of them or not, depending on how skilled you are, and people understood that yeah, maybe this content wasnt meant to be done the same way than the other content, and most of the people, even at the end-game spectrum, just ignored that content.
Why is this any different from Carina's Challenges 1? Why suddenly Carina's Challenge must be comfortable for the people? Why it must require less revives? Why it must be more inclusive within the communitys rosters?
It never was meant to be comfortable, never was meant to be enjoyable, never was meant to be doable by more than the Top of the top players, the ones that can reach Celestial every season as an example.
I dont really understand this sudden enragement against this content
Carina's Challenges intention is to give 1% top players something to do that requires all the skill and resources they dont have to use on other content.
The fact that we got some that would include "everybody" doesnt make it is the main intention of them.
This content is not supposed to be achievable by most of us, this is not meant to be hard skill wise, but not doable without spending resources.
Why you guys acting suddenly like this MUST be like you want it to be?
The same way nobody gets mad because Celestial in BGs is not achievable by everybody, we shouldnt get mad because is isnt either, because thats the intention behind this content.
If something is released to a demographic of Players, they're going to share their feedback on it. It's dismissive to say "It's not for you so don't complain.". It IS for them. It is content that's released into the game, that's available for them to play. If it's just a challenge among the Gods, then they can challenge themselves without releasing it as content. No one disputes the fact that it's not for everyone. Personally I don't have a horse in the race because I'm quite happy doing it whenever I'm ready. What I would like to point out that the argument that it's not for everyone might apply now and then, when you're talking about lower Players trying to punch above their weight. I still think it can be used dismissively by other Players at times, but it's valid now and then. I haven't seen that in this case. The Players who are complaining about it aren't new. They're at the latter stages of the game. They're literally the top percentile you're referring to. If they're not happy with it, they will communicate that, and it doesn't automatically mean they're spoiled or looking for an easy street. I know this because the Players who are complaining have been here for years, sharing their progress. Be careful using that statement. It doesn't always apply, and it can come off as ignorant. Just a suggestion.
If the player base that this content is supposed to hit is the one complaining right now, why are they complaining exactly?
I mean, If this people complaining have nothing else, anywhere to spend their resources on, as I said, as Its supposed to be for the people targeted by this challenge, why are they complaining? The first round of Carina's Challenge were not funny at all, those werent supposed to be beaten just with skills because the star level and the champion requirements were meant to also require revives, a ton of them or not, depending on how skilled you are, and people understood that yeah, maybe this content wasnt meant to be done the same way than the other content, and most of the people, even at the end-game spectrum, just ignored that content.
Why is this any different from Carina's Challenges 1? Why suddenly Carina's Challenge must be comfortable for the people? Why it must require less revives? Why it must be more inclusive within the communitys rosters?
It never was meant to be comfortable, never was meant to be enjoyable, never was meant to be doable by more than the Top of the top players, the ones that can reach Celestial every season as an example.
I dont really understand this sudden enragement against this content
I'm pretty sure most people are complaining because it's not fun, which you've already acknowledged. What is the point in releasing content that makes you want to delete the game on the spot instead of trying again? These fights are not fun, they're stressful. With Necropolis they proved they can make challenging content that's also fun, why are they going back to doing stuff like this which 90% of the playerbase doesn't enjoy?
Carina's Challenges intention is to give 1% top players something to do that requires all the skill and resources they dont have to use on other content.
The fact that we got some that would include "everybody" doesnt make it is the main intention of them.
This content is not supposed to be achievable by most of us, this is not meant to be hard skill wise, but not doable without spending resources.
Why you guys acting suddenly like this MUST be like you want it to be?
The same way nobody gets mad because Celestial in BGs is not achievable by everybody, we shouldnt get mad because is isnt either, because thats the intention behind this content.
If something is released to a demographic of Players, they're going to share their feedback on it. It's dismissive to say "It's not for you so don't complain.". It IS for them. It is content that's released into the game, that's available for them to play. If it's just a challenge among the Gods, then they can challenge themselves without releasing it as content. No one disputes the fact that it's not for everyone. Personally I don't have a horse in the race because I'm quite happy doing it whenever I'm ready. What I would like to point out that the argument that it's not for everyone might apply now and then, when you're talking about lower Players trying to punch above their weight. I still think it can be used dismissively by other Players at times, but it's valid now and then. I haven't seen that in this case. The Players who are complaining about it aren't new. They're at the latter stages of the game. They're literally the top percentile you're referring to. If they're not happy with it, they will communicate that, and it doesn't automatically mean they're spoiled or looking for an easy street. I know this because the Players who are complaining have been here for years, sharing their progress. Be careful using that statement. It doesn't always apply, and it can come off as ignorant. Just a suggestion.
If the player base that this content is supposed to hit is the one complaining right now, why are they complaining exactly?
I mean, If this people complaining have nothing else, anywhere to spend their resources on, as I said, as Its supposed to be for the people targeted by this challenge, why are they complaining? The first round of Carina's Challenge were not funny at all, those werent supposed to be beaten just with skills because the star level and the champion requirements were meant to also require revives, a ton of them or not, depending on how skilled you are, and people understood that yeah, maybe this content wasnt meant to be done the same way than the other content, and most of the people, even at the end-game spectrum, just ignored that content.
Why is this any different from Carina's Challenges 1? Why suddenly Carina's Challenge must be comfortable for the people? Why it must require less revives? Why it must be more inclusive within the communitys rosters?
It never was meant to be comfortable, never was meant to be enjoyable, never was meant to be doable by more than the Top of the top players, the ones that can reach Celestial every season as an example.
I dont really understand this sudden enragement against this content
I can't speak for them, but I will say from a glance, it feels like the progress made to improve on challenging content that is also fun, seems to be reverting. It's becoming much more restrictive and arduous. It's less enjoyable and engaging, and more pigeon-holed. These seem to be issues that have been brought up in the past and with the Fight in WoW, coupled with the expectation of the challenges, I think people are feeling like things are backtracking. I'm sure they don't want content that's too easy themselves. I've seen many of them remind Players of the same things you're pointing out over the years. I think, without assuming their thoughts and feelings, that they want to be challenged and engaged. If it's going to be overly-painful, then the Rewards should reflect that. That's my take. Someone correct me if I'm off.
Carina's Challenges intention is to give 1% top players something to do that requires all the skill and resources they dont have to use on other content.
The fact that we got some that would include "everybody" doesnt make it is the main intention of them.
This content is not supposed to be achievable by most of us, this is not meant to be hard skill wise, but not doable without spending resources.
Why you guys acting suddenly like this MUST be like you want it to be?
The same way nobody gets mad because Celestial in BGs is not achievable by everybody, we shouldnt get mad because is isnt either, because thats the intention behind this content.
If something is released to a demographic of Players, they're going to share their feedback on it. It's dismissive to say "It's not for you so don't complain.". It IS for them. It is content that's released into the game, that's available for them to play. If it's just a challenge among the Gods, then they can challenge themselves without releasing it as content. No one disputes the fact that it's not for everyone. Personally I don't have a horse in the race because I'm quite happy doing it whenever I'm ready. What I would like to point out that the argument that it's not for everyone might apply now and then, when you're talking about lower Players trying to punch above their weight. I still think it can be used dismissively by other Players at times, but it's valid now and then. I haven't seen that in this case. The Players who are complaining about it aren't new. They're at the latter stages of the game. They're literally the top percentile you're referring to. If they're not happy with it, they will communicate that, and it doesn't automatically mean they're spoiled or looking for an easy street. I know this because the Players who are complaining have been here for years, sharing their progress. Be careful using that statement. It doesn't always apply, and it can come off as ignorant. Just a suggestion.
If the player base that this content is supposed to hit is the one complaining right now, why are they complaining exactly?
I mean, If this people complaining have nothing else, anywhere to spend their resources on, as I said, as Its supposed to be for the people targeted by this challenge, why are they complaining? The first round of Carina's Challenge were not funny at all, those werent supposed to be beaten just with skills because the star level and the champion requirements were meant to also require revives, a ton of them or not, depending on how skilled you are, and people understood that yeah, maybe this content wasnt meant to be done the same way than the other content, and most of the people, even at the end-game spectrum, just ignored that content.
Why is this any different from Carina's Challenges 1? Why suddenly Carina's Challenge must be comfortable for the people? Why it must require less revives? Why it must be more inclusive within the communitys rosters?
It never was meant to be comfortable, never was meant to be enjoyable, never was meant to be doable by more than the Top of the top players, the ones that can reach Celestial every season as an example.
I dont really understand this sudden enragement against this content
I can't speak for them, but I will say from a glance, it feels like the progress made to improve on challenging content that is also fun, seems to be reverting. It's becoming much more restrictive and arduous. It's less enjoyable and engaging, and more pigeon-holed. These seem to be issues that have been brought up in the past and with the Fight in WoW, coupled with the expectation of the challenges, I think people are feeling like things are backtracking. I'm sure they don't want content that's too easy themselves. I've seen many of them remind Players of the same things you're pointing out over the years. I think, without assuming their thoughts and feelings, that they want to be challenged and engaged. If it's going to be overly-painful, then the Rewards should reflect that. That's my take. Someone correct me if I'm off.
This is exactly how I feel, haven't touched the game in almost two weeks and probably won't until they start listening to the community. Almost nobody likes content that's challenging and stressful instead of fun.
Lots of stuff that Kabam has released that I disagree with. WOW is damn awful.
This content really isn’t one of the things I have an issue with and sympathise with Kabam to a degree on this one. The challenges are for more difficult for me to complete (except the Starky one) without using more resources than I’d be comfortable with. It’s too hard, I’m not skilled enough. But there’s also nothing in the rewards that makes me feel I’m missing out by choosing to not take part.
I’m not as skilled as MSD so I probably shouldn’t be able to complete everything he can complete, at least not without some pain to my account. I could unit man through all of this, but it’s not worth. The rewards don’t justify it for me, but the challenge itself probably does justify it for MSD and the like.
I do agree with the points that these challenges shouldn’t requires use of end game rank up materials. If there’s a range of champions that can be used that’s one thing, but if the challenge is using 1 specific champion, that’s less than ideal.
8.4 will be released soon enough and that will be tailored for the masses. I think this content is tuned specifically for the absolute best of the best to give them something to do. I doubt the likes of MSD, Karate Mike, Lagacy, KT1 are going to be using a lot of resources on 8.4 or even Winter Of Woe. I don’t care if they have some stupidly hard content that at the end offers some trinkets that don’t impact on me if I can’t get them. Ok the 7* champs would be nice but it’s not a game changer to miss out.
Now Winter Of Woe is a different story for a different thread.
Carina's Challenges intention is to give 1% top players something to do that requires all the skill and resources they dont have to use on other content.
The fact that we got some that would include "everybody" doesnt make it is the main intention of them.
This content is not supposed to be achievable by most of us, this is not meant to be hard skill wise, but not doable without spending resources.
Why you guys acting suddenly like this MUST be like you want it to be?
The same way nobody gets mad because Celestial in BGs is not achievable by everybody, we shouldnt get mad because is isnt either, because thats the intention behind this content.
If something is released to a demographic of Players, they're going to share their feedback on it. It's dismissive to say "It's not for you so don't complain.". It IS for them. It is content that's released into the game, that's available for them to play. If it's just a challenge among the Gods, then they can challenge themselves without releasing it as content. No one disputes the fact that it's not for everyone. Personally I don't have a horse in the race because I'm quite happy doing it whenever I'm ready. What I would like to point out that the argument that it's not for everyone might apply now and then, when you're talking about lower Players trying to punch above their weight. I still think it can be used dismissively by other Players at times, but it's valid now and then. I haven't seen that in this case. The Players who are complaining about it aren't new. They're at the latter stages of the game. They're literally the top percentile you're referring to. If they're not happy with it, they will communicate that, and it doesn't automatically mean they're spoiled or looking for an easy street. I know this because the Players who are complaining have been here for years, sharing their progress. Be careful using that statement. It doesn't always apply, and it can come off as ignorant. Just a suggestion.
If the player base that this content is supposed to hit is the one complaining right now, why are they complaining exactly?
I mean, If this people complaining have nothing else, anywhere to spend their resources on, as I said, as Its supposed to be for the people targeted by this challenge, why are they complaining? The first round of Carina's Challenge were not funny at all, those werent supposed to be beaten just with skills because the star level and the champion requirements were meant to also require revives, a ton of them or not, depending on how skilled you are, and people understood that yeah, maybe this content wasnt meant to be done the same way than the other content, and most of the people, even at the end-game spectrum, just ignored that content.
Why is this any different from Carina's Challenges 1? Why suddenly Carina's Challenge must be comfortable for the people? Why it must require less revives? Why it must be more inclusive within the communitys rosters?
It never was meant to be comfortable, never was meant to be enjoyable, never was meant to be doable by more than the Top of the top players, the ones that can reach Celestial every season as an example.
I dont really understand this sudden enragement against this content
I'm pretty sure most people are complaining because it's not fun, which you've already acknowledged. What is the point in releasing content that makes you want to delete the game on the spot instead of trying again? These fights are not fun, they're stressful. With Necropolis they proved they can make challenging content that's also fun, why are they going back to doing stuff like this which 90% of the playerbase doesn't enjoy?
The main reason when Carina's Challenge were released was to give people that had nothing to do some real challenges, the same way we had people doing X content with weird champs and uploading them on YouTube, this was for those bored xtremely end game players to have something to do meanwhile.
Im not a fan of those, I dont enjoy that content, and it is not even Content, since its just an additional objective if you wanna do it in already existing content, why would I be this angry about it?
I mean why get angry about Carina's Challenge that is supposed to be the way it is, and it is just an completely optional objective, non game changing, meant to challenge yourself not only skill-wise but your patience aswell.
Obviously is not for 99% of us, but this is an overexageration of the situation
Just some feedback from the more end game players in my alliance and myself. The thoughts are a few things lately are just not fun anymore.
Needs to be a good balance between challenging and enjoyable,which yes it's difficult to please everyone but I just feel it's so off right now.I'm not expecting to be doing content itemless if the rewards are worth it. But I want to be able to feel it's actually achievable for a standard player, which is what the majority of the community is.
A few, myself included, in my alliance are at a point where we have explored what's released of act8 and waiting for 8.4. So having some additional content in the mean time like some extra challenges would be welcome, like 7for7 etc. Because what I'm finding is that players are getting tired of the repetitive content of AQ, AW, EQ etc. So they were quite excited about something new but now are disheartened. So it's leaving people feeling like it's just grind of the same old so they are getting bored and dropping the game.
It's sad to see Kabam employees sticking fingers into their ears with these incredibly defensive responses. It's evident from each of Miike, Crashed, and Jax's comments that they aren't interested in feedback from players about these challenges. I was going to come and offer some thoughts on why, as one of those players (arguably) that these challenges were designed for, these challenges miss the mark. But I'm not going to waste time giving constructive criticism to a willfully deaf audience. So good luck I guess, hope you guys are happy with how this all turns out.
This simply isn't true. If I didn't care about player feedback I wouldn't be reading through 200+ post threads at 10pm. I'm not being defensive, I'm simply stating how we see these challenges and their place in the game.
We take feedback seriously and actually earlier today changed the design for an upcoming piece of content based on this feedback. However we aren't just going to acquiesce to everything that players tell us they want, because quite frankly this game wouldn't still exist if we did that. Our job is to find the right balance for the long-term health of the game, and I promise you that is what we all are trying to do.
Many apologies in advance for any missing spelling or incorrect gamma, English is my 2nd language and being dyslexic doesn’t help the matter either.
I would like to break this down into sections in hoping it would convey my point better, as I can imagine it will pretty messy lol.
Credit & Appreciation: - Firstly, I would like to thank you for taking the time to respond to some of the comments on this matter (and also other issues in the past), always felt your responds have a lot more depth and experience.
I would also like to point out some of the positive regarding this CCP Carina content.
1) The Dealthless King Groot is relative accessible – That is much appreciated 2) Rewards included 2 x 7* Selector, this is wonderful and could be use as a solution to the current issue, which I would explain later. 3) Lagacy Challenges (for most players) seem to met the right balance, between challenges, fun, resource invest and rewards.
Creating content for the 1% - Why? So some of the respond I have read from both side, is this idea the content is design for the 1%, that Kabam need to create content so challenging that it would cater for the 1%. I think this itself might be where lie the problem.
Firstly, I agreed the game should have content for all of it players, from the one just download the game to those that essentially make a living from playing it.
However, from my perspective, MCOC already have game mode that naturally filter for the 1% including, AW Tier 1, Raids, BG Celestial, and most recently Kabam did it with Necropolis speed run, Annual BG tournament and even as you said Brian Grant challenges with the Duck.
It is very possible and easy for Kabam to create content challenges for the 1% without making the 99% of the players feel that they are a bunch of unskilled and worthless …“insert your own noun here” lol.
The best thing with these type of contents/events, is it actually brings the community together, no one complaint that they didn’t get a Mythic badge, a unique Profile pic or a personalised title, they know it is not for them, and they enjoy rallying and rooted for these players.
On top of that actually the 1% are great at creating their own amazing challenges, like MSD doing WoW Abs Man with 3* She Hulk, no one asked him to, but he did and it was great, or Slayer of God creating a speed run on this same content.
So there are already plenty of content/event for the 1% and there are more (please see Solution section below)
The 1% & CCP creating Content for the massive – It is really a good idea? This lead me to me second point.
While on paper is sound like a great idea to get someone that the community look upto/fond of/idolise to create content for the rest of the community, but is it really a good idea?
Would the Olympic more entertaining if the world best sport athletes, make us do their challenges?
Would the 100 meter is more exciting if Usain Bolt, make us try and keep up with him for 100 meter before watching him race?
Would football be better, if Ronaldo make us have to run 10 laps of the pitch before watching the game?
Why would the idea of getting the best players in MCOC to create challenges for rest of the community players.
I seem a few comments on how the 1% top players are disconnected with the community, and overall (generalising), yes that is the case, and it should of no surprise to anyone.
Husan Bolts would not understand how you (an average person) run at your speed, it is far too slow for him.
Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk would have no ideal how common people survive on a few pound/dollars/(insert your own currency here).
That is understandable, it is not encouraging, but understandable. We all know the quote from Rudyard Kipling “…walk with Kings-nor lose the common touch”, but not many will achieve it.
So far there have been 4 contents the involve CCP (the 1%) that I have tried out, Brutal DLX, and the 3 from this Carina, and so far the only one that is seem to have the right balance is Lagacy.
CCP Involvement – Are you really benefit from this? I’m going to generalise this, as this is not a personal attack on anyone specific. Also whatever content that come out would have to be approve by Kabam, so it is not down to any one person responsibility. I do understand that the content was created before the revive farm and Zemo root nerf.
We can understand the idea of be involve can be a cool idea, a chance to create a legacy, but is this the legacy you want to be remember for, the person that created that content that most of the community feel like it is unbalance and disconnected.
Instead of the cool, personalised BG emoji being a celebration, it is just a remind for any players that see as something negative and it is link to you. Naturally, if people are feel disconnected to the Content Creator, then naturally they will also watch less of those content, follow less, donate less.
Also I’m not sure if the general responds of “I knew that the community would not reach kindly, but I would not change a thing” or “I don’t care if you don’t like it, I made content that I want to play” or “skill issue”, are really mature responds. Those kind of responds does give a very feeling of arrogant and elitism.
There are a number of CCP players out these to have done or planning to do these challenges, these are the 1% top end players, and even they have politely indicate how hard these challenges, even in their eyes, the best of the best, the expects in these champs, some not even planning to do them any time soon. So maybe, just maybe the community are not overreaching on this matter.
The game, Kabam, the players, the CCP, we are an symbiosis, we all links together, we does better when we understand and being supportive.
Suggestion Solutions
I reiterate, I believe all players are important to the game, and having event and content for the CCP/1% is important too however there are better way, which like I said above some Kabam already done.
Speedrun Do more of the Speedrun (first 10 to complete a content), give those amazing players a big title and lovely profile picture for them to flex, it is fun and the community love watching it (sure many here have watch none stop one of these fav CC do Necropolis to be the top 10)
CCP vs CCP If CCP want to create challenges, sure, here an idea. Pick 2 random CCPs for example Lagacy and AndrewtheRuff Each create a challenge, that the other have to complete within 7 days of the challenges start. Each create BG 2 Emojis, a Victory one and a You failed one. If CCP completed the challenges that the other set within the 7 day they get the cool/good/victory and if they can’t then they get the you failed one.
Great to use to tease each other when they having a BG match.
Sure the community will enjoying watching these live stream, great income for the CCP and great advertising for Kabam, and great community spirit for the players.
Summery is let the 1% create challenges for the 1%.
As for the Currently CCP Carine Challenge, there are so many way and small changes that could make this event so much engaging for a lot more players, I’m just surprise it wasn’t implement.
CCP Carine Challenge Suggest Solution
1) Change – Player get 1 x 7* selector for completing 3 challenges, and get the 2nd 7* selector when finish all 6 challenges. 2) Give out 2 GmG keys, if you have to do 2 run of GmG, it feel less wasteful if you could pick up those chest too. 3) Give the EoP rewards for completing the 2 EoP challenges.
These rewards are nothing game breaking, but it would be help a little for players to willing to rank up unnecessary champs just for these challenges.
Yes, I can hear people already ask, what about those already done all 6, well I’m sure Kabam can send out the same rewards to a handful of the players or even better still give them a cool title and unique profile for being the 1st handful of players to complete all 6 challenges.
I remember seeing how excited players were when first here about the new challenge come, so many were excited and debating which champ they will choose. It was wonderful to see the community so excited, for all of that to disappear within 5 mins of seeing the actual challenges.
There are more idea on how to balance to challenges, but I can’t imagine Kabam will do so no points of listing, however overall I think these little changes (above) would create better players engagement to the content.
This will be the 1st content in the history of mcoc that i will be skipping (except for the sparky stuff to get the KG piece). Last content i didn't do was the Coulson challenge ,i tried but couldn't do it. That was 8 years ago
Are these challenges worse than 4* starlord that you did even before Carina’s challenges were ever a thing?
I do understand the argument that not every challenge or content is for everyone, I will even support it most of the time; but as of right now the pile of "meh this is not for me" is getting higher and higher, which ended up causing a huge reason to not spend, and right now...spending less screen time... Hope there are better things to come, cause honestly other than Necropolis, which gave some kind of false hope of how content will be handled.. a lot of the things released have been a bust. Bad banquet, WoW abs, this challenges, a pretty nasty war tactic, Raids.. they were tuned so we will see... If we keep on the tale of "Not being for everybody" well.. maybe this is not even the game for me.
Carina's Challenges intention is to give 1% top players something to do that requires all the skill and resources they dont have to use on other content.
The fact that we got some that would include "everybody" doesnt make it is the main intention of them.
This content is not supposed to be achievable by most of us, this is not meant to be hard skill wise, but not doable without spending resources.
Why you guys acting suddenly like this MUST be like you want it to be?
The same way nobody gets mad because Celestial in BGs is not achievable by everybody, we shouldnt get mad because is isnt either, because thats the intention behind this content.
If something is released to a demographic of Players, they're going to share their feedback on it. It's dismissive to say "It's not for you so don't complain.". It IS for them. It is content that's released into the game, that's available for them to play. If it's just a challenge among the Gods, then they can challenge themselves without releasing it as content. No one disputes the fact that it's not for everyone. Personally I don't have a horse in the race because I'm quite happy doing it whenever I'm ready. What I would like to point out that the argument that it's not for everyone might apply now and then, when you're talking about lower Players trying to punch above their weight. I still think it can be used dismissively by other Players at times, but it's valid now and then. I haven't seen that in this case. The Players who are complaining about it aren't new. They're at the latter stages of the game. They're literally the top percentile you're referring to. If they're not happy with it, they will communicate that, and it doesn't automatically mean they're spoiled or looking for an easy street. I know this because the Players who are complaining have been here for years, sharing their progress. Be careful using that statement. It doesn't always apply, and it can come off as ignorant. Just a suggestion.
If the player base that this content is supposed to hit is the one complaining right now, why are they complaining exactly?
I mean, If this people complaining have nothing else, anywhere to spend their resources on, as I said, as Its supposed to be for the people targeted by this challenge, why are they complaining? The first round of Carina's Challenge were not funny at all, those werent supposed to be beaten just with skills because the star level and the champion requirements were meant to also require revives, a ton of them or not, depending on how skilled you are, and people understood that yeah, maybe this content wasnt meant to be done the same way than the other content, and most of the people, even at the end-game spectrum, just ignored that content.
Why is this any different from Carina's Challenges 1? Why suddenly Carina's Challenge must be comfortable for the people? Why it must require less revives? Why it must be more inclusive within the communitys rosters?
It never was meant to be comfortable, never was meant to be enjoyable, never was meant to be doable by more than the Top of the top players, the ones that can reach Celestial every season as an example.
I dont really understand this sudden enragement against this content
I'm pretty sure most people are complaining because it's not fun, which you've already acknowledged. What is the point in releasing content that makes you want to delete the game on the spot instead of trying again? These fights are not fun, they're stressful. With Necropolis they proved they can make challenging content that's also fun, why are they going back to doing stuff like this which 90% of the playerbase doesn't enjoy?
The main reason when Carina's Challenge were released was to give people that had nothing to do some real challenges, the same way we had people doing X content with weird champs and uploading them on YouTube, this was for those bored xtremely end game players to have something to do meanwhile.
Im not a fan of those, I dont enjoy that content, and it is not even Content, since its just an additional objective if you wanna do it in already existing content, why would I be this angry about it?
I mean why get angry about Carina's Challenge that is supposed to be the way it is, and it is just an completely optional objective, non game changing, meant to challenge yourself not only skill-wise but your patience aswell.
Obviously is not for 99% of us, but this is an overexageration of the situation
Why? Cause there are good meaningful rewards locked behind them. If what they really want is to give these people something to do then give them pfps or titles for doing the challenges but don't lock any actual rewards behind them cause that's going to get people's attention and they're going to want to do them for obvious reasons.
I can guarantee you 99% of the people on this thread don't want to have their patience or sanity challenged this way. We want more stuff like Necropolis (which was also endgame content for players who had nothing else to do btw). This isn't about complaining about the challenges being tailored around endgame players it's more about the fact that Kabam is starting to go backwards after the massive W that Necropolis was.
“Not for everyone” is nonsense. What company says “screw the 99%”.. stupid business model.
ALL content including karate mikes trainwreck is supposed to be for ALL players of a given progression level. Valiant is currently the highest level.no content should ever be beyond the highest progression level in the game. Anyone that has more than 2 rank 3 7* should be able to do anything without gatekeepers and being told that it wasn’t designed for them!!!
If they want to alienate the people buying all their trinkets then maybe they’re just not smart enough to stay in business
It's sad to see Kabam employees sticking fingers into their ears with these incredibly defensive responses. It's evident from each of Miike, Crashed, and Jax's comments that they aren't interested in feedback from players about these challenges. I was going to come and offer some thoughts on why, as one of those players (arguably) that these challenges were designed for, these challenges miss the mark. But I'm not going to waste time giving constructive criticism to a willfully deaf audience. So good luck I guess, hope you guys are happy with how this all turns out.
This simply isn't true. If I didn't care about player feedback I wouldn't be reading through 200+ post threads at 10pm. I'm not being defensive, I'm simply stating how we see these challenges and their place in the game.
We take feedback seriously and actually earlier today changed the design for an upcoming piece of content based on this feedback. However we aren't just going to acquiesce to everything that players tell us they want, because quite frankly this game wouldn't still exist if we did that. Our job is to find the right balance for the long-term health of the game, and I promise you that is what we all are trying to do.
Many apologies in advance for any missing spelling or incorrect gamma, English is my 2nd language and being dyslexic doesn’t help the matter either.
I would like to break this down into sections in hoping it would convey my point better, as I can imagine it will pretty messy lol.
Credit & Appreciation: - Firstly, I would like to thank you for taking the time to respond to some of the comments on this matter (and also other issues in the past), always felt your responds have a lot more depth and experience.
I would also like to point out some of the positive regarding this CCP Carina content.
1) The Dealthless King Groot is relative accessible – That is much appreciated 2) Rewards included 2 x 7* Selector, this is wonderful and could be use as a solution to the current issue, which I would explain later. 3) Lagacy Challenges (for most players) seem to met the right balance, between challenges, fun, resource invest and rewards.
Creating content for the 1% - Why? So some of the respond I have read from both side, is this idea the content is design for the 1%, that Kabam need to create content so challenging that it would cater for the 1%. I think this itself might be where lie the problem.
Firstly, I agreed the game should have content for all of it players, from the one just download the game to those that essentially make a living from playing it.
However, from my perspective, MCOC already have game mode that naturally filter for the 1% including, AW Tier 1, Raids, BG Celestial, and most recently Kabam did it with Necropolis speed run, Annual BG tournament and even as you said Brian Grant challenges with the Duck.
It is very possible and easy for Kabam to create content challenges for the 1% without making the 99% of the players feel that they are a bunch of unskilled and worthless …“insert your own noun here” lol.
The best thing with these type of contents/events, is it actually brings the community together, no one complaint that they didn’t get a Mythic badge, a unique Profile pic or a personalised title, they know it is not for them, and they enjoy rallying and rooted for these players.
On top of that actually the 1% are great at creating their own amazing challenges, like MSD doing WoW Abs Man with 3* She Hulk, no one asked him to, but he did and it was great, or Slayer of God creating a speed run on this same content.
So there are already plenty of content/event for the 1% and there are more (please see Solution section below)
The 1% & CCP creating Content for the massive – It is really a good idea? This lead me to me second point.
While on paper is sound like a great idea to get someone that the community look upto/fond of/idolise to create content for the rest of the community, but is it really a good idea?
Would the Olympic more entertaining if the world best sport athletes, make us do their challenges?
Would the 100 meter is more exciting if Usain Bolt, make us try and keep up with him for 100 meter before watching him race?
Would football be better, if Ronaldo make us have to run 10 laps of the pitch before watching the game?
Why would the idea of getting the best players in MCOC to create challenges for rest of the community players.
I seem a few comments on how the 1% top players are disconnected with the community, and overall (generalising), yes that is the case, and it should of no surprise to anyone.
Husan Bolts would not understand how you (an average person) run at your speed, it is far too slow for him.
Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk would have no ideal how common people survive on a few pound/dollars/(insert your own currency here).
That is understandable, it is not encouraging, but understandable. We all know the quote from Rudyard Kipling “…walk with Kings-nor lose the common touch”, but not many will achieve it.
So far there have been 4 contents the involve CCP (the 1%) that I have tried out, Brutal DLX, and the 3 from this Carina, and so far the only one that is seem to have the right balance is Lagacy.
CCP Involvement – Are you really benefit from this? I’m going to generalise this, as this is not a personal attack on anyone specific. Also whatever content that come out would have to be approve by Kabam, so it is not down to any one person responsibility. I do understand that the content was created before the revive farm and Zemo root nerf.
We can understand the idea of be involve can be a cool idea, a chance to create a legacy, but is this the legacy you want to be remember for, the person that created that content that most of the community feel like it is unbalance and disconnected.
Instead of the cool, personalised BG emoji being a celebration, it is just a remind for any players that see as something negative and it is link to you. Naturally, if people are feel disconnected to the Content Creator, then naturally they will also watch less of those content, follow less, donate less.
Also I’m not sure if the general responds of “I knew that the community would not reach kindly, but I would not change a thing” or “I don’t care if you don’t like it, I made content that I want to play” or “skill issue”, are really mature responds. Those kind of responds does give a very feeling of arrogant and elitism.
There are a number of CCP players out these to have done or planning to do these challenges, these are the 1% top end players, and even they have politely indicate how hard these challenges, even in their eyes, the best of the best, the expects in these champs, some not even planning to do them any time soon. So maybe, just maybe the community are not overreaching on this matter.
The game, Kabam, the players, the CCP, we are an symbiosis, we all links together, we does better when we understand and being supportive.
Suggestion Solutions
I reiterate, I believe all players are important to the game, and having event and content for the CCP/1% is important too however there are better way, which like I said above some Kabam already done.
Speedrun Do more of the Speedrun (first 10 to complete a content), give those amazing players a big title and lovely profile picture for them to flex, it is fun and the community love watching it (sure many here have watch none stop one of these fav CC do Necropolis to be the top 10)
CCP vs CCP If CCP want to create challenges, sure, here an idea. Pick 2 random CCPs for example Lagacy and AndrewtheRuff Each create a challenge, that the other have to complete within 7 days of the challenges start. Each create BG 2 Emojis, a Victory one and a You failed one. If CCP completed the challenges that the other set within the 7 day they get the cool/good/victory and if they can’t then they get the you failed one.
Great to use to tease each other when they having a BG match.
Sure the community will enjoying watching these live stream, great income for the CCP and great advertising for Kabam, and great community spirit for the players.
Summery is let the 1% create challenges for the 1%.
As for the Currently CCP Carine Challenge, there are so many way and small changes that could make this event so much engaging for a lot more players, I’m just surprise it wasn’t implement.
CCP Carine Challenge Suggest Solution
1) Change – Player get 1 x 7* selector for completing 3 challenges, and get the 2nd 7* selector when finish all 6 challenges. 2) Give out 2 GmG keys, if you have to do 2 run of GmG, it feel less wasteful if you could pick up those chest too. 3) Give the EoP rewards for completing the 2 EoP challenges.
These rewards are nothing game breaking, but it would be help a little for players to willing to rank up unnecessary champs just for these challenges.
Yes, I can hear people already ask, what about those already done all 6, well I’m sure Kabam can send out the same rewards to a handful of the players or even better still give them a cool title and unique profile for being the 1st handful of players to complete all 6 challenges.
I remember seeing how excited players were when first here about the new challenge come, so many were excited and debating which champ they will choose. It was wonderful to see the community so excited, for all of that to disappear within 5 mins of seeing the actual challenges.
There are more idea on how to balance to challenges, but I can’t imagine Kabam will do so no points of listing, however overall I think these little changes (above) would create better players engagement to the content.
This will be the 1st content in the history of mcoc that i will be skipping (except for the sparky stuff to get the KG piece). Last content i didn't do was the Coulson challenge ,i tried but couldn't do it. That was 8 years ago
Are these challenges worse than 4* starlord that you did even before Carina’s challenges were ever a thing?
There are more idea on how to balance to challenges, but I can’t imagine Kabam will do so no points of listing, however overall I think these little changes (above) would create better players engagement to the content.
I just wanted to thank you and everyone else in the community who has provided detailed feedback like this. It's too late to make changes to these challenges, doing so at this point would be more work than creating new ones, but I want to say I really appreciate the response and again reiterate that we are absolutely paying attention to the feedback we are receiving.
My thoughts are simple, I spend hours everyday playing this game. When Necropolis came out, I was super motivated. The rewards were worth the time and effort to get the content completed.
Then we had the December Banquet event let down, and not pushing AW back two weeks for the holidays like they have done for the past 3 years. Continued with AW, even though there was a large outcry over the defender tactic and attack tactic that was “supposed” to counter it. Kabam knew they messed up, that’s why it was tuned down this season. I’m pretty sure if they would have delayed the AW season like everyone wanted, the tune down would have occurred during that first season. An expensive war for a lot of high tier alliances.
Then we get WoW, which is great, super motivated to complete the objectives. But then we run into a wall with the #Robot objective. Using a lot of resources again, for something that feels more like a chore, than fun. I’m relieved that Kabam walks this one back and allows us to skip it. There’s hard content and there’s content that starts to break your spirit.
Then this content comes out. I know we don’t have to do it, but the timing of this feels demoralizing, and like another cash grab designed to deplete your resources. Even if that isn’t the intent, it feels that way to a majority of the player base that is complaining about this. WoW came out last week and were have another one, with new objectives next week. Of it feels overwhelming for me, I know it feels that way for other people.
This will be the 1st content in the history of mcoc that i will be skipping (except for the sparky stuff to get the KG piece). Last content i didn't do was the Coulson challenge ,i tried but couldn't do it. That was 8 years ago
Are these challenges worse than 4* starlord that you did even before Carina’s challenges were ever a thing?
Much worse ya, are you talking about LOL?
Sorry, but these challenges are not worse than the Labyrinth challenges from vol 1. No fight in the 4* labyrinth challenges was soloable- those were legitimate revive dumps that nobody could out-skill. These on the other hand (even fins) can be done for very cheap with proper knowledge and execution. People complain about this new batch as if its tuned just the same as those labyrinth ones, when they are in fact significantly more player-friendly and skill focused (fin made sure every single fight in his challenges were soloable). I know that being better than the vol 1 labyrinth challenges is a low bar, but these pass that bar easily, despite the complaints that its a mandatory resource drain.
This will be the 1st content in the history of mcoc that i will be skipping (except for the sparky stuff to get the KG piece). Last content i didn't do was the Coulson challenge ,i tried but couldn't do it. That was 8 years ago
Are these challenges worse than 4* starlord that you did even before Carina’s challenges were ever a thing?
Much worse ya, are you talking about LOL?
Sorry, but these challenges are not worse than the Labyrinth challenges from vol 1. No fight in the 4* labyrinth challenges was soloable- those were legitimate revive dumps that nobody could out-skill. These on the other hand (even fins) can be done for very cheap with proper knowledge and execution. People complain about this new batch as if its tuned just the same as those labyrinth ones, when they are in fact significantly more player-friendly and skill focused (fin made sure every single fight in his challenges were soloable). I know that being better than the vol 1 labyrinth challenges is a low bar, but these pass that bar easily, despite the complaints that its a mandatory resource drain.
That challenge required zero investment and you got good rewards. This one requires pretty massive investment and you get terrible rewards
Comments
What I won't do is waste my stash on this when there are better and more relevant rewards from other end-game content like WoW and act 8.4 around the corner.
Once I can get the KG piece this will go on the back burner like half of the previous 4* Carina Chellenges I still haven't done.
He needs a simple kit buff similar to OG spidey where you can choose when not to evade if you are blocking.
To crashed: you mentioned being happy with a lot of content being available- what content? BGs is in such a poor state reward wise the 5 time top player has complained about the rewards for at least 4 seasons+ and it STILL hasn't seen an update. Incursions is a bug riddled mess with the latest in black screen technology. AW, WOW, RAIDS and the latest and greatest Carinas challenges are all subject to AI woes that haven’t been addressed, ALL got overtuned somehow, and (if they happened to be in a good state reward wise) it was because of a literal bug which gave us excess glory. The side quests have practically been dead for months if not a year with the occasional heartbeat. Necro was amazing- but frankly those glasses are probably rose tinted because we had a REVIVE SOURCE that wasnt garbage or took months round out a stash. You mentioned you didnt use units to explore it… please tell me you didnt revive farm. Because the implication isnt that necro wasnt difficult enough, just that there was an option to not spend your way through it which is the quiet part you all keep teasing but bending into knots to not say out loud.
The comfort you offered to us “about having changed something” behind the scenes is just as easily read: “we have something so overtuned in the works we had to bite back because we almost made another oops”. The fatigue this cycle illicits is copious
No one disputes the fact that it's not for everyone. Personally I don't have a horse in the race because I'm quite happy doing it whenever I'm ready. What I would like to point out that the argument that it's not for everyone might apply now and then, when you're talking about lower Players trying to punch above their weight. I still think it can be used dismissively by other Players at times, but it's valid now and then.
I haven't seen that in this case. The Players who are complaining about it aren't new. They're at the latter stages of the game. They're literally the top percentile you're referring to. If they're not happy with it, they will communicate that, and it doesn't automatically mean they're spoiled or looking for an easy street. I know this because the Players who are complaining have been here for years, sharing their progress. Be careful using that statement. It doesn't always apply, and it can come off as ignorant. Just a suggestion.
I realize these next statements are heavy handed, but I believe they should be considered:
1. If you are only going to focus on the top 1% for the immediate future, I wouldn't be surprised if that 1% suddenly becomes 10-20% of your player base as summoners check out.
2. Here's a suggestion that will be something 100% of your player base can enjoy and benefit from. Get AI under control and get bugs fixed faster(And yes I understand easier said than done).
Challenges are fine but can't you at least make them fun? It's like y'all released Necropolis and then suddenly decided to go back to making content annoying as hell, do better Kabam.
I mean, If this people complaining have nothing else, anywhere to spend their resources on, as I said, as Its supposed to be for the people targeted by this challenge, why are they complaining? The first round of Carina's Challenge were not funny at all, those werent supposed to be beaten just with skills because the star level and the champion requirements were meant to also require revives, a ton of them or not, depending on how skilled you are, and people understood that yeah, maybe this content wasnt meant to be done the same way than the other content, and most of the people, even at the end-game spectrum, just ignored that content.
Why is this any different from Carina's Challenges 1? Why suddenly Carina's Challenge must be comfortable for the people? Why it must require less revives? Why it must be more inclusive within the communitys rosters?
It never was meant to be comfortable, never was meant to be enjoyable, never was meant to be doable by more than the Top of the top players, the ones that can reach Celestial every season as an example.
I dont really understand this sudden enragement against this content
With Necropolis they proved they can make challenging content that's also fun, why are they going back to doing stuff like this which 90% of the playerbase doesn't enjoy?
I'm sure they don't want content that's too easy themselves. I've seen many of them remind Players of the same things you're pointing out over the years. I think, without assuming their thoughts and feelings, that they want to be challenged and engaged. If it's going to be overly-painful, then the Rewards should reflect that.
That's my take. Someone correct me if I'm off.
This content really isn’t one of the things I have an issue with and sympathise with Kabam to a degree on this one. The challenges are for more difficult for me to complete (except the Starky one) without using more resources than I’d be comfortable with. It’s too hard, I’m not skilled enough. But there’s also nothing in the rewards that makes me feel I’m missing out by choosing to not take part.
I’m not as skilled as MSD so I probably shouldn’t be able to complete everything he can complete, at least not without some pain to my account. I could unit man through all of this, but it’s not worth. The rewards don’t justify it for me, but the challenge itself probably does justify it for MSD and the like.
I do agree with the points that these challenges shouldn’t requires use of end game rank up materials. If there’s a range of champions that can be used that’s one thing, but if the challenge is using 1 specific champion, that’s less than ideal.
8.4 will be released soon enough and that will be tailored for the masses. I think this content is tuned specifically for the absolute best of the best to give them something to do. I doubt the likes of MSD, Karate Mike, Lagacy, KT1 are going to be using a lot of resources on 8.4 or even Winter Of Woe. I don’t care if they have some stupidly hard content that at the end offers some trinkets that don’t impact on me if I can’t get them. Ok the 7* champs would be nice but it’s not a game changer to miss out.
Now Winter Of Woe is a different story for a different thread.
Im not a fan of those, I dont enjoy that content, and it is not even Content, since its just an additional objective if you wanna do it in already existing content, why would I be this angry about it?
I mean why get angry about Carina's Challenge that is supposed to be the way it is, and it is just an completely optional objective, non game changing, meant to challenge yourself not only skill-wise but your patience aswell.
Obviously is not for 99% of us, but this is an overexageration of the situation
The thoughts are a few things lately are just not fun anymore.
Needs to be a good balance between challenging and enjoyable,which yes it's difficult to please everyone but I just feel it's so off right now.I'm not expecting to be doing content itemless if the rewards are worth it. But I want to be able to feel it's actually achievable for a standard player, which is what the majority of the community is.
A few, myself included, in my alliance are at a point where we have explored what's released of act8 and waiting for 8.4. So having some additional content in the mean time like some extra challenges would be welcome, like 7for7 etc. Because what I'm finding is that players are getting tired of the repetitive content of AQ, AW, EQ etc. So they were quite excited about something new but now are disheartened. So it's leaving people feeling like it's just grind of the same old so they are getting bored and dropping the game.
Many apologies in advance for any missing spelling or incorrect gamma, English is my 2nd language and being dyslexic doesn’t help the matter either.
I would like to break this down into sections in hoping it would convey my point better, as I can imagine it will pretty messy lol.
Credit & Appreciation: -
Firstly, I would like to thank you for taking the time to respond to some of the comments on this matter (and also other issues in the past), always felt your responds have a lot more depth and experience.
I would also like to point out some of the positive regarding this CCP Carina content.
1) The Dealthless King Groot is relative accessible – That is much appreciated
2) Rewards included 2 x 7* Selector, this is wonderful and could be use as a solution to the current issue, which I would explain later.
3) Lagacy Challenges (for most players) seem to met the right balance, between challenges, fun, resource invest and rewards.
Creating content for the 1% - Why?
So some of the respond I have read from both side, is this idea the content is design for the 1%, that Kabam need to create content so challenging that it would cater for the 1%. I think this itself might be where lie the problem.
Firstly, I agreed the game should have content for all of it players, from the one just download the game to those that essentially make a living from playing it.
However, from my perspective, MCOC already have game mode that naturally filter for the 1% including, AW Tier 1, Raids, BG Celestial, and most recently Kabam did it with Necropolis speed run, Annual BG tournament and even as you said Brian Grant challenges with the Duck.
It is very possible and easy for Kabam to create content challenges for the 1% without making the 99% of the players feel that they are a bunch of unskilled and worthless …“insert your own noun here” lol.
The best thing with these type of contents/events, is it actually brings the community together, no one complaint that they didn’t get a Mythic badge, a unique Profile pic or a personalised title, they know it is not for them, and they enjoy rallying and rooted for these players.
On top of that actually the 1% are great at creating their own amazing challenges, like MSD doing WoW Abs Man with 3* She Hulk, no one asked him to, but he did and it was great, or Slayer of God creating a speed run on this same content.
So there are already plenty of content/event for the 1% and there are more (please see Solution section below)
The 1% & CCP creating Content for the massive – It is really a good idea?
This lead me to me second point.
While on paper is sound like a great idea to get someone that the community look upto/fond of/idolise to create content for the rest of the community, but is it really a good idea?
Would the Olympic more entertaining if the world best sport athletes, make us do their challenges?
Would the 100 meter is more exciting if Usain Bolt, make us try and keep up with him for 100 meter before watching him race?
Would football be better, if Ronaldo make us have to run 10 laps of the pitch before watching the game?
Why would the idea of getting the best players in MCOC to create challenges for rest of the community players.
I seem a few comments on how the 1% top players are disconnected with the community, and overall (generalising), yes that is the case, and it should of no surprise to anyone.
Husan Bolts would not understand how you (an average person) run at your speed, it is far too slow for him.
Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk would have no ideal how common people survive on a few pound/dollars/(insert your own currency here).
That is understandable, it is not encouraging, but understandable. We all know the quote from Rudyard Kipling “…walk with Kings-nor lose the common touch”, but not many will achieve it.
So far there have been 4 contents the involve CCP (the 1%) that I have tried out, Brutal DLX, and the 3 from this Carina, and so far the only one that is seem to have the right balance is Lagacy.
CCP Involvement – Are you really benefit from this?
I’m going to generalise this, as this is not a personal attack on anyone specific. Also whatever content that come out would have to be approve by Kabam, so it is not down to any one person responsibility. I do understand that the content was created before the revive farm and Zemo root nerf.
We can understand the idea of be involve can be a cool idea, a chance to create a legacy, but is this the legacy you want to be remember for, the person that created that content that most of the community feel like it is unbalance and disconnected.
Instead of the cool, personalised BG emoji being a celebration, it is just a remind for any players that see as something negative and it is link to you. Naturally, if people are feel disconnected to the Content Creator, then naturally they will also watch less of those content, follow less, donate less.
Also I’m not sure if the general responds of “I knew that the community would not reach kindly, but I would not change a thing” or “I don’t care if you don’t like it, I made content that I want to play” or “skill issue”, are really mature responds. Those kind of responds does give a very feeling of arrogant and elitism.
There are a number of CCP players out these to have done or planning to do these challenges, these are the 1% top end players, and even they have politely indicate how hard these challenges, even in their eyes, the best of the best, the expects in these champs, some not even planning to do them any time soon. So maybe, just maybe the community are not overreaching on this matter.
The game, Kabam, the players, the CCP, we are an symbiosis, we all links together, we does better when we understand and being supportive.
Suggestion Solutions
I reiterate, I believe all players are important to the game, and having event and content for the CCP/1% is important too however there are better way, which like I said above some Kabam already done.
Speedrun
Do more of the Speedrun (first 10 to complete a content), give those amazing players a big title and lovely profile picture for them to flex, it is fun and the community love watching it (sure many here have watch none stop one of these fav CC do Necropolis to be the top 10)
CCP vs CCP
If CCP want to create challenges, sure, here an idea.
Pick 2 random CCPs for example Lagacy and AndrewtheRuff
Each create a challenge, that the other have to complete within 7 days of the challenges start.
Each create BG 2 Emojis, a Victory one and a You failed one.
If CCP completed the challenges that the other set within the 7 day they get the cool/good/victory and if they can’t then they get the you failed one.
Great to use to tease each other when they having a BG match.
Sure the community will enjoying watching these live stream, great income for the CCP and great advertising for Kabam, and great community spirit for the players.
Summery is let the 1% create challenges for the 1%.
As for the Currently CCP Carine Challenge, there are so many way and small changes that could make this event so much engaging for a lot more players, I’m just surprise it wasn’t implement.
CCP Carine Challenge Suggest Solution
1) Change – Player get 1 x 7* selector for completing 3 challenges, and get the 2nd 7* selector when finish all 6 challenges.
2) Give out 2 GmG keys, if you have to do 2 run of GmG, it feel less wasteful if you could pick up those chest too.
3) Give the EoP rewards for completing the 2 EoP challenges.
These rewards are nothing game breaking, but it would be help a little for players to willing to rank up unnecessary champs just for these challenges.
Yes, I can hear people already ask, what about those already done all 6, well I’m sure Kabam can send out the same rewards to a handful of the players or even better still give them a cool title and unique profile for being the 1st handful of players to complete all 6 challenges.
I remember seeing how excited players were when first here about the new challenge come, so many were excited and debating which champ they will choose. It was wonderful to see the community so excited, for all of that to disappear within 5 mins of seeing the actual challenges.
There are more idea on how to balance to challenges, but I can’t imagine Kabam will do so no points of listing, however overall I think these little changes (above) would create better players engagement to the content.
Bad banquet, WoW abs, this challenges, a pretty nasty war tactic, Raids.. they were tuned so we will see...
If we keep on the tale of "Not being for everybody" well.. maybe this is not even the game for me.
If what they really want is to give these people something to do then give them pfps or titles for doing the challenges but don't lock any actual rewards behind them cause that's going to get people's attention and they're going to want to do them for obvious reasons.
I can guarantee you 99% of the people on this thread don't want to have their patience or sanity challenged this way. We want more stuff like Necropolis (which was also endgame content for players who had nothing else to do btw). This isn't about complaining about the challenges being tailored around endgame players it's more about the fact that Kabam is starting to go backwards after the massive W that Necropolis was.
ALL content including karate mikes trainwreck is supposed to be for ALL players of a given progression level. Valiant is currently the highest level.no content should ever be beyond the highest progression level in the game. Anyone that has more than 2 rank 3 7* should be able to do anything without gatekeepers and being told that it wasn’t designed for them!!!
If they want to alienate the people buying all their trinkets then maybe they’re just not smart enough to stay in business
Then we had the December Banquet event let down, and not pushing AW back two weeks for the holidays like they have done for the past 3 years. Continued with AW, even though there was a large outcry over the defender tactic and attack tactic that was “supposed” to counter it. Kabam knew they messed up, that’s why it was tuned down this season. I’m pretty sure if they would have delayed the AW season like everyone wanted, the tune down would have occurred during that first season. An expensive war for a lot of high tier alliances.
Then we get WoW, which is great, super motivated to complete the objectives. But then we run into a wall with the #Robot objective. Using a lot of resources again, for something that feels more like a chore, than fun. I’m relieved that Kabam walks this one back and allows us to skip it. There’s hard content and there’s content that starts to break your spirit.
Then this content comes out. I know we don’t have to do it, but the timing of this feels demoralizing, and like another cash grab designed to deplete your resources. Even if that isn’t the intent, it feels that way to a majority of the player base that is complaining about this. WoW came out last week and were have another one, with new objectives next week. Of it feels overwhelming for me, I know it feels that way for other people.
I know that being better than the vol 1 labyrinth challenges is a low bar, but these pass that bar easily, despite the complaints that its a mandatory resource drain.