I read through the whole thread and i feel like i have to say a couple things.
First off i made sure every single fight in the Tigra/JP challenge would be soloable with the right strategy, mastery set up and boosts so calling it a cash grab or unit sink without even stopping to think how you should go about taking each fight is a bit unfair. I do not think doing the challenge itemless is possible due to some guaranteed damage you’ll take in a few fights but having to use potions here and there can hardly be considered a problem.
Now to respond to the comments about the difficulty level; i can’t speak for Lagacy or Karatemike but the difficulty of the challenges i created was 100% intentional and i was well aware the community would not react too kindly to it right off the bat. That said i do not regret the decision and i wouldn’t change it even now after all the comments i have received. The word ”challenge” has gone stale around the very top of the playerbase so i can only hope these will at least remind everyone what that word once meant.
As for how many revives it cost me on the submission runs? Less than your average players Necropolis completion path
I was watching one of your fellow content creators stream a couple days ago and (i'm paraphrasing here, watch the vid if you want the actual words) he actually indicated that from what he knows about you, your challenge might be a bit elitist. He wasn't wrong.
This is interesting.
It definitely is an elitist objective and the closest thing we’ve seen to content like the 4* Labyrinth of Legends where you had to spam revives.
I feel like its not just Fintech that the “feedback” should be targeted to , but rather Kabam should have some form of Quality Control in which stuff like this gets thoroughly reviewed prior to its approval. Just because Fintech soloed each fight should not be the parameter to look for, because this is taking challenging content to , like the post said, an Elitist perspective.
I strongly urge Kabam to look into Quality Control suggestion, or improve it if they already have one.
Releasing this right after the chaos that was brewed from the Winter of Woe Abs fight will only make players fear what content lies ahead and cause players to play and spend less.
You are welcome to discuss the challenges and have your thoughts on them, but I want to be very clear, attacking any one of our creators directly will not be tolerated. Nobody "betrayed the community" by doing exactly what was asked, to create extremely hard content.
We will not tolerate any form of personal attacks, and we will take action on your game account if we think that it is necessary.
Honestly have to wonder though if the community is this misaligned with the CCP then perhaps this might be why Kabam and the community are completely misaligned on things like this as well. It might be worth looking at the CCP makeup to assess if it accurately represents the community
Brian Grant accurately represents an average mcoc summoner.....that's about it. KMs thumbnail yesterday was 160 paragons and 9 7 star opening lolol....That is the FARTHEST thing from an average player....the disconnect is REAL and if I hear one more person say this is for the 1% y'all need to take a statistics lesson. .01% of the community CANT and WONT attempt 66.66% of these challenges....there's probably 2-300 people who can do this (and be ok spening 100 revives to do it)....I wonder if they realize when they spend 25+ revives what an ABOVE AVERAGE mcoc player will have to invest. This isn't hate either. I respect the grind they all turned into some income....just pointing out far off the top creators are when measuring an avg summoner vs them and maybe 100 other people.....wayyyyy off. And if they are self aware.....well that's just a slap in the face as lots of CCP people get input and when your input only serves you and your boys......welp....that's the beginning of the end of this game
My favorite part of this thread is Kabam employees trying to justify and argue with their clients. Okay so you made content for 1% of the base… content isn’t for everyone… WHACY CONTENT EXISTS. Lmao. Completely looking over at least 10-15 very realistic issues brought up by the community with this new content. 😂👍🏼
I keep on reading this thread and I have a question... One of the rewards for the challenges is a Selector, to acquire some of the champs needed for such challenges... Wouldn't it make sense to attach some mats at the same time?... I mean how many players really want to invest on some of the champs in the challenge?... We are talking about multiple and different Catalyst, a good ammount of gold and ISO just to do challenges... The investment is not just time, revives and other stuff.. is ranking up some champs that most likely will never ne used again...
The use of some heavy top end resources (mats, ISO & health items) for "fun" that you wont get back and get limited to no use of outside of this definitely takes some of the fun out of most of this, unless you are in the 1% and have those resources expiring weekly.
Best part of it really is that it is optional, so I might do most of it in the future when it doesn't cost so much relatively. Then again I said that about exploring Abyss - still haven't lol. FOMO is the key thing here and there's not much to miss out on right now.
It's sad to see Kabam employees sticking fingers into their ears with these incredibly defensive responses. It's evident from each of Miike, Crashed, and Jax's comments that they aren't interested in feedback from players about these challenges. I was going to come and offer some thoughts on why, as one of those players (arguably) that these challenges were designed for, these challenges miss the mark. But I'm not going to waste time giving constructive criticism to a willfully deaf audience. So good luck I guess, hope you guys are happy with how this all turns out.
This simply isn't true. If I didn't care about player feedback I wouldn't be reading through 200+ post threads at 10pm. I'm not being defensive, I'm simply stating how we see these challenges and their place in the game.
We take feedback seriously and actually earlier today changed the design for an upcoming piece of content based on this feedback. However we aren't just going to acquiesce to everything that players tell us they want, because quite frankly this game wouldn't still exist if we did that. Our job is to find the right balance for the long-term health of the game, and I promise you that is what we all are trying to do.
You are welcome to discuss the challenges and have your thoughts on them, but I want to be very clear, attacking any one of our creators directly will not be tolerated. Nobody "betrayed the community" by doing exactly what was asked, to create extremely hard content.
We will not tolerate any form of personal attacks, and we will take action on your game account if we think that it is necessary.
Honestly have to wonder though if the community is this misaligned with the CCP then perhaps this might be why Kabam and the community are completely misaligned on things like this as well. It might be worth looking at the CCP makeup to assess if it accurately represents the community
Brian Grant accurately represents an average mcoc summoner.....that's about it. KMs thumbnail yesterday was 160 paragons and 9 7 star opening lolol....That is the FARTHEST thing from an average player....the disconnect is REAL and if I hear one more person say this is for the 1% y'all need to take a statistics lesson. .01% of the community CANT and WONT attempt 66.66% of these challenges....there's probably 2-300 people who can do this (and be ok spening 100 revives to do it)....I wonder if they realize when they spend 25+ revives what an ABOVE AVERAGE mcoc player will have to invest. This isn't hate either. I respect the grind they all turned into some income....just pointing out far off the top creators are when measuring an avg summoner vs them and maybe 100 other people.....wayyyyy off. And if they are self aware.....well that's just a slap in the face as lots of CCP people get input and when your input only serves you and your boys......welp....that's the beginning of the end of this game
I don't believe BG represents the average Player. He represents someone who strives to play for free. The average Player doesn't play to the extremes he does..
Our job is to find the right balance for the long-term health of the game.
I totally agree with you on this. And probably these Carina's challenges are not so meaningful to justify any drama.
But I hope you don't underestimate the negative impact that things have on the health of your players. Having top players like KM testing content and gauging difficulty of content is taking you away from the reality of 99.9% of the players base. My suggestion for you would be to include in your beta program not only content creators and pro players but also normal players at different progression levels, gauge content for different personas.
This said, speaking about the new Carina's challenges, I honestly don't believe the rewards justify the level of difficulty (and zero fun) presented by KM and FT. We realized they're completely out-of-touch with the community.
It's sad to see Kabam employees sticking fingers into their ears with these incredibly defensive responses. It's evident from each of Miike, Crashed, and Jax's comments that they aren't interested in feedback from players about these challenges. I was going to come and offer some thoughts on why, as one of those players (arguably) that these challenges were designed for, these challenges miss the mark. But I'm not going to waste time giving constructive criticism to a willfully deaf audience. So good luck I guess, hope you guys are happy with how this all turns out.
This simply isn't true. If I didn't care about player feedback I wouldn't be reading through 200+ post threads at 10pm. I'm not being defensive, I'm simply stating how we see these challenges and their place in the game.
We take feedback seriously and actually earlier today changed the design for an upcoming piece of content based on this feedback. However we aren't just going to acquiesce to everything that players tell us they want, because quite frankly this game wouldn't still exist if we did that. Our job is to find the right balance for the long-term health of the game, and I promise you that is what we all are trying to do.
I genuinely believe that you do care. Because unless I’m mistaken community management isn’t your main focus so posting and discussing with us demonstrates this well IMO. Here’s are points that I hope are constructive feedback so the team to consider:
1.) I think it’s amazing and well thought out that the team gave us 5star Starky to even attempt the first 2 challenges. Clearly these were tuned to be fun and attainable challenges for the whole community. I also applaud the team on the 6star selectors, that’s another pro-player move to help us all participate in the challenges. I feel this has been overlooked reading the other feedback but we should acknowledge well thought out positive elements too.
2.) With the thoughts that went into champ attainment it’s frustrating that rank up materials were not also considered and are left out of the rewards. This is a top tier resource ask at this time. Yes, it’s permanent content… but that really doesn’t mean the rewards are permanently relevant. This was a BIG miss.
3.) Clearly these challenges were designed to have difficulty tiers. Lagacy, KarateMike, and Fintech put themselves out on a limb and were given 0 proactive protection from Kabam. I don’t understand that at all and it definitely wasn’t fair or considerate to them. Lags is getting loads of love for being asked to help with the entry difficulty while Fin gets hate for helping with the top tier difficulty. These challenges were not created to be equal and instead of slapping a CCP members name next to it as a shield for Kabam, Kabam should have listed difficulty levels next to these to protect the CCP members and should have told us this before release. I don’t think this was well thought out as I’m describing the resulting perception and not the intent here. It’s gonna make future partnerships with others harder to do if you leave team favorites out to dry like this.
4.) I think the announcement and release timing of these challenges was very very poorly managed. To put this out now wasn’t well thought out. These challenges should have been issued last month while revive farming was still live in those spots. The team allowed it for Necropolis and these are not Necropolis tier rewards. You even had fun with the bottomless rewards by issuing the Ducks challenge. We all had fun, the game got positive publicity as a crazy man did the crazy thing. Fin’s challenge difficulty isn’t too far removed from that challenge in terms of what it will cost most that attempt and complete it, it would have made these at least more fun. Plus the community would’ve been more mad about Bullseye and wouldn’t know the Woe that’s WoW Abs Man. Releasing these now was poorly considered.
As for what could be done to earn a little good will back? Maybe a special event apothecary to help the community earn revives at a slightly increased rate would be nice, another idea would be to buff the rewards to include 6star rank up gems for 3-4 and 4-5 rank ups. At least offset that cost and maybe that will help the medicine go down smoother here.
Name an average Player who can do Necro with Howard the Duck. 😉
If the average player had MSD on call, along with the amount of revives BG farmed, I’m sure they can do it. Your comment lacks context of what happened.
Name an average Player who can do Necro with Howard the Duck. 😉
If the average player had MSD on call, along with the amount of revives BG farmed, I’m sure they can do it. Your comment lacks context of what happened.
Name an average Player who can do Necro with Howard the Duck. 😉
Skill wise BG is not at the top like other CCP members. Also he had access to revive farming, I'm sure a lot of people could do it with a similar amount of revives, if they wanted to ofc
Ill be honest, Lagacy's challenge is kinda cool, Miike's one is achievable, not easy, but I think Ill be able to have it done, but Fintech's one is not doable, it is already a hard task to do it without any champ restrictions, but If you add that restriction, you would have to spend an indecent amount of revives and pots to be able to do it, you have to spend already 50+ for some of the "easy" EOP paths, this challenge will probably take you to 100+.
Ill just show the pros and cons of this Carina's Challenges:
Pros:
1. Permanent content. 2. Something to do when you reach the absolute end-game and you have nothing else to do. 3. You can use the revives that would expire otherwise (if this is the case)
Cons:
1. The rewards are not the best one at least for the last challenge (Fintech's one), since you would have to spend more value in resources that you get by doing this challenge. (At least for me, the 7* are nice but I dont think I would personally spend that much just to get those specific champs as 7*). 2. Half of them are skill based, and the other half are just a resource trash can to throw revives till you get past that point. 3. Half of them are "enjoyable", the other half aint enjoyable at all.
I mean, those are Carina's Challenges after all, those aint for everybody, they must not be for everybody, I think community lost the main meaning of the Carina's Challenge, those are meant to be done with a lot of revives, those are meant to be done for the people that has nothing else to do or has nothing else to spend his resources on.
The fact that we got some achievable ones like the Guillotine's or the Act 7 content, it does not mean that this kind of challenges should be the ones we get each time they release a Carina's Challenge.
We have to spend the revives on Winter of Woe right now, since it is the only content that is not permanent, after that the main thing would be spending the revives on Necropolis till Exploration, and just after that, we can start to think about doing the Miikes and Fintechs challenges with all the resources we have that we are not using, but only if you really want to do them, if not, just let them wait till you are able, capable, or you just want to do them.
I dont think this is a L for Kabam, and I dont think we should see this as end-game content like we see Necro or Abyss, this is supposed to be looked at like we looked at the first Carina's Challenges, not that fun, not that easy, not doable without a decent amount of revives. And we must not blame those Content Creators that had the idea of the challenge itself, since thats what they were asked to do.
I dont think I have anything else to say, just stop getting mad by things that are not made the way you want them to be made, but the way Kabam wants it to be done.
If you dont wanna do this content, dont do it, you wont be losing anything that you absolutely need, those are just "regular" rewards, some 7* Shards, a couple emotes, a couple titles, and some temporal trophy champs as 7* which are not a must at all.
I would say that Lagacy's too easy than what I would expect from a modern Carina challenge, but when you consider the rewards I'd say the difficulty matches, besides, it's fun! I'd like future challenges doing this-doing story quests with story bosses using one champion, it was fun especially cuz I've never really used Starky before
The other challenges tho? Come on... It's actually funny how Lagacy's and the others' challenges hold the same individual rewards
I'm just pissed about shoving down overhyped zemo in our throats over and over since his launch. And there you go, a challenge just to force players to use Zemo. Someone is compensating for overhyping it.
If any decent amount of resources (rankup mats) were available to go along with these massive resource dump challenges, many people would be happy to take the challanges head on including me.
Rewards as a ' rare champion' do not match the resources that needed to be dumped on 6 challanges. It's pointless at this point to argue against this repeating Zemo agenda.
From a principle standpoint, I personally don't mind og Avengers, tigra jabari or mojo.
Seems like we're past the time of fun and challenging content and back to the roots with horrible "challenges" made for draining wallets. Least the sparky one was fun. May do the Zemo or Avengers one. The rest can wait. Forever.
I know there is a huge backlash as to the difficulty. It is incredibly difficult, but it is quite easy to be ignored. do a lagacy challenge for the KG piece and ignore the rest until you have overflowing revives/ these champs at high 7* level. thats what i'm gonna do.
I would have loved the same difficulty with having to rank up 8 (5stars) to max, instead of having to rank up 8 (6 or 7 stars) and use sooooo many end game resources on irrelevant champs that you will never use again. When you are a valiant player who is trying to keep up with the other valiant/paragon players (especially in Battlegrounds), we have to choose our rank ups very carefully. Ranking up black widow/antman/thor/hawkeye/jabari panther/mojo really hurts our accounts. Tigra/ironman/zemo are the only champs that are easier to spend the rank up resources on. This is why Lagacys challenge was GENIUS, even if it was exactly the same difficulty as Fintechs and Karate Mikes, players would NOT mind it as much because maxing out 8 5stars is reasonable for some side/OPTIONAL challenges, and we wouldn't feel like we are taking away from our end game/battlegrounds rosters (top 30 champs) so much (except for gold and ISO of course).
So rank up your 5* versions instead of the 6/7* versions and use them.
Just a thought on the restricted champion challenges and the required rank up mats needed to comfortably take on these new quests. To include the other 99% of us, I know this might be a bit far fetched but can something like below or similar be an option going forward?
These challenges would be far more appealing to the wider community if the challenges came with the required champs fully maxed at 6*R5a or 7*R3.
You enter the Carina's Challenges tab, select the 'Go Now' tab on KarateMikes 'A Classic Threat' quest. This then takes you straight to the Grandmasters Gauntlet with IM, BW, Hawkeye, Thor and Ant Man already generated within the team slot and all ranked at 6*R5a.
I'm pretty sure many more would be happy to participate, and as we are all not KarateMike, without question Kabam would be getting more than 6 revives KM used out of us for running this challenge.
Wild to me that people are attacking the stick rather than the carrot. If the rewards were worth the effort, the complains would be lower.
It was also mentioned several times yesterday that these challenges were delayed. So it makes me wonder whether the rewards adjusted given the delay (we have had both 8.3 and Necropolis released since the anticipated launch of these challenges). If the anticipated release of these challenges were pre-revive nerf, were they delayed because of the revive nerf? Releasing these challenges after the nerf, after necropolis, and during WOW (when now, after the Abs Man debacle, every assumes they will need all of their revives for WOW) just seems like a perfect storm created by Kabam yet the blame has shifted to the creators.
Name an average Player who can do Necro with Howard the Duck. 😉
If the average player had MSD on call, along with the amount of revives BG farmed, I’m sure they can do it. Your comment lacks context of what happened.
There is context. That's not an average Player feat. The average Player isn't spending hours playing and creating content to farm those. I think it's great that he rose to the challenge, but he does not represent an average Player. He's dedicated a significant portion of his life to the game.
Unless they plan to let us run these on the content creator beta server -- where you get all the rank up materials you could possibly need -- these challenges are objectively terrible. The two from Lags are merely top turds on the compost heap.
Wild to me that people are attacking the stick rather than the carrot. If the rewards were worth the effort, the complains would be lower.
It was also mentioned several times yesterday that these challenges were delayed. So it makes me wonder whether the rewards adjusted given the delay (we have had both 8.3 and Necropolis released since the anticipated launch of these challenges). If the anticipated release of these challenges were pre-revive nerf, were they delayed because of the revive nerf? Releasing these challenges after the nerf, after necropolis, and during WOW (when now, after the Abs Man debacle, every assumes they will need all of their revives for WOW) just seems like a perfect storm created by Kabam yet the blame has shifted to the creators.
Nah it would be worse, at least this way its easy to pass
I read through the whole thread and i feel like i have to say a couple things.
First off i made sure every single fight in the Tigra/JP challenge would be soloable with the right strategy, mastery set up and boosts so calling it a cash grab or unit sink without even stopping to think how you should go about taking each fight is a bit unfair. I do not think doing the challenge itemless is possible due to some guaranteed damage you’ll take in a few fights but having to use potions here and there can hardly be considered a problem.
Now to respond to the comments about the difficulty level; i can’t speak for Lagacy or Karatemike but the difficulty of the challenges i created was 100% intentional and i was well aware the community would not react too kindly to it right off the bat. That said i do not regret the decision and i wouldn’t change it even now after all the comments i have received. The word ”challenge” has gone stale around the very top of the playerbase so i can only hope these will at least remind everyone what that word once meant.
As for how many revives it cost me on the submission runs? Less than your average players Necropolis completion path
I appreciate the effort you put into this, but I would also say the word "challenge" is subjective. What one person considers challenging isn't necessarily the same as what another Player considers challenging. It's a difficult balance to make something a goal that isn't so easily attainable, and only design it for those who are so skilled they're completely bored with the game. The danger in that is most Players will never be at that level of skill, even when they grow into all the content available. Just something to suggest as an outside perspective. The harder you make it, the less inviting it becomes for people to make an effort.
Agreed. I'm honestly put off by his response. "Yeah I intended for it to be only something me and my friends could do ..so what .. I only spent a few revives so it's doable and just git gud. .. we want real challenge who cares about the rest of you." That's basically what he's saying smh.
You point me to a player not on YouTube or in the program who can solo any of these fights with or without the "proper strategy".
Again ... the community isn't saying they hate difficult fights .. it's these kind of fights that lack any kind of imagination at all. Anyone could have come up with fights like this and all you've presented is not fun and pretty ridiculous an ask for anyone not in the top 1%.
How could one creator completely nail what the objective is for the entirety of the game's players and others fall way off the marker.
Listen I've been on both sides of this with Microsoft and the Xbox ... I've designed things for the Xbox community at large and I've been one of its Xbox MVPs that were deemed "levels above" what an average Xbox gamer would be considered. I've been on the "other side" moderating Microsoft's forums too. So I know a thing or two about the gaming community and the pulse of it.
I've created content for a worldwide audience that was enjoyed and not seen as "just for us few". I've collaborated with other MVPs on how to craft something that wasn't just for other MVPs but something the entire community could enjoy without it garnering what is now negative sentiment.
What is important to note though is that Crashed, Jax, Miike are 1000% on the side of the community. I know this because I've been there. It's hard to not have things go sideways whenever a community face gets involved to either clarify things or simply give an honest response. They have a TOUGH job. I've done it ... I know.
But they are, like I said, on our side if not 1000% at least 999.7% of the time. So I just wanted to point out that I appreciate the willingness to be a part of this conversation. You all might not understand what it takes to even press send on responses. That in and of itself is big for anyone that's part of the community facing team at Kabam.
I say all this just to point out what my own concerns are and that they are not an attack on anyone. I'm just speaking on what my experience has been in these situations. When the community feels that one group is "having its way" more so than another .. it brings a different level of frustration. You need only look at the disparity of content that I mentioned to understand what I mean.
You challenging a player is different than you wondering “is this possible?”. The majority of players will not choose to go in with ducks only. Virtually, anything can be done in the game with enough units and resources (which you can buy with units). The way quest content is created lately, its been a question of “how many resources will you use?” And I’d like to know why that philosophy is so prevalent
Your question is based on a false premise. By basically any measure content in the game has become less resource intensive for players over time. Story content is much, much less resource intensive than it used to be. Alliance War is much less resource intensive for average players than it used to be since we made revives free. I wasn't around when Abyss was released, but based on what I have heard and data I have seen, Necropolis is less resource intensive than Abyss was when it was released.
So if by "lately" you mean the last week, then sure, the game is more resource intensive than it was in January when there was nothing to do. But if anything our the game has moved in the other directions over time and that's pretty evident both anecdotally and based on the data we have.
One thing we wanted to do this year was release much more content so players always have something to do. Some of it is going to be hard, some of it is going to be easier. It just happens that a couple of the hardest pieces lined up in the schedule. We decided to move forward with the schedule since one of them is permanent and can be done whenever players are ready.
At any rate right now I personally am focused on making sure players have tons of content to do and both short and long-term goals to achieve. There is much, much more coming, most of which won't be this hard.
Your statement is almost 100% false and filled with zero evidence of what you’re saying. The game and your companies statements are completely different, but, since you’re specifically calling lately since January.. ok I’ll play along
Since January Necropolis pay to die and get rewarded jan15 How is this not about cash? There was an event specifically meant to pay out dying and spending on non-farmable revives(see below)
Removed farming for revives less than 2 weeks before necropolis pay out ( because time invested to obtain these is now valueless as the life and time of the ftp player isn’t good enough to obtain these resources)
Added raids. Game mode where you automatically die if you’re too skilled for a single run.
Aw tactic people above p2 know all about this. Passive ai can guarantee that you lose your steadfast. Increasing the amount of necessary spending in aw.
Ccp carina “challenges” has 2 parts to its multifaceted money grabbing design including an ingenious added monetary mechanism. Revives and heals. Forced rank ups with specific champs and releasing limited time offers to buy these ranks ups. While including specific champs in RNG packages (so people spending can’t even be assured they get the only champs they can use).
WoW not only does this require heals or at minimum revives. It also requires specific rank ups of champs. But it doesn’t stop there… now players have to spend 10 energy for every attempt they make. And, while this may not use all the refills they have, the genius lies in the effect of this to the rest of their game. No longer will people have piles in their stash so they can make quality of life choices by smashing through content. Now when they try to complete content they’ll also have to use units on energy since monthly quests were basically free. I’m sure that didn’t sit right with the company. How can you have any content that’s simply just to play
Every decision by any company is about the company and its profit. That’s just a fact. And Kabam specifically makes content decisions based on players resources used in an effort to increase spending. Spenders weren’t farming because they can afford to not waste their time Ftp can’t afford to buy or don’t see the point. So they weren’t buying and still aren’t. The removal of this way to obtain valuable game resources did nothing but hurt the players that needed it and play your game for the love of it.
I’d love a real reply or rebuttal that proves any of this wrong. Players are not this naive and we understand the economics of our world. I’d gladly play the free content that helps a valiant player with 61 7*, 3 rank 3 and only 19 missing 6* champs… please tell me the ftp content that’s highly beneficial for my account
Carina's Challenges intention is to give 1% top players something to do that requires all the skill and resources they dont have to use on other content.
The fact that we got some that would include "everybody" doesnt make it is the main intention of them.
This content is not supposed to be achievable by most of us, this is not meant to be hard skill wise, but not doable without spending resources.
Why you guys acting suddenly like this MUST be like you want it to be?
The same way nobody gets mad because Celestial in BGs is not achievable by everybody, we shouldnt get mad because is isnt either, because thats the intention behind this content.
Carina's Challenges intention is to give 1% top players something to do that requires all the skill and resources they dont have to use on other content.
The fact that we got some that would include "everybody" doesnt make it is the main intention of them.
This content is not supposed to be achievable by most of us, this is not meant to be hard skill wise, but not doable without spending resources.
Why you guys acting suddenly like this MUST be like you want it to be?
The same way nobody gets mad because Celestial in BGs is not achievable by everybody, we shouldnt get mad because is isnt either, because thats the intention behind this content.
I don’t think you realize how many people are actually valiant players. I don’t think you realize how many people actually had to complete necropolis for 11 million deaths to occur..
It’s not some super select group. The top 500 or 1000 alliances are filled with valiant players. They may not all be valiant, but valiant players aren’t only in top 100
Comments
It definitely is an elitist objective and the closest thing we’ve seen to content like the 4* Labyrinth of Legends where you had to spam revives.
I feel like its not just Fintech that the “feedback” should be targeted to , but rather Kabam should have some form of Quality Control in which stuff like this gets thoroughly reviewed prior to its approval.
Just because Fintech soloed each fight should not be the parameter to look for, because this is taking challenging content to , like the post said, an Elitist perspective.
I strongly urge Kabam to look into Quality Control suggestion, or improve it if they already have one.
Releasing this right after the chaos that was brewed from the Winter of Woe Abs fight will only make players fear what content lies ahead and cause players to play and spend less.
Best part of it really is that it is optional, so I might do most of it in the future when it doesn't cost so much relatively. Then again I said that about exploring Abyss - still haven't lol. FOMO is the key thing here and there's not much to miss out on right now.
But I hope you don't underestimate the negative impact that things have on the health of your players. Having top players like KM testing content and gauging difficulty of content is taking you away from the reality of 99.9% of the players base. My suggestion for you would be to include in your beta program not only content creators and pro players but also normal players at different progression levels, gauge content for different personas.
This said, speaking about the new Carina's challenges, I honestly don't believe the rewards justify the level of difficulty (and zero fun) presented by KM and FT. We realized they're completely out-of-touch with the community.
1.) I think it’s amazing and well thought out that the team gave us 5star Starky to even attempt the first 2 challenges. Clearly these were tuned to be fun and attainable challenges for the whole community. I also applaud the team on the 6star selectors, that’s another pro-player move to help us all participate in the challenges. I feel this has been overlooked reading the other feedback but we should acknowledge well thought out positive elements too.
2.) With the thoughts that went into champ attainment it’s frustrating that rank up materials were not also considered and are left out of the rewards. This is a top tier resource ask at this time. Yes, it’s permanent content… but that really doesn’t mean the rewards are permanently relevant. This was a BIG miss.
3.) Clearly these challenges were designed to have difficulty tiers. Lagacy, KarateMike, and Fintech put themselves out on a limb and were given 0 proactive protection from Kabam. I don’t understand that at all and it definitely wasn’t fair or considerate to them. Lags is getting loads of love for being asked to help with the entry difficulty while Fin gets hate for helping with the top tier difficulty. These challenges were not created to be equal and instead of slapping a CCP members name next to it as a shield for Kabam, Kabam should have listed difficulty levels next to these to protect the CCP members and should have told us this before release. I don’t think this was well thought out as I’m describing the resulting perception and not the intent here. It’s gonna make future partnerships with others harder to do if you leave team favorites out to dry like this.
4.) I think the announcement and release timing of these challenges was very very poorly managed. To put this out now wasn’t well thought out. These challenges should have been issued last month while revive farming was still live in those spots. The team allowed it for Necropolis and these are not Necropolis tier rewards. You even had fun with the bottomless rewards by issuing the Ducks challenge. We all had fun, the game got positive publicity as a crazy man did the crazy thing. Fin’s challenge difficulty isn’t too far removed from that challenge in terms of what it will cost most that attempt and complete it, it would have made these at least more fun. Plus the community would’ve been more mad about Bullseye and wouldn’t know the Woe that’s WoW Abs Man. Releasing these now was poorly considered.
As for what could be done to earn a little good will back? Maybe a special event apothecary to help the community earn revives at a slightly increased rate would be nice, another idea would be to buff the rewards to include 6star rank up gems for 3-4 and 4-5 rank ups. At least offset that cost and maybe that will help the medicine go down smoother here.
Also he had access to revive farming, I'm sure a lot of people could do it with a similar amount of revives, if they wanted to ofc
Ill just show the pros and cons of this Carina's Challenges:
Pros:
1. Permanent content.
2. Something to do when you reach the absolute end-game and you have nothing else to do.
3. You can use the revives that would expire otherwise (if this is the case)
Cons:
1. The rewards are not the best one at least for the last challenge (Fintech's one), since you would have to spend more value in resources that you get by doing this challenge. (At least for me, the 7* are nice but I dont think I would personally spend that much just to get those specific champs as 7*).
2. Half of them are skill based, and the other half are just a resource trash can to throw revives till you get past that point.
3. Half of them are "enjoyable", the other half aint enjoyable at all.
I mean, those are Carina's Challenges after all, those aint for everybody, they must not be for everybody, I think community lost the main meaning of the Carina's Challenge, those are meant to be done with a lot of revives, those are meant to be done for the people that has nothing else to do or has nothing else to spend his resources on.
The fact that we got some achievable ones like the Guillotine's or the Act 7 content, it does not mean that this kind of challenges should be the ones we get each time they release a Carina's Challenge.
We have to spend the revives on Winter of Woe right now, since it is the only content that is not permanent, after that the main thing would be spending the revives on Necropolis till Exploration, and just after that, we can start to think about doing the Miikes and Fintechs challenges with all the resources we have that we are not using, but only if you really want to do them, if not, just let them wait till you are able, capable, or you just want to do them.
I dont think this is a L for Kabam, and I dont think we should see this as end-game content like we see Necro or Abyss, this is supposed to be looked at like we looked at the first Carina's Challenges, not that fun, not that easy, not doable without a decent amount of revives. And we must not blame those Content Creators that had the idea of the challenge itself, since thats what they were asked to do.
I dont think I have anything else to say, just stop getting mad by things that are not made the way you want them to be made, but the way Kabam wants it to be done.
If you dont wanna do this content, dont do it, you wont be losing anything that you absolutely need, those are just "regular" rewards, some 7* Shards, a couple emotes, a couple titles, and some temporal trophy champs as 7* which are not a must at all.
The other challenges tho? Come on...
It's actually funny how Lagacy's and the others' challenges hold the same individual rewards
If any decent amount of resources (rankup mats) were available to go along with these massive resource dump challenges, many people would be happy to take the challanges head on including me.
Rewards as a ' rare champion' do not match the resources that needed to be dumped on 6 challanges.
It's pointless at this point to argue against this repeating Zemo agenda.
From a principle standpoint, I personally don't mind og Avengers, tigra jabari or mojo.
It is incredibly difficult, but it is quite easy to be ignored.
do a lagacy challenge for the KG piece and ignore the rest until you have overflowing revives/ these champs at high 7* level. thats what i'm gonna do.
Nobody said you can't use 5* champs.
These challenges would be far more appealing to the wider community if the challenges came with the required champs fully maxed at 6*R5a or 7*R3.
You enter the Carina's Challenges tab, select the 'Go Now' tab on KarateMikes 'A Classic Threat' quest. This then takes you straight to the Grandmasters Gauntlet with IM, BW, Hawkeye, Thor and Ant Man already generated within the team slot and all ranked at 6*R5a.
I'm pretty sure many more would be happy to participate, and as we are all not KarateMike, without question Kabam would be getting more than 6 revives KM used out of us for running this challenge.
It was also mentioned several times yesterday that these challenges were delayed. So it makes me wonder whether the rewards adjusted given the delay (we have had both 8.3 and Necropolis released since the anticipated launch of these challenges). If the anticipated release of these challenges were pre-revive nerf, were they delayed because of the revive nerf? Releasing these challenges after the nerf, after necropolis, and during WOW (when now, after the Abs Man debacle, every assumes they will need all of their revives for WOW) just seems like a perfect storm created by Kabam yet the blame has shifted to the creators.
You point me to a player not on YouTube or in the program who can solo any of these fights with or without the "proper strategy".
Again ... the community isn't saying they hate difficult fights .. it's these kind of fights that lack any kind of imagination at all. Anyone could have come up with fights like this and all you've presented is not fun and pretty ridiculous an ask for anyone not in the top 1%.
How could one creator completely nail what the objective is for the entirety of the game's players and others fall way off the marker.
I've created content for a worldwide audience that was enjoyed and not seen as "just for us few". I've collaborated with other MVPs on how to craft something that wasn't just for other MVPs but something the entire community could enjoy without it garnering what is now negative sentiment.
What is important to note though is that Crashed, Jax, Miike are 1000% on the side of the community. I know this because I've been there. It's hard to not have things go sideways whenever a community face gets involved to either clarify things or simply give an honest response. They have a TOUGH job. I've done it ... I know.
But they are, like I said, on our side if not 1000% at least 999.7% of the time. So I just wanted to point out that I appreciate the willingness to be a part of this conversation. You all might not understand what it takes to even press send on responses. That in and of itself is big for anyone that's part of the community facing team at Kabam.
I say all this just to point out what my own concerns are and that they are not an attack on anyone. I'm just speaking on what my experience has been in these situations. When the community feels that one group is "having its way" more so than another .. it brings a different level of frustration. You need only look at the disparity of content that I mentioned to understand what I mean.
Since January
Necropolis pay to die and get rewarded jan15
How is this not about cash? There was an event specifically meant to pay out dying and spending on non-farmable revives(see below)
Removed farming for revives less than 2 weeks before necropolis pay out ( because time invested to obtain these is now valueless as the life and time of the ftp player isn’t good enough to obtain these resources)
Added raids. Game mode where you automatically die if you’re too skilled for a single run.
Aw tactic people above p2 know all about this. Passive ai can guarantee that you lose your steadfast. Increasing the amount of necessary spending in aw.
Ccp carina “challenges” has 2 parts to its multifaceted money grabbing design including an ingenious added monetary mechanism. Revives and heals.
Forced rank ups with specific champs and releasing limited time offers to buy these ranks ups. While including specific champs in RNG packages (so people spending can’t even be assured they get the only champs they can use).
WoW not only does this require heals or at minimum revives. It also requires specific rank ups of champs. But it doesn’t stop there… now players have to spend 10 energy for every attempt they make. And, while this may not use all the refills they have, the genius lies in the effect of this to the rest of their game. No longer will people have piles in their stash so they can make quality of life choices by smashing through content. Now when they try to complete content they’ll also have to use units on energy since monthly quests were basically free. I’m sure that didn’t sit right with the company. How can you have any content that’s simply just to play
Every decision by any company is about the company and its profit. That’s just a fact.
And Kabam specifically makes content decisions based on players resources used in an effort to increase spending.
Spenders weren’t farming because they can afford to not waste their time
Ftp can’t afford to buy or don’t see the point. So they weren’t buying and still aren’t.
The removal of this way to obtain valuable game resources did nothing but hurt the players that needed it and play your game for the love of it.
I’d love a real reply or rebuttal that proves any of this wrong. Players are not this naive and we understand the economics of our world. I’d gladly play the free content that helps a valiant player with 61 7*, 3 rank 3 and only 19 missing 6* champs… please tell me the ftp content that’s highly beneficial for my account
The fact that we got some that would include "everybody" doesnt make it is the main intention of them.
This content is not supposed to be achievable by most of us, this is not meant to be hard skill wise, but not doable without spending resources.
Why you guys acting suddenly like this MUST be like you want it to be?
The same way nobody gets mad because Celestial in BGs is not achievable by everybody, we shouldnt get mad because is isnt either, because thats the intention behind this content.
It’s not some super select group. The top 500 or 1000 alliances are filled with valiant players. They may not all be valiant, but valiant players aren’t only in top 100