New Carrina's challenges thoughts?

Rayven5220 · February 16

Motorola said:
I would have loved the same difficulty with having to rank up 8 (5stars) to max, instead of having to rank up 8 (6 or 7 stars) and use sooooo many end game resources on irrelevant champs that you will never use again. When you are a valiant player who is trying to keep up with the other valiant/paragon players (especially in Battlegrounds), we have to choose our rank ups very carefully. Ranking up black widow/antman/thor/hawkeye/jabari panther/mojo really hurts our accounts. Tigra/ironman/zemo are the only champs that are easier to spend the rank up resources on. This is why Lagacys challenge was GENIUS, even if it was exactly the same difficulty as Fintechs and Karate Mikes, players would NOT mind it as much because maxing out 8 5stars is reasonable for some side/OPTIONAL challenges, and we wouldn't feel like we are taking away from our end game/battlegrounds rosters (top 30 champs) so much (except for gold and ISO of course).

So rank up your 5* versions instead of the 6/7* versions and use them.

Nobody said you can't use 5* champs.

Stantona · February 16

Just a thought on the restricted champion challenges and the required rank up mats needed to comfortably take on these new quests. To include the other 99% of us, I know this might be a bit far fetched but can something like below or similar be an option going forward?

These challenges would be far more appealing to the wider community if the challenges came with the required champs fully maxed at 6*R5a or 7*R3.

You enter the Carina's Challenges tab, select the 'Go Now' tab on KarateMikes 'A Classic Threat' quest. This then takes you straight to the Grandmasters Gauntlet with IM, BW, Hawkeye, Thor and Ant Man already generated within the team slot and all ranked at 6*R5a.

I'm pretty sure many more would be happy to participate, and as we are all not KarateMike, without question Kabam would be getting more than 6 revives KM used out of us for running this challenge.

Raganator · February 16

Wild to me that people are attacking the stick rather than the carrot. If the rewards were worth the effort, the complains would be lower.

It was also mentioned several times yesterday that these challenges were delayed. So it makes me wonder whether the rewards adjusted given the delay (we have had both 8.3 and Necropolis released since the anticipated launch of these challenges). If the anticipated release of these challenges were pre-revive nerf, were they delayed because of the revive nerf? Releasing these challenges after the nerf, after necropolis, and during WOW (when now, after the Abs Man debacle, every assumes they will need all of their revives for WOW) just seems like a perfect storm created by Kabam yet the blame has shifted to the creators.

GroundedWisdom · February 16

Siliyo said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Name an average Player who can do Necro with Howard the Duck. 😉
If the average player had MSD on call, along with the amount of revives BG farmed, I’m sure they can do it. Your comment lacks context of what happened.

There is context. That's not an average Player feat. The average Player isn't spending hours playing and creating content to farm those. I think it's great that he rose to the challenge, but he does not represent an average Player. He's dedicated a significant portion of his life to the game.

phiguy721 · February 16

Unless they plan to let us run these on the content creator beta server -- where you get all the rank up materials you could possibly need -- these challenges are objectively terrible. The two from Lags are merely top turds on the compost heap.

BringPopcorn · February 16

Raganator said:
Wild to me that people are attacking the stick rather than the carrot. If the rewards were worth the effort, the complains would be lower.

It was also mentioned several times yesterday that these challenges were delayed. So it makes me wonder whether the rewards adjusted given the delay (we have had both 8.3 and Necropolis released since the anticipated launch of these challenges). If the anticipated release of these challenges were pre-revive nerf, were they delayed because of the revive nerf? Releasing these challenges after the nerf, after necropolis, and during WOW (when now, after the Abs Man debacle, every assumes they will need all of their revives for WOW) just seems like a perfect storm created by Kabam yet the blame has shifted to the creators.

Nah it would be worse, at least this way its easy to pass

Deacon · February 16

GroundedWisdom said:

Fintech said:
I read through the whole thread and i feel like i have to say a couple things.

First off i made sure every single fight in the Tigra/JP challenge would be soloable with the right strategy, mastery set up and boosts so calling it a cash grab or unit sink without even stopping to think how you should go about taking each fight is a bit unfair. I do not think doing the challenge itemless is possible due to some guaranteed damage you’ll take in a few fights but having to use potions here and there can hardly be considered a problem.

Now to respond to the comments about the difficulty level; i can’t speak for Lagacy or Karatemike but the difficulty of the challenges i created was 100% intentional and i was well aware the community would not react too kindly to it right off the bat. That said i do not regret the decision and i wouldn’t change it even now after all the comments i have received. The word ”challenge” has gone stale around the very top of the playerbase so i can only hope these will at least remind everyone what that word once meant.

As for how many revives it cost me on the submission runs? Less than your average players Necropolis completion path
I appreciate the effort you put into this, but I would also say the word "challenge" is subjective. What one person considers challenging isn't necessarily the same as what another Player considers challenging. It's a difficult balance to make something a goal that isn't so easily attainable, and only design it for those who are so skilled they're completely bored with the game. The danger in that is most Players will never be at that level of skill, even when they grow into all the content available. Just something to suggest as an outside perspective. The harder you make it, the less inviting it becomes for people to make an effort.

Agreed. I'm honestly put off by his response. "Yeah I intended for it to be only something me and my friends could do ..so what .. I only spent a few revives so it's doable and just git gud. .. we want real challenge who cares about the rest of you." That's basically what he's saying smh.

You point me to a player not on YouTube or in the program who can solo any of these fights with or without the "proper strategy".

Again ... the community isn't saying they hate difficult fights .. it's these kind of fights that lack any kind of imagination at all. Anyone could have come up with fights like this and all you've presented is not fun and pretty ridiculous an ask for anyone not in the top 1%.

How could one creator completely nail what the objective is for the entirety of the game's players and others fall way off the marker.

Deacon · February 16

Listen I've been on both sides of this with Microsoft and the Xbox ... I've designed things for the Xbox community at large and I've been one of its Xbox MVPs that were deemed "levels above" what an average Xbox gamer would be considered. I've been on the "other side" moderating Microsoft's forums too. So I know a thing or two about the gaming community and the pulse of it.

I've created content for a worldwide audience that was enjoyed and not seen as "just for us few". I've collaborated with other MVPs on how to craft something that wasn't just for other MVPs but something the entire community could enjoy without it garnering what is now negative sentiment.

What is important to note though is that Crashed, Jax, Miike are 1000% on the side of the community. I know this because I've been there. It's hard to not have things go sideways whenever a community face gets involved to either clarify things or simply give an honest response. They have a TOUGH job. I've done it ... I know.

But they are, like I said, on our side if not 1000% at least 999.7% of the time. So I just wanted to point out that I appreciate the willingness to be a part of this conversation. You all might not understand what it takes to even press send on responses. That in and of itself is big for anyone that's part of the community facing team at Kabam.

I say all this just to point out what my own concerns are and that they are not an attack on anyone. I'm just speaking on what my experience has been in these situations. When the community feels that one group is "having its way" more so than another .. it brings a different level of frustration. You need only look at the disparity of content that I mentioned to understand what I mean.

CoMinow · February 16

Kabam Crashed said:

Siliyo said:

You challenging a player is different than you wondering “is this possible?”. The majority of players will not choose to go in with ducks only. Virtually, anything can be done in the game with enough units and resources (which you can buy with units). The way quest content is created lately, its been a question of “how many resources will you use?” And I’d like to know why that philosophy is so prevalent
Your question is based on a false premise. By basically any measure content in the game has become less resource intensive for players over time. Story content is much, much less resource intensive than it used to be. Alliance War is much less resource intensive for average players than it used to be since we made revives free. I wasn't around when Abyss was released, but based on what I have heard and data I have seen, Necropolis is less resource intensive than Abyss was when it was released.

So if by "lately" you mean the last week, then sure, the game is more resource intensive than it was in January when there was nothing to do. But if anything our the game has moved in the other directions over time and that's pretty evident both anecdotally and based on the data we have.

One thing we wanted to do this year was release much more content so players always have something to do. Some of it is going to be hard, some of it is going to be easier. It just happens that a couple of the hardest pieces lined up in the schedule. We decided to move forward with the schedule since one of them is permanent and can be done whenever players are ready.

At any rate right now I personally am focused on making sure players have tons of content to do and both short and long-term goals to achieve. There is much, much more coming, most of which won't be this hard.

Your statement is almost 100% false and filled with zero evidence of what you’re saying. The game and your companies statements are completely different, but, since you’re specifically calling lately since January.. ok I’ll play along

Since January
Necropolis pay to die and get rewarded jan15
How is this not about cash? There was an event specifically meant to pay out dying and spending on non-farmable revives(see below)

Removed farming for revives less than 2 weeks before necropolis pay out ( because time invested to obtain these is now valueless as the life and time of the ftp player isn’t good enough to obtain these resources)

Added raids. Game mode where you automatically die if you’re too skilled for a single run.

Aw tactic people above p2 know all about this. Passive ai can guarantee that you lose your steadfast. Increasing the amount of necessary spending in aw.

Ccp carina “challenges” has 2 parts to its multifaceted money grabbing design including an ingenious added monetary mechanism. Revives and heals.
Forced rank ups with specific champs and releasing limited time offers to buy these ranks ups. While including specific champs in RNG packages (so people spending can’t even be assured they get the only champs they can use).

WoW not only does this require heals or at minimum revives. It also requires specific rank ups of champs. But it doesn’t stop there… now players have to spend 10 energy for every attempt they make. And, while this may not use all the refills they have, the genius lies in the effect of this to the rest of their game. No longer will people have piles in their stash so they can make quality of life choices by smashing through content. Now when they try to complete content they’ll also have to use units on energy since monthly quests were basically free. I’m sure that didn’t sit right with the company. How can you have any content that’s simply just to play

Every decision by any company is about the company and its profit. That’s just a fact.
And Kabam specifically makes content decisions based on players resources used in an effort to increase spending.
Spenders weren’t farming because they can afford to not waste their time
Ftp can’t afford to buy or don’t see the point. So they weren’t buying and still aren’t.
The removal of this way to obtain valuable game resources did nothing but hurt the players that needed it and play your game for the love of it.

I’d love a real reply or rebuttal that proves any of this wrong. Players are not this naive and we understand the economics of our world. I’d gladly play the free content that helps a valiant player with 61 7*, 3 rank 3 and only 19 missing 6* champs… please tell me the ftp content that’s highly beneficial for my account

Jefechuta · February 16

Carina's Challenges intention is to give 1% top players something to do that requires all the skill and resources they dont have to use on other content.

The fact that we got some that would include "everybody" doesnt make it is the main intention of them.

This content is not supposed to be achievable by most of us, this is not meant to be hard skill wise, but not doable without spending resources.

Why you guys acting suddenly like this MUST be like you want it to be?

The same way nobody gets mad because Celestial in BGs is not achievable by everybody, we shouldnt get mad because is isnt either, because thats the intention behind this content.

BeastDad · February 16

When the usual apologists stop defending, you have a real problem on your hands.

CoMinow · February 16

Jefechuta said:
Carina's Challenges intention is to give 1% top players something to do that requires all the skill and resources they dont have to use on other content.

The fact that we got some that would include "everybody" doesnt make it is the main intention of them.

This content is not supposed to be achievable by most of us, this is not meant to be hard skill wise, but not doable without spending resources.

Why you guys acting suddenly like this MUST be like you want it to be?

The same way nobody gets mad because Celestial in BGs is not achievable by everybody, we shouldnt get mad because is isnt either, because thats the intention behind this content.

I don’t think you realize how many people are actually valiant players. I don’t think you realize how many people actually had to complete necropolis for 11 million deaths to occur..

It’s not some super select group. The top 500 or 1000 alliances are filled with valiant players. They may not all be valiant, but valiant players aren’t only in top 100

Heattblastt · February 16

I think there should always be some content in the game which everyone including top 1 % players can say that it is tough and they have to use their revives to complete it. Otherwise the revive resources of these top players will just expire with no where to use and it will be unfair to them.

Also I am sure kabam especially mentioned what difficulty of challenges they want from ccp and they only followed them so no point in blaming ccp. I believe even kabam would have asked lagacy to create not so difficult challenge so everyone can easily get the deathless groot piece.

My biggest problem with these challenges is the cost required (especially iso in my case) to rankup some of these champions. For instance I had 2*, 3*, 4* starky maxed, 6* starky as rank4 but I didn't ranked 5* starky coz I got him after I got 6*. Now I will have to max the only rarity i had not ranked from level 1 rank1 to max. Similarly I have 6* Zemo, Ironman, Black Widow, Thor, Hawkeye,Jabari unranked(The only luck I have is 7* awakened mojo and antman). Now I have to rank them up to 4 or 5 from rank1 with most of them having no future use. Kabam should have at least provided some of the rank up resources including iso, t6bc, and tier3 alpha.

Taiphoon_zero · February 16

gohard123 said:

Taiphoon_zero said:
i don't think that was the thought process. if that would be the case then make Carina challenges available or only Valiant players, cause me with 6 mln roaster and 4 paths completed in Necropolyss, i don't have any of these champs highly ranked up beside the 5 star spidi. do I have to spend all the gold and catalysts on ranking average champions just to get some bad rewards?
If the rewards are bad to you especially considering the cost of ranking “average” champions then don’t do it. It won’t be a detriment to you or your account, that’s the objective essence of these challenges.

Don’t do it? Did I had to specify, obviously I am not gonna do it that’s the whole point of my message

Ironman3000 · February 16

Kabam Crashed said:

Siliyo said:

You challenging a player is different than you wondering “is this possible?”. The majority of players will not choose to go in with ducks only. Virtually, anything can be done in the game with enough units and resources (which you can buy with units). The way quest content is created lately, its been a question of “how many resources will you use?” And I’d like to know why that philosophy is so prevalent
Your question is based on a false premise. By basically any measure content in the game has become less resource intensive for players over time. Story content is much, much less resource intensive than it used to be. Alliance War is much less resource intensive for average players than it used to be since we made revives free. I wasn't around when Abyss was released, but based on what I have heard and data I have seen, Necropolis is less resource intensive than Abyss was when it was released.

So if by "lately" you mean the last week, then sure, the game is more resource intensive than it was in January when there was nothing to do. But if anything our the game has moved in the other directions over time and that's pretty evident both anecdotally and based on the data we have.

One thing we wanted to do this year was release much more content so players always have something to do. Some of it is going to be hard, some of it is going to be easier. It just happens that a couple of the hardest pieces lined up in the schedule. We decided to move forward with the schedule since one of them is permanent and can be done whenever players are ready.

At any rate right now I personally am focused on making sure players have tons of content to do and both short and long-term goals to achieve. There is much, much more coming, most of which won't be this hard.

Challenging content is fine and even resource-intensive content is also fine, as long as the rewards are worth the expense and effort. There is no question that the rewards for this challenge are nowhere near worth the resources and effort.

There should have been champ-specific rank-up gems in the rewards at least.

Elthan · February 16

pseudosane · February 16

BeastDad said:
When the usual apologists stop defending, you have a real problem on your hands.

Would you like a git gud comment?
stop being unreasonable. There are reasons why it is so hard, and you may not be the target audience for this.

Motorola · February 16

Rayven5220 said:

Motorola said:
I would have loved the same difficulty with having to rank up 8 (5stars) to max, instead of having to rank up 8 (6 or 7 stars) and use sooooo many end game resources on irrelevant champs that you will never use again. When you are a valiant player who is trying to keep up with the other valiant/paragon players (especially in Battlegrounds), we have to choose our rank ups very carefully. Ranking up black widow/antman/thor/hawkeye/jabari panther/mojo really hurts our accounts. Tigra/ironman/zemo are the only champs that are easier to spend the rank up resources on. This is why Lagacys challenge was GENIUS, even if it was exactly the same difficulty as Fintechs and Karate Mikes, players would NOT mind it as much because maxing out 8 5stars is reasonable for some side/OPTIONAL challenges, and we wouldn't feel like we are taking away from our end game/battlegrounds rosters (top 30 champs) so much (except for gold and ISO of course).
So rank up your 5* versions instead of the 6/7* versions and use them.

Nobody said you can't use 5* champs.

If you dont know why people would not want to use 5stars for EOP and Gauntlet, then IDK what else to tell you.

Ironman3000 · February 16

Johnnoooooo said:

Kabam Crashed said:

LJF said:
It's sad to see Kabam employees sticking fingers into their ears with these incredibly defensive responses. It's evident from each of Miike, Crashed, and Jax's comments that they aren't interested in feedback from players about these challenges. I was going to come and offer some thoughts on why, as one of those players (arguably) that these challenges were designed for, these challenges miss the mark. But I'm not going to waste time giving constructive criticism to a willfully deaf audience. So good luck I guess, hope you guys are happy with how this all turns out.
This simply isn't true. If I didn't care about player feedback I wouldn't be reading through 200+ post threads at 10pm. I'm not being defensive, I'm simply stating how we see these challenges and their place in the game.

We take feedback seriously and actually earlier today changed the design for an upcoming piece of content based on this feedback. However we aren't just going to roll over and acquiesce to everything that players tell us they want, because quite frankly this game wouldn't still exist if we did that. Our job is to find the right balance for the long-term health of the game, and I promise you that is what we all are trying to do.
The trouble is, the community are starting to see through certain content and things now for what it really is, and put 2&2 together.

NERF revive farming, then begin to release impossible content (not impossible if you spend just a long drawn out. Slog, which then becomes revive spam, and not fun)

Most of The CCP are out of touch, waaaaaay out of touch with 90% of the community. You're talking members of top alliances who gain resources and mats way faster than anyone else and always have their units in the thousands, and they're the ones speaking for us..?? Not all of us have sponsors for huge openings etc they have massive advantages we don't have..

New champs being designed to give huge advantages in bgs and now buyable in bundles of you're valiant?? Talk about rich get richer.. community is getting sick and tired of the p2w gap tbh, dead sick and tired of it, and this has topped it

Mike and Fin also knew these were coming and were able to make the proper rank-up decisions. Their defense would have been much better received if they spent the first 15 min of their streams ranking all those trash camps from R1 to R4 or R5.

Cdjcdkj · February 16

Rewards aren't worth the effort if there were rank gems for every champion needed or/and r3 gems

danielmath · February 16

This will be the 1st content in the history of mcoc that i will be skipping (except for the sparky stuff to get the KG piece). Last content i didn't do was the Coulson challenge ,i tried but couldn't do it. That was 8 years ago

Elthan · February 16

And I was there thinking that in capitalism every company's goal was to thrive and expand... I would have never thought that some companies goal was to shrink to 1% of their customer base

Nacho98 · February 16

My main question is who greenlit Fintech’s challenge? I truly believe no one working at Kabam went through it without hundereds of revives and completed it. Did they just let one of the best players in the world design it and go “yup! Looks good!” ??

I’m a paragon player but have completed Necro, soloed WoW and have all of Act 8 explored. I understand this is for “end game” players but like… how much more end game does it get than completing all other pieces of content? I guess “end game” just means having a credit card like DamnEpicWhale or USAFA lol.

ReignkingTW · February 16

I think I know why the community is so upset.

We didn't get a challenge from Prof Hoff.

GroundedWisdom · February 16

ReignkingTW said:
I think I know why the community is so upset.

We didn't get a challenge from Prof Hoff.

It would probably be based on content that doesn't exist.

Raganator · February 16

danielmath said:
This will be the 1st content in the history of mcoc that i will be skipping (except for the sparky stuff to get the KG piece). Last content i didn't do was the Coulson challenge ,i tried but couldn't do it. That was 8 years ago

Exact same. Didn't have a 4* BW at the time, couldn't get it done.

Lovejoy72 · February 16

Cdjcdkj said:
Rewards aren't worth the effort if there were rank gems for every champion needed or/and r3 gems

If that was included, then folks would feel compelled to do this content to keep up. How is that better? Do you think the complaints would be less??

BeastDad · February 16

pseudosane said:

BeastDad said:
When the usual apologists stop defending, you have a real problem on your hands.
Would you like a git gud comment?
stop being unreasonable. There are reasons why it is so hard, and you may not be the target audience for this.

Well at least we finally found one.

Jefechuta · February 16

Next time Kabam should be more specific and say:

"We dont want you guys to do this Challenge the same way you do the rest of the monthly content, this is a little amount of people to be done, the ones that have nothing else to do with their resources"

So we dont have this senseless discussions of people that have nothing to do with this challenge; its like getting angry with Audi because they release an Audi A8 thats not possible to be bought for everybody, dude, you have a big bunch of Audis that are easier to buy, an A8 is not meant to be bought for everyone, this is the exact same, you want an Audi but you are not rich? Buy an Audi A4.

My advice for Kabam is to ignore comments about how this content shouldnt be this way if its intended to be this way.

I mean, it is not even new content, its just an additional objective, the same way nobody complained about having to do Abyss with 4*, nobody should be complaining about how hard this new Carina's challenges are.

Its amazing how spoiled the forums community is sometimes, god damn.

Charlie21540 · February 16

Honestly glad I stopped spending months ago. It's going to make walking away from this game all the more easier. WOW is a huge miss and this stacking on top of it, really has me thinking.

New Carrina's challenges thoughts?

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