They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
Just for fun, I'll be more specific about why I'm not a big fan of Enchantress from a game design perspective.
* As a defender, you have to play her game regardless of which champion you bring. We spend time learning our favorite champions and optimizing their rotations. Obviously, most champions have bad matchups, but in most cases, we get to play those champs to optimize their own potential. For Enchantress, the attacker's abilities practically don't matter. Instead, all attackers have a singular mission: intercept her, punish her heavy, and knock her down before she throws that killer damage-reflecting SP1. I don't mind defenders that force you to modify your game loop, but a defender champ that completely throws your game loop out the window and forces you into their own regardless of your attacker isn't fun in my opinion. Bosses are fun specifically because they do this - but they are also very rare battles, intended specifically to change things up for players. I think we're all going to get sick of fighting Enchantress pretty quickly, but we'll be stuck with her in every pvp game mode anyway.
* Her damage prevention/reflection scales with the opponent, not with her, and it is unlimited/uncapped. This means a one-star enchantress could take down a 7-star opponent if she has 5+ spells up. (I'm sure this is the reason they only allow this to apply when she's a defender.) No other champion has such unlimited opponent-based damage potential. For other champs, they either take the damage themselves, like Electro, or they have a cap, like America.
* For people who do grow accustomed to using her, she's going to elbow out many other champs with all her available utility. I suspect we're going to have a growing set of "Enchantress players" that just use Enchantress as much as possible for all of their content, not bothering to learn or grow a roster of other champions. I don't think that will be good for the growth of the game. She'll become the next Hercules.
To be clear, I don't think Enchantress "breaks the game" or anything like that. I just don't like her design.
* As a defender, you have to play her game regardless of which champion you bring. We spend time learning our favorite champions and optimizing their rotations. Obviously, most champions have bad matchups, but in most cases, we get to play those champs to optimize their own potential. For Enchantress, the attacker's abilities practically don't matter. Instead, all attackers have a singular mission: intercept her, punish her heavy, and knock her down before she throws that killer damage-reflecting SP1.
I don't mind defenders that force you to modify your game loop, but a defender champ that completely throws your game loop out the window and forces you into their own regardless of your attacker isn't fun in my opinion. Bosses are fun specifically because they do this - but they are also very rare battles, intended specifically to change things up for players. I think we're all going to get sick of fighting Enchantress pretty quickly, but we'll be stuck with her in every pvp game mode anyway.
This is the kicker for me. As you say: with Enchantress, you're forced to play her game, instead of your own; which is bad enough... But so many nodes also force you to play the nodes.
What happens when you can't do both?
Very few champs will be even partially good options once when she's on a node like Heavy-Hitter, so that it's physically impossible to punish her Heavy attacks without a Slow; or Mighty Charge-2 (Unstoppable and debuff-immune on dash attacks), or one of the many nodes that punishes you for knocking an opponent down...
They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?
Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?
Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?
Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
Well if u watched my vid she doesnt timeout
The one where you use a r3 with class advantage and still took nearly 10 minutes? How on Earth is that not meh? Lol
They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?
Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
Well if u watched my vid she doesnt timeout
The one where you use a r3 with class advantage and still took nearly 10 minutes?
But after ramp as i said after ramp its 2 mins to take down
They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?
Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
Well if u watched my vid she doesnt timeout
The one where you use a r3 with class advantage and still took nearly 10 minutes?
But after ramp as i said after ramp its 2 mins to take down
So you have to play for 7 minutes (more than half the fight) dealing mediocre damage to start dealing big damage? Even Shuri ramps faster than that for basically the same damage output through dot. Let me rephrase what I said then, she has meh damage during 75% of the fight not all of it, however she's still too slow and I will not be using her. If you like the character fair enough, that's not going to change the fact that she is objectively slow even though long form content is supposed to be her forte.
They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?
Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
Well if u watched my vid she doesnt timeout
The one where you use a r3 with class advantage and still took nearly 10 minutes?
But after ramp as i said after ramp its 2 mins to take down
So you have to play for 7 minutes (more than half the fight) dealing mediocre damage to start dealing big damage? Even Shuri ramps faster than that for basically the same damage output through dot. Let me rephrase what I said then, she has meh damage during 75% of the fight not all of it, however she's still too slow and I will not be using her. If you like the character fair enough, that's not going to change the fact that she is objectively slow even though long form content is supposed to be her forte.
As grass said though if u don't like her don't play her but i for one really love playing her especially going in just taking down odin since all her strength is about long fights so even past necro we will see but her design intent is something it seems u dont care about but maybe those that do need a certain necro lane done she can do since haste removes the reverse controls.
They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?
Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
Well if u watched my vid she doesnt timeout
The one where you use a r3 with class advantage and still took nearly 10 minutes?
But after ramp as i said after ramp its 2 mins to take down
So you have to play for 7 minutes (more than half the fight) dealing mediocre damage to start dealing big damage? Even Shuri ramps faster than that for basically the same damage output through dot. Let me rephrase what I said then, she has meh damage during 75% of the fight not all of it, however she's still too slow and I will not be using her. If you like the character fair enough, that's not going to change the fact that she is objectively slow even though long form content is supposed to be her forte.
As grass said though if u don't like her don't play her but i for one really love playing her especially going in just taking down odin since all her strength is about long fights so even past necro we will see but her design intent is something it seems u dont care about but maybe those that do need a certain necro lane done she can do since haste removes the reverse controls.
That's what I said I'm not going to use her, however I am going to voice my thoughts because contrary to what you think I do care about design but I also care about damage and I'm sick of the slow champs this year already lol.
Even if I hadn't already 100% Necropolis I still wouldn't use her because she's extremely slow as seen I your video. I'd still use any of the other 10 options I have on my roster for any other lanes.
After fighting her multiple times myself (both SQ and BGs) I have to agree with him to be honest. Without nodes that make it hard to intercept her or punish her heavy, she's really not that hard especially with a strong science nuke. I've done it with Silk, Torch, OG Spidey and Titania so far and it's so easy you literally bait the first two sp1s remove all spells before every sp1 and she's just dead. I think people will get used to fighting her pretty quickly and her value will just keep going down.
Her damage is PERFECTLY fine honestly especially since she was intended to be a 3/5. The ramp is just so long but worth it considering ALL THE THINGS YOU BENEFIT from it. And the damage itself is GOOD. She's literally the second strongest damage dealer of the year behind BRB lol. I do think she's balanced and was DESIGNED PERFECTLY yes she is slow but her Playstyle is more of a "work now enjoy later" kinda sequence. Throw about 15 sp1's(FOR NECRO TYPE HEALTHPOOLS) and make sure not to die then sit back and spam sp2's while gaining back any health you may have lost while having protection from hits and alot more various utilities. Her damage is more than enough and she is a total utility powerhouse not to mention heal. She's probably the only champion I don't mind the slow time on because you're always on your feet making sure you don't mess up the spells etc and once you ramp it's just get to the Sp2 while having no care in the world. Unfortunately, She won't shine in anything less than a million HP tho but, KABAM DID THEIR BIG ONE WITH THIS CHAMPION and I look forward to getting her as a 7* Considering we got negasonic this year which kabam will most likely justify the trash damage output for "good utility" even tho no one is using her against anything that isn't skill champions it's a good jump. Enchantress has 3x the utility and 5x the damage of negasonic. If kabam keeps this up with the remainder of the 2024 champs I will be very happy. Also we do need fast damage dealers tho enough with the long form content champions please but GREAT JOB WITH ENCHANTRESS
Her damage is PERFECTLY fine honestly especially since she was intended to be a 3/5. The ramp is just so long but worth it considering ALL THE THINGS YOU BENEFIT from it. And the damage itself is GOOD. She's literally the second strongest damage dealer of the year behind BRB lol. I do think she's balanced and was DESIGNED PERFECTLY yes she is slow but her Playstyle is more of a "work now enjoy later" kinda sequence. Throw about 15 sp1's(FOR NECRO TYPE HEALTHPOOLS) and make sure not to die then sit back and spam sp2's while gaining back any health you may have lost while having protection from hits and alot more various utilities. Her damage is more than enough and she is a total utility powerhouse not to mention heal. She's probably the only champion I don't mind the slow time on because you're always on your feet making sure you don't mess up the spells etc and once you ramp it's just get to the Sp2 while having no care in the world. Unfortunately, She won't shine in anything less than a million HP tho but, KABAM DID THEIR BIG ONE WITH THIS CHAMPION and I look forward to getting her as a 7* Considering we got negasonic this year which kabam will most likely justify the trash damage output for "good utility" even tho no one is using her against anything that isn't skill champions it's a good jump. Enchantress has 3x the utility and 5x the damage of negasonic. If kabam keeps this up with the remainder of the 2024 champs I will be very happy. Also we do need fast damage dealers tho enough with the long form content champions please but GREAT JOB WITH ENCHANTRESS
This, perfectly explained. She's a utility champion and we already have our mega damage dealer this year in BRB.
Her damage is PERFECTLY fine honestly especially since she was intended to be a 3/5. The ramp is just so long but worth it considering ALL THE THINGS YOU BENEFIT from it. And the damage itself is GOOD. She's literally the second strongest damage dealer of the year behind BRB lol. I do think she's balanced and was DESIGNED PERFECTLY yes she is slow but her Playstyle is more of a "work now enjoy later" kinda sequence. Throw about 15 sp1's(FOR NECRO TYPE HEALTHPOOLS) and make sure not to die then sit back and spam sp2's while gaining back any health you may have lost while having protection from hits and alot more various utilities. Her damage is more than enough and she is a total utility powerhouse not to mention heal. She's probably the only champion I don't mind the slow time on because you're always on your feet making sure you don't mess up the spells etc and once you ramp it's just get to the Sp2 while having no care in the world. Unfortunately, She won't shine in anything less than a million HP tho but, KABAM DID THEIR BIG ONE WITH THIS CHAMPION and I look forward to getting her as a 7* Considering we got negasonic this year which kabam will most likely justify the trash damage output for "good utility" even tho no one is using her against anything that isn't skill champions it's a good jump. Enchantress has 3x the utility and 5x the damage of negasonic. If kabam keeps this up with the remainder of the 2024 champs I will be very happy. Also we do need fast damage dealers tho enough with the long form content champions please but GREAT JOB WITH ENCHANTRESS
This, perfectly explained. She's a utility champion and we already have our mega damage dealer this year in BRB.
It's not like the rest of the champs this year have been trash and mid right?
Her damage is PERFECTLY fine honestly especially since she was intended to be a 3/5. The ramp is just so long but worth it considering ALL THE THINGS YOU BENEFIT from it. And the damage itself is GOOD. She's literally the second strongest damage dealer of the year behind BRB lol. I do think she's balanced and was DESIGNED PERFECTLY yes she is slow but her Playstyle is more of a "work now enjoy later" kinda sequence. Throw about 15 sp1's(FOR NECRO TYPE HEALTHPOOLS) and make sure not to die then sit back and spam sp2's while gaining back any health you may have lost while having protection from hits and alot more various utilities. Her damage is more than enough and she is a total utility powerhouse not to mention heal. She's probably the only champion I don't mind the slow time on because you're always on your feet making sure you don't mess up the spells etc and once you ramp it's just get to the Sp2 while having no care in the world. Unfortunately, She won't shine in anything less than a million HP tho but, KABAM DID THEIR BIG ONE WITH THIS CHAMPION and I look forward to getting her as a 7* Considering we got negasonic this year which kabam will most likely justify the trash damage output for "good utility" even tho no one is using her against anything that isn't skill champions it's a good jump. Enchantress has 3x the utility and 5x the damage of negasonic. If kabam keeps this up with the remainder of the 2024 champs I will be very happy. Also we do need fast damage dealers tho enough with the long form content champions please but GREAT JOB WITH ENCHANTRESS
She won't shine against anything below 3M-4M* since it takes 5-6 minutes for the full ramp alone. If you're doing anything below 3M you're better off just using Kushala or Chavez they'll finish the fight faster even if it was a 3M hp Serpent.
Her damage is PERFECTLY fine honestly especially since she was intended to be a 3/5. The ramp is just so long but worth it considering ALL THE THINGS YOU BENEFIT from it. And the damage itself is GOOD. She's literally the second strongest damage dealer of the year behind BRB lol. I do think she's balanced and was DESIGNED PERFECTLY yes she is slow but her Playstyle is more of a "work now enjoy later" kinda sequence. Throw about 15 sp1's(FOR NECRO TYPE HEALTHPOOLS) and make sure not to die then sit back and spam sp2's while gaining back any health you may have lost while having protection from hits and alot more various utilities. Her damage is more than enough and she is a total utility powerhouse not to mention heal. She's probably the only champion I don't mind the slow time on because you're always on your feet making sure you don't mess up the spells etc and once you ramp it's just get to the Sp2 while having no care in the world. Unfortunately, She won't shine in anything less than a million HP tho but, KABAM DID THEIR BIG ONE WITH THIS CHAMPION and I look forward to getting her as a 7* Considering we got negasonic this year which kabam will most likely justify the trash damage output for "good utility" even tho no one is using her against anything that isn't skill champions it's a good jump. Enchantress has 3x the utility and 5x the damage of negasonic. If kabam keeps this up with the remainder of the 2024 champs I will be very happy. Also we do need fast damage dealers tho enough with the long form content champions please but GREAT JOB WITH ENCHANTRESS
This, perfectly explained. She's a utility champion and we already have our mega damage dealer this month in BRB.
It's not like the rest of the champs this year have been trash and mid right?
I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.
On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.
On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.
I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).
Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her
They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?
Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
Imagine you're casually grinding apothecary, turned on auto play and kept your phone aside, and when you check after like 15 mins you find your entire team dead. Only enchantress can do it rn and it's too OP. She isn't a touvh defender, It's her design that us really bad for the game.
In essence, Enchantress is like a defense version of Kate Bishop - that SP1 pretty much controls the whole fight and can wreck the opponent.
An easy fix could be to move her Abjurative casting from SP1 to SP2. With nodes, her abilities and uncooperative AI, trying to deactivate her spells within 1 bar of power is not easy. Uncooperative AI is more acceptable if we have 2 bars of power to work with as opposed to needing to get in our counters within 1 bar of power. This would also make avoiding pushing her to 2 bars of power another viable strategy.
That might render her defensive menace to be too small, but at the same time, the way it currently is requires too rigid a playstyle and players have to counter it too often. I know people complain about Serpent as a defender, but the Enchantress feels like having to deal with the Serpent's Death Immunity annoyance (getting KO'd by one SP3) the entire fight (getting KO'd by Enchantress's SP1) as opposed to just facing it once.
She's a long form champion, 100%. Not enough for BGs, definitely a good counter for Snerpent, but still, the ramp time is too much. Long form content, 100%. Necropolis, definitely. She's like Wong in a way. About some 30 sp1 to ramp up completely, and then sp2 spam till you opponent bites the dust. Not suicide-friendly, that's for sure.
On defense, she's sick, but also interesting. She's one of the only champs in the game that have a sort of mini-game to her, removing spells before the sp1. It's a great concept from the Kabam team.
But i feel that's she's too AI and node dependent. There are some nodes that you have to TIME your attacks to bypass, but Enchantress on offense is a game of it's own, so you can't counter those kinda nodes. Like I said, "I need a manual for this shi-".
There's a couple of people who've told me she's like a Mystic mid damage Shang-Chi. You can ramp up for 10 minutes and then deal massive damage. They're kinda right in their own way.
To conclude, I have a feeling @AllisonEdits will have something to say about Mommy Enchantress
After fighting her multiple times myself (both SQ and BGs) I have to agree with him to be honest. Without nodes that make it hard to intercept her or punish her heavy, she's really not that hard especially with a strong science nuke. I've done it with Silk, Torch, OG Spidey and Titania so far and it's so easy you literally bait the first two sp1s remove all spells before every sp1 and she's just dead. I think people will get used to fighting her pretty quickly and her value will just keep going down.
Once people get over the “OMG KABAM MADE HER SO HARD WAAAAH WAAAAH WAAAH! 😭” phase they’re going to realize how simple it is to play against this champion…. Reduce her power gain if you can. Or even stun lock her. Or even do passive damage to her. And just cycle through intercepting and punishing her heavy (that’s assuming you DON’T know how to play as her) realistically the only thing to worry about is her damage reflection.
On offense… I’m starting to get a little annoyed after playing with AND against her at the same time in side quest. I beat the **** out of her and it was largely simple 😒 but why on earth is her abilities as a defender so much different (AND BETTER) than her toolkit as an attacker? Hey… you know who would love to start the quest off with a few random buffs? You know who would benefit a ton from being able to trigger multiple spells at once (SERIOUSLY HOW IS SHE EVEN DOING THAT?) I mean.. come on man! Doing chain lightning AND blizzard at the same time????? Why are you giving me so little to work with as an attacker?
After fighting her multiple times myself (both SQ and BGs) I have to agree with him to be honest. Without nodes that make it hard to intercept her or punish her heavy, she's really not that hard especially with a strong science nuke. I've done it with Silk, Torch, OG Spidey and Titania so far and it's so easy you literally bait the first two sp1s remove all spells before every sp1 and she's just dead. I think people will get used to fighting her pretty quickly and her value will just keep going down.
Once people get over the “OMG KABAM MADE HER SO HARD WAAAAH WAAAAH WAAAH! 😭” phase they’re going to realize how simple it is to play against this champion…. Reduce her power gain if you can. Or even stun lock her. Or even do passive damage to her. And just cycle through intercepting and punishing her heavy (that’s assuming you DON’T know how to play as her) realistically the only thing to worry about is her damage reflection.
On offense… I’m starting to get a little annoyed after playing with AND against her at the same time in side quest. I beat the **** out of her and it was largely simple 😒 but why on earth is her abilities as a defender so much different (AND BETTER) than her toolkit as an attacker? Hey… you know who would love to start the quest off with a few random buffs? You know who would benefit a ton from being able to trigger multiple spells at once (SERIOUSLY HOW IS SHE EVEN DOING THAT?) I mean.. come on man! Doing chain lightning AND blizzard at the same time????? Why are you giving me so little to work with as an attacker?
Ultimately I think that she’s overturned WAY OVERTUNED as an attacker… and do not say that she’s so tough as a defender that her damage has to be bad. I know that many people here will never use her on offense so let me tell you guys something…. Enchantress (ATTACK) and Enchantress (The one that you will die too) Are fundamentally completely different champions…
Between the signature ability, needing to have NINE SPELLS in order to trigger burst damage, having a damage cap on spells being 12 (again… WHY?), and now I also have to see the defender (who can take zero damage while reflecting it all back) instantly come with 3 buffs WHILE being able to trigger multiple buffs at once just sho she can hold onto the facade of being more sophisticated than she really is… putting it plainly. I would like to see Kabam put a blindfold on and snatch off TWO of those defensive abilities and give it to the attacker and maybe throw in a cooldown for the damage reflection (but not the damage reduction)
Just fought EQ enchantress for the first time and that was literally so easy I did not even take advantage of the debilitate(or at least I ignored it cos I was too focused intercepting and allat) I received no burst damage only damage I took was from me missing in the beginning and getting hit. So much easier than the BRB fight How is she a hard defender again??? I do think she'll be a problem with war nodes(HAZARD SHIFTS ETC) but at the same time EVERY GOOD DEFENDER IS so.. why are we complaining?
I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.
On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.
On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.
I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).
Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her
They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?
Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
After fighting her multiple times myself (both SQ and BGs) I have to agree with him to be honest. Without nodes that make it hard to intercept her or punish her heavy, she's really not that hard especially with a strong science nuke. I've done it with Silk, Torch, OG Spidey and Titania so far and it's so easy you literally bait the first two sp1s remove all spells before every sp1 and she's just dead. I think people will get used to fighting her pretty quickly and her value will just keep going down.
Once people get over the “OMG KABAM MADE HER SO HARD WAAAAH WAAAAH WAAAH! 😭” phase they’re going to realize how simple it is to play against this champion…. Reduce her power gain if you can. Or even stun lock her. Or even do passive damage to her. And just cycle through intercepting and punishing her heavy (that’s assuming you DON’T know how to play as her) realistically the only thing to worry about is her damage reflection.
On offense… I’m starting to get a little annoyed after playing with AND against her at the same time in side quest. I beat the **** out of her and it was largely simple 😒 but why on earth is her abilities as a defender so much different (AND BETTER) than her toolkit as an attacker? Hey… you know who would love to start the quest off with a few random buffs? You know who would benefit a ton from being able to trigger multiple spells at once (SERIOUSLY HOW IS SHE EVEN DOING THAT?) I mean.. come on man! Doing chain lightning AND blizzard at the same time????? Why are you giving me so little to work with as an attacker?
Yeah I don't know who had the brilliant idea of making it so she has to spam sp1s for 5-6 minutes just so she can get that great damage output lmao can't say I'm surprised though, this has been the trend for most of the year, good damage but so slow it's boring and just not worth it.
I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.
On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.
On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.
I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).
Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read her spells in the pause menu
I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.
On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.
On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.
I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).
Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her
They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?
Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
At max ramp up her damage is decent, the problem is it takes too long to get there. If she had that damage at about 2 traps instead of 3 it wouldn't be as big of an issue
Comments
* As a defender, you have to play her game regardless of which champion you bring. We spend time learning our favorite champions and optimizing their rotations. Obviously, most champions have bad matchups, but in most cases, we get to play those champs to optimize their own potential. For Enchantress, the attacker's abilities practically don't matter. Instead, all attackers have a singular mission: intercept her, punish her heavy, and knock her down before she throws that killer damage-reflecting SP1. I don't mind defenders that force you to modify your game loop, but a defender champ that completely throws your game loop out the window and forces you into their own regardless of your attacker isn't fun in my opinion. Bosses are fun specifically because they do this - but they are also very rare battles, intended specifically to change things up for players. I think we're all going to get sick of fighting Enchantress pretty quickly, but we'll be stuck with her in every pvp game mode anyway.
* Her damage prevention/reflection scales with the opponent, not with her, and it is unlimited/uncapped. This means a one-star enchantress could take down a 7-star opponent if she has 5+ spells up. (I'm sure this is the reason they only allow this to apply when she's a defender.) No other champion has such unlimited opponent-based damage potential. For other champs, they either take the damage themselves, like Electro, or they have a cap, like America.
* For people who do grow accustomed to using her, she's going to elbow out many other champs with all her available utility. I suspect we're going to have a growing set of "Enchantress players" that just use Enchantress as much as possible for all of their content, not bothering to learn or grow a roster of other champions. I don't think that will be good for the growth of the game. She'll become the next Hercules.
To be clear, I don't think Enchantress "breaks the game" or anything like that. I just don't like her design.
What happens when you can't do both?
Very few champs will be even partially good options once when she's on a node like Heavy-Hitter, so that it's physically impossible to punish her Heavy attacks without a Slow; or Mighty Charge-2 (Unstoppable and debuff-immune on dash attacks), or one of the many nodes that punishes you for knocking an opponent down...
Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
Let me rephrase what I said then, she has meh damage during 75% of the fight not all of it, however she's still too slow and I will not be using her.
If you like the character fair enough, that's not going to change the fact that she is objectively slow even though long form content is supposed to be her forte.
Even if I hadn't already 100% Necropolis I still wouldn't use her because she's extremely slow as seen I your video. I'd still use any of the other 10 options I have on my roster for any other lanes.
I think people will get used to fighting her pretty quickly and her value will just keep going down.
Her damage is more than enough and she is a total utility powerhouse not to mention heal. She's probably the only champion I don't mind the slow time on because you're always on your feet making sure you don't mess up the spells etc and once you ramp it's just get to the Sp2 while having no care in the world. Unfortunately, She won't shine in anything less than a million HP tho but,
KABAM DID THEIR BIG ONE WITH THIS CHAMPION and I look forward to getting her as a 7*
Considering we got negasonic this year which kabam will most likely justify the trash damage output for "good utility" even tho no one is using her against anything that isn't skill champions it's a good jump. Enchantress has 3x the utility and 5x the damage of negasonic. If kabam keeps this up with the remainder of the 2024 champs I will be very happy. Also we do need fast damage dealers tho enough with the long form content champions please but GREAT JOB WITH ENCHANTRESS
An easy fix could be to move her Abjurative casting from SP1 to SP2. With nodes, her abilities and uncooperative AI, trying to deactivate her spells within 1 bar of power is not easy. Uncooperative AI is more acceptable if we have 2 bars of power to work with as opposed to needing to get in our counters within 1 bar of power. This would also make avoiding pushing her to 2 bars of power another viable strategy.
That might render her defensive menace to be too small, but at the same time, the way it currently is requires too rigid a playstyle and players have to counter it too often. I know people complain about Serpent as a defender, but the Enchantress feels like having to deal with the Serpent's Death Immunity annoyance (getting KO'd by one SP3) the entire fight (getting KO'd by Enchantress's SP1) as opposed to just facing it once.
On defense, she's sick, but also interesting. She's one of the only champs in the game that have a sort of mini-game to her, removing spells before the sp1. It's a great concept from the Kabam team.
But i feel that's she's too AI and node dependent. There are some nodes that you have to TIME your attacks to bypass, but Enchantress on offense is a game of it's own, so you can't counter those kinda nodes. Like I said, "I need a manual for this shi-".
There's a couple of people who've told me she's like a Mystic mid damage Shang-Chi. You can ramp up for 10 minutes and then deal massive damage. They're kinda right in their own way.
To conclude, I have a feeling @AllisonEdits will have something to say about Mommy Enchantress
On offense… I’m starting to get a little annoyed after playing with AND against her at the same time in side quest. I beat the **** out of her and it was largely simple 😒 but why on earth is her abilities as a defender so much different (AND BETTER) than her toolkit as an attacker? Hey… you know who would love to start the quest off with a few random buffs? You know who would benefit a ton from being able to trigger multiple spells at once (SERIOUSLY HOW IS SHE EVEN DOING THAT?) I mean.. come on man! Doing chain lightning AND blizzard at the same time????? Why are you giving me so little to work with as an attacker?
Are fundamentally completely different champions…
Between the signature ability, needing to have NINE SPELLS in order to trigger burst damage, having a damage cap on spells being 12 (again… WHY?), and now I also have to see the defender (who can take zero damage while reflecting it all back) instantly come with 3 buffs WHILE being able to trigger multiple buffs at once just sho she can hold onto the facade of being more sophisticated than she really is… putting it plainly. I would like to see Kabam put a blindfold on and snatch off TWO of those defensive abilities and give it to the attacker and maybe throw in a cooldown for the damage reflection (but not the damage reduction)
I did not even take advantage of the debilitate(or at least I ignored it cos I was too focused intercepting and allat) I received no burst damage only damage I took was from me missing in the beginning and getting hit.
So much easier than the BRB fight
How is she a hard defender again???
I do think she'll be a problem with war nodes(HAZARD SHIFTS ETC) but at the same time EVERY GOOD DEFENDER IS so.. why are we complaining?