Serpent Really Isn’t Getting Rebalanced?

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  • Mirac1eMirac1e Member Posts: 48

    We already have two CCs defending Kabam's decision and quite literally regurgitating the same things Kabam said but in different words lmao it's almost as if they copied the whole paragraph and asked ChatGPT to rewrite it for them 💀

    i skimmed over vega's and andy's vids.

    vega's being practical and teaching the community how to fight serpent now that kabam finalized the decision. we have to do our serpent homework now and no amount of complaining will change that.

    and andy is probably seeing things from his own perspective which is as a top bg player who know all the ins and out of the game. the guys at the top know it all and can do things we can't so from their perspective serpent might not be as rough.
    Im pretty sure the couple of other top bg players will disagree with Andrew's opinion and seems like u only watched the "How to fight serpent video" and not the one he released recently
  • Mirac1eMirac1e Member Posts: 48

    ESF said:

    Emilia90 said:

    Bullseye gets a small tune down and he gets nothing? Bullseye was “oh he’s a little too hard in matchups where the opponent isn’t using a bleed immune” as if serpent doesn’t screw over 99% of champs in the game in any general matchup. Bleed immune champs are everywhere, serpent counters are not. I’m usually on Kabams side but wtf is this?

    When you draft Bullseye and they draft a counter: **** they drafted Bishop/Domino/Sinister/Negasonic/Iceman/Starky/Onslaught/CGR he's going to get nuked.

    When you draft Serpent and they draft a counter: oh they drafted Kushala/Chavez/Sasquatch/CGR/Wiccan/SymSupreme it's still a 55-60 sec fight I don't care I can still beat that score.

    I really don't understand wtf they were thinking here, all the Serpent counters are still so slow you stand no chance.
    This is partially the one that blows my mind. I remember posting that Sinister might be a decent counter for Bullseye, just from reading the kit. I don’t think I ever really complained much about Bullseye and honestly, I don’t ban him in BGs. I usually have some kind of counter available.

    Serpent is wild for all the reasons people have said, but what is most wild is that nothing really works well. The kit is crazy to me because it violates so many longtime established rules for Cosmics, it’s just crazy.

    Immune to Nullify AND Stagger on the Death Immunity, while also having overall immunity to Fate Seal? That is just so wrong for what this game has been, with the Class Wheel.

    Passive Unblockable AND True Focus/No Dex for Specials? WHAT? Why is the Unblockable passive for a kit of the Cosmic class? Passives on the Cosmic class are so rare, why does Serpent get that AND immunity to Fate Seal? That is insane!

    That is the core of my problem with this kit — it’s absolutely a “cheat,” for how this game has always been.

    I honestly cannot believe that the Death Immunity restrictions didn’t get Nerfed. That, to me, is the real garbage with this kit, along with Immunity to Fate Seal. It’s not right to have Death Immunity to avoid Nullify, Stagger and Fate Seal, and everyone should know that, based on what the Class Wheel and traits of each class have been
    Serpent is the only defender in the game where even with the best counters, you have to be extremely good at the game and know what you're doing to even finish the fight in 50 secs with full health (assuming you're using Tigra cause she's the only one that can do that fight in sub 50 as far as I know).

    And yeah it's definitely the death immunity buff that's the problem, he already has a ton of bs in his kit why make him immune to everything mystics have (even neutralize is a gamble) and he gains back so much health and gains power so fast it's just freaking stupid.
    Yes but not against a R3 serpent, she takes like 70+ seconds for a R3 serpent...even with bypassing the death immunity
  • NONYABIZZNONYABIZZ Member Posts: 609 ★★★

    We already have two CCs defending Kabam's decision and quite literally regurgitating the same things Kabam said but in different words lmao it's almost as if they copied the whole paragraph and asked ChatGPT to rewrite it for them 💀

    i skimmed over vega's and andy's vids.

    vega's being practical and teaching the community how to fight serpent now that kabam finalized the decision. we have to do our serpent homework now and no amount of complaining will change that.

    and andy is probably seeing things from his own perspective which is as a top bg player who know all the ins and out of the game. the guys at the top know it all and can do things we can't so from their perspective serpent might not be as rough.
    I don't need Vega to teach me how to kill Serpent in 60 seconds cause I already know how to do that with Chavez and Kushala and guess what, most of the time I lose unless I placed Serpent too. You can get a better score against literally any defender in the game with a good counter, the same can't be said about Serpent.
    Good luck doing that homework for next season with rich get richer though bud! I'm sure you and Vega will have a lot of fun with all the extra power gain for sure!

    90% of the top BGs players who made videos yesterday and today disagree with Andy. Let me spell it out for you, you're all wrong lol not us.
    vega is just working with what we're given and he's showing war examples too, not just BGs and that's a good thing. learning is good.

    andy sees thing from his perspective and everyone's got their own perspective.

    personally i will be banning serp for the next 6 months like everyone else.
    Again, there's nothing to learn here, I have two of the best counters. I just don't like the fact that no matter what I do it's still a 60 sec fight which is a perfectly beatable score because unlike Serpent, every other meta defender in the game has a counter than can nuke them in 40.

    Also, I don't understand why some of you have this view of "oh well we'll work with what we're given", it's because of comments like this one that they've done what they've done with Serpent, and that's just not fair for us. We are quite literally keeping the game alive, this is not how they should be handling things when most people are dissatisfied with something.
    this is what kabam's giving us and they don't listen to our comments when designing targets.

    i'm not shilling for them but we should take the hint that they will come up with hard serpent counters soon and it won't be as bad as it is right now.

    we've bitched about the end of this game for a decade and we've been wrong almost every time. trust that they will come out with counters and this will be nothing in a year.

    let's just hope they don't come out with more serpent defenders soon....
    DLL already said there will never be another Peni Galan situation, I've said this like ten times on this thread already there will be no such thing as a hard counter according to DLL himself. Why do you think Negasonic is a turtle vs Bullseye? Why do you think Patriot is also a turtle vs Photon? Those days are long gone.
    Dazzler better not counter bullseye or any top defender if that's the level of damage we'll be expecting lmao
    Give us the BG attacker we've been asking for all year kabam!!!
  • Mirac1eMirac1e Member Posts: 48
    PT_99 said:

    PT_99 said:

    Well folks I found another champ that can counter Serpent here she is
    https://youtu.be/ZtfKKJrytKQ?feature=shared

    What are you trying to show here?
    Her sp2 attacks literally doing 700-900 damage per hit against 32K Serpant in 2 minutes of time.

    Try to do it with 50-70k Serpant. You'll quit
    @PT_99 her sp2 prevents death immunity
    How you're going to bring a 70k serpant down to 1% with Black widow? 😞
    Not to mention R3 serpent has 380k health and R6 serpent has 300k health in BGs..
  • Mirac1eMirac1e Member Posts: 48

    PT_99 said:

    PT_99 said:

    Well folks I found another champ that can counter Serpent here she is
    https://youtu.be/ZtfKKJrytKQ?feature=shared

    What are you trying to show here?
    Her sp2 attacks literally doing 700-900 damage per hit against 32K Serpant in 2 minutes of time.

    Try to do it with 50-70k Serpant. You'll quit
    @PT_99 her sp2 prevents death immunity
    How you're going to bring a 70k serpant down to 1% with Black widow? 😞
    He doesn't regen so it's possible plus She is not meant for bgs didn't you see I was only using her curse of bleed I could have used the curse of hellfire for damage fight would have been lot quicker plus She was only 6 star rank 4
    Do u know how big the healthpool is in the BGs, R3 serpent has 380k health and R6 serpent has 300k health in BGs.. have fun doing that in 2 mins with a R5 ascended BWCV
  • NONYABIZZNONYABIZZ Member Posts: 609 ★★★
    Mirac1e said:

    Siliyo said:

    I’m saying this out of frustration, but some developers complain and moan about Hercules but have no problems creating a Defensive Hercules (Serpent). If the Kabam Team genuinely thinks Serpent as he is is fine, then it’s one of two things: (1) There are going to be mystic champions in the future that will counter most of the 15+ defensive abilities he has AND be fast enough to do this or (2) we’re genuinely screwed as a community.

    DLL created the Skill equivalent of Hercules (Kate Bishop) in terms of what she can do and I’m sure he’s very proud of her.

    It’s sad, frustrating, a lot of negative emotions.

    DLL once said that he regret's Kate's damage and thanks to the community that no one really cared about Kate at that time for kabam to consider nerfing her
    Bet you he wouldn't be saying that if "PERFECT RELEASE" was this nearly impossible feat to accomplish for 50% of the community and Kate turned out to actually be a "HARD CHAMPION TO MASTER" like tigra. Kate's a problem for the devs because most of the community can easily accomplish what makes her such a great attacker.
    This took time to learn which is the very reason she survived rebalancing. We have serpent who was deemed too powerful as a defender since HIS DEEP DIVE but somehow he's able to survive rebalancing "BUT KATE IS TOOOOO POWERFUL"
  • EakomoEakomo Member Posts: 133
    Mirac1e said:

    Siliyo said:

    I’m saying this out of frustration, but some developers complain and moan about Hercules but have no problems creating a Defensive Hercules (Serpent). If the Kabam Team genuinely thinks Serpent as he is is fine, then it’s one of two things: (1) There are going to be mystic champions in the future that will counter most of the 15+ defensive abilities he has AND be fast enough to do this or (2) we’re genuinely screwed as a community.

    DLL created the Skill equivalent of Hercules (Kate Bishop) in terms of what she can do and I’m sure he’s very proud of her.

    It’s sad, frustrating, a lot of negative emotions.

    DLL once said that he regret's Kate's damage and thanks to the community that no one really cared about Kate at that time for kabam to consider nerfing her
    people cared, not enough to vote her as a titan option, but she was used a lot. with necropolis coming soon it might be they didn't want to immediately nerf an option that was designed just for that.
  • NightheartNightheart Member Posts: 2,114 ★★★★
    Mirac1e said:

    PT_99 said:

    PT_99 said:

    Well folks I found another champ that can counter Serpent here she is
    https://youtu.be/ZtfKKJrytKQ?feature=shared

    What are you trying to show here?
    Her sp2 attacks literally doing 700-900 damage per hit against 32K Serpant in 2 minutes of time.

    Try to do it with 50-70k Serpant. You'll quit
    @PT_99 her sp2 prevents death immunity
    How you're going to bring a 70k serpant down to 1% with Black widow? 😞
    He doesn't regen so it's possible plus She is not meant for bgs didn't you see I was only using her curse of bleed I could have used the curse of hellfire for damage fight would have been lot quicker plus She was only 6 star rank 4
    Do u know how big the healthpool is in the BGs, R3 serpent has 380k health and R6 serpent has 300k health in BGs.. have fun doing that in 2 mins with a R5 ascended BWCV
    She is not meant for BG but other game modes @Mirac1e I wouldn't recommend her in BG you will time out
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,411 ★★★
    NONYABIZZ said:

    NüΚΞ said:

    Bro has immunities to nullify fate seal and stagger. 125% ability rate on immortality so neutralize isn’t guaranteed…. Are we talking about a cosmic champ??????????

    This is actually crazy
    I literally forgot mystics are supposed to be doing the countering not the other way around. Kabam has made it such a regular thing to bypass class relationships that we don't even notice it anymore within the cosmic class
    Maybe with serpent but every other cosmic is still best countered by mystics
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,411 ★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    In addition, I am confused about this part.

    You know when Serpent gains that True Focus, you cannot evade his special attacks with Dexterity?

    Well, here is what they said

    "Hear me out! This combination isn’t quite as scary as it reads. The first hits of the Serpent’s Special 1 and 2 are both melee attacks, meaning that they can be avoided by any Champion even when the Dexterity mastery is disabled. Offensively, take some lessons from Masacre and Hulkbuster to get the most out of the Serpent’s Specials."

    Well this happens.



    So while the part where they said they can be avoided by any Champion is technically true, ff you are too close when he throws it, he's able to tag you simply because dexterity is off. Which means the statement isn't 100% true

    That's only if you're right next to him when he launches it, it's like electro or yellowjackets sp1 where you have to anticipate it and dash back before he launches. If that's legitimately something a player as good as legacy is complaining about then I think he could have made his point without that. I've never been caught by the first hits of his specials
  • altavistaaltavista Member Posts: 1,442 ★★★★


    Serpent is the only defender in the game where even with the best counters, you have to be extremely good at the game and know what you're doing to even finish the fight in 50 secs with full health (assuming you're using Tigra cause she's the only one that can do that fight in sub 50 as far as I know).

    And yeah it's definitely the death immunity buff that's the problem, he already has a ton of bs in his kit why make him immune to everything mystics have (even neutralize is a gamble) and he gains back so much health and gains power so fast it's just freaking stupid.

    It's like they looked at Nick Fury, looked at how difficult it was to properly counter his 2nd life, decided that Dani is the a proper fix, and then said let's repeat this countering problem with Serpent.

    I look forward to Kabam releasing a proper Serpent counter, then have that counter be bugged and not work with the various monthly updates.
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,411 ★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    Emilia90 said:

    We already have two CCs defending Kabam's decision and quite literally regurgitating the same things Kabam said but in different words lmao it's almost as if they copied the whole paragraph and asked ChatGPT to rewrite it for them 💀

    Vega and Andy?
    Yeah, didn't even bother watching the whole thing cause nothing they say will convince me otherwise. Just sad seeing both take massive Ls like this.
    It's probably because both of them have r3 Serpents
    He said most of the videos he's seen today are filled with "dramatic misinformation", and proceeded to show a bunch of 60 sec matches to prove I don't know what. How is that being against it?
    Edit: nvm I see you edited yours.
    Man I typically really like and respect Vega’s takes but the only dramatic misinformation I’ve seen on this today is his video. Completely ignored how easy it is to shut off all the possible Serpent counters except a handful of them with a defensive node, and how counters like Wiccan and Sym Supreme need help from an extra node to be useful, along with a fair amount of luck to not get screwed.

    I think all the unwarranted and toxic attacks about the designer got under his skin, and I can understand why, that stuff was pointless and toxic. Serpent is overtuned, that’s objectively true. He should be nerfed in some meaningful way that keeps him a very hard meta defender, but the cheap stuff in his kit like how he interacts with indestructible boosts or getting power gain so broken at the end that Hyperion gets jealous should be removed. Nothing about the AI not throwing a special is skill based. But none of this means the designer is a bad guy.
    Normally I would agree, and I'm not trying to be toxic here but it's just weird to me. DLL has said he regrets Kate's damage, and says Sable's isn't that bad? To me that just sounds like he himself wanted defenders to be absolutely ridiculous this year and didn't care about attackers. You're free to agree or disagree with me but nothing he's done this year has really wowed me like last year, if anything it's done the complete opposite.
    He pushed for bullseye nerf but does his best to defend Serpent cause he is his champ. He has a big ego. Like how the hell you see Kate damage and say she is fine.
    When did he say he wanted a Bullseye nerf?
    He said it in a live stream that Bullseye might need some nerf. Do you know who else asked for Bullseye nerf, Vega, yes the one who is gaslighting the community rn. He asked for Bullseye nerf but is saying Serpent doesn't need one when clearly he is more harder defender. His hypocrisy knows no bounds.
    Gaslighting being used in this context is insane
  • Mirac1eMirac1e Member Posts: 48

    Mirac1e said:

    PT_99 said:

    PT_99 said:

    Well folks I found another champ that can counter Serpent here she is
    https://youtu.be/ZtfKKJrytKQ?feature=shared

    What are you trying to show here?
    Her sp2 attacks literally doing 700-900 damage per hit against 32K Serpant in 2 minutes of time.

    Try to do it with 50-70k Serpant. You'll quit
    @PT_99 her sp2 prevents death immunity
    How you're going to bring a 70k serpant down to 1% with Black widow? 😞
    He doesn't regen so it's possible plus She is not meant for bgs didn't you see I was only using her curse of bleed I could have used the curse of hellfire for damage fight would have been lot quicker plus She was only 6 star rank 4
    Do u know how big the healthpool is in the BGs, R3 serpent has 380k health and R6 serpent has 300k health in BGs.. have fun doing that in 2 mins with a R5 ascended BWCV
    She is not meant for BG but other game modes @Mirac1e I wouldn't recommend her in BG you will time out
    I know bud, dude has a lot of resistances man, literally sucks your sole while playing against him
  • Mirac1eMirac1e Member Posts: 48
    NONYABIZZ said:

    Mirac1e said:

    Siliyo said:

    I’m saying this out of frustration, but some developers complain and moan about Hercules but have no problems creating a Defensive Hercules (Serpent). If the Kabam Team genuinely thinks Serpent as he is is fine, then it’s one of two things: (1) There are going to be mystic champions in the future that will counter most of the 15+ defensive abilities he has AND be fast enough to do this or (2) we’re genuinely screwed as a community.

    DLL created the Skill equivalent of Hercules (Kate Bishop) in terms of what she can do and I’m sure he’s very proud of her.

    It’s sad, frustrating, a lot of negative emotions.

    DLL once said that he regret's Kate's damage and thanks to the community that no one really cared about Kate at that time for kabam to consider nerfing her
    Bet you he wouldn't be saying that if "PERFECT RELEASE" was this nearly impossible feat to accomplish for 50% of the community and Kate turned out to actually be a "HARD CHAMPION TO MASTER" like tigra. Kate's a problem for the devs because most of the community can easily accomplish what makes her such a great attacker.
    This took time to learn which is the very reason she survived rebalancing. We have serpent who was deemed too powerful as a defender since HIS DEEP DIVE but somehow he's able to survive rebalancing "BUT KATE IS TOOOOO POWERFUL"
    people didnt care much when she came out in the beginning, her value was realised much later, that's why she didnt win the vote for the titan pool
  • Mirac1eMirac1e Member Posts: 48

    EdisonLaw said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    Emilia90 said:

    We already have two CCs defending Kabam's decision and quite literally regurgitating the same things Kabam said but in different words lmao it's almost as if they copied the whole paragraph and asked ChatGPT to rewrite it for them 💀

    Vega and Andy?
    Yeah, didn't even bother watching the whole thing cause nothing they say will convince me otherwise. Just sad seeing both take massive Ls like this.
    It's probably because both of them have r3 Serpents
    He said most of the videos he's seen today are filled with "dramatic misinformation", and proceeded to show a bunch of 60 sec matches to prove I don't know what. How is that being against it?
    Edit: nvm I see you edited yours.
    Man I typically really like and respect Vega’s takes but the only dramatic misinformation I’ve seen on this today is his video. Completely ignored how easy it is to shut off all the possible Serpent counters except a handful of them with a defensive node, and how counters like Wiccan and Sym Supreme need help from an extra node to be useful, along with a fair amount of luck to not get screwed.

    I think all the unwarranted and toxic attacks about the designer got under his skin, and I can understand why, that stuff was pointless and toxic. Serpent is overtuned, that’s objectively true. He should be nerfed in some meaningful way that keeps him a very hard meta defender, but the cheap stuff in his kit like how he interacts with indestructible boosts or getting power gain so broken at the end that Hyperion gets jealous should be removed. Nothing about the AI not throwing a special is skill based. But none of this means the designer is a bad guy.
    Normally I would agree, and I'm not trying to be toxic here but it's just weird to me. DLL has said he regrets Kate's damage, and says Sable's isn't that bad? To me that just sounds like he himself wanted defenders to be absolutely ridiculous this year and didn't care about attackers. You're free to agree or disagree with me but nothing he's done this year has really wowed me like last year, if anything it's done the complete opposite.
    He pushed for bullseye nerf but does his best to defend Serpent cause he is his champ. He has a big ego. Like how the hell you see Kate damage and say she is fine.
    When did he say he wanted a Bullseye nerf?
    He said it in a live stream that Bullseye might need some nerf. Do you know who else asked for Bullseye nerf, Vega, yes the one who is gaslighting the community rn. He asked for Bullseye nerf but is saying Serpent doesn't need one when clearly he is more harder defender. His hypocrisy knows no bounds.
    do u know where vega said that
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,383 ★★★★★
    Mirac1e said:

    PT_99 said:

    ahmynuts said:

    I've literally never turned off a Vega video before his serpent one. As soon as he said there was misinformation being spread with the implication that he was referring to Lagacy. I was gone. He lost me

    Or maybe KT1 video as well
    Both of these legends went nuts for all the right reasons
    I have so much respect for Lagacy, the youngest CCP member besides MSD yet always acts so mature when it comes to the playerbase rather than slandering them, his contents have always been very much pro player
    It’s part of the reason I like his content so much, he’s just a chill dude
  • HarryatomixHarryatomix Member Posts: 298 ★★★
    Shathra won't be a Serpent counter, wow kabam.
  • Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Member Posts: 2,391 ★★★★★

    Shathra won't be a Serpent counter, wow kabam.

    I would’ve been pissed if she was somehow a hard serpent counter but terrible everywhere else. Would’ve felt like cheap monetization to me. She seems like the opposite of that.

    Hopefully this puts to rest all of the “oh serpent is fine because they’re gonna introduce a ton of counters to him” arguments though.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,383 ★★★★★

    Shathra won't be a Serpent counter, wow kabam.

    She can counter him partially, she has atrophy which will reduce duration of Serpent's buffs, but isn't a hard counter.
  • HarryatomixHarryatomix Member Posts: 298 ★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    Shathra won't be a Serpent counter, wow kabam.

    She can counter him partially, she has atrophy which will reduce duration of Serpent's buffs, but isn't a hard counter.
    All her damage is burst damage tho
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,383 ★★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    Shathra won't be a Serpent counter, wow kabam.

    She can counter him partially, she has atrophy which will reduce duration of Serpent's buffs, but isn't a hard counter.
    All her damage is burst damage tho
    that's why I said she isn't a hard counter, but is a counter.
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